We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network
Episode: TIP771 – Money Masters Of Our Time w/ Kyle Grieve
Date: November 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Kyle Grieve delves into John Train’s classic book, “Money Masters of Our Time,” distilling the wisdom, strategies, and principles of legendary investors. Rather than focusing solely on investor biographies, Kyle draws out recurring themes and actionable lessons, showing how different approaches can coexist and what timeless rules exist regardless of style. The goal is to equip listeners with practical insights that can adapt to any intelligent investing framework.

Key players discussed include:

• Warren Buffett
• T. Rowe Price
• John Templeton
• Richard Rainwater
• Paul Cabot
• Philip Fisher
• Benjamin Graham
• Mark Lightbound
• John Neff
• Julian Robertson
• Jim Rogers
• George Soros
• Philip Carret
• Michael Steinhardt
• Ralph Wanger
• Robert Wilson
• Peter Lynch

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Three Philosophies of Investing (02:20):

John Train identifies three investing schools:

• Futurology: Peering into the fog further than the crowd.
• Laboratory Analysis: Examining companies more carefully/imaginatively than others.
• Discovering the Overlooked: Opening new categories in neglected areas.

Quote [03:05]:
Trane said, "Which method you prefer should depend on how you think and what's not overpopulated at the moment. Thus, the outstanding investor knows when to change styles. That's the point of my epigraph: ‘Times change and we change in them.’”

2. T. Rowe Price: Growth, Discipline, and Adaptability (04:11)

• Discipline and Conviction:
  Price structured buys and sells ahead of time—sticking to his plan even when conditions changed.
• Modesty:
  Despite stellar returns (turning $1,000 into $271,000 from 1934–1972 at 16% CAGR), he saw himself as non-prodigious.
• Key Attributes for Growth Investing:
  • Superior R&D
  • Lack of intense competition
  • Low regulatory exposure
  • Well-paid but low total labor costs

  • 10% return on invested capital

  • Stick with companies in high-growth industries until growth stalls
• Avoiding Over-Capacity:
  Recognized dangers when too much capital enters hot sectors.
• Strategy Evolution:
  Shifted from growth stocks to inflation-resistant assets (real estate, gold) when markets overheated, then reverted once growth stocks became attractively priced.
• Contrarian Takeaway:
  Discipline and adaptability are crucial.

3. Warren Buffett: Controlled Greed and the Secret Sauce (09:30)

• “Controlled Greed and Fascination”:
  “You must be animated by controlled greed and fascinated by the investing process.” – John Train
  Controlled greed fuels ambition; fascination with the process sustains the work ethic.

• Cautionary Tale: Rick Guerin (12:10):
  Buffett said: “Rick was as smart as us, but he was in a hurry … he got margin called and had to sell his Berkshire Hathaway stock at under $40 a piece … As of November 2025, those shares are worth $756,000.”

• Unique Success Ingredients:

  1. Extensive training under top investors
  2. Genius
  3. Intellectual honesty
  4. Avoiding distractions
  5. Early start (began investing at 11)

4. John Templeton: Contrarian Deep Value (16:45)

• Looking for Unloved Stocks:
  • Small cap, international, and neglected stocks offered biggest price inefficiencies.
• Bookstore Analogy (17:30):
  Prefers the musty, basement books nobody wants, not the bestsellers on display.
• Finding Unloved Stocks:
  • Zero institutional ownership
  • IR reps say “no one’s called in years”

5. Richard Rainwater: Activist, Top-Down Investing (20:55)

• Investment Process:

  1. Target a distressed industry due for change
  2. Find attractive companies
  3. Seek sustainable competitive advantages (impregnable franchises)
  4. Bring in world-class managers if necessary
  5. Avoid solo investments; use alliances
  6. Use financial engineering to enhance risk/reward

• Case Study: Disney (22:44):
  Bought Arvida, swapped for 10% stake in Disney, installed Michael Eisner as CEO.

