Podcast Host (5:53)

They do, yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (5:54)

Okay. I feel like the younger generations are so healthy and don't do stuff like that anymore. But, um, I, I, I was, I remember dancing with this guy and he was getting a little too familiar and I felt like I needed some help. Um, cause I couldn't extrapolate myself from the situation. I was, I wasn't freaked out, but I was like looking around for somebody help me. And I made eye contact with this guy. Um, and I waved him over and he looked at me and just kind of laughed and went back to his phone. And I thought, no, I don't think so. Like, that's not how this is going to go. And he looks up again and I waved him over and he came over. Um, I thought he said his name was Orek. He was from SW and I'd never met anybody from Sweden before, so that seemed likely. And turns out his name is Eric and we've been married now for 18 years. So. Wow. He came over and saved me. He also turned out to be a really terrible dancer and so I was like, maybe we should just like go have a drink or something and talk. And we've been talking. Yeah. For a really long time. So he's really how I ended up in Somalia. He was based in Nairobi, but his, his expertise was working with Somali governments. And, and so he actually we got it married a year and a half after that night, that Saturday night. And he switched organizations and was being, he was based in Hargeysa Somaliland, which is like if you look at Somalia on a map, it kind of looks like a seven. And so the Horn of Africa is actually right at the top of that top corner of that seven. He was being based up in Harge Somaliland. And Somalia is divided into three, three parts, I guess you would say. The only one that's really recognized internationally is the southern part, which is where Mogadishu is. And if you ever hear of anything happening in Somalia, it's usually because something bad has happened in Mogadishu. But we were up in the north in Hargeysa where Most of the NGOs, the international and non governmental organizations were based. And you know, I didn't want to have a long distance marriage. He didn't either. He was only coming back every couple, every Three weeks or something. And that didn't feel like a great way to start a marriage. So I quit my teaching job and moved up to Somalia with him, to Somaliland, because, you know, I figured I'm up for the adventure. There are people in need everywhere. Teachers always land on their feet. And so, you know, that's really what happened. I moved up to Harge. So we Got married in 2000, 2009. Moved up to Hargeysa that summer. And, you know, before I knew it, I had Ethiopian refugees that were working on the compound we were living on, coming in after work to learn English. And, you know, there were some kids on the compound. I'm always like, kids and animals, like, connect with them. We started a permaculture farm on the compound. And so it was just like, lots of cool stuff going on. And then word got out that there was a teacher in town, like a real teacher, right, who actually had, like, a degree and everything. And so I was approached by the Ministry of Education for Somaliland to help them develop curriculum. And then that turned into a job working for the Danish Demining Group, which was an NGO that was the Mine Action Unit of the Danish Refugee Council. So if anybody listening has ever heard of, like, Save the Children or, you know, any of these big international nonprofits, essentially that's what it was. But it was based out of Denmark and funded primarily by the Danish government. And so they needed help with their education around community safety, armed violence reduction, mine risk education. A lot of the, the communities that they worked in, where they were doing mine clearance. So a lot of these communities were maybe 5, 10, 15 years post civil war. And so there were still explosives left laying around their communities, especially on the outskirts. And so it virtually made the. Those parts of the communities uninhabitable or they couldn't move through them easily. And kids would go out there and see something shiny and they would pick it up, up and it would explode on them. It could, it could blow their arms off or blind them or kill them. So, I mean, the threats were pretty serious. Um, not to mention, you know, in these communities where people are nomadic, they're. They're like hurting goats or camels. If they can't get their livestock across certain parts of for grazing, then that's, that's going to really impact, like, their overall, like, quality of life. So the, the. We had lots of mandates, but my job primarily was to ensure that the messages, like, we had, you know, caution messages and safety messages for kids especially, that they understood them. So, you know, working with local authors and illustrators to create artwork and messaging and, and, and, and a lot of these people groups are nomadic, so they're not literate and they have low literacy. And so it was just like I didn't even know a job like that existed. And as a teacher, like I'm once a teacher, always a teacher, like, I'll always have a heart for teaching. I was just like, I mean, it makes me tear up thinking about it because I, I just loved every minute of it. It just was, it felt so, it felt like we were doing something that mattered to people. And it felt like I felt like I was helping and that's really what I wanted to do. That's really why I was there. And I did that for about two and a half years. It ended up that I became the regional education advisor for the company. And so I was working, working in South Sudan again. So that felt awesome. And then going into northern Uganda and I mean, some of these places I went into, like, I don't even know if they'd ever seen a white person before. You know, it was that, I mean, we're talking like primitive and out very outlying areas. And I mean, just from a, like an experience perspective, I mean, it was just like, you know, I, I, some, I don't get a lot of chances to talk about that because people always want to hear about the other stuff, you know, But I mean, just like, I think sometimes how lucky I am that I have. I got to experience that and to witness those parts of the world and what, how other people live and function. And it's just incredible. And I feel so lucky for that. And then 2011 rolled around, October 2011, and I, part of my portfolio included southern Somalia, and I hadn't gone down there to do my job yet. I'd brought their staff up to Hargeysa, where I was based, because it was safer. Yeah. And. But the time came up that I needed to, to get down there and do a staff training because that was part of my, my responsibility. My counterpart at the time was a Danish guy, a friend of mine. His name is Paul. He was like 30 years older than me. He'd been work and humanitarian aid work his entire career. So, I mean, he'd seen everything. And we had, we would hang out every time he came up to Hargisa, so we were pretty good friends. And he had asked me to come down and do a training for his staff. And I had, I had to, it was my job. But I had actually canceled the training twice because I didn't feel good about it. I had this, like, this gut feeling at the time. I thought I was just being paranoid, and I was being. I felt. I felt afraid. And I think a lot of times it's hard for people to discern what's intrusive and what's intuition. At least it was for me. And so I called him up a couple of days before I was supposed to go down to do this training, and I said, you know, I don't. I don't feel good about it. I didn't say I was scared, but I just said, I don't feel good about this. Can we do something? Can we bring them up? I'll pay for it, out of my budget, whatever. And he basically, you know, I'm not quoting him verbatim, but the. The message was, look, this is the third time we've scheduled this. My. My team's expecting you. This is your job. Get down here and do it, or I'm going to report you to your supervisor, and we'll find somebody else who will. And I got off the phone knowing that he was right. Yeah. And also feeling like I was right. And, you know, I talked to my husband, who's been working in the region for many years, and it was kind of like, well, you know, there's always a risk. There's an inherent risk involved, because this is. This is Somalia. This is third world. But what are the chances, right, that something's gonna happen? You're just going down for a couple of days? You know, he was like, what did your security adviser say? And I. I went through the protocols. They said, yep, you're fine. You're good to go. The security alerts were low coming from the un, which was our, you know, like, our designated. Like, that's where we got our security information.

Podcast Host (15:41)

And you weren't going long term.

Jessica Buchanan (15:42)

It was just. No, I was just going for, like, two nights, three nights, was it? I think it was two nights and three nights.

Podcast Host (15:48)

Which is honestly, like, even more interesting that you had that gut feeling about it. You know what I mean? Because I can. I feel like, too, if it was something where it was going to be long term, I feel like in that sense, you could kind of be like, am I just overthinking it? But the fact that it was going to be something that was shorter, you would think it would just go over your head, like, okay, go quickly. Come back.

Jessica Buchanan (16:08)

Right? Just get it done. Right. This is my job. I mean, I had gone on field missions that were much longer in much more remote parts of, of Africa that I didn't have this feeling about. You know, in probably some pretty shady situations too where I'm like on compounds alone for weeks at a time where I don't see anybody but you know, staff who go away at night. And I'm, I, I spent an entire week alone on a compound in the middle of South Sudan which should have never happened but, and I was fine. So I just thought, you know, like something is going on with me. You know, I'm, I'm being paranoid. I'd also like I was in a, a weird emotional space. My mom had passed away the year before and so I was still really struggling, you know, with my grief. And so I just thought I'm just being oversensitive and at the same time also like I love my job. Like I don't want to do anything to jeopardize it. I don't. I was working in a very heavily male dominated environment. A lot of these guys were like, you know, past military, they're very tough because we're working at mine. Action. And you got me this like American who's like super creative teacher like all in my feelings all the time. And they, I mean I was not their favorite person, let's just say that. But I, I mean I, I, I did a good job at what I was assigned to do. So you know, I think we do this all the time. I was just like, what's the worst thing that can happen, right? I'm a school teacher from Ohio. Like I'm just, just get on that plane, get the job done, pull up your big girl panties and we'll, it'll be fine. So I, I'll never forget walking into the guest house. So Galkao at the time was divided into two parts and there was what they call a green line that divided the, the two parts of the city because it was essentially governed by opposing clans. And there was a lot of clan conflict over resources, right? Like water, land boundaries, camels. So we had staff and guest house and office on the north side. And the staff that worked on the north side could not cross over into the south because they belonged to different clans. So we were the ones who had to cross over. And we had separate guest house and office and staff in the south. So when we, I remember like being picked up from the airport and then walking into the guest house and Paul says to me, don't go out on the veranda. It was like on the second floor of this, this big house, this big like cement house. Don't go Sit on the veranda. Because see that house over there? And there's a house way off in the distance. He's like, apparently it's a pirate den. And when they. When they, like, I don't know, I guess get money or whatever, they shoot their guns off to celebrate and bullets come whizzing past here. And I looked out and there were like bullet holes on the veranda railings. And I looked at him and I was like, I kind of feel like I should know. I should have known before I come came down here that they're like known pirates, like, on the perimeter of our compound. Like, what the heck? First of all, right, like, what the heck is this? And, like, why wouldn't you tell me this? Why did I not know this?

Podcast Host (19:33)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (19:34)

And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to store that information away, stay away. Stay off the veranda. But, you know, just let it go. Like, I'm already here. What am I going to do now? So we go, like the next day, we have our staff training. Everything goes great. We do a second day of training. And then that night, Paul had turned 60. And so we were having. We had this, like, big dinner and just he and I, to celebrate his birthday. And we stayed up really late because we both like music. And so we were like watching all these concerts and stuff. And we drank, like, way too much wine. And I went to bed and I didn't sleep at all. I just had nightmares all night long. Like. And I'm not a person who like, dreams prolifically, but these were very clear. And I. I remember them to this day. My door was being. In my dream, my door was being pounded down, and I knew that it was pirates who had scaled the walls of the compound and they were coming to take us. And I woke up, like, with a start. You know, in. In Muslim countries, the call of prayer wake you up at daybreak. So it was like 5:30 in the morning, and I can hear the call of prayer and I'm like sweating and I'm thinking, like, what the heck was that? Like, what was that about? And I go into the bathroom and I distinctly remember looking at myself in the mirror saying out loud to myself, jess, do you want to do this? And all I could think was like, am I going to go down there and say to Paul, I'm not going. I'm not leaving the compound because I had these nightmares that were going to be kidnapped by pirates? Because that's ridiculous.

Podcast Host (21:22)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (21:23)

Like, I can't go down there and say that. What Am I going to say, like, everybody's waiting for me, everything's been arranged. Like, what is wrong with. Like, that's what I kept thinking, like, what's wrong with me? Like, why can't you get over this? Right?

Podcast Host (21:35)

Because you have this feeling inside. But speaking it out, you're like, they are not gonna, they're gonna say I'm.

