Julie Foudy (1:35)

King, er, where you at?

Billie Jean King (1:37)

I am in Palm Desert because these. The big Indian Wells tournament's coming up. So lots of meetings, lots of business meetings. Not just on tennis either, like other sports and things. So we never stop. It's fun though. And we get to see friends. Most importantly, we get to see friends.

Julie Foudy (1:57)

She's like, we're back from our global trip from Milan and let's get on another plane and go across the country again.

Billie Jean King (2:03)

Yeah, why not?

Abby Wambach (2:04)

I'm so tired still from my trip to Milan. I don't know.

Billie Jean King (2:07)

How are you? Me too, though. I'm tired. I am tired from Milan.

Julie Foudy (2:11)

You know, the party, the party is continuing. Paralympics opening ceremony one day away. It's awesome.

Billie Jean King (2:17)

Yeah, that's.

Julie Foudy (2:18)

I can't wait.

Abby Wambach (2:19)

It's so exciting.

Billie Jean King (2:19)

I think next, I think if I make it four more years, I want to go to the parallel. I think I'm going to go to the para ones, not just the regular ones. I think I'm gonna go just the Paralympics. I think so. I've been thinking about it.

Julie Foudy (2:32)

There's.

Billie Jean King (2:33)

I hate the fact they start afterwards and I want to see them and,

Julie Foudy (2:38)

you know, I've said that for years. I'm like, why can't they play them simultaneously? The answer I always get is that it's a venue thing. It's a space.

Billie Jean King (2:46)

That's what I get.

Julie Foudy (2:47)

It's an Olympic village thing. You can't. You can't house that many athletes. I'm like, well, let's create that does it together. Because it is amazing. The Paralympics are amazing.

Abby Wambach (2:58)

Airbnb it. But they do use Airbnb.

Billie Jean King (3:02)

But they deserve to be. That's a good idea. They deserve to be with the Olympics, when the Olympics are happening. I think.

Julie Foudy (3:09)

Yeah.

Billie Jean King (3:09)

And I think we need to really step it up when it comes to Paralympics.

Abby Wambach (3:14)

Yeah, well, they are as big of a deal as the others. It's just not portrayed that way in the media because it's delayed.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (3:21)

Right.

Billie Jean King (3:22)

It's the way you. It's the way you commercialize it, it's the way you advertise it. It's the way you media all. You're correct. It's all those things that make an event or events seem bigger than life.

Julie Foudy (3:35)

Coming up next. For years, y', all, women's sports and women's pro sports were just trying to keep the doors open, as we know. Well, now we're in the billion dollar era. Yes, we are. And that changes everything. So the question is simple. Who's next? Abby and I go head to head on what league becomes the next billion dollar league in women's pro sports. And we each get to call in a surprise guest.

Abby Wambach (4:02)

But first, International Women's Day is March 8th. Yep, y'. All, It's a day to celebrate the social, economic, cultural, political achievements of women while pushing for progress wherever equality still doesn't exist. And the three of us all have spent basically our whole lives pushing progress in women's sports direction. All of us have seen change. And I think I'm curious because Jules and Billy, like you both have such different and unique perspective and such similar perspective in some ways. What is one moment in your career when you realized this wasn't just about playing? When it became a time where it got bigger for you? Is there one moment you can recall Julie Kinger?

Billie Jean King (4:57)

I do.

Julie Foudy (4:58)

We said at the same time, kinger, you went, julie, go for it, Julie. No, Kinger, you always go first. You are the king of queens.

Abby Wambach (5:06)

Yeah.

Billie Jean King (5:07)

Well, the first time I thought about tennis and the way I wanted to be a part of it was when I was 12. I played one year and I was sitting at the Los Angeles Tennis Club and just daydreaming and thinking that I did ask, where's everybody else? Because everybody was white. White balls, white clothes. And I said, we've got to stop that. But I got a much bigger idea in my head. I thought, first of all, tennis is global, just like soccer, and maybe if I can become number one, I can influence and make the world a little bit better. How can I do that? And that's really what drove me to be number one, I think, more than just being number one. You know, like a lot of kids say, I just want to be the best and all that. I really wanted to change the world. And I promised myself that day I would fight for equality and inclusion the rest of my life. I mean, I was like, how old were you?

Kelsey Robinson Cook (6:11)

Boom.

Billie Jean King (6:12)

I was 12.

Julie Foudy (6:14)

What mine abs was when I was playing with the US Women's National Team early days. And we got to a point where we were like, why is this so hard? Like, why do we keep asking for things nicely? And nothing is changing. Nothing is. Is moving along. I mean, simple shit all the time.

Billie Jean King (6:35)

Like what? Like what?

