Abby Wambach and Julie Foudy Break Down Your Next Sport Obsession

Summary

Podcast Summary: Welcome to the Party – “Abby Wambach and Julie Foudy Break Down Your Next Sport Obsession”
April 23, 2026 | Treat Media

---

Episode Overview

This vibrant and insightful episode features soccer champs Abby Wambach and Julie Foudy, joined by rugby pioneers Carly Waters (star of Denver Onyx and former Eagle) and Leslie Patterson (former rugby player, five-time triathlon world champion, and Oscar-nominated screenwriter). With their signature energy and banter, Abby and Julie dive into the surging popularity of women’s rugby in the US, spotlight the new Women’s Elite Rugby (WER) league, and discuss the culture, inclusivity, and excitement driving this “sport obsession.” Billie Jean King does not join this time, but her party spirit is ever-present!

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Women’s Rugby is Booming

(09:41, 12:40)

• The hosts express surprise and excitement over new statistics: nearly half of women's rugby fans are brand new in the last two years.
• Surpassing expectations: By 2024, there were more female high school rugby players than male— a “boom moment.”
  • Julie: “In 2024, there were more female rugby players in high school than male players.” (01:33)
  • Abby: “Didn’t know it, but believe it because I’m one of them.” (01:22)
• Rugby’s appeal: “Women’s rugby is hot, y’all.” (12:40)
• WER (the Women’s Elite Rugby league) launches its second season May 2, fast becoming the US’s hub for women’s 15s rugby.

2. WER: Structure & Accessibility

(20:14)

• Six teams: Denver, Bay Area, Chicago, Minnesota, New York, Boston.
• Grown from the grassroots Women’s Premier League, but now fully professional: full-time coaching, medical access, training.
• Rugby 101: 15 vs. 15, 2x40min halves, strict tactical sub limits (8 per match, re-entry only for “front row” specialists).
  • Carly: “Rugby's the only sport that is for any. Any body is a rugby body.” (15:46)
• Distinction explained between “sevens” (Olympic rugby) and “fifteens” (traditional format).

3. Culture & Community: The Rugby Difference

(17:20, 18:15, 23:40, 32:34)

• Rugby as a culture of connection, inclusion, and vulnerability.
• Leslie: “You become more vulnerable, and that's where we bond over vulnerability. We don't bond over strength.” (17:20)
• Emphasis on respect— for teammates and opponents; matches traditionally end with both teams sharing a meal.
  • Carly: “After every single match, you go and share a meal with the team you just played.” (32:34)
• Rugby’s unique inclusivity is contrasted with other sports’ more exclusive histories.

4. Physicality, Safety, and Gender Stereotypes

(29:56, 30:17, 31:59)

• Confronting bias: Despite perceptions, women’s rugby methods and coaching put safety first.
  • Carly: “We do a lot of neck strengthening, a lot of understanding of when you’re falling, fall on your hard parts...Let’s protect you because it’s safer than sorry.” (30:17)
• Tackling misconceptions: Rugby’s lack of pads encourages players to be more careful and respectful.
  • Julie: “With rugby, there’s a lot more not just care for self, but also care for the opponent.” (31:59)
• Rugby’s “every-body” inclusivity is a point of pride, both physically and socially.

5. Personal Journeys and Full-Circle Moments

(25:57, 28:45, 29:56)

• Leslie Patterson reflects on being the lone girl among 250 boys playing in Scotland in the '80s, persevering without changing rooms or support, and now getting to help build professional pathways for women in rugby:
  • “Those days for me were all about resilience…like, literally, when you get knocked down, how do you get back up, right?” (25:57)
• Crossover with other sports: Leslie’s triathlon career is “rugby meets triathlon,” connecting her rugby foundation to later elite success.
• Mental toughness: Addressed through neuroscience; every tough moment in sport is “brain training” for life’s challenges.

6. Tactics and the Scrum Half Mystique

(23:40, 23:57, 24:26, 24:39)

• Scrum half explained: “I wear number nine. I can’t do my job without my number one…think of me as the quarterback; I touch every ball from every breakdown.”
• Julie: “I would have been a scrum. Yeah, that’s what I would want to do.” (24:26)
• Signature trash talk: Scrum halves, notably Carly (“Sassy”), are known as the team’s vocal motivators (and provocateurs).

7. Inclusivity, Transgender Policy, and the Challenge of Change

(34:19)

• Addressing the impact of recent transgender bans in sports, especially after a Trump executive order— hosts and guests voice heartbreak but reaffirm rugby’s “for everyone” ethos.
  • Carly: “Everybody is a rugby body. Rugby is for everyone...now being tested at the seams as to what are the values, what are our principles, how can we rise, move forward together in this without losing what our foundation is?” (35:14)
• Leslie calls for “a path so nobody feels marginalized…It’s inclusivity in the best Way possible, but still trying to be fair…” (36:16)
• The hosts and guests unite in their commitment to inclusivity regardless of external politics.

