Podcast
We Want Them Infected Podcast
Hosted by Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent · EN
Our podcast delves deep into the dark side of the COVID-19 pandemic, revealing how influential doctors shaped the narrative.
📖 A Movement in the Making: "We Want Them Infected" isn't just a book; it's a call to action, exposing how the anti-vaccine movement infiltrated mainstream culture.
Join us on this journey of discovering the impact of misinformation on public health, trust in science, and more.
25episodes
Episodes
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Bill Cassidy, Marty Makary, Vinay Prasad, Tracy Hoeg: The FDA Implosion and the End of MAHA's Pandemic Influencers
3d ago01:32:00Tap to summarizeJonathan Howard and Wendy Orent call this week their "Red Wedding": within days, FDA Commissioner Marty Makary resigned, Vinay Prasad was pushed out of CBER, Tracy Beth Hoeg was fired, and Senator Bill Cassidy lost his Louisiana primary. The hosts argue this is not a tragedy but a long-foretold collapse — a group of physicians who built careers as COVID-era contrarian podcasters discovering that running a regulatory agency is fundamentally different from posting about one. Howard works through the wreckage: Makary's reported approval of flavored nicotine products days before his ouster, the FDA's treatment of the rare disease community, the leaked memo claiming pediatric COVID vaccine deaths that career staff refused to sign off on, and the broader pattern of "regulatory whiplash" that drove the agency into dysfunction. The episode then turns to who is still standing — Jay Bhattacharya at NIH, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at HHS — and what Kennedy is reportedly doing to vaccines from behind the scenes via Martin Kulldorff's review effort. Throughout, the hosts return to a single thesis: the skills that made Makary, Prasad, Hoeg, and Cassidy famous during COVID — opinion, tweeting, posturing — do not translate into running institutions, and the medical commentators who vouched for them (John Mandrola, Adam Cifu) have lost any remaining credibility. Key Topics Discussed Bill Cassidy's primary loss and the cost of the Kennedy confirmation vote Cassidy's earlier vote to convict Trump after January 6 followed by his decisive vote advancing RFK Jr. as HHS Secretary. Howard and Orent's view that Cassidy's promise to "keep Kennedy in line" was hollow from the start. What Cassidy's defeat signals about Trump's grip on the Republican base in Louisiana — and the hosts' read that his lame-duck status may give him cover to block the next round of HHS nominees. Marty Makary's resignation and the "worst FDA Commissioner in 25 years" framing The Stat News piece characterizing Makary's tenure, and the reporting that flavored nicotine was the precipitating issue with Trump's tobacco-industry donors. Howard's counterpoint: Makary reportedly approved a batch of electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) on May 5, 2026 — the weekend before he resigned — undercutting the "principled stand" narrative. The pattern of selfie videos, public-facing performance, and what former FDA staff describe as hostile management of career scientists. Makary's pre-FDA record: the "medical error is the third leading cause of death" claim, Omicron as "nature's vaccine," "Omicold," herd immunity calls in May 2021, and the Nazi-bioweapon Lyme disease theory amplification. Vinay Prasad, regulatory whiplash, and the rare disease community How Prasad's stated preference for randomized controlled trials translated into rejection of rare disease therapies — and the disconnect between calling for RCTs on Twitter and the practical impossibility of running them for small patient populations. Right-to-try advocates, the libertarian wing of MAHA (Senator Ron Johnson), and why they turned on Prasad. Howard's point: Pfizer's halted COVID vaccine RCT in 50–65-year-olds is the case study — the trials Prasad demanded couldn't actually be enrolled. Tracy Beth Hoeg, the leaked pediatric deaths memo, and the