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- [00:00]
A
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B
All right. Hi there, everybody. My name is Brian. I am an old guy. I'm 64 years old. And my story is a. It's kind of typical. In the beginning, it's awful. And then I go through life and it comes back. It comes back through a lot of effort and determination. And we end up getting redemption, compensation, and most importantly, an apology, which is what a lot of people seek in their journeys. And I say we because I am not the only person that was affected by this, this whole situation. There was one other person who's my age. We'll call him David and there are many others, and I'll show that to you throughout this podcast. I guess I'll start at the beginning, start with my family. So my parents were high school sweethearts. They went to grammar school together and then high school together. They graduated from Bayside High School two years apart. Upon graduation, my dad enlisted in the Marine Corps and was sent off to Parris island for training. And then after training, he was stationed at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina. And my mom joined him and my sister Tracy was born in North Carolina. We're a large family. Five children, four boys, one girl. After my dad's tour was up, which was kind of an unremarkable tour. It was between the Vietnam and the Korean Wars. My folks moved back to New York. My dad started working as like a journeyman on Wall street, and then he got on with the New York City Fire Department. So for my life growing up, he was a New York City fireman. He also worked. He always worked more than one job. He was a great provider, great dad. A lot of kids. You know, you don't make that much money as a civil servant, but. And he was busy, you know, he didn't really have all that much time to spend with us because he was always busy working, providing for us. And I sure respect that. But he also worked at Jones beach and Robert Moses State Parks as a Lifeguard. And anyone that's been to Long island knows of those beaches. They're fantastic. They're on the South Shore, and they're just beautiful state parks with lots of area, lots of things to do. And that's pretty much where we grew up as kids. Every sunny day in the summertime, we would go to the beach. My dad would work, and we would just be free to do, you know, pretty much what we wanted. We stayed out of trouble most of the time, but we got into some mischief from time to time and again. It was just a great place to. Great place to grow up. As a matter of fact, we couldn't wait for Memorial Day. And we hated Labor Day because that was it. The summer was over. Back to school type thing.
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A
Yeah.
- [03:40]
B
But, yeah, we just tore it up. We were in the water all the time, especially if there was surf. We became experts at body surfing and boogie boarding and surfing and real wholesome outdoor family fun. It was pretty remarkable. It was awesome. Just a great way to grow up. So the summers were kind of magical for us, our whole family. We each had things to accomplish. As soon as we got to the beach, we had to get out a playpen for our younger siblings. We had to put up umbrellas. We had to get the blanket out, and then we were free. We would go swimming in the saltwater pools at the West Bath House or the freshwater pools at the East Bath House. We would just run all around the park, having a great time. There was a kids theater. There was pitch and putt golf. It was just like a perfect playground for kids. And everything was free for us because our dad worked there. Our main focus was the water, though. If there was surf, that's where we were. We just. We really enjoyed being in the water. And because of that, at some point, I think when we were. When I was about 8 and my sister was around 9, my folks started steering us towards swimming, toward AAU swimming. They asked us if we were interested in joining a team. And we were. We were very interested. So we ended up joining the Long Island Swim Club. They were called the Islanders, and they practiced in Westbury. I think it was Westbury High School. We lived in Haupaud at the time, and it was a long 45 minutes or an hour each way, two hours of practice and then 45 minutes or an hour back. So it was a big chunk of time for a growing family. When we started, we had. There were four of us. Tracy, who. I said, she's a year old. We're big on nicknames in My family. So everyone has a nickname. She's Trey. And then. Oh, I should add that when I was born, I was born a fraternal twin and we were born prematurely, so we had to stay in the hospital for several weeks. And three weeks into our lives, my mom went in, in the morning to. To wake us up and feed us, I guess, and my sister was dead in her crib. So, you know, that really rocked our family for a while. My mom was, you know, pretty shaken by that. And, you know, I think back in those days, they. Anything that they couldn't explain as far as a infant's death was called sids, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. And that's what it was, explained, explained as to us. And so it took several months to get squared away, but, you know, we were soon back on our feet, you know, heading toward bluer skies and greener pastures as a family. But that was, you know, a traumatic event for the family.
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A
Absolutely.
- [06:38]
B
So we joined the Islanders and it was a big burden. It was a big load on our family. And we hung in there for about a year. And then my parents kind of waved a white flag and said, it's just too much. A four hour block every day, five days a week. And then weekends were swim meets and sometimes they would take the whole weekend. So they wanted to take us out of swimming. And I really wanted to keep swimming because I, you know, it's kind of a strange sport. You don't, you don't get to communicate much. You don't talk. There's not a lot of camaraderie. It's just individual effort and results. So it's kind of. It's like track, except track. You can talk to each other. But anyway, so I convinced. I convinced, or I begged my parents, I should say, to let me join the Huntington ymca. They had a great reputation, a great swim team, awesome coach, super personable coach. I would watch from my coach. Bill Davis was very old and crotchety, and he was a good coach, but that was it. He had no relationship with his swimmers. And Huntington YMCA coach was different. And I could tell from a distance that he really enjoyed what he was doing. He enjoyed the kids. He was close with them. He would. He would whisper things in their ear before they. They swam. He would give them a hug, pat on the back, a kiss on the cheek, and I just wanted to, you know, maybe become a part of that. So my folks agreed and I joined the Huntington ymca.
- [08:18]
A
And I'm assuming that was way closer to your house.
- [08:21]
B
About 25 minutes. Okay, so. And and we got into a carpool situation. So it was a lot. We would drive and they would bring pickup, that kind of thing. So it was a. A lot less of a load on the family. Yeah. However. However wholesome it started out as, it was the biggest mistake of my life. And like I said, I'm old. I'm 64. It was a colossal mistake to join that swim team. And I'm going to explain why. Inside the walls of the YMCA at that time, I would say from the late 60s to the early, early 70s, was a group of men, a group of pedophiles that worked. That worked to have their way with children, with little boys, as many as they possibly could. Of course, I didn't know that. And the ringleader was Bill Nolan, who was the coach. He was the ringleader. He was. He was a professional pedophile. He had been doing it for a long, long time, and he was doing it in plain sight. It was. It was kind of remarkable. When I really look at. Look back at things, there's a lot of things that I know that I didn't know then, but I found out much later in my life. And I'll tell you how that happened, which is kind of amazing, you know, in just a little bit.
- [09:47]
A
And you were 8, right?
- [09:49]
B
I think I was probably 9 by the time, maybe. Yeah. Transitioning from 8 to 9 and then 9 puts you in a different age group. In swimming, it's 8 and under, 9 and 10, 11 and 12, like that. So I'm. So I'm 9 now, and I got in the pool there and I realized that I'm not quite the good swimmer that I thought I was. These kids are good. You know, Huntington is a kind of a wealthy area on Long island, and these kids have the means and they are competitive and good swimmers. So I had to work my way up, and I worked really hard because Bill Nolan took a shine to certain kids. You could see it. He preferred. He paid attention and really helped certain kids. And I wanted to be one of those kids. In my mind, it's completely wholesome, it's healthy, it's motivational. It's all good. There's nothing in the watch out category. So before too long, I became one of those kids. I started to swim harder and faster and I didn't miss practices, and I went to all the meets, and before too long, I was on the best relay team in my age group, which means we got all the medals and we got tons of trophies and a lot of attention, some press coverings and Things. And, you know, I wasn't the ace of the base, the star of the team or anything, but I was one of the four fastest. So, you know, that was good for me. Well, after a meet on Saturday, Bill Nolan asked my parents if I could spend the night at his house. And I thought it was fantastic. I thought it was like, wow, I can't believe this. This is so. This is so great. And with very little thought or reservation, my parents said, sure, yeah, that's fine. I mean, it's the Huntington ymca. They tout all the good things for children, and that's their marketing strategy and their logo and their brochures and everything. So everyone thinks it's all wholesome and good, and a lot of it was. But, you know, I learned much later that that's where the pedophiles hang. That's where they're attracted. That's what they're attracted to. So I went with him, and I was so excited. I spent the night at his house. We went to McDonald's.
- [12:18]
A
Was it just you and him or was the other.
- [12:21]
B
He's married and he has two daughters, so he didn't have a son, and that was his excuse. You know, I always wanted a son. I don't have a son. And, you know, Brian would be. Would be fun to be with. And, you know, we'll probably just go to a movie. I think we went to a movie. We definitely went to McDonald's. And it's funny how certain things get into your head and they stay there. I remember the song way too. You're way too young for this, but I remember the song Brand New Key by Melanie. It says, I have a brand new pair of roller skates. You have a brand new key that was playing on the radio, the AM radio in his car, and he was singing to it. Later on, we went back to his house. I slept on the couch, and nothing happened. He checked on me throughout the night a time or two, and it was all just. It seemed fine. Well, that led to more and more attention given to me by him. And the adjectives started pouring, pouring out. You're wonderful. I love you. You're so handsome. A penny for your thoughts. You have an old soul, he told me one time or a couple times. And I'm thinking, I'm nine or, how can I have an old soul? I don't even know what a soul is, really. But, okay, great. I take that as a compliment. You're so pure. You're innocent, so clean. And then, of course, well, I love you. I Love you so many times. And I remember thinking, well, I'm pretty sure my dad loves me, but he doesn't tell me that much. My dad was an old school guy, Marine Corps trained and not very affectionate, but awesome dad, disciplinarian. You knew where you stood with him. But so my. I'm sure my dad loves me, but this guy, this coach, Coach Nolan, really loves me. He really loves me. I know that because he tells me all the time. And then, of course, this is our secret. Nothing happened. What. I mean, what's our secret?
- [14:33]
A
Right?
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B
I don't. I don't know what the secret is, but the secret's coming, as you would imagine.
- [14:37]
A
So he would say that before anything even happened?
- [14:41]
B
Yeah.
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A
Okay.
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B
That was his process for grooming.
- [14:45]
A
Okay.
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B
That's what. That's what got him to where he wanted to be in the past. And I'll tell you what, it worked like a charm, because you feel such an allegiance and alliance to these people. You feel, I don't want to disappoint them. Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to hurt them in any way. And it really becomes detrimental to your own health and your own survival. It really does. But that's how it went. And then he would ask my parents if I could come in early or if I could stay late to work on flip turns or work on starts or work on some techniques. And of course, we never worked on that stuff. I'd get in my bathing suit, go through the locker room, get in my bathing suit, come out to the. Swim to the pool deck, and he'd be there in his bathing suit, and he would escort me to a. Like a boiler room that was right off the pool deck. And there were blankets in there and candles, and we would go and he would lock the door, and it just started that way. He would take off his bathing suit, and, you know, I was in awe. I was in amazement. Like, what. What is going on? Is this. Is this healthy? Is this. Is this normal? Is. And I remember thinking, is this the birds and the bees? Does everybody go through this? Is this just, you know, part of the growing process? I mean, I was a little boy, still 10 years old. I would say when this started, and he would touch himself and he would touch me, and it ended up pretty bad. I don't want to get too graphic, but just think the worst. And that's what happened over and over for a long time.