8. The Future: Major Events & Legacy

(37:24)

• The momentum is only growing: 2029 Women’s Rugby World Cup in Australia, then 2033 in the USA.
• Carly: “These little girls now that have just started playing, their careers by then can be in college and be in contention for spots within that. How cool is that?” (37:45)

---

Memorable Quotes

• Leslie Patterson:
  “We bond over vulnerability. We don’t bond over strength.” (17:20)
  “Whenever you’re having a tough moment, you’re essentially brain training and it helps you the next time you face something tough…rugby is brilliant for that.” (27:10)

• Carly Waters:
  “Rugby’s the only sport that is for any. Any body is a rugby body.” (15:46)
  “At its core, rugby is certainly founded on respect. After every single match, you go and share a meal with the team you just played.” (32:34)

• Abby Wambach:
  “Abby, you would have been a really good rugby player. You would have just, like, run through people. Boom.” (25:05, Julie Foudy speaking)

---

Key Timestamps

• 01:33 – Stat: More female high school rugby players than male in 2024.
• 12:40 – Introduction to the WER league and this episode’s guests.
• 15:46 – Rugby’s inclusivity and “every body is a rugby body.”
• 17:20 – Rugby builds resilience and authentic relationships.
• 20:14 – WER league format: teams, rules, and sport basics.
• 23:40 – Roles explained: scrum half, lineout, game tactics.
• 24:52 – “Sassy” scrum halves, trash talk, and leadership.
• 25:57 – Leslie’s experiences as a lone girl in youth rugby.
• 29:56 – Safety and coaching advancements in rugby.
• 32:34 – Post-game traditions—sharing meals with opponents.
• 34:19 – Transgender inclusivity and policy challenges in rugby.
• 37:24 – Coming events: Olympics, World Cup, WER kickoff.

---

Final Thoughts & Closing Energy

• The episode pulses with advocacy, humor, and passion. The guests and hosts unite around the mission to “bring the party” to women’s sports, particularly rugby, making a powerful case for its physicality, community focus, and future.
• Julie, closing: “I want to get out there and start tackling people.”
• Abby: “Now that I know…the way that they go about it is with utter respect for their bodies and…the bodies on the opposing team, that's amazing to me.” (39:29)

WER’s new season begins May 2 (streamed on Women’s Sports Network). Watch the Pink Pony Club—in action, not just for the party, but to witness the future of women’s sport.

---

For full info, highlight reels, or to dive into the party yourself, follow Welcome to the Party across platforms and tune in for more trailblazing women’s sports talk.

Transcript

[A]

Abby, you would have been a really good rugby player. You would have just, like, run through people. Boom. Boom. The scrum halfs are notoriously the players who trash talk, which I love. Is that, like, why they call you? Your nickname is Sassy?

[B]

I'm the firstborn and the only daughter, so I've had a chip my whole life. And then I have red hair, so why not?

[C]

So it's swimming, mountain biking, and trail riding. I always say to everyone, I still feel like I'm a rugby player at heart.

[A]

Pink pony clam Imma keep on dancing.

[D]

Attention, the party is about to commence.

[A]

Welcome to the party. What's up, party people? I'm Julie Foudy.

[D]

And I'm Billie Jean King. Just kidding. I'm Abby Wambach.

[A]

It's me, Abs. Coming up, we think that we might have found the next sport the party people are going to be obsessed with.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

Because we are. And apparently we're not alone. Nearly half this blew my mind. Did you know this, Abs?

[D]

What?

[A]

That half of women. What? You got to tell me. First half of women's rugby fans are brand new. In just the last two years.

[D]

Didn't know it, but believe it because I'm one of them.

[A]

Yeah, true. And in 2024, there were. There were more female rugby players in high school than men, so.

[D]

No way.

[A]

Yeah, more female. Say that again. In 2024, there were more female rugby players in high school than male players. So later in this episode, we are going to talk to two women in the thick of this boom. And they're from wer, which is women's elite rugby, the pro women's league here in the US first ever Pro Women's 15s League here in the US and hopefully by the end of this episode, you won't just be a fan, but you'll be casually dropping scrum half into conversations like we are right now. Okay, but first, how are you, abs? What are you doing this weekend? What's happening?

[D]

I'm good. I'm good. I have. Emma has a soccer game on Saturday, and then. So we're gonna go to that. And she's got, like, four more league games left, so we, like, really want to try to get to them. And then on Sunday.

[A]

Wait, her collarbone is fully healed and she's back.

[D]

Totally back. Totally back.

[A]

Okay, good.

[D]

And then on Sunday, I'm very excited because I'm getting to go to my first Angel City home game this season. I hope I don't jinx it, because I'm superstitious and I'm like, they're having a pretty good beginning of their season. And I don't want to be playing Portland.

[A]

Right?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a game. How about you? What are you doing?