Maryanne Demasi interview Hoeg's insistence she was fired, not resigned, and her interview with Brownstone Institute–adjacent journalist Maryanne Demasi. Her claim that the chaos at the FDA was "created by the media" rather than real. The memo alleging 10 pediatric deaths from the COVID vaccine that career FDA staff would not sign off on — and Howard's contrast with the J&J/thrombosis response, where nine deaths produced immediate, transparent action. Hoeg's role in the Denmark-style vaccine schedule rollback memo alongside Makary. The Makary–Prasad ZDoggMD clip on FDA "vindictiveness" — and the irony Audio pulled from a pre-appointment Prasad/Makary appearance describing the FDA as "erratic," "capricious," and politically pressured. Howard's read: every criticism they leveled at the Biden-era FDA describes their own tenure — political pressure from Trump, demoted career staff, inconsistent standards. The Peter Marks / Marion Gruber / Phil Krause booster episode reframed in light of what followed. John Mandrola, Adam Cifu, and the cost of vouching Mandrola's "Can We Give the New FDA's Leadership a Chance?" piece a year earlier — and the line about Prasad and Makary inducing companies to run proper RCTs, set against Pfizer's halted trial. Howard's account of an email exchange with Cifu following Cifu's visit to NYU — Howard's offer of a serious content-level conversation, and Cifu's decline. The broader "medical conservatives" project and what the hosts argue has happened to its credibility. Jay Bhattacharya, NIH, and the resignation letter from departing staff The letter from a senior NIH scientist on Bhattacharya's leadership — political termination of grants, deals institutions are making to recover funding, and Bhattacharya's silence. Howard and Orent's read on Bhattacharya's visible deterioration and his retreat into Great Barrington nostalgia. Kennedy's behind-the-scenes vaccine review and Martin Kulldorff The New York Times reporting (Christina Jewett and Sheryl Gay Stolberg) on Kennedy's vaccine inquiry being led by Kulldorff. Howard's pushback on the framing of Kulldorff as merely "a critic of restrictions and mandates" — and the 2020 record of his herd-immunity-through-infection advocacy, including his Stockholm "almost at herd immunity" claim in April 2020. The hosts' concern that the COVID amnesia project lets pandemic-era pro-infection figures re-enter regulatory power with their record sanitized. Casey Means, Surgeon General nomination withdrawal, and MAHA fracturing The withdrawn Surgeon General nomination and what it signals. The Robert Malone vs. Makary public falling-out over the unreleased pediatric deaths data. Why the MAHA coalition — held together by shared COVID grievance — is coming apart now that COVID has receded from headlines. Notable Moments On Cassidy: "He betrayed his oath as a physician, he betrayed the American people, and he's going down into the ignominious dust." — Wendy Orent On the Makary–Prasad–Hoeg trio: "The same skill sets that catapulted these guys to power — essentially being excellent podcasters — do not translate into leading a government agency of tens of thousands of employees that regulates 20 percent of the US economy." — Jonathan Howard On the legacy: "These guys are now cautionary tales for medical students. I would love to teach a course called 'Be the Opposite of Bill Cassidy, Marty Makary, Vinay Prasad, and Tracy Beth Hoeg.'" — Jonathan Howard On Bhattacharya: "His soul has been totally corrupted by the people who he teamed up with. You also see it in his face. He's not the same person that took the position." — Jonathan Howard References Mentioned in the Episode Stat News — "Why Marty Makary Was the Worst FDA Commissioner in 25 Years" Vinay Prasad's 2016 Stat News rebuttal of Makary's "medical error" claim David Gorski (Science-Based Medicine, 2016) — rebuttal of the medical-error-as-third-leading-cause-of-death claim Jonathan Howard, Science-Based Medicine — recent piece compiling Makary's COVID-era statements New York Times — Christina Jewet...