- [16:32]
A
So is this a daily occurrence? Would you say?
- [16:35]
B
He would have liked it to be. And my shields were coming up ever so slightly. I would delay at home when I was supposed to go there early. Going to be late. You're going to be late. Okay. Okay, Mom, I'm hurrying up. And I would try to get there right at practice time, which would, I'm sure, would disappoint him. But, you know, I was in the confusion and survival mode. I didn't know how to.
- [17:00]
A
Scared.
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B
Scared. Scared to death scared. I didn't want to lose him as a. As somebody who loves me, someone who's a father figure, a big brother figure to me. I didn't want to lose that. But. But it was just unexplainable, indescribable.
- [17:21]
A
And at this point, every time, it was just you and him.
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B
Every time.
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A
Okay.
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B
There was only one time at the very end when it was. There was another boy involved with him.
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A
Okay.
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B
But remember I mentioned there were other people affiliated, employed or affiliated with the ymca?
- [17:43]
A
Okay.
- [17:46]
B
And so what I suppose happened is they would communicate with each other, these three men, and when the grooming process was complete, they would open it up. No one would open it up. And then these other two. And then it became a competition between them to see who could kind of making a. Make a. A. An appointment with me, you know, in. You know, just to put it.
- [18:17]
A
Yeah.
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B
So generically, he.
- [18:20]
A
So his name is Bill. Right. So he wasn't the only one doing these things to you. So it was him and then these other men as well.
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B
Right.
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A
Okay.
- [18:29]
B
So the second person that sexually molested, abused, raped me. His name is Wayne Lampe. And he was not employed at the ymca. He was just a misfit who was like a person who hung around the ymca. So he's a big guy, overweight guy with a crew cut. Think of, like, John Candy and Goodman. I can't think of his first name, but just a big goofy misfit. And he. He presented himself to me and he eventually invited me to an Elvis. He was an Elvis Presley freak. Ask me how I know, but I know. And. And even to this day, he's an Elvis Presley freak. So going back, he invited me to an Elvis Presley concert at the Nassau Coliseum. And it was a concert at night. And for some reason, my parents let me go. They just. They said, sure, which I don't really understand. I mean, I love my parents. They're great. My dad passed away. My mom is still doing well. I love my parents. But they just had so much trust and faith in the powers that be at the ymca. And they assumed that he was an employee of the ymca. Just because the brand is good, that doesn't mean that all the people inside that brand are good. And that's where they're gonna hide. Yeah, they're gonna hide under the good, wholesome brand.
- [20:21]
A
You wouldn't assume that that would happen.
- [20:23]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So he took me to a. The first outing we had together was to a. An Elvis concert. And it was fantastic. You know, I was a little boy. He gave a great show. He was kind of in decline at that point, but still, for me, it was amazing. Unbelievable. Like, maybe today, like a child going to Taylor Swift or something. I don't know. So on the way home, that's when he. He started doing his thing to me. He had a Lincoln Continental, and driving home, he. He just put his hand in my pants, and he was just, you know, doing his thing. And I remember being, you know, really uncomfortable. He had me move. It was a big bench seat, so he had me move over. And he was actually driving through my neighborhood at, like, 2 in the morning. We kept passing my house as he was, you know, exciting and pleasuring himself. And I remember saying, you know, my parents could be looking out the window. Or. He said, oh, no, it's late. Nobody's looking out the window. You know, they were very calm and. And this was their thing. And they were. They were, you know, as sad as it is to say, they were very good at it. And we weren't. We were just little kids, like, wondering, where is this going? What. What is this about? Is this. Is this okay? Yeah. Confusion. Massive confusion.
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A
Did you ever have an urge to tell your parents? Or did you just kind of know within yourself that if you did that you'd lose everything, all the relationship that you built with them?
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B
Yeah. I never. I never understood why I couldn't tell them, but I never had the urge when I was told that you can't. I never had the urge to tell them. And they were so busy being good parents and raising all our. You know, my. Okay, so I talked about nicknames as Trey. My nickname is Boo. Danny is Bird. He's four years behind me. Timmy is Fuzz. He's two years behind Dan. And then Sean is Snoop. He's the last. He's 10 years younger than me. So we always had, like, younger kids that we had to help take care of and my parents took care of. And so everybody was busy, not really, I guess, paying attention. And remember, we grew up in the. In the days of it's a nice day. Go outside.
- [22:47]
A
Right.
- [22:49]
B
We'll see you Later. Yeah, where you could ride your bike without a helmet, you could drink from the hose, you could modify your bike any way you liked, as long as it didn't cost money. So we had steering wheels on our bikes. We had sissy bars, we had long forks. We had.
- [23:04]
A
Times were different.
- [23:05]
B
Yeah, right. Times were different. And were they better? I don't know. I don't know. Kids today seem to be way more involved in organized activities where we would just get a football, start knocking on people's doors. Hey, you want to play football? And we would go to the park and play football for a few hours. We weren't in a. In an organized setting where you paid for it. And you know what I mean, where it seems like most kids are today, which, you know, probably for good reason, because parents want them looked after, they want to keep an eye on them. So going back, he would. He took me on his. He had a bread route. That was his job, wonder bread route. And he would get up early and do his bread route, go to all the stores and squeeze the bread and take it out and switch it up. And he was done by like 11 or 12, so he had nothing to do, I guess. And he went and he hung around the YMCA and he found a little niche at the ymca, which was devastating to kids like me. And why would the YMCA let this kook hang around? I mean, he hung around the baseball stuff, mostly the baseball kids and the baseball team. And as some type of. I don't know what he was, first base coach or something, but he wasn't getting paid. And so how did he get over to the swimming kids? How did that happen? I never had any interaction with him whatsoever.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So it was always constant. It was always several days a week with Nolan, his name is Wayne Lampe. I said, I think. And Nolan Lampe or the other guy, his name is Chris o'. Connell. Let me just finish with Lampe and then I'll go over to o'. Connell. So Lampe, very friendly with another family, who I won't mention two brothers, one older and one my age. Very friendly with them and their, their parents and, and I remember they were of German descent. The mom had a big accent. But they trusted him. Somehow he gained their trust. Well, he took me and the other two boys, the brothers, on a. On a trip, a week long trip to Lake George. One time he had a boat. We towed the boat and we would water ski during the day. And then at night we were in a tent, we would grill and then we were in a tent and the first night was great because we grilled, and it was just a fun time. But that night, he was all over me. He had me naked in the tent, and he was just. It was awful. It was awful. And then every night after that, it was the same thing. So after dinner, I would, like, wander away from our little campsite and just throw up. Just throw up in the woods because I knew what was coming, and I couldn't find a way to avoid it. I couldn't find a way to escape. The other two boys were in the tent, and I'm sure they were in survival mode, and they just pretended they were asleep because there's no way you could sleep through it. I was wailing. I was. I was scared and just crying, and he didn't care. It almost turned him on more. It almost made him like it more, you know, kind of like, I don't know, like a rape scenario or something.
- [26:46]
A
And did you ever discuss with those other boys what happened, or.
- [26:51]
B
No.
- [26:52]
A
No.
- [26:53]
B
No. It was like I was in my own little stovepipe, my own little nightmare. And I wouldn't share it. I wouldn't talk about it. I started to become a zombie. I mean, I couldn't talk to kids because what would I talk about? What if something slipped? I couldn't talk to adults because for some reason, Nolan told me, I can't. This is our little secret. It doesn't feel right, but probably there's something wrong with this then, but you're just too young. And while you're trying to develop your sense of right and wrong, you're being fed all this wrong information and you're trying to process it, like, wait, that's not how it's supposed to be. So it's very confusing. And I started to get, you know, change. My personality was changing. I was quiet. I was. I was just. I was experiencing. I was exposed to a lot of trauma, and I was experiencing ptsd. Right. Everybody thinks that it's associated with war, and, you know, that's probably the most raw form of ptsd, Right? It's. It's bang. It's in your face. But there's a lot of ways to get the T. Absolutely. And you know better than most people, you know, there's a lot of ways to get the T and ptsd, and that's the trauma. And. And, yeah, unfortunately, a lot of people experience trauma in different forms and what have you, but. So that was that trip. It was horrible. Never forgot it. Never. I'll never forget it. He left the other two boys alone. Because I was new, you know, I was, you know, I was the new kid in town and I would assume. But you know, a few more unfortunate transactions with him, which were devastating in their own way. And then the third pedophile that was in the pedophile ring at the Huntington YMCA was Chris o'. Connell. And he was a former victim of Nolan. So maybe Nolan's first victim when he came to. When he came to coach the ymca. Now he was not just the coach Nolan, he was the aquatics director. So he owned all things to do with the pool area, the locker rooms, the pool, everything. He had keys to everything in the ymca. And you know, he had a good reputation for some strange reason maybe among the parents and the directors and everything else. But so now o' Connell is fighting for me too. I can tell that, you know, do you want to come to my house on Wednesday or what? No. No, I can't. And then they would go around me and go right to my parents. And I think, I think with o' Connell a time or two, he made it sound like I was going to be with Coach Nolan and he was just asking for Coach Nolan, but of course I wasn't. He was taking me to his house and he was, he was a druggie and he was all messed up because Nolan had screwed him up for his life. Yeah, he was just a mess. He was, he was aggressive, he was mean, he was. I'm pretty sure he was on drugs, but like I said, very, very aggressive. Did you know that the modern adoption industry was basically created by a woman who stole babies and sold them to wealthy families? Hi, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal, where you can hear that story and plenty more just like it. We take you inside the minds of our most notorious felons and outlaws, exploring the dark side to the American dream. You can listen to American Criminal wherever you get podcasts or@americancriminal.com.
- [30:59]
A
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- [31:01]
B
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A
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- [31:15]
B
And you know, as I tightened up and resisted and tried, you know, passively to not go through this, he enjoyed it. He enjoyed the physical, the fighting part of it and. And it just scared the heck out of me. It again. I cried all night long at his house. It was disgusting. House. I think he lived in the basement of his parents house or something. He was just a complete mess. He ended up dying from AIDS many years ago. He was very, very aggressive and just. He was not a good person. But that was the third person that I was exposed to, affiliated with. And it was dreadful. So things are progressing. Not in a good way. They're moving along, and I'm kind of going down this big hill. And one day after a swim meet, Nolan asked my parents if I. It was a Saturday if I could spend the night. And I remember being in the background, like, you know, I like the guy, but I like him at restaurants and I like him. I don't like him at, you know, after hours.
- [32:28]
A
Yeah.