Julie Foudy (6:38)

Why are we staying at the Holiday Inn Express? Taking the Holiday Inn Express shuttle to the games when the men are at the Ritz Carlton, like, does that. Is that fair? Right? Like, why do they have, you know, seven trainers and five massage therapists, and we can't even get a trainer, like, to tape our ankles? Like, why? And so we would start asking and noticing the differences of the way the men were getting supported and the way the women were getting supported. Why do we go into a city and no one knows we were even there? We'd be out to dinner after a game, and they'd be like, wait, what? You were in town? How did we not know this? Well, because no one's gonna spend money on marketing. So when we finally got to a point that we were starting to fight us soccer, the thing that I remember the most is we got to a board member and said, can we get documents from the board that show how much money is being spent on an under 12 girl versus an under 12 boy? Because to us, that's the thing that is so wrong in all of this, that you are a federation that was built to support and grow soccer. It doesn't say for just mention or just boys in this country. And that is your mission statement. So what are they spending on girls and boys of the same age? And what we discovered in these documents, which then I said, this will become my lifelong service and it has, is that they were spending 80% of their money on a 12 year old boy versus 20% of their money on a 12 Year old girl. And so we started to bring them those numbers and said we have your numbers, we've been through all your P and LS and guess what? You're not doing what you say you're doing in your mission statements. And that's actually when we got the federation to change because they said we agree that's not right. And it's not about lining our pockets. It's not about what the women's national team is getting. And yes, you have to fight for those things to then the pipeline to be better. But it was like how can this even be legal? Like what you're doing, it's a non profit that's built to, to build the sport. How are we outspending on a boy versus a girl? And I was like from now on that's going to be my fight.

Abby Wambach (8:59)

And so that's what, that's what it was.

Julie Foudy (9:01)

I love so pissed about that.

Billie Jean King (9:03)

I never heard that story. That's amazing.

Julie Foudy (9:06)

Yeah. How can you discriminate against a young kid because of their gender? And it happens all the time in spending in sports.

Abby Wambach (9:16)

Well, I think what you both have talked about is really important because billie, when you're 12 and you're dreaming about a world that you can envision that might look a little bit more equal for us women, I think that so many really successful athletes and people in the world, they have a dream, they have a vision of where they're going. And so that I think that it's really special. And Jules, one of the things that I'm taking away so much from what you just said was like you found evidence, you found like the stats and the info in order to prove the way that you're. You were feeling like that point and my moment, it was two separate moments, 96 and 99. I was not on our senior women's national team yet. I was on the youth national teams and watching with my eyes, with my eyeballs, seeing it on television. You guys win a gold medal and then win the 99 Women's World cup, that molecularly changed something in my body because I saw how a game that you all were like a part of and playing could impact. I felt how it impacted me. I knew in my bones what it was inspiring me to do. And so knowing that you all were having the impact on me and then after 99 happened, I didn't have a plan B after college and I was like, that's what I want to do, that I want to be on the field and experience that. Not just to be the champion, but to be a part of this cultural moment that you all were able to curate. And so that, for me, was absolutely the thing that I was like, boom. And not to mention, like, when we say these stories, party people, I like to go a little bit deeper. The reason why this, it's so important to have women in talent positions talking about women's sports or having women's sports in media is because without having the ability to have watched you guys with my eyeballs, because I wasn't there at either one of those games, I was watching it on television that would not. Abby Wambach might not have ever played for the national team. So it is very important that women have access and are represented in the media landscape so that our next generation of Billie Jean Kings and Julie Foudies and Abby Wambachs are given the correct information to be inspired by.

Julie Foudy (11:57)

I mean, the reality is though, that we have, we. We have made progress. There's no question. There's. There's more women in leadership, there's more investment in women's sports. There's more girls playing than ever, as we know. But we also have to acknowledge that there are still gaps, that we have pay equity issues, we have funding issues, safety, representation. That's, I think, really what International Women's Day is all about. And I want to celebrate the momentum of women, what we've accomplished, while also being honest about the work left to do. And if you actually want to put action behind this cause, the International Women's Day created this website which has a giving directory which is so perfect, it's basically a curated list of organizations doing real, measurable work. So if you're looking to donate and move things forward or help an organization, you can go into this. It's International Women's. It'll be in the show notes. So internationalwomen's day.com giving directory. And you can look up all these amazing organizations doing great work in this space. So do that if you have the time. Okay, up next, we've got the wnba, we've got the nwsl. But who's next in women's sports to hit that billion dollar league mark? Volleyball, lacrosse, softball, flag football. Kinger, we could have used you for this one. Abby and I battle it out. Up next.

Abby Wambach (13:45)

Okay. As you know, we've all been passionately following the Olympics. And the 2026 Winter Olympics in Milano. Cortina has featured the highest percentage of women athletes in Winter Game history. Yes, yes. With women making up 47% of all participants. The Games included 50 women's events, surpassing the previous record set at the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics. Now, we think this deserves a celebration. So join us and CARE this International Women's Day and Women's History Month to help level the playing field for women. Do you know how important it is for women for pay equity in women's sports that 74% of women athletes work extra jobs to make ends meet?

Julie Foudy (14:33)

I know. It's crazy when you think about that. How many still 3/4 of women athletes work extra jobs?

Abby Wambach (14:39)

Yes, we need pay equity. We also need to talk about the real impacts this has on women in sports. Leveling the playing field does not only mean that we're just watching women's sports or just creating leagues or just amplifying voices. It also means we are leveling salaries for women and closing the gap to their male counterparts. Especially because women on average won more medals for the United States at the Winter Olympics in 2026 than men. 67% went to women for gold and 61% went to women for silver. Just wanted to add that note. So who cares about leveling the playing field for women in sports? You do. I do. We do. And so does care, a global organization fighting poverty and working to level all fields for women and girls every day around the world in local communities with local leadership this march. Join them. Sign the pledge@care.org pledge. Okay, so, Jules Peloton is shaping the future of fitness with the brand new Peloton cross training tread plus power. It's the most incredible thing. It's powered by Peloton iq.

