We Study Billionaires – RWH065: Joyful Excellence w/ Brad Stulberg
Host: William Green
Guest: Brad Stulberg
Date: January 25, 2026
Overview
This episode of the Richer, Wiser, Happier podcast, hosted by William Green, features a deep conversation with Brad Stulberg, acclaimed author and performance coach. The focus is Stulberg’s latest book, The Way of Excellence: A Guide to True Greatness and Deep Satisfaction in a Chaotic World. The episode explores the philosophy and practical execution of “sustainable excellence” in life and work, drawing on wisdom from ancient traditions, modern psychology, and interviews with top performers across diverse fields—from investors and artists to athletes and entrepreneurs. The conversation is thoughtful, humane, and loaded with actionable insights for anyone aspiring to live a meaningful, high-quality life.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Brad’s Obsession With Excellence
[02:20]
- Excellence is more than an intellectual construct; it’s a deeply felt experience—“a feeling in our bones.”
- As a writer, Brad strives to articulate what “excellence” actually means and how people can cultivate it.
- Pursuit of genuine excellence—not hacks or quick fixes, but mastery and intimacy with a craft—is key to a meaningful life.
- “If you had to ask me, what is my philosophy of life, it would be aspiring toward excellence... you never actually reach it.” – Brad Stulberg [02:46]
The Influence of Robert Pirsig and “Quality”
[05:09]
- Robert Pirsig, author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, deeply influenced Stulberg’s thinking.
- Pirsig’s notion of “quality”—the merging of person and action—is foundational to Brad’s concept of excellence.
- “The real cycle you're working on is a cycle called yourself... The machine that appears to be out there and the person that appears to be in here are not two separate things. They grow toward quality or fall away from quality together.” – Pirsig (quoted by William Green) [07:35]
- Quality is seen as the antidote to contemporary alienation (individual, cultural, existential).
- Modern malaise comes from a disconnect (alienation) from our work, each other, and ourselves.
- Opposite of alienation is “quality”—intimacy and presence with what you are doing.
Excellence in Practice: Concrete Accomplishments & Pre-Intellectual Knowing
[13:00], [15:03]
- Concrete skill and tangible feedback (e.g., telling a joke, lifting a weight, writing a page) are sources of deep satisfaction.
- Jerry Seinfeld: The unique joy of mastering a skill and seeing concrete results.
- Stulberg: Essential to have at least one domain in life where progress is tangible.
- There is an innate, almost “pre-intellectual” ability to recognize excellence—across domains (art, business, investing, etc.).
- We’re drawn to beauty, quality, and integrity instinctively (“you feel it in your heart”).
- “When we see excellence, we know it.” – Brad Stulberg [16:34]
- This drive for quality and excellence is evolutionarily intrinsic, related to our ability to sense and move toward what enables flourishing.
Defining Excellence & The Role of Vulnerability
[20:17]
- Stulberg’s Definition: “Excellence is involved engagement. It’s caring deeply about something worthwhile that aligns with your values and goals.”
- There must be deep commitment and a sense of personal ownership.
- Pursuing what you value—not what others value—creates true excellence.
- Caring deeply requires vulnerability—a willingness to fail without excuses.
- “To care deeply requires guts and it requires vulnerability, because there's no self-handicapping.” – Brad Stulberg [22:16]
The Modern Barriers: Distraction & Pseudo-Excellence
[24:12]
- Ubiquitous digital distraction, engineered for maximum engagement, makes intimacy with self and craft increasingly difficult.
- Stulberg’s story of being unable to find a moment of quiet even at a gas pump [24:40].
- “We are constantly bombarded with distraction and noise, which really gets in the way of intimacy…” – Brad Stulberg
- "Pseudo-excellence": The proliferation of life hacks, shortcuts, and hustle culture undermines real mastery and intimate engagement.
- True excellence requires patience, dedication, and non-negotiable boundaries.
Intentional Disconnection and Minimalism in Excellence
[32:10]
- Great performers intentionally design their environments to minimize distractions and maximize value-driven focus.