- [32:29]
B
And he asked another boy who. I won't. I know who he is, too, but I won't name him. And so both of our parents. His parents. My parents said, sure, yeah, okay. You know, I guess they figured. His parents figured he'd be with his. Their son would be with me, and it would be just a wholesome, you know, fun evening. Well, we got in his car and we started driving. And he said, let's go to the Y. Let's go back to the YMCA. It's like 11 o' clock at night. And he said, we'll go swimming. And I remember saying, we can't go swimming. We don't have our bathing suits. He said, oh, you don't need bathing suits. Don't worry about it. You don't need bathing suits. So we went to the Y that night. Like I said, he had keys to everything, and we kind of ran amok. We were allowed to do whatever we wanted. We threw kickboards, we dove off the bleachers, we had gunfights with the starter pistols running all over the place. Naked at the YMCA in the middle of the night. We were allowed to scuba dive with tanks in the deep end of the pool with no training, no anything. I don't think we even wore masks. We just, like, held onto the or put the tank on our back and breathed through the regulator. Well, at some point in the night, I was running on the pool deck and I slipped and I fell and I banged my chin on the pool deck. And you know how facial cuts are. They bleed a lot. And it was a lot of blood. And Nolan kind of freaked out. His whole demeanor changed, and I couldn't understand why. I remember thinking, I get cut lots of times. No big deal. But think about that. If you end up in an emergency room, a small child with a man who's not your father or related to you, and you were just at the ymca, running amok with scuba tanks, naked in the pool and everything else, you were Doing.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah. Not a good luck.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah. If word gets out about that, you know, his whole house of cards could come crashing down.
- [34:33]
A
Right.
- [34:33]
B
So that's what he sees. And I don't see. I don't. I don't see that. But he closed up my chin with a butterfly bandage, and it closed up and stopped bleeding. And now it was time to go to the showers. And we get in the shower, and he says. He says, I bet I can give you guys the biggest boner you've ever had. And I'm thinking, what is that? What does that mean? And he did his thing with the other boy and then with me, and he wanted us to touch him. And we wouldn't. We're just. We wouldn't. You know, it was embarrassing. You know, he'd done his thing before with me solo, and now it's with another kid. And anyway, what happened next is the little. The other boy went home and he told his mom or his parents everything that he had experienced, which was the tip of the iceberg compared to what I had experienced. Yeah. And the whole house of cars came crumbling down, not in the way that you would expect, but I'll explain. So word got out of what Nolan did, and the YMCA sanctioned his move from Huntington ymca, Long island to Metairie, Louisiana. YMCA in Louisiana. Metairie. Metairie, Louisiana.
- [36:08]
A
So they just moved him to another location.
- [36:10]
B
They paid for his move. They gave him a positive recommendation so he could get the job.
- [36:16]
A
No consequences, though.
- [36:17]
B
Dark of night, he left town. No police, no nothing.
- [36:22]
A
And nothing with the other two at this point. Right? It was just him.
- [36:26]
B
Just him.
- [36:26]
A
Okay.
- [36:27]
B
Just him. I'm not really sure how the fallout was with the other two, but my parents called me into the living room, which was kind of a rare thing because we had a living room, but nobody ever went in it. Yeah, it was for special occasions, I guess, but they called me into the living room and asked me what happened, and I was very vague. I denied everything first. I just denied it. And they said, no, you know, we know things happen. So, you know, you have to. You have to tell us, because we've heard. We've heard things, and we want to know what happened with you. So I told him just the minimum. Just the minimum. And I only told him about Nolan because that's who was caught. I didn't mention the other two at all. I didn't mention Lampe or o', Connell, and that was. I quit. I quit AAU swimming at that point. I just. It was a giant. I don't Know, it just. I had to quit. I couldn't continue to swim. There was just too much there. But I remember initially feeling sad because I disappointed Nolan, because I let him down. And I wanted to tell him that I'm not the one who told. That was important to me for some reason, where he should have been locked up. But I still was under his spell. I'm pretty sure my dad. I know my dad called him at some point, and I'll tell you later how I know that, but I think the parents were told by the YMCA that we'll take care of it. We understand. We know it's important. It's a big deal. We'll take care of it. And the YMCA did nothing. They didn't tell the Suffolk County Police. They didn't do anything. So they didn't protect us before, during, or after. And just as importantly, they didn't protect the little kids in Metairie, Louisiana, who were getting this monster coming to their facility, to their ymca. And of course, he continued his rampage. He continued it for those poor kids. I'll tell you how I know all this in a little while. But my life was. Was destroyed. I was. I was. You know, initially, I felt sadness, and it started to evolve into reality, and I started to realize that this guy didn't care one bit about me. If he did, he would have said goodbye. He would have talked to me. He would have, you know, if I was that important to him. But he never did. He just. He just ran out of town in the middle of the night. And so my feelings started to evolve. I started to get angry and resentful, and a whole round of different feelings started to take over. I still had.
- [39:29]
A
I was gonna say there's just so many different emotions there, because it's like, even though in those moments, you knew it was wrong and scary, you were. So at that age, you're just like that. Those kind of experiences are molding you.
- [39:44]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [39:45]
A
You know, and it's just absolutely. It makes it just so confusing.
- [39:48]
B
I was probably 12 at the time, or maybe just turning 12 or something like that. So.
- [39:53]
A
So all this went on for about two years, then two to three. Okay, got it.
- [39:58]
B
Yep, exactly. Which is a long time. You know, think about it. He should have been locked up. There's no question about it. We should have been protected. So I started to act out in antisocial ways. I started to rebel. I was very difficult for my teachers. I got in a lot of fights for no real reason. I was just becoming a real pain in the Neck to my family and my, you know, just. I just had nobody I could talk to. I needed therapy and I needed counseling. I needed, as a minimum, I needed that. But there was none of that. None was provided. You know, the days were different. You weren't. It wasn't so acceptable, I guess to ask, I don't know, but it didn't really come up like, you know, it didn't really wasn't presented to me as a, as a 12 year old kid. Well, my favorite pastime became shoplifting. So I would hitchhike to malls around my home and shoplift and I'd bring these silly little trinkets home and nobody really asked where they came from. Well, one I shoplifted in Huntington, which is, you know, where the YMCA was one weekend and I got caught and I got hauled to the Suffolk county police station and my mom came and picked me up. My dad was a fireman. He was working a night tour, so he wasn't. Or a day tour, so he wasn't going to be home until later. And my mom briefed him, I guess over the phone before he left the firehouse. You know, no cell phones back then. And he walked in the door and I remember I walked downstairs because I, you know, going to face him and he punched me right in the mouth like a man punch, like I went flying across the sky, across the room, hit the wall and slid down. He picked me up, sat me down and he read me the riot act. I had been hanging around the kids who were at risk, the kids who experienced trauma, I would assume at some point. The kids who smoked and drank and cut classes and they weren't athletes, they were just lost souls and if they didn't get a correction, they were going to live a very difficult life. In and out of the law, I would assume. But those were my people because they were dysfunctional and so was I. My dad changed all that, you know, and he. One thing he learned from the Marine Corps, I gotta say, is the rule about good order and discipline. And he was a disciplinarian and that works for some kids and it doesn't work for others. It worked for me that he was a disciplinarian and I thank God he was because he set me on the right path. He told me who I was gonna hang around with and who I wasn't. He. He mentioned kids by name and he told me that I was going to join a sport doesn't have to be swimming. He didn't care what it was. But are you going to join A sport. And this is right when I'm going into, like, ninth grade. I was young for my grade. I was 13 when I went to ninth grade. I was 16 when I went into my senior year of high school. So I'm 13 years old and I decided I'm going to go out for football. I didn't know anything about football. I didn't know how to put on a jock strap. I didn't, you know, the pads. I didn't know anything. And these other kids had been playing, you know, peewee football or what have you. And I went out for the football team. And I was skinny swimmer, you know, I wasn't really a football player at all. And I was terrible. I was like a human tackling dummy. I was terrible. The only time I went on the field was for kickoffs. And I remember dreading when we would score because I'd have to go run down the field. And I'd run down the field and I would get hit from someplace that I didn't even see the person coming and just get rocked. One time I got hit so hard my helmet turned. It wasn't on backwards, but it was on sideways and my cleats came flying off. That's how hard I got hit. So I had to straighten out my helmet, then look around, grab my cleats and run off the field in my socks. And that got a lot of hysterics from my team because I was terrible. It was a freshman football team and they kind of had to play everybody. So that's the only reason that I played. Sophomore year, same thing. I got a little bit better, but I was terrible. Small, immature for my age. I think that whole thing I went through kind of stunted my. My puberty period or my mature. My maturing possibly. I'm not exactly sure, but it seems like it. In 11th grade, the coach, the coaches sent me down to the JV. Normally, 11th and 12th grade, you're on the varsity, but they sent me to the JV team. And that was perfect. Just what the doctor ordered. I became a player. I became. I wasn't a superstar, but I played. I never left the field. I was on offense, defense, kickoff teams, punt teams, return teams, everything. And I really learned how to play. And then by my senior year, I was good. I was a good football player. And that's. That's what saved me because I was able to. To pretend that I was like everybody else. And I remember in my senior year, I think it was after the football season, where I. I sat down and I thought. And I committed myself to putting this away, to taking all that happened, jamming it into a little tiny box and putting it in the back of my brain and keeping it closed. I wouldn't tell anybody. No one will ever know. This is my secret, and this will never come out. Not gonna. I'm just never gonna think about it. And. Which is. Which, of course, is probably ridiculous. Any kind of therapist or counselor would tell you that that's probably 180 degrees out from what you should do, because this is, you know, it's festering in your mind, and, you know, it can present itself and at any time, in any way, I would think. But that's what I did. And I was able to do that. I was. I was starting to function as a normal high school kid. The first three years were like a wash, but now I'm starting to seem normal. So my senior year came and went. I remember, oh, I was supposed to go into the arm, into the military. I got into a fight with another kid from another school, and he wanted to take me to court, which is weird, because it was just a fist fight. There were no weapons. Nobody got really hurt. So my recruiter told me that I can't process in until this court thing is over with, which was a blessing in disguise, because I realized at that point that I wanted to play college football. I wanted to continue, not because I really wanted to go to college, but I wanted to play football. So, you know, it's okay then, you know, to get a. I think it's a good thing to want to go to college, I think. And my dad was surprised, and he helped me get a loan, and he made sure that I knew that it was my loan. $10,000. We borrowed for the whole four years, which. Different day, different times back then. So I ended up going to a small school in Florida my freshman year of college, which was perfect for me because it was like 13th grade, rather than a real football program. And they put me at tight end. So I'm not sure if you know the positions in football, but it's Travis Kelsey. That's what he plays, right? So when Travis Kelsey gets on the field, he wants the ball. He wants the ball. He wants Mahomes to throw him the ball. When I got on the field, I didn't want. I didn't want them to throw me the ball because I couldn't. I could hardly catch. And if you're a tight end who can't catch, you're not in the right position. You're. You're just. You're just not. I made some good friends there. Two. Two good friends who are. Who are best friends of mine to this day. And my second. My second year of college, I went. I transferred to Cortland State, which is upstate New York. Very good football program, Division 3, as a matter of fact. In 2023, they won the national championship for the first time in their history. So we didn't come close to winning a national championship, but it was good football. So I went up there. I went up and played football for four years. It was a lot of competition. It was some really good players, good athletes. But I ended up starting all four years. I started as a line. I played linebacker. Now I switched over to linebacker, which is on the defensive side of the ball. So it's more like hitting and tackling than running and catching. So like I said, I started all four years. My last two years. The team elected captains. They voted, and they voted me captain to be captain twice two years in a row, which was a big honor for me. It was. You know, I was really coming out of my shell. I was starting to become a normal person socially, and, you know, my life was. Was kind of turning around and. And things were looking good.