Julie Foudy (16:01)

Yeah. Have it. It is amazing. And as you can imagine, abs, I'm pretty particular about how I work out because I can't just like, run on my own anymore. I can't just run like that. Like, obviously we spent our life doing that and training that way, but it is the hardest thing. And I won't do it.

Abby Wambach (16:24)

I just won't.

Julie Foudy (16:25)

I won't do it anymore. It's not enjoyable. And that's why this new Peloton Tread plus is amazing, because you get all the classes, of course, in front of you. So you feel like you're in a class, but you can totally mix things up. You're not just running. You can swivel that screen and you can get off and start doing a little boot camp on the side. It's so cool, the swivel. I was like, what?

Abby Wambach (16:48)

It's the best. It's also. It's been a game changer. For me because, like you, I can't run, but I can't run because I have foot problems. And so the tread and the forgiving nature of the actual tread helps me to be able to actually move. I can walk on there, I can get an incline on there. I can swivel that screen. But I think what I love most is that the screen swivels in a way where I can guide and I can do the pilates on the ground. I can do weightlifting. I'm like, literally looking at this peloton plus tread. It's. It's just.

Julie Foudy (17:21)

It's in your basement.

Abby Wambach (17:22)

It's down in your basement. My wife loves it. Seriously, I'm stunned how much I actually didn't know I needed this. It mixes up my weekly routine. It's guide guides by instructors. Like, I feel like I've got friends and I've got trainers on my side now.

Julie Foudy (17:36)

Yeah, yeah, I love it too. I love it. So let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go.

Abby Wambach (17:43)

It does it all.

Julie Foudy (17:44)

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Abby Wambach (17:51)

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Julie Foudy (21:39)

The ABs the other day I was thinking about how for so long women's pro sports were literally just trying to survive. And remember we going back to NWSL's launch in 2012. It was our third women's pro league for. For soccer. And I can remember y' all were just, you know, in that phase of trying to keep the doors open, stay on the field, prove we belong, all those things. It's crazy.

Abby Wambach (22:11)

Well, it brings me back to when you were the captain of the national team and right before the World cup in 03, you had to tell us, the players that the WSA was folding, that we needed to fold it. And I'll, I'll never forget that, that. Huddle up. Because I had this thought in my head, this is not going to be the last time pro, women, women's, pro soccer exists here. I remember thinking that and feeling like if we just win this World cup, we can get something back.

Julie Foudy (22:44)

Right?

Abby Wambach (22:45)

So, yeah, it's. It's been a long road. A lot of questions, a lot of insecurity, really, because it's like you were. I felt like we were banging our head against the wall half the time because the product was good. Like the sport, the games are good, the players are good. Why won't people just come and watch? Or why won't businesses want to be a part of this? I could never understand it. It didn't make any sense to me.

Julie Foudy (23:13)

Well, now it's starting to make a little more sense because we're clearly in a different place. We've got women's soccer and women's basketball. Both those leagues have exploded. Soaring franchise values, major media rights deals, literally real investment that has finally changed that conversation. And both of those leagues, WNBA and nwsl, have each surpassed the billion dollar valuation mark. When you tally up the teams within each league and, and as we know, that's a huge win. But why that matters is once a few women's leagues cross into that billion dollar territory, as we know, it changes the rules for everyone else.

Abby Wambach (23:55)

Yep.

Julie Foudy (23:56)

And I think it answers the biggest questions about audience and investment and legitimacy. And so now that we have that box checked, the question shifts. And this is when it gets interesting. Which other sport has the foundation, the momentum, the infrastructure to build a billion dollar women's pro sports league here in the United States?

Abby Wambach (24:23)

And this is where it's going to get fun, right, Jules? Yeah, because you know, we both love a solid, good debate and we both love to win. And when we started talking about this, we realized we had kind of different ideas. And to be clear, we think it could be many leagues that get there. But today, the debate in which we will be having is who will be next? Who will get there first? Who will be the next billion dollar league?

Julie Foudy (24:51)

Is your shirt giving any volleyball vibes off? Maybe. I just noticed that.

Abby Wambach (24:57)

It's a good question. I was trying to maybe be subtle. Subtle.

Julie Foudy (25:03)

Okay, before we get into the actual debate, a little history and context. As we mentioned, wnba, nwsl. They' the only two women's professional leagues in the United States that have reached or surpassed billion dollar valuations. WNBA's collective valuation reached approximately 3.5 billion in 2025. And that was driven by a record 180% year over year increase in team values. I mean, just for example, Golden State Valkyries currently lead the league with a 500 million dollar valuation, while the New York Liberty is valued at 420 million. NWSL crossed the 1 billion collective valuation mark by early 2025. And as of late 2025, the numbers are here. Individual club valuations for Angel City, which is leading the league, is at 280 million. And the Kansas City Current is at 270 million 5 million. So as we said, it naturally begs the question with the women's sports movement that we are having, who's got next? Who can cross that billion dollar threshold? So Abs, why don't you go first? Take your pick. Who is the next billion dollar league for women's sports after WNBA and nwsl?

Abby Wambach (26:29)

Is the person who goes first usually get the get the least amount of support in a debate? I'm curious.

Julie Foudy (26:39)

It depends on your debate points, I would argue.

Abby Wambach (26:41)

True, true, true. Okay. So I think, and again, I have to say this, and I'm going to say this again at the end of this episode. This is not to dog any of the other ones. We just, we just are going with, with what we feel might be the very next women's sport. Yeah.

