A (14:39)

But that's what I was gonna ask, like, at this point, was this family still a part of your lives?

B (14:43)

Probably every now and then, like, we were really close when I was younger, but at some point, the church that we went to, like, before we went to this bigger, like, cult church, we would visit their church, and it, like, split at some point, and then we didn't really visit them anymore. It was maybe every once in a while, like, family gatherings that we would see them. But I kind of dealt with all of that stuff. And it wasn't as hard for me in high school because we weren't around them as much. But I was still, like, dealing with that on my own, you know, I'm sure we still had some sort of contact in the family, and she immediately started telling everyone. The news, you know, got out that such and such happened with this guy and we wanted justice. So the rest of my high school years was going through court hearings, and I'm pretty sure I would, like, miss school and stuff at some point. My friends didn't really all know what I was going through. Eventually I would tell them, and they just kind of were like, oh, you know, none of them really, like, understood. And again, I just felt so lonely. I felt so weird once people started finding out. I felt, like, disgusting. Did you feel like a weight lifted.

A (15:49)

Off your shoulders at all when you.

B (15:50)

Told your mom or.

A (15:51)

Not really.

B (15:52)

I almost want to say that I felt more of a weight lifted off when I told my boyfriend at the time.

A (15:57)

Okay.

B (15:58)

Just because it was, like, out there, the first person. But then I pretty sure I just was, like, riddled with just, like, stress. Like, the fact that I have to, like, deal with this all the time and hear about it and relive it. By this point in high school, when I had told him and my mom, I had already kind of, like. I had already been, like, processing it and, like, reading into it and looking into it. I got very protective of all my, like, little nieces and nephews. I have a sister that is six years younger than me and a sister that is 17 years younger than me. So I'm the oldest of three in a Hispanic family. Already, like mama bear. Very protective. And I just kind of handled it in my own ways, but it was extremely stressful and uncomfortable dealing with that. Especially in high school. You're going through so many changes and emotions. And then having to sit through court for years, like, explaining the story, the very, very vivid, disgusting details of everything over and over. I got to tell this cop, got to tell that cop. I got to tell this lawyer. And I just. I kind of, like, shelled up at points because I, like, didn't want to talk about it anymore. I was just like, I. I was in a room like this, like, at some points, I was in a room that felt like a jail cell. It was just, like, so sterile and so, like, these strange men that. I don't know, like, having to tell that over and over. Since I had grown up in all of those talent shows and singing, this family was always there as a support. We had photos to show the cops and everything that, like, this is proof. Like, she's not making it up. She's not lying. Like, look, here he is, like, holding her in his arms. Like, it's very possible that he would have molested her because he was around us all the time. When I was around nine years old, that was the very last year that I was involved in the talent show because I was going to private school, and I couldn't do these talent shows anymore. And this man and his wife were getting married, and they were like, we want Jenny to sing in our wedding. And I remember being like, no, I don't want to. And I would tell my mom, like, I don't want it. She's like, what are you talking about? You're obsessed with singing. You're always sing. You're singing for the wedding. And I was just like, no, no, I don't want you. And it was so out of character, which is like, a huge point in, like, picking up on. If your kids are going through anything like that, like, they're not going to want to do things that they love. They're going to be very, very standoffish to things that they would normally enjoy, kind of be more shelled and stuff like that. And that was what was happening to me. I just, like, wanted nothing to do with singing in this wedding. And the song that I sang for my talent show when I was nine was from this Moment by Shania Twain, and they wanted that in their wedding. And I was basically kind of forced to sing in their wedding. So at nine years old, I am singing from this moment as this man who walks down the aisle on his wedding day with his wife in his arms or, you know, whatever, and in front of all of their family. And I just remember being like so happy to be singing and so like embarrassed because I just felt like people could see right through me almost. And that was like a huge, huge. I don't know why, but it was like a huge moment in my life that like, I've always wanted to sing and I made it my business in the future, but I had to like kind of make it past this like terribly trauma, traumatizing day that I had to sing in this man who molested me. His wedding. And so through all of these court cases that we went through, he's sitting in front of me pleading innocent. And he had already had a past of molesting his niece. So in my court case when they were asking for my testimony, I really wanted to touch on like to the jury. He's done this before. When I came out about my story, his niece that he had done it to, he. He did it to me first. But she was young, a few years later and came out to her family about it right away. So this is already on his record. He's a registered sex offender. This is a well known fact. And I was not allowed to say that they could not bring up his past at all. They had to judge him as if nothing had ever happened, which I think is stupid. I don't, I don't know if the legal system is still like that. I don't think it should be. But basically none of the jury, except for one woman, believed me. And I thought I was like kind of past this and like healed from it, but it's still. It makes me so angry because I'm 16 years old telling these details in front of like all my friends and family are there. My. I was dating a different guy at this time, but my ex boyfriend who had me open up to my mom was there for me in support. My current boyfriend is there. I'm like mortified, but I was so like over it that not even this like the tearing up that I'm doing now, nothing you got from me. I was very unemotional. I like read my statement. It was a very passionate statement, but I wasn't crying enough. So no one in the jury like believed me. And I know I'm missing some of the details, but that's just how I remember it. And I'll never forget going through the hallway of the, like, city court or whatever and having a woman come up to us and, like, saying, like, she fought and fought, and that's why it was prolonged for so long. Like, it took four years for this court case to be finalized. And I'm pretty sure, from what I can remember, he got away with two years of probation. He's registered sex offender for life. His name is Joel Valencia. And I will say his name because I. People know him out there. I think that it should. I don't think that people like that should be hidden and covered up and protected. But his wife didn't believe me. She thought it was just making crap up. The grandma, like, his mom that took care of us, she knew about her granddaughter being molested by him. But they just were calling me a liar. I'm only after money and this and that. And I'm like, I'm 16. I don't even know what this has to do with money. I don't want your money or anything like that. I just, like, I'm being forced to give this testimony to put a man behind bars who deserves to be behind bars. So he's free and he has a little daughter and stuff now. And it's terrifying to me because he. I'm pretty sure they're still, like, involved in church. And churches are such, like, petri dishes for these types of people that it terrifies me. But that just made me feel even more lonely and, like, misunderstood. And at this point, I am a senior in high school, or I might be out of high school, but basically I met my. I call him my once upon a husband. My ex husband, also named John, also a Pisces, all three of us. But I met him my senior year. We. We kind of knew each other from the church growing up. We went to the same church. Our families all knew each other and stuff. And to him in high school, I was like the dream girl. I was just, like, so funny and so this and so that. And he was, like, obsessed with me, like, in love. And I thought he was cute, and he was tall and hilarious. Like, we were both class clowns of our. Of our class. But my previous boyfriend, John, it was a forbidden relationship for three years. And I just, like, I couldn't do it anymore. We have this thing called the Valentine banquet in our school. We don't have prom or dances or anything like that. And we were very, like, covered, like, head to toe, very modest. There was no music, no dancing, nothing. Like, you just go to dinner, you Take some pictures and then like, it's done. And it's my senior year and I had never been. So my ex husband John asks my at that time current boyfriend like, can I take Jenny as friends to this Valentine banquet? And he was like, okay. He gave him permission to like take me. He's just like, don't be taking any pict. Like I don't want you guys like flirting and stuff like that. I'm like, no, no. Like I thought he was cute and everything, but he's two years younger than me. Like, ew. My boyfriend's two years older. He's so much cooler. I'm in love with him at this point. So he asks me to take me as friends to this Valentine banquet and we go. It was great. It was fun. His sister and my brother in law, which was a old crush of mine in junior high, ended up going with us to the banquet together. So like the four of us were hanging out and when I got back from this Valentine banquet, my current boyfriend John was like, I don't believe you that you weren't doing anything. I like, he was just like worried that we were like flirting and I don't, I don't know that, like, whatever. And it really was like, genuinely, it was nothing to me. Like I just wanted to go to this banquet and somebody was willing to take me as friends and I was hanging out with his sister and our friend and it was a good time. But my boyfriend didn't believe me so he broke it up and like we never got back together. And like, that was that. So I'm like, okay, in high school and a few months go by, like, John T. Is my high school. The first boyfriend, John H. Is the, the later one. I know it's very confusing, okay.

A (25:10)

I'm following along.

B (25:11)

John H. And I start getting like closer as friends and hanging out, yada yada. We end up dating by like the end of my senior year. It was the day before my birthday that he asked me to be his girlfriend. And he was very into like penguins. He loved penguins. And he was just like, we were, we were really cheesy, you know, we're in high school. And he was like, did you know that penguins like mate for life? And I was like, oh, no, I didn't know that. He's like, yeah, will you be my genguin? And so that's kind of where my like username on everything started. The genuine thing. I was just like obsessed with penguins and stuff because we were each other's penguins. We're Gonna be together for life or whatever. But all that to say, like him and I also bonded very, very strongly emot like once we actually started dating and liking each other, it was like, it was bliss. It was, it was perfect, it was fun, it was real, it was raw. Getting close to him, he knew everything about my past. Like I told him about all the stuff that I had been through and more time passes, I'm finally graduated from high school and I move in with his family. Cuz all throughout my teenage years, like another part of why my mom was like, you're just out of control, I can't control you. I would run away like when I was 13, 14, 15, I would like pack my bags, get on a plane, go to California, live with my aunt for a few months. Like I just hated being home. I could not stand being home and I wanted to move out so badly. So once we were old enough, I moved in with his family in his house. And it was like having this whole new dynamic, a different family. Like their parents didn't argue in front of me, he had these siblings that were like closer to my age and friends were allowed to go to their house. So it was just like I was like free. And I had this person who knew everything about me. Every deep, dark secret stuff that I still had never told anybody to this day. And he was just such a big support and a rock in my life that nothing could ever go wrong. This man worshiped the ground that I walked on, treated me like a queen. We grew up together, we struggled together. Eventually we got our own apartment and everything that we did was him and I against the world together. Like so much fun. We ended up going through both of our parents. I'm pretty sure it was the same month, same year. Both of our parents divorced. So we went through that together. And both sides, my parents and his parents, had to do with infidelity and cheating. And I just, I will never forget like how many conversations we had that were like, like why would they do that? Like the one family is destroyed, like his family is like all their kids, like their family seemed so well put together and, and everything and like that's being destroyed. And then my family struggling and instead of getting actual help and like counseling and therapy and stuff, they're getting help and counseling from the church. Those people are coming into our homes. And my dad would go to work, my mom would go to work, they'd make a paycheck, throw it down on a table and someone from the church would be like, okay, we're Handling all your. All your finances. This is how much you're going to spend for groceries. This is how much you have for laundry. This is how much you can spend on going out or whatever. Like, they had complete control of everything. And I can't imagine, like, as a grown man, somebody coming in and telling you what to do with your money and your family like that. But that tore my family apart. And just looking from our perspective at our parents and how, like, disastrous everything was, we were, like, never. Like, we want something different. We want something better. Like, we are literal best friends. We do everything together. And, like, why would we ever destroy our families like this? And at this point, we're together, like, five years. We have our apartment. And this whole time, like, I've always kind of been active on social media and things like that. I had a YouTube channel. We started a podcast together that was supposed to be, like, me and him, Instagram. Like, I would share everything, but, like, the good and the bad, like, no relationship is perfect. I mean, mine seemed perfect in my eyes, but everybody has problems, and I wanted to seem real and raw, and I'm very open and vulnerable, and I don't want to come off as, like, one of those, like, phony. Yeah, you know, oh, yeah, everything's perfect. Kind of like, people knew, like, oh, yeah, there's. There's stuff that goes on with Jenny and John, but at the end, like, they're. They're always together. They figure it out. Like, we were such good teammates and partners in everything that we did. There was one Thanksgiving where we were struggling so bad for money, and we were on our way home, I think, from, like, my mom's house or something, and a tire blows out. So we go out, we try to fix the tire. It doesn't. Doesn't work. We're, like, putting down the road, trying to get to the apartment. We're close. The other tire goes out. So we're pushing our car, like, down the road to get home. Like, we were, like, eating ramen for weeks at one. At one time, because we're like, money comes and goes. Like, we. We've got this as long as we've got each other. You know, we. We wanted to make something for ourselves, and we didn't want help from other people. And when you're struggling too, like, it can be kind of embarrassing. And so we. We had this kind of relationship that, to this day, is so embarrassing. So many people, like, looked up to us. We were the party throwers. There was Halloween, New Year's, always at our House. We were. We were, like, I said, like, the fun couple that would go out and just make everybody laugh, bring people together. Like, we wanted to have this sense of, like, home and community because, like, our families were so, like, torn apart that, like, we made a family with our friends. And all of our friends, like, were just like, oh, my gosh, we want what you and John have. Like, you guys are so cute together. You guys are so funny. You guys are so strong. And like my little sisters, I had had, like, little cousins that would just, like, googly eye, like, staring at us because he was so, so good to me. We were just, I guess what people would call, like, the it couple. And. And it's so embarrassing, like, how things turned out at the end, because if I could go back in time and, like, not be that couple, I would, like, give anything for that because, you know, and I know a lot of people, like, say these things too.