- [49:44]
A
So between college and then whenever everything came back, was everything just pretty normal? I guess you could say it was.
- [49:52]
B
But in hindsight, I realized I was running from myself.
- [50:00]
A
Absolutely.
- [50:00]
B
Yeah, I was running from myself. And the way whenever I got bored in a profession. I've had a lot of professions. I'll tell you about them. Whenever I got bored, I would look for the next one. I would look for a big change. And that's how I tried to stay ahead of my demons, ahead of my shadow type thing, you know, when I was busy. No problem, right?
- [50:22]
A
I was gonna say, keep yourself busy so you don't have to confront and think about.
- [50:27]
B
Yeah, I don't have to drift. Drift back into that. You know, get startled awake and. And realize just what I had been through and what was in my mind and my memory and stuff. Okay, so when I was growing up. Let me just go back a little. When I was growing up, my dad made it clear to all of us, the five of us, he said things in a very gruff way. It's just his personality. There's a book called Shit My Dad Says it's by Justin Halpern, and it's hysterical. The. The comments that. That Justin's dad says, they're. They're just hysterically funny. And William Shatner tried to do a sitcom based on that, and it was called, you know, shit, my dad says with the, the words kind of blocked out, you know, so, you know, you couldn't say or whatever. But. And the show was actually terrible. It just was not. It wasn't funny. But the book is hysterical. And my dad had. My dad would say things like that all the time. And one of the things he said to us, he said, hey, boo, just so you know, when you're, when you turn 18 your will be on the lawn, all right? That's where you're gonna find it. Meaning when you're 18, you're out. You're out. Yeah, dude, I'm done. You know, I've been feeding the birds for this whole time. And I can respect that. It's a little raw, you know, it's a little rough, but I can respect that. So I knew he meant it. We all knew he meant it. So during the course of my growing up, I made sure that I took different tests to have something to fall back on to as a possible career. So in high, I think in college one summer, I took the FAA air traffic controllers test. Took it. Forget it, forgot about it. You know, just when I was a senior in college, I. I need to add this senior year, captain of the team. The first game of the season in, let me think, 1982, long time ago. It was actually 9, 11, September 11th of 1982, which didn't have any significance at the time. They were giving the New York City fireman test, the FDNY test, the initial test, the initial written test. And because of the address that I had been using, my grandmother's address in Bayside, Queens, I was to take the test in base height on a Saturday during football season. The first game of the season. So what do I do? Do I. I mean, football is not going to be a career for me. I play Division 3. It's great football, but it's just fun. It's hard. I mean, we're good athletes, but it's not. Almost no one's going to go from Division 3 to get to having a career or getting paid to play football. So I had to talk to my teammates and I talked to my coaches and I made the decision that I was going to go take the test. So I missed the game and I went to Bayside and I took the test and I was hurrying through the test because I was going to try to get back by the second half of the game. You know, it's three hour drive or whatever. Ridiculous. Part of the way through the test, I Realized, you know what? Stop. Just stop. Let's do one thing. Let's do it right, and, you know, we'll be back in practice Monday. So I did that, and I. I got 100 on the test.
- [54:14]
A
Wow.
- [54:14]
B
Yeah. So I was in the. You know, there's many other sections. You have to do a physical evaluation, doing a lot of the skills that are required, and then you have to do a medical. So it was phase one, and I was in good shape, but then forgot about it. Went back to Cortland, finished the season, finished school. My degree is in phys Ed. So I went back to Long island and I lived with a couple guys, and I started teaching and coaching. And almost unanimously, the teachers that I spoke to advised me to get out of teaching, don't teach. It's not the same. The kids are different, the parents are different, the administrators are different. There's no money. And, you know, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but. But I can take a hint. So I realized, you know what, maybe I should just try to find something else. Besides, there was a lot of time off and the setting was just a little too familiar. So a friend of mine's wife was a flight attendant for American Airlines, and she told me that American Airlines is starting to hire flight attendants. And I said, oh, that would be fun for a little while, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Can you get me an application? So she did. I filled it out. They invited me to an interview in New York City. And I think at the last minute, I decided to go. Took the train into the city, had the interview, did well enough. They invited me to Dallas. A couple weeks later, second interview. And in Dallas, I remember there were just a lot of people around for this process, for the interviewing, and they were just really beautiful people. Back in those days, flight attendants had a certain. Certain look characteristics that the companies were looking for. And I did well enough on that that they offered me a job. So I left New York, went to Dallas for training. With six weeks of training, you didn't get paid, but they gave you room and board. Piece of cake. Got through that, started flying as a flight attendant, and it was fun. My roommates were Joe Lopez, he's from New York, Craig Donahue from Minnesota, I think, and then Freddie Noah, he was from Hawaii, and then me. And we roomed together. We had no problem. Just. There was never any arguing or bickering or anything. It was just a really fun, easy time. Strict standards for weight and grooming and all that, but no issues. Became a flight attendant and I was doing that for a while. I knew it's not something that it wasn't something I wanted to do for a long time. So I just had fun doing it. About 10 months in, the FAA contacted me because, remember, I told you I took that test, forgot all about it. They called me and said, yeah, you know, we can offer you a class slot in Oklahoma City. And like I said, there was a lot of time off as a flight attendant. And, you know, time off was kind of a spooky thing for me. So I resigned from American. Oh, I want to tell you this, that. Because it leads to a good story later. I kept my ID card from American. I never turned it in. I don't know why I didn't, and I'm not sure they asked me for it. They just forgot. So I kept it. I still have it today. So I go to Oklahoma City, said goodbye to my friends in Dallas, went to Oklahoma City and started training as a controller. And it was kind of horrible. It was, you know, in college, I was. Passing was good enough for me. Right. If 2.0 was passing, I don't need to get a 3.0. It's just. I don't know, it's not. It's not a smart way to go through life. But that's, you know, that's what I. That's the way I did it. And the training was intense. It was five days a week, seven and a half hours a day of classes. So, you know, in college, you might have 10 hours of class a week. So every day and a half was like a week of college. And when I went there, I figured, oh, okay, I bought a motorcycle for transportation, and I figured, oh, great, I'll go to class, I'll lift weights, exercise, and then study a little bit and go to bed. Well, no, there's no time for anything but studying. There's so much material. And they were actually trying to wash people out. That was part of their business model at the time, which seems crazy, but that's what they were. That's what they were doing part of the way through. The fire department called me, and I went back to New York to take the second phase of the test on a weekend. And then I came back to Oklahoma City, and by that point, I was finished with the faa. I just. It wasn't for me. I got behind in my class and I just resigned and went back to New York and became. I worked at. Oh, I worked at the beach in the summertime also, like my dad did. I took the test when I was 16 years old. And every summer between college, I would lifeguard at the beach, the same beach my dad worked at because he retired. And I took his spot. Kind of got that out of order a little bit. But I went back to the beach and waited to be called by the fdny. And later that summer, they called me. I went to training. Training was a ball, it was a breeze, it was a lot of fun. So different than the faa. And after six weeks of training, I went to my firehouse. It was a 37 engine on 125th street in Harlem, right in the heart of Harlem. And it was great. It was great. So many good people, so many good experiences. So now I'm a brand new fireman. And. And one night I went out with a friend of mine. It was a lady, but she was just a friend. We were just friends. She was dating somebody else, a friend of mine or something. So we went out in midtown to a place called the Jukebox. And we were just sitting and, you know, talking and having a beer or whatever at the bar. And four young ladies walked in. And I remember looking at the last one that came in and I said, well, wow, she is pretty. I need to. I need to try to meet her somehow. I need to meet her. So I'm basically a chicken. So I had to have another beer and maybe one more, and then I had to take a leak. So I wait in line. Go do that. And I'm thinking, what am I. What am I going to say? What am I going to say? And I came up with the perfect line. The perfect line. I remember. Yeah, that's it. That'll do. I ran it by my friend and she said, yeah, that sounds pretty good. So what happened is I went over to this pretty girl, and I'm from New York, born and raised in New York. And I kind of like shoved her a little, pushed her shoulder, and she kind of turned. And I said, so you want to dance or what? And she looked at me like I was crazy. And she said, no, no, I don't. And I said, okay. And I left. And I never said another word to her that night. That's not what I wanted to say, but that's what came out of my mouth. She was dancing with someone. And so I went over to the people, the three girls she came in with, and I wasn't nervous talking to them at all. And I asked them, I said, so, who's your friend? And they told me her name was Belinda. And they told me they were roommates. And I said, oh, you must be students if you're roommates. They said, no, we're flight attendants. I said, no way. For who? They said, American. I said, oh, you're no kidding. I was a flight attendant for American. So do you know Tim o', Sullivan, Sherry Feis, Debbie Dillingham? Oh, yeah, we do. They put us through training. I said, yeah, they put me through training. And that's it. That's all I got. I didn't talk to her again that night, or all I got was her first name. So the next day I woke up and I went to LaGuardia Airport because I want to try to find out who she is and meet her. I still had my id. So I knocked on the door to operations and it was a little window and held up my id. And a young girl let me in. And I thanked her. I said, I forgot my keys. I got dressed nice. You know, you're supposed to get dressed nice back in those days. So I started looking through the mailboxes for Belinda, their file folders, and they're listed like first two initials and last name. So I wouldn't.
- [63:22]
A
Right.
- [63:22]
B
Yeah, I wasn't gonna be able to find it. And then some girl saw me going through them and she asked if you could help me. And I told her what I was looking for, but all I know is her name, Belinda. She goes, oh, I know her, but I don't know her last name either. No. Okay. So thank you. Anyway, she came up with from a binder, she found her name, so she gave me her last name. So I had her first name and last name and she gave me her employee number and I thanked her and I asked for Crew Scheduling's phone number and she gave me Crew Scheduling. So they're the ones who assign trips to you. And I went home and I called Crew Scheduling and I said, hey, I'm a Dallas based flight attendant, and there's a New York based flight attendant that left the bag on the plane and I'd like, I put it in operations. I want to tell her where it is. And the guy said, you know, we can't give out home numbers. And I said, okay, well, it's in ops. And she was probably never going to find it. And someone probably walk away with it. He said, well, I guess I can give it to you in that case. And he gave me your home number. So I'm living in Bayside, Queens, and you know, there's five boroughs. There's Nassau county and Suffolk county, there's Westchester, there's New Jersey, there's Connecticut, you know, all in this area of people who would go to New York City. So I didn't know where she was. She could have lived two hours away, three hours away, whatever. I called her up and I said, you probably don't remember me, but I asked you to dance, and you said, no. And she said, oh, yeah, I remember. And I said, oh, okay. Well, do you want to go out sometime? And she said, sure. When did you have in mind? I said, this is Saturday now. And I said, how about tonight? She said, okay, yeah, that'd be fine. And I said, okay, great. Thanks. And I hung up. And I didn't ask her where she lived. So I called her back, and she was waiting by the phone. She said, yeah, I figured you'd call back. Well, in all of those places that I mentioned, she lived in Flushing. I lived in Bayside. She lived in Flushing, which is about a mile away. And that's where I was born, in Flushing, too, you know, all those years ago. So we went out that night. We went to a place called the Minstrel Boy. We had a great time. And rest is history. Yeah, the rest is history.
