Daughter of a Killer

Summary

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We're All Insane – Episode Summary

Podcast: We’re All Insane

Host: Devorah Roloff
Guest: Kara
Episode: Daughter of a Killer
Date: February 23, 2026

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Overview

In this raw, unfiltered episode, Kara from Owensboro, Kentucky, shares her powerful story about growing up as the daughter of a man convicted of manslaughter. The conversation is a deep dive into generational trauma, parental incarceration, cycles of addiction, and the difficult, often conflicting emotions that come with loving someone who has hurt you. Kara’s narrative highlights both the pain and resilience of her family—especially the unsung strength of her mother and siblings—and the urgent need for compassion and support for children affected by parental incarceration. She also voices her advocacy for programs like Daddy-Daughter dances in prisons to help maintain meaningful connections between incarcerated parents and their children.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Childhood in the Shadow of Crime and Trauma

• Kara grew up with her father in and out of prison for 32 years, initially incarcerated for manslaughter while she was just three months old (02:10).
• Kara describes her two older brothers as her "real life heroes" who helped her survive their tumultuous family environment (00:33).
• Her father, described as a thrill seeker and a major drug dealer, spiraled into destructive behavior before the crime that would change their lives (02:49).

“Sometimes I can't even put it into words... I just, I'm still in awe. I still sit back, I'm like, oh my gosh. Wow.”
— Kara on her and her brothers' resilience (00:33)

2. The Day That Changed Everything

• Kara recounts the day her father held her mother at gunpoint for hours while Kara, a newborn, lay on the bed nearby (05:40). Her mother managed to escape by distracting him.
• The murder that landed her father in prison was triggered by missing money, drugs, and fear—culminating in a fatal altercation with a man named Joe. The incident is described as an act of self-defense amidst crime and chaos (08:21; 17:51).

“She started kicking the back door with her foot in hopes our neighbors would see it... Could you fucking imagine being in that situation? Survival mode. You don’t think twice about it—and she did that.”
— Kara on her mother’s escape (10:20)

3. The Impact of Incarceration on Kara’s Upbringing

• First memories of her dad are in prison, with the trauma of sterile environments, searches, and the emotional confusion of seeing her father only in that context (21:04).
• Visiting prison as a child left Kara with deep-seated anxiety, confusion, and broken promises—her dad always out of reach physically and emotionally (26:13; 30:39).
• Kara is grateful her mother always told her the truth about her father’s situation (30:55).

“The vibes you get from prison—it almost sucks the life out of you... it leaves you with lifelong anxiety, confusion, and so many questions.”
— Kara (25:36; 21:04)

4. Challenges Upon Her Father’s Release

• Her father's reentry after 13 years in prison was filled with hope but quickly descended into renewed addiction and domestic turmoil (33:50; 38:10).
• Kara describes feeling both excited and fearful when her father first came back into their lives (38:01; 38:10).
• Her dad’s inability to adapt, his return to drug activity (making meth in their home), and the effect on the family, including encouraging one brother’s addiction, are recounted in detail (38:18; 45:24).

“My dad never went back to work... he was okay, and went right back to the street.”
— Kara (45:24)

5. Cycles of Disappointment, Violence, and Estrangement

• Drugs, criminal activity, and violence come to dominate their home once again, culminating in another arrest following a police raid (45:24).
• Kara distances herself for protection and mental health, especially after a violent incident involving her father and brother (51:00).
• Eventually, her father is incarcerated again after kidnapping his next wife, further fracturing their relationship (56:24).

“You have the right to feel that way... just stay away. Just stay away.”
— Kara on emotionally cutting ties (56:42)

6. Grief, Guilt, and the Complexity of Forgiveness

• Kara reflects on the complicated, often guilt-ridden feelings about her father, especially during his terminal decline (79:30).
• She shares how advocating for children like herself—through actions like organizing Daddy-Daughter dances in prisons—has become a way to process her pain and create meaning (97:55; 106:00).
• Devorah offers poignant support, reminding Kara she has no debt to pay her father in guilt or forgiveness (91:24).

“You don’t owe him anything. He didn’t give you anything that you need to owe him.”
— Devorah (92:43)

“I want to be there for those children... so they do have somebody to talk to, so they do have somebody to understand.”
— Kara (107:24)

7. The Lingering Effects of “Daddy Issues”

• The conversation expands on how Kara’s upbringing caused deep-seated insecurity, anxiety, and relationship struggles—“daddy issues” aren’t always what pop culture assumes (101:04).
• The hosts discuss the broader need for social and school-based resources to support children living with family shame or loss (66:24; 68:33; 110:45).

“You’re not going to find love—sometimes—from the people we need it from most.”
— Kara (99:21)

8. Finding Healing Through Advocacy and Self-Love

• Kara is now driven to help others in similar circumstances, believing that change can only come if people with lived experience provide support and foster empathy (106:00; 108:24).
• The episode closes with encouragement for listeners to reach out, share their stories, and support the movement for more compassionate, trauma-informed policies for children with incarcerated parents.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Childhood and Resilience
  “My brothers...have been my real life heroes. I don’t know where I’d be without both of them.” — Kara (00:33)

• On Trauma and Survival
  “Could you fucking imagine...it’s survival mode. You fucking hit the ground running.” — Kara (10:20)

• On “Daddy Issues”
  “Daddy issues isn’t just jumping from man to man...It’s putting up with shit you don’t need to put up with because you don’t know it’s not right.” — Kara (101:04)

• On Reconciliation and Boundaries
  “You don’t owe him anything. He didn’t give you anything that you need to owe him.” — Devorah (92:43)

• On Healing and Legacy
  “You’re a strong, beautiful woman...you’re here to help others. You don’t have to do that.” — Devorah (105:14) “The only way I feel like I’m going to find peace is getting my hands dirty with the situation, getting involved.” — Kara (106:00)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:10] – Kara’s father’s incarceration and family background
• [05:40] – The day of the murder and holding her mother at gunpoint
• [21:04] – Kara’s first memory of visiting her father in prison
• [26:13] – Emotional impact and psychology of childhood prison visits
• [38:10] – Father's release and return to addiction
• [45:24] – The police raid and second stint in prison
• [51:00] – Violent incident between Kara’s father and brother
• [56:24] – Estrangement after kidnapping and new sentencing
• [79:30] – End-of-life confrontation, guilt, and final words
• [97:55] – Healing through advocacy, Daddy Daughter dances, and message to other children
• [106:00] – Vision for supporting children of incarcerated parents

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Call to Action

Kara wishes to connect with listeners who want to make a difference for children with incarcerated parents or who need support themselves. She encourages outreach for those interested in advocacy or community-building, especially to normalize conversations and offer meaningful resources for impacted kids.

Contact: [e-mail]
Form: Share your story here

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Closing Theme

This episode is a candid, heart-wrenching exploration of the endurance of the human spirit, the scars of family trauma, and the hope that comes from using one’s pain as a beacon for others. As Kara says, “Sometimes we don’t find love from the people we need it from most.” But healing—and change—are possible, and no child should have to face that journey alone.

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Transcript

[Dvora]

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[Kara]

Well, hello, my name is Kara and I am from a small town called Owensboro, Kentucky. And I am here to kind of just explain my story and my childhood and just to bring awareness to children with incarcerated parents. And any child that has to grow up, you know, maybe not in a great home setting, so to speak, or childhood trauma, you know, and whatever face that might look like for them, I'm going to tell the story. I guess I'm going to go into it with all the, like, brutal things that may have happened at first because that's going to kind of set the tone of how the whole storyline plays out. How it affected my mom, how it affected my dad, and how it affected my two brothers. So I am the baby girl of two older brothers who I absolutely adore. I think the world of my brothers, they have been my true real life heroes. Honestly, I don't know where I would be without both of them. And to know what we have had to go through and for them to know what they have seen a little bit more firsthand maybe than I have and to see how they are today is immaculate, is beautiful. It is the most. I can't, I don't. Sometimes I can't even put it into words like how much because I just, I'm still in awe. I still sit back, I'm like, oh my gosh. Wow.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Yes. So my dad was in prison my whole life for 32 years. I'll be 33 next month. He was in and out of prison and he actually recently died. It was a year ago, around about a year ago. And I unfortunately did not get to make amends, meet with him either, so. But that's okay. It's all good. But like I said, I'm going to start back to the beginning and kind of let's let. I'm going to set the tone and then we'll go into.

[Dvora]

And you're probably about to answer this anyway, if you're about to start at the beginning, but. So when you were born, he was already in prison?

[Kara]

Yes. Okay, so when he had went to prison, when I was three months old, okay, I was three months old. My brother was five and my other brother was 10 years old. And my mom, and it was my mom growing up, my mom never lied to us. My dad went to prison for manslaughter, self defense. So that's where it all started. I'm going to go into the kind of person my dad was. My dad loved to live life on the edge. He loved the fast life with anything that thrilled him, anything that may have brought him adrenaline, anything from what I've been told, he went after. My dad was. My dad never really had, like a normal job, so to speak. My dad was heavily into maybe some things that aren't considered normal by any means. In lack of better terms. My dad was a very big drug dealer. Very big drug dealer. So my mom. So all the stories that I have been told my whole life, my mom told me that just. Just that my dad was just on drugs. And probably about two years before I went born, was born, he just kind of went crazy, that he was going wild, he wasn't coming home, he wasn't finding nothing good that was offered to him. He was running around and cheating on my mom a lot. My mom, you know, was working, taking care of two boys and was pregnant. So the. I'm gonna start off with, like, the night that my dad had committed, I guess the murder, lack of better terms. So. And I'm gonna start off with the. The very day, because I do know that, like by heart. So they wake up, my family does, and it's a normal day. My brothers go to school and my mom comes back home and gets ready, is getting ready for work. My dad is not home at the time. My dad isn't home at the time, so. And he pops up. So my brother Ryan had told me he remembers this specifically, that he remembers my dad arriving home that day because he had went to school, which was just down the street, just right down the street from where we lived. And he heard like, my dad's car and like, heard the tires. And he said, I just remember looking outside the window at Philpott Elementary School, and he knew something was bad. And he told me, he said, kara, I kept calling home that day. I kept calling home. I knew and nobody was answering. So to write, just to jump right back into it, my dad gets home and it's mid Morning. And mom said he's just going off. Like he's going crazy. Which I'm sure is from coming off of drugs, from detoxing, this, that and the third. Yeah. So my dad gets into it with my mom, and my mom is, like, fighting back, just trying to get away from him so she can finish getting ready for work. And then he pulls a gun out on her. And mind you, I was on the bed. I was three months old. So he held my mom at gunpoint the morning that this happened. So my mom said she remembers being in the kitchen, rolling her hair, and the next thing she knows, she's down on the ground and he has the gun pointed into her stomach. She said that she was under the gun. I can't remember how long, but it was. It was a couple of hours. It was a couple of hours that

[Dvora]

he was just holding her down there.