A (31:29)

I just. I have my. I. I'm trying to think of where I want to begin, and you haven't even, like, gotten to the part that's gonna make me wanna know.

B (31:36)

You're gonna. You're gonna be.

A (31:37)

You know, I'll be heated, but. No, first off, I'll reply to what you just said of, like, you wish you could go back and not be the it couple. I disagree with you because there are so many people that are in such healthy and good relationships. There are so many movies and books, and there's so many things in life that show these per se, perfect things. And like, you said. Yeah. Like, you. You knew that you guys had your ups and downs, but for the most part, you knew you had it good.

B (32:18)

Yeah.

A (32:18)

You know, and I think a lot of people feel that way. But the reason I said, like, no, you shouldn't look back and be like, oh, I wish I could go back and not be like. Or have people look at me like that. I disagree with that because that's very real. Like, and just because you had that doesn't mean, obviously, that it can't turn out for the worse. And I. I think that. And this is not to be negative because do I think there are loyal people out there? Yes. Do I think the percentage is. Do I think the percentage is, like, 0.5 to 1%?

B (32:53)

Yes.

A (32:54)

I do think it's out there. I think it's very rare. And I don't think that it really comes down to, like, I'm trying to make this make sense, and this might not be the right way to word it, but it's not so much that it comes down to loyalty. I think it comes down to, like you said, every relationship is going to have ups and downs. But you have to be will, like, you have to be, you have to be willing to go into something knowing that, okay, when I hit this down part within myself with this person, like, I have to be willing to fight with this person to get through that.

B (33:30)

Yeah. And that's how it was.

A (33:31)

And like, you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like there's so many different obstacles and so many different layers and levels of obstacles that you go through in a relationship and both people have to fully be in it and fully be willing to stay loyal and faithful and have that commitment and work through it in order for there not to be, you know, all these other things. Because like, yeah, no, you're with somebody for 20 years, it's pretty normal to get bored. It's, we're human. It's, it's human nature to think, oh, this person's attractive or that part. But it's like, in my opinion, if you really love somebody, you're not gonna stick your dick in somebody else and vice versa. Women are just as bad. You're not gonna ride a dick either. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not, not targeting just men.

B (34:14)

We'll get to that. Yeah. The number one selling product of its kind with over 20 years of research and innovation, Botox Cosmetic. Adobotulinum toxinae is a prescription medicine used to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better in adults. Effects of Botox Cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Don't receive Botox cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow and eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Tell your doctor about medical history, muscle or nerve conditions including ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. For full safety information, visit botoxcosmetic.com or call 877-351-0300. See for yourself@botox cosmetic.com but you know.

A (35:17)

I don't, I don't know, like, I guess what I. My Point is, with that is I think it's. It's important that you mention how picture perfect you appeared online and just in general to your friends and family.

B (35:32)

Right.

A (35:32)

And that's what I'm saying to yourself too. Right. And I. Because I think that it goes to show how in reality, I mean, think about it. I feel like for the most part, relationships start off amazing. Like, whether it's just the honeymoon phase or whether it is for a solid 10 years and people are, like, great together and everything's fine, and then things start falling apart. We don't have a prediction of if something's gonna, you know, last for 20 years or for two days or what. Or anything in between, you know, we don't know. But the point is, is I think that it's important for people to know that just because something's perfect now doesn't always, like, doesn't always mean.

B (36:09)

And I don't.

A (36:10)

So once again, I'm not saying this to be negative, but, like, I think it's why it's important for people not to, like, idolize and look up to people in relationships. And because you really don't ever know what's happening behind closed doors. And nothing could be happening behind closed doors right now, but that doesn't mean that it's not going to go bad down the road. You just don't know.

B (36:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (36:28)

And I do think a lot of people are cheaters. I think a lot of people are not loyal or faithful. Like I said, I do think there are some good ones out there. I think it's gotten worse for so many different reasons. And maybe it hasn't gotten worse. Maybe just because social media is bigger now, we hear more about it. I'm not really sure.

B (36:49)

Well, I think everybody's perspective, too is like, once you're in that position, it's like you buy a green car, you start seeing green cars everywhere. You get cheated on, everybody's getting cheated on. Whereas, like, back in the day, like I was saying, we were. We were so looked up to by so many people, but I was never like, oh, thank you. Like, oh, I know. No, I was like, oh, I mean, yeah, I'm glad you guys see us like that. But, like, our relationship is real. Like, they knew our issues and there were stuff that had happened in our past that, like, would have caused stress in a certain relationship, but we always worked through it. And, like, I would. Like I said, I was always very open and very vulnerable about things so that people did know that, like, I know you, like, look up to us. But, like, keep in mind we're not perfect. Like, I always shared stuff like that. And going through what I'm about to get to, what I went through has significantly changed my outlook on couples and relationship and love. Like, I will never look at it the same, which is heartbreaking. Yeah.

A (37:53)

I'm curious to hear what your mindset is because. And it's sad. It's really sad. And I think, too, you know, I am such a hopeless romantic.

B (38:00)

I am, too.

A (38:01)

I love love. I think love's amazing. Who doesn't love love? Like, who doesn't want to fall in love? Who doesn't want to feel the butterflies? And I have had a couple times where I've genuinely. I don't know, maybe once, maybe twice. I don't know, that I can just think of in the top of my head of, like, I was in love with that person. Like, I would do anything and give anything for that person.

B (38:22)

Yeah.

A (38:23)

But was I the best version of myself to that person? No.

B (38:27)

Yeah.

A (38:27)

And were they the best version of theirselves? Mean?

B (38:29)

No.

A (38:30)

So then it kind of like, gives you that dilemma of, like, I think you can really, really love somebody and they could be, like, your soul person in a way. But humans can be evil and they have these, like, animalistic, just. I don't know.

B (38:52)

Yeah.

A (38:52)

Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like. And that's not to say it's not right at all. I don't agree with it at all. But I think that you can love somebody and still hurt them.

B (39:02)