Jessica Buchanan (21:39)

Not stupid, like I'm crazy. What is going on with me? And so I just ignore it again. And I get ready, put my headscarf on, and I walk out that door of my bedroom and I literally walked into a different life. We get across the green line, which I'm like, so relieved because we had, we had to go in a convoy of vehicles that were. We had armed guards. But I knew from trainings that I taken that you're most vulnerable when you're in transit. So we had gotten across the green line and gotten into a separate convoy of vehicles that were going to take us to the south office without a hitch. So I'm like, okay, seriously, I'm just being paranoid. Go to the south office, we do the training. Everything goes great. I'm hearing some gunshots, but you know, in that part of the world, like you're used to hearing gunshots, so nothing to worry about. We have lunch. I remember, you know, like, not really eating much because I wasn't really into like goat and rice at the time. So I was like, I'll eat when I get back to the guest house. And it's around 3 o' clock in the afternoon and we're waiting for the convoy of vehicles to pick us up, three Land Cruisers to take us back over the green line so we can. And I'm like, almost home free, right? I'm just like, oh, literally, like, I'm crazy. That was my last day of training. I'm going back to the guest house.

Podcast Host (23:08)

And then you were gonna fly out.

Jessica Buchanan (23:10)

What, the next, the next morning? Okay, at like 6:00am I'm gonna go back to the guest house, I'm gonna work out, I'm going to have dinner, I'm going to have an early night and then I'm. I'm headed back to her geyser. I think we had a vacation planned, like the next couple of weeks. I'm thinking about that. You know, I'm just like, not really even like thinking too much about it other than like you were just being so paranoid. Like, what is your deal? You know, I'll examine that with my therapist later or something, you know, is what I'm thinking. And so there's. We have a Somali guy, his name's Abdul Razak, who's the security advisor for that, for Galka. And so. Which is standard. You always have, like, a local security advisor because they're, you know, they know what's going on in town, and they. They're supposed to have information, and their whole point is to keep the staff safe. So he's the one organizing the transport, and he's saying, okay, it's time to go. Wait. No, it's not. They're not ready. And we're kind of like going back and forth. Oh, are we ready? Are we not? This goes on for like a half an hour, and it's getting annoying, right? Finally, the Land Cruisers come in. There are armed guards in the front vehicle, armed guards in the third vehicle. And then Paul and I are supposed to get in to the middle, which we do, and Abdul gets in next to me, and we. The convoy moves through the gates, out into. Onto the street, and it starts moving through Gal Caio. And it's, you know, it's not like a. Not a village, but it's not really a city either. It's like a. It's a town. But the. The streets are, you know, pretty. Pretty crowded. You've got people walking around. You've got goats, dogs running around, kids running around, that kind of thing. So you're not moving very quickly. And then maybe, you know, I'm on my phone. I think I sent my husband a text message. He was in another part of the country doing a training for his. His organization. And I'm. Yeah, I'm thinking about what I'm gonna have for dinner. Just like normal things that you think about when you get off work, right? And then suddenly a vehicle like a Land Cruiser comes up on the right side of us and cuts us off, so we can't proceed. And it had been raining. Hi. And splashes mud up all over the windows and the windshield. And so we can't see outside of the car anymore. And I'm like. I remember looking up from my phone and saying to the car, paul's in the front. He's on the left, which is where the passenger side is, because the steering wheel is on the right side there. And I say, what a jerk who drives like that, you know? And the driver's kind of like, looking around, and I'm not really noticing anything because all of a sudden I hear the crack of the butt of an AK47 on the car hood, and it's. We're being surrounded. And There like, sounds like very. A lot of angry men surrounding the vehicle. And it sounds like they're coming closer and closer. And then Abdul Razak, who's sitting on my right side, the security advisor, he's kind of looking around and then his door is pulled open and there's a very angry man dressed in a police uniform with an 1847 standing there. And he's screaming at him in Somali. And I'm not really sure, you know, what he's saying other. And I just remember him pulling Abdurizak out. He had his seatbelt on. And I. I don't know why I remember this, but he pulls him out of the seat belt, which I've never seen anybody do before, and slams him onto the ground and hits him in the head with the butt. His. His. His ak. And I feel really sorry for him. Cause I think, oh, my God, that must really hurt. And. And then he climbs into the. Where Abdi Razak was sitting, and he puts the. The. The tip of his AK to my head. And then he starts screaming at the driver to drive. And he's just screaming in English over and over again. Drive, drive, drive, drive, drive, drive. And. And it. He just takes off through. Through the city, through the. Through the town. And I mean, he's driving so fast in. These roads are not. They're not smooth, they're. They're rocky, they're. They're unstable. But he's like up on two wheels and he's slamming back down and he's up on two wheels, and at one point, it feels like the whole vehicle is going to flip. And Paul's in the. The. The front. He's in the passenger side and he's begging the driver, slow down. Like, slow down. You're going to kill us. Where you're going to flip this car over. We're screaming in English and the driver's just crazed. He's like. It's like he's on drugs or something. And. And he just picks up the pace. I don't know. We must be going like 80, 90 miles an hour. And we're heading out of the city. And now we're like out in the desert on the outskirts of the city. And we're not even on real roads. We're just on like camel tracks, which are like. If you've ever been, like, on horseback riding, like a horse trail, that's like, what we're driving on. And it just. We're hitting rocks and. And going so fast. And I'm just thinking, like, I. I don't I don't know what this is. Like, I don't know what's happening right now.

Podcast Host (28:16)

Now, the driver, was that still the original driver that you guys had? Was he in on it with these people?

Jessica Buchanan (28:22)

I would come to find out, yes.

Podcast Host (28:24)

Okay, Got it.

Jessica Buchanan (28:24)

Yeah. Like, information will unfold as time goes on, but at this point, I have no right clue what is happening. I'm thinking, I'm hoping maybe we're being carjacked because carjackings happen in that part of the world. I'm. I've never been a part of one, but I hear about them all the time. Right. The car will get taken over. They'll. In the city. Like, in Nairobi, they'll drive you to an ATM so that you can empty out your. Your cash, or they'll take your purse and everything, and maybe they'll take your car and then kick you out and you have to go figure out you have to walk back to town or whatever. So that's like, what I'm thinking is like, oh, God, please. I'm, like, praying, like, please let us just be, like, be getting carjacked, you know, and then I. I just have, like, two. It's like my mind is stuck on a loop, and it's just like, thinking two things that are super basic and don't really make much sense other than, like, all I keep thinking is, like, this is bad, bad, this is bad. This is bad. This is so bad. This is so bad. Like, I can't think. Like, I don't have any. I don't have any frame of reference for what's happening. I don't have any information to reach for. Like, you know, if you're in a. Your house catches on fire, hopefully you know that you need to drop to the ground. Right. Like, you. There are procedures or things that you know to do. Right. That will help keep you safe. And I don't know. I don't have any procedures.

Podcast Host (29:57)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (29:58)

Or anything to reach for any information that's going to help me stay safe and alive in this situation, because I don't know what the situation is, first of all. And secondly, this is so far outside of the realm of, like, my reality and possibility that I just. I don't know what to do. And then the second thing I keep thinking is, like, this is. This is going to change my life forever. Whatever this is, whatever happens, however it turns out, like, even if they just stopped and let us walk back to town, like, something fundamentally has shifted in the way I am going to experience the world as this person in this body. And. And so I'm thinking, like. Like, I struggled with anxiety anyway. And so I'm thinking, oh, I'm gonna have a panic attack right here, right now. I think I'm just gonna have a panic attack in the back of this car because I don't know what's happening. I don't know who these guys are.

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Jessica Buchanan (31:49)

There's also. I don't. He must have climbed in the back of the vehicle, like, when the car was taken over. But in my memory, there's this very strange little man in the back, and he's going through my stuff. Like, I had my work bag, like, a pretty big work bag in the back, and it had, like, my wallet and my work computer and materials. And he's, like, going through everything and throwing it around. And it was like, if I had, like, music to describe what was happening, it's like that circus music. You know what I mean? Like, something crazy is happening here. And this guy is, like, laughing and his teeth are all rotten out, and he's, like, throwing things around, and he's going through all my personal stuff. It was so weird. It was so weird that sometimes I'm like, did I make that up? Like, did I imagine that? I didn't. He was actually there, but it was just. Just super strange. And so, you know, we drive for hours into deep, into the desert places I've never been. And we stop so many times. Sometimes we have to get into a separate set of vehicles. Other times they split Paul and I up. At one point, I remember him turning around and looking at me, I think probably to check on me. And I just, like, whisper to him, what is. What's happening right now? And I'll never forget that he just looked at Me with so much pity because I hadn't really quite figured out what was happening yet. And he just said simply, we're being kidnapped. And then I, I thought, oh my God, like I'm gonna have a panic attack right here. I'm gonna start hyperventilating. Like, what, what? Like what the hell is this? And we, I mean we just kept it just like we would drive for a while and then we would stop and different people would get in. They, you know, it was like just all this commotion and all this chaos constantly. At one point we are driving and it's gotten really dark by now and I can hear this high pitched voice behind my head. I'm sitting in the, you know, the back, which is like a bench seat and then there's the cargo part. And I think, oh my God, this is so weird. There's a woman involved. Like that would be very strange. Um, and finally my curiosity gets the best of me. I just have to know where this voice is coming from. And I turn around and it's a small child and he is wearing like a chains of ammunition and he's holding an AK47 and it's like bigger than he is and he looks like he's about 9 years old. I mean he's tiny. And I would later come to find out his name was Abdullahi. He was 12. He was just really small for his age. He was learning the family business of kidnapping and ransom and he'd already killed three people. I would later be like terrorized by him constantly because he was like drunk with power over this like, you know, this lady. And we, we came up with nicknames for, for everyone so we could talk about them. And they didn't, they wouldn't hear us. But we called him Crack Baby because he was just like two black holes for eyes. Like so traumatized, right? Like not even a chance to have any kind of life, right? And that, that scared me and made me feel really, it made me feel a lot of despair because like, how, how is, like how is that possible, right? How can that be the reality for kids and truly is all over the world? Yeah. So we drove for hours and we stopped eventually. It's the middle of the night. I don't know where we are. I don't know what they're gonna do with us. By now there's a man with a turban on his head and he has a machine gun and it's so big it doesn't fit in the vehicle anymore. So he's hanging out the window of The Land Cruiser with this machine gun. And we stop and he pushes me out of the car and he starts screaming at me to walk. And I think it's just like, like, just terror and this like primal survival instinct or something comes over, comes over me and I, I refuse. I'm like, no, no, I'm not walking out there because I'm like looking out at this darkness, right? And I'm thinking, they're going to take me out here and they're going to gang rape me and they're going to kill me. And we get into the kind of an altercation where he keeps screaming at me to walk and I keep refusing, um, because I'm, I think I'm kind of thinking like, if you're going to shoot me, you can just do it right here. Um, Paul comes around the corner of the vehicle and he takes my hand and he just says, jessica, you know, we have to walk. Like we don't have a choice. And so we do, we start walking into the desert and it's so dark. There's no, like, there's no stars. Like I. There's no ambient light from a town or anything. It's just pitch black. Can't see, like tripping over rocks and getting stuck in thorn bushes, falling, you know, and. And I'm trying to prepare myself for what lies ahead. I think in that moment, it is the most terrifying moment of my life so far. I can't really prepare myself because I don't know what is going to happen to me, but I feel pretty confident it's not going to be good. I'm. I'm scared that I'm going to die. I'm saying goodbye basically to Eric. I'm saying goodbye to my dad. I'm like, also having these thoughts of like, you know, I mean, it's so, like, so short sighted, I guess, but also like, what did I do to deserve this? Like, what did I, what did I do so wrong for this to be the outcome? Like, this to be the end of my life? How did I get it so wrong? My mom, again, I like, reach, like, I think emotionally and mentally and spiritually reach out to her because I am very sure that I'm going to die. And so I'm thinking, I'm ask, you know, I'm asking for help, like, please, somehow, I don't know how I'm phrasing it, but like, receive me. Please help me. Be with me. I'm so scared in this moment. Um, and we, I don't know how long we walk. It's 20 minutes, maybe 30 minutes. I don't know if it's, like, a very long time, but it could have been five. Who knows? Um, and. And as we're walking, we're being surrounded by more and more men. They're just, like, coming out of the shadows. They're wearing chains of. You know, they. They're just covered in ammunition. It's like they're a militia. Like, they're going to war. So many weapons. And I'm used to being around weapons, but I've never seen this many. And it does not seem like it's going to be survivable. Yeah. And then they order us to stop and get down on our knees. And I don't know why, but all I keep thinking is, like, I'm 31, and I wish I hadn't put off having kids. Like, I wish I'd had the chance to experience motherhood. And this. Like, I'm gonna die out here essentially alone. And then one of them just says, sleep. And I'm. I'm. You know, like, I'm, like, I'm on my knees. I'm waiting for whatever's gonna happen. Like, you know, like, I think everybody. Maybe not. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm, like, totally gruesome. Like, you all. All. Everybody kind of wonders how they're gonna die, right? And you're, like, in this moment where you're like, oh, this is gonna. This is how it's gonna happen. Is it gonna hurt? Like, how long is it gonna last? Like, I'm. I'm trying to process, and then all of a sudden, someone says sleep. And I'm thinking, I don't. I don't really know. My brain can't comprehend that.

