The Best Life Lessons You’ll Ever Learn with Dr. Colleen Hacker

Summary

Welcome to the Party

Episode: The Best Life Lessons You’ll Ever Learn with Dr. Colleen Hacker

Release Date: January 1, 2026

Host: Treat Media (Abby Wambach, Julie Foudy, with special tribute by Billie Jean King)
Guest: Dr. Colleen “Flash” Hacker

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Episode Overview

Kicking off 2026, soccer legends Abby Wambach and Julie Foudy, along with iconic guest Dr. Colleen "Flash" Hacker, dive deep into conquering adulthood, the transition from elite athletics to everyday life, managing anxiety, navigating parenting in a gendered world, and fostering motivation. Dr. Hacker, a renowned mental skills coach, shares her wisdom gleaned over decades at the top of sport and performance psychology—offering practical tips, memorable metaphors, and transformative life lessons relevant far beyond the pitch. Special sentiments are shared from Billie Jean King, making this episode an empowering masterclass on thriving through change, self-compassion, and intentional living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Role Models & Before/After Moments (06:16 – 08:13)

• Dr. Hacker recounts the seismic impact the Billie Jean King vs. Bobby Riggs "Battle of the Sexes" had on her as a high schooler.
  • “I went to school the next day a different human being. That line in the sand for me was the line in the sand. No hyperbole. She changed the course of my life of possibilities. And more importantly, that match gave me hope and permission.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [07:17]
  • Theme: The transformative power of seeing someone break barriers and how it shapes your view of yourself and your possibilities.

2. Transitioning from Elite Athlete to 'Normal' Adulthood (11:03 – 14:40)

• Abby explains her struggle with leaving behind the measurable wins of athletics.
  • “How do you win if there’s no scoreboard and the game is never over?” – Abby Wambach [11:00]
• Dr. Hacker explains:

  • The rewarding metrics and dopamine hits of sport disappear in daily adult life.

  • You must hunt for your own wins and recognize successes, however small.

  • Accepting that “finishing” in the way athletes are used to is not available in typical adulthood.

  • “Dopamine bathing our brains in dopamine is real. When athletes retire, it’s like everything seems stupid and boring and pointless... It’s hard to get these dopamine hits that scoring headers provides or winning a World Cup provides." – Dr. Colleen Hacker [13:15]

Skeeball vs. Juggling Metaphor (14:40 – 16:15)

• Dr. Hacker recommends not trying to juggle a million things at once (it’s endless); treat each new challenge like a new skeeball: one at a time, focus on the moment, and then roll the next.
  • “Be where your feet are. Do now, well. Worrying about what you should have been doing, what’s coming up, it siphons off our best performance right now.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [15:39]

3. Rewiring Self-Worth & Productivity (16:16 – 18:45)

• Abby shares her journey in shifting her basis of self-esteem from physical output and suffering to more diverse, internal measures.
  • “I don’t want to be in a position of needing to suffer in order to feel good.” – Abby Wambach [17:00]
• Celebrate small and big wins—take deliberate moments (even 10 seconds!) to let those feelings of success sink in.
  • “Accepting adulthood on adulthood’s terms is the more difficult task for me to do, I think.” – Abby Wambach [18:33]
• Dr. Hacker underscores the need for intentional resets and being an active agent in your own evolution.

4. Movement, Purpose, and Wellbeing (21:42 – 22:21)

• Physical engagement isn’t just for athletes—purposeful movement is key for everyone’s wellbeing.
  • “I want purposeful movement to the extent that people are capable of for everyone on planet Earth... The more sedentary we are, the more we lack fulfillment, accomplishment, agency, and meaning.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [21:42]

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5. Performance Anxiety & the Gift of 'Butterflies' (23:47 – 24:59)

• Julie recounts Dr. Hacker's advice reframing pre-game “butterflies” as a sign of importance, not as a threat.
  • “Do not ever wish the butterflies to leave... You get the butterflies because what you’re doing matters.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker (via Julie Foudy) [23:54]
  • "Never wish the butterflies away. Just teach them to fly in formation.” – Dr. Hacker (shared by Julie) [23:55]
• Rubber Band Snap Technique: Using a physical cue (snapping a hairband) to interrupt negative spirals and refocus with a positive replacement thought.
  • “You control that... And it could be pulling up your socks or, you know, tugging on your sleeve or fixing your ponytail.” – Julie Foudy [24:27]
• The lesson: Pressure is a privilege—if you never feel nerves, what you’re doing may not matter.

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6. Parenting, Gender, and Motivation (26:20 – 54:10)

a. Nature, Nurture, and Gendered Expectations (29:16 – 38:01)

• Dr. Hacker explains that differences within genders outweigh those between genders, and warns against projecting your own hopes or baggage onto your children.
• We live in a gendered society; adults start programming gendered expectations before children are born.
  • “We do live in a gendered society. Acting like we don’t is putting your head in the sand.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [32:02]
  • “We raise our daughters and we love our sons.” – Michelle Obama quote, shared by Abby [37:01]
• Modeling matters as much as what we say.
  • “What we do speaks so loudly, nobody can hear what we’re saying.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [39:13]

b. Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Motivation (40:13 – 54:10)

• Abby and Julie discuss wrestling with motivating vs. over-coaching their children, especially as former pros.
• Dr. Hacker emphasizes self-determination theory—children need:
  1. Autonomy: Choice and agency over their pursuits.
  2. Mastery: The feeling of developing expertise or competence.
  3. Connectedness: A sense of belonging and being supported.
  • “Everybody can’t be the best on the team, but everyone can be the best for the team.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [48:53]
• If a child truly loves something, you won’t have to push them—they’ll find ways to pursue it wholeheartedly.
  • “When they love something and it’s from them, nothing will keep them from it... If you’re having to push, seriously, for me, that’s already a red flag.” – Dr. Colleen Hacker [52:08]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of BJK’s victory:

  • "I went to school the next day a different human being." – Dr. Colleen Hacker [07:17]

• On adulting and crossing things off the list:

  • "Let me be a spoiler alert. Every night that the three of us go to bed, there is more work to be done. Like, that’s not a thing. Like, let go of that." – Dr. Colleen Hacker [13:10]

• On the importance of movement:

  • "The more sedentary we are in thought and action, I think it’s related to lack of a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment and agency and meaning." – Dr. Colleen Hacker [21:51]

• On reframing nerves:

  • "Never wish the butterflies away. Just teach them to fly in formation." – Dr. Colleen Hacker (as recalled by Julie) [23:55]

• On motivation:

  • "If you’re having to push [your children], seriously, for me, that’s already a red flag." – Dr. Colleen Hacker [53:23]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:16 – 08:13]: Billie Jean King story and the power of role models
• [11:03 – 14:40]: Transitioning from athlete to “civilian” & finding new metrics for success
• [15:39]: Skeeball metaphor for managing tasks and focus
• [17:00 – 18:33]: Resetting self-worth and celebrating small wins
• [21:42]: Arguments for movement and active agency
• [23:47 – 24:59]: The “butterflies” mental technique—positive reframing and physical cues
• [29:16 – 32:06]: Gender socialization and unique family/parenting dynamics
• [39:13]: “What we do speaks so loudly, nobody can hear what we're saying.” Modeling values in parenting
• [43:11 – 55:07]: Deep dive into motivation, pushing kids, self-determination theory (autonomy, mastery, connectedness)

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Tone & Show Highlights

• Warm, candid, inspirational, and often peppered with humor, the episode feels like an empowering team huddle.
• Memorable storytelling, particularly Dr. Hacker’s analogies (skeeball, the clarinet story) and practical advice.
• Honest vulnerability from Abby and Julie, modeling the courage to be in-process and open to learning.

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Final Takeaways

• Adulthood may lack the clear wins of elite sport, but joy and pride are accessible through intentional presence, movement, and self-recognition.
• Nerves are a sign of meaning—don’t wish them away, but manage them with intention.
• In parenting, nurture autonomy, help kids find their mastery, and foster a sense of belonging.
• Real success and fulfillment come through ongoing self-discovery—celebrate small wins, stay in motion, and let each metaphorical skeeball roll in its own right.

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Mic Drop Wisdom:
"You have a part to play in your life and you actively engage in resetting. How few people reset?" – Dr. Colleen Hacker [18:58]

"Teach the butterflies to fly in formation." – Dr. Colleen Hacker (shared by Julie) [23:55]

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Next Episode Teaser:
Julie and Abby tease future appearances, including a full episode with Billie Jean King herself—don’t miss it!

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Transcript

[A]

It's going to sound flip. Welcome to adulthood. It is extraordinary to be an elite athlete. But there are benefits that come from it, and those benefits are removed in adulthood. Dopamine bathing our brains in dopamine is real. I want purposeful movement for everyone on planet Earth. Or are those butterflies a sign that it's game day? Let's go, baby. We do live in a gendered society. Acting like we don't is putting your head in the sand. Everything doesn't have to be do or die. The best ever. And a story might drop.

[B]

Attention, the party is about to commence.

[A]

Welcome to the party.

[C]

What's up, party people? More importantly, happy New Year, party people. Oh, my gosh. I'm Julie Foudy.

[B]

And I'm Abby Wambach. Happy New year, folks.

[C]

It's so great to be into 2026 and ABS. As I look back on last year, I don't. I don't know how many times I do this, but it's often, very often, where I'll be like, what would Colleen Hacker do in that situation? What would Flash say? What would Flash do? I call her Flash because she has this knack for shining a bright light on everything. So that has been her nickname forever. This is the woman that worked with our national team for many years as our mental skills coach and helped us and win the 96 Olympics, 99 World Cup, 2004 Olympics. I mean, you go through so. So she has this fabulous knack for bringing clarity to things. And we decided kind of a laughter permitted days shout out to our dope village that as we wrap our head around 2026, we should try and touch on some of the different issues we're dealing with in this past year in hopes of also helping our party people.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, look, we're both dealing with a lot all the time. And sometimes it's important to ask somebody who can give us greater perspective and the amazing gifts and Colleen's wisdom. I remember how important it was for me to just have kind of a mental skills psychology coach on staff so that I could go to and express myself to. And by the way, she's not just a mental skills coach for sports. Like, she's a life coach for us even now. Like, she takes our calls. She's incredible.

[C]

Okay, party people, now to the partiest part of our party. Dr. Colleen Hacker has been to six Olympic Games as part of the US coaching staff and more than 13 World Championship events across multiple sports. She's coached and mentored at the highest level across soccer and hockey. And field hockey and just about every other sport you can imagine. She helped guide our US women's national team to. To the 96 Olympic gold, 99 World cup title, another gold in Athens in 2004. And she literally has been this steady mental skills whisperer behind athletes who have stood on podiums all over the world. Her work has been featured everywhere. Cnn, New York Times, espn, the Olympic Channel. She's advised everyone from pro athletes to Fortune 500 companies to the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee. And when she's not doing that, she's shaping the next gener generation. As a professor of sport and exercise psychology at Pacific Lutheran University, she's a trailblazer. She oozes wisdom, and she is one of the most respected voices in performance psychology. She's also a great friend to Abby and myself. The kind of person who just makes everything brighter. Hence the Flash nickname, as I told you about. And honestly, we brought her on because we have questions, we have big ones as we head into the new year. So let's get into it. Dr. Colleen Flash Hacker. Welcome to the party.

[A]

Welcome to. You guys are bringing the heat already. Let's go. That introduction makes me want to take a nap, though. You know, it's like, holy cow, pal. I do have the best job in America, and I'm aware of it and I'm grateful for it, and so thank you. It's wonderful to be here with you, too.