Julie Foudy (26:59)

Because there will be many. I think.

Abby Wambach (27:01)

Yeah, it's going to keep happening.

Julie Foudy (27:02)

The billion dollar pile of leagues will be large.

Abby Wambach (27:05)

Exactly. I believe that volleyball will be the next one. Okay. And I have a lot of reasons for it.

Julie Foudy (27:15)

Okay.

Abby Wambach (27:17)

And there's one that, that is very simple. And it's like my, my barometer is what does my wife like? What does my wife bring up? And who doesn't really? She only watches sports when I'm like watching sports.

Julie Foudy (27:35)

That's a great barometer, actually.

Abby Wambach (27:36)

And I' I have to like tell her the whole story about the sport we're about to watch to get her invested on like a human level. And during the NCAA tournament, she was like so excited to continue watching after she saw Nebraska and the people. And she was like, wait, this is something happening here. And for all of our sensitive bunnies listening to this, she also really loves volleyball because there's no, there's no opposing team touching. The teams are on opposite sides of the net.

Julie Foudy (28:10)

And she really loves that there's no contact.

Abby Wambach (28:12)

I'm going to get into better points. But I just wanted to say from

Julie Foudy (28:15)

like, no, that's, that's a huge one.

Abby Wambach (28:18)

Yeah. Okay, first of all, volleyball is the number one girls team sport. Okay. And it's the most popular team sport for high school girls, surpassing basketball in participation basically by a huge margin. Massive participation. Over 490,000 girls played high school volleyball in 2024-2025. There's interest in athletes like it's just booming. According to data from opendoors.com NIL compensation for female volleyball athletes skyrocketed 365% from year one to year two of NIL. And then the following year 2023 to 2024 saw another 123% increase. Also this like anticipated revenue sharing signals. Beginning In July of 2025, colleges can actually directly share athletic revenue with athletes under the new NCAA's house settlement. In addition to the big time sports programs like football and basketball, many Division 1 programs have said they plan to include women's volleyball in those distributions, signaling the sport is being treated as a priority in the next era of athlete compensation. Okay, and here we go again with the record breaking NCAA viewership. In 2024, it was the most. There was the most watched regular season ever, averaging 140,000 viewers per match. And that's 21% increase year over year. And in 2025, it broke that record again.

Julie Foudy (29:56)

Abby's coming loaded with stats. Who are you? I know because she is coming in hot.

Abby Wambach (30:03)

I had to do a lot of research for, for this. And I did.

Julie Foudy (30:07)

Okay, And I did.

Abby Wambach (30:09)

But I think what's also important is, you know, these NCAA games. ESPN aired four of its five most watched volleyball games ever in 2025. Nebraska, Kentucky drew 1.2 million viewers. Me and Glennon were two of them. And then listen. And then in 2025, the national championship, 1.4 million pe. This is like the pipeline, right? Like what I've just talked about is what will then make the professional leagues completely solid and ramp it with the best players. And it is the pipeline and the youth pipeline from high school to college to now, the professional leagues. That is how you maintain solid ground in the professional world. Which I think that the sponsors and the broadcast channels will just keep coming back because they, they know that those kids are going to, you know, want to be playing. Playing. Yeah, exactly.

Julie Foudy (31:07)

And I feel that that has always been the superpower of sports for women in the United States because you have so many girls playing comparatively to other countries because of this amazing law called Title 9 that was passed.

Abby Wambach (31:24)

Yes.

Julie Foudy (31:24)

So anyways, yeah, okay.

Abby Wambach (31:26)

Professional leagues. There, there's a few.

Julie Foudy (31:27)

Okay, this is, this is where I, I'm like, okay. And I'm not gonna push back yet. I'm letting you lay out your.

Abby Wambach (31:33)

Let me lay the roadmap. But I understand, I think that athletes there's. There's a few leagues. One is called Athletes Unlimited Volleyball and establishes it started in 2021. Yeah, we've got love. So this started in 2025 and it's in its second season. Love Austin and love Nebraska was up 85% on USA Network. And then there's now three new expansion teams. LA, Minnesota, Bay Area, SF. What's up?

Julie Foudy (32:06)

I gotta give myself a shirt.

Abby Wambach (32:08)

Clearly you've got three leagues. AU Volleyball, Love Volleyball and mlv.

Julie Foudy (32:14)

And a lot of professional leagues.

Abby Wambach (32:17)

It's a lot of professional leagues. But, you know, I know that a lot of these players had to go play in Europe and now there's a place for them to play here at home. And with, with the sponsorship, the TV deals, it's not a future bet. The pipeline is unmatched. Youth to high school to college to pro, it's all there. Volleyball isn't waiting for its moment, it's already in it. Volleyball doesn't need to convince anyone it belongs. Julie. It needs to organize what already exists. So let's not forget this.

Julie Foudy (32:46)

Okay? That is where I would poke my hole. It needs to organize what already exists. And this has always been the thing I feel like for women's volleyball. So I worry that too many leagues dilutes the product and the valuations and the long term confidence for investors. So I do not disagree with anything you threw out there because, you know, I am a huge believer in volleyball. But I do worry that the number of leagues then dilutes their ability to be the first sport to cross that billion dollar threshold. Sorry, first? Well, third league, first one after wnba.

Abby Wambach (33:28)

What I think is, is Larry Bird as great of an, of an athlete without Magic Johnson?