Podcast Host (40:38)

I don't think our brains are meant to comprehend any of trauma.

Jessica Buchanan (40:42)

Yes.

Podcast Host (40:43)

The whole thing.

Jessica Buchanan (40:43)

100 of it. Yeah. And so to go from basically a mock execution, right? To sleep. And I'm shaking my head, thinking, I didn't hear that. Right. I must be hallucinating. Right? Or maybe I'm already dead. Right? And he says it again and kind of like pushes me down into the ground. And it's really interesting. I. I still find this so fascinating that our bodies are so intelligent and so just meant they. They just want to protect us. Right. And so my mind was on such overload in that moment that my body took over and it. I passed out.

Podcast Host (41:32)

I was gonna say that doesn't surprise me because I feel like you're. You were exhausted. All of that, like, mental and physical. That's it makes sense. It's like, because fear, it's. That's like. It's so far past just being scared.

Jessica Buchanan (41:45)

Yes.

Podcast Host (41:45)

Like, that is such a. I've never.

Jessica Buchanan (41:47)

Had another experience like that, thank God, where I've had my body respond in a way where it just completely 100 took over in a way to take care of me. I mean, I think illness is, you know, like, if you get a fever, you know what I mean? We know that that's our body's way of trying to take care of us. Right. But this was so. It was so primal.

Podcast Host (42:14)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (42:15)

And so I passed out and I woke up a couple hours later, probably, and it was starting to get light out. And the realization of, oh, my God, that was not just a horrific nightmare, this actually happened met me as I'm opening my eyes and looking around and seeing, like, I'm laying in the dirt, I'm surrounded by armed men. I'm out in the middle of the desert. I am a hostage. Then I'm like, oh, okay. How? Like, I have. I have no idea what to do with this. How. What. Like, what is this? What do they want? You know, I still. I don't know who they are. Are they Al Shabaab, which is an Islamic terrorist extremist group? If that's the case, then most likely they took us for ideological reasons. And then, you know, it's like being taken by isis. Like, there's. You're not going to survive that. Yeah. Or do they just want money? Like, what. What do they want? And so that first day in. In captivity was. Is surreal in the sense that, you know, they're just so many. So many armed men. I mean, probably 30 to 50, like, milling around. At one point, it was the rainy season, which means maybe it'll rain for like 15 minutes or something. And there was this deluge, like this downpour in the afternoon. And we had been given a mat. Like, it's. It's like a plastic mat, essentially, to. To sit on, to lay on. And we had wrapped ourselves up in the mat to try to keep ourselves from getting too wet, but it didn't really work. We were drenched. But all I remember is once the rain stopped and rolling the mat and then coming, like, literally face to face with the barrel of a machine gun that was being. Was trained on my head because there was some guy sitting there, and he was not happy for some reason that we had tried to protect ourselves from the ra. And so, you know, they're trying to establish, like, authority and control of your mind, of Your body, all of it. And, and so the treatment at the very beginning was just pretty rough. It was a lot of screaming at us, a lot of waving weapons in our face, a lot of threatening to, to shoot us right there. We would ask to, you know, to talk to our organization, like, you know, we need to make contact. We need to call a family member, like, surely. And it was probably two weeks before we were able to make any contact with any, anybody from our organization. But before then, we realized we were trying to figure out, like, who's the leader of this group. We, we moved from that particular camp. We didn't, you know, we figured they were going to take us to a house or to a compound or something, right? Shove us in a hole. We didn't know. But as it would turn out, they, they didn't have anywhere to take us, so their plan was to keep us outside for the entire, the entire experience. And so, you know, I, I maybe like a week or 10 days into it, we finally were able to establish some sort of, like, conversation with the guy who is, what must have been like, the leader at the time, his name was Abdi, or that's what he called himself. And we asked him point blank, I asked him, are you going to kill us? And he said, no, no, no, no, no. We just want money. We just want money. And that brought so much relief until I found out that they, their ransom demand was $45 million. And I'm thinking, like, there's no way.

Podcast Host (46:12)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (46:12)

Are you on crack? Like, yes, actually they were. But $45 million is like, how do you even know what $45 million is? Like, I can't even, and I can't even establish what that would be, how much that would be. Um, and, you know, at the time, I think it's important to understand that there were, there was a whole, there was a whole what, how do I want to say it? Like, a whole rash of kidnappings or like ship takeovers that were happening. So piracy in the Indian Ocean was a thing. Okay, so it started out, and I'm no authority on this, but it basically started out as a way of taking back territory in the Indian Ocean because, and, you know, people in Somalia have very little means of, of making money. You know, this, this is a country where people live on less than a dollar a day. Fishing was, for some regions, a big part of how they sustained their lives. And the waters were being overfished by commercial ships and commercial fishermen. So that's essentially how the whole piracy thing started.

Podcast Host (47:19)

Okay.

Jessica Buchanan (47:20)

And so they took over, you know, yachts. They killed an American couple. And they. I'm talking about, like, pirates in general. Right? Like, not the group that held me. I don't know. But then if you're familiar with Captain Phillips, that movie, I don't know, is like, 10 years ago, probably, they took over the Maersk Alabama, which was a big container ship. An American captain who was. Was held hostage in his crew for four days, and then Seal Team 6 came in and rescued them. So this was like, right around those times. And because the American military was making. The Special forces were making their presence known, and Captain Phillips had been rescued, and there were a lot of casualties happening on water. Then piracy was starting to move onto land. And so they were like two weeks probably before I was taken. Two Spanish girls were taken out of Dadaab, which I is the largest refugee camp in the world, or at the time it was. So what they were doing is they were. Yeah, it wasn't safe for them to be on water anymore, so they were moving on to land and kidnapping people on land. And essentially that's what was happening to me and Paul. And they were purely doing it for money. But what they didn't understand, they didn't seem to understand is that we were not a container ship with millions of dollars worth of cargo and a whole crew. We were just two aid workers that. But at the time, I felt like no one really knew about us, nor. Nor did anyone care outside of our family. So the fact that you're gonna ask $45 million for us is like, you're crazy. Like, we're gonna all sit here and rot, because that's never gonna happen.

Podcast Host (48:59)

Were they feeding you guys?

Jessica Buchanan (49:01)

So, like, that first. The first couple of days, all I had was, like, a small package of cookies. Okay. And then eventually they started bringing us miniature tins of tuna fish. And so that was where my MacGyver skills kicked in. And I had this small powder bag that they let me take with me that had a few essentials in it. And it was. That's the real. That went mega viral is I talked about how I. I did. I ate tuna fish with a tampon applicator for, like, several weeks. It was a clean tampon. I hadn't used it, but I, I. Eating tuna with your hands out of a miniature can is really hard. And then your hands are dirty and disgusting. Anyway, so I thought, oh, let this tampon applicator. Like, yeah, like a little. You can suck tuna fish out of it. It was weird, but it worked. And I needed to eat something. Um, and then eventually we started getting cans of pineapple, and we could eat that, like, at night. So I was eating maybe 400 calories most days, which is. Is crazy low. I mean, it's. It's something. So I have to give them that. But I lost 45 pounds throughout the course of the captivity. Um, and this was a while ago, you know, and I'm almost 6ft tall, so 45 pounds was pretty substantial. So it, you know, you're hungry, and then your stomach starts shrinking. And then. Then we're plagued with GI issues because sometimes they would boil up like a big pot of. Of just plain spaghetti, and everybody would eat out of it. And I'll be honest, like, they're not eating much more than I am. It's not like they're sitting there eating more than I am. I think essentially we were living, like, a very basic Somali life, like sleeping out on the ground, being out in the elements. You know, one of them even said that to me one time because I was mad about something. I think I wanted toilet paper or something. And. And they were like, you know, stop your whining. Shut up.

Podcast Host (51:10)

Up.

Jessica Buchanan (51:11)

You're, you know, just take a nap and. And relax until you get out of here. You're basically living a normal Somali life. And I was just like, well, not exactly, but also, I get your point. I kept waiting for them to take us somewhere, like to a house or something. And it just became increasingly more apparent that we were going to be outside the whole time. And so, like, that was rough. You know, it's cold at night, it's windy, it does rain. There was nowhere to go. There was no escape. We're just subjected to the elements, to the sun. Your skin is cracking, it's bleeding, you're blistered, you're sunburned. My eyes were swelling shut from the dirt. And then, of course, there's the hygiene. As a woman, you know, questions I get often are like, well, what'd you do about your period? Well, I had something. I think I was pregnant, actually, when I got taken. And so I think I had a miscarriage in the first couple of weeks while I was out there. And then that was horrific and painful and really scary. But also I was relieved because I like to be pregnant out there. I couldn't even imagine, like, how complicated that would make the situation. And then I didn't have a menstrual cycle again the entire time I was out there, so that wasn't really an issue. I think between the stress and The. And what was happening to my body and the lack of nutrition. My. My body, I think, again, it was intelligent in. In protecting me. Um, but then things like trying to, you know, go to the bathroom, urinate, you're outside. I mean, I'm an outdoorsy girl, but, you know, after a while, it can get real old real fast. And. And the lack of hygienic conditions, the lack of clean water to wash with. I mean, I. We would get, like. Sometimes you get, like, a bottle of water that had been purchased, and other times they would bring water that they brought in from whatever village we were staying outside of, and it had. They would use the cans for diesel as well. So the water had. Was laced with diesel, and that's what you're trying to wash with. And so probably about 50 days into captivity, I started exhibiting signs of a urinary tract infection. And that is painful and horrific. And so I knew what it was because I get them a lot. And. And I kept asking for medicine. I kept asking for a doctor, but they wouldn't bring me one. They would throw medicine at me, like, they would throw me a box of pills, but I didn't know what they were, and I was afraid to take them. And so, you know, it just, like, kept piling on. I also have a thyroid condition, and so, you know, it was like, a big deal. Like, I need to get medication, like, if you want me to stay alive. Like, I kept trying to reason with them, Right. Like, I need this thyroid medication. If you want me to stay alive and you want to cash me in for the millions of dollars that you think I'm worth, then you need to get someone somehow get this medication to me. But it was, you know, to no avail.

