We Study Billionaires - TIP790: Wealth Beyond Money w/ Thomas Borgia Moeller
Episode Overview
In this episode, Stig Brodersen sits down with Thomas Borgia Moeller, the Global Co-Head of Real Estate and Global CIO for Value Add Real Estate at BlackRock. Steering $25 billion within BlackRock’s real estate portfolio, Thomas brings insights not only from his professional vantage but from a deeply personal and philosophical journey. The conversation moves beyond the mechanics of real estate investing to cover the interplay of money, values, happiness, and the art of living a meaningful life. This is an episode rich with stories, wisdom, and specific strategies for enriching both investment acumen and personal fulfillment.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Structure and Reality of Global Real Estate Investing
- Thomas’s Role at BlackRock (03:03)
- Co-manages $25 billion with Paul Tebbit, covering a quarter of BlackRock's $100 billion real estate book.
- Typical Day: Begins with international calls, coordination with top-level investors and leadership, asset site visits, and investor meetings spanning multiple continents, often on little sleep and much travel.
“At 2am I was chairing an investment committee for an Asia deal…then by 2pm I’m back on a flight to New York... reading an investment paper coming to the committee that I chair…”
—Thomas Borgia Moeller (04:05)
2. The Importance of Travel and Personal Presence
- Physical Presence vs. Virtual Relationships (06:48)
- Physical site visits and face-to-face meetings are core to building trust with investors and partners. Despite the digital age, partnership is rooted in in-person energy transfer.
“It means building relationships and working together. To a common goal. And that I think requires physical presence so that the energy actually flows.”
—Thomas (07:36)
3. The Challenge of Fundraising at Scale
- How to Raise Billions—From Scratch (18:23)
- Success is driven by systematic outreach and global matchmaking between investor needs and fund strategy.
- Raising €2 billion might require engagement with 200 prospects, given typical conversion rates.
“If we’re raising say $2 billion for the next European value add fund and... our average ticket size is 50 million, you need 40 investors... conversion rate is 20% so you need a funnel of 200 prospects.”
—Thomas (19:03)
4. Building Trust and Long-Term Partnerships
- Process from First Meeting to Investment (09:37)
- Deep due diligence, numerous meetings, and authentic relationship building—sometimes spanning years—is the hallmark of serious private market fundraising.
- “Serotonin” (positive, optimistic temperament) is essential for handling rejection and persistent campaigning.
5. Defining Personal Identity Beyond Titles
- Thomas’s Story—An Entrepreneurial Spirit (11:31)
- Shared the formative story of selling drinks to stranded motorists at age 10, emblematic of opportunity recognition and execution—traits that underpin his approach today.
- “Hunger for deal-making... building a business... probably characterizes me best.”
(13:05)
6. Language, Persona & Communication
- Impact of Multilingualism and Cultural Contexts (15:32)
- Navigating between Swiss German, High German, and English; how language impacts personal and business personas.
7. The Mechanics of High Finance
- Investment Committees at BlackRock (26:23)
- How deals are evaluated in high-stakes rooms, with autonomous voting and the designated role of “devil’s advocate” to prevent groupthink.
- Behavioral science and independence are built into the process.
“Now the committee votes autonomously... what that does is protect people and allow them to dissent. It improves the process and is better governance.”
—Thomas (27:26)
8. Macro Risks and Real Estate Strategy
- How Public Debt Levels Affect Real Estate Yield (29:21)
- Real estate yields (cap rates) are driven by real—not nominal—interest rates.
- Preference for countries with lower public debt, like Sweden and Germany, to benefit from potential cap rate compression.
“If we want to participate in that potential upside... we probably need to look to countries that have lower levels of indebtedness.”
—Thomas (31:10)
9. Meritocracy and Advancement in Large Organizations
- Talent, Drive, IQ & EQ (34:18)
- Advancement is measured by investment performance, continuous improvement, intrinsic motivation, emotional intelligence (EQ), and teamwork.
- The ability to self-regulate—inspired by meditation and even in defiance of Daniel Kahneman’s skepticism—is a key to personal and professional growth.
