The Great Debate: Did Cheryl Reeve Go Too Far?

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Welcome to the Party
Episode: The Great Debate: Did Cheryl Reeve Go Too Far?
Hosts: Julie Foudy, Abby Wambach, Billie Jean King
Date: September 30, 2025

---

Episode Overview

The episode plunges into one of the most talked-about controversies in women's sports: Minnesota Lynx head coach Cheryl Reeve’s explosive reaction during Game 3 of the WNBA semifinals, her subsequent suspension, and the wider concerns about officiating and physicality in the league. Julie, Abby, and BJK break down what happened, debate whether Reeve crossed a line, and discuss standards of behavior for women coaches versus men—all while keeping the energy, humor, and passion that defines the show.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Why This Debate?

• The Lynx lost Game 4 to the Mercury after Reeve was suspended due to her conduct during Game 3.
• The incident spurred a passionate off-air debate, leading the hosts to dedicate an entire segment to Reeve’s actions and what they mean for women’s sports.
• This goes beyond one outburst: it’s about player safety, officiating, and double standards for women in leadership.

---

2. Party Starters: Women’s Sports Highlights (03:17–11:28)

• WNBA Playoffs Update: Indiana Fever, despite major injuries and no Caitlin Clark, pushes Las Vegas Aces to Game 5. Kelsey Mitchell's playoff performance highlighted.
• Nebraska Volleyball Dominance: Nebraska’s sellout streak (since 2001), recent attendance records, and their undefeated start.
• Rugby World Cup: England’s win in front of a record crowd, with 40% of rugby players projected to be women by next year.
• Women’s Cricket World Cup: Coming with a historic $13.88 million prize purse, surpassing the men’s, a "significant advancement" for the sport.

Quote — Abby Wambach (10:20):
"This prize money exceeds the Men's World cup, which I'm so pumped about, and marks a significant advancement for women's cricket."

---

3. What Happened with Cheryl Reeve? (11:28–14:01)

• Game 3 Recap: Lynx’s star, Nafisa Collier, is injured after a controversial play. Reeve storms the court, gets a second technical and is ejected, then delivers an expletive-laced condemnation of the officiating at her press conference.
• WNBA’s Reaction: Reeve is suspended for Game 4 due to her aggressive pursuit and verbal abuse of an official, failure to leave the court, and her press conference statements.

Quote — Cheryl Reeve, Press Conference (13:29):
"When you let the physicality happen, people get hurt. There's fights. And this is the look that our League wants for some reason...for the leadership to deem those three people semifinals playoff worthy is malpractice."

---

4. The Big Question: Did Reeve Go Too Far? (15:32–20:24)

Billie Jean King: Emotional Loyalty vs. Practical Limits

• Praises Reeve’s passion and loyalty to her team—"I'll go through a wall for her."
• Acknowledges that from a logical standpoint, it was "over the top" and something must change in WNBA officiating.

Quote — Billie Jean King (15:32):
"My heart gets in there and I go, God, she's a great coach. She sticks up for her players...But with my head...whoa, that's over the top."

Abby Wambach: Calculated, Conscious Choice

• Doesn’t see Reeve as losing control; believes it was a purposeful coaching decision to shield her players and highlight broader issues.
• "She’s with all of her faculties. This is a conscious choice she is making." (17:43)

Julie Foudy: Drawing the Line on Behavior

• Loves Reeve’s passion and F-bombs (!!), but questions risking both your star player and coach before a must-win game.
• Emphasizes coaches’ responsibility to be present for their team, especially after a major injury.

Quote — Julie Foudy (19:29):
"Do you want to risk losing your best player and your coach as you're going into game four? I think that has to also cross her mind, and that's got to tamper it down."

---

5. Gender Double-Standards and Cultural Expectations (25:55–29:51)

• Abby raises the double standard for emotional outbursts: "If this happens on the guy side in the NBA, is it making as big of waves? ...Are we so accustomed to seeing women coaches and women athletes needing to keep it cool?"
• Julie agrees, but adds she doesn’t support this behavior from any coach, male or female, especially as a model for youth sports.
• The group reflects on the importance and challenge of setting the right example in high-pressure moments.

Quote — Abby Wambach (25:55):
"Are we so accustomed to seeing women coaches and women athletes supposed basically needing to keep it a cool that we are not in our minds allowing them to respond in emotional ways?"

---

6. Officiating, Player Safety, and Systemic Change (30:41–33:44)

• The hosts agree officiating and player safety have been urgent, unresolved problems for years.
• Julie emphasizes the need to invest in the officiating pipeline for women's sports: "There needs to be more investment in the pipeline for referees who are doing women's games and for the women who are doing women's games. Absolutely."
• Billie Jean points out Reeve’s outburst could be a catalyst for change, even if she knowingly risked her job: "If she can help make the league stronger and better in officiating, then she got it done."

---

7. Was It Worth It? Consequences and Legacy (33:44–38:53)

• Abby, Billie, and Julie discuss whether Reeve's sacrifice was justified given the actual outcome—Lynx lost Game 4 without her.
• Julie notes, "Had they won, I would say yes, she was right to do that. But they didn't win. So I can make the argument now like it didn't work out."
• Billie counters that sometimes teams rally when their coach defends them, but you never know how it's going to play out.