- [65:31]
A
That is wild.
- [65:32]
B
Yeah. She's just a wonderful, wonderful person. She's what has kept me out of the insane asylum for my whole life. So lucky.
- [65:43]
A
That's amazing. I love that story, though.
- [65:45]
B
Yeah, it's true. So where are we now? We lived together, and then we ended up getting married. We got married in 87.
- [65:55]
A
And so I have a quick question. Did you at, you know, during this time of getting to know her and then marrying her, did you fill her in about anything that happened to you as a child?
- [66:06]
B
Yeah, much later.
- [66:07]
A
Okay.
- [66:07]
B
Much later. I did. She had gone through trauma, too, as a kid. Different, but same subject, but just a lot of different circumstances.
- [66:17]
A
But it took you time to kind of open up about that.
- [66:19]
B
Oh, yeah, a lot of time. Yeah. Because. Yeah. I didn't want her to know that.
- [66:24]
A
Yeah.
- [66:24]
B
You know, that I was damaged type thing. So now I'm a fireman, and she's a flight attendant. And we moved out to Long Island, East Islip. We. We started living together, and then a movie came out in 1986 that changed our lives. Top Gun. I saw Top Gun. We saw it together. And I started to think, you know, why can't I do that? I have a degree. My degree was kind of silly, you know, Fizz Ed and I barely got by, but why can't I do that? You know, maybe I could try that. And my wife was Such a good person that, you know, she just said, hey, if it'll make you happy, let's give it a shot, you know. So I applied, I took a test, I qualified, and then I applied and they turned me down. They said, yeah, thanks anyway. Good luck. I have that letter still. And so I was working at the beach and the firehouse, and in the winters, it was great. I wasn't working at the beach in the winters, but the firehouse was busy. We were putting out a lot of fires, a lot of fires. You know, in the wintertime, the Bronx and Harlem at that time kind of burned down. You know, people did dumb things and a lot of fires, a lot of work. In the spring, we slowed down and I wasn't working at the beach. So I get really bored. And that's when I first applied because, you know, my ghosts start to come out, right? And in the summer, I did the lifeguard thing and the fireman thing. So I had like three or four days off the whole summer. That was it. And we would spend the days together at the beach, Belinda and I. And it was really good. It was really wholesome. It was a lot of fun. She was a runner. She would run for hours just down the beach. And I remember, you know, looking at my watch, wow, I wonder if something happened. And then down, all the way down to the beach, I would see her, just her little. Yeah, you know, little silhouette coming and. Okay, she's okay. And then in the fall, the beach would stop and it wasn't cold enough for people to light their apartments on fire accidentally. So I would get bored again and look for change. Eventually I went in. I got into the Navy and I went in as an nfo. Do you know what an nf. Okay. Did you see Top Gun?
- [69:00]
A
No, I have not.
- [69:01]
B
You have not seen Top Gun? Okay, so an NFO is. He's not a pilot, but he's up there. But he doesn't fly the plane. He does other things. He works weapon systems or radar systems or depending on the plane. Yeah, he's up there. So normally I say Goose and Top Gun, and everybody knows what that, what that means, but. And my goal, my plan was to change to pilot as soon as I got there, which is impossible. That they, you know, they think you're insane. You tell your drill instructor and he says, yeah, I want to be a pilot, too, and I'm not going to be a pilot. Neither are you now. You know, hop and pops or side straddle hops or push ups, you know, get them. So you get very strong when you do something like that. Long story short, I was able to. It's a whole different book, a whole different subject. I was able to go from NFO to pilot in training. Yeah, I almost went too far. Where they wouldn't. If I got winged as an nfo, that would be it. I'm done, I'm an nfo. But I was able, through a lot of, a lot of effort, just a lot of work and a lot of, you know, turn downs, like, no know. And I was pushing the age limit too. I was 27 and a half when I got commissioned. And that's very close to the limits as far as going to flight school and being a pilot and stuff, because I did five years on the fire department, but I got it and then I went to pilot training and so went into the Navy. We got stationed in, while we were training, first in Pensacola and then in Corpus Christi. Our first daughter was born in Corpus Christi and then we took her out to Hawaii where I was going to be stationed, where I was stationed. And then our second daughter, Emily was born in Hawaii. And, you know, did my tour. American Airlines opened a base in Hawaii. So Belinda worked there. And it was, it worked out perfect. As good as it could be. As good as it could. But I mean, I would go on six month deployments in the Navy, you know, and I went on three of those, which is, you know, it's a year and a half out of your family's life. But it was great fun, great experiences, great. Another, another book on the side there. But yeah, everything was going along good, just fine. I did about 10, I did 10 years active duty and then I decided I wanted to get out and fly for the airlines. So I applied to different airlines and I eventually got hired by American Airlines and I still did the reserves on the side. I ended up getting a, having 22 years in the Navy and flying for American. So you start off as an fo. You're not the captain, you're the first officer. Did that for a bunch of years and then made captain and, you know, just living the life, raising kids. Our son Brian was born when we came back to Florida. Florida. So out of all of us, I was born in New York. My wife was born in Colorado. Our oldest was born in Texas. Emily was born in Hawaii and Brian was born in Florida, which is kind of typical of a military crew. You know, they're all well rounded, they're great people. They do awesome. All our kids do. So now I'm with American and then I flew to the MD80, the 737, the Triple 7, and now I'm a captain on the 737. So I'm just working, living, working, kids, activities, the whole thing. And in 2018, I went on the computer on Facebook, and I saw a post from the Huntington ymca, and I kind of freaked out. I, like, froze. I didn't want to know what it said. It just. The box opened up. In the back of my mind. It had opened up before, like, when the Penn State, Jerry Sandusky stuff was coming out. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Yeah, I'm sure you are, with your field. Yeah. Okay. So also Larry Nassar with the women's gymnastics. The movie Spotlight, it highlighted the Catholic Church. All the stuff with the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts, you know, all these different periods when these things opened up and they became front and center in the news. It would just wreck me. And my wife understood. She knew she had to give me some space, some room. It would take an hour, a day, a week for me to get. To get all this back.
- [73:48]
A
Yeah.
- [73:48]
B
You know, it would just, like, open.
- [73:50]
A
Up an old wound for you.
- [73:52]
B
Yeah, it would. It would. And it would haunt me. And I'd get it, put it back into this box, close it, put it back in my mind, and.
- [73:58]
A
Right.
- [73:59]
B
I'm good to go again. So that's what. That look. Just looking at the logo of the Huntington ymca and. Were you a swimmer at the Huntington YMCA in the early 1970s? I couldn't deal with it. I had to, like, regroup. A couple days later, I went back, read it, and sent a reply. An answer came back, and I'm going to call this person David. He responded, and we started a dialogue, communication, just typing, just through the computer. It eventually led to a phone call, and we talked. And then for the first time, I realized that I'm not the only one.
- [74:45]
A
But you didn't know him at the time.
- [74:47]
B
Nope.
- [74:48]
A
Okay.
- [74:48]
B
Never met him. He's my age, too. He's actually six months older than me, and he lives in New York City at the time. And it was fascinating talking to him because, for one thing, I learned that not only was another boy involved, but there were probably other boys involved, but I didn't know any. I mean, aside from the ones that were with me when it happened. Right. The two brothers. And then the other boy that I talked about, I started to realize this could be a lot bigger than. A lot more encompassing than I had originally thought, because I didn't Want to put too much thought into it anyway, you know, I just wanted to walk away. So through our dialogue, our conversations, I talked to him a couple times a week. Started to change my mind. It started to change my focus. And I didn't. For the first time, I didn't want to just push this away and ignore it and deny it and pretend it never happened. Now I wanted to. I wanted to go in a different direction. I wanted to hold somebody accountable. I wanted to find out more details about it. I wanted to know why nothing was done for us and why the law was not involved. These were crimes. These were serious crimes. They went on for years. Why wasn't this the news? Why all these questions? Like a whole list of questions. So I was, he's a little more passive than I am. He's a super nice guy, very smart, very talented, super nice guy. I started to change my focus, but I also started to learn about him. So my defense was to constantly move, constantly move to a different. Either a different house or a different career. Just taking my wife with me, but constantly moving to different variables in my life so I could be productive, so I could stay ahead, stay ahead of my shadow, where I was running from. And his life broke in a completely different direction. And it just shows how people's responses to trauma vary so much. Right? You could be living under a bridge on a cardboard box if you can't compartmentalize and put it away. Or you could live with the pain and have a productive life. Or you can get help and be the healthiest out of all three. We were somewhere in the middle, But David broke in a completely different direction than me. He fell apart. His life was a nightmare previously. He was in a good place now, but he had been a drug addict, he had been an alcoholic, he had been addicted to. Strippers and hookers and sex and. And just things that were not productive, that didn't pay that his life was rough. He had a lot of therapy, he had a lot of, I'm sure, you know, like I said, he did a lot of drugs and things like that. But he came out of it. He got the help he needed. He came out of it. He was, he was healthy, he was productive. He ran his own company, a non profit organization that helped kids in New York at risk kids in New York. And it was based on art. So he was an artist, he had a talent, but very different than me. Very just, you know, my life was more. I could hide my past. Yeah, he could not. His, his past was like he was.
- [79:03]
A
Forced to face it.
- [79:04]
B
Right, right. And, you know, he didn't have a dad growing up, but his mom was, was there. His mom was strong and he had a brother. But let me, let me make an illustration, if you don't mind. So there's. During World War II in the Pacific, we were fighting the Japanese, and at one point. The government decided that we needed the island of Iwo Jima, which is like a stepping stone to the main island, Okinawa of Japan. They decided we needed it. And it was inundated with the Japanese. It was very, very intense fighting for weeks, very intense fighting, death, people getting maimed all over the place. Many, many Marines died. Well, there's a famous picture of them raising the flag on Mount Suribachi. It's at all Marine Corps bases. And the five or six guys that raised the flag became kind of well known. It was a little bit of a controversy who actually raised it. But two of the guys that got charged with raising it, that got credited with raising it. One, his name was John Bradley, and his son, James Bradley, wrote a book called Flags of Our Fathers. And another guy that helped raise it, he was a Pima Indian Marine, young kid, 22 years old or something, Ira Hayes. So both these guys helped raise the flag. And what they saw before that and after that on Iwo Jima was devastating. They saw people killed, maimed, their innards coming out. I mean, James Bradley, oh, John Bradley was a corpsman, a Navy corpsman. So he was the first one to come to these people who were groaning and screaming and arms cut off or legs or, you know, he knew who was going to make it, who wasn't. In other words, trauma, experienced trauma. And so did Ira Hayes. Just in the, in the course of battle, these guys ended up going back to the States and getting on the USO tour to promote bond war bond sales. And, you know, they used that famous picture as part of it. Well, after the war, John Bradley went home, he opened a funeral home and he raised a family and he lived a normal life. And nobody knew that he had anything to do with the war until he died. His kids went up into the attic and opened his foot locker and he had a bunch of medals. He had, you know, it was. They learned that he was one of the flag raisers and all this. And they couldn't believe it because he compartmentalized this trauma. He put it away and he moved ahead like it never happened. He didn't want to talk about the war, he didn't want to think about it. That's how he Coped. This other guy, Ira Hayes, he was dead at 32 years old. He was an alcoholic, and he died of alcoholism and exposure. He fell asleep from drinking in the cold, and he died 32 years old. So that's the extremes of how people. How they cope with stress, with trauma.