[Kara]

He was just holding her down there. He was like. Had her. He was straddled on top of her. And just. I can't remember what. What was the discussion behind that. But she remembers telling me she. Because I had talked to her, I'm like, mom, like, what had happened that day? Like, what were, you know, this. That.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Figuring out what was going on. And she said, kara, I just kept praying. She said, I just kept praying. And I kept telling him, hey, Dwight, I love you. Why are you doing this? I love you. We have kids. Like, don't do this. What are you doing? We're going to get out of it. Everything's going to be okay. I'm going to back up a little bit and start off with saying that my dad never got a fair chance, in my opinion, at life. Because I remember asking my mom, why are all of his brothers and sisters so successful? But he couldn't be. And she said, kara, he was hit by a car when he was three years old. And it caused him to have lifelong epilepsy. And ever since then, he was not treated well at all. And then there was one time, I know that my mom said my dad. My. I'm sorry. My grandpa had showed up at home and my dad was, like, tied to the tree because he was being bad. His, like, mom kept him, you know, tied to the tree. Cause she couldn't handle him. So. And it's just. I think that's kind of where his background wasn't great. Right?

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

And then he gets, you know, like I said earlier, he gets involved in some shit that you get too far into that has power. That has so much power. You can't get out of it. Knowing how much you want to get out of it.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

You are too far into the game, so to speak. There's no coming back. So back to the day this happened, mind you, the night prior, my brother remembers my dad coming home and he had two thirds of a million dollars laid out on the kitchen table on counters. And I think what had happened was that's when my dad realized there was some money missing. A significant amount of money. Because that is what I've been told my whole life, is that it was the murder happen because of money. There was missing money. And then once I got older, figured out drugs were involved as well. And my brother told me, he said, kara, I remember looking at the table and seeing that money. And he said, he picked some money up and he threw it at my dad. And he said, get out of our house. This is double. We don't need your double money. Like, what are you doing at 10 years old?

[Dvora]

Right?

[Kara]

Okay. Like, so back to the day he's holding my mom at gunpoint. Sorry. I knew I was gonna jump.

[Dvora]

No, I'm following along perfect. I'll tell you if I'm ever not. Or if it's getting confusing. And I know it's hard to not jump back and forth. Cause it's like you're trying to make sure you get, like, backstory, but also, you know, fill us in with, like, what's happening. It makes sense, you're good.

[Kara]

And that's what. Yep, that's what it is.

[Dvora]

And honestly, it doesn't matter if that's how it plays out in your head. Yeah, how it's in your head.

[Kara]

Exactly. I'm like, at this point, this is a basket case of a story. But guess what? It's a beautiful story as well. Right. Thank you. So, and then, yeah, the night that that happened, the money. And I'm thinking that's when I guess probably the decision was made, or my dad was advised by a certain group of people that, hey, you need to. It's time that you. You do this or you're not going to have a life. You can take your pick. So he had my mom pinned down to the ground with the pistol. And my mom for like an hour and a half, she said that she managed to wiggle herself to the back door of our house. And she said that she started kicking the back door with her foot in hopes that our neighbors that are still her neighbors to this day, would see it. So the phone starts ringing, and I assume that's Ryan calling because he had been Calling from school the whole morning. And my mom looked at my dad and said, hey, Dwight, you really need to answer the phone. That's my mom looking for Cara. Because my mom was going to take me down there on her way to work looking for Cara, you need to answer it. So my dad answers the phone and my mom said that she's just keeping her eyes on him the whole time. She is just watching him, she said, because she knew as soon as he got his eyes off of her, she was going to run. Sure enough, he gets on the phone and it was her brother, I think maybe it was definitely somebody that was close to her. And he sure enough, he had turned his head and he was able to. He had turned his head and he was able to. My mom was able to run. So my mom's run. My mom runs out of the back door and she said that he goes to the back door and he is following her with the gun. And her plan was she was just going to bust through our neighbor's house and she said that she was hiding between trees and so she could miss a bullet. Could you fucking imagine? Could you fucking imagine being in that situation and happened to fear for you, your life? You have a newborn baby on the bed, your mom's looking for you, your job's looking for you, and it's survival mode. You fucking hit the ground running. You don't think twice about it. And she did that. And I'm like, even still to this day, I look at her and I'm like, you are the strongest woman I have ever met in my entire life. So my mom busts through our neighbor's door and tells my neighbor what happens. My neighbor walks over there. I think that's when he grabbed me. He went up to my dad and said, hey, get out of here. Whatever you got, just go. Just leave. My dad leaves. So that day, and my mom did not call the cops. I wonder often why she didn't call the cops.

[Dvora]

I was gonna ask you, how were they, did they have a good relationship? Other than obviously that, but like, prior to that, how was their relationship together?

[Kara]

Yeah, no, my mom said she loved him. My mom said that she loved him. And they had so much fun together. They A little insight about them. They loved fashion, they loved different, like outfits. They loved going to dinner parties. They. They were just like your ultimate, your ultimate couple and family.

[Dvora]

So that situation, do you think it was just kind of like, did she say it was a one off type of situation or did things like that happen sometimes?

[Kara]

It definitely was Definitely a one off situation that prior to that she knew he was going downhill for a couple of years and. But she didn't know it was going to be this bad.

[Dvora]

Right. Because I was going to say maybe she didn't call the cops because it was still so surprising and shocking to her in a sense.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

You know, like even if she had an idea in her mind like, oh, things are going downhill. I mean if you love somebody and you do have so many things that you enjoy doing with them, I think it's kind of like you don't. You know what I mean?

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

Like you have that internal battle of do I call to protect myself, my kids, or do I say maybe he's just really going through it, you know, Right to the extreme. Right. But it's like it's so you can't put yourself in the position unless you're like in it. I feel like with things like that, it's so easy for people, I think in general, like when they hear stories to be like, why don't you do this or that? And it's like, especially when you're in shock too.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

You know what I mean?

[Kara]

Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

[Dvora]

It's hard.

[Kara]

It's very hard. And to want to do the. The reason I guess we do and don't things is because for the bigger picture.

[Dvora]

Yeah. Right. To get an understand, like you want to understand your brain wants to be able to wrap, like wrap it around things.

[Kara]

Absolutely, absolutely. So she did not call the cops after school was out, the boys were out and she had grabbed me and the boys and we went down and stayed with my memo. I'm going to say this much. I was raised by my memo and I love her so much. She did such a good job. And it wasn't because my mom was a bad mom. It wasn't because my mom had, you know, issues or any kind of like anything that she was facing. It's because my mom had to work six days a week, busy. My mom had to provide for three kids and she did as she did that. She did that to the core. So I have a lot of respect for my mom. Sometimes I think that she doesn't understand that, but the way that I look at her and I'm like, bow down to her because the shit that you've been through, I mean, I don't know, I don't really see how anybody could, you know what I mean? So the day that that happened, we're down at my grandma's and it's probably 2 o' clock in the morning, my mom gets a phone call from downtown, and they're like, hey, Gail, can you come down here? We want to ask you some questions. And she said, is this is a fake name, Joe dead? And all they said was, you have to come down to the station. And she said she knew instantly what had happened. So she gets down to the station and she's being interviewed, and it's a female detective. And the first thing, the female detectives, she tells me this more than once. So this moment for her was definitely something powerful for. For whatever reason that may be. But the detective had sat down and said, I'm just going to let you know that you're always going to remember the truth. You're never going to remember a lie. And my mom said, I have no reason at all to lie to you. So that's when they told her that my dad had killed Joe. Okay, so that's where. That's where everything goes down south. So from what I know, and mind you, I'm three months old, so I don't know. I wasn't there, didn't witness the first brutal part of this. So I'm under the impression that my dad, after everything I went down with my mom that morning, he had figured out who had taken the money. Money being Joe. Joe taking the money. And so my dad bust into his house. He sneaks into his house that night. And I'm not really sure what happened, but they start. They get into a fight. Huge altercation. My dad. I thought he was stabbed in this same night. I thought my dad was stabbed a bunch of times, but it was actually a couple weeks prior to that, he was stabbed for whatever reason a bunch of times. And I'm thinking that it was still. Had to do with the money and Joe and the drugs, and then just.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

The people that.

[Dvora]

The involvement. Yeah.

[Kara]

Yes. That he was in. So whatever happens, I don't know my dad. I don't really know what happened with the. In that situation, but. So the story that I was told in the oppression that I was under is that. Well, the reason why my dad got away with manslaughter and not murder was because the crime scene was so bad, somebody wasn't going to make it out alive. This prob. This came out, I'm sure, in court during the trial, but Joe actually had a huge cork board and pieces of paper on how he was going to kill my dad. I forgot to mention this. I forgot to mention this. I knew I was going to do this Also leading up to this, either a month A couple weeks prior to this, Joe was found underneath our house. So Joe had. One night, we're all at home. Joe had came underneath our house, underneath our crawl space and was like listening and was like hiding underneath there for a couple of hours. And the next day my mom said Joe had came back and shows up and my dad's not there. And my mom lets him in. And my mom's like, why are you here? Hey, you know, Dwight's not here. Why are you here? And he, he had said something about my dad had a pair of ostrich boots that my dad, I mean, I even still remember these ostrich boots after he got out of prison. But he actually went to my dad's closet and got these boots. And my mom was like, what are you doing? Like, you need to go. You need to leave. You need to go. My kids are here. Dwight's gonna find out you're here. This is not gonna be good. And he tried to kiss my mom. And my mom was like, please leave. Well, that's when assuming my dad had found all that out. I'm not quite sure what exactly like the moment up to it, but it's just like the general idea of everything.