---

8. Final Thoughts and the State of Women’s Sports (36:37–38:10)

• Abby celebrates the spirited debate as a sign of how far women’s sports coverage has come: "I like the fact that we're having a debate about the WNBA… it's a testament to where women's sports are."
• Billie and Abby end on the note that, despite the controversy, Reeve is a coach they’d go to battle with: "I'll play for Cheryl Reeve anytime." (38:07, Billie Jean King)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Billie Jean King (15:32, 19:46, 30:33):

  • "My heart gets in there and I go, God, she's a great coach. She sticks up for her players...But with my head...whoa, that's over the top."
  • "If I were playing, I go, I want her as my coach."
  • "That's the part I like. My coach has my back."

• Abby Wambach (17:43, 25:55, 37:39):

  • "You see a woman who's angry, for sure...but this is a conscious choice she is making."
  • "Are we so accustomed to seeing women coaches and women athletes needing to keep it cool?"
  • "I love coaches that care, that give a damn about their players and that put themselves on the chopping block when it matters."

• Julie Foudy (19:29, 29:24, 32:29):

  • "I love her fighting for her players, but you also got to be present in Game 4. ...Do you want to risk losing your best player and your coach?"
  • "If this had been a high school coach, Kinger?" — raising the responsibility to model behavior.
  • "There needs to be more investment in the pipeline for referees...Their best. And keep them there."

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:17] – Party starter: WNBA, rugby, volleyball, cricket headlines
• [11:28] – Context setup: What happened with Cheryl Reeve?
• [13:29] – Reeve’s fiery post-game quote and press conference
• [15:32] – Debate begins: Did she go too far?
• [25:55] – Gender double standards and emotional outbursts
• [30:41] – Officiating and player safety: systemic issues
• [36:41] – Final thoughts: Debate as a sign of progress in women’s sports
• [38:07] – BJK: "I'll play for Cheryl Reeve anytime."

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Welcome to the Party" goes beyond dissecting a singular controversy. The conversation becomes a lens for examining the expectations, double standards, and enduring issues facing women’s sports. Abby, Julie, and Billie Jean blend humor, honesty, and personal experience to create a lively and insightful debate—never losing sight of their mission: to challenge, celebrate, and elevate women’s sports, one party at a time.

Transcript

[Julie Foudy]

At the end of that game, to come on the court the way she did, that is losing her mind. Right. You had to have, like, four players restrain her, four staff members restrain her.

[Abby Wambach]

You see a woman who's angry, for sure.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

But she's not. She's completely. With all of her faculties. This is a conscious choice she is making.

[Billie Jean King]

But deep down in my heart of hearts, I've been going, oh, I love this coach. I'll go any. I will go through the. I'll go through a wall for her.

[Julie Foudy]

Attention, the party is about to commence. Welcome to the party. What up, party people? I'm Julie Foudy.

[Abby Wambach]

I'm Abby Wambach.

[Billie Jean King]

I'm Billie Jean King Kinger.

[Julie Foudy]

You're back, baby. Back from BJK Cup. How was China? How was the cup?

[Billie Jean King]

China was fantastic. BJK cup was exhausting, but fun. Watched every match I could. And the only thing is, you know, Italy won again. They won last year and they. They beat the United States.

[Julie Foudy]

I know.

[Billie Jean King]

It drove me crazy, but that's. But I could tell ahead of time, you know. You know, you can just see a team versus individuals. Then, you know, the gigs up. So.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah.

[Billie Jean King]

But anyway, it was fantastic. Very successful. It was in Shenzhen, which is relatively a new city. So everything is beautiful. New buildings. It looks like it's New York City, really, but it's truly beautiful. You fly into Hong Kong and then you do a quick trip over to Shenzhen.

[Julie Foudy]

Oh, that's cool. You know, we used to go all the time to China back in, like, the 80s and 90s, way back. And this was your first ever trip there, which. Which blew my mind first.

[Billie Jean King]

I dreamt about it since I was 8. I pulled down the map in 4th grade all the time. And I look at the map, I go, I got to go to China someday. I got to go. And I've been so busy with everything that finally we get to go to China because of tennis. I had, you know, now it's business. I go, and I am just so happy. I finally made it a little dream come true.

[Abby Wambach]

Was it everything you expected, Billy?

[Billie Jean King]

It was better than I expected. Awesome. It was. Of course, we're in a very new city. Shenzhen's about 30 to, I think, 40 years old. So everything's new. It's just been built. But I guess other parts of China isn't quite so nice. But that's what other people were telling me. But next year, I want to go to the Great Wall and have some fun. I don't know. I've got some plans for next Year, hopefully, because I think we're going to play next year in Xinjiang and have it. We started with 146 countries, so it was great.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah.

[Billie Jean King]

Went down to the final eight.

[Julie Foudy]

I love how you've been home for like a week and you're like, okay, off again. Let's go. I've just circumnavigate, navigated the globe again, and let's just keep going. That's how. That's how Kinger rolls.