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Nicole Saphier Surgeon General Nomination, Dr. David Morens Arrest, and the FDA's COVID Vaccine Censorship
2w ago00:49:48Tap to summarizeDr. Jonathan Howard (neurologist and author) and science journalist Wendy Orent return for another sharp, unsparing look at the state of U.S. public health policy. In this episode, the hosts unpack the surprise withdrawal of Casey Means as surgeon general nominee, her replacement by Fox News commentator and MSKCC breast imaging chief Dr. Nicole Saphier, and what the shuffle signals about the fracturing of the MAHA coalition. They dig into Saphier's contradictory record — pro-vaccine statements from 2020 and 2021 set against more recent anti-vaccine messaging, her supplement business (DropRx), and her now-deleted social media posts criticizing Trump and Elon Musk. From there, the conversation turns to the FDA's blocked publication of research showing the COVID and shingles vaccines are safe, the apparent role of former FDA vaccine office chief Dr. Vinay Prasad, and reporting that FDA Commissioner Marty Makary's job is in jeopardy. The episode also covers a small piece of good news — NIH program director Jenna Norton being reinstated after Jay Bhattacharya placed her on administrative leave for organizing the Bethesda Declaration — alongside disturbing developments: RFK Jr. clearing the path for minors to use tanning beds, and the militarized arrest of 78-year-old retired NIH scientist Dr. David Morens. Howard and Orent close on what the Morens arrest reveals about where lab leak conspiracy thinking has led American science and the rule of law. Hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard: Neurologist, professor, and author who writes prolifically on COVID misinformation and public health policy. Wendy Orent: Science journalist and author specializing in infectious disease, evolutionary biology, and public health. Episode Timestamps [00:00] Welcome and Atlanta weather check-in [00:35] Casey Means out, Nicole Saphier in as surgeon general nominee — what it signals about MAHA [01:30] Saphier's role at Memorial Sloan Kettering and her integrative medicine push [02:50] The 2021 WSJ op-ed with Marty Makary: a 10-fold error on pediatric COVID hospitalizations that was never corrected [06:30] Saphier's video opposing COVID vaccines for healthy children — and the framing of myocarditis as a fate worse than death [09:20] Saphier's earlier pro-vaccine statements from 2020 and 2021, and why MAHA now resents her [11:15] DropRx supplements: the surgeon general nominee's tincture business [12:30] Brandy Zadrozny's reporting on Saphier's book and her past criticism of the Plandemic film [13:10] Wendy watches Plandemic so you don't have to: Judy Mikovits and the anti-vaccine machine [14:50] CNN reports Saphier purged posts critical of Trump and Musk before her nomination [15:50] The most disturbing Saphier clip: 'DOGE is one of the greatest things to happen in U.S. history' while telling cancer researchers to 'just pause' [16:50] Harvard's November 2025 finding: hundreds of thousands of deaths from the USAID shutdown [18:20] Good news: Jenna Norton reinstated at NIH after Jay Bhattacharya tried to fire her over the Bethesda Declaration [19:30] Greg Gonsalves on scientists who cooperate with authoritarian science policy [20:10] FDA blocked publication of research showing the COVID and shingles vaccines are safe [21:30] Vinay Prasad: the censorship critic who became a censor [22:30] Why are these people opposed to the shingles vaccine? Howard and Orent on herpes zoster, strokes, and ophthalmic complications [23:50] New evidence: recombinant zoster vaccine linked to reduced dementia risk in adults 65+ [26:10] Marty Makary's FDA in chaos — WSJ, Bloomberg, and Politico reporting on a possible shakeup [28:00] Trump pressures the FDA to approve flavored vapes; ENDS authorization issued the same day [31:00] Makary's interview defending the Replimmune metastatic melanoma rejection — and getting caught in the contradiction [33:30] Who's really driving the FDA shakeup? Biotech investors, not patients [35:30] RFK Jr. clears path for minors to use tanning beds, and what dermatologists are saying [36:30] The arrest of Dr. David Morens: a 78-year-old retired NIH scientist, federal agents, tactical gear, and a strip-search [38:30] Lysenkoism revisited — what the lab leak conspiracy was always going to lead to [40:30] Closing thoughts and sign-off Key Discussion Points The Nicole Saphier Nomination Casey Means was withdrawn as surgeon general nominee and replaced by Dr. Nicole Saphier, head of breast imaging at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and a frequent Fox News medical commentator. Howard revisits Saphier's December 2021 Wall Street Journal op-ed with Marty Makary, which understated pediatric COVID-19 hospitalizations by roughly a factor of 10 because the authors did not realize covid.net data only covered about 10 percent of the U.S. population. The error has never been corrected. Saphier's pre-nomination digital footprint included pro-vaccine statements from 2020 and 2021 alongside more recent anti-vaccine content, criticism of Trump and Elon Musk that has since been purged, and a personal supplement line called DropRx. FDA Censorship of Vaccine Safety Research The FDA blocked publication of internal research finding that the COVID-19 and shingles vaccines are safe, with reporting suggesting Dr. Vinay Prasad's office was involved in the decision before he left the agency. Howard points out the irony: Prasad built much of his public profile complaining about scientific censorship, then engaged in censorship the moment he held FDA power. New peer-reviewed research continues to show the recombinant zoster (shingles) vaccine is associated with reduced dementia risk in adults aged 65 and older, even as senior officials downplay or block such findings. Marty Makary on Thin Ice Multiple outlets — the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, NOTUS, and a Rachel Bade scoop — report Makary is at risk of being removed as FDA Commissioner over conflicts with the White House and his handling of rare-disease drug approvals. The same day Trump publicly pressured the FDA on flavored vapes, the agency issued a press release authorizing new ENDS (electronic nicotine delivery systems) products. In a 15-minute interview, Makary defended the rejection of Replimmune's metastatic melanoma drug by attributing it to career FDA scientists, but the journalist surfaced earlier indications that the initial review team had recommended approval. A Rare Piece of Good News NIH program director Jenna Norton, a key organizer of the Bethesda Declaration, was reinstated after Dr. Jay Bhattacharya placed her on administrative leave. A judge also reinstated several FEMA employees in the same ruling. The Arrest of Dr. David Morens Federal agents in tactical gear and bulletproof vests arrested Dr. David Morens, a 78-year-old retired NIH influenza researcher and former aide to Dr. Anthony Fauci, at his home over allegations he used a private email account to discuss official business and avoid FOIA disclosure. According to reporting in Science, Morens was strip-searched, handcuffed, and driven roughly 65 kilometers for fingerprinting and book...
