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- [00:00]
A
Hi, everyone. My name is Nassim rochette. And on May 21, 2018, I was hit and run over by a car three times. The car hit me, drove over me, reversed over me, and then drove over me again. And I was pinned underneath the car all while my husband was watching. Actually, I was in a pedestrian crosswalk crossing the street to him.
- [00:29]
B
Crazy. Yeah. And incredible that you're here and well and alive. I have so many questions already, but I'll wait.
- [00:39]
A
I know there's so many places to go.
- [00:41]
B
Yes. And to start. Yeah. Literally.
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A
Why don't I start with the day?
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B
Start with the day. Yeah.
- [00:48]
A
You know, it was actually an amazing day, you know, and I still smile when I think about that day because, you know, I woke up, it was a Monday morning, and, you know, I was feeling good about myself. I was feeling skinny, which, you know, always plays into my morning routine. I had a work meeting in New York City. I live in New Jersey. You know, my kids were all great. They were 9, 11, and 13. Like, life was feeling good. I had just started a new job at Microsoft. I was a few months in, life was aligning. And I went to New York, had a great day of meetings, took an early train home to go out to dinner with my kids and my husband and a babysitter who actually started that day. And it was such a beautiful day out that I decided to walk home halfway and, you know, ask my husband to pick me up before we got to this hilly part of where I live because. Cause I'm short and I used to always wear like 5 inch heels.
- [01:55]
B
I love it.
- [01:57]
A
So I see my husband across the street and he's parked caddy corner to me, but it's in front of our kids middle school. So I didn't want to be rude and just jaywalk across the street. So I said, hold on. I went to a first crosswalk, got in the crosswalk, successfully crossed, and then I was in the middle of the second crosswalk. He was tied 10, 15ft away from me when I saw a car turn and come towards me. And I was in the middle of the crosswalk. I yelled and the car stopped, but it hit me. But the car stopped. And I was having such a good day that I was actually standing in there with the car against me thinking, I can't believe she's hitting me today. I'm having this great day. And I was thinking, oh, no, I'm gonna be black and blue and I'm gonna be late for dinner. But really I wasn't worried because I was standing. I was fine. And I actually thought to myself, well, got hit by a car. Great cocktail party story.
- [03:01]
B
Yeah. So when you were hit the first time, you didn't go down?
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A
No, I was standing.
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B
Okay. Do you know how fast they were going?
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A
It couldn't have been very fast.
- [03:11]
B
Got it.
- [03:12]
A
Maybe 15, 20. It was residential by the school.
- [03:16]
B
And I'm assuming you had the right of way.
- [03:18]
A
Yes, I was in a pedestrian crosswalk.
- [03:20]
B
Got it.
- [03:21]
A
So, you know, so she stopped. Everything seemed okay. And then she accelerated, and that's when I hit the hood. And then, you know, fell backwards onto the roadway. And my husband said it was like, you know, monster truck driving over me. And then she reversed over me. And, you know, during these moments, everything is in slow motion. And I was actually fully conscious throughout this, so I remember every second of it. And while this is happening, so the first time she ran me over, I was wiggling, trying to get out from under the car, and I was screaming. My husband was screaming, Other witnesses were screaming. And then the second time, when she reversed over me, that's where my thoughts really changed. And I thought, something is wrong. This is going on too long. Something isn't right here. And I started to have those end of life thoughts of I'm gonna die. And I say I wasn't 99% sure. I was 100% sure I was gonna die. And I started reflecting on my life, and I mentioned that I was happy that day. I should also mention that for me to wake up and feel happy like that, that in itself was a victory in my life. Because I was such a shy, insecure, awkward teenager, even young adult. I say it probably took me about 20, 25 years for me to be comfortable with who I was. Cause I grew up in a town where we were one of the only Indian families. I didn't want to be different. You know, I didn't want to look different. And really struggled with who I was and was really, really insecure. And then, you know, so probably by my mid-20s, I was finally comfortable with who I was. But it took many, many more years before I liked who I was. And on this day, I was 47 years old, and I liked who I was, and I liked my life, and I didn't want it to end. And as I started reflecting, thought, you know what? It's been a good life, and I don't want it to end. But I've had fun. You know, my kids know I love them, and I travel a lot for work, and I always used to get on planes and think, oh, I should write the kids a letter. And I never wrote the kids a letter. And I was, you know, in that moment, I was thinking, why didn't I write them letters? But as I reflected on the vacations and, you know, the time we spent together, I've always been a working mom, but I've also always been present when I'm with them. So we've had so many great times. And I thought, you know what? Even if I'm not there when they graduate, when they get married, and all these future moments, they know. They know who I am. They know how much I love them. And, you know, that brought me a lot of comfort and a lot of peace, and I didn't want to leave them. But, you know, I thought, okay, they know.
- [06:33]
B
Yeah.
- [06:34]
A
Then I realized, they know. Nobody else knows. You know, I wasn't telling everyone else in my life that made an impact how special they were. You know, I wasn't, you know, acknowledging, you know, the small moments, the things that really just make relationships special. I didn't appreciate all the time, and I thought, you know, I didn't appreciate all the time, and I didn't tell people all of the wonderful impacts they've had on my life, and now they'll never know. And that I felt a lot of regret for. I didn't say everything I needed to say to people outside of my kids. I'll tell you, I had no thoughts about my career or did I make an impact on the world. I just thought about the people in my life, and I was having those thoughts. And then it's actually around then, and it was like 20 minutes of conversation in my head in a matter of seconds.
- [07:32]
B
And.
- [07:32]
A
And then the car went forward and drove over me a third time. And I should say, the car drove over my legs, over my chest, and over my head and neck. The car drove actually over my head and neck. And the third time it drove over me, I was kind of back in the moment, seeing the underside of the car, feeling the gravel, hearing the screams, and I was done. I was ready to let go. I'd had my final thoughts, and I was ready to let go. And then the car stopped.
- [08:10]
B
So, quick question.
- [08:11]
A
Sure.
- [08:12]
B
That's. First of all, that's like. That's heavy. And on top of it all, it's like, I feel like it's one thing to be faced with those thoughts and basically accepting, okay, this is it. I'm gonna die without my control at all. But then on top of it, it's happening in such A traumatic way, which is terrifying. And then I can't imagine your husband. Yeah, I mean, that is something horrifying.
- [08:39]
A
And it was an actually, you know, hearing his screams in some ways kept me grounded, but hearing his screams also told me, this is bad. Yeah, this is bad.
- [08:50]
B
During when this was happening, do you remember if you felt any pain?
- [08:54]
A
I didn't feel any pain until the car stopped.
- [08:58]
B
Okay.
- [08:59]
A
So once the car stopped, you know, I was. I was laying under the car. Luckily, when the car stopped, I wasn't under a tire. I was under the middle of the car. I mean, I was still pinned under the car, but, you know, not. Not with the tire.
- [09:13]
B
When she. It was a woman driving.
- [09:15]
A
It was a woman.