[Billie Jean King]

I'm going west for the Dodgers.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah, of course you are. Okay.

[Abby Wambach]

You're coming. I'm just tired. I'm tired.

[Billie Jean King]

You're tired.

[Abby Wambach]

Listening to. I can't believe that you travel so much.

[Julie Foudy]

Hey, I don't know if you all caught it.

[Billie Jean King]

Be bold. Be bold.

[Julie Foudy]

I like it. I like it. I'm sure y' all caught it because this past weekend was lit up with WNBA playoff storylines, including how Minnesota Lynx head coach Sheryl Reeve had. I don't know what you call it. A monumental meltdown. Shanae Ogwumike on ESPN called it a generational crash out in.

[Billie Jean King]

In.

[Julie Foudy]

In game three of the WNBA semifinals against Phoenix Mercury and was suspended for game four of that series, which last night on Sunday. We were recording this on Monday. And while the Mercury are moving on to the WNBA finals after beating the Lynx in that game four on Sunday, we are actually going to spend some time discussing what Cheryl Reeve did because it. It sparked quite a debate amongst the team. Yesterday when we were doing our our call, we weren't even going to do a whole segment on it. We've decided we've got to talk about this. It's so good. So the debate is to whether she went too far. Cheryl Reeve, the Minnesota League. But before we go there, let's get started with the highlights and headlines. You'll want to celebrate this week in women's sports. Our party starter is brought to you by Ally the Bank. That's your Ally. Okay, WNBA playoffs party people. In the other semifinal, Indiana Fever continue. It's crazy to battle and impress. They have so many injuries and yet they beat the Las Vegas Aces to force a game five in Vegas tonight, the winner of which will go on to to the finals to face Phoenix. And Indiana Fever's Kelsey Mitchell. My word. She finished with 25 points, her third 25 point game in the postseason. Leah Boston had 24. And just like that, the Fever had their third straight elimination game victory in this year's playoffs. And again with all the injuries. No Caitlin Clark, no Sydney Coulson, no Sophie Cunningham. All I gotta say, I don't know.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, Mitchell was out of her mind. I was watching that. Mitchell was out of her mind.

[Julie Foudy]

Keep wearing that red leather jacket, Stephanie White. That's what I gotta say. And then on the other side, as we know, Minnesota Links at Phoenix Mercury in that game four. Mercury win 86 to 81. After being down 14 points, by the way. Alyssa Thomas had a double. Double, 23 points, 10 assists. Satu Sabali had 21. Dewana Bonner dropped some huge threes at the end of that game, even though she started the. Started the game, actually missing a lot of shots, and she was huge at the end. As we just discussed, Lynx were without their head coach, Cheryl Reeve, suspended for that game four based on her conduct in game three. We will get into that. We promise. Lynx also without star Nafisa Collier, who was sidelined in a boot with an injury to her left ankle. That was really hard to watch. And the Phoenix Mercury are on to the WNBA finals, where they will face either the Aces or the Fever. Depends on who. Who wins that game, that last game five.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, what about rugby, Kinger? England beat Canada to win the 2025 Women's Rugby World Cup Final. 33 13, 33, 13 on September 27 in front of a record crowd in London. And they had 81. 885. I think that is amazing. And New Zealand took home the bronze medal in their match against France by the score of 42, 26. And I was looking things up in research, and by next year, 40% of people who play rugby are going to be women.

[Julie Foudy]

Oh, no way, no way, no way. I. I watched that whole final. Yeah, I was like, these women, I don't know if I could do it.

[Billie Jean King]

I was a wimp.

[Julie Foudy]

I'm such a wimp. I was like, these women are so strong. It's so impressive.

[Abby Wambach]

I was talking to my kid about this. Jules, too. I was like, can you imagine trying to on purpose run into somebody without trying to avoid them? Like, as soccer players, we're trying to, like, avoid each other on some. On some major level. But in rugby, the whole point is contact, right? It's the. It's. It was incredible. And the England players, they were weeping in joy. I was so happy for them to get this done on their home turf. Like, can you imagine? I mean, Julie, you could imagine you won a World cup on your home.

[Julie Foudy]

Turf and that record crowd was so into it. It was. It was awesome to see, you know?

[Billie Jean King]

You know, rugby started in England at the rugby school is where it Start. It started.

[Julie Foudy]

Invented full circle moment. Right.

[Billie Jean King]

Instead, instead of playing soccer, they wanted to pick up the ball and run.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Volleyball, women's volleyball, we're going to give them a little love in our party starter. And particularly Nebraska women's volleyball, currently ranked number one in NCAA, no surprise, undefeated, 12 wins, 0 losses. And party people, you may recall Nebraska volleyball set a world record for women's sports attendance. They actually beat, I think our 99 final at the Rose Bowl. They set a women's sports attendance record with 92,003 fans at Memorial Stadium on August 30th. Back in 2023. Well, just a couple weeks ago, on September 16th, their match against Creighton broke the NCAA regular season indoor record with 17,665 attendees. Again, everyone watching women's sports, another record broken. And Nebraska volleyball, get this. Holds the NC record for the longest sellout streak in any women's sport, which began in 2001 and currently stands their sellout streak at 24 years.