- “If you want to be a maximalist, you have to be a minimalist.” – Mike Joyner (quoted) [34:14]
- The best are “focused, determined, a little bit crazy at times, obsessive, and live mundane lifestyles that most people would find boring.” [34:46]
- Excellence typically involves saying “no” to most things and focusing deeply on a few.
The Spiritual Dimension: Love, Intimacy, and Non-Separation
[36:44], [39:20]
- Excellence is akin to love: an experience of deep, sustained care, commitment, and presence.
- “Excellence is a lot like love, because what is caring deeply in repeated practice, in commitment… if not love?” – Brad Stulberg [36:44]
- Buffett’s “lovingly built” Berkshire Hathaway as an example of excellence-as-love [39:20]
- This idea recurs in ancient wisdom (Greek “arete”, Chinese “wu wei”, Buddhism’s “right effort”)—excellence as caring, soulful engagement.
Building an Excellent Life: Practical Foundations
[42:14]
- True success = alignment with your core values.
- Exercise:
- Identify 2–5 core values by listing, grouping, and refining.
- Define what each value means in your life.
- Design behaviors and boundaries using those values as a litmus test. [43:25]
- Minimum Effective Dose: In seasons where one area dominates (work, family, etc.), keep “maintenance doses” in other identity rooms to avoid neglecting important aspects of life [51:49].
Balancing Obsession and Sustainable Performance
[54:34]
- Two types of obsession:
- Reckless obsession: Compulsion, loss of control, negative long-term outcomes.
- Healthy obsession: Intense focus but within your control; you can step away when needed.
- “Do you control your obsession, or does your obsession control you?” – Brad Stulberg [54:34]
- The importance of building in rest and renewal—not as an afterthought, but as a fundamental part of sustained excellence.
- Walks, time off, and other practices enhance creativity and performance. [57:33]
- “Rest is not separate from the work. It is an integral part of the work.” – Brad Stulberg [57:57]
Consistency, Small Steps, and Compounding
[67:41]
- Sustainable excellence is built on day-to-day consistency.
- “Little by little becomes a lot. You just constantly chip away. And the day to day work can seem mundane... but the compounding effect gets you to something huge.” – Brad Stulberg [67:41]
- On bad days, maintaining basic habits and not regressing is more important than maximizing good days.
- Investors and performers alike win through consistency, not heroic bursts.
Self-Kindness and Fierce Discipline
[74:51]
- The best high performers combine fierce self-discipline with fierce self-kindness.
- There’s no lasting excellence without self-compassion—self-judgment and shame are counterproductive.
- “Fierce self discipline benefits from fierce self kindness.” – Brad Stulberg [74:51]
Focusing on the Main Thing: Process, Routines, and Rituals
[78:04], [82:01]
- Excellence requires a process mindset: breaking grand goals into micro-steps and focusing on the fundamentals.
- Avoid “majoring in the minors” (getting lost in hacks, warmups, superficialities).
- Brad’s practical routine (“three by three”):
- Daily: 1–1.5 hours focused work; at least 45 minutes of movement; don’t fight evening sleepiness (sleep when tired).
- Weekly: 12–24 hour “digital Sabbath”; one long creative walk; planned social engagement.
- Monthly: Spiritual reconnection; community engagement; extended time in nature.
- “Your routine shouldn’t stress you out. Your routine should work for you.” – Brad Stulberg [82:01]
Deep Work and Physical Space
[85:37], [89:27]
- Take inspiration from Cal Newport’s concept of Deep Work, but extend it to deep living—designing your environment and habits for deep connection in all life areas.
- Structure your workspace with objects (“artifacts”) that inspire quality and value-driven focus; remove digital distractions as much as possible.
The Role of Joy and Celebration
[92:43], [95:29]
- Joy is essential to sustainable excellence. Losing joy is a key warning sign of misalignment.
- “If it’s not fun, you’re not going to last and you’re not going to perform your best.” – Brad Stulberg
- Intensity and joy are not mutually exclusive.
- Completion rituals (e.g., team dinners, celebrations) foster perspective, gratitude, and sustained motivation on the “never-ending path” of mastery.