Julie Foudy (33:36)

No.

Abby Wambach (33:38)

See, sometimes you do need a little

Julie Foudy (33:40)

competition within the same league.

Abby Wambach (33:43)

Yes, sometimes you need a little competition.

Julie Foudy (33:46)

Although with Madison Skinner on, I think the greatest suggestion you ever made, let's

Abby Wambach (33:52)

have the champions play each other and see who. Who wins.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (33:55)

That's what I said.

Abby Wambach (33:56)

I wanted to have a crossover and so we can all get on the same page. I'm like, let's do it. Like if. Because everyone's like, oh, MLV is better,

Julie Foudy (34:03)

or oh, love is better.

Abby Wambach (34:05)

Like, let's really put it to the test. Or we'll build an all star team

Julie Foudy (34:08)

and y' all build an all star

Abby Wambach (34:09)

team and we'll go head to head. So it'll be interesting to see how it kind of all shakes out and to see what, what league literally rises to the top to gain this billion dollar status. But it's gonna for sure be volleyball. I know it.

Julie Foudy (34:23)

Okay.

Abby Wambach (34:25)

Do you want to try your case?

Julie Foudy (34:26)

I'm gonna make my case.

Abby Wambach (34:27)

Yes.

Julie Foudy (34:29)

I am making my case. This is gonna surprise you, I think.

Abby Wambach (34:32)

Yeah, I'm surprised.

Julie Foudy (34:33)

I am making my case for flag football.

Abby Wambach (34:38)

Wow. Yeah, that is a. That.

Julie Foudy (34:42)

Because we really don't even have a professional league yet we'll get into.

Abby Wambach (34:45)

Right.

Julie Foudy (34:46)

For flag football. But I think it's going to happen quickly and there's a few reasons why. Okay, we know in 2028 at the Los Angeles Olympics, what sport is making its debut? Flag football. Okay. So you have that huge here in the United States. Big, big news, right? It, like you were mentioning with volleyball, has been one of the fastest growing sports at the youth, high school and collegiate level. And the popularity and the numbers are booming because it's safe. It's a safe alternative to football. No contact. Parents love that. To tackle football, I should say it's inclusive. Like you could do co ed, you could do literally all sizes, similar to soccer. All sizes can play and it's accessible. And this is huge news. Literally just in January, the NCAA approved it as an emerging sport for women.

Abby Wambach (35:53)

Abigail.

Julie Foudy (35:53)

And what that means is that sets up the ability to play at all three divisions with championships and all three divisions approve that. So it's going to be a legitimate NCAA sport at all three divisions. So I just think that's going to just make the youth development programs even more robust. And perhaps the most important reason why that this will be the first women's league after NWSL and WNBA to hit the billion dollar mark. NFL. I haven't even mentioned the three letter word yet. NFL. Big bucks, big marketing, big investment. Okay. And this is their user friendly version of tackle football. So they are pumping it up because it's safer. As I said, parents love it. The problem is there's no comprehensive, like professionally yet national league right now. There are a few smaller leagues. They've got this one called Women's Football Alliance. It's been the largest and longest running. There's one called WNFC which started in 2019 and they added flag football in 2024. Women's Football alliance added flag football in 2025. So they're just now adding flag football to these leagues. There's one in SoCal that's popping up as well. But the great news is In December of 2025, the NFL voted in their December league meetings that they're gonna Support one pro flag football league. So it literally authorizes the NFL to invest up to $32 million in that league. Let's go. Who's winning the debate? So it's coming. You got the pipeline, the foundation is being laid by NFL. You got the Olympics. You got, you've got now an NFL supported league. I don't know when the heck that's going to start, but it's going to be quick. You've got college teams. Boom. Hashtag truly wins debate.

Abby Wambach (37:53)

Okay, flag football is next. I hear all of that. I think that, I think that this is interesting. I have a couple of counterpoints that I want to make to you, Jules. One being, not every time does Olympic momentum automatically translate to having a sustainable pro league. We know that.

Julie Foudy (38:18)

Sadly, we know that too well.

Abby Wambach (38:19)

We had to win how many Olympic gold medals in order to, like, you know, prove it.

Julie Foudy (38:25)

How many Olympic cults is it going to take for a damn sustainable league?

Abby Wambach (38:29)

And I also just want to say this for my heart, though. Getting money from the NFL and having them as like this big engine behind flag football, that could be a positive. I also think it can be like a big negative in that, especially for women leagues, you want to have, you want to have the right people at the table making decisions, right. That are not just worrying about or thinking about only the bottom line. I don't think that every women women's league needs to attach themselves to a men's league in order to be successful. In fact, women's, women's soccer is a proof point that we don't have that have to do that.

Julie Foudy (39:18)

It's a good point, but I would say, and this is why we're going to phone a friend, actually, because I want to hear a different side of it from someone who's in the game. So each of us are going to phone a friend soon. I do think that NFL understands that they dominate the men's market, of course, right? Like the NFL numbers they get for television broadcasts and sponsorship revenue are just in a league of their own. Like, their numbers are so much bigger than NBA any other men's sport. And what I think is they're now trying to think, how can we bring in the women's market in a. In a true form as well. You can't just stamp an NFL roadmap onto a women's pro flag football league and think that it's going to be the same formula.

Abby Wambach (40:10)

I agree.