[Dvora]

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[Kara]

purchased that happened and the night that it happened, the crime scene was so bad Somebody wasn't going to make it out alive. They actually had found my dad shot halfway in a lake, but he was alive. So I'm not really sure what happened. I'm not sure about the fighting or what even led up to that. How my dad did it, don't have a clue. But he was found shot and Joe was dead. So then my dad, that is when my dad got sentenced to, I think it was 12 years, 13 years for manslaughter, self defense. And then that's where, that's where my life starts. That's where the crazy mess starts. That's where all the daddy issues start. That's where all the beautiful mess starts. So the only. This is south side. The only. I mean, that's a bad word. The first time I've ever seen my dad in prison was in prison. The first time I ever had to meet my dad was in prison. My dad goes to prison. My mom's left with a 3 month old, a 5 year old and a 10 year old little boy. And she's like, what do I do? So my mom just works again. My mom's working six to seven days a week nonstop. I know that she worked that much because she had to provide. But I also sometimes wonder, did my mom work so much to numb everything? You know what I mean? Did she work so much to get away from everything? I'm not sure if she'll ever even answer that question either, you know what I mean? Because I don't know if she even still knows that answer. But the first memory I have of going to the prison was pretty, pretty crazy. Very scary, Very scary. I just remember they had to peel me off of my brother and my mom had to peel me off of it the first time that I went and I think a couple other times meeting my dad in prison for the first time did a bunch of wonders to me. I will say it leaves you with lifelong anxiety, it leaves you with lifelong being confused. It leaves you with lots of, lots of questions. And it also set you up for tons and tons of broken promises. Years worth of broken promises. So I remember going into the prisons, to the prison. So my dad was in federal prison the first time. I'm not going to say the name of that or anything, so I'll just keep that out. But in Kentucky he was, he was still in the state of Kentucky, so. And I remember when going into the prison and getting searched, I will never forget what every CEO looked like. I will never forget what the guards look like. And one thing that I don't remember being there. Is my mom being in the room with me. I do not remember being searched with my mom in there or brothers. Nothing. So I don't know, maybe because this was back in the early 90s. Was this what they did? Was it protocol?

[Dvora]

And what does the search consist of?

[Kara]

I just remember just a simple, like, pat down your shoes. You have to take your shoes off. I remember one time they didn't let me in because I didn't have a slip underneath, like a longer skirt or a dress that I was wearing. You had to always wear like baggy clothes. Like baggy clothes. They couldn't have any writing on them. I just remembered, it was just we always wore just like basic clothes there. And then the search consisted of, like I said, just a quick pat down and then taking our shoes off and stuff. So during the visits. I'll never forget those either. It. Okay, so this is also what I'm trying to figure out. How do you as a little girl go to this environment that is so fucking intimidating and scary? It's prison. It's clear. I'm sorry. It's gray blocks, it's white walls. It's the most sterile thing in this world. The, the vibes you get from prison, you just, it's such like, it almost take. It almost sucks the life out of you.

[Dvora]

It's darkness, it's negativity. And your gut can feel the energy. It's bad energy.

[Kara]

It is very, very bad energy.

[Dvora]

And like, I think too, you know, when you think of a child and the innocence of a child and how, you know when in your childhood you have all these, like, you don't think about anything serious, you know? So I think being put into such a serious environment that is so scary and so intimidating and, you know, so dark, I think makes sense how it could make a child feel like, you know, all their innocence is just being sucked out of them.

[Kara]

Right? You're exactly right. Because so you are in this environment as a child and you are also having to meet the man that is your father in this environment, not only meeting the man that your father, but this man killed somebody, right? So you're, you're looking at this person every visit that you go to and you're, you're thinking, how, how are you, how are you being nice to me? You think all these things. You even think some fucked up shit. You even think, what were you thinking when you did that? What did that mean to you? Like, why did you do it? Do you regret it? Are you sorry? But when you're a child, you don't know how to ask those things. And quite frankly, I don't think you even realize you want to know those things until you are older. Until you can realize, like, hey, this is not what. This is not how this is supposed to go. This is not how. This is. This is not what a normal family is like being set up. I remember going into the prison to this specific one and only looking at a mural on the wall where families would, like, sit down and take their picture together because it was the only happy thing in there. And I remember just like there was like, rainbows and ladybugs and sunshines on it, like your typical rainbows and unicorns. I just remember always looking at that. My dad wanted to be a good dad while he was in prison. And mind you, he did not get out till I was 13. My dad wanted to be a good dad. And I know that firsthand because every phone call that I've received, every card that I have ever gotten, every letter that I have gotten, have always, always said, hello, beautiful. That's what a dad is supposed to do to a daughter. Because to me, you know, as a dad, you're the one that sets the tone on how a woman is supposed to be treated. You're the one that sets the tone what a man is supposed to provide for a woman. You're the one that's supposed to set the tone of protection. You're the one that sets the tone for how fucked up this world is. You know, you. You're the one that is supposed to do all those things, right? And you question it every time you. You want to have such good, innocent conversations with your, you know, parent that might be behind bar. More than anything, you just want to get to know them. You want to know everything there is to know about them. But you. It's so hard to. Because it's almost like you don't hold a grudge necessarily, but you hold. You yearn. You yearn for the pure, genuine love that, like, a dad is supposed to give you, you know, and even when you're not at those visits, when you're not in the prison, the law, the letters, the cards, the phone calls, he's promising he's gonna do so much better, you know, he's promising when he gets out, our life is gonna be everything we've ever dreamed of, you know, and when you get that chance and you don't do it and you break those promises, it causes very bitter feeling. And it's just like, why. Why did you go against what you said. Why did you go against your promise just to simply being a dad, that you're supposed to be like, why did you go against that? But as you get older, you. You learn, too. You have to be all those things on your own, too, you know? So I remember visiting him in prison, and I hated it. I absolutely hated it. I don't even know if I would recommend any mother maybe taking young children into prison, because the setting alone, what it does, in fact, do to you later on in life, you're never gonna forget it. And you want to forget it so bad, you know?

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

But I understand why my mom did it. I understand why my mom took us because she wanted so bad to continue to do the right thing. She wanted so badly.

[Dvora]

And it seems like she was very open with you guys.

[Kara]

Yes, very, very open. And I'm very thankful that she was, because, you know, through life, you meet people with the same. Or you. You hear stories, you know, people about, well, their dad went to prison, their mom went to prison, and. Or you hear, well, I'm not gonna tell them, their daddy's just at work, Mom's just at work. I don't think you need to do that. I don't think that's a good idea at all. Because you're eventually. That. That white lie that you tell children is eventually gonna be broken. Like, you're eventually gonna break their heart because they're eventually gonna ask, why couldn't you tell me the truth? Because I've had to ask my mom a lot of those things, too. So I'm gonna go back to being in prison and all that good stuff. He gets out, I go visit him. I can honestly remember it a handful of times. I think once I, you know, started to get a little bit older, started to develop this. That the third, you know, hit puberty. I think that's when my nanma was like, okay, stop. Don't take her back. So for the first 13 years, it was a lot of hope and promises made during that 13 years. My childhood was so amazing. I had such a great childhood with my mamaw. My Mamamaw had, like 10 of us cousins down there every single day, every day in the summer. And even my mom's side of the family, they are the ones that truly supported us, that loved us and not necessarily sheltered us, but they were just. Just exactly that. Like, such a fucking support system that we needed, you know what I mean? And they. That was like, our normal life when we were down in them all. So another problem that I think also where everything fucked up was. So my dad woke up in prison after serving 13 years and went to bed in our home the very same night. And you don't realize then what it could do. You're just excited. Dad's home. You're just excited. I finally have a dad here, like finally get to, you know, experience what it's like having a family and you're so excited. Right. I actually had went with one of my uncle, my uncle that did go pick him up, actually went with him to go pick my dad up. And I remember the night before we went and got him, did not sleep. I was just, just thinking like, oh my God, what? My life is going to change. And I don't know how, you know, it's really, really hard to express the feelings that you have at that age and everything you've kind of just been through.

[Dvora]

You know, it's a huge adjustment.

[Kara]

It's a very big adjustment. Yes. So for the first couple weeks it was just odd. It was very, very odd. He almost did not know how to commun well, in fact, he didn't know how to communicate with us. I just remembered he smiled a lot. I remember he was very calm. He was just very, very calm and just kind of stayed to himself. We had went to Walmart. This for example of how, just as an example of how people do in fact get cell shock and they can't come out of it. We had went to Walmart one time and he like did not shop with us. He had kept all his things separate from us and didn't really just like even put his things in the same cart with us. And it's just little things like that. Like I remember just looking and like

[Dvora]

so interesting because like it makes that mindset, makes so much sense in that type of environment. But then, you know, it's like it does go to show that you can't really just like snap out of it because that was his life. I mean, he was. I think when you're in prison you still have that kind of like, you're in survival mode.

[Kara]

Yes, you are. You. I, I don't know how he was able to keep like such a straight face or like such a Persona, like a strong. This isn't. Because I would always ask him and he would call, like, are you sad? Like, are you scared? Is there bad guys there? Like what? You tell me what prison's like. And my dad never really elaborated on it. He never really got much into detail with it. And I think that was just because he was sheltering me In a sense, he was. He was sheltering me in a way that I didn't quite understand. So growing. Going back to my dad, getting out of prison. And mind you, I'm going to back up from when I was a little girl. I hated daddy daughter dances. I don't know why I did, but I just remember they would decorate, like the school gyms, and it was always so cute. It was always like, they just made it so exciting. And I remember, like, all of my friends sitting around and, like, talking about the dresses they were going to wear and the shoes they were going to wear and just. And I never got to go to a daddy daughter dance. I never got to experience that. And as a little girl, that. That's a big, big thing, you know, you want to be able to do that with your dad. And you were so jealous of the girls that did. I remember being almost embarrassed when absolutely

[Dvora]

I was gonna say, you took the words out of my mouth.

[Kara]

I remember being embarrassed for the first. When he was in prison the first time. Just always feeling embarrassed. It was to the point to where I wouldn't even tell people his real name. I would use, like, his name is Charles Dwight. And I would use Charles. He would go by Dwight. I would use Charles in hopes that nobody would pick up, you know, like, who my dad was.

[Dvora]

My thing too, you know, as a child, if there's ever something that you can't do, I think in a circumstance or situation like that, naturally it's like you don't. I feel like you don't really know many emotions and you don't understand really a lot of what's going on. So the first thing I think you jump to is embarrassment because technically, in that situation, you're not fitting in. You know what I mean? Like, you're not able to participate. And it hurts. I think it hurts. I think it's. It feels. It's not embarrassing, but it feels embarrassing.

[Kara]

It. Yeah.

[Dvora]

You know, and it's. I think for a child, that's so difficult.

[Kara]

It is. And another. It's so to not have anybody to be able to relate to.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

When you have somebody in prison and as a child, I had nobody that I could talk to that would understand. So the general feeling. The general emotion that I had from all this is I was just afraid. I was afraid of my dad. I was afraid of just. Just everything as a whole. You know, I was just afraid of

[Dvora]

it when he got out the first time. Did you have any type of fear of him when he moved back in with you? Guys, or were you just mainly excited?