[C]

Oh, yes. We miss you. We miss you. Okay. Before we get into it, though, we. We do have a little surprise for you. Knowing how much of a Billie Jean King fan you are and that she couldn't be here today. So the Kinger wanted to give a little. Little love.

[D]

Colleen, or as Julie has told me to call you, Flash. I want to thank you so much for joining us to welcome to the party. It's crazy on the set.

[A]

Have fun.

[D]

But anyway, you are an innovator and a game changer, and I'm just so happy they were able to attend our party today and give us all the insights. And I always say that champions must be physically, mentally, emotionally prepared for anything. And you are at the center of it all. So I hope to see you in person really soon. Thanks for being on our welcome to the party.

[A]

Who's the best? Okay. There is no greater gift. Please let me tell. Please tell. Let me tell BJK story as I'm wiping tears.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I cannot thank you for that. That gift.

[C]

She tried so hard to be on today, too, and you just couldn't make it work. Yeah, Definitely tell Us.

[A]

I'll shorten it. And I've read that she hears this from people all the time. So let me just add this, but I'm a teenager at the battle of the sexes. I'm in high school, so, yeah, I'm Grandma Moses here. I'm in high school. This is the 70s. I don't have to set it up, but I'm going to set it up. I cannot tell you the world that I lived in. You know, you were. Yeah, I just watch Mad Men if you want to know what world I lived in. It's indescribable and incomprehensible. And this build up, you have to understand. And I know both of you know this. There had been previous battle of the sexes that didn't go well. And it just made the point and made the point and made the point. Like, stick a fork in, you know, turn the oven off, it's done. And I'm just like, ugh, you know, I need. I need something. This little girl in Lidditz, Pennsylvania. And I'm just gonna end it by saying, I literally still have tears. I went to school the next day a different human being. Yes, I was a different human being. That line in the sand for me was the line in the sand. No hyperbole. She changed the course of my life of possibilities. And more importantly, that that match gave me hope and permission. So I. The depth of my gratitude is beyond words.

[B]

Yep. We in my family, we call it the before and after moment. I love this.

[A]

It's so good line in the sand for me. You could not have gifted me anything more special. Is there a way to put that on video loop that I can.

[B]

Yes, we'll send it to you.

[C]

We'll send it to you. And here's the thing. She's like, oh, my gosh, I so want to. I've heard so much about Colleen Hacker. I so want to be on. And so we're going to. She's like, tell her she has to come on again. And I was like, I will, I will. So you're. This is all just a ploy to get you back again. Like, so we can have.

[A]

Where's the button? Where's the button? How fast do I press the button?

[B]

Okay, so Hacker, Julie and I, we want to ask you some questions that we are dealing with personally in our own lives that maybe you would be able to walk us through and help us get some takeaways, have some. Tell us some skills that we might be able to input into our daily lives. And so I'M going to go first. Since you were our mental skills psychologist for the national team, you know that I am a former athlete, and you also know that I prided myself on winning and completing things, right? Like, as an athlete, you get your workout from the strength and conditioning coach and you got to check off all the, the boxes. You know, you got to complete every set, you have to complete every rep from your conditioning coaches, you have to complete every sprint, whether you're with a team or you're at home, right? So there's a lot of things to strive for, a lot of goals that are set and there's intentions laid, and you meet them like, that's, that's like the way that I have learned how to be a person right now in my retirement, I find in business and in my personal life, I. I finish every day feeling a little incomplete. What are some tips you can give me about how to, I don't know, finish a work day or a family day with. There's always so much to do, so much more to do that I can't cross everything off on a. On a. Any given day. And like, and for me, what happens is I get a little anxiety when I cannot finish the day, when I cannot cross that final thing off and I have to push it to tomorrow. And sometimes that comes out sideways. Sometimes I get a little cranky, Sometimes I get a little bit short and impatient. How do you win if there's no scoreboard, right? Like, how do you know you're done if you're never done? How do you win if there's no scoreboard and the game is never over?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's gonna sound flip, and I don't mean it that way, but welcome to adulthood. I really mean that. I really mean that. But I mean that sincerely, not dismissively. ABS is. Being an elite athlete is a path very few can follow. You know, you're up at 6, 7 in the morning, you're turning in well after dark. I used to joke that one National Team day equals four Earth days. For mere mortals, it is extraordinary to be an elite athlete. But there are benefits that come from it, and those benefits are removed in adulthood. So let me make the bridge. When you finish a workout, that's a satisfying feeling. It's like, did it, Nailed it. There's metrics. I was a half a second faster. I ran one more. I'm benching a greater amount. All my first touches. There's inherent rewards built in to elite sport. Those are gone in adulthood.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And so my Response to you is. And, Jules, you and I have talked about this. I believe strongly that we have to create our own wins. We have to recognize successes that we've had. I don't want to get into the weeds, but dopamine bathing our brains in dopamine is real. Like, when athletes retire, it's like everything seems stupid and boring and pointless and, oh, let's go to the grocery store, Let me vacuum the house. It's hard to get these dopamine hits that scoring headers provides or winning a World cup provides. So I'm going to offer a couple of suggestions. Number one, be on the hunt for wins. Things that you did, things that you did. And you can't fabricate it. Like, you have to genuinely feel it, Abby. Like, that was a good meeting. Like, that was a good contact that I had that. Let me. Let me be a spoiler alert. Every night that the three of us go to bed, there is more work to be done. Like, that's not a thing. Like, let go of that. Simple to say, but finishing in the way that you did as an elite athlete is not available to you in adulthood. It's just not available. There's the next thing. So do now, well, sequentially, be whatever that meeting is, that family time is that golf course time, that podcast time, it's sequential. And the other metaphor I use, I hear this from, you know, parents all the time, adults all the time. I'm juggling so much. I'm juggling so much. It's like, stop juggling. Stop juggling. Because there's always going to be more bowling pins or balls. And it sounds. I don't know if this sounds silly, but I believe it in my soul. Do either of you remember the game skee ball?