- [09:16]
B
So when she went back over you, she didn't. She just stopped right over top of you?
- [09:20]
A
Basically, yes. That was the third time when she.
- [09:22]
B
Was going forward with me.
- [09:24]
A
So I was pinned underneath the. And, you know, I actually started. You know, that's when I started feeling pain. And to be honest, I was done. Like, I was trying to close my eyes and let go, but there were people around trying to talk to me. In fact, they were trying to talk to me, and the driver was just screaming in this tantrum that they couldn't even talk to me. They had to move her away because, you know, she was just like a child having a tantrum with. With no regard for me. And, you know, so. So luckily this. You know, these bystanders were trying to keep me in the moment, and I think they. You know, maybe in some ways, they. They kind of kept me alive. You know, they were asking me. And I remember. I think I said to them, you're giving me busy work, you know, asking me these questions. And that's when the pain started, and that's when I started to come back to reality. And I. I realized, you know, I was in this pool of blood that was just growing and growing. It was like this river flowing around me, and all I could feel was rough gravel, and I didn't know if my face was ripped off. And I couldn't move my body. I couldn't move my body at all. I could wrinkle my fingers and my toes. So I thought, probably means I'm not paralyzed. But I had no idea the extent of the injuries. And then, you know, I mentioned earlier that I had woken up that morning, you know, gone into the city. So that pre. Accident, that woman that woke up that morning, she was like a master multitasker. Like, you know, always a working mom. You know, I got a second Master's degree. You know, as a mom working full time, like, I juggled, and I did it really well. You know, in fact, I juggled so well, I almost made it look easy. Like, you know, and I'll tell you more about that in a little while. But, you know, I was used to being in control. I was. You know, I was always. I worked very hard to be in control or look like I was in control. So when I was under the car, you know, and I started to realize that I was alive, that control freak came back, and I was like, honey, do you have my purse? Do you have my iPhone?
- [11:38]
B
Do you have all my things?
- [11:40]
A
Yes, I know. I started worrying about that. You know, once I knew I was. I was alive, I didn't want to lose. You know, I didn't want to lose my phone. I started worrying about my phone. Shoes. I had my favorite shoes on. I was like, oh, no, right.
- [11:50]
B
Like, the things that, like, aren't life and death, that's what. That's where the brain goes. I feel like, too, that might be, in a way. I mean, I don't know, but like, a way for you to almost keep yourself calm. Like, let me worry about, like, these little things, you know, and act like everything's kind of normal in a way.
- [12:06]
A
I think that is a great insight.
- [12:07]
B
Okay. Yeah.
- [12:08]
A
I mean, you know, it was actually so ridiculous, I was even worried I was wearing a skirt that day. I was thinking, oh, my God, is my ass showing to all of the firemen and policemen in South Orange? You know, I'm, like, wearing cute underwear today. You know, all these, like, ridiculous things that I didn't really need to worry about while I'm pinned under a car and can't move. But that's where my thoughts were going. And I think it was probably comforting myself, too. So finally they, you know, they took the car off me. They had to get airbags to lift it off. Cause it was on a hill. And they put me on a longboard. And actually, the first thing I said to the, you know, the paramedics was, you know, I'm. I'm vain. Is my face ripped off? You know, because I really felt like it was gone. And they said, no, it's not ripped off. You know, and which I was very thankful about. But, you know, still, I couldn't move my body. And they put me on the longboard and took me to the nearest trauma center, which, you know, of course, I was like, well, do I need to go to the trauma center, or can't I go to this other, more luxurious hospital.
- [13:13]
B
And.
- [13:13]
A
And they were like, no, you need to go to the trauma center. So they took me to the trauma center. You know, my husband had the very, very hard job of having to tell my kids, you know, calling my daughter, telling her I was in an accident, calling my, you know, my parents, my brother, and not having any information, just that I watched her get run over. So my kids, my husband came to the hospital and they actually spent about 90 minutes having no idea what happened to me. I know it was some of the scariest moments for my kids lives. But while they were pacing around, I was getting test after test, X rays, scans, and much to everyone's surprise, and I was conscious. So they would ask me what happened. I was run over three times. The tires ran over me five times. So everyone was horrified and scared and in disbelief because I did not break a single bone.
- [14:20]
B
Wow.
- [14:21]
A
I had no skull fracture, no internal bleeding. I mean, I had lots of issues, like, lots and lots of issues, but no broken bones.
- [14:30]
B
Crazy.
- [14:30]
A
I know.
- [14:32]
B
What kind of car was it?
- [14:33]
A
It was an suv. It was a white suv. Yeah.
- [14:37]
B
And that is wild. And like the. The amount of areas it ran over you too?
- [14:43]
A
I know. There's actually a week after the accident. Cause, you know, after it happened, I thought, how could have. This. Could this really have happened?
- [14:52]
B
Right. Yeah. It's such a.
- [14:53]
A
And I'm alive. And you know, I thought the car went over my head and neck and, you know, you know, here and there. And you know, my husband saw it all and other people saw it, but how could it really happen? And I'm alive.
- [15:04]
B
Right.
- [15:05]
A
And I really just kept questioning, you know, my sanity.
- [15:09]
B
And I'm sure too, at some degree you're thinking, why did it happen so many times? It's so scary.
- [15:16]
A
It is.
- [15:17]
B
And it's one of those things too, where I feel like people will think this can't happen to me or like, you know, you're taking your safety measures like in a. Didn't matter in that case at all.
- [15:29]
A
And actually, I think just on that note, when it did happen, that first night, we were reading some posts of neighbors. Nobody knew that it was me. They just knew somebody that got run over because there were lots of police and helicopters and things like that. And there was all this skepticism, putting the pedestrian at the wrong. Oh, she must have been on her phone. She must have been distracted, this and that, you know, And I think. And you know, I wasn't on my phone and I was in a pedestrian crosswalk, so. So there was none of that. But I think, you know, just as you noted, people want to feel like I must have done something wrong for that to happen.
- [16:12]
B
There has to be a reason.
- [16:13]
A
There has to be a reason. It can't just happen.
- [16:16]
B
Well, you're here to tell. Tell everybody. Yes, it can. And that's life. Yeah.
- [16:20]
A
You know, absolutely.
- [16:21]
B
Like, you can have a million eyes, and unfortunately, still horrible things can happen.
- [16:26]
A
Yeah. And, you know, and it's. It's up to us how we. How we interpret it.
- [16:31]
B
Yeah.
- [16:32]
A
How we. How we make it through.
- [16:33]
B
Absolutely.
- [16:34]
A
So, you know, I was saying before, like, I went after the accident, I kept thinking, you know, I must be crazy, you know, that this happened and I survived. And I remember about seven days after you could see all these bruises on my neck. And I remember feeling so happy because. Cause I was like. They were the tire marks. I was like, you know, and I had a soft spot on my head, and I. You know, But I thought, like, who believes me if I can barely believe myself? So I always call that my favorite accident picture.