[Kara]

I had fear. The fear didn't start until he started going down a rough path again.

[Dvora]

Okay.

[Kara]

I was. I was downright genuinely so happy. My brothers were so happy. It was such a happy moment.

[Dvora]

What about your mom?

[Kara]

My mom was very excited. She was very happy as well. She had big hopes for my dad. She genuinely did think that my dad took that time and changed, that my dad took that time and learned his lesson, that he did change for the better because you know her kids. Why wouldn't you want to. Why wouldn't you want to do better because of your children that are at home? Why wouldn't you? You had a chance to not only get sober, a chance to rehabilitate yourself and a chance. You get a second chance. Because there's not. There's a lot of people that don't get that. Yeah, there's a lot of people that don't get a second chance. He did. So he's out and for about six. He's okay for about six months. And then that's when the fighting started. Happen. I remember a lot. A lot of argument, arguing and a lot of just bickering in my house. Growing up in that time, that's when it started. My brothers at the time, like I said, I was 13. My brothers were 24 and 18. Yeah. Because two of us were still in school. So, like, my oldest brother, like, for example, he was a huge car driver, like a race car driver. Just local tracks and stuff. And I remember, like, my dad would put him in some shitty situations, like, oh, hey, yeah, we're gonna go to this race. Go ahead, get everything ready. Do this, that and the other. And it just not happened. Right. It just didn't happen. My dad promised us a dog one time. I remember he promised us that He. I think this money started. Let me back up. Okay. So about six months later, that's when he started getting on the drugs again. He had brought around. I will never forget his. This specific friend that he brought around. And we had talked about, like, the energy that prison can bring and then just how your intuition feels, like your gut feeling. I remember the first time he came around. This man was up to no good. You could look at him in his eyes and just know, whoa, you're not a good person. Like, you have a black cloud following you. Nonetheless. And so my dad was. That's when he started staying away from the house a lot more often. We weren't seeing him as often. We. And if he was home, he was home for, like, 10 or 15 minutes, like 20 minutes just. And we were like, what are you doing? Like, what in the hell is going on? Well, I remember one day I came home from school, I was in middle school, got off the bus, and I walk into my house, and my house is full of some pretty cringy dudes. And I'm like, where's my dad? Because he's supposed to be home, My dad's nowhere to be found. And I'm like, what the fuck? Where? Who are you? And I just kept saying, where's my dad? And I remember going over to my neighbors and just telling them, like, hey, I don't know what's going on, but my dad has all these people in the house. He's not there. My mom's at work. And that was. You know, situations like that, if the fights at home ever got bad, it was normal for me to run over to my neighbors. My mama raised me, like on the weekends and stuff. I did stay with my mom and in the childhood home during school, like the school week so I could go to school. So then that happened. I walked in, there was all these dudes. So it was probably about two weeks after that I had walked in and my dad is stirring a pot on the stove, and it had no smell. And I'm like, what is he doing? And he just kept stirring the shit for hours. And I didn't know for sure what it was then, but I knew what it was again. My gut was telling me he's making drugs, like that's what he's doing. And come to find out that's exactly what he was doing in our home when my mom was at work. So it was a bunch of just little shit like that, you know, growing up, it was horrible. Some things that caused. It was just a lot of fighting, a lot of arguing, a lot of hate that became. That came into the home from the time he got on, started using again. Me and my. Actually my brother and I, when he came back home, because my dad didn't hold up the end of the deal, you know, because my dad didn't go to work, because he didn't help my mom out with the bills or anything like that, that caused one of my brothers to literally have to use a bathroom as a bedroom. Like, he did not. We didn't have a huge house growing up. And him and my other brother, they shared a room until I was old enough to where I, you know, they couldn't anymore or relationship happened this like that. And my brother, he used the bathroom a lot as a bedroom and just for like privacy and stuff. And you know, my dad, like still didn't even take the initiative to care, you know, he still didn't take the initiative. Nothing went off on him and thought, wow, you know, this, this is not right.

[Dvora]

Or like, I want better for them.

[Kara]

I want better for them. That never, honest to God, it never registered in his mind. I can't remember if this was before or after the bust.

[Dvora]

Hi guys, it's me, Devorah. I am so excited to finally share this with you all. I've officially launched a new subscription channel called We're All Insane plus where inside you will get access to never before heard bonus episodes, all podcast episodes, completely commercial free. And my brand new show, We're All Healing where I sit down with experts, therapists, authors and healers to talk about how we actually process pain, reconnect with our true selves and rebuild after trauma. You can subscribe to We're All Insane plus in app on Apple Podcast or Spotify or you can head over to we're all insane.com to learn more. Hi guys, it's me, Dvora. The We're All Insane merch store is officially open. I've been working so hard on this line and really made it with you in mind and I'm so excited. We have totes tumblers, sweatshirts and my personal favorite, the crew necks with the matching sweatpants. And let me just tell you, they are so comfortable and so soft. It is my favorite thing to wear and the colors are so cute. This is my very first launch and we only printed a limited amount, so once it is gone, it's gone. So make sure you head to we're all insane.com and grab yours today.

[Kara]

So one of my brothers was a. He never like did drugs or anything. He never even really drank alcohol. So like anytime he needed money or anything, like when my dad was out, he would give my brother money, like without it. I did have a brother who struggled a lot with addiction growing up. He, I remember he was very, very young. Even when he just started smoking marijuana for the first time. He was maybe 12 or 13, like maybe 12, if not younger. And at this time, this was when my brother was kind of starting to spiral out of control a little bit. That's when even more trauma happened at home. So my dad had gave my brother drug. My brother had asked my dad for money. Hey. And had my brother had asked my dad for money. This brother did. And my dad literally gave him dope, a bag of drugs and said okay, go sell it and you can keep everything. Yeah. So it was probably in that, that right there that caused my brother to also, like, get into addiction. Yeah. You know, he was 14, 15, maybe even 16 at the time. And your dad's telling you, hey, you want some money? Go sell some drugs. That's how you get your money. And again, in such a short amount of time, when we're thinking that everything is going to be okay, it's whiplash. I mean, we're kind, we're trying to stay above, you know. So I remember one day I was in middle school and I had this same, like, intuition. I feel like that something wasn't right going on at home. And nights at home and days at home were getting worse and worse with the fighting and the yelling and him just being completely strung out, just being completely out of it. Like, my dad never went back to work. When he got out of prison, he never did the right thing. He, in hindsight, got out, he was okay, and went right back to the street. So I remember being in middle school and that morning it was. And this was when my mom was still married to my dad. My mom was at work and my oldest brother was at home. He was 23 at the time. And this was when, like, it was confirmed that, hey, dad's a drug addict or, hey, dad's going down, he's doing some bad shit again. So it was my oldest brother at home and my dad, well, my dad had, at the time when this happened, some. Something out in the field that was covered. And that very same day, the National Guard was flying around and seeing what my dad had covered. It was. And I don't know if I can say this, so this can be up to you. It was anhydrous tanks without farm tags on them, covered with the screen. Okay, obviously you're making meth. So they catch my. They catch it in the field and they bust in my, my home. They bust in the house. My brother, and this brother is the one who doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he doesn't do drugs. He is just a clean cut. Dude was 23 years old and got woke up in his bed by two SWAT team officers on each side getting thrown into the back of a police car, not knowing what the fuck is going on. And he said our house was swarmed. He said the yard was swarmed with every law enforcement officer that you could possibly imagine. So bless you. Right? So they pop in my house, they get my dad, and my dad in the moment is telling them, like, hey, I'm not telling. I'm not telling you guys, like, where anything is at all. Like, you're. You obviously know why you're here. Take the tanks. Like, I'm not telling anything else, so. Oh, sorry about that. There we go. Hey. My dad's like, okay, so my dad's in one car, in one cop car, and my brother is in the other. The other. They keep them separate. And my brother said the whole time he was hot. He was just like, what in the hell is going on? So they come into the house and they demolish everything. But at that point, legally they can. They have the documentation to do so. They showed no mercy. They took everything out of the cabinets. They emptied the drawers out in our dressers. They kept them out. Our house was demolished. So they're going on, and I think the raid last two to three hours, if. If that. So they demolish the house. And at that point they get to the point to where they are getting ready to cut open our furniture. And that's when my dad stopped them and said, like, hey, no more. Like, I'll tell you where everything is. No more. I think they got like 20 grand in cash from my dad and they found like 30 pounds of pot. But really they were after my dad because of the anhydrous that they had found in the field. So me. And this is how badass my mom is. So my neighbor calls the same neighbors I've been talking about, blessed them, bless both of them, and they are amazing people and definitely have saved us from a lot of shit. They were calling my mom and my mom was at work. My mom left work at like one o' clock in the afternoon. We were getting off the bus probably about 4. She goes into the. She goes to work after. At this point, my dad's arrested and my dad, my brother gets cleared. Everything's normal. They leave the house a mess. So my neighbor calls my mom and is like, hey, you know, blah, blah, blah, this, that and the other. And my mom said, let me know when they leave. So my mom went home and the neighbor went over there. I think she did. I think the neighbor went over there and helped her clean our house. I walk in and our house is fucking spotless. We had no idea what happened. We had absolutely no idea what happened until probably about a couple days afterwards. My mom left work and went home and cleaned it out and cleaned the house out just to keep us that much more protected. Protected, so to speak. And that's when everything kind of kicked off too, with my other Brother's addiction. So my dad had. Went to county jail for maybe a year or two. I can't remember, really, because that's when I was like, okay, I'm never gonna get the father. This isn't gonna be the father and daughter relationship that I've yearned for for so long. Yes, the hope was gone. And so, of course, I'm a teenager, and I'm just trying to stay afloat, right? I'm trying to stay afloat. I'm trying to be a normal person. I'm trying to just move on from it. I'm trying to just move past from it. I'm trying to let it go and accept it for what it is, right? So this is when my mom divorces him, and this when my mom divorces him and he. I think he's homeless for maybe about a year or so. I can't remember where he was exactly. He ends up getting remarried to a woman that. I have no idea who this woman is. I didn't know her name, nothing. And he was, in fact, on drugs again, just like, super. Just super fucked up. Every time we saw him, he would show up randomly. He had showed up randomly one time at our house. I'll never forget. I was, I don't know, maybe about 20, 17, 16. 17. And it was a summer. It was a summer day. It was a beautiful, beautiful day. My brother was going through some things and just facing some issues and was just having a rough day that day. And I guess maybe he had called my dad. I don't really know what got my dad back out to our house. I don't know why he showed up. My dad showed up and he was. He. There was these two people with him, and I had. Obviously they were strangers. They not great people. And my brother goes outside and my mom runs out after my brother. And I don't know what was going on. I just remember I go outside and my dad is beating the living fuck out of my brother, like, beating him to pieces. And I did not know what to do. So I just ran to my neighbor, to my other neighbor's house. And about. Probably about two or three minutes after, I was outside just watching this. And my mom knew not to get too close to the situation, but she was, like, throwing rocks at my dad to get him to stop. And I told my friend, I was like, we have to go back. I have. Like, I gotta go see my brother, make sure he's okay. So I ran back, like, through the yard, just ran back over there. And when I ran over There my other brothers popped up out of nowhere. Nobody called him, nobody told him what was going on. Nothing. He comes out, he gets my dad off of my other brother, beats the hell out of him, throws him in the car and said, leave, Leave us alone. Get away from us. So for, again, for about a year, our dad was like terrorizing us. He was making our life a living hell every chance he could get. And you're a grown ass man, you're a dad and beating the shit out of your son like you're too far gone. Way too far gone. So my brother Ryan. That's okay, whatever. Yeah, Ryan. My brother was able to get my dad off of him and he. I did not see my dad for a while. I didn't see him for a while. So it was. I was pregnant. Okay. I didn't see my dad for a while. He had called me once or twice and then I remembered, I answered and I was like, hey, I'm out. You've done nothing but wreck my childhood life. You have done nothing but make broken promises that you didn't keep. You didn't do anything that you were supposed to do. It's best that you stay out of my life. Because I want to. At that point, I wanted to just kind of remove him and go on. I kind of.