Yeah. Yeah. And it was really bad because. Touching on that a little bit more. You know, I mentioned I was obsessed with Disney, and it's funny because, like, I wish they made Disney movies like they did back in the day still. I mean, I know that they've changed for certain reasons, but at the same time, for me, Disney, the fairy tale and the love and the romance part of it was my escape. Like, you know how Frozen came out? And it's like, about the sister love. She doesn't need a man to save her. Whatever. That's all great and wonderful and everything, but at the same time, the world is so disgusting and icky and can be horrible that, like, why can't I just have my fake little princess Disney movie and, like, be like, oh, love. And, you know, I mean, should somebody, like, be, oh, I need a prince to save me and I need a man to be my hero? No. But at certain points in my life, I felt like that. I felt like I literally have no one to Talk to my friends, don't understand me. I'm embarrassed to talk to my friends. But when you find love in that way, there's something different about that friendship. And John, my ex husband, John. I'm no longer talking about John T. But John was that to me. He was my savior in a way. As in, like, I can be complete. Like when I say a thousand percent myself, like I have. He's seen the best of me and he's seen the literal worst of me. Like, there are parts of me that nobody probably will ever see of me like that again because that's how I was with him. And I was comfortable to be myself. I didn't have to hold back. You know, I. I would freak out at points in my life where I would have panic attacks and like, that is so embarrassing and so like, vulnerable of a place to be, like to be in a full blown panic attack. I don't want anybody seeing me like this. But this is my person. He loves me. He's going to take care of me. He'd help me through it. He'd help me, like, coach me to breathe and hug me when I just need a hug. And like, just having that literally zero percent distrust in this man. And when I say like fairy tale romance in my head, I mean like the, the bare minimum that people are looking for these days. I had that plus a thousand. And like, this is where I get. I'm gonna get a little bit choked up. I would wake up many, many mornings a week to breakfast in bed. He would come to work with my favorite, Duncan, because he knew, like, at a certain time of night, I'm getting tired and I just need coffee. We, the three of us, me, John, and our best friend David. David was in my grade in high school, but him and John were very good friends. We created a band together and you know how I am about music and that's like the second love of my life. To make music with your person and like, write vulnerable lyrics and be in a studio and like sharing your life and vulnerability in that way with someone, you know, that got out eventually to like, the people that we went to school with in the college and was like, oh, they're making bad music. But like, oh, they're so cool. They're like, literally Jenny and John are making music together. And we just had dreams of like performing and, you know, having concerts and that never happened. But like, we would share music on YouTube and it was just like, literally just so much joy. We turned into, like I said, the party house for Everyone. Eventually our friends started getting into relationships and they would still be like, why don't you do what John does for Jenny? Like why can't you? Like I would come home multiple times a week again to flowers on the table. And like I used to not like flowers. But then once you get your own house, you're like, I want to take care of it. I like plants and this and that. And he would, he would just always do something thoughtful for me. I was always doing something for him. Like it was a give and a take. It was never like he was expecting anything. I was never expecting anything of him. We just equally took care of each other. And so in 2015 by, well in 2014, at this point, we're dating for five, maybe five and a half years. We get engaged, I start planning this romantic Disney inspired wedding. So I had each one of my brides represented a different one of the princesses. They carried lanterns instead of flowers, Disney music down the aisle, the whole shebang. Every different, every table of the reception was decorated in the theme of a different movie. So you know, like Snow White just had like all the beautiful. Like it was, it was gorgeous. And I didn't have a photo booth for the morning of our wedding. So the day of the wedding, John is building this giant backdrop made out of two by fours and like hand paint painting once upon a time on it. Like because he knew that it was so important for me to have my stupid photo booth backdrop. And five o'clock on the dot of our wedding day. It's beautiful outside and I'm supposed to be getting out of the van to walk down the aisle. Torrential downpouring rain. Skies are black cloud like tornado sirens. People are late, the food truck is late, my dad is late because it's a horrible, horrible, horrible storm. And that storm lasted till the very end of the night when we packed up the last box into the U Haul. Then it finally stopped. So all this money that goes into my wedding, you know, I'm drenched. Like hair and makeup done for. We got married in the rain because everything was outside. I wanted this fairytale garden foresty wedding. And I'll never forget that night of our wedding. We didn't consummate the marriage because we were in a hot tub together, like looking at each other just like, like sobbing and crying like at the end of the aisle, like I insisted on or when we walked down the aisle, I insisted that I did not want to see each other the day of the wedding. So we couldn't talk, we couldn't see each other. And I was just like, I need to see John. I like, this is horrible what is happening. And I wish I would have embraced it and just been like, we're all getting freaking wet and whatever. It's torrential downpouring rain. Like, just embrace it. But I was, like, freaking out. And we hug each other at the end of the aisle and just, like, sobbing like, oh, my God, I can't believe we did it. Who cares? It's done. It's over. Like, we're married. And then we're crying that night in the tub, like, the hot tub. Like, just, like, going over the. The events, like, how it happened, how perfect everything was. And then the moment that we've been waiting for was just, like, in a sense, destroyed because it was bad. It wasn't just a little bit rain. It was. It was bad. People who are listening who went there know, like, oh, my God, Jenny. John's wedding. But, like, he did, like, so many things. Like, even my proposal in 2014. He knew my love for the Little Mermaid. So we went to this guy's backyard, and he asked them if we could use his pond and his little rowboat. So he carried me down to the willow tree. It was all decked out with Kiss the Girl playing and the little bow we're, like, rowing and that, like, everything was just like, oh, my God, like, how does this guy know everything that I love and, like, gives me? Like, fulfills all my dreams and more. And on top of that, after high school, our church basically raised us to be, like, housewives, secretaries, pastors, wives, things like that. None of our school credits were accredited. Like, you couldn't transfer to other schools and colleges. Like, it was literally like. Like I said, if you look into that documentary, Let us pray. It's. It's crazy. So everybody starts getting married really young, like, out of high school and, like, super, super early in college. So my friends start getting married and slowly asking me to sing in their weddings. So I play and sing acoustic. I play acoustic guitar and sing for ceremonies, and that has just always been the biggest joy and honor of my life. I ended up naming that business of wedding music part of your world music, because it was literally my. My honor to be a part of your world. Like, that is some people's, like, most important day of their life. And to be able to sing someone down the aisle with their dream song and to change it into this romantic acoustic version. Like, I am living my life. Like, we got married pretty young. I was 24 and he was 22. But like I said, we were dating for years. So when I tell people my story now, they're like, oh, well, you guys were young and dumb. Like, and you rush. I'm like, no, we didn't rush. Like, we were together for a long time and went through a lot before we decided to get married. We just happened to meet each other when we were 15 and 17 in high school. But he was extremely supportive of all of that. He would help me carry equipment to weddings, sit there and take video. He would come with me to most of them and help me set up all the equipment, take pictures with the bride and the groom, afterwards, stay at the reception with me. Like, he was literally, like, following me around, supporting my business. And nobody was my biggest supporter but John. Like, he was there for everything. After we got married and like, the few years before, like I said, people start getting married, I'm singing for my friends weddings. Like, some of them are starting to have kids. But we were the couple that didn't have kids. And we could stay out till 2 o'clock in the morning and party and drink and travel. Like, we had been to Mexico, Dominican, Greece. Like, we went to Santorini and Mykonos and everything. We were literally just living our lives. We finally bought our own house. House. We're doing a little bit better at this point, but we were the only friends of our group that had that freedom. So then people were kind of, like, envious of us in that way of like, oh, my gosh, I wish we had your freedom to do this. Like, obviously they love their kids or whatever, but, like, we were fully enjoying our lives being just us two. So we would go to our friend's house, having sleepovers, playing video games all night, taking trips to lake houses, and, like, just traveling and stuff all the time. So when people hear bits and pieces of my story, which I haven't gotten to the big parts, but when they hear bits and pieces of it, they're like, oh, well, you guys didn't have a chance to, like, explore and, like, live in your 20s. I'm like, no, we. We fully did. Like, we were young and we got married years after. We didn't rush into that, but we were taking our time. And we really, really. Most of our relationship, we always wanted, like, four kids. We had all their names picked out, and that was always a dream of ours. But we. The more we were with each other, we're like, we're enjoying this. Like, I like that we don't have to go home and have those responsibilities yet. It's going to be nice once we do get to that point. But people were just like, oh, my gosh, it's so nice. You can stay out till as long as you want with no care in the world or whatever. He did little things, like, I don't know if you've ever seen a guy do this, but, like, you're walking down the sidewalk and they're on the outside and he's on these. Like, that was always just like from the beginning, consciously he did it. And I always was, like, so proud of that. He took care of me. He protected me. He was a provider. He was always. The one really good thing that I will always have to say about John is that he was a very, very hard worker. Like, he was going to go to work no matter what. He rarely missed a day of work because he was going to provide and take care of me. And he would go to work and all of his co workers would just hear about Jenny and here about. And I would. He had pictures of me on his phone all the time. His camera roll on his iPhone was like, full of, like hundreds and hundreds. He was always taking pictures of me sleeping or with our nieces. And just like, literally when I say worship the ground I walked on like he did. I felt like a queen in his world. And his co workers wouldn't know me, so when we would eventually meet, they'd be like, oh, my God, this guy loves you. Like, that's what I want. I want what you guys have. This is like, so sweet, so romantic. Yada, yada. He would draw me baths at night. I. I'm obsessed with taking baths. And most of the nights throughout the week, he would make my bubble bath, set out my wine, my Netflix or a candle and things like that, like, literally took care of me and our only struggle in all of our relationship. And when I say only, I mean besides, like, financial things and little things in a relationship that everybody has, Our biggest struggle was I wanted sex more than he did. And I just always had a bigger drive than he did. And if we ever got into, like, big kind of tumultuous fights, it all stemmed from that. And it is kind of embarrassing to, like, talk about this, but it is what it is.

A (51:41)

Not at all, because that happens more so than you.

B (51:44)

And it crazy because I literally thought I was the only one. No, all of my friends that I talked to, they were like, oh, my husband won't keep his hands off of me. And he's always this and he's always that, and I'm Like I would literally. I mean, he was very effective.

A (51:57)

I think I'm a magnet for those type of men. So don't feel bad, okay? Honestly, I think it's a good thing that like, at least, I mean, in a way. But trust me, trust me. Oh, I've had my fair share with a couple of those types.

B (52:12)

It's bizarre and it's.

A (52:14)

Sorry, but it is, is, I think. Well, you know what, here's what. I take it back.

B (52:18)

Sorry.

A (52:18)

Men.

B (52:19)

It's not that it's.

A (52:20)

I think it's bizarre because we're used to like the idea of like, men are so sexual and it's like the opposite. What guy doesn't want to have sex.

B (52:29)

All the time and that's all they're thinking about. It's just sex, right?

A (52:31)

And I think a lot of guys that I know, they've always said like, oh my God, I would love to have a girl that wants to fuck all the time. You know what I mean? And then it's like, but no, don't feel embarrassed because I swear to you, like, even just a few of my, like, like, you know, short lived flings, it would be like, bro, is your dick broken? I just am confused.

B (52:52)

There's that.

A (52:53)

It's like they either don't want it or their dick's not getting hard. So like then I look to and it's. And that is, that gets frustrating too because then I think that could open up the door of like, is it me? Is something wrong with me? Are you not attracted to me? Like, what is it that you're not. I don't get it. Yeah, but don't be embarrassed because if anybody understands having a higher chance, it's not really embarrassing.

B (53:12)

It's just like, it's frustrating, it's annoying.

A (53:14)

It's like, it's something that I feel like once again, it's one of those things that it's. It's almost like it's the opposite that we hear about. So then when it's that you kind of like. And like you said you had friends around you saying, oh, like my husband can't keep his hands off me, it's kind of like, it does kind of come down to like, well, I can't relate to that. You know what I mean?

B (53:31)

Well, and it's just weird. When I say embarrassing, I just mean it in the sense of like, how does that make any sense when you're talking about how this man treated you and how much he loved you and how much he protected and cherished you. But he doesn't want to have sex with you. Like and not that he didn't or he wouldn't all the time, but like my drive was significantly higher. And once we got married, like, you know, people are like, oh, it fizzles out, people get boring and the girl like loses, stops taking care of her body or whatever. I was the wife. Like I grew up in a Cuban and Mexican household. I was cooking, I studied the cooking. Yes. I did the cleaning. Like I was cooking, cleaning. Like he'd come home and I'm in full on, on lingerie. This is a probably a big part of our story, but at one point in our lives, one of my very close friends and I, you know, girls can have like be touchy feely and stuff, like I've made out with my girlfriends and stuff like that. But we were having fun one night and we came home, we had just got wind and dined by some co workers and stuff like that. And we ended up having a threesome like with my. I think we were maybe engaged or something at the time because cuz yeah, my, my hair was shaved on the side. So I want to say it was either we were engaged or right before we were engaged.

A (54:42)

Okay.

B (54:43)

But we were also always very like open. When it came to come to that, like there was never ever, ever any question of like where are you? Like where. Why aren't, why the aren't you home? Like I was not controlling, we were not possessive. He had that. This, why this like, like this whole story like pisses me off because people want to say these days he didn't have freedom. Like you were with your friends all the time. You had your guy friends, I had my girlfriends. We had our couple friends that like the majority of our 13 year relationship we had this couple friends. The four of us were inseparable. And when they wanted to go off just the two of them, it was just me and my girlfriend. And it was never like any worry or question because like throughout the night he'd be like, hey babe, like still doing blah, blah, blah blah or hey, I'll be home at this time. And he was always home at that time. And it was just like full hundred thousand million percent trust. And so when it came.

A (55:41)

Sorry to interrupt. When you guys had the threesome, were you at that point in the relationship, were you still kind of feeling like your sex drive was higher?