[C]

Oh, yeah, I love skee ball. Bounces up to the rings. Yes.

[A]

Yeah, to the rings. And there's like. There's like Loserville on the outside, and then there's like, 120, 30. Okay, fun fact. What's the middle ring? What's that worth?

[B]

100?

[A]

Yeah. 50 or 100, depending on. On where you are. What I say to people is, play skeeball. Stop juggling. Like, you have one ball. Guess what you have next? Another one. Each one is its own role. Juggling. It's like, oh, my God, I can't. I can't live in this juggle world. Nobody can play skeeball. And as long as you're feeding at quarters, I'm going to. Here's your quiz. As long as you're feeding at quarters, Although now it's probably $20. But as long as you're feeding at quarters. What comes down the side? What comes down the side?

[B]

Balls are coming.

[C]

Yeah, more balls.

[A]

More balls. So be where your feet are. Do now. Well, worrying about what you should have been doing, what's coming up, it siphons off our best performance right now. When you're laying on the couch snuggling. Lay on the couch and snuggle. When you're in a power business meeting, she ra put on that power business. But you want to sequentially roll skeeballs. Does that resonate at all, any of that?

[B]

Yeah, it does. It's just like, I think one of the things that I'm learning to accept because I did early on had to re. I had to rewire my brain around how I was going to build my self esteem because so often I attributed the physical exertion and suffering to a higher level of self esteem. So I did this 18 months where I wasn't allowed to suffer physically. So I would go on walks and I would go very light lifting and yoga and meditating. And I would have to really work on, okay, how am I going to build my self esteem within myself? And what's interesting is now I'm. I'm beyond it and I'm doing a little bit more every once in a while, but I don't need to feel because it was like the same was like when I suffered. The more I suffered, the better I felt about myself. And I didn't want that to be. I don't want to be in a. In a position of needing to suffer in order to feel good. And so after doing all of that work, one of the things that I'm trying to accept, I think, is that there is always more work to be done and that the being adulting is very difficult. Right. And taking the wins. I think that that's really important is to really. Because I don't celebrate the wins enough, you know, like, and I have to remind all of my family, like, we've got to celebrate. Like, we've got to like, take a moment, even if it's five seconds, to be like, wow, that was amazing. Like, Jules and I had to go do a business meeting yesterday up in Northern California. And I felt so good about that. Like, I just was like, we did so great up there. And I felt awesome to be with my friend. And so before I went to sleep last night, I like, I actually like thought about it for like solid 10 seconds. And I let. And I don't Know if this is true, but I let the, I kind of let some dopamine get released into my brain about it. Like it, there's like a control, like a lever that I'm like, oh yeah. Like, and I felt my body get warm and tingly and my heart fill up and I just woke up feeling like really strong. So accepting adulthood on adulthood's terms is the more difficult task for me to do, I think.

[A]

And abs, I want to pick up on two things that you said because I would. I don't want listeners to miss it. You understood that you needed to be an active agent in a reset.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean you're saying it like you know, so I had to reset. You're saying it like it's this normal thing. And what a lot of people do, sadly for many years of their life, they live in this place of being underwhelmed, of being disappointed, of being other than who they used to be because they didn't reset. Like, I don't know if you know this, but I used to crawl when I was a baby and now I'm bipedal. Look at me go. I can walk on two legs and I use that, you know, in humor. But who we were and who we are, it's one of the reasons I love the title of Michelle Obama's book becoming. That we are becoming. And so your awareness, your recognition that you have a part to play in your life and that you actively engaged in resetting. How few people reset? They're more comfortable just talking about it's just not fun anymore. I'm not engaged anymore. I don't feel important anymore. I'm not having. Boy, they can wax eloquent on what's wrong and what's missing. Yoo hoo. Reset. Reset. And that requires awareness, investment, time, time. You spent your life becoming the best in the world at your craft. How good are you going to be at resetting right away? What's the answer?

[B]

Not good. Terrible. Not terrible. Ansy felt bad. I actually felt worse. It was like I felt like I had lower self esteem because I was rewiring myself. I was resetting. Yeah.

[C]

It is so interesting when you talk about how hard you. That you needed to work out that hard to feel like you were productive. And it just triggered something in me because I, I have that same reaction. I've never put it, it's never occurred to me that that's probably why because I've been doing that my whole life. But like I get really crabby when I can't do something and Exert myself physically. Right. Like, I don't get that dopamine hit, but I never thought of it as suffering. I just thought of it as, like, I'm a productive human being. I'm. I feel good. I feel better, but that's it. I was like, oh, my God. That's why I get so crabby. I don't feel like I'm actually productive anyways.

[A]

I want purposeful movement to the extent that people are capable of for everyone on planet Earth. I really mean that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we are meant to move. I think we are meant to engage in the world. I think we are meant to be active agents in our lives. And the more sedentary we are in thought and action, I think it's related to lack of a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment and agency and meaning. That's my. Yeah, that's my two cents on that. I think we are meant to move.

[C]

Yeah, I agree. You stop your rot. You got to keep moving. Okay. Flash gave me the best advice ever when I was on the National Team, and I just want to share this, and then I'll get to the question I had for you, but. So when I was playing on the National Team in my early days, I was so nervous when I knew someone was in the stands or it was a big game or. And this isn't even just the early days. This is, like 10 years in. And I was like, what the hell? Why do I still have these butterflies? And so when I'd get the butterflies, I would get pissed because I was like, I'm 10 years into this adventure. How am I still freaking out? Like, if a sponsor was there to watch. Right, because you needed money, obviously, because we weren't getting paid to play, really. So I went to her one day, and I said, look, I'm just. I'm over the butterflies. I'm so tired of the butterflies because every time I get the butterflies, I freak out. I go into this downward spiral. And she, like, stopped me immediately and was like, stop right there. Do not ever wish the butterflies to leave. And I was like, oh, no. I wish the butterflies should be gone. She's like, no, no, no. Do you get the butterflies when you're doing the dishes? I was like, no. Do you get the butterflies when you're, you know, just driving to run errands in the car? I was like, no. She's like, ex. Because none of that shit matters when.