[Dvora]

You wanted to heal from it so bad. Yeah. I think you. You, it seems like as any child would, you held on to the idea of him getting his together and stepping up to the plate and being the dad that you wanted and needed and he didn't.

[Kara]

No.

[Dvora]

And I think that it gets to a point where, like you said, you almost become bitter towards the person because you're like. Like you're just making it worse.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

For yourself. You know, it's like it was better if they just were gone.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

Rather than continuing to just come and disappoint. And disappoint.

[Kara]

Yes. Just stay away. Just stay away. So I had gotten pregnant. I was. Yeah, I was 18 at the time I got pregnant. And that alone as such a young girl, you know, and never really knowing what a father figure is, knowing that alone is so scary. It was the scariest day of my. It was the best day. It ended up being one of the best days of my life. Yes. But it was so scary to take one. So we don't see my dad for a couple years neither. And my brothers at this point had also kind of just like cut him off and kind of just what I wanted to do, just like let it go and leave us alone and Maybe down the line we can make amends meet. And this is just what's best. So I remember my memo at the time had called me, she had called me, and I'm assuming she called my brothers as well. And she said, hey, Kara, I think you need to come down here. You need to read something in the newspaper. And I'm like, well, what is it? You know, like, what could it pop? Why can't you just tell me? She's like, no, come down here. I want to tell you in person rather than over the phone. And I went down there and it had our last name. Sentenced to 25 years to life. And I was like, what did he do? What did he do now? Come to find out he had kidnapped his wife he was married to, and she had taken a bunch of money from him. And he. They were. I guess they were. Had a shared checking account, and she took all the money. And he had. Went and he had no money one day, and it was. It was a significant amount of money that was in this account. And he kidnapped her, handcuffed her to his car. Come to find out, she was, at the time, I was guess, working or involved with the police because they knew everything. Yeah, they caught it right there, Heard everything. And so my dad, at that point, gets sentenced to 25 years to life. And I'm like, what do you do? What in the hell do you do at that point? You know what I mean? It's like, do I ignore it? Cause I almost did. I almost ignored. Okay, don't care. Like, he's nothing to me. He's dead to me. He's nothing to me. And I was like, still hoping, still just wanting my dad there, just wanting so bad to maybe even. Maybe if he hears me talk to him, he'll do this for me. He'll listen to me. No, it didn't do anything. So I'm like, what do I do? Well, after I read the newspaper, I went down to the county jail where he was still at, and I went and saw him. And I hadn't seen him for like, two years after that. And I wasn't showing at the time, so he didn't know that I was pregnant. And I would never forget just looking at him. And you could tell through the glass. And I had never really seen my dad through a glass. It was always in prison. So I had sat down visits with him when I was. Was younger. And he just looked like he could not face me, you know, he looked like he could not look at me in my eyes because of what he did, it's like he knew that I felt a certain type of way about. He knew the disappointment I had when I looked across from that man. And I think in that moment, that's when I felt like he really did want to be a dad. I think that's when it started to, okay, he's starting to be sorry. Maybe he was sorry. Maybe he's always been sorry. Maybe he's never had the chance to really tell me everything that he needed to say. So that's when it all started because I was like, you know, this is fucked up. He's in prison or he's going back to prison, he has nobody to talk to. He's in jail right now, he's nobody. So I went and saw him and I just remember the, the look on his face, the shock on his face. He was, he was very disappointed in seeing me. So he had got his sentencing for the 25 years and he was actually getting ready to get shipped off at this point. I think I had went and saw him maybe a few more times while I was pregnant. I remember the first time when I was my belly but my baby bump was showing and he was just smiling ear to ear like he was so happy for me, he was so happy for me. And I just remember going to see him a few times and I remember he got his sentencing to get sent away again to prison. And I didn't express this to anybody, but I was like, man, I would love if he could just see my son. Just, just see him one time and come to find out I got lucky enough and was able to let him see my son through the glass like a week before he got sent off. Like it was very quick. So he goes to prison again. So everything that had happened in my childhood, every thing that you have to learn when you're young, dealing with all that kind of stuff came back. You know, it came right back while I was trying to be a first time mom. And you're like, you're so torn, right? It's like the world's playing tug of war with you and you don't know what to do. So I remember just telling myself, I'm a mom now, I'm going to be above. I forgive him. Everything that he's done, all the hardships, everything that he's gone through, I forgive him. So I'm really going to kick off a relationship with them. So at the time, that's when at this point we were. Because used to back in, you know, the 90s, you couldn't get on an email or a FaceTime call with anybody. You know, it was straight through the mail, it was a phone call. And now they have all kinds of different apps that you can get on and they're able to do like FaceTime, phone conversations with you, zoom type of thing. Yes, yeah. And you are able to send emails back. So of course I was just like texting so there. And this was very short lived. This, this. I want to say it was a true, genuine relationship with my dad when he was back in prison serving his sentence. It was a very true, genuine relationship. I remember telling him like updates about my son. You know, I remember just like talking to him and trying to get to, to know him and then it's almost like a flip or switch just flipped. You know what I mean? It, it's like he didn't care anymore because I didn't hear from him as much. He quit emailing me back, he quit calling me, he quit just not asking about me. And you know, in that moment you're like shit. You know, I thought we were getting somewhere and you can't do this anymore. Like you, you're going away.

[Dvora]

I think it's just conflicting because you know, you have your younger self and the child you that just wants a parent, whether it's a mom or a dad. You know, there's. That's another thing. People can probably relate to this, that have a situation with their mom. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be only a father figure.

[Kara]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Dvora]

You know, and I think it's conflicting because when you're a child, you are innocent. You want that parent there and you want, I think you, even your first love comes from a parent. And when you feel that neglect and like they aren't showing up for you or they aren't there. I think it's, it devalues a lot within yourself. It's almost like you have to teach yourself to build your own confidence. You have to teach yourself to be there for yourself because the core people aren't there, they aren't showing up. So it's like you have that and then you get older and you start putting all the pieces together and you're like, well this, like you didn't step up to the plate. You're a piece of crap. Stay away.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

But then I think deep down you still have that little ache because the child, you never healed from that.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

And still just wants the best. Like it hope, like the little version of you wants the best and wants to hope that maybe Just maybe, you know, like that he'll be better this time or this me having a child will save the relationship or mend it all. And I think it's. I honestly feel like it's almost more hurtful that you kind of. It's like a tease. You get a little bit and then it's gone again. And honestly like from. And I could be totally wrong, but I think from the way that you explain it too is maybe in his mind there are points that he wants to be there and show up and then he probably has a conflicting thing within himself of like, well, what's the point if I'm just going away anyway?

[Kara]

Right.

[Dvora]

Or maybe something where when he gets too close it makes him uncomfortable and his only option in his mind is to flee. Right. So it's like you never know. And that's not an excuse by any means, but it's just like, like humans are weird.

[Kara]

They are, you know, like it's complex,

[Dvora]

it's weird and it is, it's hard because it's like, you know, like we were saying before we started filming, which, which once again I know you'll get to. But even with like, you know, advocating for like, you know, children to be able to have the daddy daughter dances and.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

And things like that, it's. It's difficult because you know, in a. As a big picture view of things, it's like not a good idea. This, that and the others. There's so many reasons why it should be. No, absolutely. Then you don't think about the trauma it causes to a child. And people don't realize those things stick with you. Anytime a parent makes a false promise, anytime a parent doesn't show up, it's like we could forget our whole childhood years of it. But those little key things, they stick with you. You remember them and they do set the tone for how you are as a person, I think. And those little things can just help. It's more so for the child than for the parent.

[Kara]

Absolutely. Oh my gosh.

[Dvora]

You know what I mean? It's just like do it for the well being and the future of that child. Do it so that child doesn't feel like an outcast. Like we don't need any more of that. We don't need a child to feel like they are different or they should be embarrassed or like anything like. And I just feel like that's the last thing I'll say about it. But I just feel like there's not enough like knowledge and education on the not norm. If that makes Sense, like once when kids have something go on, even if it's like they just like lost their parent, you know, because that's another situation where that's so. It's so not an embarrassing thing. But as a child, if you have like a field trip and parents come and your parents are the only ones that aren't there because they're dead. Yeah, you feel uncomfortable, you feel awkward, you feel embarrassed and whatever else. And it's like, I feel like there's not enough education or openness about topics like that, like within the school system where other children know or are taught to just like, maybe provide more comfort or like something. I don't know, I don't have the answers for it. But, you know, I just think that it's kind of just brushed under the rug or like, oh, that's their situation. Like, yeah, it's sad, it sucks, but like, we can't stop it for the 90% that have the norm.

[Kara]

Exactly.

[Dvora]

It's not fair.