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COVID Misinformation, Scientific Censorship & Public Health Leadership Failures: What's Really Happening in 2026
4w ago01:13:26Tap to summarizeIn this episode of We Want Them Infected, hosts Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent break down the growing concerns around scientific censorship, COVID-19 misinformation, and the erosion of public trust in health institutions. They examine controversial claims surrounding vaccine studies, leadership decisions at the CDC and NIH, and the broader implications of political influence on public health policy. The discussion highlights debates over COVID vaccine efficacy research, the suppression of scientific findings, and the role of key figures like Jay Bhattacharya and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in shaping public discourse. The hosts also explore the resurgence of diseases like measles, declining vaccination rates, and the long-term consequences of weakened public health infrastructure. From academic freedom concerns to global health risks, this episode provides a critical analysis of how misinformation and leadership decisions are reshaping science, medicine, and public trust in 2026. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Trump's Surprise CDC Pick, a Circular Firing Squad at MAHA, and Vinay Prasad's Failed RCTs
Apr 2200:46:07Tap to summarizeJonathan and Wendy unpack the most surprising political move of Trump's second term: the nomination of Dr. Erica Schwartz — a physician, lawyer, former Coast Guard public health official, and unapologetic architect of military vaccine mandates — to run the CDC. Praised by figures like Jerome Adams, Vin Gupta, and Dorit Reiss, and openly loathed by RFK Jr.'s attack-dog attorney Aaron Siri, Schwartz's selection is read as a signal that the White House is quietly sidelining Kennedy ahead of the midterms and trying to win back the saner corners of the GOP. From there, the hosts dig into the widening fault lines inside MAHA: Marty Makary vs. Robert Malone — the "10 children killed by the COVID vaccine" report Makary promised has never materialized, and Malone is now publicly accusing him of the exact cover-up Makary accused his predecessors of. Vinay Prasad's exit from the FDA — his much-hyped randomized controlled trial of the Pfizer COVID vaccine in healthy 50–64-year-olds failed to recruit, proving (again) that tweeting about RCTs is easier than running them. Jonathan plays Prasad's own year-old promise back against him. The rumored FDA replacement — ophthalmologist and Twitter personality David Hooman, whose COVID-vaccine misinformation record would send exactly the wrong signal. Jay Bhattacharya on the rally circuit — CPAC, Turning Point USA, Kennedy rallies, DeSantis rallies — all while insisting "science shouldn't be political." Plus his role in suppressing a CDC vaccine-safety study and the UCSF faculty petition to block Prasad's return. The peptides free-for-all at the FDA, and why Kennedy still has enough juice to throw bones to his wellness-grifter base. Also: measles in Utah, a Moab travel detour, and a plea to every journalist, clinician, and listener still pushing back. MAHA is on its back foot — the job now is to keep the pressure on.