- [17:06]
B
Cause it was like, proof for yourself.
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A
Yes.
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B
Yeah.
- [17:09]
A
Yeah.
- [17:10]
B
And why do you think that was within yourself that you just couldn't believe it?
- [17:16]
A
Well, I think a few things. So first, when, you know, when we found out nothing was broken, they. The, you know, hospital had no reason to admit me. You know, I think they. I think they had reasons, but they weren't going to admit me. When nothing was broken, I had to stay in, you know, the ER for several hours because I needed eye surgery and I needed stitches all over my face and my body. But they were doing all of that from the er, so. And actually, when it. When they, you know, we found out nothing was broken, I turned to my husband and I said, tell my boss I'll be back to work on Thursday. This was a Monday. Because I thought, you know, if nothing's broken and they don't need to keep me in the hospital, you know, I have a strong mind and a positive attitude, and I'll just get back to work in a couple days.
- [18:01]
B
Yeah.
- [18:02]
A
Meanwhile, you know, I couldn't walk, I couldn't see. You know, my brain didn't work. So. And I'll tell you more about some of those things in a minute. But when, you know, I was in the hospital and they didn't need me to stay and released me back home, I thought, if I'm not so broken as to need to be in the hospital, I don't deserve, you know, all the kindness that I was getting. So when I got home, from the hospital. I have this wonderful community of people that wanted to help me, and they wanted to. And they brought me flowers, and they wanted to drive my kids, and they started a meal train. And, oh, my gosh, I was so mortified. I'm not somebody that accepted help. I was a person that offered and gave the help. And I just felt like everyone looked at me as so weak and broken, and every act of kindness was like a debt in my ledger. I really had a hard time with it. And a couple things happened early on that actually, I think really helped change my trajectory of healing. So, you know, I came home from the hospital, I couldn't see. You know, I had a very bad concussion. I have a traumatic brain injury, and I couldn't think. I couldn't do simple tasks. You know, I certainly couldn't walk. I couldn't move my arms. You know, I can go on. There's a long list of things that I couldn't do, as you can imagine. However, I. You know, I could still feel. And during this time, my brother. This first week, my brother lost his dog. My brother and I are very close, and he really, really, really loved his dog. And so when he lost his dog, all I could think is, I have to cheer my brother up. You know, Meanwhile, he's like, you know, sister, you just got run over three times. Like, don't worry about me. But I still worried about him, and I wanted to help him. And the light bulb, unfortunately, did not go off right away, but, you know, that planted a seed that just, like, I need to help him, people probably need to help me. The accident didn't just happen to me. It happened to my husband and my kids and to everyone that loved me and depended on me. And I needed to find a way to let them help me.
- [20:32]
B
And I think, allow yourself to take that time and give yourself some grace. To be like, this was just as traumatic for me mentally as it was physically. Like, it seems like, like you said, you're just somebody that. I feel like it's go, go, go. And stopping makes you feel weak.
- [20:51]
A
Yes.
- [20:51]
B
And lower than you are. And which is. It's. I think that that's something a lot of people struggle with, but because it's almost like an identity crisis, you're like, I don't want to. I don't want to slow down. I don't want to sit in my own thoughts. Like, I just want to keep going. But it's almost like it forces you to have to do that because you physically can't do anything.
- [21:10]
A
Else, you're absolutely right. And actually, you know, I was fortunate that my doctors, my husband forced me to see a trauma therapist, and the trauma therapist said the same thing to me. She's like, you know, you have to slow down. You can't. You're not that person that you were. And she also taught me about the art of kintsugi. Okay. Where you take a broken piece of pottery and it's. It's like a Japanese philosophy and art where you take a broken piece of pottery and you put it back together with a gold inlay.
- [21:42]
B
Okay.
- [21:42]
A
So it's about celebrating the journey of the vase, and the. The cracks in the vase make it more beautiful.
- [21:49]
B
Yes. I love that.
- [21:50]
A
Oh, my God. I loved it, too. And it actually gave me a way to. And look, I say all this like, you know, like, I was enlightened. This was all a journey. Yeah. Right.
- [22:01]
B
And it doesn't happen overnight either.
- [22:03]
A
It did not happen overnight, but it did give me a way to start thinking about the accident and positioning myself not as a victim, but as, you know, someone who had this in their journey. This accident is part of my journey, and I can talk about it and I can share what's going on, and I can let people help by letting them in, but I don't have to be the victim. This is just my journey. In fact, I loved it so much that I would put glitter on my scars instead of trying to hide them with makeup.
- [22:38]
B
Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that.
- [22:40]
A
Really, it really helped me.
- [22:42]
B
I feel like it's empowering.
- [22:44]
A
It was empowering. It was. And it's actually, you know, we. We call the anniversary of the accident Unbreakable Day. And it really. The whole idea of kintsugi really helped me acknowledge and celebrate, you know, that. That breaking, you know, doesn't mean I'm broken.
- [23:01]
B
Yeah.
- [23:02]
A
And I think having that framework of kintsugi, recognizing people need to be let in, really enabled me to open up, you know, and not just with my, you know, my family, but with the people that wanted to help me that I didn't know as well. Sort of like, you know, the moms I'd meet on the soccer field or, you know, people from drop off and, you know, I lived in my town for several years. The neighbors, people that I would talk to, you know, maybe regularly, but never really know. Yeah, they would come over and bring, you know, flowers or dinner or want to check on me and. And where in the beginning, I would tell my kids or my husband to just tell them I'm sleeping. I Didn't want to see anybody. I didn't want them to see me all battered and bruised and broken. I would start letting them in, and I would start telling them what was going on, and I would be telling them, but I wasn't complaining. It was, this is where I am. This is where I'm at now and my progress and where I hope to go. And they would start sharing what was going on in their lives, you know, their struggles, you know, their maybe lost jobs or illnesses or. Or things that they were navigating through that I had never known about.
- [24:21]
B
Right. It creates, like, this community for you.
- [24:24]
A
Really did it? Really did. It just made the relationships so much more meaningful.
- [24:29]
B
Yeah.
- [24:29]
A
You know, so much, so much stronger. And what was also really nice is that once I started to tell people where I am, you know, I could celebrate them when I made progress. Like, you know, I often give this example, like, if I said to you, devorah, I showered today, you know, you certainly wouldn't be impressed.
- [24:48]
B
Right. I'm glad you're clean.
- [24:52]
A
But if you knew that I couldn't walk up the stairs or bare body on, you know, my, you know, battered body, bear water on my battered body or lift my arm because of the nerve damage, like, if you didn't know all those things, you wouldn't be impressed at a shower.
- [25:10]
B
Right.
- [25:11]
A
But. But knowing all those things, you know, what a huge first milestone that was, you know, that, like, zipping up my sweatshirt doesn't seem like a big deal, but. But when I couldn't even lift my arm, zipping up a sweatshirt, it's a really big deal.
- [25:25]
B
Right.