[Kara]

It's not fair. No, it's not at all. And you also, and what you said, you. It's not educated enough like to know to just even be able to ask somebody something. Hey, did you feel like this or does it still bother you today as an adult? There's not that resource there. You know, there's just not. And most importantly, everything that you feel as a child, it comes out to you in an adult way. Like it still follows you. It's still there. And a lot of the times it sucks. Like when you can't get rid of that guilt feeling or that oh shit feeling or the embarrassment feeling. Because it is still kind of just that. You know what I mean? It's still just that a little bit. And I think that's, I mean, you said it just right. I wanted so bad, just a little bit of me. Like, everything's gonna be okay. It's all gonna be okay.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

And then it, it then it just never was. Then it just never was. So I'll go back into where I was with my dad. We were. He went to prison, I went to go seeing him see him one time. One time. So. And then this is the, this crazy part happens as well. Gosh. And then. So we're going back and forth, but he. So after I went to go see him, it was probably about a year or two, he was still locked up. And I don't know if maybe at this point my dad's mind just kind of went crazy from being incarcerated for 30 some odd years or heavy drug use, but he was calling us and just talking about some pretty off the wall shit. Like at this point, he was like in his late. About six, probably about mid-60s at this point because my parents are just a little. They're older than me, but just off the wall shit. Okay. So he had called me and left me a voicemail and it was going off and he had said, yeah, Kara, you can't play games your whole life. You can run, but you can't hide. You think you're going to keep my grandson away from me? It's almost like he called me that night because he sat there and thought about all of his. His fears within mine and like, our relationship. Does that make sense? He was literally telling me, you can't keep my grandson from me. I'm gonna take you to jail. Well, first of all, no, you're not, because you're locked up. And I'm like, what is going on? Like something. And he had called me. He had called his brothers and sisters over a four wheeler and we're all calling each other and all trying to put our heads together around. What the hell are you talking about? What four Will are you talking about dad? Like, what are you in there actually doing? Yeah, have you lost your. Have you lost it? Like, come on. So. And we. It was just some pretty crazy off the wall shit. And then he said something to me that. He said this and that's all he needed to say. He told me that prison was the best thing that ever happened to him and that he didn't want to be anywhere but prison. Okay, you said that to me when I had just spent my whole life grieving you. Okay, you just said that to me, hoping and wishing that it was up to you, like I said, to fix. To fix everything. And you said that to, to your kids, you said that shit like, don't talk to me anymore. That's when I was like, you're done. Because I no longer could allow that. I could not allow our relationship to take over my life because it was. And at that point I was done. Done with them. So it was, you know, everything that kind of happened was, I'm going to say the second time he was in prison kind of happened within like maybe two or three years. So everything was pretty, pretty still fresh, so to speak. It was still like, oh, you know, what's going on? It's a mess. So my brother, my oldest brother had at this point, right, My brothers were in contact with him. I was not. I had cut all contact off. They still talked to him. So My. One of my oldest brother, he hadn't heard from my dad in a couple of days and he started to get worried and he was like, you know, where's he at? Is he okay? Like, I don't understand where he's at. Nobody tells him anything. He tries to get in contact with the prison. Nobody tells him anything at all. Come to find out my dad had a stroke in prison in a cell. And he was left there a little bit longer than he needed to be, which caused my dad to be. He was then paralyzed completely on his left hand side. So this, that this had happened over. It was over a weekend time that my brother had found this out. And my brother finally gets told that he went up and had the stroke and he was in the hospital up there and that he was getting out of prison. Because I'm assuming. I didn't really ask because at this point I wasn't in contact with them, but I'm assuming because he was more of a liability.

[Dvora]

Okay. I'm surprised they can just. Right for such a long sentence too, for.

[Kara]

And especially being a. They call them PFOs. Persistent Felony Offenders.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

And so. And that's what he was just from like the drug bus and the charges and stuff before. So I don't really know why or how he got out, but I remember that there was like talks that my dad was going to go live with my. My oldest brother. Well, my niece, his youngest daughter was still living with him at the time and flipped out. I'm like, no, no. Because I had to live through it and look at what it. Look at the trauma it caused. Look at everything it cost, who he's

[Dvora]

bringing into that house when he's not there.

[Kara]

Exactly. I said I completely flipped. I was like, you cannot. It can't happen. Do not fuck her life up. Don't do it. And my nephew's like, oh my gosh, it was so bad. So my brother respected me. He respected that for sure. And they were trying to find a nursing home for him, I guess. I'm not really sure what had happened, but he was, he was, he's. He was probably out of prison maybe three years before he passed away. So he was still like in an. In the nursing home. He was still, I guess, sheltered. He was still in a confined living area.

[Dvora]

Did you ever visit him in that time?

[Kara]

I did not.

[Dvora]

Okay.

[Kara]

No. I did not visit him. No. Because I was. I pretty much had wrote him off at that point. He had. I did. I was around him once, maybe twice. And my son had Met him those times, but just for, like an hour or so. I never let my son get too close to him. And I never talked about my dad a whole, whole lot in front of my son, just so my son wouldn't ever be like me and ask questions and just be curious, you know? Like, I knew that my dad was never going to be able to hold up a relationship or be a grandpa. And so I wanted to just kind of bear that, you know, I kind of wanted to just. Nah, we're gonna. I can handle it. Like, let me handle it. It's okay. Again, I just kind of followed my mom's advice. I did not tell K. Or I told Kayson the truth about everything and told him why I didn't want to talk to my dad. And so I told him everything so he could get an understanding. So I had gotten a phone call also during this time that my dad had a pretty. Pretty serious surgery. I can't remember what it was. Maybe something on his liver, something definitely internal. And that they weren't sure he was gonna make it. And they were like, carrie, you need to come see him. And I'm like, okay. So I remember, like, hanging up off the phone, hanging the phone up. And I was like, I don't know about that, because you know how many times I needed him to come and see me, and he wasn't there. Now it's now. Now he wants to see me. I need to do this. No, I'm done. Like, I'm done.

[Dvora]

Right? And because he's dying.

[Kara]

Right? Right. I'm done.

[Dvora]

That's what it takes.

[Kara]

Exactly. Well, I just really think, you know, and some of his family. Well, I just really, really think that you would regret this. And I'm just gonna say this much. I don't want to say a whole lot just to keep. Kind of keep the peace. His family never supported him. His family never had anything good to say about him. His family didn't really care how we were doing. They saw us on Christmas and Thanksgiving. That was it. And then when we got older, we told my mom, you don't have to keep taking us, like, to these functions. So his family, he never, never just really had a bunch of support from them. His family was saying, oh, yeah, I really think you need to make amends, meet with them. And I said, okay, I can do that. Put him on the phone, like, right then and there in the hospital. I did not care. And I told him everything that I felt. I told him exactly how I felt about everything my entire life. I said, you know, dad, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that we could not have a father daughter relationship that we both wanted so very badly, because we did. You could tell, despite everything that had happened, you could tell that my dad did want to be a good person, that he did want to do the right thing. He did want to try his hardest. And I said, it just never happened. You know, it's not your fault, it's not my fault, but it's just something that we need to let go. It's just something that we need to let go. I'm sorry I said, but, you know, you did more. More harm than you did good to me and the boys my whole life. And I just wished him well. I just wished him well. I told him that I loved him. And did. I mean that at that moment? I don't think so. And I think that that's so fucked up for me to say, but it's just something that. I don't know if I did.

[Dvora]

Yeah, that's okay.

[Kara]