Podcast Host (54:24)

And how long did they have you guys, in total?

Jessica Buchanan (54:26)

93 days.

Podcast Host (54:30)

And that whole time you were outside?

Jessica Buchanan (54:32)

Whole time we were outside? Yeah. The only time I was ever inside something was when we were being transported in the cars, which, you know, felt like a break. Yeah. Even though you're being dragged all over the desert. And, I mean, sometimes we would drive all night. So you're just, like, sitting there, like, trying to, you know, you're, like, nodding off. You don't know where you're going. You don't know why. Are we run from something, or should I be scared? Are you going to sell me to someone else? Are we being. Is. Are we finally being ransomed? Like, I. I never knew what was happening, obviously, and it was. It was just, like, one constant. I don't know what to call it other than to use, like, really crude language. But it was just like, constant mind, you know what I mean? Like, and then that's part of what torture is like, right? It. The Amnesty International used to define that, the word torture as being held against your will without an end, being determined. Yeah. And I can truly attest to me, to me, that is my. My version of torture because, like, I've never been incarcerated, but I can imagine if I compare it to being a hostage. Like, if you know that you're going to be out in 10 years, like, that's a really long time that you can count down. Down, right? And. And you don't know if you're going to be held for two months or two years or 20 years. You don't know if you're going to be. If you're going to survive it.

Podcast Host (56:09)

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Jessica Buchanan (56:40)

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Podcast Host (56:49)

Rumchata.

Jessica Buchanan (56:50)

Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter. Tap or click the banner for more. Drink responsibly. Caribbean rum with real dairy cream, natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaaukee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved. And so, just like this, waking up every morning not knowing what the day holds and what the day is going to bring is horrific in and of itself. And then on the flip side of that, being a hostage is just really boring. Like, when you're not. When you're not being terrorized and tortured, then you're just sitting there for 12 hours with nothing. You know, like, I. I am. I'm not one of those hostages where they brought me notebooks, you know, in a pen. Like, I'm a writer. So if I'd had notebooks and a pen, I probably would have been happy. Like, I could have, you know, recorded the whole experience and what I was thinking, but I literally was, like, sitting there playing Tic Tac toe with myself with little goat poop that was on the ground. Like, building things out of little sticks, like, remembering everything that had ever happened to me in my life and doing life reviews, talking to my dead mother. Like, you know, anything I could do to try to. To stay sane in the most insane circumstances, and that became my job. Like, that was my work. And, you know, I don't know how long I could have held on and done that. 93 days was long enough, but 93 days is really not that long in the scope of being a hostage. There was a man, a German American, taken two weeks before I was rescued, and he was held for, like, 969 days. Because these situations are not simple. They are not easy to negotiate, and it's just impossible. It really feels impossible.

Podcast Host (58:51)

Okay, so his name was Paul.

Jessica Buchanan (58:53)

Right.

Podcast Host (58:54)

So how is he reacting through all of this? Like, was he remaining pretty calm?

Jessica Buchanan (59:01)

Yeah, I would. I would say so. Again, he's like, like, older and wiser. However, on somewhere around day 27, he confesses that actually there was a direct kidnapping threat on the organization. There was some buzz prior to you going, yes. So when I called and said, hey, I don't feel good about this. Can we change. Change the format of this training? I don't want to come down there. And he basically, you know, forcefully recommended that I come down. He had information that I didn't have, and he didn't share it with me. And it turns out that actually the regional security advisor, who gave me permission to go and told me that I was good to go, always ready, and my supervisor, who is based in Nairobi as well, were had been informed about this kidnapping threat, and no one had mentioned it to me. And so I was like, wow, okay, well, I hope you feel better now.

Podcast Host (60:15)

Why even put themselves or you in that situation?

Jessica Buchanan (60:19)

They didn't consider it a viable threat.

Podcast Host (60:22)

Okay.

Jessica Buchanan (60:22)

I'm not sure they thought it was a rumor. Okay. But what I said, you know, when I got out on the other side of this and went to debrief with. With them in a place like Somalia where, you know, I mean, there's no real, like, government system, the infrastructure is very, very shaky. Like, a kidnapping threat is always viable. Like, you can't just. I mean, I think rush under the rock. Yeah, yeah. No, you can't just be like, oh, it's a rumor.

Podcast Host (60:52)

Right?

Jessica Buchanan (60:55)

And, I mean, they had nothing to say. And also, you know, with Paul, like, telling me that, like, a third of the way into the kidnapping experience, I'm like, why bother? Other than he needed to get that off his chest. Right. And so then what am I supposed to do with that? Because you're very quite possibly the last person I'm ever going to talk to in my life. I need you right now to stay sane and. And. And to, you know, protect your. Protect me. In some ways, that. That just felt like a really selfish time to. I mean, the whole thing was selfish.

Podcast Host (61:32)

So were you and him together the whole time?

Jessica Buchanan (61:34)

No, we weren't. We were separated for long periods of time, but then oftentimes we were in the same camp, if you will, but just not allowed to, like, interact with each other. And then other times they'd let us talk to each other for an hour or maybe we could, like, share the map for the night or, you know. But then other times they would come over and pull him up and drag him away and then go fire off rounds of ammo and then come back and say, oh, we shot him, and you're like, okay. Like, they would say that, and they would do that back and forth, or they would say that they sold me to Al Shabaab and I was never coming back. And then they put me in a different camp for a couple of days or whatever. I mean, it was just constantly, like, trying to, like, a mental.

Podcast Host (62:21)

Total gain.

Jessica Buchanan (62:22)

Totally.

Podcast Host (62:22)

Did they ever beat you guys?

Jessica Buchanan (62:27)

I think his treatment was worse than mine. Probably because I'm a woman. I don't. I wouldn't say I got beat up, but there they were. They were not nice to me, you know.

Podcast Host (62:37)

They were dragging you guys.

Jessica Buchanan (62:38)

Yes, they. I always had this, like, fear that they were going to drag me across the camp by my hair. I don't know why, other than that's just like, something I was afraid of. You know, they knock you down, they'd hit you with a. The. The gun. Like, the, The. The butt of the gun and the shoulder. I did my best to just stay submissive, to look at the ground, to obey orders. You know, I just be as, like, docile and grateful for anything. I. I mean, it was like, very against my personality. Yeah, but, you know, you're trying to stay alive. Right. And there were times when I think Paul would get riled because you're being degraded constantly and. And so you're treated like trash. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Podcast Host (63:25)

Like you're worth nothing.

Jessica Buchanan (63:28)

You're not. You're. You're. It's not that you're worth nothing. It's that you're only a commodity, so your humanity is completely cast aside. It's. I felt like more like an animal you know, at some. There was one point where they just would. Drove us into the center of a village and rolled the windows down, and all the villagers came and stared at us and looked in the windows as if we were like zoo animals. It was so bizarre.

Podcast Host (63:57)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (63:57)

I don't know if maybe they'd never seen, like, a Caucasian person before or what it was, or it was just like, oh, here's the hostages. Right. I think it was kind of like that. And so it was stuff like that, that. That any way that they could make you feel dehumanized. I. I think that that was the tactic.

Podcast Host (64:21)

And then the first. You said, the first form of communication that you had with, I guess, any type of help was how many days?

Jessica Buchanan (64:28)

In, like, 10 days, I think. So something like that.

Podcast Host (64:31)

It was that just like the first discussion of kind of a negotiation.

Jessica Buchanan (64:36)

No, we weren't involved in any of the negotiations. So that was just a proof of life call. So. And we had no idea. Right. Like, we didn't know who we would be talking to. They drove us deep, deep out into the desert in the middle of the night. They put us on a sat phone, a satellite phone. They called a number that they had. I have no idea how they got that number. And then the person who answered the phone. Well, actually, first they had us call. They wanted us to call a family member. So I called my dad because I had his phone number memorized. I didn't have my husband's phone number memorized because he had all these different phone numbers. Members from working in different countries. So I called my dad, and his phone was disconnected. And I thought, okay. And so Paul calls his wife and her phone's disconnected. And then I think I called my sister next because I'd had her number memorized and her phone number was disconnected. And I'm thinking, what the hell? Like, what is going on? Like, why would they have their phones disconnected? Like, aren't, you know, I'm like, don't they know that we're going to be calling? Like, you know, and then. Exactly. And Paul's like, nope, they did this on purpose. This. I bet they did this so that no one can reach family to, you know, because that's going to make everything messy. Because you've got two. You got two people here. Two. Two entities who are also represented by an organization. So when we couldn't get through to family, they said, oh, we have a phone number to call. So they called this number, and there's a guy named Muhammad on the other line. End of the line. That picks up and he says he's the representative for dd, for the organization. And then he proceeds to ask us a list of security questions so that we can like, prove our identity because they want to make sure that we are still alive and that we are. You know, it's a proof of life call. So, you know, the security questions are things like, you know, like when you're logging into your bank information, like what's your mother's maiden name? What are. I have an elephant tattoo on my back, like identifying features and things like that. And so he. And I'm. And I felt very disoriented because I'm like, who's Muhammad? I don't know any Muhammad. It's like, who you know. And then come to understand that we knew our organization had kidnapping and ransom insurance, which was, you know, a source of peace, I guess, in some ways, but also insurance like, you know, like, that's not, that's not gonna go, that's not going to move fast past. And so I would learn later that they had deployed like professional hostage negotiators. And so the person on the other end of the line was someone that they were using as a spokesperson, but they were actually the ones who are negotiating the, the ransom demand and not family, which we're incredibly lucky that our families didn't have to go through something like that because, you know, there's, there aren't a lot of us, but there are some former hostages that I'm friends with. And to hear like, how what their families have gone through, horrific.

Podcast Host (67:35)

I'm sure it's terrifying, right, for the.

Jessica Buchanan (67:38)

For, you know, for your elderly parent to be on the other end of the line and just, even for them.

Podcast Host (67:43)

Not to have an answer like, are they coming home?

Jessica Buchanan (67:46)

Right? War or to be in charge of like negotiating figures. Right? So like the organization countered that 45 million dollar ransom demand at $20,000.

Podcast Host (67:55)

And what happened?

Jessica Buchanan (67:57)

Nothing. A lot of nothing went on.

Podcast Host (68:00)

The negotiations went on from like around day two, 10 till when you, when they released you.

Jessica Buchanan (68:05)

Right.

Podcast Host (68:05)

And what did they settle at?

Jessica Buchanan (68:07)

Well, they didn't release us.

Podcast Host (68:08)

Okay.