- [82:50]
A
Right.
- [82:51]
B
So our. Our situation is not as dramatic, but I coped by ignoring it and pretending it didn't happen. So David, he got help. He had therapy and counseling and things like that. And he started. He came out in a good place, but it took him a long time. He never married, never had any children. But so just so you get an illustration of what he looks like, he looks like he could be Tommy Lee's brother. He dresses like that. He. He dresses like my son does. And it's really cool. He's a young, young soul. Just cool guy. Cool guy. So we started to feel the unity and a little bit of strength. And I said, you know, it's devastating what they did to us. We should try to learn more and we should try to hold them accountable if we could, if we can. The two of us are talking. Yep. And so we were talking and doing a little research, and we discovered who the. What the law firm, who the law firm was that represented the Huntington ymca. And I wrote them a letter, a long, two and a half page letter, vaguely describing what we had experienced. And I remember in the letter, I said we wanted to meet with them. And I said, you know, if you decide not to meet with us, we're not, you know, we're not prepared to tell anybody. We're prepared to tell everybody. So, you know, we might as well meet and, you know, you can answer our questions or whatever. They sent me a letter back from the law firm. We really don't know what you're talking about. That was a long time ago. Things are different. We have no recollection, no records. We don't know really. So the two of us, David and myself, were pondering what we should do, you know, what's our next move? This is in its infancy, right? It's not. It's nothing. It's just two guys who are trying to get some answers about something that happened a long, long time ago. They sent me another letter unprompted. They just sent me another letter. And it was very short. We changed our mind. We want to meet with the board. You can meet with the board of directors of the ymca. Perfect. Now we need a lawyer. We get this lawyer from New York City. His name is Jonathan Sack. He's a character you should see him now. He's in really good shape. I mean, I didn't even recognize him. He's in like. He's just in incredible shape. But back then he was big and kind of sloppy. Yeah, he looked. He just was not real neat. But he was a New Yorker and a character. And so I met him. David found him, and I met him and I was like, he's perfect, let's do it. So we went with him. And the day that I met him was the first day that I actually met David. That was the first time we had a face to face in New York. We had breakfast together and then we went and met Jonathan Sack. We went out to Westbury, to their offices, and we sat down and we talked to them. And I have to hand it to them, they were receptive. We met with. I think I have his name, James Taylor and Ann Brigas. Taylor was the president of the board of the ymca. I don't know if it was YMCA Long island or Huntington ymca, but he was the president and Ann Brigas was on the board. And we met with them and they were very receptive. They were respectful and receptive. And they realized there was something there. We weren't just making up stuff. We had no proof. We had just our memories, nothing. What exists? What proof is there from 50 years? So we met with them and they said, okay, we're gonna have to go back and talk to the rest of the board. We don't meet until the summer's over. Everyone gets a summer break, I guess, and we'll get back to you. Okay, the. That sounds great. Thank you so much. We all went home in our separate ways and I started following things. And in New York, Governor Cuomo, when he was still, you know, considered a good guy, was. He was the governor of New York and he had. There was a preferential bill that he wanted to pass, and it was to be called the Child Victims Act. This was like on his agenda. He wanted this to pass. And what that bill would do, supposedly, is it would open the window to crimes against children. It would vastly open the window. The criminal side was over. You couldn't open that. That's closed. The statute of limitations is up long time ago. But this was the civil side where you could possibly have an expanded window to take someone to court civilly. But it wasn't passed. And the big controversy was something called the. The unlimited look back and what. Supposedly what they. I was reading up on all this. Reading up, reading up. I was becoming an expert. I knew as much about this. As the lawmakers from New York, the unlimited look back meant that there was no statute of limitations for one year. In other words, if you could prove that something happened in 1800, you could have a lawsuit against them. If you could prove something happened in 1930, you could have a lot. But how could you prove it? What proof is there? There's no video proof. Everyone's dead. So, you know, it was a nice. It was important that it would be added. But what would it do for most people? I don't know. It would help a few people. Okay, so the summer, we don't hear anything all summer. The summer comes to an end. I can't really remember exactly what happened, but after election day, the legislature in New York changed from Republican control to Democrat control. So now Cuomo is going to get to put his bill in because he has the votes to get to do it. The Catholic church, the Boy Scouts of America, were adamantly against the unlimited look back. They didn't want it and they came up with all kinds of lame reasons why they didn't want it. But we know for obvious reasons why, right after the legislature went, it tipped Democrat by a couple votes. The YMCA made us an offer they didn't hear. All we did is sit down in that office one time, if I remember correctly. I won't say amounts. It was a reasonable amount. And I said to my lawyer, I said, tell them to double it and this is for each of us. And they came back like a day later. They said, yep, they'll double it. And I said, tell them to forget it. Now we're gambling, right? We need a lot of things to fall into place. First of all, we need proof no court is gonna. Is gonna. Okay, it sounds good, you know, I'm sure something happened, but prove it right. We need to prove we needed the unlimited look back because this is almost 50 years.
- [91:04]
A
Meet the computer you can talk to with Copilot on Windows working, creating and collaborating is as easy as talking. Got writer's block? Share your screen with Copilot Vision to help spark inspiration and use Copilot voice to have a conversation and brainstorm ideas. Or maybe you need some tech help with Copilot Vision. Copilot sees what you see. Let Copilot talk you through step by.
- [91:24]
B
Step guidance so you can master new apps, games and skills faster. Try now@windows.com copilot every statute of limitation has long since expired. So we needed the unlimited look back in there. A lot of political forces are pushing not to have that in there. We don't want that. We don't want that. And Cuomo supposedly is going to sign this. He wants to sign this bill in January of 2019. David and I are tight. We're communicating a lot. I'm doing a lot of research. I have my finger on the pulse. I kind of have a feeling of how this is going to go. I have a good feeling that they're going to put the unlimited look back in there. And would that be enough to make our case? I don't know. In January. I can't remember the date, but it's a Sunday night and I'm on reserve with American and American Airlines calls me, Crew scheduling called me. Hey, Captain Mooney, we have a trip for you. Okay, great. What do you have? Tomorrow you're gonna fly to Phoenix and you're gonna lay over for 20 something hours and you're gonna fly back one leg to Phoenix and then back to Miami. I said, okay, sounds great. Thanks a lot. Have a good night. I started to think, who lives in Phoenix? Nolan lives in sun city, which is 30 minutes north of Phoenix. I have 20 something hours. I'm gonna go knock on Nolan's door. That's what I'm gonna do. So I called David. Hey, David, how you doing? Yeah, good. What's up? Not too much. What's up with you? You know, same old. I said, okay, I'm going to Nolan's house, I'm gonna knock on his door tomorrow night. You're gonna do what? So that's so. So I made the drive from Vero, which is 150 miles, to Miami, met my first officer, met the crew, flew from Miami to Phoenix, get to Phoenix 10 o' clock at night. Ish. Which is, you know, that's one o' clock in the morning for me. Body time. Right. Three hour time difference. Told my fo, I'll see you tomorrow. I got something I got to do. Rented a car, still in uniform, drove to Sun City and went to his address and there was no car there or anything. It was just like these little apartments with a carport. Knocked on the door, nothing. Knocked on the neighbor's door. A lady came out and I said, yeah, hi, I'm an old acquaintance of Bill Nolan's, and I was just wondering if he lives there. And she said, oh, yes, he does. He's a wonderful man. He's just a really nice man. He swims all the time. And I said, yeah, that sounds like him. And she said, can I give you his number? And I said, sure. So she got A roster of all the people in that neighborhood apartment complex. And she gave his phone number. And I went back to my car and I kind of set up a stakeout to watch. Well, time was ticking by and it was getting late and I was getting tired. I already had a long day and I'm starting to fall asleep and I look at my watch and it's like 11:15, which is 2:15 body time. So I just decided, you know what, I don't know what's going on. Maybe this isn't going to happen. So I start driving back to my hotel in Phoenix. And then I got some kind of an omen. Some kind of a feeling like, wow, like the leaves just rustled or something. Something changed. So I turned around, went back and sure enough, his car was in the car parked in the carport. So I drove around the block and I parked behind him, T bone style, just in case, you know, things got weird and I don't know why I just did that. I got my stuff together, got my nerve up, you know. Remember last time I'd seen him, I was a little boy. I got my recorder, put it in my pocket, you know, I had a uniform shirt on, put in my pocket, set it to record. And I walked up and I knocked and rang this doorbell. Well, this man came to the door, this old man. And I didn't recognize him at all. I kind of looked, I was in shock. And he looked at me and I'm in a uniform. He doesn't know who I am or what I'm doing. And he said, who are you? And I said, I think I made a mistake. I'm sorry to have bothered you. I was looking for somebody. And then again he said, who are you? And then it clicked in my mind. My brain was able to age this person. And it was him, it was him. He was a white haired old man. And then I kind of snapped too. And I said, I told him my name and I said I used to swim at the Huntington ymca. And he like turned white as a ghost. And I said, can I talk to you? And he let me in. And as he was letting me in, he said, you father called me. And I remember saying to him, yeah, you're lucky that's all he did. Because, you know, my father was a big strong Marine guy, you know, he was, he was, you know, he meant business from time to time. So I went in and I was completely unprepared because I didn't really have. I half didn't expect this to even take place. But I sat there with him for over four hours. And he just talked and talked and talked and talked, and I recorded every word. He couldn't stop talking. He felt like what he was doing was righteous. He was exposing these boys to something that they may not have had a chance to experience and how would they know? And just all kinds of twisted logic. He was a psychopath for sure. Well, I also learned. I think I learned this beforehand, but I learned that he spent time in prison, but not for anything that he did to any of us in New York or in Metairie, Louisiana. He went to prison for 19 years. 19 years because he had another little boy living with him. From the time the boy was 8 till the time the boy was like 12 or 13. And the boy was like his sex toy. And this boy was completely. His name was George. I remember through court records I read, and his name was George. But George and his mother are the only ones who were able to put him in jail. And he's registered as a Class 3 sex offender, which is the worst kind.
- [98:29]
A
And that's just from that one instance, one time.
- [98:31]
B
He never paid any price.
- [98:33]
A
Right.
- [98:33]
B
No repercussions for anything that he did to anybody else all through his life.
- [98:38]
A
Right.