Do sometimes we say I love you out of habit? Habit. And I think that's. That's not okay. I don't think we need to just freely throw that around nonetheless, so to speak, I guess, if that makes any sense at all. So then this is when I guess I start getting introduced to the guilt. So my dad makes it out of the surgery, right? And I'm like, well, now what? I done cussed you out when you were dying on the table. I've already, you know, dismissed this whole relationship. What do I. I don't know. I don't know what more I can do. So I had. He had tried to talk to me so much after he got out, after he made that surgery. He tried and he tried and he tried. He was getting everybody he knew that knew me to talk to me. He was asking them, hey, if you can get her a chance to tell her to just talk to me, just to come see me, right? Would even tell. There was somebody I had went to school with that I'm assuming was a nurse or something in the facility that he was in. And I didn't know it at the time, but said person was showing him, you know, pictures and stuff of me and of my son. And I had seen this person out one time, and he pulled me over to the side, and he was like, hey, Kara. He was like, I know. Your dad told me what happened, right, with everything and your whole life growing up. He said, but I really think that you need to give him a chance, he said, because his Whole entire face lights up when you. When he talks about you. When he sees pictures of Cason, that's all he talks about is you. And I knew that was true because how much he tried to reach out to me. He would call me days in and days out, and I didn't answer. I was a bitch, a cold hearted bitch. And even told that person who, you know, dealt with my dad a little bit, like, I don't give a fuck about him. I don't care. You know, My life's better without him. And during this time, it's like he was almost too sick to be this badass anymore, you know? Then my brother. I was at work one day and my oldest brother called me. No, he messages me and he said, hey, call me. And I was like, okay. And he said, kara, I know you don't care. He said, but they're calling a hospice in on dad and I don't think he's gonna make it. And I was like frozen. I've never had this feeling of being frozen before. I didn't know what to do. Cause as to be real, it was already too late, right? It was already too late. And I was like, I still don't think I'm over that. I still don't think that I know how to handle that. I'm learning. But I do know I didn't hesitate. He was probably about an hour away from us. And I didn't hesitate. I went right there. So I went right there and my dad was just already asleep. You know how like when somebody passes, they're just in a very peaceful, like resentment or resting state. And I just. I remember going there and I didn't leave his side up until it was time to leave for the night. I just. Okay, sorry. I'm jumping ahead. Kills me. But I remember going and just being by his side. And he wasn't awake. But they could. They told me he could still hear me. And so I told him that I forgave him and that I loved him and that I was sorry. Cause more than anything, I am sorry for maybe being so cold hearted, for being so maybe dismissive when I could have been a little bit more understanding, you know? So I told him I wanted him to know that. And I just remember looking at this man and I felt so sorry for him. Like laying in that bed and I'm like, here you are with nobody. You're done with nobody except your children. You know, like, it's crazy. That's just what I remember thinking, just thinking, being. Just feeling so sorry. For him. So I had went home that night and because I was with my sister in law and my niece and my brothers stayed with him and they got through the night. And so the next morning I was on my way and I was driving up there and this is also a town that I was not super, you know, familiar with. And I just remember my brother calling me and saying that, you know, he was gone, that he was gone. And I remember like getting cold. I remember literally getting cold and so numb and just like what it was, it was fucked up. I remember I pulled over to the side at a gas station, went to the bathroom and I texted my friend. I was like, he's gone. And I'm like, he's just like that, you know. So I go and see him before the funeral home picks him up and what would, what it. It's what you would expect. And I'll never forget they had brought. The funeral home came and they got his, his body out of his room. And during that time we were packing his things up. It was just me and my brothers. And I'll never forget this, like, even, even when you are so old and you are on not in good circumstances. Old habits die so hard you can't let them go. So we're packing all this stuff up and we. My dad, when he would talk to us like in prison and stuff, would always tell us, you know, silly little things like, hey, never, never. You always have a weapon on you. Always make sure you're protected. This, that and the other. And my dad was just such a wild like person too. Like, just, I wish that I could paint the whole story or tell the whole story on how my vision of him was. But he. So we get to the last drawer and it's a bunch of socks. So we get to the last. We get to the corner of the drawer and there's a pair of socks with a mason jar in it. And we're like, me and my brothers are looking at each other, each other, and we're like, what the hell is this? It was his holy water that he got baptized with and it had the date on it. And why it was in a pair of socks we can only imagine it was used for in the sake of his mind. He felt safer because he had that. And it was just like you were. You came in here after doing 30 years in the penitentiary. You know, collectively you're dying, but you are still going to make sure you're protected. Like, we were so shocked by that. We were so shocked by that. So we get Home, we go home and we, we wrap everything up. We get home and they. My dad was not going to have a funeral. And that was not a decision that was made like prior by us. That was a decision made by his mom and dad or, I'm sorry, his family. And we said, no, we want to have him a funeral. We want to show him. And he deserves, he deserves at least two hours. He deserves at least that much. So I'll never forget, me and my brothers spent 12 hours by ourself planning this man's funeral. Okay? So that's 12 hours of coming up with somebody's whole life that you don't really know much about. And I'll never forget. And I don't. I'm not saying this because I'm mad that like nobody helped us or, you know, everybody didn't drop what they were doing and cater to us. That. That's not what I mean by this. But you know, me and my brothers had 12 hours to plan this funeral. And not one person other than my mom asked us if we needed anything, even a bottle of water. And the amount of pictures we had to go through, the amount of people we had to call just to get, just to get information on our dad, you know, like little things. We had so much shit we had to do. And no one, not anybody. You know, when people tell you it's a cold world, all you have is yourself, they're not lying because all you truly have is, is yourself as a person and a good family if you're blessed enough to have that. So because the alternative was he was just going to have like a showing with his urine for 30 minutes. No, I just. To me he needed more than that. And this is, I think, another, really another reason why I want to do daddy daughter dances so bad. I want to get those into the state in Kentucky for the non violent offenders. Even though my dad would not have qualified for this, which is okay, we had to start somewhere. Because the funeral, the day my dad's funeral was the only time that my dad did not look like a criminal. That was the only time he was dressed up. It was the only time he looked normal. There was another time, one time before that, but he was so just fucked up that it didn't, it didn't matter. He wasn't truly there, but that was the only time. And I just remember looking that whole day at his funeral just feeling so sorry for this man, so sorry for him. Because just like that, like it happened all just like that. Like how he, I mean, his Life was just over. And he never got a fucking fair chance. He never got a fair chance. He never. He was just. The odds were against him to the core almost. It seemed like every single time. And he just did not. And that bothers me. And I don't know why it even still bothers me to this day, but I'm like, he was still a person. He still deserved to be. To dress like a decent person. Besides a khaki or green or an orange suit, 24 7, you know, and I just. I'm just trying to get through that part still. And we're coming up on the one year and I truly think. Let me back up. I did not make amends, meet with my dad. That's still something that I'm going through and something that's going to take a long time for me to go through, I think because there's a lot of guilt I'm holding in and because I didn't have to be a bitch to him.

[Dvora]

I don't think you were, if you don't mind me saying.

[Kara]

No. No, I don't. You don't think so? I couldn't.

[Dvora]

I think. Think it's your dad. So that's. Of course, that's why you feel that way. But I think that if I was sitting here telling you this story, you'd feel how I feel. And I think sometimes we need to learn to separate that. Just because they're our blood. Just because. Yeah. His sperm brought you into this world. He never showed up for you.

[Kara]

Never.

[Dvora]

And he had chances. And I'm a very strong believer in the world can. Look, every. Every situation is different. But at the end of the day, you make. You make the choice. And he had times where I'm sure he was completely sober, you know, And I think he still made the choice not to show up, not to stay clean, not to be there. And I'm sorry, but there is something as. It's too late in the sense of just because he's older now and he's not the badass he is or was, and now he wants to come back and be a part of you. Like he lights up now. But what about the little girl that needed him? You don't need him now. You needed him then. So I don't think you should hold that guilt. I don't think you need to. You don't owe him anything. He didn't give you anything that you need to owe him.

[Kara]

That's true.

[Dvora]

So I think that you feel the way you do because you're a Good person. Because we're taught to respect our parents no matter what, and love our parents and our parents, give us this and this, which, like you said, if you're blessed with good ones, yeah, they do give you those things. And they set up the foundation. He didn't give you a foundation. You built that on your own with your mom, with your grandma, you know, like.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

I think that you have to get through the guilt that you feel within yourself, but I don't think that's really a guilt that you have because of him.

[Kara]

Him.

[Dvora]

I think that's what you think, but I think it's more like a. I think maybe you wish that you acted different so that you felt better about it, but you truly didn't owe him that. Does that make sense?

[Kara]

Yes, it makes. It makes perfect sense. Absolutely.

[Dvora]

And I guarantee you, anybody, like, I. I get why you feel the way you do. I'm not saying, like, you're entitled to feel however you want, you know, and you're going to. Honestly, no one can control it. You know what I mean? We can't even control how we feel because anybody knows that, you know, when you're going through any type of sadness, even if for a relatable example, in another, completely off topic in another way would be like, when you're going through a breakup, you know, and it could be with the worst person in the world that abused you, beat the shit out of you, right? And you can tell yourself one day, like, fuck him. I owe him nothing. I should never be with him again. But then you still have this feeling in your heart of like, but I love him. And I think that's more what it is. I think it's that. Because that's your dad, of course, like, you love him, and that's okay. To love somebody, like, deep down, to care for them, to feel bad for them, to want better for them, that's fine. But I don't think you should carry any sort of guilt because you did show up time and time again. You tried time and time again, and he didn't want it. He wasn't ready. So then when he's ready, this is not his world that everyone's living in. This isn't anyone's world. This is. Everybody's on their own path. And, you know, children need love. They need support. He didn't give you that?

[Kara]

No.

[Dvora]

So for you to feel, you know, I think it's definitely okay for us to reflect on our actions and be like, you know, I could have been nicer in that situation. I Could have been more open, but the reality is, in that moment, that's how you felt. And while, yes, maybe you could have been more nice to him and more open, that's not to say you'd actually, like, feel those ways. So why mask it? Why fake it? You could feel just as guilty for faking it. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's not really like, if that's how you felt, then you can't regret it because that's how you felt in that moment. It's not like you. I think you just were wearing your feelings on your sleeve. You were angry, you were bitter. You have the right to feel that way.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

I just think we're very hard on ourselves sometimes. We can be our own worst enemy. But I don't think you, you don't deserve to hold any more guilt.

[Kara]

I appreciate you saying that. And I'm learning that.

[Dvora]

Yeah. And it takes time.

[Kara]

Yeah. And it does. Everything does, in fact, take time. Right. And there's no buts to it. There's not. I guess what you said you did just.

[Dvora]

It's sad and it sucks. And like I said, it's very unfortunate that his life went the path it did.

[Kara]

Right. Right.

[Dvora]

It sucks. But it. Your, everyone's actions, they have consequences.

[Kara]

And I guess maybe that's also what caused the anger towards him so much to what you said. Because it just, man, time and time again, there's so much effort, and it's really. I just wanted to look at him and be like, you were supposed to want that, did this. You were supposed to want to show the effort, and then you didn't. And it just, it sucks.

[Dvora]

It sucks too. Like, because like I said, of course, you know, anyone that you care about, even if they're not a great person, you still want the best for them. I mean, unless you're just an evil human, you're not going to, like, wish bad, right, upon anybody. So of course you can reflect on those things and say, you know, I wish he did this, this, and this. But, you know, we have no control over other people, and we can hope and wish the best for them, and they still continue to make the same choices that his priorities were there, they were, not with his family. And I mean, I, I. The most blunt way to put it is you see it how it is. That's how. How it was. That's how it is. And your actions, you got to a point where you were fed up, you were done, and that's why you acted the way you did. And it's not. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. And I think that now it's just one of those things that, you know, it's kind of this full circle moment where you can reflect on all the different things you felt as a child, as a teenager, as an adult, you're allowed to dissect those feelings. Even now. You can have days where you might, you, I say this all the time in my guests. You might have a day where you feel like, oh, I'm fine, I'm not thinking about it, I don't care. The next day you might feel guilty again and miserable and hate yourself and whatever else it might be.

[Kara]

Yep.

[Dvora]

You know, you. Every day is going to be different.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

But I think what you're doing by spreading awareness, speaking out about it, and beyond all of what you went through, you're saying, hey, let's try to get something together to help other little children.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

And I think that's where you're going to find the most healing and fulfillment in the situation. Because I think sometimes you kind of have to remove yourself from it. Like, like acknowledge it, dissect it, understand it, let yourself feel what you need to feel. But then I think you kind of look at it from an outside perspective and you're like, I have one of two options. I either sit in it and keep feeling it and feeling it and feeling. And there's nothing I can do about it now except keep dissecting it, which just drives yourself crazy on a loop.

[Kara]

Yep.

[Dvora]

Or I can try to make a change. I can try to help others. I can try to speak out and share my story in hopes to help somebody else.

[Kara]

Absolutely. And I want that. That's all that I want. And you're exactly right. The only way I feel like I am going to find pieces getting my hands dirty with the situation, getting involved and just doing what I can. Because why does it, why does any relationship with anybody from the on the inside, why does it have to be so exchanged? Why does it have to be so. Just distant, so cold and it doesn't, it doesn't have to be like that.

[Dvora]

And you know, I think too, not only you speaking out, it doesn't only help children, it could help parents too. It could give them an inside look of how a child feels because of the results of possibly their actions or their lack of actions.

[Kara]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And if I, if I could sit here and go back or until any little girl that's going through this shit right now, if I could tell her anything I would tell her, be vigilant. Stay vigilant in that kind of situation and to love yourself. Because what you said, you're not going to find love. Sometimes we don't find love from the people we need to the most.