Julie Foudy (40:11)

So, yeah, that is a good point. So we are going to phone a friend. Abigail, I think I have a rad friend. Her name is Diana Flores because she is a rock star in the flag football world. Who are you phoning?

Abby Wambach (40:30)

I'm phoning Kelsey Robinson Cook. Just like a badass. Won basically everything. Three Olympic medals. She's incredible. She's also part owner of our Love SF team, Jules. So I'm excited to actually meet her for the first time when we talk. Yeah.

Julie Foudy (40:53)

CARE is a global powerhouse for change. Abs. They are, as you know, an organization that fights poverty all over the world, and they have a special focus on women and girls. So it makes sense, perfect sense, that we are partnering with them to celebrate International Women's Day. And this year, CARE is talking about something we know really well. The uneven playing field that women face. And let's face it, every woman who has competed in sports, has had a successful career or sometimes just fought to be heard, knows it can be an uphill battle. We can have tremendous talents. We can put in extra hours at work and at home. But the truth is, the playing field is uneven, and we exceed expectations because we've learned. We often have to. And still, the truth is unavoidable. The playing field has never been level. I will say that again. The playing field has never been level. This isn't about ability or ambition. It's about unspoken barriers that honestly continue to tilt the ground beneath our feet. And despite the imbalance, women keep pushing forward. But we always find a way to lead. That's what we love about women. We excel. And by doing that, we reshape spaces that weren't built with us in mind. And that's what CARE does every single day all over the world. So who cares about leveling the playing field for women?

Abby Wambach (42:28)

You do.

Julie Foudy (42:29)

And so does care, and so do we. Every day, around the world and local communities with local leadership, sign the pledge@care.org pledge okay, party people, today we have got to Abigail. Shout out the people who kept us literally on the field. Oh. Throughout our careers. So literally, the people who taped us up, rebuilt us, rehabbed us, got us back out there, and we were always able to perform at our best, thanks to the medical professionals who always had our backs and our knees and your ankles. And the list goes on and on.

Abby Wambach (43:09)

It's true.

Julie Foudy (43:10)

And that's absolutely the case with legendary skier Lindsey Vaughn. And as we've been following and talking about her epic return to the 2026 winter, she's already, as we know, one of the goats. But now she's coming back after devastating injuries. And I'm thrilled to watch her because we know she's gonna crush at the Olympics in Milan. And Lindsay's amazing medical team and the entire USA medical team will be wearing awesome uniforms from figs. This company makes kick ass scrubs normally. And then their Olympic uniforms are are next level. They are the official outfitters of Team USA's medical team. And the great news is you can wear the Team USA collection too. It's cool, it's functional, Ups your scrub game for sure. Check out the limited edition Team USA collection and get 15 off your first order at wherefigs.com with code FIGS RX F I G S R X. That's wherefigs.com code FIGS RX.

Abby Wambach (44:19)

I'm actually gonna go get those right now. That sounds so exciting.

Julie Foudy (44:27)

Okay, party people. To help close this debate once and for all, it only seemed fair that we could each phone a friend as we talked about, to help make the case with us. Perhaps someone that knows a little bit more about the sport we're fighting for than the two of us. So, Abby, do you want to phone your friend and introduce her?

Abby Wambach (44:49)

Yes. And first of all, I know that I'm right and you know that I'm right. But in case anyone out there needs a little more convincing, I'm going to double down and phone a friend. Let's bring in Kelsey Robinson Cook. She dominated the sport of volleyball at every level. College, pro, international Olympic, three Olympic medals, the full set. Bronze in Rio, gold in Tokyo, silver in Paris, championships all over the world. She was league MVP and and loves inaugural season. And she's also part owner owner with us, Jules, at Love San Francisco. And with a baby girl on the way, she's got real stakes in what the future of the sport looks like. So if anyone has earned the right to weigh in here, it's Kelsey. Kelsey Robinson Cook.

Julie Foudy (45:35)

Welcome to the party.

Abby Wambach (45:39)

Welcome, Casey, Welcome.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (45:43)

The intro makes me feel a lot of pressure to know what I'm talking about.

Julie Foudy (45:48)

I think you're gonna be just fine, Kelsey. Okay, before you give your side of the argument, I am phoning my friend who is a flag football icon, Diana Flores. She is world renowned quarterback and captain for Mexico's national flag football team. She's a global ambassador for the NFL. She's led Mexico to multiple world championships, winning MVP, by the way, at the 2022 World Games. She also, y' all might remember, starred in the Emmy winning, fantastic, super bowl commercial called Run with It Kinger. Billie Jean King actually made a cameo in it and literally has been breaking barriers as a trailblazer for women in the Sport of flag football from a very young age. She just got named to be part of the board of trustees for Billie Jean King's women's sports Foundation. And she just came out with a new book which makes her the ultimate debate pro called Flag Football for dummies. Diana Flores, welcome to the party.

Abby Wambach (46:59)

Welcome, Diana, to the party. Thank you.

Diana Flores (47:03)

I'm super easy. Excited to be here. You have the best introductions ever.

Julie Foudy (47:07)

A thank you. Thank you. All right, Abs, do you want Kelsey to make the case first? Actually, you went first last time, so we go first this time.

Abby Wambach (47:17)

Yeah, you guys go.

Julie Foudy (47:18)

Diana, please tell us why you think women's flag football will become the next billion dollar women's sports league in the United States.