B (55:49)

I think I always have felt that way. So it's funny you bring that up because I actually wanted to mention this in the past, the past with people who have been abused or molested. It can go one of two ways, and I'm sure you've heard it before. You either don't want anything to do with sex and being touched or hypersexual. Hypersexual. And in my case, I was like, I'm gonna control when and how my body is touched. And not only, not only that, but it was just like it opened this realm of sexuality for me as a child that I was very curious this, but I think my body is just like sensitive and. Sorry, it feels freaking good. I'm not gonna sleep around with and cheat and stuff like that. But like, I wanted sex very often. And I think that a lot of that stemmed from being touched and not having control of any of that situation, court and all. I wanted that control. And I was very much so not that type that wanted nothing to do with sex. And so when it came to that time in our lives that we like had that threesome, it was. It wasn't like he didn't penetrate her, like he didn't have sex with her. He was having sex with me and I was doing stuff with her and he was just like involved and like kind of being like, it's funny to say respectful, but like being respectful. And that friend of mine, still best friend till this day. Like, I. I don't want to say her name just to like, for her privacy. But it was never, ever, ever after that an issue with them being around each other. I don't trust her with him. I don't trust him with her. It was never like that at all. It like it happened and then we never talked about it. It was never awkward or weird in front of our friends or nothing. It was just something that we all mutually agreed on and consented on and it was okay. And I didn't have any trust issues with him with other girls after that. There were other instances in our relationship where like, little things like that would happen with our friends and everything that would happen, like they he knew about, I would tell him or like, if I felt bad that I was out with my girlfriends and you know, like, we were just being like touchy feely with like he knew everything. There were instances where I went out with girlfriends and I would get myself in like stupid situations and I would feel guilty. I wasn't like cheating on him or anything, but I would go home and like, I would confess these things and like, I don't want to go into details of that, that stuff because of people involved. I just, I don't want people like, talking or even knowing about that. But like, he, he knew, like, there was never like, secrecy between us. So there was a point in our relationship that is probably also another catapult of like, how all of this happened. But around the time of our engagement, I went out with the same friend, one of my best friends, and another few of our girlfriends. And we were celebrating my engagement and we went to this like, dance club, bar kind of thing on our town square. And we were just like, woo, partying, having fun. Like, all got in the car with this cop. Like, he's like, let me take you guys like on a joy run. So like, we all get in this cop car and we spin around town and we're just like putting our hands and our arms out the windows. Like we're just having a good time and whatever. This cop's letting us do it, so you know we're doing it. So we get out and he's like, okay, the bride's turn. And so my friends are all kind of like, go, go have fun, whatever. And I'm pretty tipsy at this point, probably more than tipsy. I've blocked a lot of this out. But I get into the car with the cop and he stops like down the road. And he was like, have you ever been in a cop vest or whatever? And I was like, no, whatever. I'm like kind of out of it. And he puts his vest over me, like over my arms, holding them down, pushes me into the back of his car. Because I thought we were getting out to. I don't even know what we were doing. We were getting out of the car. So I felt like, okay, like comfortable, I guess, with this cop. And instead of getting. Letting me get out of the car, he pushes me into the back seat and starts like, I'm wearing a skirt. He starts like lifting up my skirt, trying to like, do things to me. All I remember was like kicking the door and the door hitting him and like trying to kick him off of me and being like, no, no. And he was like, oh, come on. And he was like, like at one point his hand was up there. Like, I don't think he like fully penetrated me, like with his fingers, but he was like really, really trying. And he was very frustrated. And in that moment, not only did I regret wearing a skirt that night, I was like, why the didn't I wear pants? Because, like, it would have been a lot harder for him to do anything to me. And in that moment, all I remember was like, oh my God, like, where's his Gun. Like that was the only thing that I can think of because I'm pushing this cop off of me. He's getting visibly angry and frustrated and keeps mentioning like, oh, I let you and your girls fun. Like, why won't you let me have fun? Or whatever. And somehow I got him off of me. And I'm crying at that point. I get into the front seat and I still have this vest over me and I'm like trying to like get myself out of it, but I was like very small at the time. And that thing's heavy. I don't know how to like open it or anything with my arms in there. So he starts speeding down the road and like reaches over and grabs my head and pushes me down and starts opening his pants. And I am literally crying and being like, stop, stop, stop. And I just remember hearing the car like revving like, like so loudly. Like I don't know how fast we were going. I was literally terrified for my life. And he was. It took everything in my body to not bite his dick off because I literally was like, I don't know what he's gonna do to me. And so he's literally holding me. He's like, oh, I gave you a favor. You and your friend's favor. Like, you have to pay me back. So I'm just like there, like kind of half ass, like mouth open, like I'm not giving him a full on blowjob, but I'm like making him feel like whatever. And I think he was frustrated because I wasn't like actually sucking him off and pushes me off of him pissed off, I think because he like didn't come or whatever. But like, I literally so many things in my body, I'm like looking around, like trying to see where his gun's at. Like if there's something in the car that I can grab, like, how do I stop the car? Do I bite his dick off? What if he literally shoots me? We're in the middle of nowhere and we get back to this bar eventually. And all I remember was like stumbling out of the car and he just like drives off. And my friends are looking at me and I'm sobbing, crying, and they're like, what the is going on? And I just like, didn't want to talk about, didn't want to talk about it. And I was like embarrassed and like literally shaking. And I get into the car with my friend and it was a different friend at the time that was hanging out with us. And I kind of told her what happened and she Was like, what? And, like, trying to figure out, like, where he was at, if we could find him. Like, what do we do? Do we call the cops? And I just, like. Like, did not. I was still, like, drunk at this point. Did not know what to do. I was just screaming, take me home. Take me home. And again, there's probably little bits and pieces that I'm missing, but that's the gist of what I remember. I go home, I'm terrified, mortified, disgusted. Like, immediately get in the shower. And I don't know how much time passed. But eventually that friend that drove me home, which I don't really talk to her this day, she sent me a message on messenger. And this is the one situation in my life that I didn't tell John about because I was like, I don't know how to explain this. Like, literally, how the. Do I have to explain this whole thing again to someone that somebody was forcing me into doing? Like, am I gonna have to go to court? Like, how do I bring this up? I was scared that. And I don't know why I was scared, because at this point, full trust with John, like I said, But I was scared that he wasn't going to believe me like, that I just, like, did something with a cop. And I'm like, but if I confess to him and if I tell him, he. He might believe that I'm telling the truth. Because. Because I've told him everything in the past. And why would I. Why. Why would I tell him something that I purposely did behind his back? Like, if I was going out and cheating and doing something with this cop, which, mind you, he was hideous, disgusting, like, not attractive at all. Had a. I knew that he was married and had children, so I would literally never do something like that. And I was like, if I tell him, like, he has to know, like, that I'm telling the truth. Because why. If I was sneaking around, why would I be telling him that? Like, I would probably seem disingenuous or whatever, but I hadn't told him yet. And I don't know if it was like the week after or that weekend or something. My friend who brought me home, she sent me on Facebook messenger a link, and she was like, oh, my God, Jenny. And it was his face, a mug shot. He had been accused of multiple cases of rape in the city of Crown Point. He was a Crown Point cop. His name is Nick. I'm pretty sure he's still in the. In the academy or whatever. So if he's out there, just beware of Nick. I don't know if he was, like, actually sent to jail or something, but I remember something in the article. Like, he was tried and then got time, like, knocked off. I don't remember what it was, but I was like, okay, I'm not going crazy. I wasn't making that up. I wasn't so drunk that, like, I'm losing it. Like, this guy has literally been charged for this multiple times. And she was just like, oh, my God, it's the guy, isn't it? And I was. I was like, yeah. And so I was, like, keeping my phone on me. And there was a time that I was like, okay, this is how I'm gonna, like, tell him. And, like, I have proof to show John, like, that this guy, like, obviously did this to me. And all this time, we don't have passwords on our phone. We're not like, our phone's locked. Like, we go into each other's phones and take pictures and stuff. Like, we don't snoop or anything like that. Everything's completely open. And one day she messages me again about something, and he's like, oh, Cassie's my. Like, messaging you? So he looks and he sees the message, and he's like, what is this? This? And I was just like, my face went blank. And I was like, so there's something that I've been meaning to tell you that I need to tell you. And I don't know what to do about it, but, like, I want to, like, try and press charges and stuff like that. And he was just like, wait, what? Like, he kind of, like, he freaked out. He wasn't really, like, attacking me or being like, oh, this is your fault. He was just like, how. Why would your friends be so stupid to put you in that position? Why would you be so dumb to put yourself in that position? And at the time, I wasn't thinking, like, ew, why would you say that to me? But I was like, I mean, yeah. Like, I don't know why I would think to get in this car with this cop. I'm like, it's a cop. I like, they're supposed to be there to protect us, and I trust them. And he was just like, why? He was pissed off. And I think till this day, like, he, like, literally cannot stand my. My best friend because why did she let me get in that car with that cop? Like, that all could have been avoided if I wouldn't have gone on. But I don't blame her, and I don't blame myself. Like, I know that I probably Would.

A (66:35)

Have gotten in and said, yeah, let's go.

B (66:37)