- [25:26]
A
And. And that was a really wonderful lesson that I learned about just sharing the journey. And I found actually that not only was so rewarding personally, it's really helped me professionally, too. It's helped me being more vulnerable with my colleagues at work. Talking about the tough stuff has given us the opportunity to know each other better and to celebrate more.
- [25:55]
B
Yeah. I think communication and relatability, it's so important because I always say we live in this world where it's so easy to just keep going. And I think for a lot of people, it feels better for a while that way, because you don't have to face the negatives in life. You don't have to think about, well, what do I need to work on? What do I need to do? You know, you can just keep it going. And I think in a way that makes you feel strong and powerful and like, oh, I'm a. I. I grind it out. I'm a hard worker. And I think there's not enough people that find the balance in both, you know, to give yourself that time and that grace and know that it's also healthy to take that downtime, you know, and allow yourself to slow down mentally, physically, everything.
- [26:40]
A
You are 100% correct. In fact, I think there's even one more drawback. So I mentioned earlier that I was so good at juggling, I made it look easy. The reason I said that was because after the accident, so that pre accident me, you know, was, you know, always juggling, never showing, you know, any kind of weakness or crack. And, you know, a woman I know said to me, you know, she said you were a really unsympathetic character. I made it look so easy. I didn't let people in. And I am so thankful that I that that has changed, you know, And I think right now, actually, in this age of social media too, there are so many people that work so hard to show the perfect facade, not realizing that when they're not showing their cracks, you know, they're. They're less relatable.
- [27:36]
B
And also it's a ripple effect. You know, I don't think people realize that it is. When you're watching people who appear so perfect, it makes you feel like, well, what's wrong with me? I have to be perfect? Or, you know, maybe I should perceive myself that way so that other people think that. And then it's just this ongoing loop which isn't reality, you know, and we can have these really good days, but they come when they go. We can have good days and bad days. You know, they're both there. I think that it's pretty obvious that you had a huge change within yourself after the accident because you. I think you were forced to in a way. You know, I feel like if you. If you didn't have to change, why would you want to, you know? But I guess my question is, overall, do you feel like it made you a completely different person?
- [28:27]
A
I don't know if it made me a completely different person, but I definitely feel lucky for having the experience to grow in all the ways that I did.
- [28:37]
B
Okay.
- [28:37]
A
Yeah, you know, I. So when I was in the hospital, you know, I. As I mentioned, I woke up feeling good and happy with my life. When I was in the hospital and all the nurses and doctors were getting the results that I hadn't broken any bones, they kept saying, you were safe for a reason. You need to pay it forward. And I was like, well, in my mind, I'm like, I Can't open my eyes. I can't move. I don't want this burden of paying it forward. But I also thought, I like my life the way it is. I don't want to drastically change it. And, you know, paying it forward always seems like it must be this big effort. And, you know, as you said, like, I, you know, I didn't. I didn't completely change, but I did start to think, how do I get incrementally better? Yeah. How do I use this to, you know, have a. You know, have an even. And I was positive before, but, you know, I was closed in many ways. How do I just be better? And I didn't know what that looked like. And, you know, again, like, let me say this. This didn't all happen as, you know, as an epiphany. The day after the accident. You know, for weeks after the accident, I was waking up every morning and crying.
- [29:51]
B
Absolutely. It's frustrating.
- [29:53]
A
It is. You know, I was crying because, you know, physically I was in pain, and mentally my mind didn't work. Like, I could not do the simplest of tasks. And, you know, I thought, how am I ever going to go back to work? I'm a problem solver. That's what I do for my job. How am I going to problem solve if I can't fill out a camp form, if I can't do basics?
- [30:19]
B
Thanks, Kitty.
- [30:20]
A
She's like, let me sketch this for you.
- [30:24]
B
Right. No, that makes sense.
- [30:26]
A
And, you know, much to my surprise, I've gone back to work and I can't juggle the chaos and solve the problems that I used to in some ways. But there are new things that I can do and there are deeper relationships I have. And actually, my career has been stronger, oddly enough, with the traumatic brain injury, much to my surprise. But I think a lot of that has to do with what we talked about in Kintsugi and how we frame this is our story. As, you know, and talk to so many people that have been through crazy things, we determine how we tell our story, whether we're. Whether we accept the tough stuff as part of our journey or stay in a victim mentality. And not to say that the attitude can fix all those tough things, but each day we get a chance to be better than we were the day before. If we believe that we own our story and want that outcome.
- [31:35]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And how was your husband through all of this?
- [31:41]
A
Oh, my gosh, he's such a rock. He's very chill. He's always been very chill. And, you know, he actually really turned off his trauma, I think, and just focused on my healing and helping the kids, you know, and we, you know, we talk about it, he doesn't like to talk about it, but I think all of us, you know, the kids were all really proud that we navigated it. You know, I mentioned that we celebrate the anniversary as Unbreakable Day. Part of that celebration is thanking ourselves and recognizing what we've been through and that tough things do provide growth and that also recognizing the people that help us and then get us through those moments. I think so often when we have these really traumatic moments, everyone thinks, oh, we shouldn't talk about was a bad time, let's not bring it up. I don't want to trigger a memory. But when we don't talk about it and we don't think about it, we don't give our chance, ourselves the chance to have learned from it, to recognize that, yes, it was a really tough moment. But there are ways in which I've grown. There are people that have helped me that deserve my appreciation for how they showed up.
- [33:08]
B
Absolutely. Did he have to go into any therapy for himself or did he kind of just, just work through it on his own?
- [33:15]
A
You know, he went to my trauma therapist with me a couple of times and then he just, he, he's really.
- [33:21]
B
Chill, you know, because it's like, and that's. That even, I'm sure can speak to people who have witnessed something that's traumatic as well because it, it can create this form of just PTSD and fear. And I feel like even that isn't always talked about enough. Like the people that witness something so scary happen, you know, And I mean, that would be scary to see it happen to somebody random that you don't know. So I can only imagine, you know, someone he loves and has spent his life with.
- [33:51]
A
Well, I think, you know, I think there are so many other, you know, he was so deeply in it. There were so many other things surrounding that he's able to remember the positive. And he's very, he's, he's very skilled at that. Right. You know, I think candidly for my kids, there is a lot more trauma around it. You know, I've said my, my daughter had to wash the blood out of my hair. You know, that's really traumatic for a 13 year old. You know, when, when she sees me with crazy messy hair. It's a little bit of a trigger. You know, my, my kids, my 11 year old at the time, my son, he's, who's 18 now, you know, he didn't want to go to school because he didn't want to leave my side. He was afraid of what would happen. You know, they. They all interpreted in different ways. And when I ask them about it now, you know, they just focus on, you know, we're so proud of how we've gotten through it because it was a really hard couple of years.
- [34:52]
B
Yeah.
- [34:52]
A
But we decided, you know, like, actively decided this was going to be a happy story.
- [34:58]
B
Absolutely.
- [34:59]
A
We're not letting this ruin our life.