- [98:38]
B
And I started, you know, I'm listening to him and I was asking him different questions and I wasn't such a good interviewer. I was more, you know, kind of shell shocked.
- [98:51]
A
Yeah.
- [98:52]
B
But I found out that he had over 60 victims, I think most of them at the YMCA. And you could probably double that, you know, if you wanted to be accurate, you know, because I'm sure there was a bunch that, that were meaningless to him. Maybe a one night stand or something with a kid that just quit the Y and that's the end of it. But 60, long term, you know, I'm going to wreck your life. Relationships with kids, with boys. So at some point, he would have talked forever. I finally, you know, I looked at my watch and said, I got to go, man. I got to fly back. I got to get some rest. And, you know, I was like frazzled and I was in another world getting this information. So I drove back and did my trip. About a couple weeks later, with my wife in tow, we went back and she stayed in Phoenix. But I drove up to Sun City, sat down with him again for another four or five hours, and he just couldn't stop. Just couldn't stop. And my questions were much more directed this time, much more valuable to be used as evidence. Not just generic. I was asking him questions and Asking him names and asking him details. Right, right. A lot more details. Yeah, sure. Well, that, that, that came to an end. My wife is Twig, by the way. That's her nickname. Twig. And I went back, flew back to Florida, and I talked to David and I said, you know, you're interested? You want to. You want to meet with him? He said, yeah, I do. You know, for his own mental health and therapy and whatever, he felt it was important. So we went, I told Nolan that I had a surprise for him. And he was like a kid in a candy store. He was like, oh, boy, I can't. Oh, great. Awesome. You know, he thinks that we're gonna, you know, we're trying to be pals or whatever. So I picked David up at Tampa. No, no, that was a different. I picked him up at Phoenix Airport and we drove up there and we sat down and he was phenomenal. The quest. He was like. He was like one of these TV shows that you see with the police. Good Cop Get Bad Cop. He was like, right, right here on Nolan. And he was just, well, what about this? What about that? And Nolan actually said in his comments, boy, you're very direct. And I'm thinking, man, home run, that the evidence you're getting is just incredible. There's no way they could deny this. He's telling us what he did. He's admitting it. And he said to me something that just described me to a T when I was a little boy. And I was like, yep, yep. Anyway, the next day we went back and he took us to a swimming pool. And he's strutting around like he's a peacock and like we're his little toys or what have you. And, you know, we're in our 50s now. He was pushing 80. He drew us a map of the Y and all the different areas of the Y. He was in charge of the whole thing. He had keys to everything. He was the boss. He was the aquatics director. And like a peacock. He was so proud. And that was it with Nolan. We got what we wanted. Yeah. We didn't bother him. We didn't. We didn't threaten him. Arizona is a one party state, which means that if you have an interest and you want to record somebody, you can do it. Other states are two party, right? If I want to record you, I have to get your permission to make it legal, to make it usable in court. Right? Okay. So we got what we needed from him. We have it all. It's incredible. I called the lawyer, I said, dude, we have evidence. And he was thrilled because it was all circumstantial before that. Well, I decide, you know what, going to look up Lampy, I'm going to find out where he lives and I'm going to go knock on his door. Why not? He lived in New Port Richey. He lives in Newport. If he's still alive, he lives in Newport Richey, Florida, which is about three hours from me, right across the state. He's on the west coast, I'm on the east coast. So I drove over there, I borrowed my son's camera, I drove over there and I set up a stakeout outside his house. I mean, I don't know what a stakeout is going to do after 50 years. But it was garbage day and the folks were starting to wheel their garbage out. So I decided, oh, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go get my windows tinted and then I'm gonna buy some garbage bags and some gloves and I'm gonna take his garbage. And so I get my windows tinted. Took a couple hours, got the bags, went back. By the time I went back, the garbage was picked up, it was gone. And it was a lame idea anyway because what purpose would it serve? So after sitting there after dark another hour or two, I decided, you know what, this is useless. So I went home. I didn't plan on knocking on his door yet, so I went home. Wasted day. About a week later I went back and this time I knocked on his door and he answered the door and I recognized him right away. He's still just big, fat, out of shape, crew cut, pathetic. And he kind of opened the screen door and I walked in and I'm in his house and it looks like a shrine to Elvis Presley. There's, you know, plates, there's his shower curtain, was even Elvis Presley. It was ridiculous. It was absolutely ridiculous. I mean, just, he had statues. He had. So people would have pictures of like their family, right? He had a picture of Elvis Presley, you know, on the wall singing or something. Just crazy. So I sat down with him and he was way. I don't think he's a sociopath. He's just a pedophile. Where Nolan was a full blown. Yeah, nut. So I sat down with him and I had, I didn't tell him, but I had my recorder going, which could be a problem because Florida is a two party state, right? But he's talking and he's just talking about how he taught driver's ed and how he helped to register kids for preschool and, and this kind of stuff. And it's. It's really bothering me that he's. That he's been around kids and stuff. So he starts talking about, you know, he's reminiscing about the. The fun he had, the glory days of his up at Huntington YMCA and stuff. And he. He. He started talking about a time when he took. He said, oh, yeah, I took this boy, and this boy, he. He said, their names. I just don't want to use their names now. And Brian. And I paused for a second and I looked at him and I said, yeah, that's me. And then he realized. He realized, you know, what just happened? And he kind of. He. He took a. A moment and then he. He said to me, I'm sorry. He just like a very low, I'm sorry. So he knew what he did was wrong. He knew he was on a different level. He was still a creep, he was still a scumbag, but he. He was on a different level. He wasn't insane. Yeah, he was just wicked. And then I. I kind of got the sense that. That he was getting a little bit uncomfortable, and I didn't want to ruin my future with him. So. So I just said, you know what? I'm visiting with you. And. And he's in terrible shape. His feet are terrible. And I said to him, as an in for the next time, I said, you know, I bought a foot massage machine at Patrick Air Force Base a little while ago, and it seems to really work. I could bring it over. You could maybe. Maybe it'll help out your feet. He goes, yeah, yeah, that would be great. Okay. All right. I shook his hand. I said, so long. And about a week later, David. I mentioned to David, I said, do you want to sit in front of him? And he jumped on. He said, yeah, you know, this is all for his mental health and his process, David. So he said, yeah. So I picked him up at the Tampa airport. We came up with a plan. I said, I'm gonna go to the door with this foot massager. He's gonna let me in, and I'll be inside, and then wait a few minutes, and then you come to the door. And then when he comes to the door, just open the door and come in. If we go together, he might just slam the door, and then we're in a whole different situation. So it worked like a charm. I'm in there, I'm pretending to set up this foot massager. Ding dong. And then in comes David. Now we sit down. And now we're like, on a different. We're treating him a little different. We're not mean, but we're firm. And I told him, I said, listen, here's the situation. Florida is a two party state. We need your permission, we need your permission to record you. If you give us your permission, we're going to get what we need. We know a lot. You don't know what we know. But we know a lot. And we just want to find out some more. We just want a few more details. If you give us your permission, we'll probably go away. You'll never see us again. If you don't, we're going to leave and we're going to put you on the lawsuit and you're going to have to take, you're going to have to bring yourself up to New York, get a lawyer, and you're going to have to testify and you're going to be going to court and you'll probably be named in the lawsuit. So it's your call. And he agreed. He said, okay, you can, you can record me. I'll answer questions honestly and you can, you can record me. And then I said in this. Other stipulations too. From this point forward, you don't work with children anymore. Your days of being a driver's ed person are over. And you're not helping these little kids. You're not pretending to help these little kids register for preschool or kindergarten or whatever you're doing. That's over because he had a newspaper article that, you know, oh, look what I'm doing. And you call that lady and you tell her you're not doing it anymore. That's it. And I'm going to check. And if I find you're doing it, I'm going right to the law and to the papers or whatever, but you're gonna feel it. And he agreed. So we sat down a couple hours and we asked him. Like I said, David was like a master. I was sitting back like, wow, this is good.
- [109:05]
A
Master interrogator.
- [109:06]
B
Oh, boy. Yeah, you know, people are good at different things. And, and he just came prepared, very pointed questions where he couldn't weasel out or find a way out. So we got all that on tape. And then when we were leaving, I know we spooked them pretty good because when we were leaving, I said, remember, we know a lot and if we find any discrepancy or there's more out there, you're going to hear about it. So give it some thought. Before we even got home, he called me and he said, wait, there's about other Names. And he gave me like three or four other names. One of the kids who he mentioned actually played professional football for the Jets. Wow. For several years. And I tried to get a hold of him. I called and I only spoke to his wife, but he was not. Apparently he was not interested. He just wanted to keep things quiet, buried. So that was it. We had, we had hours and hours of tape, confession, pretty probably close to 20 hours. Okay. So for us, we. Everything had to take place in a specific order, otherwise it wouldn't make sense and it would not meet the requirements to be a, an effective lawsuit. So everything right in a row, all these dominoes had to fall. So the Child Victims act had to pass. First of all, the New York State legislature had to go from Republican to Democrat. It did. The Child Victims act had to be a priority. It was, it had to pass. And it had to have the, the unlimited look back as part of it. Right. So for a year, once they pass it for a whole year, you can look back forever. As long as you could prove it.
- [111:03]
A
Right.
- [111:03]
B
That's the burden is the proof. Right. That's, that's the hard part. I mean, you might get a little bit of sympathy, right. But you're not going to get the, the hardcore win unless you have proof. So that, that passed in January, I think it was, it was to be effective like a few months later. So we still, we had like a year and three or four months that we could. We had unlimited look back effective for the window was open for like a year and three months or something. But so our lawyer drafted the lawsuit. David so, and so and me versus the Huntington ymca. And they agreed. The YMCA hired a different law firm, which was a good move because that first law firm seemed like kind of clowny. But they hired a different law firm in New York City. We set a date, we hired a mediator, famous mediator, although I can't recall his name, he was from Boston. They flew him in. And we sat down at these law offices in Midtown. When we got into this office, you know, they had three or four people. We had David, myself and Jonathan Sack. And then we had the mediator. When they sat down, I can't remember, I guess their lawyer was going to start because it was their law firm. They were the home team and we were just the visitors. But David just played some of the prime recording recordings and they have fell out of their chairs. They, their mouths opened and they were right, we need to, we needed to talk. And then from that point, they, I think they let us do opening statements after that or something like that. But then they went to their room and we're in our room and the mediators going back and forth. And the mediator, the first time he came back to our room, he said, oh, I have never seen anything like this. I mean, these were full blown confessions to this, to Nolan. It's like it happened yesterday. His recollection, you know, those were his glory days.
- [113:22]
A
He was so proud of it.
- [113:23]
B
Yes, exactly. He was proud of it. That's. That's what made him famous, you know, that's what made him. Somebody was doing. Doing that to little boys. So we wanted an apology, we wanted acknowledgment, and we wanted compensation. And we got all of it.
- [113:43]
A
It's incredible.
- [113:43]
B
I'm not allowed to say how much.
- [113:45]
A
Yeah.