Yeah. We were literally. And, like, it was harmless fun, and we were all there together. I was like, okay. Like, he's fine. He was having fun with us. Like, how the hell was I supposed to know? So he kind of freaked out about it, and that caused a lot of tension because he was like, why didn't you tell me? And I was like, well, I was. I wanted to tell you, but I didn't know how. Like, I. He reacted pretty defensively and kind of bad about it, but it wasn't, like, horrible. And I was like, I thought you were gonna act, like, much worse than this and maybe not believe me or whatever because of the situation. I'm like, we're about to get married. Like, you hear stories like this. People ruin their weddings and their engagements over cheating and stuff like that. And I was like, I didn't know how to tell you, but, like, literally, look at the pictures that Cassie is sending. I'm like, I'm. I'm not making it up. And then we're reading all these articles like, this guy is literally a sex offender, yada, yada. And we kind of. It, like, fizzled out. And every once in a while, when we would argue, that would kind of come up, because I know as a man, that probably affected him or hurt his ego or whatever the case may be, but our arguments would always stem from not wanting to have sex with me. And it would start like that, and he would just, like, not want to talk. I'm just tired. I'm stressed from work. It was always some, like, excuse, like, I didn't sleep all night or this and that and, like. Like, tomorrow or whatever. And he would push it off and push it off, and I felt so, like, dumb and humiliated and embarrassed, especially if I'm, like, sitting in lingerie. Like, I was mortified. And then sometimes those arguments, I'd be like, no, I'm not done talking about it. Like, can we just at least finish this conversation or come to a compromise and you not just, like, let me leave me hanging when they would escalate and he didn't want to just, like, talk about it, and he wanted to shut me out and show. Shut the doors and stuff like that. That it would lead into, like. Well, the cop thing. This and the this and that and, like. And it would just, like, it slowly, progressively, there were little things that happened that just kind of started getting worse. There was a time where I felt he never put his hands on me, but I felt very uncomfortable In a situation. And I had flashbacks from my childhood. He. I was sitting, like, up against the wall, and he didn't, like, shove me into a wall, but my, like, back was already there. And he kind of put his hands, like, around my neck and pushed me, like, to get me to. To him. And I would. I mean, again, this is some area of my life where I'm not perfect. And I regret, like, I would put my hands on him because I'm like, don't touch me like that. Like, you've never put your hands on me. You're not going to start now. And it would just progress, progress. That argument started from him not wanting to have sex with me. And I just remember my whole childhood. My mom's way of getting my dad to calm down and shut up and leave her alone would be to call the cops. Cops. And the cops were always at our house. Like, the Hammond police knew who we were because they were always there and what now? And I remember them always asking me as a child, do you want to press charges? Do you want to file charges against your dad? And I'm like, no. Like, I just, like, my mom told me to call the cops. She's screaming over there. So I call the cops. And that was just something that I was accustomed to. And I remember this night fighting with John being like, I'm calling the cops so that he'll calm down and we stop yelling at each other or whatever. And they came, they, like, searched the house for a weapon. They found his gun, like, under the bed, which he only had used for, like, target shooting with his friends or whatever. He's like, do you feel unsafe? And this and that and, like, went through this whole thing and that situation, looking back now, years later, I think that really, like, damaged his view of me. Like, I didn't respect him or something. And I never viewed it as that. It was just like a way of, like, what? Like, I called the cops and like, it was to diffuse the situation. Like, that was, like, normal to me. And it had never gotten that bad in our relationship. But it got to that point that I was like, this is literally the only thing that I can think of to do. It's going to calm down, the cops are going to leave, yada, yada. Then they took his gun, and that was his childhood gun that, like, his dad had given him or whatever. So I felt bad. And then every argument would lead up to, like, he would bring that. And then when you call the cops on me, blah, blah. And so there were situations like that where Progressively it was would, you know, get worse and it would just kind of keep blowing up. So at some point around 2016, I would say I started a job at a music school and he started a job at Shillings in St. John. I am just going to throw this out to people who know that company, Terrible, terrible company. Do not work for them, do not buy them, buy from them. They are a family owned Christian business and they care about families and yada yada etc. They absolutely do not. When he started working there, all of the kids that were working there at this point were like mid to late 20s. All of the kids that were working there were like 20, 21, 22. And he starts hanging out with them more and more. And he's hanging out with our friends less, hanging out with me less. And I didn't like how his personality was like changing and becoming. Hanging around these young kids who literally just want to talk about drugs and sex and Tinder and drink. All they would do is drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. When he was at this job, he was just, he would go after work, straight to the bar, I'm cooking, like, hey, when you coming home? I'm gonna be out or whatever. And he wouldn't come home because he was out hanging with these, in my mind, little kids. And like, I don't understand why you would wanna like go backwards in your life when at this point you have a wife, you have a house, you have your pets, you have responsibilities and you're just hanging out with kids who want to like be immature or whatever when you already have that like freedom to like do whatever you want. But it was getting really bad. And at the time my, during COVID my tik tok started blowing up. So I was making money on that, doing like auctions and making music and stuff like that. And so he convinced me to, he's like, hey, if you want to quit your job at the music school, this was a few years later, he's like, focus on your business, focus on your weddings, focus on TikTok, yada yada, and I'll take care of the house. But like I was still bringing in income from social media and stuff like that. And I, I just remember like we were struggling, but he would always be like, we're happy. You're doing what you want, you're chasing your dreams like you do you. And like still like would be this like old John that I knew, supportive and loving. And then the, every now and then all he's out with his friends all night or whatever. At one point His. His niece, Delilah, she was around two years old. She was kind of in a sticky home life situation. It just wasn't good at the time. And we took her in and she lived with us. So I'm basically playing the role of mom at this point and taking care of his niece like, she's my own daughter. And this was during COVID We're in the house, I'm just doing my thing. He's going to work. And I just remember getting so frustrated that, like, your. Your niece and me and stuff are like at home waiting for you, and you're spending all this time with your friends or whatever. And I would break down into these panic attacks because she had such a tumultuous childhood that, like, for me, it was very stressful to like, kind of untrain this toddler from, like, reacting badly to such normal situations. So he'd come home and I'm like on the ground crying. Like, don't know how to control her. Like, she was very, like, she would literally hit me and stuff. Like, obviously, like, she's a toddler, she's not hurting me or whatever. But it was so stressful, like, trying to live with a toddler for the first time in my life. And he would come home and he'd be like, go take a bath. I got her. Take care. And I'm like, okay, this is my normal John. Like, he was out with his friends, but he came home and he's taking care of us. And Covid hit right before my 29th birthday. So, yeah, at this point, we're like a little bit older, in our 20s. And I ended up quitting that job and focusing more on interior designs and stuff like that. And interior design I've always done on the side, like, for my friends and family. I do like their houses and stuff like that. And I would post content. And I'm doing that more now in my life. But I remember asking John to leave his job at shillings. I did not like it. He seemed very stressed. He wanted to have sex with me even less. He was always just tired. And when I wanted to be up, like after work, he would get home so late, and I wanted to talk to him. He. He didn't want to take the time to, like, talk to me and spend time with me because he's just so tired from this work that's draining him. And I'm like, well, if your job is draining you that bad, get a different job. Like, it's affecting our home life. I would ask him to leave this. This job that he had and he wouldn't. And then they would have holiday parties. And spouses are not allowed at holiday parties, which is very strange to me. Like, I work at little small businesses, and anybody can come. Like, you bring your friends, bring your family, whatever. And they did not allow spouses at these holiday parties. I'm like, that's weird. I don't know why. I don't like that. Sure, whatever. Go to the stupid party. And this happened for maybe three, four, possibly even five years, and I freaking hated it. As it progressively got worse with his job, things in the house started falling apart. We were literally, like, our pipes were bursting. Our water heater blew. Like, my mom had to buy us a new water heater. Like, this guy came over, over to fix our pipes, and it was spraying water everywhere. Friends were coming over to, like, squeegee feet of water from our basement into this little drain. Like, it was literally in shambles. And I remember yelling out, being like, you're not home. You won't sleep with me. This and that, and your work and Delilah and yada, yada, and this house is in shambles. And he just screamed out, our marriage is in shambles. And I just was like, what? Like. Like, it really doesn't have anything to do with our marriage. Like, it's just like everything else. And we're kind of, like, sure, like, neglecting our relationship and stuff right now. But, like, I'm trying here. Like, I'm trying to talk to you about it. I don't like to leave things unfinished. So at some point, I started feeling like I was being punished. Like, I was just. Like, he was doing things on purpose to just, like, neglect me and not pay attention. And we would go out with friends. And then I started getting toxic, which, again, I regret doing this kind of thing. But we would go out with our friends, and he would say. They would say something cute, and I'd be like, oh, yeah, when John used to do that or whatever. Or, like, my friends that knew that, like, we weren't having a good, like, sex life. I'd be like. I would mention things, like, in passing, like, to kind of jab at him, and he would get so embarrassed. But I would do it on purpose because, like, you're jabbing me at home and stuff like that, so I'm gonna out you. Like, it started getting very toxic. Like, I'm on both ends. And my problem was I needed to be able to talk to him about it to be done. And if I just vent. I don't need you to even Respond. Sometimes I just need you to listen and hear me out and feel me out. But he started getting to a point where he would scream, shut up. Shut the up. And calling me names. And that was like, the one thing that I told him from the beginning of our relationship, and he never had done done it. I was like, do not tell me to shut up. Because my dad used to literally always tell me to shut up. Like, I would be on the car ride home from school or something and be like. And they'd just be like, shut the up. And I was like, I hate being told to shut up. Don't do that. So he started doing that on purpose to hurt me. So I just felt like I was being punished. And then he was sleeping with me less and less. And I get it, like, at that point, like, how are you going to want to sleep with your partner when there's so much tension? But then when we would make up, it felt. Felt so genuine. He would come to me and, like, deeply and sincerely apologize. He would hold me in the couch and like, I don't know why I do this. He's like, and then I don't know why I, like, hold back from you sexually. He's like, I. I, like, want to put it off and put it off and put it off. And then when we eventually, like, sleep with each other, it's like, it's amazing. We feel so connected. It obviously feels great. Like, we feel so in love and stuff again. And I just question myself, like, why don't I just do this all the time? Like, what is wrong with me? Why am I keeping this from her when it is such a good way of us connecting and stuff? And I would be like, okay, well, yeah, then, like, stop holding back for me. Like, if you can bring yourself to, like, at least be kind and patient or, like, give me a time when it is okay to do it or whatever. But keeping that from me all the time. I started feeling ugly. I started feeling like it's got to be my body, like, covet. I put on a little bit of weight and like, I don't look the same as I did in high school. It's got to be the way I look. It's got to be something to do with me. And I just felt so hideous. I had this big fear I always have of just going to waste. Like, I know how much I have to offer. I know how good of a wife I am. I know how good of a friend I am. And I just feel like it's going to waste in this marriage with this husband that like, seems to not want this and this side of me specifically. Like, and there's no one else out there that I can share this with. Like, this is my personal. And I'm literally withering away and I feel like, useless almost. Eventually, I went on a trip to Houston to visit my best friend and he went with me on this trip to Houston to visit her one year. And when we were out there on that trip to Houston, his Snapchat like went off. And we rarely use Snapchat. And I looked at his phone because our phones were unlocked. And there was a streak with this girl named Carrie. And it was like 50 something day streak. And I was like, what the is this? And he was like, oh, it's Carrie from work or whatever. And he showed me like all the other group chats with all of his other co workers and there were just as many streaks day in a row. Like, he's like, oh, it's just like work stuff or whatever. And I open it up and it said like, cheers, babe, or something like that. And I was like, okay. And so I'm, I think I messaged her and I was like, oh, can you stop Snapchatting my husband? That's weird. And I never saw it again. And that should have been why that wasn't a red flag to me. I don't know. I'd never been through this. So I was like, okay, stop Snapchatting your girl co workers. Like that. That's really weird. And never thought anything of it again. So he just kept going out with the guys even more. There was more tension with, with us when we would go out. And one night we went out with our friends. And I will never forget this right before I found out about everything. We're walking through the bar, we're like out dancing with our friends or whatever. It's the end of the night, we're leaving and I. He's in front of me and I'm holding his hand, walking behind him. And this girl just like almost like out of the dark comes up to me and she's like, he looks really boring. You need to leave him. And I was like, no, that's my man. She's like, like, no, he's not good for you. You deserve so much better. You need to get the away from him. And I was like, who is this random stranger in a bar? Like, because when we were out, girls would come up to him and flirt with him and he'd be like, oh, acting like he's egging him On. He's like, no, I'm just kidding. He's like, this is my wife. She's like, this. This is my girl, whatever. And would show me off and, like, would turn people down by, like, showing them that, like, I was his wife and I was his girl and proud to be, like, in the establishment with me. And so when she did that, I was like, nah, that's my man. I was like, he's good to me. He's this, he's that, or whatever. And she just kept saying, no, like, you need to get away from him. And then she kept saying, like, he's just so boring. And I'm like, how did. This girl literally doesn't know what she's talking about. Like, okay, weirdo, she's drunk. So we left and like, that hit me years later. I was like, that is so weird. One day I went, like, I said my tick tock. I was doing auctions. So I like vintage and antique items. I would go live and I would take vintage things from my house or from an antique mall. And I would literally be like, this is starting at 10 bucks. And people would bid them up, bid them up and buy stuff for me that I would look for. They'd be like, I'm looking for such and such thing from 1960. And I would go find it, and then I would do these auctions. So I was bringing in money. And so I was always at the antique mall. And I had quit my job and I was doing this a lot on TikTok, and I went out and I was looking for stuff for that night's auction. I was all dressed up, cute, and he loves the bowls. So I found this old vintage, like, stained glass window that had, like, his birth year on it. And it said Chicago Bulls. I was like, oh, my God. And I kept finding all these cute, like, bull memorabilia stuff, and I'm bringing it home, literally, not even exaggerating. August 13, 2021. I am skipping into the house, like, just picturing, like, Mort from Madagascar, so happy to bring my husband his gifts. And he is dead asleep on the bed with his phone in his chest. And I look at him and he wakes up and I'm like, babe. And he sees me and he's just like a ghost walked into the room. I'm like, okay, where are you dreaming? Like, I'm being all, like, patient with him. I'm like, it's okay, it's me. And he's just like, fumbling around and I'm like, what is wrong? And he's like, oh, nothing, nothing. I go up to him and I grab his phone and he starts like, like fighting me for his phone. And I'm like, okay, now you're being weird. And like our phones are never locked. So I'm like, give me your phone. So I start looking at it and I'm opening Snapchat and he is literally trying to wrestle me to get my phone out of his hand. I run and I look at, there's another streak with him and Carrie. And I will never forget, like how I felt that day. I was just like this, okay, I've never seen him act like that. This is so strange. What the fuck is going on? So he starts making all these excuses and telling me that it's work or whatever and there's nothing there for me to like read to see like what they're talking about. But I'm like, why is there another 50 day streak with you and Cari? And I don't know who she is at this point. And I don't even remember most of that day. All I remember was like that moment, but the rest of it was kind of a blur. I just was like chasing him out of the house. He was trying to literally run and get away. He was driving in his car. So I got in my car and I drove like around the freaking neighborhood. I'm chasing him. Like, mind you, looking back, I. I would literally do all of this so differently. I would literally not chase this man out of the house. I would probably pick up the phone, look at Snapchat and walk the straight the out. But I am panicking. I'm chasing him around the neighborhood. I finally find him. I convince him to get in the car. We're driving around, he's gets out of the car, he's walking, calling his friends to tell him to pick him up. We stop at a gas station at some point and. And obviously we're talking about all this and I'm like, did you have sex with her? And he just kind of like looked at me. I'm like, did you sleep with her? And he just kind of like looks at me like crying, tearing up. And he's just like, yes. And like confesses like really like weirdly and like timidly. And I was just like, there, there's no way. There's, there's literally no way. This is so weird. Literally what is happening right now? I start, that is the beginning of my absolute, like worst period of my life. I am a wreck. I am in disbelief. I am complete denial. But also like at the same Time I'm screaming and yelling and, like, what are you talking about? Like, tell me about her. Where she from? She's worked. She's this and that. I start looking up her name on Facebook and things like that. I reach out to her and Ken would never do this this day. Start sending her, like, paragraphs. Like, I know you know that John is married. Why are. What are you doing with my husband? Like, why are you sleeping with a married man? This is. I'm telling him the situation about how Lila is living with us or whatever. And jumping back to that, I forgot to mention that there was a point where Delilah, my niece, her parents came back to take her. Like, we're moving to Wisconsin or whatever. So her being taken from our home. Home. I saw John, like, emotionally, like, spiraling even more. Like, that was literally, like, we felt we were losing our child. I am so open and used to, like, working on my mental health and, like, letting out my feelings, whether it's on the Internet or to my partner or even just to myself, journaling. I am very open. I know you have to get that out. So he was just never like that. And I'm like, you have to, like, deal with this and, you know, like, not let this affect you like that. And so I was telling her all this situation and how she's, like, destroying someone's life and blah, blah, blah. And she's just like. It's just completely not like me. I don't know what I'm doing or why. And he's just. He was just there, and he's. I'm pretty sure she said at some point, like, he's just sweet and funny, and we got along really well. And he said that you guys weren't doing good, and so he. That he's trying to leave you or whatever. And I'm like, like, what is this girl even saying right now? I was livid. I started messaging her mom, her dad, telling them what their little daughter was doing. Like, I was going, girl.