[Abby Wambach]

What?

[Billie Jean King]

2001?

[Julie Foudy]

Yes. I didn't know it was that long either. It's crazy. Okay, then the last thing in volleyball, we got to give a little shout out to Athletes Unlimited because their volleyball is getting underway On Thursday on October 3rd, new format this season is divided into two segments. So the first five weeks of competition are actually going to be in Omaha, Nebraska, which is very cool, obviously a big volleyball town, as we just pointed out. And the latter part of the tournament is going to be held in Madison, Wisconsin, another big, huge volleyball town. So shout out to my friend Cassidy Lickman. She's the director of volleyball there and runs the show. And she's also, I will say, the best beach volleyball partner in the world. And she's.

[Abby Wambach]

Are you partners with her? That's amazing.

[Julie Foudy]

She's my. She's my beach volleyball partner. Whenever we walk down the stairs together, I'm like, I brought Cassidy. I get her. He's mine.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay. I also wanted to. I. I got one last thing for the party starter. I want to talk about cricket. And, you know, this thing, this Women's World cup is starting next week on Tuesday, and it's the Women's Cricket World cup. And it begins with eight nations competing for an unprecedented 13.88 million dollar prize purse in India and Sri Lanka. This prize money exceeds the Men's World cup, which I'm so pumped about, and marks a significant advancement for women's. Women's cricket. So this marks a 297% increase in the total prize pool compared to the $3.5 million of the 2022 edition in New Zealand and even surpasses the total prize Money of the 2023 Men's Cricket World Cup. Let's go, folks. That is your party starter. And thanks to Ally for sponsoring this segment. And as we know, Ally is Bank. And their do it right approach helps customers unlock their economic potential and guides their efforts as a leading sponsor in women's sports. Julie, like us, Ally believes, I guess, Julie and Billy, like us, Ally believes that when women in sport win, we all have a reason to party. Ally Bank Member, fdic.

[Billie Jean King]

Whoa. Yeah, baby.

[Julie Foudy]

All right, party people. Now to the great debate. Did Minnesota Lynx head coach Cheryl Reeve go too far? And let me give a little context to all of this by too far. We are talking Game 3 of the semifinals, which was on Friday night. Lynx at Phoenix Mercury. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, fear not. Okay, stay with us because you'll want in on this debate. And here's what happened. So we're gonna rewind to that. Game three on Friday. Lynx versus Mercury. The series is tied and at one. Minnesota Links head coach show. Reeve got very upset in the final seconds of that game when Alyssa Thomas of the Mercury stole the ball from her star, Nafisa Collier with 21 seconds left in the game. Thomas went in with a clean steal, but then caught Fee on her ankle slash leg as she came through. You should watch this. It wasn't called a foul. Excuse me. I'm not getting emotional. Not yet. It's in the show notes, so check it out for sure. Fee went down with an injury. Thomas makes the layup and the Mercury go up by six points again with 21 seconds left. That's where things get interesting. As the Links are taking the ball out, Reeve storms the court and heads on a beeline. I mean, this was insane for the ref. I was like, what is happening right now? It literally took several coaches and players to restrain her. Reeve gets her second technical. She's ejected. The Links eventually go on to lose that game. Reeve took the mic in the post game presser to criticize the officiating. She didn't even take any questions. She's just like, I'm going to talk about the officiating in that game. And that, wow, is a must watch. And this is where it even gets spicier. Here is Coach Reeve, post game in that presser after the game three loss.

[Billie Jean King]

When you let the physicality happen, people get hurt. There's fights. And this is the look that our League wants for some reason we were trying to play through it. We tried to make excuses, the officiating crew that we had tonight, for the leadership to deem those three people semifinals playoff worthy is malpractice.

[Julie Foudy]

That by the way, was only one of her F bombs. I believe of her three, there were three, I think. In a statement, the WNBA said Reeves one game suspension stems from aggressively pursuing and verbally abusing a game official on the court, failure to leave the court in a timely manner upon her ejection and remarks made in a post game press conference. As they say, the rest is history. The Lynx lose Game 4 on Sunday and the Mercury head to the WNBA finals. And look, before I let you guys jump in again, more context. This physical play has been going on for, for some time now. We know about this. Like the complaints have been out there. The coaches have been talking about it, the players have been talking about the poor refing, the physicality of the WNBA and being dangerous to player safety. Those arguments have been circular, circulating for a long time. And let's also just put a little more context into this and last year's WNBA final, Reeves said the championship was stolen from them due to incredibly, again quotes, incredibly disappointing officiating. And it's not just this one play with Alyssa and Fee, but it's the incident that caused coach Reeve to pretty much lose it. So here's the question. Kinger and Abby, I'm sorry for all that setup, but it was necessary. Did Cheryl Reeve go too far?

[Billie Jean King]

You think my head, my head says one thing, but I must say as an ultra, ultra, and all three of us are ultra competitive athlete, my heart gets in there and I go, God, she's a great coach. She sticks up for her players. She's in there, she's fighting for her team. As a player, you're think, oh my God, she'll do anything. She's the greatest. But you've got my, you know, my head in it. Then I go, whoa, that's over the top. But they, there has been a lot of complaints for two or three years now. It's not something that just happened yesterday. So I think they do need change. There's no question something's not right.