[A]

I say that with a grimace because I can't go. Oh, no.

[D]

Oh, it's kills me.

[A]

I. I'm going to Stagecoach.

[D]

Okay, here we go. Let's talk about it.

[A]

Let's. Let's not. Let's be clear. I am not going to Stagecoach. Stagecoach. For those who don't know, this is a very Southern Cal thing, but people come from all over the nation. It's basically the country version of Coachella. Coachella happens two weekends in a row, and then the third weekend is Stagecoach. It's the co. Country version. But having said that, they have a lot of non country artists playing and it's a three day concert festival to which I have no desire to go to a three day festival anymore. I am simply. My parents live like 15 minutes from where the. The site is in Palm Desert. And so last year.

[D]

You going to stage?

[A]

Yeah, last year I got. I got sucked into going because Izzy wanted to go with her friends and it was all the rage. And I said yes. I gave it to her as her Christmas gift.

[B]

And.

[A]

And once you do that for one kid.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Here's what you learn. Parents, you have to do it for the second kid. Okay. And now it's five boys at my parents house, and I'm simply going to keep my parents alive. That's why I'm going.

[D]

My gosh. Okay. I have a lot to talk to you about this with because I have big feelings about Stagecoach and Coachella and high school kids. I've got big feelings about it.

[A]

Okay?

[D]

I. We won't. We don't pay for our kids to do these things. We're like, if you want to go, we understand. It could be like really fun, but like, you have to pay your total way. So it's like not just the weekend and the cost of every ticket, which is expensive, but where are you gonna stay? What are you gonna eat? It's like thousands of dollars out there.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[D]

It's like thousands of dollars for these kids to go to these events. And I just don't think that that's right. Jules, what is wrong?

[A]

Why had. Why couldn't you have talked to me about this before I bought the damn ticket for Izzy? So Declan literally was like, mom, bro, you know I'm going to. And I was like, no, I don't know that nothing Is assumed in life. Okay.

[D]

He's a junior. You should have waited until he was a senior because Izzy was a senior. That would have been the get out of jail free thing.

[A]

Maybe, Maybe. So next year, I say, you want to go, that's fine. You're gonna pay to get there because you've already been. I paid for that one.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

That's what I'm doing.

[D]

Well, that's fun. I mean, what are you gonna do when they go?

[A]

I mean, it's fun. I get to see my parents. I'm gonna hang out with Swaggy, my dog. I'm gonna play some pickleball. But I'm gonna go see mom and dad, which is always really fun as well. And they live literally 15 minutes from Stagecoach. So I will. I will inform you if I survived.

[D]

Will the boys party into the wee hours of the night at your parents place, or will they be respectful and come home and go to sleep? What do you think?

[A]

Oh, no, no, no. They'll be respectful. I would crush them if they did that.

[D]

And how will they get back to, like, will you pick them up?

[A]

That's a whole nother podcast episode.

[D]

You're going to pick them up, aren't you?

[A]

You're gonna.

[D]

You're gonna designate drive these?

[A]

No. No. So we learned this last year. This is so complicated, y'. All. Stagecoach is so complicated. I was like, I'm not coming to get you. You're going to Uber home. Yeah, it's a tag team type of situation. But I'm not getting them every night. No, I'm getting him one night.

[D]

Oh, my God. You're doing it one night.

[A]

And it certainly won't be Sunday night because we're recording on Monday.

[D]

Oh, it's so fun being a parent. I'm telling you. These, the late night pickups, I'm. I'm just like, yes, I will always pick you up. I will. If you call and you need a ride. Yes. But when I'm in. When I'm in the car, I'm like, God damn it.

[A]

Yeah, it's really fun. All right, party people. Don't go anywhere. Women's rugby is having a moment, and we're about to tell you why it's time for you to get on board.

[D]

Okay. So, Jules, you know, I love versatile pieces for my closet that are first and foremost, comfortable and functional. Okay.

[A]

Both very important.

[D]

Exactly. But also pieces that can go, I think, from, like, multiple events. Right. From a watch party on the field to dinner with my family. And that is honestly why I love quints. And right now, as we know that the weather is changing, all of us are looking towards those closet refreshes. I know that sometimes I look at my closet and I'm like, I hate all of my clothes. Quince makes, I think, beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials like a hundred percent European linen, organic cotton, and you know, the superest, most softest denim you've ever felt. They're spring pieces, jewels. They're lightweight, they're breathable and effortless. Just like the most recent Mongolian cashmere tea that is now a go to in my closet. Have you tried it? It's good.

[A]

I actually haven't tried the tea. I have the Mongolian cashmere long sleeve, but I'm gonna try the tea.

[D]

It is a basic tea that meets sustainability sourced Mongolian cashmere that it's also softens with every single wear. It's perfect for those cooler days that we still get throughout, you know, the spring. So Quint works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Refresh your spring wardrobe with quint. Go to quinn.com welcome to the party for free shipping and 365 day return. Now available in Canada also so go to Q-U-I-N c e.com welcome to the party for Free Shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com welcome to the party.