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UAPs, UFOs, and Un-Recommending Vaccines: A Normal Day Inside MAHA
Apr 601:26:30Tap to summarizeJonathan Howard and Wendy Orent dig into the widening fractures inside the MAHA coalition — from Robert Malone's dramatic ACIP exit and UFO tangents, to Vinay Prasad's phantom "10 dead children" claim, Jay Bhattacharya's inability to fix literal broken windows at the CDC, and the ongoing search for anyone willing to run federal health agencies. A sprawling, unscripted conversation about vaccine science, institutional collapse, and the human cost of health misinformation. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Vinay Prasad Fired from FDA: MAHA Infighting, Vaccine Policy Battles, and the Fallout for Rare Disease Treatments
Mar 1601:22:12Tap to summarizeIn this episode, the hosts unpack the controversial exit of Vinay Prasad from the FDA and what it reveals about fractures inside the MAHA coalition and the broader Trump-era health policy landscape. They examine the disputes surrounding rare-disease drug approvals—particularly Huntington's gene therapy—alongside ongoing battles over COVID vaccines, regulatory standards, and public trust in federal health agencies. The discussion also explores how political alliances, pandemic-era commentary, and conflicts with patient advocacy groups ultimately contributed to Prasad's downfall and what it may signal for the future of vaccine policy and biomedical regulation in the U.S. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Is U.S. Public Health Breaking Down? Inside the Chaos with Jeff Kunzler
Mar 401:32:31Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Jonathan and Wendy examine the growing instability inside U.S. public health institutions and how political battles, misinformation, and shifting leadership are reshaping the national conversation around vaccines and infectious disease. They are joined by Jeff Kunzler, creator of the Pandemic Accountability Index, a project that tracks misinformation and public commentary related to the COVID-19 pandemic. Together, they unpack rising measles cases, the evolving political influence on public health agencies, and the broader cultural battle over how the pandemic will be remembered. The conversation explores how misinformation spreads, how public trust has shifted since COVID-19, and what the future may hold for American public health policy. Guest Bio Jeff Kunzler is the creator of the Pandemic Accountability Index, a project that tracks misinformation and public statements related to the COVID-19 pandemic and public health policy. Raised in Washington State's Skagit Valley, Jeff later worked in the advertising industry as a graphic designer, copywriter, and photographer. During the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic, he began compiling medical research, public commentary, and social media statements related to pandemic narratives. That work eventually developed into the Pandemic Accountability Index, which aims to document how influential figures shaped public health discourse during the pandemic. Resources Pandemic Accountability Index https://pandemicindex.substack.com Science Based Medicine https://sciencebasedmedicine.org Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Glyphosate, Measles & mRNA: Is Public Health in Freefall?
Feb 2301:25:38Tap to summarizeIn this headline-driven episode, Jonathan and Wendy unpack the mounting turbulence inside U.S. public health institutions — from the political fallout over glyphosate and mRNA flu vaccines to FDA reversals, CDC leadership chaos, and a worsening measles outbreak. They examine internal fractures within the Maha movement, the politicization of vaccine policy, and the devastating real-world consequences of misinformation — including a 7-year-old hospitalized with measles encephalitis. The episode blends policy critique, scientific context, and ethical concern, highlighting how regulatory instability and distrust are reshaping American public health in 2026. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Imaginary Doctors & Real Harm: The Measles-MAGA Convergence
Feb 1901:41:34Tap to summarizeJonathan and Wendy unpack how culture war politics, anti-vaccine ideology, and regulatory power are colliding in dangerous ways. The conversation begins with criticism Jonathan received after arguing that trans healthcare decisions should be left to doctors, patients, and families—not debated for podcast content or political gain. The discussion then pivots to the measles resurgence, including outbreaks in ICE detention centers and efforts to minimize measles deaths using recycled COVID-era talking points. They examine five recurring myths being repurposed from COVID to measles: people are dying "with" not "of" the disease, only sick children die, the outbreak is "almost over," vaccines are more dangerous than the illness, and doctors are to blame for deaths. Finally, they analyze the FDA's controversial refusal to review Moderna's mRNA flu vaccine, exploring what that decision signals about regulatory instability, innovation suppression, and long-term damage to vaccine research in the U.S. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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The 'Free Speech' Crowd That Keeps Locking Journalists Out
Feb 501:28:53Tap to summarizeJonathan and Wendy unpack a week of grim headlines—starting with reactions to the Epstein files and what it means when high-profile "wellness" personalities show up in uncomfortable places. From there, they dig into the ongoing campaign to re-litigate COVID (lockdowns, schools, vaccines) as a justification for dismantling public health, highlighting how "restore trust in science" rhetoric often functions as cover for undermining expertise, sidelining journalists, and mainstreaming vaccine skepticism—while preventable outbreaks like measles keep spreading. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
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