A (86:56)

She was a lot younger.

B (86:58)

She was. I'm 29 or 30. She's 26 or 27. And in my mind, I'm like, you're 26? Like, I think that's the oldest she would have been at that point. I'm like, you're grown. Like, you're not a little girl. You know what you're doing? Who does this? And obviously, this whole time, anybody would say, like, you look at him, it's his fault. You blame the man. It's my husband who stepped out of line in the Marriage. But I was so focused on, like, this is so out of character and things have been slowly spiraling. His cousin had just taken his own life. And those auctions that I was doing, I was saving up money because I couldn't afford to go to Houston for his cousin. Cousin's funeral. So I was raising money on auction to give to the family for funeral expenses and for John to go to his cousin's funeral. And I know that that was another thing. Just like, I mean like so many things like that happened in our family that I know it was like destroying him mentally. And I'm like, this is not him. Like, this is not this man. And meanwhile, mind you, during all of this, he's still bringing me flowers, he's still making me breakfast in bed, he's still making me baths, he's still taking me out on dates or whatever. Like he's still doing all of those things. It's just a little bit less than what it used to be. My friends that are still in my life till this day, and I'll probably touch on them a little bit, they are the ones that had to remind me, the ones that saw me going through all of this. Jenny, you are living what all of us have lived through our teens and our 20s. Like, I've been with this man for 13 years. I've never had like a tumultuous breakup up, a huge heartbreak. Like, was I heartbroken about my first boyfriend? Yeah. But I was like so young and then like it's so quick in high school to just jump into the next relationship. And that was three years. And then I jumped into a 13 year long relationship. All of my 20s, my friends were envious of us because they were going through breakups, they were being cheated on, they were this, they were that. And I am stable and set with John. Like, I am so happy. I'm fulfilled. Like, like, I do think that our financial struggles played into a lot of the stress of like how things turned out. Because I don't think people realize like how badly finances can affect a marriage. But to me it was just like, that's just money. I'm not a materialistic person. I, I've. He was always like, money comes and goes. It's okay, we'll figure it out. We're going to Greece and I'm like, okay. So like all of the stuff with cheating and heartbreak and these feelings that you get when you find out that someone is betraying you was completely new to me. And I'm 30. Like, this is the first time I'm going through it. So explaining the things that I did and I'm going to do in this story is, again, for lack of better word, embarrassing, because I am literally acting like a teenager, like, for the first time, being cheated on. But this is my person, my partner, my soulmate, my husband. And so I am constantly reaching out to this girl because they're talking or whatever. And eventually it gets to a point where, like, okay, we're working on our marriage. He just, like, breaks down sobbing, crying, like, apologizing and things like that. And, like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I don't feel okay. I'm not okay. Like, I need help. There's something wrong. And so I started looking for, like, therapy and outlets and stuff to help us. And I come across this friend of a friend. She calls herself a life coach. She's not, like a therapist or, like, licensed in any way, but she does genuinely, like, help people. But I think she's more helpful for, like, people as individuals. Like, she helped me talking about things that I didn't process as a child. And she was doing the same thing for John. But when it comes to me and her, I don't think she had any business, like, giving us therapy as a married man and wife going through an affair. And I think that her helping him with this childhood thing, like, whether it helped him genuinely or not, he used a lot of that as an excuse as to, like, why he did to me what he did after finding out about him. I am literally a shell of a person. Like, this is probably the most media I've been in the last three years because I'm, like, healthily gaining weight and stuff now, but I was a little bit bigger than this during COVID and then immediately, probably within two weeks, lost 30 to 40 pounds. Like, I was rags. Like, my boobs were literally, like. I looked. I showed one of my girlfriends also on FaceTime, and I was like, look at my boobs. And I took off my shirt and shoulder, and she's like, jenny, it looks like you've been breastfeeding for three years. Like, they were little deflated boobies. And I was like, I. I don't know what is wrong with me. I cannot. Like, I wouldn't eat. I was sleeping all day long. I was so miserably depressed. And I think since I was a child, I've struggled with depression, but I've always dealt with that on my own. And I've always had outlets. Nature helps me and stuff like that. And this was like, Nothing was helping me. Like I didn't have my person at the end of the day. And he was saying that he was working on things. And then one day I tell him, which he says that I was like toxic for doing. I was like, I need you to put your location on. Like, I need to know where you're at. Like, you're taking a while to get home from work. At this point, he's driving all the way to Illinois from Indiana to work at the second location at this company that he's working at that I told him to quit. But instead they're moving him farther away from home. So he's getting home later at night. And I'm like, send me your location because I need to know what's going on. And I keep seeing him in this parking lot across the street of where he works, like throughout the day. I'm like, like, what the is happening? Like, why is he, why is it showing across the street? Like, maybe it's glitching or whatever and it is such a far freaking drive. But one day I tell him to put his location on. I drove all the way to Illinois. I have never, I've never in my life been to Dave and Busters. And I had always wanted to go to Dave and Bursters. I will never set foot in a Dave and Busters till this day because of what happened. But I would beg him. I'm like, come on, that's like something fun. Like, let's just go. Like there's nothing to do around here in Indiana. Let's just go to Dave and bus. Busters never took me. I drive all the way. He's at Dave and Buster's with his friends after work. And I pull up, I'm looking for a place to park and I'm about to go inside when I see a car parked right in front of the front door. And I just like, very strong intuition. I'm like, why is that car parked there? They're just like sitting there. They haven't left. It's been a few minutes. They're not going inside, they're not getting out. And I'm like, what is this car? So I'm just like, like circling the parking lot and I'm like, no, it's nothing. I'm just like waiting for him to come out of Dave and Busters. I'm looking at the front door and this car pulls out, goes around the building to the back of Dave and Busters. And I'm like, oh, hell no. So I'm just like, that's got to be them. I don't know. Her car. It's got to be them. It's got to be them. And I sit and I park. Which is funny because he has my location, too. Why he didn't check it, I don't know. I parked to where I can see the car behind me in the rear view, and I'm. I'm like, what do I do? Like, do I go up to the car? It's got to be them. Like, why is it parked in the back of the parking lot? He's told me at this point that he confessed to going across the street during his lunch break, getting White claws and sitting in the parking lot of some business. And then her in the parking lot on his lunch break all the time at work. Like, he has told me that he's doing this.

A (94:23)

He told you that?

B (94:25)

He told me this when I first found out that that's what they were doing. Like, oh, we were just like.

A (94:29)

Did you ever ask. Ask, by any chance, of like, so you, like, why were you interested in her and not me?

B (94:37)

I'm sure I asked that many times. And I think his reasoning was, like. He just felt like we were so. What? Distanced at that point. And he just, like, needed some sort of outlet. And he was talking to this girl.

A (94:52)

Okay. John.

B (94:53)

Giving him attention.

A (94:54)

All right.