- [35:01]
B
No, you can't. Because, you know, with anything in life, it's going to do one of two things. It's going to build you up or destroy you. You know, it's. And it's kind of both are hard, you know, whatever path. But it just depends on, I think, how you want to take the things that happen to you and either turn them for good or let them meet you up.
- [35:21]
A
Yes.
- [35:21]
B
You know, what are your theories for the driver? Oh, I need to hear. So did she get in trouble at all?
- [35:29]
A
No. Yes. I, you know, I. I wrote. So I wrote a book about all of this called the Unexpected Benefits of Being Run over, where I talk a lot more about the driver.
- [35:39]
B
But I'll give you.
- [35:40]
A
I'll give you my couple theories.
- [35:41]
B
Please do. Because it's just like. It makes no sense. I can't believe it makes no sense.
- [35:47]
A
So I think that when she first. After she first hit me, she stopped and then accelerated. I think she was trying to flee the scene because she really didn't have car insurance. I think the second time she ran over me, I think she was trying to get back to the pedestrian crosswalk. And I'm guessing the third time she ran over me, she was just trying to get off me. But again, this is what I think. She's never acknowledged the accident or apologized or. Which is a whole nother trauma. I mean, that is. That.
- [36:24]
B
That is horrible.
- [36:25]
A
That actually, you know, really set me off when I first saw the driver after the accident, because after the accident, I actually felt no ill will to the driver. You know, I mean, yes, she was throwing a tantrum and didn't seem to care what happened to me, but, you know, she didn't. It wasn't a hit. You know, she didn't mean to run over me three times. You know, she made a lot of bad decisions, but, you know, sometimes in life we panic, you know, so I didn't feel any ill will towards her. And then I saw her at the courthouse. You know, we had gotten a victim's notice that she Was going to be in the courthouse. So I was there with my husband and my daughter. And you know, I've got a cane and I'm bandaged and, you know, bruises all over my face and big sunglasses, you know, and, you know, and they're kind of carrying me like, you know, helping me walk. And we see her and there's no acknowledgement, nothing, Nothing. You know, and I remember just really emotionally breaking that day. You know, I went home and lost it, like started screaming at my kids and you know, this happy household that we had had was nowhere to be found. I was completely, you know, erratic. You never know, you know, how I was going to react to something or, you know, what mom they were going to see. I mean, you know, the kids that I wanted to be this great mom for, you know, that I felt in many ways kept me alive under that car was just gone. And there was this just horrible person you know, reacting without like the love and compassion, you know, that I want to have as a mom. And, and that moment, I was so distraught. It made me realize I can't. I used to think that I can. I have a strong mind, a good attitude, I can get through this, realized, you know, I'm in trouble. And that's when I actually started on antidepressants and anti anxiety.
- [38:28]
B
Okay.
- [38:29]
A
You know, and that was also the beginning of my recognition, you know, or subconscious recognition that I can't just think my way out of everything. You know, there, there's a, an autonomical reaction and you know, there's. There's a physiological, physiological reaction that I. My good attitude is never alone going to fix.
- [38:56]
B
And that's another, I think, way of you accepting help, you know, just not from a person, but from a medicine. And I think it's absolutely necessary if you. Especially going through something like that. But in general, if you find that you need help, take it.
- [39:13]
A
You know, we do it. You know, if I have knee pain, I'll. I'll take Advil.
- [39:17]
B
I mean. Yeah, exactly, right. It's just, it's. It's no different. It's just your, your brain, you know, and your feelings and emotions, and those are sometimes even harder than physical pain to deal with.
- [39:28]
A
The traumatic, the mental changes have been the hardest for me to navigate through. And you know, also some of those changes have been very rewarding. But the antidepressant, anti anxiety, I actually will often talk about it because, you know, it helped me. It kept me sane, it kept me predictable. You know, I actually, I tried to go off it and Then went back on and I said, you know, why am I struggling for, you know, sort of a floor that is manageable? Like, why am I letting myself crash?
- [40:05]
B
Yeah.
- [40:06]
A
When I can have a much better, you know, floor and ceiling that I can handle.
- [40:10]
B
Right. And I think too, you know, that people have a lot of mixed opinions on medicines. Understandably so with everything, you know, it makes sense. But I agree with you. If you find that something helps you, why fix something that's not broken? You know, if you're able to find this manageable place where it allows you to show up better for yourself and for others, why not? You know, and that's just kind of how I look at it when it comes to things like that. But I. That is terrible that she never said anything. And I think in a way, you know, that's difficult because I think people would kind of find that as a necessary form of closure.
- [40:55]
A
Oh, my gosh. Yes.
- [40:56]
B
Yeah.
- [40:57]
A
Her not acknowledging was. Has really been very painful.
- [41:02]
B
Yeah. And it's hard because it's almost like this little missing piece. But it's almost like you have to get to this place within your own healing where you don't need that from that person.
- [41:13]
A
And I actually have a, you know, a theory or a way that I now have managed through it. So in addition to this woman not acknowledging or saying she's sorry, in traumatic moments at least, I had some preconceived notions about how people who. And how people would show up for me and when some people didn't show up for me the way I thought they would. And what I have realized since is that we really. There's so much we don't know about the people in our lives and we don't know what triggers them. You know, my accident was pretty traumatic. I was, you know, a mess physically. I saw certainly emotionally, like I was a different person and a very hard to look at for a long time. And I think for some people that may have been a trigger. And I've decided, just like with the driver is that their own defenses kept them, you know, their own self preservation kept them from showing up, kept them from apologizing and that's what they needed to do to keep going.
- [42:29]
B
Right.
- [42:29]
A
And so for the people in my life that maybe didn't show up the way I had hoped they would, you know, by choosing that perspective, I've also allowed myself to still enjoy all the times and the good memories I've had with them, you know, and not. Not let their not showing up at this one moment taint you know, sometimes years of. Of, you know, love and laughter I've had with them.
- [42:55]
B
Yeah. And I think, too, it's. It's a very difficult thing because every human is so different. And if we. It's very easy for us to think, well, I wouldn't have acted that way or I would have done this. And there might be a handful of other people, you know, that completely agree with you, but then there's these other handful of people that they don't know how or they just. They can't for. For whatever reason it may be, you know, and they're. Sometimes there's not even an exact reason. They just.
- [43:24]
A
They.
- [43:24]
B
They panic in situations like that. It makes them too uncomfortable, whatever it might be. And I think it's very difficult as a human to get to a place where you can give every different type of person that grace. Because, of course, we want to be. I don't want to say selfish, but, like, when we have people in our lives, we want them to show up in a way that we would show up for them or a way that we think we would show up for them. And when that doesn't happen, I think it's easy to be like, well, screw you, you know, but we are all on our own journeys. And one of the biggest lessons I think I've learned in the last year is, you know, you can't expect the world to stop when something happens to you or when your world stops, you know, everyone else's keeps going. And while that's no excuse, everybody, you know, everybody should check in. I think in a way, it kind of gives you this perspective of, well, just like, I can be selfish sometimes, you know, they are too, and that's okay in their own way. It's like you kind of have to accept that everyone has their own life, and your life will never be as important to them as their own. And everyone's not like that. But I think a lot of people are. And I think that for me, that's been something that, you know, when I find myself thinking or getting upset of, like, oh, why didn't they do this? Or why did they do that? It's just a. Kind of a nice reminder to be like, okay, well, they're on their own path and their own journey and. And don't take everything so personally.