[Dvora]

And it sucks, you know, like, it's. We. Like I said, we're meant to think and feel naturally like we want our parents there.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

You know, and I think that a lot of times if you, Especially when you are a loving, good person, you fight for that for a while, then you get fed up of fighting for it for a while. And the thing is too, is you got to a point in your life where you no longer were just a daughter. You became a mother.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

So your priorities changed. Your. Things shifted. You had a different perspective on life and a different understanding of how you now needed to show up. And that could also could have caused some bitterness in how you reacted because you're like, maybe you guys are two different people. Even though that's your dad, you're two different people. So it's like in your mind you're probably like, I can't imagine treating my child this way. No, the fact that you could do that, it gives you an anger inside. And it's okay to feel that too, you know, But I. I do think eventually you heal from that as well. Even if it's, you know, after the person's already gone, you know, but that's something that. I think it's all within yourself. I don't think. I don't believe that we can ever get healing from a person. I think we get healing from within ourselves.

[Kara]

Yes. I could not agree. Definitely could not agree anymore. And you said you were talking about angriness and bitterness and what that causes to a young woman. And I should have said this earlier. I'm sorry, but daddy issues. Yeah, look, daddy issues doesn't always look like jumping from man to man to man. Daddy issues is. Is putting up with so much abuse, you know, so much abusive traits, tendencies, so much emotional abuse that even. That's what that means. Because even daddy issues literally mean, hey, I'm you. Okay, let me back up because I got lost. To me, what daddy issues is. To me, it's allowing yourself to deal with something even though it's not necessarily just out here jumping. It's putting up with shit that you don't need to put up with, but you don't know that it's not right.

[Dvora]

Well, yeah, because he was your example of a man. Yeah. So your standards naturally aren't going to be that high when you're not shown a loving man ever. Yeah. Like, who else is there to really teach you that if you think about it.

[Kara]

Exactly.

[Dvora]

The only other blueprint you really have is if you're watching love movies. And even those can be toxic. So it's like, what do you really have?

[Kara]

Right.

[Dvora]

You know, and it's. It's tough and it's. It definitely, like you said, they can. Daddy issues can look so different, and it can show up in. In so many different ways. It could even be. It could even, I think, go beyond just men. But it could lead to anxiety. It could lead to, you know, abandonment issues and everything in between, whether it comes with that could be in friendships, that could be in anything. I agree.

[Kara]

And constantly questioning your worth.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Right. Because you can sit here and have people tell you all these wonderful, great things about you forever, for your whole life, but you still don't believe it. You know what I'm saying? You still. There's still something off inside you where you're just like, yeah, but. And I truly think it's because I never had. I was missing a parent to remind me of those things.

[Dvora]

And that is 100% true.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

But how sad is it that as human beings, we feel that we need another human being to validate that?

[Kara]

It's. It's.

[Dvora]

Isn't it so sad?

[Kara]

It's so sad because we don't.

[Dvora]

We should never give anyone that power.

[Kara]

No.

[Dvora]

Not a mom, not a dad, not a sister, not our child, nothing.

[Kara]

No.

[Dvora]

You have that power within yourself.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

Because as easily and as amazing as it can feel for somebody to give it, all it takes is for them to disappoint you one time, and it's just like it's all gone.

[Kara]

Yep. I agree.

[Dvora]

And it sucks.

[Kara]

It does.

[Dvora]

You know, like, as humans, we are meant to connect. We are meant to. To feel. We are meant to make each other happy and joyful. But we do have to remember, you said it in the most blunt way, like, you really only have yourself at

[Kara]

the end of the day.

[Dvora]

Best thing you can do is work on that.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

No matter. Even if you've had the most perfect life, you can never work on yourself too much. You can never love yourself too much. You know, shower yourself with every. Every positive thing you can.

[Kara]

Yes. And I think you know that it just comes from what you said, like what we agreed on as a child. You learn and see all these things happen. Being so young and it's hard to get out. Like I said earlier, it's hard to get out of bad habits. It's just. It's for life.

[Dvora]

But I will say, too, look where you are now. Like, you could have also made a decision because of your environment growing up.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

To go down a similar path as your dad. To go down a path that was just shit.

[Kara]

Oh, absolutely.

[Dvora]

You are like, yeah. You might carry this aftermath of pain and guilt and driving yourself nuts and loops in your head, and that sucks in its own way.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

But look how much action you're taking. You're a strong, beautiful woman. You're an amazing mother.

[Kara]

Thank you.

[Dvora]

You know, and you're here to help others. You don't have to do that. So you need to give yourself some credit and realize, like, damn, I did that. I went through that. I wasn't dealt necessarily the best cards in that sense, you know? But here I. And you could even be. So you could be as bitter as to not want to help anybody because you didn't have it like that. And there are some people that turn out that way where they're like, well, if I couldn't have it, I don't want anyone to have it. But there you have. You still have this heart and this love in your heart that you're like. You know, even though it. Mine isn't this, like, kind of like, perfect happy ending where we have this great relationship and whatever else. Like, let me try to prevent this or let me try to implement things that could help other people.

[Kara]

Yes.

[Dvora]

And that is a beautiful thing that not. Not everybody can do that.

[Kara]

Thank you. I feel like in. In doing so, that's going to be not only closure, bringing yourself so much peace and so much more happiness, too. Like, I feel like that's all that I need. Like, I don't know. But if. Yeah. Sorry. I'm just.

[Dvora]

You're okay.

[Kara]

It's been an emotional day. So we're good? It's.

[Dvora]

Yeah. You're doing great.

[Kara]

Yeah. I just. I don't know what you said. I like what you said. You said that I don't have to feel guilty. So now I'm just, like, kind of stuck on that. I'm like, she's right. She's right. But I just want to know that. Actually, I don't want to know anything. I don't know what I was gonna say. Oh, goodness. I got you.

[Dvora]

I got you all confused now.

[Kara]

No, you did not throw me off. You're good. You did not throw me off. What's there.

[Dvora]

I want to. I wanted to make sure, too. I know that you Wanted to talk about the, the. The Daddy Daughter dances, which you did. Was there anything else that was on your mind that you wanted to, like, bring awareness to or talk about? Like, as far as. I wasn't sure if there was more of that kind of stuff or. No, no, that was your main thought of that.

[Kara]

Just kind of. Yeah. Wanting to do or trying to get that involved in it. And, and if I can, because I'm, you know, a lot of the times you have to be careful because when you do try to help with, like, families in situations like this, it does in fact require a degree.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Like you'll get stopped so far. And that's what I have against me. I don't have a degree in the social work field. Wanted to, but just could never. You know, I was handed having a mom. All this shit was going on. Something had to give. I just want more than anything and I don't. And I don't even know how to go about it. I don't even know where I would start. But all the questions and the confusions I had as a little girl that maybe my mom couldn't answer, my family couldn't answer. Just want to be able to be there for those children, to be like, well, you know, this what could happen. This what could not happen. I want to be there for them so they do have somebody to talk to. So they do have somebody to understand, like, where it is and not feel embarrassed. Not make up a fake name of your parent when you're talking to your friends or other people. I want them to just 100% have like an outlet.

[Dvora]

Right.

[Kara]

I want to have an outlet. I think it is so, so important. I want. I know that San Quan or Saquon. I don't know if I'm necessarily pronouncing that prison the right way or not. They recently actually did Daddy Daughter dances. And this was even after our call. And I was like, oh, my God, I cannot believe this. Like, that's amazing. And it's important to me. And that's where my heart is. Is because I think one. Even if it's not the ideal setting, but to see your dad or any parent for once, look, put together, put together, it means so much more than what anybody could think because don't save it for their funeral.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Don't save it until it's the last. Till it's too late. Don't save it for that. And you know, a lot of people might say, well, that's what they get. That's what they get. That's what they deserve. They did something to be there. They. Or they did something to put themselves in there, you know, but the children, we didn't do anything wrong. We did not put them in there. We had no control over it. So why are we getting robbed of something so small that meant something so big? You know when children shouldn't be punished, when it's not their fault.

[Dvora]

Absolutely, I agree with that.

[Kara]

It just shouldn't. And I know, you know there are amazing, amazing support systems out there for, for anybody who, for any child that's gone through this, your uncles, your, Your aunts or uncles, your grandparents, anything. But at the end of the day you just, it's just not your dad, you know, it's. You still have replaces that. It never replaces it.

[Dvora]

Maybe there's something you could get involved in where you don't need. It's like not super high up. Where it's like you don't need like a full degree, but it's like almost. I don't know if that would be like a non profit or like something where it's like you could help and you could be a resource and literally just be there.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

And support and write to some. Like to children. Yes. But not. And I'm sure it requires other things like background check, whatever else.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

Like not a, like not where you had to go to school but just to be there. Because I don't think you need to get go to school. It's not like you're trying to like dissect their brains.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

You want them to know that someone gets it. And honestly that's more than education can give. Experience.

[Kara]

You know, And I want to share exactly how it is like hey, you're. Or maybe even if like hey, you're getting ready to go in here.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

It's gonna, you're gonna expect all these things, but you have to remember xyz.

[Dvora]

And even if you're comfortable with it, whether it's like a. Your email or something, we could. Oh, I'm happy to link that in the description. So if anybody is listening that wants to reach out to you and try to start something, whatever it could be.

[Kara]

Absolutely. Because this, these things take. It takes a village.

[Dvora]

I was going to say.

[Kara]

Yep.

[Dvora]

Takes an arm.

[Kara]

It takes a village. And the daddy daughter dances even with you. I'm like, well I don't. Do I really need school to get in here? No. Would I need to pass a background check? Sure. Yes. But I could even get. Or try and in hopes to get people to like tux places. You know, can we just get like 10. 10 people at a time to rent it out because. And let them have that moment.

[Dvora]

Right.

[Kara]

Just let them have. To me, because I just. I think it's so much more important.

[Dvora]

I agree.

[Kara]

I think it's. And that's truly. Truly what I want to do so bad. I want to. I don't know what the system has to do.

[Dvora]

Yeah.

[Kara]

To, like, get it to work, to make transition, to. To make the relationship with any parent that's inside with their child. I don't. I know. I'm sure there's parenting programs and things like that, but I think that you have to. What? You said you have to go beyond textbooks. You have to. Yeah, kind of. Let's get real. Let's go straight to the point with it. I think you have to kind of. Yeah, get real. It's intricate.

[Dvora]

You have to, like. There's a lot of. I feel like a little moving pieces to it, but you can figure it out. There's something. I just think it takes, you know, the right people, the right conversations and having people that can relate and really believe in it.

[Kara]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dvora]

You know.

[Kara]

Yeah.

[Dvora]

You did amazing.

[Kara]

Thank you.