Jessica Buchanan (68:09)

So they didn't settle. I believe the negotiations had gone down to about 4 million is where they were at. When January 25th rolled around. We'd had six proof of life calls at that point and had to record a proof of life video, which was totally bizarre to, to, to like stand in front of a video camera. You know, like, you see these things on TV and you're like, how can this actually be happening to me? Like how is this my life? Right? So weird. And to think that maybe that's the last time your family's gonna see you alive. Like, slashed up all over the TV and, you know, you being ordered to relay a message that you don't want to. To relay. And. And so I. So, like, fast forward to, like, day maybe January 16, 10 days before I get out, we have our last proof of life call. I didn't know it was our last one, but I had gotten really sick. I had a. That UTI was moving into a kidney infection, and I knew it was because I'd had one the year before, and I had been hospitalized for a week. And so I knew what was happening to my body, and I knew that if I didn't get, like, medication, I needed an iv. I needed to be, like, in a hospital setting within the next two weeks. I was most likely gonna die of sepsis while I was out there. And so I said to the family communicator, and I'm. I'm, like, a direct person, but I'm not confrontational. And so I. But I was like, I mean, you know, I'm desperate. And I just remember saying to her, because Muhammad had disappeared, and now we had a new family, a communicator named Alex. And I said to her, like, if you guys don't get me out of here and do something now, I'm gonna die out here, and it's gonna be all your fault. This. This will have happened because of you guys. And so they take the phone away from me. I go back to camp. Ten days goes on. I'm becoming increasingly weaker. I'm. I'm, like, really struggling. I can hardly walk at this point. I have a fever. I'm in a lot of pain. I. And I go to bed that night. This is January 25th, going into the 24th, going into the 25th of 2012, and going to bed. I use that term loosely. Like, I laid out on my mat in the middle of a field. You know, I have one blanket. I wrap myself up on my. On my blanket, in my blanket. And there's the pirate on my left. There are nine guys on the ground that night, and Paul is on the other side of the camp because we weren't allowed to talk to each other for whatever reason for that period of time. And I wake. I go to sleep around 6 because the sun goes down at 6. You know, who knows what time I don't have? It's not like I have a watch or anything. And I wake up a couple hours later with the need to be sick. And so I kind of, like, pull myself up off my mat and say the word toilet, because that's how we asked for permission to leave the mat. That was the only word that they understood, I guess. And the only time I was allowed to leave them at was to go to the toilet, which is just go use a bush. And the. Everybody was completely passed out. Like, some of them are snoring, like, they're completely passed out. Which was weird because there was always one who was, like, keeping watch over the camp at night. And they would rotate and they would take shifts, but they were all passed out. And I remember thinking, like, oh, if. If ever there was a night night to try to escape, it would be now, right? But I'm too weak. I have no idea where I'm at. There's no way I'm gonna try to escape now. And no one wakes up. And I'm afraid that they're gonna wake up and find me gone. And then, like, I was always afraid that I was gonna be punished, right? And so I didn't want them to think that I tried to escape. So I had this small, like, little pen light, like, flashlight that they'd given me. So I started flashing it, and I go to the nearest bush. I do what I need to do. I come back to my mat, and I wrap myself up. Up in. In my blanket. And then, like, literally 30 seconds goes by, and the pirate who's, like, sleeping on my left, he wakes up, and I can't see him. It's really dark. Um, but I can tell, like, you know how you can feel? Somebody's, like, terrified or they're scared. I can feel something's going on. And he's standing up and holding his weapon, and he's whisper screaming at all the other guys around the camp. Like, basically in Somali, wake up, wake up, wake up. And then, like, all of a sudden, the night just erupts into automatic gunfire. And, like, there are bullets whizzing over my head, and I'm thinking, oh, my God, like, I'm really not gonna survive. Like, I. I'm gonna die tonight. Once again, I'm back in a place where I. I think I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be shot. Maybe it's gonna be execution style. Maybe I'm just gonna get caught in the crossfire. Maybe this is another group that has come to take us because that was always a threat. Like, we have to, you know, they needed to stay vigilant because there could be other pirate groups who wanted, you know, whatever. And so I'm just thinking, like, I think kind of like this attitude of like, God damn it. I've, like, worked so hard to survive to this point, and I'm so sick. And, you know, it's like, better the devil, you know? And I'm just not. I'm not gonna survive. I'm not gonna make it through this. And I'm hearing just, like, the most horrific sounds. Like these guys are shooting their guns, they're getting hit. I'm seeing, like, bullets. I can see, like, flashes of light. And I put a blanket over my face. I'm trying to make myself as invisible as possible, right? I'm trying to hide. I'm trying to get low, low, low, stay low to the ground. I don't want to get up because I don't want to get shut. I don't wanna try to take off running or anything. I'm just gonna stay here. And hopefully they don't find me, which is, like, not a great plan. But suddenly somebody. I feel hands on my ankles and on my shoulders, and somebody's trying to pull the blanket away from me. And I have my hands in front of me, and I'm trying to protect myself. I'm trying to hide behind my hands like this. And I'm just like. Like, oh, God. Like, all I can say over and over again is, oh, God. Oh, God, Oh, God, oh, God. I'm just. I don't know if I'm praying. I don't know what I'm. I'm doing, but I'm just like, I'm. I'm so terrified. And I don't. I can't see anybody, but I hear there's somebody here on my right side. And it's like a young. It's a young man. Ish. And. And he has an American accent, and he knows my name. And he says, jessica, it's okay. Hey, we're the American military. You're safe now. We're going to take you home. And I can't, like, really compute. Like, I'm just, like, overtaken by shock. And I start shaking, and I'm just, like, convulsing. I'm shaking so much. And all I can say over and over again is, wait a second. You're American. You're American. Like, I don't understand. You're American. And he says, like, I can. I. We've been watching you for a very long time. We know how sick you've been. And I can't, like, you know, like, my mind is just like, all over the place, and I can't make it make sense. And. And he has medicine. He has antibiotics, and he has, like, a clean bottle of water, and he gives them to me. He's like, I think, like, here's the medication that you need. And I just, like, starting to look around, and then I'm seeing, like, I am surrounded by soldiers, and I'm thinking, oh, my God, like, what is this? Like, what. Like, what is happening right now? And there's another soldier who's like, standing at my feet, and he says, do you know where your shoes are? And I can't. I have no. Like, I have no idea. Like, I. No awareness of anything. And. Because, like, walking through the desert in the dark is like, you can't do that with no shoes on. And I'm super sick, so it's hard for me to walk anyway. But he's like, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pick you up, I'm going to put you over my shoulder, and I'm just going to carry you out. And I'm like, okay. So he does just that. And I just remember having this very, like, clear thought of as he's, like, running across the desert with. With me over his shoulder, thinking, like, I'm a school teacher from Ohio. How is this my life right now? Like, how can this be?

Podcast Host (76:55)

Like, how did I get.

Jessica Buchanan (76:55)

Like, how did I get here? And am I alive? Like, I don't. Or am. Is this one of those things where I'm dreaming it, or did I die this whole time? Yeah. Have I been. Like, it is such a weird alternate reality. I don't know. I don't know what's real and what's not until he puts me on the edge of Camp Pump, and I can. There's, like, lights around, and I'm starting to kind of, like, you know, place things and. And my first question is, where's Paul? Is he safe? Did he make it out? Or, you know, did he get shot? Like, and he's sitting there and. And. And he. He leans over to me and he says, do you know who these guys are? And I'm like, no, they. I. I don't. I don't know what's happening. And he says, this is Seal Team 6. These are the guys that got Osama bin Laden last year. And I'm just like, like what? Like, I don't understand how. Like, I can't. I can't compute it. I can't figure out, like, how did they know where Like, I don't understand any of this. I have no military background. I, I have no, no frame of reference for any of this. And it wouldn't really be until like, like the hell the helos came in and, and like, lifted off until we were like, probably 5, 10,000ft up in the air that I was like, did I actually survive this? Am I alive? Did I make the, make it out alive? And then the, the helicopters took us to Galka airstrip, to their airport and put us on a plane. And it was explained that they were going to take us to Djibouti to a neighboring country, to a military base where we would receive medical care because they had a hospital facility there. And I think it wasn't until we like, landed in Djibouti and we were escorted off the plane. I just remember getting in a minivan and sitting next to Paul and the sun had come up. We'd been up all night. Night. We just been through this extraordinarily strange rescue. And I started to cry, not weep, just silently, tears streaming down my face. And I looked at Paul and I said, we made it. I, I, we, we lived. And then it would become like, just in many ways an extraordinary experience, but in many ways a very difficult, hard experience in the aftermath. Oh, yeah. Of all of that.

Podcast Host (79:46)

Well, I think too, you know, even if you might have had moments that were scarier than others, although that was 93 days. That whole time, your body is living in, like, constant fight or flight.

Jessica Buchanan (79:59)

Absolutely.

Podcast Host (80:00)

You are in constant survival mode. So I'm sure the comedown of that, on top of all the trauma, all the fear, all the nightmares or whatever else, you know, compiled.

Jessica Buchanan (80:09)

Right. The deprivation. Right. Sleep deprivation, just the exposure to the elements. Yeah. I mean, it would take me, it would, it took me a decade, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I was right that in those first moments of the actual abduction, it did, it changed everything about my life. It changed me on a cellular level. Like, I mean, I'm not a scientist, so I can't prove that it changed my DNA, but it felt like certainly changed the trajectory of my life. 100 fundamentally.

Podcast Host (80:43)

Question, do you or did they tell you or do you know how when they came to rescue you and were able to take you back to a safe area, how far that was, like, how long or far they had to drive?

Jessica Buchanan (80:58)

Say that again, like, where you were.

Podcast Host (81:00)

Right before the rescue happened, how when they put you in the van to take you back, how long was it to safety? Like, how long of a drive?

Jessica Buchanan (81:11)

So they put us in a helicopter first, got it, lifted us out of the desert, took us to Galka. We were in a. Outside of a town called Edado.

Podcast Host (81:22)

So they.

Jessica Buchanan (81:22)

I'd fly you out of there. They were like, okay. On a medical helicopter where we received, like.

Podcast Host (81:30)

Like, how did they find where you guys were?

Jessica Buchanan (81:32)

Well, I mean, this is so far above my, like, pay grade that I don't understand. But they had. They had sights on us the whole time. I think. My understanding is that maybe they lost us for about a week. Okay? But, you know, technology, I think drones, okay. There are lots of ways that they do things. You know, the other thing that I think is interesting, you know, Paul would be. He, like, in those moments where you're really frustrated, right? And he'd be like, send in the Marines. And I would. I would just. That would, like, piss me off. I hated. I hated it when he said something like that, first of all, because I felt like the whole thing was his fault. And why should the American military come in and rescue him, right? So unbeknownst to me. But I would also be like, you know, Paul, like, you're Danish. There are 5 million people in your country. Like, I'm American. There are 380 million people in my country. Like, America has much bigger fish to fry and bigger concerns, right? They don't care about two aid workers who are here who got into trouble because their organization sent them into a dodgy place. And we were just following orders, which is like a really Debbie Downer way of looking at things. But, you know, times were tough, and I was wrong. You know, actually, what is extraordinary. And, you know, I don't talk about politics or anything in this format, but I will say what is extraordinary about belonging to a country like America is that I, in that point in time, I did matter. And the president at the time was Barack Obama, and he was being briefed on a daily basis about the American hostage that was being held in Somalia. And if anything, that is, like, such an extraordinary concept to try to. I don't know, to try to grapple with and to try to understand really, is that we all do matter. And however you want to look at it existentially, for me, it didn't matter. Nothing mattered other than, you know, bringing me home alive as an American citizen. And that has been reiterated to me time and time again, this is what we train for, or this is what we're waiting for. It was our greatest honor and duty to. Because I felt so guilty for so long. You know, like, what if something you know, what if one of the seals had been shot? What if they had died? They have families at home. Like, you know, I felt so responsible for so long, and it has always been message to me. Like, no, you were doing your job, and so were they, and so are they. And it was a team effort.