- [44:54]
A
And you're giving yourself grace. Yeah.
- [44:56]
B
Because when you hold on to it.
- [44:58]
A
Right.
- [44:58]
B
It doesn't do you any good. No, it'll just eat you up and make you upset.
- [45:03]
A
Yeah. And, you know, and. And I think when we reframe it like that, you know, we also make ourselves feel stronger.
- [45:12]
B
Yep.
- [45:12]
A
You know, like, I talk about letting, you know, also letting people help. You know, that's something that I learned. I look at accepting help now as actually a dimension of strength because it's about me and it's about them, too. And when you sometimes, for so many of us that are used to being that type A, in control, always doing things, when we recognize that our own actions sometimes are helping others and we can reframe it, it's a win, win.
- [45:43]
B
Yeah. And a lot of people don't realize that being vulnerable is so much stronger than not being vulnerable because you're open. You're opening yourself up to all these emotions and opening yourself up to being able to get hurt in a sense. You know, like when we're closed off and we're strong, we're not letting anyone in. We're just like me against the world. I can do everything, you know, So I think it leads us to more disappointment if we are vulnerable. But I think it's a way of once again balancing it and figuring it out. How long did it take you to recover fully, would you say? Physically?
- [46:19]
A
So physically, I went back to work after a couple of months, which wasn't the best idea, but I really, you know, I wanted.
- [46:26]
B
At least it wasn't that Thursday.
- [46:28]
A
No, it wasn't that Thursday.
- [46:29]
B
Right.
- [46:31]
A
I did take a couple months. Not as long as my doctors had wanted me to, but I really, I really was determined to, you know, get back to life. And, you know, I was actually determined to get back to life with this, you know, as this human that was going to be more vulnerable and share and, you know, let people in. And I'll be honest, I got back to work and I forgot all of that. You know, I tried to be the person I was before, but I wasn't that person. I wasn't that person mentally, and I wasn't that person physically, you know. In fact, I, you know, was working in New York. I couldn't cross the street. You know, I was having panic attacks, you know, and when I, you know, shared it, and honestly, I had no choice because. But to share it. Nobody thought of me as less than, you know, I was worried that I wasn't good enough anymore, but nobody looked at me as less than it was. Okay, so, you know, you panic when you cross the street. I'll bring you lunch, you know, And I. I needed 18 hours of sleep then. My body was still healing. I couldn't stay awake through the Day, Maybe not. Yeah, like, actually, it was like 16 hours, not 18.
- [47:44]
B
You were like a cat.
- [47:45]
A
Yeah. Yes, I was like a cat. And so staying awake all day in the office was nearly impossible.
- [47:51]
B
Right.
- [47:52]
A
So, you know, my colleagues would sometimes book a conference room for me to go take a nap. No one looked at me as less than right. You know, they. They. They helped me, and they also started sharing with me, just like people did it personally. And my relationships grew stronger. And, you know, at work, as I had those strong relationships, we were tackling tougher problems and different problems. And, you know, as I mentioned it, it, oddly enough, helped my career.
- [48:19]
B
Absolutely. So what do the butterflies represent?
- [48:24]
A
Oh, you know what I love about butterflies? That saying of the ripple effect of a butterfly. I really love that and like to be reminded of that. So. One thing I've noticed, talking about my story and just living with and offering more appreciation is that those little moments really are so impactful. If you're line getting a coffee, you know, and the person in front of you smiles or you smile, you'd be surprised at what an impact that can have on their day.
- [49:02]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [49:03]
A
You know, a compliment or holding the door, you know, just those small acts of kindness or appreciation have a really big effect.
- [49:12]
B
They really do.
- [49:13]
A
And I started to, you know, one certainly feel that from under the car. But I also started to notice those things more as I slow down. So, you know, a lot of my tattoos are things that I don't want to forget, like, lessons that I learned during this journey that I just don't want to forget because, you know, again, I'll say, like, I'm not all of a sudden enlightened. You know, I still have so much to learn, but I'm always healing. I'm always learning, you know, and I don't want to. You know, I was really lucky to have survived this and to learn all the things that I learned. I want to live the next, you know, however many, you know, years ahead, you know, with the. The insight of being that better person.
- [49:54]
B
Yeah. And continuing to grow. No, I had to ask because I saw the shirt, the tattoo, the necklace. I was like, the butterflies have to represent something. I love it, though. It's. It's a very, you know, just peaceful vibe. And I have a butterfly of a tattoo. I remember what's about my aunt. She. She's very religious, and she told me that she had a word for me, and she was like, can't remember now. It's been years, but since when I got it. But she said, whenever you're basically whenever you're having problems, just think of yourself as a butterfly, like soaring above all of it. And I just loved that analogy. I think it's so freeing and peaceful to think of. So that's why I. Oh, no, I love that too.
- [50:35]
A
But I. And I also actually love the. The metamorphosis.
- [50:39]
B
Yeah.
- [50:40]
A
You know, just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a beautiful butterfly.
- [50:44]
B
Exactly. And then with your book. Do you have one book or I.
- [50:48]
A
One book.
- [50:48]
B
One book. Are you dying with books? Well, yeah, for now.
- [50:52]
A
So I had no intention of writing a book, even though I, you know, I was in. I have a bachelor's in English and a master's in journalism.
- [51:00]
B
Yeah.
- [51:01]
A
You know, it's not what I do, you know, as my day job. But, you know, we. I did want to pay it forward. And in the beginning, you know, I would just share the insights and lessons I learned with, you know, my community of friends. We'd have an Unbreakable Day party and thank everyone, you know, that was. That helped us through. And then when Covid happened, we were all in lockdown. I started to feel that the things that I learned, you know, might be helpful for other people as well. And so I actually wrote. There's a. The last section of my book is called the Sermon. And, you know, those are my life lessons, things that I don't want to forget. And, you know, I would have loved to have just sort of put that out in the world. Here are my lessons. But I realized that my lessons aren't really as meaningful if you don't know my story. And so the book makes it more impactful. Yeah, it does. So the book actually talks about, you know, it's a memoir, self help book, but it delves into my first transformation or life victory, which was navigating as a really insecure child. And when I say really insecure, I mean really insecure. I tried to take my own life when I was 16. I was really not happy with who I was. I just wanted to look like everyone else. Being the only different looking person, you know, in my town really, you know, really was. Was hard. Especially with comments like I had, you know, one of my first boyfriends said to me, said, you know, every guy would think you were so beautiful if you were white. And you know, like comments like that, which I knew that he didn't mean it quite as horribly as it sounds.