[Abby Wambach]

I don't, I don't think she loses it right. Like Jules. I think that that's, I think that that kind of language is important and I think we have to think about this and take a step back and kind of walk through the step by step process of what happened. It was an intense moment. There was a lot of energy at the end of this game three and her player goes down.

[Julie Foudy]

Right.

[Abby Wambach]

And she sees it a certain way. I don't necessarily think that there's anything in that specific play, but this is like it's a compounding effect over not just the season, but if you go back to the previous season and the officiating being so difficult and not necessarily up to the standard of what Sheryl Reeve really wants it to be, I think, and here's here, this is not going to be maybe a hot take between the two of you, especially now we know how it has ended. I think that Cheryl had to make. Had to do something. She had to put herself in the spotlight so that her players wouldn't get suspended because the players in fact are the ones that are on the court that could potentially win the next game, sending them into a game five. But. But unfortunately that wasn't the case. When you watch the presser, I watched it a couple times.

[Julie Foudy]

You see a woman go watch it party people.

[Billie Jean King]

It's a lot of F bombs.

[Abby Wambach]

You see a woman who is measured. You see an angry person. You see a woman who's angry for sure.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

But she's not. She's completely with all of her faculties. This is a conscious choice she is making whether it's the right or wrong choice. That is not for me to decide. But. But this is. This was a coaching decision that she made. I'm going to go out there, I'm going to take one for this team.

[Billie Jean King]

I'm going to show the mic exactly to your point, exactly what you said earlier. She just took over. She did not wait for one question.

[Julie Foudy]

I agree that. Look, I can't believe that I'm actually taking the other side of this because I love a good F bomb. I love a good F bomb. I'm not going to lie.

[Billie Jean King]

No, but it's a joke.

[Julie Foudy]

I just don't think you do that on a hot mic. I like that she is passionate about the idea that player safety has to be considered here. And why do we have to keep talking about this? I go. I completely agree, but I do think when I'm talking about lose her mind and a meltdown and last night on ESPN called it a generational crash out, I started cracking up because at the end of that game to come on the court the way she did that is losing her mind. Right? Like, no, but you had to have like four players restrain her, four staff members restrain her from going attacking. I get that you're upset, but in that moment when your best player is on the court down. Right. Do you want to risk losing your best player and your. Your. Your coach as you're going into game four? I think that has to also cross her mind, and that's got to tamper it down.

[Abby Wambach]

You're so logical.

[Julie Foudy]

I love her fighting for her players, but you also got to be present in game four. What? Tell me.

[Billie Jean King]

Tell me. I love it. She's logical.

[Julie Foudy]

She's holding her head for those of.

[Billie Jean King]

You listening to an emotional moment. And if you're a player, which, if I were playing, I go, I want her as my coach.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Billie Jean King]

That's what I would be saying. I know. And I go over and try to help her calm down and all that, but deep down in my heart of hearts, I'd be going, oh, I love this coach. I'll go any. I will go through the. I'll go through a wall for her. She's going through a wall for us, for me and us as a player. Is it right? Absolutely not. I told you. There's the logic side, and then there's emotional side.

[Julie Foudy]

Right? Right.

[Billie Jean King]

And if you use one and then the other, you can go crazy here and be logical there. But if you put them together, heart and mind together, I still want her as my coach.

[Abby Wambach]

Jules, what do you miss the most about soccer?

[Julie Foudy]

Good question. Two things. The people. Always the people. My teammates like you. But also the other thing is seeing the world. I mean, think about all the cool places we got to go to. Even if my mom thought I was in Bolivia, I was actually in Bulgaria, but she never knew where I was. Cyprus. Greece, Mom. Not Cypress, Florida. But, like, that was. That was. The really cool thing is we got to travel everywhere.

[Abby Wambach]

It's true. And somebody paid us to do that. Like, it just blows my mind to have a job, to be able to travel, to see the world, you know? We saw so many unexpected things.

[Julie Foudy]

You know, favorite place.

[Abby Wambach]

I mean, Portugal. Algarve. Algarve saves these. Oh, really? Yes. Okay.

[Julie Foudy]

Where?

[Abby Wambach]

Where? Where. Like, why. Why. Why was the Algarve Cup.

[Julie Foudy]

Oh, my gosh. Because you ate crepes all day. You played golf all day. Maybe. Which is why we probably never won the Algarve Cup.

[Abby Wambach]

We stopped playing golf by the time my. My. My generation came out.

[Julie Foudy]

We were banned from it because we never won.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, we played soccer is what we did.

[Julie Foudy]

We did not. We were like, wait, are we here for soccer? What are we here for? Are we here for soccer? Did you do the pottery shopping all the time?

[Abby Wambach]

Yes. Pottery shopping.

[Julie Foudy]

I still have all these plates.

[Abby Wambach]

The Indian food is the best Indian food I've ever had to this day.