[A]

This show is sponsored by Liquid IV Abs.

[D]

Yo.

[A]

I have a feeling that you and I do vacations very similar. We are active, we are hiking, we are moving, we are pickleballing. We're surfing. We're doing it. All right.

[D]

Yes. My family and Jules, my family, we like to find one of the most like unpopular hikes. So I guess uncrowded is the way. Like we don't want to be on the most popular trail.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So we go down the these rabb holes of like finding the off the beaten path.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Trails. Do, do you guys do that or you guys popular trail?

[A]

No, I like, I like the path less traveled. For sure.

[D]

For sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And, and, and that because of that, you have to prepare for all circumstances. And by the way, let's just say it now, family vacation is not vacation. It's trips. There's no such thing as family vacation

[A]

when you have kids.

[D]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

When you have children, they're trips.

[A]

We actually did a hike that's really popular because it's, it's so good. When we were in Kauai last year. That waterfall hike, that's hard. It's really hard.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Way up high. You pass long Hanalei Bay. You keep going. You have to take a shuttle in and because it's so long. We know. And I've done this hike before where I didn't bring enough water and electrolytes when I was younger. And so I told the kids. So the kids and I and Ian, we just like started shoving Liquid IV packets in everything we could in the backpacks and pockets so that when we were on this hike and I. And I'm like, you have to bring enough water. Because the thing about those adventures and. And long, long travels and hikes like that, they wipe you out. So that's where Liquid IV has become. Are non negotiable. I literally throw those packets in and you can tear one open while you're hiking and just dump it in your water.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[D]

And you can really feel the difference because, Jules, I don't know if you know this. It's powered by their live hydro science formula, like an optimized ratio of electrolytes, vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients that hydrate faster than water alone. And Jules, it's going to keep you hydrated for up to four hours. So that's not. That's not nothing. When you're running and, and, and hiking some of the. And. And going on these long hikes like. Like you did in Kauai.

[A]

Okay. You know what my go to flavor is?

[D]

What?

[A]

Have you tried this one?

[D]

No.

[A]

Pina colada.

[D]

Pina colada? I've not tried that.

[A]

Oh, I. It is. Is as if you were drinking a pina colada. It's clean, it's refreshing, it's not too sweet. What's your fave?

[D]

Oh, good. White, white peach.

[A]

White peach. Okay. Y. Okay. And if you want sugar free, that's your white peach one. You got that. You got rainbow sherbet that fun. So wherever your curiosity takes you, bring Liquid IV. Go to Liquid I.com and get 20% off your first order with code. Welcome to the party at checkout. That's 20% off with code. Welcome to the party at [e-mail]. tear pour live more. Hike more, party more. You know, one of our favorite things to do on welcome to the party is intro our party people to sports and athletes we think they're really going to love.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

Today we are doing just that. We are talking women's rugby and a new league. Women's elite rugby. We are starting its second year on May 2nd. We Are is a professional 15s rugby league. It's the first professional women's 15s league in the US and even if you party, people don't know much about it yet. You're about to because women's rugby is hot, y'. All. According to A Blueprint for Growth, a report released in April 2026 by World Rugby, nearly half of women's rugby fans are brand new. Literally, they just found the sport in the last two years. And the last women's Rugby World cup in England in 2025 pulled in 147 million. Yes. Million viewing hours globally and packed almost 82,000 people into the final. And you know what's really cool? This is actually our second rugby episode. We're rugby experts because we had Elon Amar on a few months back and now we get to talk to Carly Waters, who's also been a member of the Eagles, that's USA Rugby's women's team and is currently a star on The Denver Onyx. WER's first league champion. Yes, they won it last year. And we also have Leslie Patterson, a former rugby player before any professional leagues, a five time world champion triathlete and I'm not stopping there. An Oscar nominated screenwriter. I'll say it again, an Oscar nominated screenwriter. That's right. She co wrote the German language Netflix hit All Quiet on the Western Front which ended up winning four Oscars and a nomination for best picture. Leslie grew up playing rugby and is on the board of WER helping to build the system from the inside out. We are pumped to talk women's pro rugby right here in the US and finally found out find out what a scrum half actually is. Carly and Leslie, welcome to the party. Welcome to the party.

[D]

Let's go. Go. We're so happy you're here. Thank you for my hat.

[C]

You guys are excitable.

[B]

You're going to want to rotate your hat.

[D]

Yours is on backwards.

[B]

Oh, you're partying too hard over there. Yes.

[D]

So do your fans wear these, Carly,

[B]

or is this like we have? We have such a loyal fan group here in Denver. The thought of making them only came to me for our last home game last year, but I made 60 plus hats and they sold out before the game kicked off, so no way. I'm really excited. I've been ahead of my game this year so we'll just have even more options, more styles going into this year and see what we can do.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I love this so much.