Diana Flores (47:29)

Well, flag football is living in an amazing moment in time. It's now more than momentum. It's a movement. The growth that the sport has had in the world has been amazing. Right now we have more than 20 million players, boys, girls, men, women around the globe.

Julie Foudy (47:46)

20 million.

Diana Flores (47:47)

20 million. And this growth has happened in the past, I'm gonna say, seven to five years. So that's mind blowing if you see that way. Now we have more than 100 countries that play this sport, from the grassroots to the adults. And it's just opening more opportunities for boys and girls worldwide. Now, girls in the States can earn scholarships thanks to flag football. That happens in Mexico as well. And you know that it became an olympic sport for LA28, which is a huge milestone.

Julie Foudy (48:21)

We know that.

Diana Flores (48:23)

Plus now.

Julie Foudy (48:25)

Excellent points, Tiana.

Abby Wambach (48:26)

Yes.

Diana Flores (48:27)

And it was great. Like, I got ready for this, you know.

Billie Jean King (48:34)

Thank you.

Abby Wambach (48:35)

I knew it. I knew it.

Diana Flores (48:36)

No. Plus, you know, last week actually, the NCAA admitted flag football as an emerging sport. That will be.

Julie Foudy (48:46)

Oh, we know that.

Abby Wambach (48:48)

Yes.

Diana Flores (48:51)

And I mean, this. All of these things just recently happened, plus investment from the NFL, $32 million for the Pro league. This just happened. Like, this just happened. But flag football has been growing without that investment, you know, with that opportunity, with those platforms. I think an amazing characteristic of the sport is that it's so accessible, so boys, girls can just jump in the game. You don't need a lot of equipment, you don't need a lot of investment to just put a team together and just reach every city in different countries. And that has helped flappable growth in an amazing way. So those are, like the key points, I think, why flappable is a net. The next sport, the next sport that is gonna keep opening opportunities for girls and women.

Abby Wambach (49:51)

Yeah. So amazing.

Julie Foudy (49:53)

Amazing.

Billie Jean King (49:54)

Round of applause for Diana Flores.

Abby Wambach (49:57)

Well done. Okay. And you know, I just. We've gotta, we've gotta rebut that in some fun fashion. So, Kelsey, please, can you tell us why you think volleyball will become the next billion dollar women's sports league in the United States?

Kelsey Robinson Cook (50:14)

Okay. Well, already it's the number one team sport being played by young girls in the country. So we have that.

Abby Wambach (50:22)

Yes.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (50:23)

And I think at the youth level, just in the last 15 years, we've really seen an exponential growth. There are so many clubs, so many young women playing, but beyond that, there's not just young women playing. There's. We have beach leagues, we have rec leagues across the country, we have grass leagues. So there's so much volleyball being played in the United States. And to talk about the international level, volleyball is already probably around like the third most popular sport next to soccer and basketball. And so internationally we already are a very popular sport. But bringing it back to the United States, I think there was A stat like 96 of NCAA schools sponsor women's volleyball, so.

Abby Wambach (51:06)

Oh yeah.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (51:07)

I think for me the biggest thing is the foundation is there. We've just had to go overseas to play it professionally. So it. We haven't had the chance to really like showcase professionally what it can do in the United States. And now we have that. And then the stats from first serve with League 1 to in the first year to the second year, the stats were like exponentially larger with how much viewership?

Julie Foudy (51:33)

Oh, really?

Kelsey Robinson Cook (51:34)

Yeah. I think love was blown away with the numbers of viewership from year one to year two. And you're already seeing it with USA Network. They're having some of their most watched games. So I think we've seen the growth in youth, we've seen the growth in college, and I think we're at the very, very beginning of what volleyball is going to look like in the next two, three, 10 years. I think it's going to be massive.

Abby Wambach (52:01)

Yes, that is what I'm talking about. And you guys both made incredible points that both Julie and I also made. We are going to have to take it up with the party people, which is our. The people who.

Julie Foudy (52:14)

Listen, wait. I have one question before we go to the party people.

Abby Wambach (52:17)

Okay.

Julie Foudy (52:18)

Okay. My one question is, why do so many people go play overseas? Is that because they didn't have the established league here in the United States? And so that has kind of been the pathway that was set. And then why? Because there's so many people playing in the United States already, hasn't there been?

Kelsey Robinson Cook (52:37)

To be honest, I know they've tried in the Past, like historically there has been like sprinkles of leagues that have tried, but they've always failed because I don't think they've been created with the right model. And so that was. I mean, we see it now we have two leagues, hopefully one day it's one league. But you see a lot of the Olympians backing League one because the model is done in a way that can support the growth sustainably over time. And I think if it's ever going to work professionally, this is the league that's going to do it. And we just haven't been given the chance really.

Abby Wambach (53:12)

So.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (53:13)

So that's why we've had to go overseas. And it's honestly made our national team amazing because we have to be not only one of the best USA players, but we have to be best foreigners in the world. So it's made our national team really great. And we've medaled in the last seven Olympics. And so volleyball is just having its moment and it's going to be.

Julie Foudy (53:36)

It is, it is. But flag football is about to have its moment with the 2028 Games. Are you going to try and play in those? Right?

Diana Flores (53:47)

Yes, of course. That's the next big role for me.

Billie Jean King (53:51)

Okay.

Julie Foudy (53:51)

And Mexico is one of the favorites. Is the United States also pretty good?