[A]

You get the butterflies.

[C]

That's because what you're doing matters.

[A]

Do you want to be doing things.

[C]

In life that Matter.

[A]

And I was like, yes.

[C]

She's like, so never wish the butterflies away. Just teach them to fly in formation.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

Bam.

[C]

Boom. Exactly. I was like, oh my gosh, yes. But how in the hell do I do that? Because I can't. They're like bumping into each other. It's chaos. And so she taught me this incredible technique where back in the day you used to be able to wear a headband. I have one on right now around my wrist. And I don't know if nowadays players can wear them, but like a hair tie? Yeah, exactly, a hair tie. And she said, you know, it can be any physical response when you, the butterflies get going and you're having this mental reaction, but this physical response. And she said like, snap your hair band. I see you have a hairband on your wrist, you snap your hair band, which is a physical response to mentally stop you from going into this, this downward spiral and to basically to snap out of it. Because you can only have one thought in your brain at a time. So replace it with a positive one in that moment and stop that downward spiral. Like you control that. And I was like, what? I do? She's like, you know, so. And it could be pulling up your socks or, you know, tugging on your sleeve or fixing your ponytail. Whatever your physical response, you know, that is the moment you are going to stop the downward spiral. You're going to turn into a positive and replace that thought with a positive one. And that shit worked. Imagine that, Flash. So I would be on the field like snapping my wrist, snapping, snapping, snapping. But it did. And so the amazing thing is, is that I learned that the butterflies were actually a gift. And when I got the butterflies, and the thing that I told Flash recently is that I haven't finished the story to her is that she doesn't know that this just didn't help me in soccer. This helped me in my broadcasting career literally every day. Because when you're a young broadcaster and you go on air and you don't know what you're going to say, maybe, or technically, like things aren't working out and things are going awry, you kind of freak out. And I remember freaking out and going, wait a second, I know how to deal with this. I can just snap my wrist, right? Butterflies are a good thing. And so it helped me so much in everyday life and broadcasting in my career. And I see it now as a parent and my kids, right? And it's, it's, it comes out very differently. Like for my 18 year old daughter Izzy, who I think. And I said to Colleen, it's very different for girls versus boys. I have one of each 16 year old boy, 18 year old daughter is, you know, Izzy exerts and expresses that pressure verbally like that. It causes her some anxiety similar to what I did with Colleen. Whereas my boy is like, I'm good, mom. I'm him. Literally what he says, I'm him. And I said, why is that? And how do we as parents approach that for girls? Vers boys and the difference in how they deal with pressure.

[B]

Good question.

[C]

Help Colleen.

[A]

I love that you remember that story, Jules. I do.

[C]

Oh, I tell this story all the time and give you credit for like, yeah, just go to Dr. Kleenhacker if you want to deal with that.

[A]

Yeah. It, it is perspective and you have control over the perspective. Are those butterflies a sign that, that you should worry? Are those butterflies a sign that you should feel pressure? Or are those butterflies a sign that it's game day? Let's go, baby. Or as Abs knows lfg. Like lfg Butterflies. Lfg, man, it's go time. Those butterflies are a gift. They say you care. They say it matters. This is what all that pain and grind and 200 days on the road is about. And repetitions and physio and on and on. It's game day, baby. So that's a sign that you're ready, that you welcome those butterflies. I'll tell you, it's a sad day in an athlete's life when they don't feel them anymore. That's kind of when athletes start knowing it's time, Abby. You know, it's time. You can't. You try to generate it. You talk yourself into it. You, you know, explain. Right? You can't fake it. You can't fake that feeling. It's. It's a beautiful lfg. Let's go. Opportunity. I want to say two things before I comment. Number one is that within gender differences, all the differences of all the females in the world are greater than the between gender differences. So that's the first thing I want. Not like, you know, men are from, you know, Pluto and women or whatever.

[B]

That book is Mars and Venus.

[A]

So the difference. Do you know what I'm saying? That within gender differences are vast. And the overlap, if I was doing, I'll do it with my finger. If I was doing bell shaped curves, like here's male, here's female, way more in common than different. So thumbs up on that. Do you guys understand what I'm saying? Secondly, understand that two or five children raised in the same house by the same parent. The same parents or the same significant others are as different as night and day. Where'd that one come from? Families say, like, my one is this and my other one is that. And the third one is, you know, in Argentina somewhere, backpacking. So the same kids raised in the same environment are very different. And in my mind, I'm connecting threads from what maybe you or the audience thinks are disparate conversations. But this is where you have to update. Who is this child? And there's a whole lot of parental transference going on in the world right now where we are living out all of our adult baggage, emotions, unfulfilled dreams. You guys know what I'm talking about. And we are going to benefit our children by giving them everything that we learned and wish we know. Listen, sports fans, there's no easy button for that. It's called parental transference. Your children are not you. They are not going to heal you. They are not going to live out. Oh, here's this wisdom about strength training that I wish I had known that I'm going to. The teacher appears when the student is ready. And so, believe it or not, I'm getting there. Jules. So the first thing I want to say is, you know, within gender differences are greater than between. And two people in the exact same environment have very different goals, aspirations, dreams, proclivities, all of those. And we've got to be responsive to the child we have, not the one that we. Check the box. I'd like this child to be 6:2 with brown hair. Right. You're parenting the child you have. So that's the first thing I want to say. And I feel on firm ground as a social scientist there. Now, we do live in a gendered society. Acting like we don't is putting your head in the sand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

First question. Is it a boy or a girl? We don't say. Does it have 10 fingers and toes plus one extra protrusion? Right. We want to know about is there an extra protrusion or not? You kind of get what I'm saying there, right? Is it a boy or a girl? One of my colleagues, Dr. Chris Moon, studied third trimester prenatal conversations that the adults have with babies aren't even born yet.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And we speak very differently when we know it's a boy versus a girl. And then we don't understand why girls are more verbal and process oriented. Well, you created it. Hubba bubba, so bask in the glory.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Guys, get what I'm saying at all? I want to pause, but I want to get into what I care about. And, Abby, you're going to know this from our work in your corporate business that you and I intersected on. I do want to address attributions because it's hurting girls and women, and there are gender differences and attributions. But let me pause. Would either of you like to come into. Both of you have, right, you have multiple children, right? Two or more who have different genders. What say you about between gender differences? And what say you about people raised in the same household? I'd love for you to weigh in.