[D]

Look at these things.

[A]

I'm part of the Pink Pony club. I'm very excited about that.

[D]

Rugby is clearly based on Julie's awesome intro. Rugby is super popular right now. Like, what is happening to fuel the explosion of interest?

[B]

Carly, I would see, I mean, firstly, clearly Ilona's presence on TikTok, specifically during the Olympics, that was, I would say, initially the huge match that has lit this fire, right? She's on there. She's so present. She engages with her fans, she stands up to bullies and is, like, letting people know what's around. She came out at the SBS and spoke about the upcoming women's games that were happening in the country and the World cup was going on. And I think her voice around this has also empowered small voices that until this point had been smaller. Really shining a light on what it is and what it can be. And, like, the thing about all of it is, like, rugby's the only sport that is for any. Any body is a rugby body. It is number by position. I wear number nine. I can't do my job without my number one. And they can feel comfortable and confident in their body because they can do something that I can't.

[A]

I don't know if you, if you've seen this stat, we mentioned it earlier as we opened the show, but I'll say it again. There was a recent stat from the 202425 season that showed there are currently more registered girls than boys in high school rugby during that fall season. Does that surprise you at all?

[B]

No. I grew up playing soccer, I ran track, I played softball for a brief stint. Never have I experienced the culture anywhere else that I have found in rugby.

[C]

I think it's just building these immense life skills. And I think, you know, there's been such a preconceived notion of how women are together, whether it's, you know, combative, bitchy, supportive, loving. And I sort of feel like any sport like this when you are, again, very raw. You know, you're on the field, you're having that contact, you're building those skills. It takes all of that away and it just becomes authenticity. And I think that's what makes a relationship so strong. I've experienced it in my sport. I. I call it sort of my training wives and husbands. Because what you share with each other, when you're going through adversity, when you're going through pain, right, you become more vulnerable. And that's where we bond over vulnerability. We don't bond over strength. And that's where the community is just so strong in female rugby.

[D]

That is so interesting to me thinking about the physicality of rugby being the thing that unites the entire community, not just the players, but even the people who are watching in a way that there's an immense amount of connectivity through the vulnerability of saying, you know, like, this is hard and this is physical and we're willing to push ourselves to the boundaries. Do you find that, that, that the women rugby athletes worldwide kind of buy into this sentiment that like, the physicality is part of, not the only, but part of what brings you all together and makes it such an interesting thing and a compelling thing to be watching?

[B]

I would say so I think it's a very special thing, right. There's a lot of assumptions around who you are if you were going to be in this environment. But it's understanding that, hey, I'm putting my body on the line for you and you're doing the same for me. And what, what an unbelievable thing that is to sacrifice for each other in that way. Because anything could happen. I could do everything 100% correctly on my part and one, one little dip in the grass could change the whole scenario. I think that's a really big bonding moment of it for sure.

[C]

It speaks to responsibility, doesn't it? Which I think that, you know, it's a wonderful sort of Viktor Frankl quote, you know, with freedom comes responsibility. And so it's like when you have the freedom to use your body and the means to be able to play this sport, you know, and to be on a team and the gratefulness of that, it comes as a responsibility to your other players. And that's just a wonderful skill to develop inherently in the sport, you know, that I think in everyday life we don't. It's heightened. It's heightened in this sport more than ever.

[D]

Can we just go back and. For the party people, which is what we call our listeners, can you give us a quick rundown of women's elite rugby? Okay. Like the first professional women's 15s rugby league in the U.S. how many teams, what the season is, what is the difference between Olympic rugby versus fifteens? Like sevens versus 15.

[B]

Yep. So in women's elite rugby, we have six teams. You have Denver, the Bay Area, Chicago, Minnesota, New York and Boston. These teams are founded on. The previous league was known as the Women's Premier League. It stood independently for 10 years prior to transitioning to WER. So hugely important that we were able to sustain that for so long and then transition into the structure where we are now more supported as players within a professional environment. Full time coaches, full time training, accessibility, medical accessibility, all of the necessities in order to move the sport forward. The difference here is we play 15v15, two 40 minute halves. So it is truly blood, sweat and tears through that. You have eight subs and that's per person. So if Julie comes off the field, Julie cannot go back on the field. There's only ever or just that for the rest of the match. Oh yes. So there is a lot of tactical gameplay in how you are going to how and when you're gonna sub. Hey, can this player cover multiple positions? All of those kind of dynamics. So you can be on a roster and not necessarily know if you can play four, but you can also play six. Who's. Who's gonna need a little more help at the end of the the game is what it's going to come down to. There's only three positions on the field that could potentially come back into a match and that is going to be numbers one, two and three. One and three are props, two is a hooker. They are special specialist positions. So they are the three at the front of the scrum that take probably 500 plus pounds behind them and go through each other. Couldn't be me.