[Julie Foudy]

The best in the crepes. Literally, I got obsessed with. I'm gonna start a crepe store in America. I had a name for it, the Crepes of Wrath. That's so good. Right? I had a name for it. I was going down the whole road of, like, why don't we have these crepe stores in America?

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Julie Foudy]

Anyways, Portugal. But the thing you realize pretty quickly, and I don't know about you, but hotels. We stayed in a lot of hotels, and hotels as nice as they can seem, like you don't have a space where you can gather. And I love the idea, which is where. What I love now is the idea of a house. Right. Where you're actually. And it's what I love about the homes on Airbnb, where you can have a place to gather, you can cook, you can. You don't have to spend $700 on breakfast. Right. You love it right there. So in. It's not just a place to crash, it's a gathering place, which is what I love about it.

[Abby Wambach]

I couldn't agree more. I think it's, like, so important, the space thing. You know, we traveled so much and we just had a room, you know, And. And when you're traveling and. And you're. You're. You're. You're finding these beautiful homes on Airbnb that have the space. And also, I snore a little bit. And so it's important for me to have a possible. Maybe another room to venture into during the night. And while you can book a place with Airbnb, it's always going to be a little bit more unique. You can decide it's going to be a little bit more of you, especially with our big family. It's just like the home away from home vibes that we're searching for.

[Julie Foudy]

Well, and I like it because we can stay with a lot of families, so we get big Airbnbs and we can have it. And it's a true big welcome to the the party episode. But what's crazy is I think back to all those years we were traveling with the national team, and I think back we could have. Because our houses were sitting empty, we could have actually been hosting our homes on Airbnb while we were away and helped paying for that dream trip. Why did we not think like that?

[Abby Wambach]

Well, Airbnb wasn't existing back when we played. That's probably why. And I think that if, like, you're concerned about the extra work to manage those properties. Just trust me. I get it. And that would be like the first holdup for me too. But Airbnb co host network, you can find a local co host to help you with all the, all the details. They make it super easy. And when you go travel, you can make some money.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah. And if you are worried about managing reservations or maybe even messaging guests, that's where the co host can give you that on site support. So you don't have to stress about all that stuff.

[Abby Wambach]

Which means you get to be out there traveling, playing my favorite, getting lost.

[Julie Foudy]

In a new city, buying pottery.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes. And your home is still working for you in the background.

[Julie Foudy]

It's kind of genius. You're making memories on the road while you're having peace of mind back home. So find a co [e-mail] host. Couldn't you also give the emotional side and defend for your players without that like getting ejected from the game?

[Billie Jean King]

But that's not who she is. I want her to be her real self.

[Julie Foudy]

Right. Because I do think you go into game four. Now, mind you, if game four had ended differently and the links end up going on this emotional high and winning the game which they started the game with. Right. They go up early, they go up big. That emotion only you can only ride that for so long, obviously. Right. They've lost one of their, their best other players anyway.

[Billie Jean King]

So you're gonna, you're gonna need extra emotion to build them up a little bit. And if you're a B player, you're gonna have to be a B plus player tonight.

[Julie Foudy]

But also you don't have your coach, I mean Eric, a minus coach on the sideline.

[Billie Jean King]

A player tonight, you gotta step up.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. I think that one of the things we also have to talk about because this is an important thing and something I know it's gonna be important to the three of us is if this happens on the guy side in the NBA, is it making as big of waves? Right? Are we, are we so accustomed to seeing women coaches and women athletes supposed basically needing to keep it a cool that we are not in our minds allowing them to respond in emotional ways that when, when that moment happens, when she does actually say what she's thinking as an athlete, as a competitor, as a coach, whatever it might be, are we, are we comparing ourselves to like this? I don't know. I just. I want to be very clear that this is not a conversation that we would be having if it was happening to a men's coach. That Like, I don't think so. No, not, not if an F bomb was set, an oppressor, you know, and, and certainly not, not coaches, you know, getting really upset. Like those things are never making headlines. Yes. If they get ejected in a playoffs and they're missing the next game, I understand that there's context and consequences for those actions that might should filter through Cheryl's head while she's on the court. I do think that both things can be true, that she may have been trying to fire up her team and it also might have been ill timed in terms of the way that she, she did it to prevent her from being the coach. But if you look at the game, there are other players that really stepped up and almost came through. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't a blowout by any means. McBride had lots of points for, for the lakes.

[Julie Foudy]

They were in it till the final seconds for sure.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, they were in it. And so, and so doesn't mean most of the time. Yeah, I mean, they were down. I think, I think Mercury was done by 14 points was what we said earlier in this episode.

[Billie Jean King]

14.

[Abby Wambach]

So I don't know. I just think that we got to be careful.

[Julie Foudy]

I do think, yes, I, I agree with that Abs, that we react differently to women doing that. But I also have always said, I don't agree with men doing it either. Like, if you're, if you're a young high school kid or a coach watching that. Right. Like, is that the example that we should be setting? Yes, it's. Again, it's not just this one incident. There's many incidents that cause this to happen and it's not taken care of. And I understand that frustration because it's real and it's player safety, which is, is paramount, the most important thing. Right. But I also think that you're setting an example that when young kids are watching or young parents, like we have such an issue right now in, with, in this country with youth sports and the aggravation and the pressure and the intensity, it's like, ah. And so that was a parent.