[C]

Go on, Abs. It's so interesting.

[B]

Yeah. So we've got three. We've got the oldest who identifies as a boy, and two girls who's 19 and 17, who both identify as girls, women. And until they tell us differently. And, yeah, they're all very different. I think that. That they. I think it's very common. Even in the. The family I was raised in, I, like, looked out on the land in the Sahara, at the safari, and I was like, I'm going to be different, right? So it's like, it was like a conscious choice. I wanted to have some differences, but inherently, there are some similarities. And I think in regards to culture, I think a reason why boys are, like, it's fine is because the world has been telling them from the time that they were born that boys are not allowed to have expressive feelings, that boys are not allowed to express those feelings, that they need to deal and be strong and brave and protect the family. And so nothing can be wrong ever. And. And so these are the things that start developing inside boys and girls. And this is whether it's, like, expressive or not, they're allowed to be more expressive about their feelings. And it's not that boys don't want to be. They just have been kind of cultured out of. They've been shamed out of it in a way. And so talking about the full humanity of a girl versus a boy growing up because. And by the way, girls are not allowed to express their full humanity in terms of their masculinity and going out, because we all are. We all have both inside of us, right? Like, but we're not allowed to express parts of ourselves. So I think, yeah, that's kind of my. My family.

[C]

Yeah. Jules, I. I just. Just this yesterday, perfect example, right? This week is Izzy is doing her finals at college, and I have said to her, like, yes, grades matter, but, like, you're in college, like, no one's really checking unless you're going on to another school, right? I have to say this to her so she doesn't stress out about school and grades. I'm like, you're there to, like, enjoy it, right? Like, yes, you want to do well. Of course you want to do well, but let's not stress about it. Like, we stressed about school, grades and getting into college, right? So I was basically saying, like, stop. Stop studying. Like, you're fine. You're gonna be just fine. Whereas with my 16 year old, I'm like, please study.

[A]

Sit down. Can you please take it a little more seriously?

[C]

I just need you to be a little. Because he's like, I'd be like, how the test goes. I aced it.

[A]

And he didn't ace it, right?

[C]

Like, I aced it. I'm fine. I'm good.

[A]

I think you're.

[C]

You're not really. You're not. Right? Like, you're. Everything's hovering at, like, 87 and now.

[A]

You'Re fighting to get into an A.

[C]

So, like, so I. It's just. It fascinates me. Same family, same parents.

[B]

Can I say one thing? So Michelle Obama said this beautiful quote recently, and it floored me. She said, we raise our daughters, us mothers, we raise our daughters and we love our sons.

[C]

I heard that.

[B]

And I thought, oh, that's right. And there's this inherent belief inside of me as the mother of these kids that boys can take care of themselves. And there's this inherent belief inside me that I need to teach my girls how to be a woman. And. And that's not right. That's not right. We have to say to Chase and say to our sons, hey, can you go wash the dishes? And don't always make them do the more masculine role of, like, taking the garbage out or whatever. It might be like teaching them and showing them what it is to express their full humanity of themselves, even some of the feminine parts. Right. Sorry. I. I just. I love that it's.

[A]

I think that's important. I love Yogi Berra quotes because they're so hilarious. They, like, make no sense. You know, he's the one, former Major league baseball manager, hall of Fame, MLB guy. He'd shake the opponents, the. The opponent. Opponent's general manager's hand and go, may the winner emerge victorious. Right? Like, when you come to a fork in the road, take it anyway. He has just funny Yogi isms, but he said, you can observe a lot by watching. It's the same thing. But Abby that's what you're talking about. We say we're doing all these things with our children, but are we modeling it? Are we expecting it? Are we holding them accountable? Do we have the same challenges, expectations? Or do we call, I'll do the dishes, I'll do the cooking, I'll do the cleanup. Do we call that love? Right. Do you see what I'm saying? Adults have all kinds of great sounding synonyms for what they're doing. But are we modeling? Right. Both children or both genders or multiple genders, however people identify? I just think what we do speaks so loudly, nobody can hear what we're saying. I'm just really big on fostering intrinsic motivation. When people are intrinsically motivated, we don't have to push them. We don't have to come up with rewards and strategies to get them up in the morning. When kids want to do something, the parents don't have to set things, three alarms to make sure they're up and then come in their room to. If you're having to set three alarms and you're waking up your child to do something, yoo hoo. I don't think they want to do it. Like, I fly out tomorrow morning, I'm going to set two alarms and my phone's going to be there because I want to make this flight. People will find a way to do what they want to do.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it kind of leads to this next question that I want to.

[C]

I was just gonna say it's perfect.