The Ultimate Goal: Becoming Kinder, Stronger, Wiser
[98:47]
- Pursuing excellence is ultimately a spiritual quest—about becoming not only stronger, but kinder and wiser.
- “If we're not working towards those qualities, those more intrinsic characteristics, then what's the point of it all?” – Brad Stulberg [98:47]
- The best role model? George Saunders: master craftsperson, humble, kind, high performer. [100:08]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Excellence as a Feeling:
“Excellence is a feeling. It's not something that is intellectual. It's something that we know in our bones.” – Brad Stulberg [02:46] -
On Quality and Alienation:
“If alienation is a sense of remove and distance, the opposite of alienation is quality, a sense of intimacy with what one is doing.” – Brad Stulberg [06:44] -
On Commitment and Vulnerability:
“To care deeply requires guts and it requires vulnerability, because there's no self-handicapping… a precondition to excellence.” – Brad Stulberg [22:16] -
On Minimalism and Saying No:
“If you want to be a maximalist, you have to be a minimalist.” – Mike Joyner (quoted by Brad) [34:14] -
On the Importance of Love:
“Excellence is a lot like love, because what is caring deeply… if not love?... Quality is love.” – Brad Stulberg [36:44] -
On Consistency:
“There's no negotiation. You show up and you get what you have to get out of yourself on the day… Then you rinse and repeat for a decade, and you're going to be great.” – Brad Stulberg [71:16] -
On Self-Discipline and Compassion:
“The only way you're going to be able to sustain that level of self discipline is by also learning to be kind to yourself and have your own back.” – Brad Stulberg [75:36] -
On Joy and Work:
“The totality of the pursuit should be full of joy. If it's not fun, you're not gonna last and you're not gonna perform your best.” – Brad Stulberg [92:43] -
On the Deeper Goal:
“The point of it all is to try to love deeply and make a contribution. And… you can't help but become stronger, kinder and wiser.” – Brad Stulberg [98:47]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 02:20 – Brad’s definition and obsession with excellence
- 05:09 – The influence of Pirsig & concept of “quality”
- 13:00 – Importance of tangible, concrete work
- 16:34 – The innate, “pre-intellectual” recognition of excellence
- 20:17 – How great performers define and embody excellence
- 24:12 – Modern barriers: Distraction and “pseudo-excellence”
- 32:10 – Designing an environment for excellence/minimalism
- 34:14 – The necessity of saying no; the minimalist-maximalist paradox
- 36:44 – Excellence as intimacy and love
- 42:14 – Practical ways to clarify and live your values
- 51:49 – The “minimum effective dose” approach to maintaining multiple life roles
- 54:34 – The difference between healthy and reckless obsession
- 57:33 – The necessity of structured rest and renewal
- 67:41 – Consistency, compounding, and handling bad days
- 74:51 – Combining fierce self-discipline and self-kindness
- 78:04 – Focusing on the main thing; process thinking in practice
- 82:01 – Brad’s three-by-three daily, weekly, and monthly routines
- 85:37 – Deep work and the design of physical space
- 92:43 – Importance of joy and celebration
- 98:47 – The spiritual dimension: stronger, kinder, wiser as the purpose of excellence
Final Reflections
Stulberg’s philosophy is both practical and profound—a reminder that excellence is not a grind for ego or achievement alone, but a means of discovering love, connection, joy, and purpose in our actions and character. Sustained excellence is less about talent and more about finding and focusing on what truly matters, building rituals that support your aims, caring deeply, balancing discipline with compassion, and never losing sight of the inherent joy in meaningful pursuit.
Recommended Next Steps:
- Identify and define your 2–5 core values.
- Audit your time and environment for alignment.
- Structure your day, week, and month with simple, meaningful rituals that serve your main goals.
- Focus on the fundamentals. Let go of the “bollocks.”
- Celebrate progress and remain intentionally connected to the joy, love, and community found in your work.
“If you go about what you're doing with care and intention and you make yourself vulnerable in the process, you can't help but become stronger, kinder and wiser.”
— Brad Stulberg [98:47]