10. Wealth, Values, Community
- Learning from the Value Investing Community (37:22)
- Profound influence of William Green and the value investing community on Thomas’s investing philosophy.
- How finance can—and should—be a values-driven pursuit.
“What a lot of these investors have in common is temperament and values... that they come to investing from a deeply purpose and value-based foundation.”
—Thomas (41:01)
11. Contrasts in Financial Culture: Omaha vs. LA
- Ethical Seriousness vs. Pure Profit Focus (42:19)
- Experiencing the shift from values-driven investing in Omaha (Berkshire AGM) to a more profit-focused atmosphere at the Milken Institute—highlighting distinct industry subcultures.
12. Quality People, Trust, and Energy Transfer
- How to Recognize and Click with High-Quality Individuals (44:31, 47:26)
- Talent + ethical seriousness + humility = high-quality person.
- Building relationships is rooted in values, depth, and an intangible but palpable energy transfer.
“When we recruit for the team... talent, drive, teamwork and humility.”
—Thomas (45:34)
13. Flow State, Meditation, and Self-Management
- Habits and Rituals for Peak Performance (54:28)
- Sleep, exercise, meditation, and relational time are crucial. Meditation creates “spaciousness,” which enables flow states—moments of deep creativity and productivity.
- Strategies for maintaining flow and peak state during extensive travel.
“When I have this sense of spaciousness, I think I can do great things. That is my version of flow state.”
—Thomas (55:12)
14. Opportunity Cost in Reading and Continuous Learning
- Balancing Learning with Enjoyment (80:39)
- Deliberate about when to read slowly for creativity vs. when to maximize learning by listening to audiobooks at increased speed.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Energy Transfer and Click:
“It’s that combination of values... but when it clicks or two minds meet... Something is happening energetically.”
—Thomas (49:26) -
On Kindness vs. Honesty:
“Honesty for me is easier… kindness is much more complex... that’s almost like a hierarchy, that kindness trumps honesty if it serves kindness.”
—Thomas (72:31) -
On the "White Knight" Complex:
“It’s this almost compulsive need to do the right thing, to take the high road... but the main word is the compulsive nature of it… as much as she loves me, it’s also super annoying.”
—Thomas (75:15) -
On Learning from Diverse Sources:
“One has to be open... to learning from unexpected sources... on the sidewalk or from the mastermind community. I did not expect it to impact my career and make me a better investor.”
—Thomas (68:21)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [03:03] – Thomas breaks down his dual role and a typical day
- [06:48] – On the necessity and philosophy of travel and presence
- [09:37] – The private market fundraising process and relationship building
- [11:31] – Personal anecdote: Early entrepreneurial spirit
- [18:23] – How to systematically raise billions in capital
- [26:23] – Investment committees, autonomous voting, and behavioral science
- [29:21] – How macro trends and public debt impact real estate investment
- [34:18] – How advancement and meritocracy are measured at BlackRock
- [37:22] – Lessons learned from William Green and the value investing community
- [42:19] – The cultural contrast: Omaha vs. LA investment scenes
- [45:34] – Recognizing quality in people and the role of teamwork/humility
- [54:28] – Rituals for flow state and the importance of meditation
- [72:31] – Navigating the gray area of kindness and honesty
- [75:15] – "White knight" complex and striving for the ethical “third way”
- [80:39] – Book recommendations and thoughts on reading strategy
Book Recommendations
- Politics on the Edge by Rory Stewart – Insightful political memoir
- 21 Letters on Life and Its Challenges by Charles Handy – Gentle and profound life wisdom
- Margin of Safety by Seth Klarman – Seminal value investing text, rare and prized
Final Thoughts
Throughout the episode, Thomas and Stig explore not only the investment strategies that define billion-dollar decisions, but the inner drivers—values, temperament, energy, honesty, and kindness—that define a rich life beyond money. Whether discussing high finance or meditation, the conversation is anchored by a deep reverence for personal growth, humility, and the unique “energy transfer” that makes relationships, and by extension decisions, truly meaningful.
“What am I optimizing for?”
—Stig Brodersen (47:26)
If you’re interested in not just how money is made but how wealth is lived, this episode is a masterclass.