[B]

Yeah. Glennon and I have been, we've really been trying to like, sideline our own selves. Because when you're a successful person and you've done a lot of really cool shit in the world, there is an ego to that. Like, I kind of have this thing figured out, right? Like, this is. I. I'm gonna have some really good wisdom to teach our children so that they could become really. And be successful. Right. And so we are constantly in conversation around checking to make sure that we are not parenting through our ego. And we are actually showing up for our kids in a way that is. Is in service of them. Right. Not in service of them becoming anything. Right. Like giving them the environment to become the people that they are meant to become on in their own way. So this intrinsic motivation is something that I am constantly checking myself for because. And Julie, you might be able to relate, like, especially with our daughters playing soccer, we have the literal experience of knowing literally what this person might need to do in order to achieve whatever the said dream has been getting into college or playing on an elite club team, maybe one day playing professional. But here's the problem that I'm struggling with because. And I have chosen to prioritize the mother child relationship with my kid instead of like coach athlete relationship. There's a lot of conversation about parenting gently and you know, people throw around the word like about not causing trauma by pushing your kids too much. And the word trauma gets used a lot. And. And so I think that that has prevented me in some ways from pushing my kid in a way that I know that I needed in order to. To achieve the level that I achieved. Right. Because we want this motivation to come from inside of them. But I do wonder sometimes if that. If that might not give Emma, my youngest, who plays soccer, the advantage that I know that she would have if I would just say the thing or go and tell her and write out a training plan for her like she's about to go to College and play D1 for Jerry Smith at Santa Clara. I'm so proud of her and happy for her and it has nothing to do with me. She's done it all herself. And I think that that is important. And I swear I'm going to be done in a second. But I wonder and I worry had I been. Had I done better by her if I pushed her a little harder? Because as a parent, I don't know when to push our athletes sometimes and when to just be a soft place to land for them.

[A]

There's not an answer, but there is guidance. And I think of parenting like I do coaching, like I do relationship ing. I made up a word is there is an art in science and what it's not just opinions or feelings. And I hear a lot of that we've found, you know, I think you know our views. There is a ton of science and data. If I'm going to do something important, the first thing I do is read and learn. That's all that I know what do to. To say. I view it as my responsibility. I don't phone a friend or go to Google you or AI. Like, I read and I. And I learn and I want to know the science and the evidence. It's not boring. It's really cool stuff. And then you blend that with the art. The art meaning this child, this family, this circumstances, this cultural milieu, this whatever it might be. So I think that's really important. The one thing that I would say to both of you or to the audience is that children want your love and approval. Children want you to be proud of Them. And I think parents get confused. They're like, well, you know, she loves bowling. Well, he loves baseball. Does he love baseball? Because you love baseball. And then he sees you being happy when he's loving baseball. Like, you've got to tease it out a little bit. No, no, no. She wants to bowl. She asked to bowl. She's happy when she's bowling. Do you guys get what I'm saying at all?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So no parent goes, yeah, I'm only going to love you if you bowl. No parent is going to say that. That's living freely in society. So. But parents will go, they want to, they want to, they want to. And I'm like, hold on a second, right? Do they want you happy? Like, do they get the feeling, oh, I love you no matter what, you just love me a little more when I do these other things. That comes through. That comes through. It doesn't have to be expressed. So sort of check that. Do they really want to or do they want your happiness, your pride in them, your approval? I don't have a litmus test for that, but I think those questions should be asked. I just hear far too many parents saying they want it. I ask them they want it. Because there's only one answer. Let me ask both of you. Before a game. Before a game, your head coach says to you, are you ready?

[B]

No.

[A]

How many answers? I'm not ready.

[C]

No, Coach, you shouldn't play me.

[A]

Yeah. You feeling confident today? These are questions where there's only one answer. Look, you don't have to play if you don't want to. No, I want to play. I really. They only have one answer, right? So let me. Let me offer a framework because this is. This is my gold standard. For those of you that are academics out there or you want to read more, it comes from DC And Ryan. It's called Self determination Theory, sdt. Long story short, all human beings have three basic motives. Autonomy, Doing things that we want to do. Rather than being controlled or told what to do, we want autonomy. I'm going to connect what I said about Billie Jean King as a teenager. I didn't have autonomy. And let me just tell a quick story. I came home in ninth grade, and we got to pick our instruments, like, live in this world. This is how I grew up. I came home, mother said, oh, what. What instrument did you pick? And I said, I picked the trumpet. And she goes, girls don't play trumpet. And I went, no way. Like, I. I wish I fought back. And I'm like, I didn't know that. I didn't know girls didn't play trumpet. I picked the trumpet. Go back to school. Next day my mother says, girls don't play trumpet. Got to pick another instrument. No problem here. They're all picking up. This is a true story. And I had the best mother in the world come back. Oh, I picked a new instrument. Great. What did you pick? Drums. Oh, my God. Guess what I found out on day two. Who wants to answer?

[C]

Girls don't play drums.

[A]

So I am a five year member of the Clarinet Society and at no point in my life did I ever say, or anyone in my life say, you know what I could really use right now? Some good clarinet music. Yep, I want me some clarinet music. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, I didn't have autonomy. I had available to me the violin, the flute and the clarinet. And I'm not kidding. I know for your age, that seems bizarre. For my age. Multiply that by a million of what options were available, Right? So we want autonomy. What do they want? They like playing soccer, but they don't need. They don't need to be their best selves at soccer. They like playing soccer, but they want to be their best selves in music, in vocals. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, everything doesn't have to be do or die the best ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here's what you have to do to be the best. Everybody can't be the best on the team, but everyone can be the best for the team. Maybe that's the role. Do you guys get what I'm saying? Anyway, autonomy. Second motive that every human being needs is mastery. We need to feel good at something. When I, when I want to feel good physically, I run, I lift, I stand up, paddle, I pickleball, I play tennis. I don't go out and play volleyball because I suck at volleyball. Doesn't make me feel good to play volleyball. I'm like doing tricks. Do you get what I'm saying? So autonomy, mastery. We want to do things we're good at. If we're the worst one out there and the adults yelling at me and the parents can't understand why I can't get doesn't feel very good. You don't feel like you have mastery. And the third is connectedness. We want to feel like we belong. This is why in the world, in our lives, people that speak to us, that represent our tribe, our community, our possibilities, they are so near and dear to us because we're connected to them. They understand us. They support, support us. I'm looking at. I'm looking at how you. You're responding. Like, how important is connectedness?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Like, I understand Abby. When you're a kid, I want to be other than. But at some point, you want to feel like I'm not the weirdest human being on planet Earth. You want to connect. You want to belong. So I think the best gift that we can give children is autonomy, choice, a feeling of mastery. We all want to feel good at something, and we need to feel like we belong somewhere. What say you when you hear about those three basic motives?