B (94:55)

Anyway, she's just a desperate little girl at work and was giving him the attention.

A (94:59)

Horrible excuse.

B (94:59)

Exactly.

A (95:00)

Okay, so it always is.

B (95:01)

When is it not a horrible.

A (95:02)

So I was just curious if it was anything better than that. So obviously not. Okay, so you.

B (95:08)

So I'm watching this car, and I am so mad again. Till this day, I wish I would have gotten out of the freaking car. Oh. But I sat and I watched this car as my husband is obviously someone in it for who knows how many minutes.

A (95:23)

And at this point, you didn't see who was in the car yet.

B (95:26)

I hadn't seen anything.

A (95:26)

Just, like, had this.

B (95:27)

She has tinted window windows, and it was just this white car. Still can't even remember what kind of fucking car it was till this day. And I'm watching this car, and I'm mortified to, like, go up to it because at this point, it's raining, starting to rain. I'm like, great. Fucking torrential. Pouring rain again. And then I was like, what if I go up and it's just like, some other guy with his wife or just, like, people smoking weed? I would be so embarrassed. Be like, who's in here, like, fucking my husband? So I did not approach this car. And I. I'm so mad about that to this day. But it starts driving away. And I get out of my car and I start walking, like, behind it because it's just going front, like, slowly to the front of Dave and Buster's, to where his car was parked. Because I saw his truck parked there when I pulled up to Dave and Buster's, and I thought they were inside. So I'm pulling up. I'm like, walking behind this car. I see his truck there, and I see him get out of the passenger sidecar. I'm like, oh, my God. I literally just watched the car as they were having sex in it. Like. Like, why didn't I get out? I'm so stupid. I'm, like, more than an hour away from home. It's raining. And he gets out, and I was like, hey, John. And he just, like, looks at me and just, like, looks away and, like, gets in his car. And I was like, oh, hell, no. So I go up to her car, her window, and she's just like this. Like, I'm in her window, and she's just staring straight, and she's just, like, with a smirk on her face. I start banging on her window, kicking her car. I'm, like, yelling at her, get the fuck out. Why are you being like, oh, you're gonna help my husband? You can't come out and talk to me about it? I'm screaming and yelling at her, and he is getting in his truck, turning it on. She runs over my foot in front of David. Ran over my foot. She's. I'm chasing her down the thing. Like, literally, I was trying to, like, find anything that I could stab her tire with or whatever. And then I'm, like, torn in between. Like, do I keep chasing her or do I chase him? He's running in his car, and I, like. I feel like in that. What is that movie? My Best Friend's Wedding. Like, who's chasing who? Like, I'm over here. Like, I don't know which way to go. And he starts driving away. She runs over my foot. And I get into his truck. I'm like, she fucking ran. Ran over my foot. I. Sorry. I didn't get into his truck. I got into the bed of his truck because he kept locking the doors. He wouldn't let me get in the fucking door. And I think my battery had died or my tire was flat. Like, it was a mess. So I'm in the bed of his truck, like, banging on the little back window. The back window's like, this Big. And I'm like, let me in how they are, you know, Like I'm screaming and yelling and he's just like acting like nothing. I pry open the little window, squeeze. I squeeze in the back of his truck. Like, again, who would go through all of this? Like, just drive away from this man? Like, he's literally an asshole. She's a piece of shit. Like, but I'm like, this is my husband. Like, I need to have answers. I need to know what is happening. Like, I was just losing it. So I climb into his car and he's like, go to your car, Jenny. Like, I'll talk to you at home or whatever.

A (98:24)

But you also were under the impression that he was like working on everything. Yeah, like you guys were in there.

B (98:29)

We're like, we're fixing our marriage. He's still coming home to me every night. I'm still cooking him full fledged meals. And so I get into his car and. And he's trying to like, take me to my car to get me out of there. I'm like, no, I can't. My battery's dead. My battery's dead. And so we drove all the way home in the truck. I had to have a friend, like, take me back to my car the next day or something. But like, at this point, the worst in me came out. I'm like hitting him while he's driving. I'm like grabbing his face, like yelling at him, like trying to get through to him in any way that I could. It was like a cry for attention or help or something. And I wish I wouldn't have reacted like that, but I literally, I could not get over the fact that I just stared at a car that my husband was having sex with someone in, like the whole time. And I couldn't do anything about it. Like I could have gotten it out. Gotten out what? And then actually seen them in the act. Right?

A (99:19)

Like, yeah.

B (99:20)

Would that have been clearly care? Because I don't think they saw me there. Like, he was just.

A (99:25)

No, but like, I don't even think that you going up and catching them in the act, I don't even think they would have cared or I think.

B (99:32)

She would have been the same.

A (99:33)

That's what I'm saying. Right. Because the fact that they saw, saw you right after, if they would have felt. Felt guilty, like there would have still been some sort of reaction. They did even give you a reaction that they just didn't care at that point.

B (99:43)

Yeah. And so I, I think I messaged her at one point. I was like, what the Were you like? He told me he was with friends and she was like, I'm so sorry again. I'm so sorry. I don't know what I was doing. Like, it was just supposed to be like, us and co workers thing. And I was like, were there other guys there or was it just you two? And she's like, no, it was. It was just so spur of the moment, Jenny. Like, it was supposed to be other people, but we decided just to go. Us too. And like, it was a last minute thing after work. It wasn't planned at all. And like, it almost sounded like she was going to be like. But nothing happened. But, like, clearly something happened. Like, even if they were just at Dave and Buster's, like, playing games with each other, which I asked him later, I'm like, were you guys, like, walking around, like, holding hands? Like, what if somebody had seen you? Like, people know who you are around here. And he was like, yeah, like, we were holding hands. It was like a date kind of a thing. And I was just so mortified and disgusted. And all I could do at that time was keep reaching out to her. I'm like, okay, I know it's his fault my husband is being literally a piece of garbage right now. But, like, as a woman, I reached out to her so many times. I said, as a woman, can you please stop? Like, give him some space. He's trying to work on himself. We're trying to work on our marriage. Please leave my husband alone. Just stop. And every single time, it was, this is not like me. I've never done anything like this. I don't know what I'm doing or. Or why. And then the next day, she'd be him in the car again on the lunch break. Like, I would watch him on his location. I was becoming psychotic at this point, like, watching his location. And he ended up, like, turning that against me. Like, oh, he was trapped in the marriage and he had no freedom because I had his location on and he couldn't do anything.

A (101:17)

He should have been somebody in a parking lot.

B (101:19)

And I'm like, first of all, you have not been trapped. Because I've never done this up until now. And like, what are you talking? I'm the one trapped at home cooking for a man who's literally a coworker in the car.

A (101:28)

As I watch, as I watch, watch.

B (101:33)

So I am literally just seriously declining at this point. Another instance was, I don't remember where I was supposed to be or what I was doing, like a therapy session or whatever. And his Location is in the parking lot of the hospital in town. It was like, Saint. What is it? St. Anthony's Hospital in Crown Point. And I show up, and I pull up next to them, and I'm like, I. I park right next to her car, and I open the passenger door where he's at, and he's sitting like this, like, over the console, like, with his phone, like, looking at videos with her, and they're just like. And she's just, like, making some stupid little face at me. And I was like, so at this.

A (102:12)

What are you doing with him yet?

B (102:14)

No.

A (102:14)

Okay.

B (102:14)

No. At this point, I'm fighting for my marriage.

A (102:16)

Okay.

B (102:17)

And because he was so convincing, and obviously, I can't really say this, like, because I'm not a medical professional. Like, I don't think he's been diagnosed or anything for. Or anything, but he was very manipulative, and he was very narcissistic in my eyes, because the amount of, like, apologies and groveling and crying he would do with me. And literally, like, I don't know what's wrong with me. Like, I. This. And I'm like, yeah, this is not like you. This is not like him, and I want you, but, like, there's. It's just. It's never going to be the same, and I don't know why I'm doing this. And it was just, like, he was very convincing. And I also do think that I was just so. My body was in such shock that I, like, didn't even know, like, how to tell what was real and what was fake almost. At that point, I just, like, all I wanted was to save my marriage and to save my husband. And to this day, a lot of people say people who leave are very strong, and I do think that that's true. And kudos to the people who find out about stuff and they can just walk out, because that does show strength. But I do think that staying and knowing the depths of illness that their partner is in and are willing to fight for that and stay true to themselves, stay true to their marriage and make it work, whether it's with kids or without kids. Like, I think there's a level of strength to that, too. It took a bigger toll on me. And to some people, maybe it comes off as, like, weakness, but I. I was, like, not swaying from, like, No, I promise you that no matter what, like, we can figure it out. Like, it's me and you through thick and thin, and right now it's really bad. And I know him, that this girl that he was Sleeping with like, is not like, I don't think she's attractive. He was like, oh, she's just like someone to. I'm like, it's not like he was like, in love with her. And he would literally talk about her to me and be like, I don't like her. Like that. She was just like, there. She was the person that was there. But she was infatuated with him and, like, thought he was in love with her or whatever because he's so cunning and so witty and charming that I'm.

A (104:21)

Sure he was feeding her stuff.

B (104:22)

He was definitely manipulating her because, like, how do you get messages like that from someone's wife and not be able to, like, stop yourself? I want to feel bad for her in a sense, but I don't because she didn't stop. She didn't, didn't care. She was very disrespectful and stuff. And to not be able to, like, remove yourself from a situation like self respect as well. Yeah, yeah. I think, like, she must have been thought so lowly of herself or whatever. Been that desperate. I found them in the, the parking lot of the hotel or the hospital once and I pull open the door and they're just kind of looking at me. He just gets out like, what? No, Jenny. And I'm just like, what the fuck are you guys doing? He's like, oh, she was here to visit her friend that's having a baby. I was like, I don't know fuck about her friend and her baby. Like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, get in the car. And he starts, like, getting into his car to drive away. And she said something. Oh, my God. I can't remember what it was that she said, but she said something like, really fucking snarky. That's why I have no respect for her. She said, get your hands off my car. Get your hands off me. Or whatever. I ran around the other side and gosh, I. Again, so out of character for me. I reach, I reach in and I grab her by the neck and I grab her by the shoulder and I choked her. And I was like, get your hands off my husband. And she just, like, looked at me, was just, like, scared. And I didn't do anything. Like, I wasn't going to do anything else, but, like, I wanted to scare her because at this point she, like, didn't care to stop. So I'm like, I'm going to threaten her to stop, which I don't know if I'll get in trouble for saying this, so if you have to cut it.

A (105:57)

I don't think so. I think it's hilarious. But trust me, I like, once again, obviously it's not the right reaction, but I can guarantee it's the reaction that over 50% of women would have.