[D]

I couldn't be me.

[B]

I'm so grateful for the work that my friend.

[A]

Couldn't be me either. That's what I know. Maybe Abby. Abby, you could be a hooker.

[D]

That would have been me. Say that 10 times. Okay. And the try, what did you call it?

[B]

A try? Yeah. Try is the touchdown or the goal.

[D]

Yeah, the, the touchdown. And that's like, that's where you get into like the end zone. Like an NFL.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And then you try to touching.

[B]

Yes. You have to have downward pressure on the ball. Yeah.

[A]

I'm fascinated by what I think you call the lineup.

[B]

The line out.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, line out. Okay. When you.

[B]

And.

[A]

And like the whole lifting of the player and everything.

[B]

Yeah. So that's. If we go. If ball goes into touch. It's, it's. It's your throw in. In soccer. But we just added more people to it. Right. So now we've added.

[A]

I mean maybe we should start doing that abs. It's fun.

[D]

It's like a jump ball in basketball is. Sorry I keep referring to other sports.

[B]

It's a good way to tie it in. Yeah.

[D]

Might need to understand but it is

[A]

kind of like a, a tip off or a jump ball. But you don't. But the only the, the person throwing it in, the team throwing it in gets the to. To lift the person up. Right.

[B]

Both teams can lift. And that's the like chess aspect of it. It's like we. If my team's throwing in, we know where we want to go. If we do spacing, 1, 2, 3. We've communicated, hey, we're going to 3. The defensive team doesn't necessarily know that the scrum half or the halfback is essentially, I wear number nine. So one through eight is forwards and then 10 through 15 is back. So I tie both of them. And I think the easiest way to understand it is that I would be the quarterback in this scenario because I touch every ball from every breakdown. Just about right. Yeah. And I'll. I'll push the tempo. If I think we need to speed up. If we're making good ground, I'll pick up the tempo. If we've gone backwards, two phases, slow it down, I'll organize. Really kind of.

[A]

I would have been a scrum. Yeah, that's what I would want to do.

[B]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[A]

That's like a center midfield.

[B]

Yeah. It's definitely a lot of responsibility of understanding flow of game dynamics, the opposite teams strengths and weaknesses.

[A]

We also heard that the scrum halves are notoriously the players who trash talk, which I love. And I'm wondering, is that like, why that why they call you. Your nickname is Sassy? Does it come from that?

[B]

Well, I mean, that's certainly part of it. I'm the firstborn and the only daughter, so I've had a chip my whole life and then I have red hair, so why not Abby, you would have

[A]

been a really good rugby player. You would just, like, run through people. Boom. I could see you doing that. Totally.

[B]

Boom.

[D]

Yeah. I've tried to play soccer, like rugby,

[B]

and I think, I mean, I did too. And that's why I transitioned, because it was truly. I had a parent from my soccer team be like, you know, my daughter plays rugby. Maybe you should try.

[A]

Yeah, maybe you should move over to that.

[D]

Leslie, you fell in love with rugby early, but you didn't have kind of a real chance to pursue it at a high level, as you were like the only girl among 250 boys playing in Scotland, which is wild.

[A]

And you were the captain.

[D]

You were the captain.

[A]

Yeah. Yay.

[C]

That's crazy.

[D]

Now you're helping build the path for others. I would love to know from you what does that full circle moment feel like right now?

[C]

I think, you know, what the sport gave to me. I mean, I played it for five years from the age of seven to 12. And I think what Carly was talking about, that team building, I mean, even. Although I was the only girl and it was all boys. You know, how we created that unity with a, with each other was just so huge. And honestly, those days for me were, were all about resilience. I was playing rugby in Scotland and because I'm Scottish, in case you hadn't guessed, and, and it was cold, it was muddy, we weren't allowed to wear gloves, we weren't allowed to wear trousers. I mean, there was a lot of things like that. I mean, we're talking the 80s here and I didn't have changing rooms, I had to wash myself off in the bathroom, you know, so it just built this immense resilience. And I know that the sport of rugby can do that. Like, literally when you get knocked down, how do you get back up? Right. And I'm just so excited to see that grow for other girls, other women, so that they can develop the skills I've been lucky enough to develop. And that's helped me in my business and my film career and everything. Like, I've faced a lot of like, really tough times and I just draw upon those moments and interestingly, my husband was a, was a sports psychologist and he was into neuroscience. And in fact we wrote a book together called the Brave Athlete can the F Down and Rise the Occasion, which is all about this brain, mental model, you know, from a neuroscience perspective and why we have thoughts and feelings that we don't like and various other issues to do with endurance sport largely. But one of the things that he taught me was a part of your brain that sits behind your eyes called your anterior cingulate cortex, which processes emotional and physical pain. And they believe the science shows that it actually gets more dense, as in neuroplasticity, the more that we face adversity and continue to go, which is again, neuroplasticity. And so whenever you're having a tough moment, you're essentially brain training and it helps you the next time you face something tough. And I think the sport of rugby is just brilliant for that. You know, we're actually not just doing the physical stuff, right. We're building stronger brains as a consequence, so. And again, I, I faced a lot of obstacles to be able to play the sport when I was younger and it's just so amazing to see that that's, that's not the case for, for other girls.