Podcast Host (84:34)

Kill all of those guys.

Jessica Buchanan (84:36)

All nine of them died. Side.

Podcast Host (84:37)

Wow.

Jessica Buchanan (84:38)

Yeah. And that's, That's. That's a hard thing for me to contemplate. Not. I don't have, like, Stockholm syndrome, but I mean, I'm there. I was there to be. I was there to be a humanitarian aid worker. And I think that things get gray really fast. Things just aren't black and white. And, you know, and that's.

Podcast Host (84:59)

Right. And I, I think that shows your character, though, because it shows that.

Jessica Buchanan (85:04)

And.

Podcast Host (85:04)

And that's the thing is you worked over in places like that for so long that it's even just seeing that child, how early they're born into it. Obviously it's horrific what's being done to other people, but it's almost like they're born into this. Like, that is their life. That's what they know. That's kind of their.

Jessica Buchanan (85:23)

Well, and also they're born into poverty. You know, this is why I believe in. I do believe in humanitarian aid and international development. Development that, like, if you don't do. To whom much is given, much is required. If you don't help in some ways to help people build systems and infrastructures and provide education and. And give them opportunities to make a better life, then they're going to resort to crime. Because at the end of the day, we all just want to survive. Like, that's just a fundamental human response. And so for, you know, they would say to me, one of the guys that died that night, I remember him saying to me, we. We called him Cook because he was the one who was like, when there was spaghetti noodles, he would cook the spaghetti noodles. But he would say. He said to me in broken English, my babies are hungry, and that's why you're here. I. My babies need to eat. I would hope that I would have the moral compass not to do something like that and to resort to crime. And I'm not excusing it in any way, but I am saying that I think in a. As much as I can from my place of privilege, and I am incredibly privileged. I understand. And so, like, my forgiveness journey hasn't actually ever been about them. It's been about my organization and it's been about Paul, and it's Been about their lack of duty of care.

Podcast Host (86:57)

A hundred percent.

Jessica Buchanan (86:58)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (86:58)

And that's the thing. It's like. And that makes a lot of sense, though, because, you know, going into these different countries in these situations, it's kind of just a thing that everybody knows there's a risk.

Jessica Buchanan (87:09)

Sure.

Podcast Host (87:09)

You know, so I think that if it happens, it's like, you. How can you blame that when you had that idea? You know, it's not like you're just walking out on the streets outside and someone's doing it to you that, you know, you're part of the same country and, you know, it's a very. Every different circumstance. And I think it is a hundred percent a slap in the face because you had that gut feeling and you put your trust into them and you were going to help them, and that's what the result was. And while, yes, thank God you survived it, you did have to deal with a. Over a decade of healing.

Jessica Buchanan (87:46)

Yep.

Podcast Host (87:46)

And getting through that and trying to. Even trying to just understand it and come down from it, and that is. That changes your life.

Jessica Buchanan (87:54)

Yes.

Podcast Host (87:55)

In every way.

Jessica Buchanan (87:57)

Yes.

Podcast Host (87:57)

You know, and I don't even think, like, there's so much more to the situation than just, oh, this happened to her. She's out alive.

Jessica Buchanan (88:05)

That's it.

Podcast Host (88:06)

It doesn't end there.

Jessica Buchanan (88:07)

No.

Podcast Host (88:08)

And I think, you know, that makes total sense.

Jessica Buchanan (88:12)

Yeah. And I mean, it's. That's why I'm so passionate about talking about this surviving survival journey afterwards. You know, like, it's one thing to survive the trau trauma. Right. And that's extraordinary. And some of our traumas last for years. Some of them last for 20 minutes. Like, you know, but trauma's trauma, but it's the aftermath that is so grueling.

Podcast Host (88:36)

It rewires the brain.

Jessica Buchanan (88:38)

Yes.

Podcast Host (88:38)

It literally does.

Jessica Buchanan (88:39)

It absolutely does. The body keeps the score. Right. And it's day in and day out of choosing to try to move forward when you haven't slept all night because you've had PTSD dreams or you were triggered by a certain smell or food. And I mean, I. You name it. Like, I've, like, hidden in the back of my closet because something triggered me and I had a total outburst. And my husband's just standing there looking. And I've got two little kids, you know, like, I mean, I can't have loud music in the car still because they used to drive us around blaring music in the. In the desert. And so, like, when I had. When my kids were really little and they'd be like, screaming in the back of the car and the music was loud. I would, like, have panic attacks, you know, like, all of that stuff. You don't ever, like, get over it, right? It's so good. So good, so good. Give big, save big with Rack Friday deals at Nordstrom Rack. For a limited time, take an extra 40% off red tag clearance for a total Savings up to 75% off. Save on gifts for everyone on your list, from brands like Vince Cole, Haan, Sam Edelman, and more. All sales final and restrictions apply. The best stuff goes fast, so bring your gift list and your wish list to your nearest Nordstrom rack today.

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Jessica Buchanan (90:08)

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Podcast Host (90:11)

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Jessica Buchanan (90:21)

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Podcast Host (90:33)

It's always that. Even if you get better at dealing with it and handling it, it's always. It puts you right back there.

Jessica Buchanan (90:39)

Totally. I can be back there in a second, right? And someone said to me yesterday, I was having lunch with a friend and another person, and she said. How did she say it? She said, it's a lot to go back and live in that space again. And I'm like, you know what? That's exactly what. What. What PTSD is. It's constantly. And it gets less and less, but it's. It's about this. This. This experience of living in. In that space again against your will, which is particularly triggering to trauma survivors, but especially if you've been held hostage against your will, you know, like, you feel almost like you're being held hostage by your own mind because you're not in control of anything. Right. Again and again and again and again. And I guess the. The. The esoteric kind of message of that is that we're really not in control. But that can get really wonky and messed up, too, as you're trying to, like, move through. Through, you know, your. Your spiritual evolution from all of this. Oh, my God, it's so much work. And I understand why people don't do it, because it's exhausting.

Podcast Host (91:48)

It is. And it takes a lot of commitment day in and day out, you know, And I think that I say this all the time too. It's. It's one of those things that you'll have days where you're like, man, I'm doing good today. Then you could have days where you feel like you are 10 steps backwards, 100%, even now.

Jessica Buchanan (92:04)

And it's been, what, 13 years for me. Right.

Podcast Host (92:07)

So when you got out. So you're. At the time, were you guys married already?

Jessica Buchanan (92:13)

We were. We'd been married for about a year and a half.

Podcast Host (92:15)

And you guys were living where.

Jessica Buchanan (92:17)

So we were based in Hargea, Somalia, Somalil land. But we had an apartment in Nairobi, and Nairobi felt like home. So I don't know how this happened other than just. I mean, obviously I know how it happened, but just a miracle, I find out about a month after the rescue that I'm pregnant. Pregnant. Wow. And I. Against all odds. Like, how is that even possible? I mean, I. Like, my body is so malnourished. I haven't had a menstrual cycle. Like, what?

Podcast Host (92:46)

Yeah. You would think if anything, your body would reject it and be like, not now, lady.

Jessica Buchanan (92:50)

What? Right. And also, I was like, can I not get a break? Yeah, please. I'm sick. Like, I threw up for eight months. And I didn't. Like, I didn't think my body would hold on to the pregnancy. And. And. But it did. And then that threw me into, like, a whole other, like, identity crisis of, like, motherhood in the. In the throes of, like, dealing with trauma and healing and PTSD and postpartum anxiety and depression. It's just, like, so hard.

Podcast Host (93:23)

That can even. I could even see how that would, you know, when you do have kids, how all of that anxiety would trickle down into that. Because then you have the reality set in of, wow, you know, this stuff isn't just in movies. Like, this could happen.

Jessica Buchanan (93:36)

Right. The next thing happens to my kids.

Podcast Host (93:38)

Like, it opens up a whole nother.

Jessica Buchanan (93:40)

Door of just paranoia, phobias, and. Yes, all of it. All of it. And. And so I had my son in Nairobi because that was home. And that was like. I know it sounds weird to people, but, I mean, I lived in Africa for almost 10 years at that point. Like, that was. I knew the medical system. I got my doctors. Like, my friends were there, you know, and when.

Podcast Host (94:00)

What did your husband say when you got back? Like, what was going through his mind when all of this happened?

Jessica Buchanan (94:04)

Oh, my God. He was just. I mean, you're elated, right? Like, to have the person that you love the most in the world come back to you. Because it could have been. It could have been so bad.

Podcast Host (94:17)

And how far In. Did he find out that you had been kidnapped?

Jessica Buchanan (94:20)

Oh, he knew from like the first hour because, I mean, we had staff that were. That witnessed the whole thing. And it turns out to your earlier question, it was an inside job. So Abdul Zach, that security advisor that I was talking about that I felt so sorry for when he got pulled out of the car and hit in the head. Well, he's the one who set it all up.

Podcast Host (94:41)

Wow.

Jessica Buchanan (94:41)

Yeah. He sold us for a hundred thousand dollars that he never got because they never got the ransom. They never got paid because FCL Team 6.

Podcast Host (94:52)

That is wild. So you guys lived there, you had.

Jessica Buchanan (94:56)

Your baby there, and we lived there for about six months. But my anxiety, like I was. It was starting to become like, talk about intrusive thoughts, man. Like, I. I kept thinking, they're gonna find me.

Podcast Host (95:09)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (95:10)

They're gonna come and take my baby. They're gonna kill my baby. They're gonna kidnap my baby. I mean, like, I couldn't sleep. Like, I was. I was starting to become. Become like psychosis, like postpartum psychosis. The medications weren't helping. My therapist wasn't helping. So we decided it's time to go back to the States again. My husband had never lived in the U.S. he's Swedish. Wow.

Podcast Host (95:29)

Okay.

Jessica Buchanan (95:30)

So we made like, we sold everything we had, we left everything we knew together as a couple. I've had this baby, I've got this husband, I've got all this trauma, and I land in D.C. and have to. To then figure out how to rebuild my life. Yeah. Which I think was actually the hardest part of all of us.

Podcast Host (95:48)

I'm sure. And how. So what was the recovering and healing journey for you? Like, I know, I'm sure in the beginning, like you said, it was just a spiral, but at what point do you think that you started to kind of grasp it and be like, okay, now we're on the up. Like, I'm on my healing journey.

Jessica Buchanan (96:09)

I think the first year or two was just a blur. You know, I. Again, a lot of that has to do with motherhood. We also deci. We. We decided to start exploring options. This was a very high profile media event. So when it happened, you know, my dad and my sister were barricaded in their houses by reporters.

Podcast Host (96:31)

Like, they're all in Ohio.

Jessica Buchanan (96:34)

No, they live in Virginia now. Okay. And they lived in Virginia. My sister lived in Pennsylvania when this happened. But yeah, they're, you know, they were just being hounded by and stuff. So it was. It was a big deal, especially because it was publicized that President Obama called my dad personally to let him know that I had survived and I'd been rescued. And so it was, it was big deal in the media. And I, but I didn't want to, you know, I, I, I didn't know anything about this while I was out there. It's kind of like being in a coma. You come back, you don't know if your family members are still alive. Like, you don't know, like, is my grand grandmother's still alive.

Podcast Host (97:10)

Last time you called, all, all the things are disconnected.