- [52:54]
B
Sound. It is horrible.
- [52:56]
A
It's horrible. You know, it just kept me from being comfortable in my own skin.
- [53:02]
B
Right.
- [53:03]
A
You know, so the. The. The memoir talks about, you know, that, you know, me becoming a person I liked.
- [53:09]
B
Right.
- [53:09]
A
And then, you know, the. The trend, the second transformation after the accident.
- [53:14]
B
And look at you now. You know, to compare it, though, just of. It's like you were in this little shell, you know, and now you're just this truly blossomed butterfly, you know, because you. You're just so. You. Your energy is just so light and positive, and you. You do come across as very confident and very confident with who you are. And that's an amazing energy to have. You know, you can feel those things when you walk into a room.
- [53:43]
A
Well, thank you. That's. That's very sweet of you to say. Actually, one of my girlfriends said to me before I went to college, you know, we were talking about, you know, go to college, and you kind of reinvent yourself. And she said, you know, if you don't like yourself, you know, why should anyone else like you?
- [54:00]
B
Right?
- [54:01]
A
And I loved. You know, I think that's such an insightful, so true phrase. You know, it took me a long time to like myself, but, you know.
- [54:09]
B
It'S a good reminder.
- [54:10]
A
It's a good reminder.
- [54:12]
B
Yeah, because it's so true. They even, you know, even with relationships, somebody can't give you the love that you can't even give yourself. And you deserve all of that love, and you deserve all the grace.
- [54:23]
A
And we own our story.
- [54:24]
B
Yes.
- [54:25]
A
You know, and each day I actually saw this on my Instagram. There was this little cartoon. It was like, Snoopy and Charlie Brown. And Charlie Brown says, you only live once. And Snoopy says, you only die once. You live every day. And I love that, you know, and it's again, a reminder, like, if you're not happy with the way the story is going, remember, we have the power to reframe it. We choose the words we use about how we talk about the things that happened. Is it part of our journey or are we a victim? Are we being kind to ourselves? Are we using positive language and building positive energy? That's all up to us, you know, and I don't want to sound like I'm oversimplifying it, but, you know, in some ways it is. It is simple.
- [55:19]
B
I think it's. I think it's very simple. It's just the fact that it takes time to get there. You know, it's a process. I think the first step always is being self aware and knowing these things and acknowledging it. And then I think once you do, it always is in your head. Once you think of It. You can't really get it out of your head. So then it's just every day kind of reframing it. And I think, too, it's not really about that, that first initial thought we have, because of course that's going to be our old way of thinking or who we've been for years. But it's almost like having that thought and then correcting it within our own mind and being like, wait a second, I don't want to be that way anymore. I don't want to have those thoughts anymore. How can I reframe this? It is so much of just reframing in our own minds. Our minds are so powerful.
- [56:07]
A
Oh, I'm so glad you said that, because you reminded me. So it's also having those people around you that help you reframe. When I talk about how I've changed at work, I worked at Google for a few years, and at Google, you do this thing called a user guide. You talk about how you like to work with other people. And I remember building my user guide and thinking, okay, if you worked with me before 2018, this is what I was like. And then I put this column next to it, and the first things I wrote on it were, I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do this. And my, you know, one of my best friends said to me, she's like, let's rephrase it.
- [56:47]
B
Yeah.
- [56:48]
A
And sometimes I need that help, too, you know, and then I rephrased it and, you know, I said it to myself differently and I interpret it and I feel it, and, you know, I am that positive column now.
- [57:01]
B
Yeah. And that's with anything.
- [57:03]
A
Yes.
- [57:04]
B
I think it's. And changing our words. That's. I hear that all the time. And it's so important. We don't realize that the words that we speak out, it really does have a direct effect on us and those around us. And I think, too, whether it's a person that's reminding us or a book or whatever it might be, those reminders are needed because at the end of the day, we're still human. We're still living in this crazy world that's not stopping for anyone. It just keeps going. So.
- [57:32]
A
And it can be hard.
- [57:33]
B
You know, we have, like I was saying before, we are always gonna have days where we might be more down or more sad or kind of fall back a little, but I think it's about just setting ourselves up to get right back up and not stay at that low place. And that's I think, where the change happens.
- [57:49]
A
Yeah. And you know what? Also, and letting people in on the journey.
- [57:53]
B
Yes.
- [57:54]
A
So when you have those tough moments, they can remind you of what you.
- [57:58]
B
You have your army around you.
- [58:00]
A
Yeah.
- [58:00]
B
And it's important. And you have. Thankfully, you had that, you know, with your family and. And then all the people that you let in. And I think that's such a beautiful thing, too, because relationships are so important. It teaches us so much about ourselves and about the ones around us. And I'm sure the people that you did let in and when they were able to open up to you, I'm sure that meant so much to them and they got to see a different side of you, too, you know, like being so closed off, it doesn't allow, I think, our true authentic selves to shine. And people deserve to see that. You know, we. It's. What's the fun if we keep it. Yeah. What's the fun if we keep it to ourselves? You know, so you'll have to send me all of your links to everything, your book, everything you want so that I can put it in the description so people can find it and get it.
- [58:46]
A
Thank you.
- [58:46]
B
Of course. But I mean, you're. You're incredible. And I'm so seriously. And I'm so glad that you are sitting here.
- [58:53]
A
Oh, thank you. Beautiful.
- [58:55]
B
Perfect. You would never know.
- [58:57]
A
Well, you know, and actually, maybe it's a final point. You never know. Like, no one looks at me and says, wow, she's run over.
- [59:04]
B
Don't read a book by its cover.
- [59:06]
A
You have no idea. Don't judge a book. Yes.
- [59:08]
B
Read a book. Judge a book.
- [59:10]
A
Don't do either.
- [59:10]
B
Buy its cover. Yes. You really would never know.
- [59:13]
A
No, no one looks at me and says, wow, she's got a traumatic brain injury. You know, she can't. She can't juggle things.
- [59:20]
B
So with the traumatic brain injury, do you still have, like, some aftermath things that you deal with with that?
- [59:26]
A
Yeah. I mean, there, you know, there are, you know, things with how I operate at work and I guess just life in that I can't handle. I can't multitask or juggle like I. Like I used to or I can't, you know, there. This is going to sound crazy, but I can't handle unexpected paperwork.
- [59:46]
B
Okay.
- [59:46]
A
You know, I actually don't listen to voicemails anymore. You know, there's this. I have it almost like a panic attack when people put the burden of something that I'm not expecting.
- [59:58]
B
Okay.
- [59:59]
A
And as strange as it is, a voicemail Like, I worry about what I'm gonna hear in the voicemail. I know it's so silly, and I can't explain it, but right after the accident, I couldn't listen to voicemails for a couple of months. You know, I can't have music playing on more than one speaker. You know, I can't do lights, flashing lights and sounds, you know, certain exercise classes, and certainly, you know, no clubs or concerts or, you know, so they're. They're all changes that, you know, don't keep me from having a happy life. Yeah, but they are changes because we used to have music playing on every room in our house. You know, my husband used to. And I used to go to concerts regularly. So they're little. You know, I call them little things. There's a new normal, but there's a new normal.