[Billie Jean King]

That's different. Yeah, that's, that's like you go to like Little league baseball games. You go to whatever little anything like younger, and it's the parents, you want to tell them to sit down.

[Abby Wambach]

It's.

[Billie Jean King]

The parents are the problem more than the coaches, I find.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. But I think what Julie's point is saying her, her point is that like, are these coaches and some of the athletes who are having these responses teaching parents.

[Billie Jean King]

Right. That this is how they are setting an example. I get it.

[Julie Foudy]

I totally like, what if this had been a high school coach Kinger.

[Billie Jean King]

No, I don't think it's good. Nope. I would say absolutely not. Sit down. Yeah, that would be horrible.

[Julie Foudy]

Sit your ass down.

[Billie Jean King]

No, I don't know. No, that would not be good at a high school game. High school is different. I get it. I think you guys have been bringing up the gender issue is also something we have to always think about because we are taught to be different. I respond. And all this baloney. I just love it.

[Abby Wambach]

I love.

[Billie Jean King]

It's total baloney.

[Abby Wambach]

I heard her response, and I loved it in the moment. And I just thought, that is a coach. I would. I would run into a brick wall for it. You know, I don't know how much coaches have. In terms of. I've had coaches that got suspended for this reason or that. And I just remember those games, walking into those games being like, I got to be more of myself today. I've got to bring more of myself today. And though it didn't work out for the links, I just. I think that that that builds a kind of camaraderie and a morale, and it makes me feel like my coach has my back. And I really love that about show.

[Billie Jean King]

That's the part I like. My coach has my back.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah.

[Billie Jean King]

But I agree that she didn't react appropriately.

[Julie Foudy]

Probably the disappointing part of all of this is watching in that game four, Nafeesa watching from the sideline without, you know, an ability to play. She's in her boot.

[Billie Jean King]

That's the worst.

[Julie Foudy]

And there was a lot of debate on whether that was a foul or not. When I looked at it, Alyssa Thomas comes in clean, makes the steal, and then catches her as she's running through. I thought it wasn't a foul because of that, because it was a clean steal, but there was a lot of debate. And again, go watch the video if you haven't. But I think it's clear it's not just that one play, it's that. And this has been a topic that's been talked about a lot in not just women's basketball, but women's sports, There needs to be more investment in the pipeline for referees who are doing women's games and for the women who are doing women's games. Absolutely. In terms of. And right now. Right. Their incentive is they get to go on to the NBA. Well, they've got to keep them in the wnba. Their best. And keep them there.

[Billie Jean King]

That's right.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah. And keep them there. And that's, that is the source of frustration for all of this because it's been going on for so long. And you could hear it in Cheryl when she, you know, makes the call for there to be like total change from the infrastructure of how they do deal with officiating. Because in the end, as we know and as we've lived, like if you get that wrong, then player safety is out the window in terms of making sure that fees available and players are available to be playing longer in these seasons, which you want, you want your stars out there.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, I think the coach had long term plans there. Change. Change is we need it yesterday, but we've got to do it now. We've got to get better officiating. We just have to do it. And I think she was ready to take whatever it, you know, just do whatever I need to do to make this happen. I think she was at her wits end. I think she'd had it and if she can help make the league stronger and better in officiating, then she got it done. That's a hard thing when you're out there because I bet she had a lot of different thoughts going through her head as she's giving the F bombs and all that. I'm sure she's thinking about what she wants for the future because it's not working the way it is now.

[Julie Foudy]

I was just laughing because I was thinking when she was F bombing, I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. Like, I got my popcorn out. I was like, wow.

[Billie Jean King]

No, I think she knows she's probably, she knows she can probably get fired be, you know, she knows all the. I know that all the other consequences have gone through her head. I think she just, it was just at the wit's end. She had it done. I don't care what happens. We have to have this change no matter what.

[Julie Foudy]

It's fall time, baby. Let's go. I am so happy. Not for the leaves changing color because we don't get that in California, unfortunately. I get it. East coast and Midwest people, you get these beautiful trees. We don't get that. We get cooler temperatures. And that I'm ready for. I am all for that. And on top of that, we get all these amazing sports on tv. So right now we've got WNBA playoffs happening. We've got the last month of NWSL of the season happening where they're vying to get into the playoffs. Angel City, let's go. And just like our favorite teams need the right gear to play in, I've decided That it's fall. My wardrobe also deserves a seasonal upgrade. What about you? Oh.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, that's so good. I know.

[Julie Foudy]

Seasonal.

[Abby Wambach]

I know. And that's why I'm all about quints right now, baby. You know, they've got the elevated fall essentials. 100 Mongolian cashmere starting at just 50 bucks, y'. All Perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that just feel like a total win.