[B]

Yeah, it feels right. I mean, every week, Glennon would approach Emma and privately, quietly, without me around, and she'd say, you know, you don't have to play soccer. You know, we. We can find ton. There's tons of different stuff we can get you into. And she eventually, like, she still asks her to this day, honey, you know, she's about to go play D1 soccer. Honey, you know, you don't have to play soccer. Like, it's not. That's not what we. We. We want what you want. And Emma's like, mom, stop this. I love it. So we've been giving her all of these outs and all of these opportunities to not to make. To double down and make sure it's not because of me. Right. Or her dad, because her dad's a really, really fantastic soccer player who still plays today, which is awesome.

[A]

How vocal have your children been about indicating what they want in their lives? What's the answer, kids?

[B]

Very. Julie and I were just talking about this yesterday. Like, our kids make PowerPoints for Christmas lists.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So what I'm gonna say is, everyone listen to this. When kids are truly. It's from them out. When they want it, they will express it. You can't keep them away from it. I have one, one boy that I've had. I have a kid's soccer camp, 30 plus years. And he came as a five year old and now he aged out at 17. And one of my favorite pictures was of him on Christmas day, going out, getting dumped off at the field, dumping down rain. We are in Washington, and he has his hood up. You can just see his face and a ball in the back. That kid's gonna play soccer, rain, snow or shine. And you have other kids that's like, yeah, I don't do anything below 60 degrees degrees. It's just not. I'm not feeling it. They. When they love something and it's from them, nothing will keep them from it. They will do PowerPoint presentations on where our next vacation should be. So. So if you're having to push, seriously, for me, that's already a red flag.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's all I would say. Respectfully, if you, you feel like you have to push. If I hear this embrace the grind one more time. It's not the friggin Marines, people. We're not raising Marines. We're raising children.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And people who love what they do are not grinding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't get me wrong. I've heard you guys, like, is it a privilege to be on the national team or hard? Like, I, I'm not saying things aren't hard. I'm not saying things aren't difficult. I'm not saying things aren't. Oh, you know what this says, Abby?

[C]

This says that Colleen Flash is Team Julie. This is what this tells me. I win.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's.

[C]

There's joy in the grind when you're loving it and you want to do it.

[A]

And I would argue there's wisdom in both perspectives, because what I'm hearing from Abby is she loved putting it out there. Like, the more she had to push herself, the more pride she felt. Yes, it was grueling, but that grueling is part of my feeling of mastery.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And I'm choosing that. And you know, abs, I don't think fitness was always your favorite thing to do in your entire career. Can we agree on that?

[B]

Yeah. Least favorite, worst thing I be, I, I, I ma. I, I learned how to master it and figure out how to, how to make it work for me.

[A]

But you came to that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And all the coaches in the world didn't get that from you. You got that from you. Argue with me if I'm wrong, Abs. Argue with me.

[B]

No, I mean, look, I, I remember when April sat me down and she's just like, you got to get more fit. And, and this is when I was on the 21 team kind of coming in and every once in a while coming on the senior team, and I just, I spent three months going after it, and I had this. People thought I was unfit, but when I came in in 2003 and 2004, I was one of the fittest players on the team. But, you know, I was in the group A, Jules. When we were training for the Olympics in 04, I was in group A. I was right next to Tiffany Sahedic, and, And just like Heather O'Reilly were running her asses off.

[C]

Yes. And that's legit. Hey, O N T r.

[B]

I suffered. Yeah.

[C]

I suffered.

[A]

Catch us if you can, Abby. Catch us if you can.

[B]

Yeah, that's a.

[A]

That's a group. What I'm saying to you is I. Other people in authority would have said things to you before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when it mattered to you, regardless of who or where or why, I don't think that was the first conversation nor the last. When it mattered to you, how did you respond? And you responded. You responded. And you're in the a group. End of story. Mic drop.

[C]

Mic drop. Colleen, thank you for coming. Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. You didn't hear us at the top of the show, but I talk about how so many times during the course of a year, I'm like, what would. What would Flash do in this moment? What would Colleen do? And your wisdom that literally oozes out is so welcomed every time. So please come back so you can meet Kinger as well and have a fabulous, fabulous 2026.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[C]

Ah. Every time I talk to her, I'm just like, oh, man, she's so good. She's so good.

[B]

So good. She's got so many good nuggets of wisdom.

[C]

Yeah. And so many good reminders that you're like, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

These, aha. Moments of like, oh, right, you. I do need to do that. I need to do that more. All right, so we hope this episode gets your 2026 off to a great start. Don't forget to subscribe to the welcome to the party YouTube channel. Click that little bell icon so you know when new episodes. Episodes go live.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm going to check right now, but. But we're also still looking to get to that 1000 reviews on Apple Podcasts. So if you wouldn't mind going there. Rate, leave a comment and subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to follow us on TikTok and Instagram @. Welcome to the Party show where Julie, Billy, and I will bring the party straight to your feed. Thank you, Kate Diaz, as always, for our theme music. Jules, do you want to put your paws.

[C]

In? Put your paws in, party people, wherever you are in this 2026 year. That is gonna be.

[B]

Amazing. Let's.

[C]

Go. Okay, on three. One, two.

[B]

Three. Welcome to the Party is an independent production brought to you by TR Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. Silvertribe is our production partner, and you can also watch our full conversations on the welcome to the party YouTube channel and follow us at. Welcome to the Party show on Instagram and.

[C]

TikTok. Party.

[A]

People. The party is officially.