Jessica Buchanan (97:13)

Yeah, exactly. I don't know what's. Yeah.

Podcast Host (97:15)

And I think naturally your brain goes to the worst because you're like, if this could happen to me, I can only imagine.

Jessica Buchanan (97:20)

Sure, exactly right. And so I just didn't want to talk about it. Like, you know, I, I talked about it with my family, but I certainly wasn't going to like, talk to Diane Sawyer or whoever else was call. I, no, I'm not, I don't want to do that. And then I woke up about six months later one morning, and I thought, you know, we should probably write off all of this down because we have our son coming. Once he comes and gets here, we're gonna be busy and we're gonna forget about what happened and what we've been through. And so I, I wanna write this down for him. And also, I know that there are thousands of people who helped get me out of here. And it's true, it's not hundreds, it's thousands of people who are involved in getting me out. I'll never be able to say thank you to all of them. So I want to have an account of what happened so that they know my side of the story. Story. So we, you know, we just started kind of like, what's the word? Like, detach from the outcome, I guess, of like, what could happen. But maybe we should see if anybody's interested in this story. Maybe we should write a book or whatever. And so that took on a life of its own, and you end up writing a book. It becomes a New York Times bestseller because of the association with SEAL Team 6. And then there's this book tour. So now I'm like, okay, okay. Thrown into the spotlight. Not necessarily wanting to. Like, this was also before social media was as big as it is now. So, like, I, I'm a teacher. Like, I don't know how to do this. Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not, I don't need to be in the spotlight. I just wanted to write this book so that I had the. The memories, so that my son knows what we all survived and how he came into the world. But it just, like, just kept taking on a life of its own. And. And so I think that. That in some ways really held me back from beginning my healing journey because I was just talking about it all the time, right? And talking and reliving it. And reliving it and reliving it. It. Going back to live in that place, and it was so fresh.

Podcast Host (99:25)

And it's a whole another. It's like, then you go from survival to adrenaline in a way, because it's.

Jessica Buchanan (99:29)

Like you're throwing all the time and then you have, like. Then I had triggers, right? Like, I had these weird coping mechanisms. Like if I would go speak and have. Go tell the story at like, a conference or something, for instance, then I would come back to my hotel room and I would binge eat, because something about that whole being starved, right, Would cause me to, like, that was my coping mechanism. And. And, you know, some. Some like, unhealthy habits definitely ensued. Like, my husband caught me, like, hiding food. You know, I would, like, hide food in the car, like, under the seats and stuff. Like, do weird stuff. You know, that. Because I, like, food was a real big thing because I didn't have it. And so. So had to work through that. Finally landed in. In D.C. you know, found a place to live. Found a therapist who was a godsend. Like, thank God for therapy. Therapists sometimes. I mean, I was in such crisis that I was seeing her twice a week. And she really, really helped me navigate those early years. And I, at one point, I had my daughter. Then two years later, and I was, I think, finally settling into, like, okay, this new phase of my life. I'm in my 30s now. Like, I've got two kids. I think I should go back to teaching. And so I think that was. Was an attempt to hide.

Podcast Host (101:00)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (101:01)

Not heal. So I did go back to teaching, and it was great, and it was awesome. But then inevitably, people will under, like, find out what you've been through. You know, I'd have kids come up and say, like, my mom was at the library and there was a book there, and you're. You're. You're on the COVID And I'd be like, nope, that wasn't me. That, you know, you must be wrong. Like, I don't know who that was. And I. It became. Became clear to me that because this trauma had so fundamentally changed me that I no longer fit into the life and the The. The profession, the roles that I had before. So I needed to figure out what to do now, and that was really hard and really scary. Reinvention takes a lot of work.

Podcast Host (101:50)

You're basically creating a new identity, and.

Jessica Buchanan (101:53)

Not really by choice, necessarily, and not really even getting to choose that identity and what you want it, you know, to be, because it's really weighed down by those past experiences.

Podcast Host (102:08)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (102:09)

And I think the number one thing I would say to anyone who's surviving trauma or is moving into that space of surviving survival is you just have to give it time.

Podcast Host (102:22)

I know. Yep.

Jessica Buchanan (102:23)

And it's like the worst thing.

Podcast Host (102:24)

It is. I know. I was thinking that something along the lines the other day. I was like, whenever somebody's struggling, the worst thing and that you want to hear, the thing to say is time. But time.

Jessica Buchanan (102:35)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (102:36)

Is the only thing. There's nothing you can actually. No.

Jessica Buchanan (102:40)

You know, I mean, therapy helps. Right.

Podcast Host (102:42)

There's how.

Jessica Buchanan (102:42)

There's tools. Sure.

Podcast Host (102:43)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (102:44)

Yeah. And I'm extraordinarily lucky because I had support.

Podcast Host (102:47)

Right.

Jessica Buchanan (102:48)

And I had, you know, resources to go to therapy and. And. And stuff. But, I mean, the only. The only. Not the only. One of the most valuable things I've had, the luxury of giving to myself has been time. Um, and, you know, it's really only been in the last couple of years where I feel like I finally gotten to a place where it came out of nowhere. And it was very, like, you know, I don't know. I guess I figured there would be some fanfare that came with feeling healed or something, but it's very quiet and very insignificant. And I was just at my computer one day at my. At my desk in my office, and somebody had written me an email, and they were expecting. Expressing sympathy that I had been through what I'd been through. And I just wrote. I wasn't really thinking. I just said, thank you. I appreciate that, but it's okay, because I'm at peace now. And I looked at it and I read it again, and I sat back in my chair and I thought, huh, I'm at peace now with everything. Well, how about that? That's interesting. And then I thought, oh, this must be what healing feels like, right? I'm not angry anymore. Like, I used to just seethe with anger at Paul, at the organization, at my life being ripped apart. Like, the worst part about all of it, I think, was that my life changed. Like, I had to leave Africa. I had to leave my work and my job that I felt so called and committed to. Like, I. You Know all of those things I had, whether it was right or not, whether I made a mistake, but like, that is how I define myself and how I, How I, I identified myself. And then to lose all of that was. It was so painful. There was so much grief. And to be, to. To finally be able to step back and say, oh, I don't think I'm grieving anymore. Right. That felt like actually that's what survival felt like to me. Yeah.

Podcast Host (105:02)

Have you, you. So have you talked to Paul at all since.

Jessica Buchanan (105:06)

Yeah, I. We did. We tried to stay in contact. We actually had a mediation, like a mediator come and work with us. And like, it was after my son was born, so it would have been like a year after everything happened. And it just like, I just wanted him to say I'm sorry. I just wanted him to take some responsibility. And he wouldn't and the organization was. Wouldn't. And so I just like, there was nowhere for me to go from there. Right. You know, there's nothing for. There's nothing I can do. And, and, and so like on the anniversary of the kidnapping and the rescue, we would email each other for a while and I was really struggling. And he just like went on and went back to work.

Podcast Host (105:49)

And it's hard too, because one of those, you know, I think we sometimes tell ourselves that and it feels like what would help us heal is getting closer closure. And I think by getting those apologies and having those people take responsibility, it might make you feel better.

Jessica Buchanan (106:03)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (106:04)

But we have no control of other people and what they do. And it's. I think it might lengthen the journey a little bit because we have to find that closure on our own.

Jessica Buchanan (106:13)

Yes.

Podcast Host (106:13)

And it's not as easy as just somebody being like, I knew and I'm sorry. And I.

Jessica Buchanan (106:19)

You.

Podcast Host (106:20)

I should have let you trust your gut.

Jessica Buchanan (106:22)

And I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not even sure that's what I needed.

Podcast Host (106:25)

Probably not.

Jessica Buchanan (106:26)

You know what I mean?

Podcast Host (106:26)

But it would, it would feel good in that moment. But do. Does it make a big difference in your journey? Who knows?

Jessica Buchanan (106:31)

Who knows?

Podcast Host (106:31)

Maybe not. But I think might suck a little bit more not getting that. But being able to do the healing and the work within yourself, I think it's a little bit more sustainable and long term.

Jessica Buchanan (106:45)

Right. Well. And to choose that in spite of the fact that, you know, I'm never stay angry. Yeah.

Podcast Host (106:51)

And some people do. That's the sad part is in trauma, some people, people, they, they don't want to put in the work.

Jessica Buchanan (106:58)

Why do you think that is because it's hard? Yeah.

Podcast Host (107:02)

You know, like, I mean, even if you haven't been through anything, to show up and work on yourself and be willing to recognize and take accountability for what needs to change how you're feeling, it's. It's very overwhelming.

Jessica Buchanan (107:17)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (107:17)

And I think sometimes it's easier to just stay angry and stay bitter and go the route that I think naturally, when something happens to you, your body just wants to shut down.

Jessica Buchanan (107:28)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (107:29)

It's. I think it's harder and more difficult to wake up every day and face those demons and work through them.

Jessica Buchanan (107:36)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (107:36)

You have to be. In my opinion, I think you have to be a certain type of person, have a very certain type of motivation, and. And you have to want to get through it. You have to want to be better. No one can convince that of.

Jessica Buchanan (107:50)

Of you.

Podcast Host (107:50)

And then there's some people like Paul, and this is. I'm. Maybe I'm putting words in his mouth, I don't know, but. Or assuming. But there's people like that, too, that maybe he really feels like he's okay and kind of just keeps it pushing. And on an outside perspective, it's like, how. How does he just keep going? And then I feel like my life is crumbling, but maybe he just hasn't faced it yet.

Jessica Buchanan (108:13)

Right. You know, and I have the mindset that it's going to come and get you at some point. At some point. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, it'll come. It will always. You can't outrun it. No. You know, and that's not my problem. Like, that's his, so. And I have no idea. Maybe he has dealt with it. Right. Like, I have no idea. We don't have any contact. But I think two things. I felt like I had a responsibility to heal because I think that, again, that there was this sense of duty that I had, you know, being a recipient of, like, a rescue operation, like Seal Team 6 in my country, investing so much in terms of. Of, like, resources and money, essentially. You know, like, I'm like, I have a duty to, like, be the best person I can be. Right. You got a child coming, and then I have these kids.

Podcast Host (108:57)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (108:57)

I. If I'm not going to heal for myself, I have to heal from them, you know, because I had a tumultuous childhood. My mom, she had her demons that she didn't deal with, and it affected me 100 and I didn't. I. I guess in some ways I do feel kind of like. Like I'm. I've broken some of Those generational.

Podcast Host (109:17)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (109:17)

Cycles. And it is the hardest work I have ever done. And I'm like, good Lord, no wonder I'm tired. But.

Podcast Host (109:24)

Right. But that is. And it's.

Jessica Buchanan (109:25)

It.

Podcast Host (109:26)

It is crazy that you found out you're pregnant a month later. Like, that. That really was your. That's probably exactly what you needed.

Jessica Buchanan (109:34)

And I can see. I can see that now in the. In the moment. It kind of makes you hold on hard. And I was so scared. Scared. So, so scared. But I can see now that he was sent to save me.

Podcast Host (109:45)

Absolutely.

Jessica Buchanan (109:47)

Yeah. And he is such a special. Special. I mean, they're both special, but he. I have two. He's. He just turned 13.

Podcast Host (109:54)

Wow.

Jessica Buchanan (109:54)

And now he's a teenager. And not always very nice to me.

Podcast Host (109:57)

But it's the age.