Diana Flores (53:57)

Of course, the United States has always been one of the top countries recently last year by first time Mexico was ranked number one in the world. So yes, I want to say we're favorites to be in the Olympics and hopefully win a gold there. But you know, again, going to the road of flag, just talent abroad is amazing. Last year in World Games China, we saw like different countries as national Chinese team going there to compete. The Japanese team, Canada, they are raising their standards, they are raising their level. So I think that's another fun part of flag football that is so dynamic that new generations now are the ones that are jumping in. You know, like they are curious, they're learning fast and it's just the beauty of the sport I think right now.

Julie Foudy (54:59)

Yeah. And anecdotally, my last point I will make for flag football is izzy, my, my 18 year old, she's now 19. She's, she's off to college, but when she was in high school, coming through, all these soccer players, lacrosse players, volleyball players. Do you know what their second sport was that they all played? Flag football, Flag no more. And yeah, and they all were like, it is amazing. It's growing so much. And a lot of them ended up leaving their like soccer background or basketball background and Started playing flag football because they loved it so much. It was really cool to see.

Abby Wambach (55:37)

I will say, my daughter in college right now, she just signed up for a flag football team.

Diana Flores (55:44)

That's amazing.

Julie Foudy (55:46)

See, Tish knows it is.

Abby Wambach (55:49)

It's happening. I just want to say thank you guys both for coming on and being a part of this fun and silly debate that we have. Because the truth is behind Julie and I is that we want every women's sports league to get to this billion dollar valuation and to have the success that they all deserve. But this was just wrapped around who's going to go next. And so please don't feel offended that I didn't maybe think flag football was going next because it's happening. We are all going to be supporting you all in 2028. And, and Kelsey, I can't wait to meet you in person in and around the. The Love SF team. We're really excited about it.

Julie Foudy (56:27)

Yeah, no, thank you so much.

Kelsey Robinson Cook (56:31)

Yeah, love flag football. I used to play football at recess.

Abby Wambach (56:35)

So

Julie Foudy (56:38)

you just confirmed it.

Abby Wambach (56:40)

There you have it. But here's the thing. This is what makes women's sports different. We all still, we all want to help and support each other. I think that that is why the WNBA and the NWSL actually have achieved the status because they've been fighting for, for each other, with each other, wearing the T shirts. Pay them what they deserve. You know, all of that. Like, that is why I think women's sports and all of these women's leagues are going to thrive and get to that billion dollar valuation at some point and hopefully in the most nearest future.

Julie Foudy (57:08)

Yes. And you guys are saying the pathways.

Diana Flores (57:12)

I'm sorry, like, I'm just, I just want to say that I'm a huge fan of each one of you. Kelsey, hopefully we meet in person soon and you said it, Abby. Like, I think this is the beauty of women in sports, that we all cheer and support for each other because somehow even if we play different sports, even if our backgrounds have been a little different, maybe we all have been through the same struggles. We all have been through the same journey. So I just want to say I feel super proud of what you have done, how you paved the way. Abby, Julie. And what you're doing. Kelsey, Chelsea, just huge fan. And yes, as you said, hopefully we can see each other winning in the next couple years and just like seeing the next generations win bigger even.

Abby Wambach (57:58)

Yes.

Julie Foudy (57:59)

So well said. That's perfectly said. Hey, will you guys close out the show with us? We're gonna do a party pose and Then we're gonna teach you our soccer cheer, and you can close out the show. Does that sound good?

Abby Wambach (58:12)

Yep.

Julie Foudy (58:13)

Okay, party people, your chance to weigh in as well. Which sport will be the first to get there. Let us know what you think and tell us what or who or which sport I should say is going to be there first. Okay, party pose on three. Diana and Kelsey, do you know how this works? You just give any type of party pose that you want. Oh, Abby's got it. Okay, on three. Three, two, one.

Abby Wambach (58:50)

Good. It's so good. And then. Okay, so on the US Women's soccer team, this has been the same cheer. So, Diana, this might feel a little bit weird for you, sincere Mexican national, but when we go into the huddle, we say usa. Usa. Usa. Ah. Because when the very first women's national team went to Italy in 1985, the Italians from the stands called U.S. uSA because that was USA that, like, they read it. So it's been there for whatever it is. 40 years now. 40 years, this has been the same exact cheer every single women soccer team has ever done. So I'm gonna count us all in. I'm gonna say 1, 2, 3. And then we're gonna say USA. USA. USA.

Diana Flores (59:39)

Okay.

Abby Wambach (59:40)

Makes sense. I like it.

Julie Foudy (59:41)

And Dana and I just have to say that is from the soul. Like, it's like. Okay. Because it's the last thing you do before you go out and play, so.

Abby Wambach (59:52)

Okay, you guys ready?

Julie Foudy (59:54)

Put your paws in. Put your paws in.

Abby Wambach (59:56)

I'm three. One, two, three. Usasa. Welcome to the Party is an independent production brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. Initial Digital is our production partner, and you can also watch our full conversations on the welcome to the party YouTube channel and follow us at welcome to the Party show on Instagram and TikTok. Thanks for listening. Olivia loves a challenge. It's why she lifts heavy weights, likes complicated recipes. But for booking her trip to Paris, Olivia chose the easy way. With Expedia, she bundled her flight with a hotel to save more. Of course, she still climbed all 674 steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route. We were made to easily package your trip. Expedia made to travel flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.