6. Paul Cabot: Seeking the Truth and the Role of Experience (25:01)

• Relentless Fact-Finding:
  “First, you’ve got to get all the facts, and then you’ve got to face the facts, not pipe dreams.”
• Value of Tenure:
  Trusted older, battle-hardened investors.
• Morality vs. Investment (28:35):
  Owned liquor stocks legally, responded to critics, “If you want to assert a moral principle beyond the legal one, just sell the fund.”

7. Philip Fisher: Long-Term, Quality Focus (32:08)

• Buy for the Long Haul:
  • Hold outstanding businesses, not just good investments.
• Criteria:
  • Businesses growing intrinsic value
  • Don’t sell just because price rises
  • Prefer reinvestment over dividends (compounding engines)
  • Look for positive perception + multiple expansion
• Buying Opportunities:
  1. During CapEx/upgrade cycles (Dino Polska example, 36:51)
  2. On bad news (Meta’s Metaverse spending, 38:45)
  3. When fixable inefficiencies exist (ADF Group, 39:56)

8. Benjamin Graham: Value, Turnover, and Sell Discipline (41:50)

• Sell Rules:
  1. Sell after a 50% gain
  2. Sell after 2 years if gains unmet
  3. Sell if dividend is omitted

Notable difference from “buy and hold” strategies—works better for deep value, cigar-butt investing.

9. Mark Lightbound: Emerging Market Stock-Picking (43:52)

• Cashflow Focused Approach:
  1. Traditional: Net profits + D&A – maintenance CapEx
  2. Advanced: OP income + D&A – CapEx for expected growth
  3. Look for what the business can sell for above cost
• Emphasized big-picture thinking and trusted networks for management due diligence.

10. John Neff: Value With Income (46:47)

• Sought misunderstood, slow-growers with high dividends over “growth glamour.”
• Contrast with T. Rowe Price:
  Preferred certainty (dividends + modest growth) over pure reinvestment
• Criteria:
  Good balance sheet, ROE, management, growth prospects, attractive products and market.

11. Julian Robertson: Hedge Fund Long/Short and the Asset Size Trap (50:09)

• Paired long and short positions (e.g., long Walmart, short weaker retailers).
• Warning:
  As funds grow, small-cap alpha disappears; asset size can kill a once-nimble strategy.

12. Jim Rogers: Basket Bets and On-the-Ground Research (52:30)

• Country Selection Criteria:
  1. Country doing better now than before
  2. Better than generally perceived
  3. Convertible currency
  4. Market liquidity
• Eschewed business school:
  “Study history and philosophy, do anything but go to business school, wait on tables, hitchhike in the Far East.”
• Travel and Real-World Observation:
  Investing insights came from travel and immersion, not theory.

13. George Soros: Speculation, Networks, and Fallibility (57:17)

• Not an economic theory guy—success partly from elite political access.
• Principles:
  1. Start small, increase if right.
  2. Markets are “dumb”; you need only understand more than others.
  3. Edge comes from constantly questioning your own beliefs.
• Caveat:
  “If Soros gave me advice, he may have been completely correct, but I would have no way of verifying it because I didn’t have the ability to…call up the Secretary of State and ask their opinion on a geopolitically essential event.”

14. Philip Carret: Facts Over Advice and the Discipline to Hold Winners (01:00:39)

• Precepts:
  • Reappraise every holding twice a year.
  • Quick to take losses, slow to take profits.
  • Diligently seek facts; avoid unsolicited advice.

15. Michael Steinhardt: Information Edge & Trading Infrastructure (01:03:41)

• Information Arbitrage:
  Built relationships with top brokers for early info.
• High turnover—portfolio would flip every month or two.
• Key lesson:
  Edge sometimes relies on infrastructure, incentives (e.g., commissions), and operational fit.