[Julie Foudy]

I personally have been eyeing their wool coats because I need them in the fall when we're calling games and it's outside, it's very chilly. Yeah, it gets cold. Right. And they've got this designer look at just a fraction of the cost, which is what I love about Quince is that they. Here's. This is really cool. They work directly with ethical, top tier factories, and they cut out the middleman. Kind of like us. What we're doing. We want to cut out the middleman. So we think that is really smart. Cut out the middleman. And I've decided my quince MVP for the fall is the wool cocoon coat. Check it out. Abs for those chilly nights, because you have to stand on the field and it gets really cold, and sometimes they wear fuzzy gloves. I haven't checked out if they have fuzzy gloves yet, but it gets cold. I'm wearing the wool cocoon coat. It is. So it's. It's got this high collar. It looks very fashionable.

[Abby Wambach]

Jules, do you want to hear what my MVP is?

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah. What's yours?

[Abby Wambach]

It's a European linen duvet cover set.

[Julie Foudy]

Cover set. Nice. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

I mean, look, I had to. I had to outfit our child's dorm room. And so that's what we got her. And coziness is that is her most important thing that she was looking for.

[Julie Foudy]

Yes, they're big on that.

[Abby Wambach]

Quince has done it. So if you want to stay classic, cozy and ready for fall on and off the field, head to quint.com. welcome to the party. For free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N c e dot com. Welcome to the party.

[Julie Foudy]

Abs. Any last thoughts?

[Abby Wambach]

I just like it. I like it all for so many reasons.

[Julie Foudy]

Come here, Cheryl. Let's hug it out. Let's hug it out.

[Abby Wambach]

I like this debate. I like the fact that we're having a debate about the wnba. I know that maybe it's not such a great topic. I would like to be talking about, you know, the winners and not it being something so dramatic like this. But that is also a testament of where we've come and where women's sports are that we are having some of these debates, even though it's about maybe, you know, officiating, needing to get better or whatnot want. It's like 15, 20 years ago, y', all, like this was not making headlines. It was making headlines. And so that's the other reason why I kind of love what she did. It's like, you know, she had a moment, probably went over the top on the court, got a little bit measured, figured out because I think she probably thought she was going to get suspended anyway.

[Billie Jean King]

Oh, she knew that beggar go home.

[Abby Wambach]

Exactly. From the court behavior and then just went, yeah, she went for it. So I just. I love coaches that. That care that. That give a about their players and that put themselves on the chopping block when it matters. And that's kind of what I saw with Cheryl Reeve.

[Julie Foudy]

Sad that.

[Abby Wambach]

That the links fell to the Phoenix Mercury. Not that I was.

[Julie Foudy]

Unless you're a Mercury fan. I mean, they've been so impressive.

[Billie Jean King]

Of course I'll play for Shell Reeve anytime.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah. Well, my only hesitation with that is not my only is that is that she's not available for that game four. Right. If she's available, is that a different outcome? And that's what you should be thinking about.

[Billie Jean King]

I don't know, maybe you want to.

[Julie Foudy]

Make change for referees and yes, you want to defend your players, but like you also need to be available. They needed you there. You've just lost your best player for game four.

[Billie Jean King]

Maybe they'll play better because of what happens happen Sometimes you actually play better for your coach to show your coach you're going to do this for you. You don't know how it's going to happen. And it's.

[Julie Foudy]

Had they won, I would say yes, she was right to do that. But they didn't win. So I can make the argument now like it didn't work out.

[Billie Jean King]

Cheryl, actually, 48 hours, two days later, three days later.

[Julie Foudy]

Did you go too far? Possibly, yes. Because she didn't win game four. And in the end, you're judged by how many you win. That's the reality. So sadly, the Lynx have not been able to pull off that championship. And you have this Lynx team that was ranked number one coming into this playoffs had obviously had top rated team coming into this playoff and. And an ending that they did not expect would happen. All right, party people, you've heard from us. We want to hear from you now. Did you think Sheryl Reeve went too far? Yes or no? We're going to put the Poll up on our Instagram page. Let us know what you think and why you think that and add to the conversation because it really is an interesting one. And while you're at it, don't forget to subscribe to the welcome to the party YouTube channel and click that little bell icon so you get updates when new episodes go live.

[Abby Wambach]

And if.

[Julie Foudy]

Make sure you do that.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, make sure you can do that. But if you can take one minute, just one little minute, we would so appreciate it. If you can rate, leave a comment and subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us on TikTok and Instagram @ welcome to the Party show where Julie, Billy and I will bring the party straight to your feed. And another big shout out to Kate Diaz for our theme music. We really love it. Billy, will you lead us in the usage here?

[Julie Foudy]

Yeah.

[Billie Jean King]

I love this. I'm learning.

[Julie Foudy]

Let's go, kanger.

[Billie Jean King]

Italians, baby. You ready?

[Julie Foudy]

Go.

[Billie Jean King]

Ready? Here we go.

[Julie Foudy]

Come on. You gotta count us in, Uncle.

[Abby Wambach]

You gotta count us in on three. Count us in on three.

[Billie Jean King]

I know. One, two, three. But I'm just like, okay.

[Julie Foudy]

One, two, three. This was Cheryl Reeve.

[Abby Wambach]

Welcome to the Party is an independent production brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for human humans who want to stay human forever. Dog is our production partner and you can watch our full conversations on the welcome to the party YouTube channel and follow us at welcome to the Party show on Instagram and Tick Tock.