[A]

Yeah. To find out where we've come, right. Especially you have been grinding it out. Talk about choosing a sport too, with your five time world champion and triathlete in triathlons as well. I was like, oh my gosh, I Know what got you into riding?

[C]

Yeah. So I studied. I was. Well, here's a funny thing. When I used to play rugby with the boys, I literally would be covered head to toe in mud. Wasn't able to shower because there was nowhere for me to shower. All the boys got to get all sparkling clean, not so much me. And then I would go to Bali in the afternoon covered in mud. So, you know, I've always been an artist and an athlete my whole life, and so studied my undergraduate and graduate theatre and film at the same time as being a professional triathlete. But here's the funny thing is when I started off in triathlon, I was very much on the road and in the Olympic development program. And that was all very sort of city centre. And I loved being. I loved getting dirty, I loved being out in nature. That's my thing. You know, I'm Scottish, I love the mountains. And so there's a type of triathlon called Xterra, which is all off road, so it's swimming, mountain biking and trail running. And I always say to everyone, it's like triathlon meets rugby. So that's my little quote, you know. So there we go. That's. I still feel like I'm a rugby player at heart. That's it. That's it.

[D]

I have a question for you, Carly, because I think that there's a notion in the world, not necessarily the women's sports world, but in the world that, you know, women and rugby potentially can't mix. Right. It's too physical. What about your brains? Like, can you. Can you. Can you respond to that?

[B]

Yeah, most of the time I say, watch me. But if I'm. If I'm talking to a parent who's contemplating getting their child started in rugby, like we. The thing about it is, I know so many men that grew up playing football and were not allowed to transition to rugby, because within rugby, there's such an onus on the safety and security of ourselves and. And each other. Of, hey, when you're coming in, think cheek to cheek. So I want to get my cheek in line with your hip because that's going to put me in the safest position. It's also going to put you in a safe position. We do a lot of neck strengthening, a lot of understanding of when you're falling, fall on your hard parts, your knee, your hip, your shoulder. We want to fall like this. Whatever it may be, that's just life. And I think it's the same within rugby of knowing what your limits are, not taking A chance when there's a chance. And I referee rugby within my local community and we practice, recognize and remove. So at the end of the day, it's really not this 16 year old girl's decision as to whether she gets to stay on the field or not. And for me as having concussions, hey, you have your whole life ahead of you. We can't see it in this moment. None of us are mature enough to make that decision then. So me as the adult and somebody that's been there, let's protect you because it's safer than sorry, you can go off, you can get evaluated. You have two days to decide whether you're facing symptoms. Like there are practices in place from the youngest level to the highest level in order to provide resources, safety, education to protect athletes to the best of their ability within this.

[D]

I love that you said that because I think it's really important that so many people talk about, you know, foot, like American football being like really dangerous. And you know, the pads that they wear in some ways makes an athlete feel invincible, superhuman and invincible. And so with rugby, I think that there's a lot more not just care for self, but also care for the opponent. Like you, you're not just trying to, to blow this person up, you're, you're really wanting this to be like. I think that that's really fascinating.

[B]

That's cool. At its, at its core, rugby is like certainly founded on respect. And unlike other sports, after every single match you go and share a meal with the team you just played.

[D]

Oh wow.

[B]

Where you have a social, like there's no. I have friends from all over the world. Yeah. So I was lucky. In high school, my team went abroad. Ireland, England and Wales. And then in college again, my program did the same thing. And girls that I played in high school in Wales, I played against in college. And like how cool. And like had Facebook and was able to be like, oh my gosh, we already somewhat know each other and if I ever came back again, it's so easy for me to reach out and connect because we've already shared not one, but two battles and then get to hash it out after the fact and get to know each other as humans off the field.

[C]

Yeah. And what is that? How does that transcend sport? Right. I mean we look at society right now in the polarization and if you have this belief, I can't possibly like you, associate with you. So these are just simple ideas that yeah, transcend the sport and their skills, their belief systems, their ways of operating in the world that are just. That can be implemented across everything. And I think that's the beauty of sport. And specifically, something like as physical as rugby, hey, listen, we can be essentially kind of beating the shit out of each other on the field, but know that that's kind of part of the sport and that's what we do, and it's meant with the greatest respect. And then we can still talk to each other afterwards. I mean, it's like a microcosm of how we should be operating.

[D]

That's right.