16. Ralph Wanger: Small Cap Value and the Zebra Herd Metaphor (01:07:11)

• Metaphor:
  Institutional investors are like zebras; the safest stay in the middle, but real gains are made on the risky, nutritious outside. “We have tried to be outside zebras most of the time and there are plenty of claw marks on us.”
• Tripod Investing:
  • Growth potential
  • Financial strength
  • Fundamental value
• Small caps have outperformed large caps over decades (12.5% vs. 10.5% avg returns, 1925–1995).
• Tech investing twist:
  “Don't invest in the tech stock itself, but the business that will improve by using the technology.”

17. Robert Wilson: The Short Seller’s Playbook & Risks (01:10:55)

• Key reasons for shorting:
  Grim outlook, outdated plants, bad management, tough competition, rising costs, regulatory problems.
• Critical warning:
  “Don’t worry about a healthy company’s competition… It’s better to sell a winning stock too late than too soon.”

18. Peter Lynch: Why So Many Trades? (01:13:32)

• Maintained 15,000 trades in 14 years—recognized only a handful of big winners matter, but made smaller, systematic bets across an industry, constantly reallocating as new data emerged.
• Market Maker Approach:
  Buy the field, then narrow exposure as knowledge improves.
• Competitor Tracking:
  Maintains lists of peers via earnings calls, Seeking Alpha, Yahoo Finance, and Google searches.
• Multi-baggers success:
  Didn’t need all-stars; focused on finding several companies that could double, 5x, or 10x.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On controlled greed:
  “You must be animated by controlled greed and fascinated by the investing process.” (Buffett via Train, 09:41)
• On urgency and leverage:
  “Rick was … in a hurry. … In the '73–'74 downturn, Rick was levered with margin loans and … had to sell his Berkshire Hathaway stock to me … at under $40 per share.” (Buffett, 12:10)
• On the herd mentality:
  “As long as he continues to buy popular stocks, he can’t be faulted. … It doesn’t matter a lot to me what happens to Johnson & Johnson as long as everyone has it and we all go down together.” (Ralph Wanger paraphrasing a PM, 01:07:26)
• On advice vs. facts:
  “Advice, unfortunately, is exposed to a lot of bias. Facts are the truth of the matter.” (Carret, 01:01:55)
• On “selling too soon” risk:
  “It's better to sell a winning stock too late than too soon.” (Robert Wilson, 01:13:09)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | | --------- | --------------------------------------------------- | | 02:09 | Framing of the episode & Train’s core methodologies | | 04:11 | T. Rowe Price: growth investing mindset | | 09:30 | Warren Buffett: controlled greed, Rick Guerin story | | 16:45 | John Templeton: value hunting, unloved stocks | | 20:55 | Richard Rainwater: activist/top-down strategies | | 25:01 | Paul Cabot: fact-finding, role of age & experience | | 32:08 | Philip Fisher: quality, long-term investments | | 41:50 | Benjamin Graham: sell criteria | | 43:52 | Mark Lightbound: emerging markets and cash flow | | 46:47 | John Neff: value with income | | 50:09 | Julian Robertson: long/short, asset size problems | | 52:30 | Jim Rogers: country selection, travel insights | | 57:17 | George Soros: speculation, edge comes from doubt | | 01:00:39 | Philip Carret: periodic reappraisal, loss aversion | | 01:03:41 | Michael Steinhardt: broker relationships, turnover | | 01:07:11 | Ralph Wanger: small caps, zebra metaphor | | 01:10:55 | Robert Wilson: short seller approach | | 01:13:32 | Peter Lynch: high turnover, market maker logic |

Final Takeaways

• There is no single correct path to investing success—discipline, self-awareness, adaptability, and a relentless pursuit of truth unify the greatest styles.
• Whether you're a contrarian, growth investor, deep value hunter, trader, or even a macro speculator, there are insights that can apply to your framework.
• “Controlled greed,” honest self-assessment, and learning from the mistakes of others are powerful recurring concepts among the legends.
• Edge can come from networks, information, temperament, or simple time in the market—figure out how to play your own game.

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