- [60:47]
B
Wow. Right? And once again, it's things that you wouldn't even see or know on the outside.
- [60:53]
A
Yeah. Like, you know, I might be out with people from work, and they'll say, oh, do you want to go to this, you know, this club or this bar or this, you know, concert? And I have to say no. And also do it in a delicate way where nobody feels that, you know, they've left me out, but I physically can't, you know, anymore. And so I often talk about. Actually, when I start meetings and things at work, I will say, you know, I will share. You know, I have a traumatic brain injury. You know, I can't, you know, where I used to be able to, like, barge in and ask my question. I'm not as comfortable doing that. And I've recognized that people have different styles of communicating. You know, maybe you want to raise your hand. Maybe you don't know where to barge in. You know, maybe you do want to just jump in. Maybe you need to send a note like. And I've started kind of recognizing and alerting people to. We all have different ways of communicating. That doesn't mean I don't want your voice to be heard.
- [61:49]
B
Yeah, that's so true. Well, you did amazing.
- [61:53]
A
No, thank you.
- [61:54]
B
Seriously, was there anything else that you wanted to add or include any other parts of your story? And I like to ask, because I don't want people to feel like they.
- [62:04]
A
Didn'T get to appreciate that, you know, so. So sometimes. So one of the things that I realized so I mentioned, I don't like voicemails and questions. And when I was recovering and people would ask, say, how are you? Which sounds like such an innocuous question. It would Actually send me spiraling because I wanted to be honest and vulnerable and share with them, but I don't want to be a downer.
- [62:32]
B
Right.
- [62:33]
A
And then I didn't want to just say things are fine and they're not fine.
- [62:39]
B
Yeah.
- [62:39]
A
And so I would. You know, when they would ask me that question, how are you? I would start, like, spinning out. Like, how do I answer this? And I realized that when someone's in trauma now, when I'm trying to show that I care, I'll just say I'm thinking about you, you know, sending good vibes here if you need me. But not ask a question. Just sort of put the statement of. Of, you know, goodwill out there.
- [63:05]
B
Right. Like, show them like, I'm here. Yes. If you need to talk. Yes. Or if you need anything or even just company rather than. Yeah, I think I've heard that before, too. Of. Kind of. Just because people don't think about it, they're probably like, oh, well, like, I asked how they are, and. Yeah. And you don't. You don't really think about how somebody might react. Because the thing is, too, is, I think that there's no set time on healing for anybody. So it could also be that if somebody asks you that, you know, three months down the road, you could feel like in your head, well, I should be fine by now, but I'm not. And then it's just. Yeah. It is its own spiral and frustrating thing. I feel like for someone, even within themselves. Yeah.
- [63:46]
A
And actually, you know, like, three months down the road, people would say, are you 100% now? And, you know, I always wanted to say, well, it's. I'm different now.
- [63:54]
B
Yeah. You know, that's an odd one. I've never heard that one.
- [63:57]
A
Oh, my gosh. I got that question a lot. Really?
- [63:59]
B
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Cause it kind of goes back to what I was saying of people are just so different. You know, it's like those people that will ask things like that, and you're like, you know, I just would never ask that question. But yeah, you know, it's interesting. And I think too, you know, just kind of piggybacking off of that kind of what we were saying before. You just can't take things personally sometimes. Because some people, they could have, like, no ill intent with what they say, and it can just come off so bizarre or like, why would you ask that? Or, you know, something like that. And it's just kind of like, you kind of just have to brush it off and be like, you know.
- [64:33]
A
Yeah, it is sort of.
- [64:34]
B
Everybody's going to say something in their own way that we're probably going to question and be like, why did they ask that? Why did they say it like that?
- [64:41]
A
But, oh, I think, you know, probably just the last thing that I want to, you know, that I hope everyone takes away is just a reminder that we own our narrative. You know, we choose our words. You know, we get to decide if we want to be kind to ourselves. And sometimes that kindness is, you know, is really hard to offer and accept, for sure. But, you know, as we decide to tell a happy story, believe that we can have a happy story, you know, we also give ourselves the opportunity to, you know, see a brighter future and to get out of a stuck moment. You know, people often ask, what do you do when you're stuck and you're right in the middle of the trauma? You know, sometimes, you know, it's a journey. But if you believe that the journey can have a happy ending, you know, that in itself is a. Is a victory.
- [65:37]
B
Yeah. And I think, too, as. As traumatic as that part of your story is, I think the overall growth throughout your life is so beautiful, and I think that is the biggest thing that's worth sharing. I feel like the traumatic aspect is your story is kind of like, not even the starting point, but that's kind of the jab that it's like, all right, are you listening? You know, and then it's kind of like this whole beautiful story of just growth. And there's so many aspects of your story that people can relate to in so many different ways. You know, feeling like they're an outsider or they don't fit in because they're different, which is so. That's always been one of the craziest things to me, because I've always been somebody that, like, I'll look at people, you know, and I'll just be like, they're so different and unique. Like, I wish I looked like that, you know, like, yeah, I'm just white. That's like. And it's so funny because I feel like everybody wants what they don't have. Have in a way, you know, so well.
- [66:33]
A
I think everyone just wants to feel connected, too.
- [66:36]
B
Yeah. But also, I just. I don't think there's enough spoken out about. About. I almost feel like that all of this is just a shell, you know, where we come from, what we look like, none of that really matters. And I think that a lot of, like, everybody's just. A lot of times people are just so vain. And everybody wants to look perfect. And understandably so, especially when you're a woman. It's like, we want to look good, we want to feel good. And it makes us feel good when we look.
- [67:04]
A
It makes us feel good. Yes.
- [67:06]
B
It makes you feel confident, and all those things are good and healthy. But at the same time, I think it's about once again that balance of finding that at the end of the day, that's really not what's in here, and it's not the most important. You know, we can connect to people from all different walks of life, all different backgrounds, all. All different everything, you know, And I think that that's the true reminder in that as well. But we can also acknowledge the beauty in everyone, inside and out. And you are so beautiful. Seriously, you should know that. Of course.
- [67:39]
A
And I like to say, you know, like, Kintsugi breaking doesn't mean you're broken.
- [67:44]
B
Yep. I love. I want to do that. Are there places that there are.
- [67:48]
A
I've never done a Kintsugi class. I've actually done my own. Like, when something breaks at home, I actually.
- [67:53]
B
Right. I really want to do. That would be. I just feel like that's such a peaceful, therapeutic.
- [67:59]
A
Yeah.
- [67:59]
B
Thing to do.
- [68:00]
A
I love. It's such a beautiful metaphor.
- [68:02]
B
So beautiful. I love. I'm going to look into that. Seriously. Thank you so much. You did amazing.