- [113:46]
B
But it was comfy, it was comfortable, and. Yeah, it was. It was rewarding. I know this has been a big burden for my wife, you know, dealing with me for all these years, and, and, and she's just such a great person. Just really, really good. Salt of the earth. Family is everything and. And she's really helped me through my life. But I kind of wrote down a statement.
- [114:17]
A
Yeah.
- [114:18]
B
If, you know, I'd be reading it. Of course it's not perfect. You know, I kind of wrote it last night. Like in the middle of the night, I woke up and I was like, oh, man, I need to say something.
- [114:28]
A
Read it, please.
- [114:29]
B
Okay, I'll give it a shot.
- [114:30]
A
Yes.
- [114:32]
B
See? Okay. So I guess a question would be, why am I doing this? So much time has passed. What's the point? What am I after? I guess what I'm after is I want to send a message. Everything for us was completed on that day of mediation. We got the three things that we needed to really put this behind us and move ahead. But the reason I wanted to come here and speak to you through your podcast is because I want parents to understand that just because an institution is wholesome and good and has a reputation for that, that doesn't mean that the people inside that institution are wholesome and good natured and good intentioned. And you have to be aware of that. What's the old saying? Why do people rob banks? Because that's where the money is. So why do you pedophiles. Why do they flock to institutions where there are children? Because that's where the children are. So hunting through ymca, they have all these different code word buzzwords and stuff, and they sound really nice in their brochures and what have you, but so that attracts Children. Oh, great. Okay. Yeah. I want to be a soccer player. I'll start there. I want to be a footballer. Baseball or swimmer, but it also attracts the nuts. And as a parent, you have to, you know, don't be afraid. Look at all the symptoms and look at all. Look at your kids. If your kid's changing, if he's being more quiet, if he's not going out and playing, if he's. Or she. She. Whatever. Whatever it is. You know, you just have to be aware. And most parents are. But you can't be afraid to say stop. Wait a minute. Hold on a second. This doesn't seem right. Or I guess that's my message, you know, and then if you find something, don't stop. Don't stop. Go till. Till you're. Till you get what you came for. And there's going to be plenty of people that are going to try to make you stop or not do it or. Or, you know, think you're crazy or what have you, but, you know, get the outcome that you need for your own health and the health of your family and stuff. But I just. I guess if you don't mind, this might sound a little corny, but I'll go ahead. Okay. So I say here, I want to make it known that every despicable, disgusting and illegal act done to me was done on Huntington YMCA property or by employees of the Huntington YMCA or by people known by the Huntington YMCA who were allowed to manipulate and sexually torture the children for many years. This was. It was almost sanctioned how they just closed their eyes, and it was a long time ago. And I'm assuming. I'm almost certainly. I'm almost sure that the YMCA is way more aware and they do a much better job. But in those days, they didn't.
- [117:51]
A
Yeah.
- [117:51]
B
And that affected a lot of kids. A lot. I know of. Nolan brags about 60 plus kids himself. And if. If the YMCA had stopped it in Huntington.
- [118:04]
A
Right.
- [118:04]
B
Those kids in Metairie, Louisiana, and that other boy, George. Not boy George, but the other child George, would not have had to experience that. And their lives would be much better. But the YMCA let them go.
- [118:19]
A
Yeah. They turn their blind eye.
- [118:21]
B
Right. And that's. That's probably the most devastating part of this to me. I mean, if you don't know, that's one thing, but when you do know, you have to do the right thing.
- [118:31]
A
Yeah.
- [118:33]
B
Anyway, so that was page one. And the YMCA never lifted a finger to offer therapy or counseling or even comfort in any way to the dozens and dozens of children who were preyed upon by their own employees for many years. They just. They just hung us out to dry. They didn't do anything for us. And that's so contrary to their core mission statement and all that, all that other stuff. Finally, I'd like to say that I was just a child, as were the dozens and dozens of victims of the Huntington YMCA and their employees and associates who committed these heinous crimes. Every child has value, as does every human being. Yet in the 1970s, the Huntington YMCA thought they could just discard me and all the. All the others. They just thought, send him away, pay for his move and let this go away. They never owned up to the fact that they destroyed a lot of people. And it was devastating. They allowed us to be preyed upon in the cruelest of ways and then simply set us adrift in the world to silently sink or swim. And they had no follow up with us at all. Just I quit swimming. And they didn't care. Yeah, that was it. The Huntington YMCA of the 1970s was more concerned with their legacy and reputation than they were concerned with lifting a finger to help their victims. While hiding behind a facade of purity, caring, and wholesomeness, the Huntington YMCA did more to help William Nolan escape to the Metairie YMCA than they did for any of us. They helped him start a new life where he continued to prey upon little boys and destroy even more lives. As I said before, I just want to reiterate that Nolan spent 19 years in prison for what he did to a little boy named George in Arizona. For years, Nolan Lampe or o' Connell or o' Connell never spent one day in jail for what they did to me and all the others. Shame on the ymca. And that's part of the reason why I'm here. The other part is to encourage the parents to, you know, constantly evaluate and don't just. I mean, my parents, when Nolan would say, hey, you know, can Brian spend them? Sure, no problem. They didn't think it's weird. They just, you know, different times. My parents were great. They were great parents. Fantastic. They raised five solid, taxpaying citizens. And last part of this is what was done to all of us can't be undone.
- [121:34]
A
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- [121:57]
B
That Bell rang long ago. But we as parents and even young people can learn from this. And that's why I'm here. Just because an organization, be it a school, a church, a sports program, or the ymca, uses buzzwords like honesty, respect, caring, or responsibility, that doesn't mean that there aren't predators hiding in plain sight. Be aware, ask questions, and by all means, hold the criminals accountable. If no one was held responsible by the Huntington ymca, countless boys would have been saved, including the little boy, George. Including George. That's. That's about it, I guess.
- [122:39]
A
You know, and I. I think, you know, I love the way that you wrapped it up because that is so important. And I think that while, yes, times are different now, and I think parents and people are more aware, I think that there are still a lot of people that think that these things only happen in movies or documentaries. A lot of people easily think, oh, this wouldn't happen to me or to my kid or whatever it may be. But I do think it is important to always. I don't want to say think the worst, but be prepared and sure, you know, have that education, that knowledge that anything can happen. And sometimes it is better to trust your gut and question rather than to put your faith and assume that everyone's a good person. Because unfortunately, that isn't the case.
- [123:23]
B
You're right 100%. And most people are good people. Most people are, but there's a lot. Small percentage, but it's all. It comes out to a lot of people that are not right.
- [123:33]
A
And it's better to just question it. And hey, it might ruin some relationships or piss people off, but it's better than ruining a child's life.
- [123:42]
B
Sure. And your kids will respect you for that. Your kids will. Oh, my parents are really looking out for me. They'll understand that. It's trust but verify, right?
- [123:51]
A
Yeah.
- [123:51]
B
Yeah. Trust you. I trust the ymca. However, this guy seems like a weirdo.
- [123:55]
A
Yeah.
- [123:56]
B
What's explained to me, what's his background? Where's he from, what's that, that type of thing, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, you mentioned movies or. Or series and things. This story seems like it would be ripe. Ripe for that. And. And, you know, I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to promote myself or toot my own horn, but the way I would see it done is three separate entities. There's Brian, me, how my life turned out. I mean, I flew Navy airplanes all over the planet doing different missions, really cool missions, emergencies, everything. The fire department, you know, putting out fires a bunch of guys that I knew got killed on 9 11. Real sad, of course. But then there's David, who we had the same experience and his life. Completely different. Completely different. And then there's the three pedophiles. What was their life like? They went from place to place doing their thing, and eventually only one of them ever paid a price.
- [125:09]
A
And not even for.
- [125:10]
B
Not even for this. Yeah. Yeah. So I just think it would be. If someone felt like it, it could be a pretty good. Pretty good story.
- [125:17]
A
Absolutely.
- [125:18]
B
Yeah. Which, you know, I. I just think it would be helpful and maybe enjoyable to.
- [125:26]
A
And I think it just like you said, it really would give insight in all the different parties that were involved.
- [125:32]
B
Yeah. Because episode one is about this, and then episode two is like, wait a second, why are we. Why are we in the dark side of town at night outside under. Under the. The railroad bridge? What's going on here? What does this have to do with. And it has to do with the way another. This other David processed his trauma.
- [125:52]
A
Yeah.
- [125:54]
B
Yeah.
- [125:54]
A
And I'm. You know, it really is amazing how everything fell in line for you guys and how you were able to get the confessions. And it does sound like a movie. Like the fact that you were able to just go knock on the door and. And people.
- [126:09]
B
People have said to me, how come you didn't punch him in the nose? And I'm thinking, the emotion has left long ago. The emotion is gone. It's. It's. Now it's about being smart and justice.
- [126:21]
A
Yeah.
- [126:21]
B
Right. And getting. Just punch them in the nose. That's all I get.
- [126:24]
A
Right.
- [126:24]
B
Nobody finds out about it. Nobody learned. Nobody learns about it, is what I mean.
- [126:28]
A
Absolutely.
- [126:29]
B
So we weren't mean or aggressive at all. David was firm, and I was. I was in awe. I was so impressed. I was thinking, wow, how come I get in here and I get all like, you know, some people can interview people and they do really well, and it's. Wow.
- [126:45]
A
Right? Like you said, everybody has their different.
- [126:46]
B
Right. And I get. I try to interview and. And, or talk to someone and I get all twisted up in my thoughts. My wife is fantastic about with it. She can. She can debate and keep things straight. And what about. And then I was like, my, My debate method is to raise my voice, and it's like, no, everybody's so different. Yeah, you're not getting through. It doesn't make any sense anyway. So that's. That's pretty much it.
- [127:11]
A
Yeah. Well, you did incredible, really. And thank you so much for wanting to share your story on this platform. It means so much to me. And I think that, you know, like I mentioned before, I think you did such a good job of describing really, like, beginning, middle and end of your entire life and then like, the amazing outcome that you were able to have. And obviously, you know, this goes without being said, but nothing will ever make up for what happened. You know, there is no justice for that. It should have never happened. And in general, there needs to be more guidelines at places, you know, where. And I. It's just. I feel like these things just slip through the crack so often. Even today, even with everybody that speaks out and talks about different things that happened to them, it's there. These people still exist, you know, more so now than ever, I think. And it goes under the radar. And I think a lot of times, like you said, too, these organizations, and especially if these people are part of something bigger, the places they want to just. They don't want to face it. They don't want it to come out that they were even involved with people.
- [128:17]
B
Yeah, it's painful. It's painful when it comes out. It's going to cost you one way or another. Yeah.
- [128:21]
A
They don't want to deal with reputation. Right.
- [128:23]
B
Money, whatever it is, let's ignore it.
- [128:25]
A
Which is not okay.
- [128:26]
B
Let's ignore it and just everybody close their eyes and these boys will. Will drift away and. And like it never even happened. Yeah, that's. That's all true.
- [128:40]
A
Yeah.
- [128:40]
B
What you said. Yeah, for sure.
- [128:41]
A
Well, thank you so much. You did incredible.