[A]

I think, too, when I think of rugby, you all to me seem like one of the most inclusive sports. And I know there was a statement that was put out recently by WER because of all of this talk about polarization, right. With Trump's executive order, which he signed last year. But now all these governing bodies and NGBs and the USOPC and the IOC are starting to implement this transgender ban for trans women competing on female athletic teams. And I'm not asking so much about legal specifics from you because I know you're not lawyers. And I'm more interested in. Because of the fact that I feel like the rugby community is so inclusive from a human perspective. For you both. What do you think about this? Because it's heartbreaking for a lot of female athletes.

[B]

It's just so disappointing that this is all coming truly from the very top down, and many people involved in this just have their hands tied. So it's really hard seeing how a number of people within my community and how upsetting this is across the board, because everybody is a rugby body. Rugby is for everyone. And now how do you move forward and be able to focus on sport when so many people are in it for that community that is now being almost tested at the seams here as to what, what are the values, what are our principles, how can we rise, move forward together in this without losing what our foundation is?

[A]

And Leslie, I'm sure for you too, as you sit on that board, how hard that must be, Because I'm hearing that from so many different sports as well.

[C]

How do you address the issue in a way that seems fair to everybody, you know, and respectful of everybody? And I think that that's the point, isn't it? There's got to be a solution. There's got to be a path so that nobody feels marginalized? And that's kind of the point. Everybody should have an opportunity or whether they're able bodied, not where they sit physically, not all of these things. It's inclusivity in the best Way possible, but still trying to be fair. It's like, it's. Yeah, it's an absolute challenge.

[D]

And it's just sad because the executive order that gets passed down, it's just threats, right? It's threats that the president is making to hold all of these leagues and NGBs accountable to something that's not actually his to do. So it's just. It's so disappointing because we're not scared. The women's sports world isn't scared of inclusivity. In fact, it's what we've been built on. Appreciate it so much that you guys sure could talk about it.

[A]

Here's the great news, though. You've got two huge events coming up. So you've got the Olympics, of course, which is the Sevens, and then you have the Women's Rugby World cup coming to the United States. Right. And in 2033. That is incredible.

[B]

I think it will be. And if we. The way the energy is behind it right now, imagine seven years down the line. I can't do math. But Australia between that. So it'll be Australia 2029, and then the US 2033. So if we just continue this momentum, and it's like these little girls now that have just started playing their careers by then can be in college and be in contention for spots within that. And how cool is that?

[C]

So cool.

[A]

Thank you both for taking the time to join us. May 2 party, people, is when this next season for women's elite rugby kicks off. Carly, who are you playing in that first game?

[B]

On May 2nd, we are in Sacramento versus the Bay, and all games will be streamed on the women's sports network.

[A]

Okay, right on. We'll have it all in the show notes as well. Thank you for my Pink Pony club. I'm gonna keep on dancing at the pink.

[D]

I'm glad that you didn't send me the pink one.

[C]

Thanks, guys.

[D]

White hat person.

[B]

I really debated what to get.

[D]

Party pose.

[A]

Yeah, she knew. She knew you weren't pink. All right, party pose on three. Whatever your favorite party pose is. One, two, three. I want to get out there and start tackling people. I don't know.

[D]

I don't think I want to start tackling people, but I want to watch this, like, because it's so. There's just so much power and intention. And now that I know that, like, the way that they go about it with. Is with utter respect for their bodies and also the bodies on the opposing team, like, that's. That's amazing to me.

[A]

I know. And then they go and eat with the opposing team after.

[D]

I know. And also there's so much, there's so much tactic. Like if you watch a rugby game, there's all this movement and people are making runs and when to make a run and who's making the run and tackling. Like, it's just, it's awesome. It's such a fun thing to watch.

[A]

I had so many questions, but I couldn't keep on all the questions. I was like, wait, I want to know why. I like why you kick it when you kick it. And if you. Is there offside? Is there an offside rule? And I don't know all these questions. We're gonna have to have them back on.

[D]

Totally.

[A]

All right, party people, don't forget to subscribe to the welcome to the party YouTube channel. Click that little bell icon so you can get updates when new episodes go live.

[D]

Yep. And if you take one minute, we would so appreciate it. If you can rate, leave a comment and subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to follow us on Instagram, YouTube and wherever you get your socials at. Welcome to the Party show where Julie, Billy and I will bring the party straight to your feed. You can also email us at party people questions gmail.com shout out to Kate Diaz for our theme music and also go watch this Friday in action tomorrow on Paramount plus and CBS Sports May 2nd. You can also get every game on Women's Sports network. The Team usa, the Eagles. They are in action tomorrow Friday and CBS Sports Network.

[A]

Right on, Jules.

[D]

You want to do an usa usa USA on three.

[A]

Put your paws in, party people. One, two, three. USA Pink Pony Club.

[D]

Welcome to the Party is an independent production brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. Initial Digital is our production partner and you can also watch our full conversations on the welcome to the party YouTube channel and follow us at welcome to the Party show on Instagram and TikTok. Thanks for listening.