Jessica Buchanan (109:59)

Yeah. And then my daughter's almost 11. And I was thinking about it while I was driving here and how I. I am just. I'm so grateful that I got to live and I got to experience these very. These human experiences because they have been extraordinary.

Podcast Host (110:18)

Absolutely. And I think, too, you know, I. I say this a lot to people. I always feel bad. I'm like, I hope I'm not too repetitive in my episodes, but, you know, there's so many different types of traumas. Yours is definitely a case that. That not many people experience and go through, but the aftermath of it and the fact that you are able to write about it and speak about it, it touches anyone else that's been through any type of trauma, because everybody knows what it feels like to be in a rut or to have to fight to get out of one, you know, and that I think you can have any type of experience. Some really, really scary and bad.

Jessica Buchanan (111:00)

Some. Some.

Podcast Host (111:01)

And everybody handles it differently, too, so. But that, I think, is a whole nother aspect of it, and it's a whole nother aspect of how, you know, the journey can really just. I think for a while, it can seem like, I can't believe this happened. And you can have that anger, and it can feel like your life was uprooted. But then. And you had your fulfillment, you know, with your teaching and. And doing that then. And now it's like, I. This is your new fulfillment.

Jessica Buchanan (111:28)

Right.

Podcast Host (111:29)

This is your new way of teaching.

Jessica Buchanan (111:30)

Right.

Podcast Host (111:30)

And helping people.

Jessica Buchanan (111:32)

Right. And I. I am a big believer in. Like, I have a friend who said to me not too long ago, and I just think that this is the most incredible statement ever. He said, things don't always happen for a reason, but that doesn't mean we can't derive purpose from them.

Podcast Host (111:49)

Yep.

Jessica Buchanan (111:50)

And that has been like my North Star. And so, yes, the fulfillment or purpose or whatever you want to call it is really, like, my hypothesis, I guess, in terms of, like, how we move forward as trauma survivors. You know, I know that everybody you talk to on this podcast has been through something significant and extraordinary. And my. My belief is that the way we pull ourselves out of the depths of despair in that that healing journey is to really find some sort of purpose to connect to, whether it's rescuing animals or talking about it or writing about it or, you know, starting a school, whatever, or becoming a massage therapist, whatever it is. Like, it doesn't matter how big or how small, but you have to find something that you have to find a reason to get up in the morning.

Podcast Host (112:43)

Absolutely. And it's not easy.

Jessica Buchanan (112:47)

Being human is hard. Right.

Podcast Host (112:48)

And I tell people all the time, I'm like, even if you're not doing any of that, that. But you're just willing to use your voice and speak and share and get vulnerable.

Jessica Buchanan (112:58)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (112:59)

It changes people's lives.

Jessica Buchanan (113:01)

It does.

Podcast Host (113:02)

Like, you don't have to be a celebrity. You don't have to be anybody. It's just your story. It's your voice, and it can make people feel like I'm not alone or if they could do it, I can do it. And that is such a moving, incredible thing.

Jessica Buchanan (113:17)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (113:17)

And it doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter where you came from. It just matters that you're using your voice. And that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to communicate.

Jessica Buchanan (113:25)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (113:25)

We're supposed to help others, and we can heal each other without doing something extraordinary. It can be just talking.

Jessica Buchanan (113:34)

Yes.

Podcast Host (113:34)

And being open and being kind. And I think it's so. It could be really, really simple. I think a lot of our world and society is the lost sight of that, of how simple it is and how the smallest things can make the biggest difference. But they really can.

Jessica Buchanan (113:50)

Well, I think we over complicate things, but also, are. Do we over complicate them? To hide behind them, to use them as an excuse?

Podcast Host (113:56)

For sure.

Jessica Buchanan (113:57)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (113:58)

For sure.

Jessica Buchanan (113:59)

And when. And you just laid it out very clearly. It's really not hard.

Podcast Host (114:02)

Right.

Jessica Buchanan (114:03)

It's very simple. And. And, you know, I. That's what you're doing here. It's incredible. I love it.

Podcast Host (114:09)

And I love it because I get to learn and I get to give people the space. And, you know, something else I say all the time, too, is I. I Think social media has so many pros and cons. It does, you know, and while it's entertaining and it's fun, it's also toxic. And you can just get in this mind scroll of things. But, you know, I always said if I could just, I, you know, when I started this, I had a really small platform and I was like, if I could just give people a voice and take this small, little, little, you know, thing I have and give it away and just, I don't need it to be about me, just give it to people. And in the moment that sounded great, but in my mind I was like, is that really gonna happen? Who knows? But the fact that this has turned into something, you know, that people can just use it as an outlet.

Jessica Buchanan (114:58)

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Podcast Host (115:37)

Has the league ever seen anything like this?

Jessica Buchanan (115:39)

Coverage begins at 7:30 Eastern with football's best party teeing up tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member. Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Broncos and Chiefs Christmas night at 7:30 Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

Podcast Host (115:56)

Speak. And to hear others and, and you know, to talk about their lives, to talk about where they are now and, you know, share their books and share whatever they want. That is so fulfilling to me and it's so, it makes me so grateful that I'm able to provide that space because it's not, I always say it's funny. It's like I'm not really doing. People will be like, yes, you are doing much. But like, I'm not really doing that much. I'm just sitting here and I'm giving people that safe space to talk, which I know is. It's hard to find and that is a lot. But at the same time it's, it's, you know, you guys and it's your vulnerability that is. That creates the show. It makes it what it is, you know, and that I'm so grateful for every single one of the people that have come on and that are willing to tell me a stranger, you know, and tell my audience. And I hope that if that's something that can keep continuing on because it gives so many people courage and strength.

Jessica Buchanan (116:49)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (116:50)

People that you don't even know, you know.

Jessica Buchanan (116:52)

Well, it's very generous and of you. And you're, You're. It's not very common.

Podcast Host (116:56)

It's sad. It's great. That's something that I just can't wrap my head around. I feel like the world, and I hate to because it's. It sounds negative, but I think it's. The reality of it is it feels like it only gets worse, unfortunately. Like it doesn't feel like it's going in a good direction.

Jessica Buchanan (117:09)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (117:10)

But hopefully the more stories that people hear, the nicer people will become. That's what we can hope.

Jessica Buchanan (117:15)

Right.

Podcast Host (117:16)

Okay, so you have your two books, did you.

Jessica Buchanan (117:17)

You wrote both of these? Yep.

Podcast Host (117:19)

Okay. And is that your. Is that what you're doing now full time, is your writing and everything?

Jessica Buchanan (117:25)

So I have a couple more books in between these that are anthologies, but I have a publishing company.

Podcast Host (117:30)

Okay.

Jessica Buchanan (117:31)

So I started that about five years ago. So I get to teach. I continue to get to teach. And originally we just started it for women who survived something. So we publish memoir manifestos. You've been through something, now you know something, and you want to teach us something. Something. And we started out by putting together these anthology experiences. So we bring together a cohort of 20 women, we teach them how to write, we teach them more about memoir, writing, the process, all of that. And it's. I think we're. We're like on our seventh or eighth one. I mean, it's just been tremendous. So I wrote Impossible Odds with my husband and we had a ghostwriter help us with some of the military pieces. And that's the book that we wrote in 2013. Thirteen that did really well. And so that's, you know, typically the story that people want to read. It's an account, it's a non fiction narrative. But what I have found to be really healing for me is community building and to know that I'm not alone. And I really feel like sharing our stories, much to your point, through written word, is not only healing through the act of writing about our trauma. I mean, there's science that backs up the, the, the healing effects on our bodies, like our physical bodies, and our minds and our emotions by writing about our trauma. So I'm a big believer and lean into that. But also just like that, building that camaraderie in that community so that we all know that we're not alone. I mean, I work with women every day who've been through far worse situations than I have, and they're still, like, you know, putting one foot in front of the other, and they're generously sharing their stories because they want to help other people. Um, how to survive. Survival is a guide to those years in the aftermath of your trauma. It's all of the things that I've learned in the skills and the tools that I've collected along my healing journey. And then I highlighted 20 other survivors and. And share their stories and what they've been through and how they're making meaningful contribution to the world. So I spend a lot of time with words, and I spend a lot of time with survivors, and I am always blown away at the impact that it has on the survivor and then the reader as well. And I just feel. Yeah, I'm really privileged to get to do that.

Podcast Host (119:49)

That's amazing. And I feel like, you know, even for you, hearing all these different stories, it can really. It just. It can make you relate to somebody. And it's in such a similar, but different way, for sure. You know, like, the circumstances might be so different, but the ways that you feel.

Jessica Buchanan (120:08)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (120:09)

And the aftermath and what you go through and the different thoughts, it's.

Jessica Buchanan (120:13)

It's very similar. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all human.

Podcast Host (120:16)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (120:17)

Yeah. And we all have our own ways of coping, but they're very. They're kind of standardized, too. Right. You know, because that's how we're wired. So I just find it really inspiring to be around all of these women. We've just started an imprint for men as well. But mainly I. My audience is women, and that's really who I feel called to serve now in this capacity. And they. They inspire me every day.

Podcast Host (120:46)

That's incredible.

Jessica Buchanan (120:47)

Yeah, I love that.

Podcast Host (120:48)

And I love that, you know, what you used to do has transformed into still teaching, but in a different capacity in a different way. And. And, you know, I. I think, too, there's. There's nothing wrong. And it is. I think we always are going to grieve our old selves or our old lives, because, I mean, that was a half a quarter, whatever of your life. You know, that's a huge chunk of it. And. And we all identify with certain things that we do yeah. All the time. And to let go of those things is terrifying and it feels like we're losing ourselves. But I think in actuality, if you are able to shed that skill in and step into this new identity and build something new, whether it's by choice or because of what you went through, I think that by being able to do that and being able to reinvent yourself and find yourself and, you know, transform these things that you've gone through into something that can help people, I think that is going to teach you more about yourself than what you thought maybe you were supposed to do. It's like it almost becomes, like you said, like, I'm at peace with it. Like, that was one part my life and I learned so much and I was so fulfilled. But this is now.

Jessica Buchanan (122:02)

Yeah.

Podcast Host (122:03)

And I think that's such an incredible thing because not many people have the courage to do it. That's a very scary, scary place to be. And you, like I said before, I think you have to be a certain type of person with motivation, whether it's motivation for yourself or to help others to be able to power through and actually build and create something and keep it going.

Jessica Buchanan (122:24)

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think at the end of the day, I just want to live.

Podcast Host (122:28)

Yeah.

Jessica Buchanan (122:29)

And this is what living looks like. Not just surviving.

Podcast Host (122:32)

Right. Well, you did incredible. And I'm so grateful that you came out here. And it's crazy to me that now you're so close. Yeah. I mean, I know it took a.

Jessica Buchanan (122:41)

Little while with traffic, but still, like, what are the odds? I know, right?

Podcast Host (122:44)

But no, seriously, thank you so much. You did amazing.

Jessica Buchanan (122:47)

Thank you.

Podcast Host (122:47)

Thank you for sharing your story and coming here. Is there any other. Anything else you wanted to talk about? Talk about? Anything else you wanted to share? Did you get it all?

Jessica Buchanan (122:53)

I think so. I think that's all of it.

Podcast Host (122:55)

You did amazing.

Jessica Buchanan (122:57)

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Podcast Host (123:01)

The og it kicked off this whole.

Jessica Buchanan (123:03)

Zero Sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor. Flavor for every vibe. And every single one is Zero Sugar.

Podcast Host (123:23)

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