B (106:11)

I was furious, I was fuming. But I, oh my God, the way that she looked at me, like she looked scared. And I was like, get your don't like the audacity for you to tell me not to touch your car. And I'm like, like, get your hands off my husband. So she said something else and she's just like slowly gets out of her car or whatever and I like push her back in. John is at this point coming to the car to pick me up and I'm like kicking like a toddler, like trying to get out of his arms, like, let me go. And she's saying something out of the the window, like, trying to like pick at me. And so eventually I get out of his arms and she starts driving away. I jump onto the roof of her car, I rip off her windshield. Windshield wiper. I'm banging her windshield with the wiper in the parking lot of the hospital. Hospital. There's like hundreds of cars there. And I literally, like, I have never felt like I could in that moment, like feel myself as an out of body experience. Like watching myself be on this woman's car while she's driving away and being like, what are you doing, Jenny? Like, literally, what are you doing?

A (107:14)

Like you're losing yourself. Yes.

B (107:15)

And I was just literally going crazy at that point. I was so humiliated about everything that was going on that like, I needed space from people. Like, I needed to just like be on my own. Like, I didn't want to be talking to everybody and my friends and stuff about it. I like needed time by myself. Like, I was literally just like in the bathtub all day or in the bed all day. And that couple friend that I mentioned earlier, that the four of us were attached at the hip, the husband called me and he was like, hey. And he was like, I just wanted to let you know that like, we're here for you. We love you. I like, I had just gotten off of this woman's car and I'm beating her windshield with her windshield wipers. Like, flustered, like fuming. And he had no idea. But I was like, okay, thank you. Like, I'll let you guys know if I need anything. But I was very short with him. But I had already told them as well as everybody else in my life, like, guys I'm not okay. Like, I know I'm the person that normally is throwing your baby showers, your bridal showers, your birthday parties, your surprises as the holidays. Like, I'm not that person right now. I cannot and will not be that person. Like, I need this time to myself. And people just like, didn't take me seriously. I don't think they had ever seen me like that. So I was very short with them. But after that phone call with him, I'll call him a. I never heard from him again till this day. And his wife was my best friend. When she heard about all of this happening, she came over. They had also been married for a very long time time, and they had just had their first child. She was in my bed with me and I was kind of just like crying and telling her what happened because I let her come over, you know. And I just remember most of the conversation was like, comparing, like, oh, like what I would do or like if A did that. I don't know. Just like, it was just like very comparing of the situation. I'm like, I didn't need advice. I didn't want to know what you would do differently in your marriage.

A (109:04)

Like, you just needed a friend. Friend.

B (109:06)

Yeah. And you don't actually know what you would do in that situation. Like, nobody knows what it's like until you're in it. She kind of turned this, the conversation into like, stuff that was going on with their marriage and like, venting to me. So then at one point I'm sitting on the bed and I'm just like, literally look like death. And I'm like, oh, so I'm like, supposed to console her now, like, and I want to as a friend, but I like, literally have no energy to do that. And I just like, remember like, grabbing her and like holding and like consoling her to feel like it completely switched and it was made about her was like, very weird to me and it was very hard. And now we're basically like, our friendship has been like, torn apart by that. They've basically sided with him and our friends with John, and he comes into town and goes to see them. She would call me multiple times when I was going through things and tried to talk to me. But she was like, yelling at me about how. How selfish I am and how you've just ignored everyone and just how shitty and terrible of a person I am. And I'm sitting like, sobbing, crying on the phone. Like, don't stop trying to enter. I'm like, I'm just not okay right now to like be dealing with all of this and be having this conversation and me trying to like, tell her, like, I can't emotionally take this on. She was like, and that's exactly why John did what he did to you. Now I know exactly why. He could. Couldn't stand you and blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, like, to hear that from your best friend. Through all of this, I was spiraling even more. All of that, like, basically led into. We had to sell our house. I had to rehome my cats. We had our two kitties. I had them for like maybe eight years at this point. And that was one of the most traumatizing things I'd ever been through. Like having to give them away to like a shelter and losing my home and all my things. Like, we had worked so hard to buy our first house and we were so pro and I was fixing it up. It was beautiful. It was like a four bedroom, two bath house. And like, I was literally living the life. Like all of my dreams were coming true. So when all of this happened, like my whole life shattered. So we sold the house. And then he starts saying, I think I want a divorce. I want a divorce. I want.

A (111:13)

So it was his decision to get divorced?

B (111:15)

Yeah. So he kept saying he didn't know what he wanted. I don't know what I want. I'm like, what do you mean you don't know what you want? Like, you don't see a future with us? He's like, I don't think so. I don't see anything. I just see like darkness and like just nothing. And he was. He was sitting in the room one day and he was like crying and stuff about something. And I was looking at him from. We were about this far apart. And I was like. He was just like being really mean and I'm like, you look evil right now. And he just kind of made this face at me. He's like, because I am Jenny. He's like, maybe I am evil. And I just will never forget it. He just like looked like, like a freaking like demon to me. And it was so scary to see him. But then this played a big part in. I'm not sure how many people have been through this, but I was already deprived, like, sexually from my husband. And then going through all of this, your body is just like so antsy that it almost made my sex drive like higher. And then seeing him like that, it scared the out of me. But it scared me even more that I was like, not turned on by it. But I just, like. I, like, wanted him in that moment. And he came over, and he came up to me, and he just, like, kissed me, like, very sensually. And he was just like, I'm not a good guy, Jenny. And, like, kind of, like, reached down and, like, was, like. Like, trying to touch me or something. I don't remember. I knew he wasn't going to sleep with me, but he was, like, taunting me. And I remember just being like. So I just, like, wanted to sleep with my husband. Like, it was the weirdest, scariest thing. And I think not only was it trauma bonding, but it was. There's a word for, like, being so, like, sexually aroused when you're in a state of, like, feeling threatened or scared. And I. I was just, like, so, like, humiliated to feel like that because he still, like, wouldn't sleep with me or whatever. And then eventually he ended up sleeping with me later on down the road. And it was, like, very emotional. It was not, like, gross in any way. We were, like, connecting, and I was like, okay, he. He was still, like, going back and forth with, I want to fix it. I want a divorce. And. And he came inside me, and I was like, did you just do that? And he was like, I would have a baby with you at any moment, Jenny. And I was like. I was so confused, and I was like, oh, my God, he's literally gonna get me pregnant right now. What the Is happening? But, like, it was the craziest thing. Like, you were literally going back and forth and saying that you want to divorce and that you don't want to be with me and this and that you don't know what you want. And now I. After all these years, you're trying to impregnate me and saying, I would have a baby with you in an instant. Like, I want a family with you. And I was just, like, somebody that close to you, speaking to you in that way and doing those things to you is, like, I didn't know where to be with my emotions. I was all over the place. So I started looking for pages and groups, like, on Facebook and online to connect with other people who had been through this. And I found a page called, what wives who stay, like, after infidelity. Like, wives who choose to stay with their husband and fight for the marriage and stuff like that. And a lot of it was, like, relatable. But also, most of these women that were on there were, like, talking about domestic violence and how they were mistreating their kids, and it just seemed a lot more, like, damaging. And traumatizing than what I was going through, that I was like, okay, I don't think in that situation I would stay. But also, I'm not judging her. Like. Like, I couldn't find anybody in there that was, like, going through what I was going through. I call our best friend David that I spoke about earlier, and I was like, john's in trouble. You've offered him a job down in South Carolina before. He needs help. And he's like, what happened? And I told him what happened, and he was like, what? There's no way. Every single person in our life that I told about me and John that he was having an affair, they were like, no, he didn't like what they thought. I was, like, trolling them or something. And they're like, he would never like John. Nobody believed me. And I'm like, okay, I don't even know how to freaking go through. Through this, like, telling our moms and stuff that, like, we're probably getting divorced. And because nobody even believed me, they're like, you know, John would literally never do that to you. And I'm like, okay, well, he did. And I just, again, felt like I was going crazy because nobody believed me. So David was just like, what? There's. There's no way. But I told him the situation about shillings. So he was. He called John and he was like, hey, man, you need to get out of there, like, right now. He's like, you need to leave that situation. And I've got a job for you. For you here. Like, if you need it, just come down to South Carolina. John calls me right after, and he's sobbing in tears. He's like, jennifer. I'm like, what? And he was like, thank you so much for saving me. Like, he's crying, sobbing on the phone. He's like, you literally just saved my life. I didn't know I was ever gonna get out of there. And I called. He's like, I really needed that. Like, I didn't know how to tell David. And you literally just saved my life. Life. And he got a job down in South Carolina, went down there where I'm packing up the house and selling, because I'm thinking, like, okay, we're gonna move to South Carolina, finally get out of miserable Indiana, get away from everything, start fresh. And he starts getting on dating apps and meeting girls and telling them that we've been divorced for three years. And I somehow. I don't remember how I had access to his phone, but I was seeing messages between him and girls, and I was reaching out to them every time, like, hey, this is my husband. He's married. We're supposed to be working on our marriage. And all of them were very respectful. And they were like, oh, my gosh, he'll never hear from me again. One of them was Julia. One of them was Katie. To this day, like, we follow each other, like, on Instagram and everything, because they were like, what? Are you serious? This guy? Like, I have had such terrible, terrible luck with dating that I met John and I was like, dude, this is the one. And these girls tell me this, and they're like, he. He's so different. He seems so genuine and so sweet and charming. Like, I told him that I was sick and I almost didn't want to go on this date. And he showed up with tea and cough drops and flowers or whatever the case may be. Like, he was whining and dining these girls and manipulating them and lying to them, telling them that we were divorced. When I went down to visit him in South Carolina, I put myself on the dating apps just to see for myself if he really was on there. And he was. And so at one point I was like, you know what? What? I want to see what's so fun about this. Like, what is so great about cheating and being on dating apps and whatever the case may be, which is horrible, horrible experience I got. I put myself on Tinder and I was like, I'm gonna see what it's all about. So I go on Tinder and again, I wish I wouldn't have done this, but I met some guy and I was talking to him and I was like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna have a one night stand. I like, I'm not having sex. My husband's across the country and. And he's obviously still cheating on me or whatever. So I get on there and I ended up sleeping with him. And it was like a very short lived, like, meetups here and there. And then I was telling this lady that was counseling us, I was like, I feel so guilty. I feel so disgusting. It didn't make me feel better. So people who are going through, like, cheating, who try to make up for it by, like, cheating back, it doesn't make it any better. You don't you feel worse about yourself. And I was like, but I feel guilty and I want to tell John. And she's like, I think you should tell John if you want to. And so we get on a FaceTime for one of our meetings, and she was like, jenny has something that she would like to tell you. And I was like, I don't know how to say this, but I ended up getting on dating app, and I met this guy, and I ended up sleeping with him. And he was just like, what? Good for you? He was like, what the are you talking about? And I was like. Like, I wanted to see what was so fun about it. Like, and I feel shitty. So I don't know how you in your position could, like, feel good about yourself and continue to do it. Yeah. And he was like, I can't believe you would let someone else touch you like that. How the. I can't even look at you right now. He was just, like, looking away from the camera, and it blew up. It escalated. And so me, I'm like, yeah, this is narcissism, is it not? This is manipulation. Like, how are you possibly looking at me like I'm the bad person? So that was just like, that's what tore our marriage apart. And he wanted me even less or whatever. And so I felt bad because I still did want to work on my marriage at that point, But I made a stupid decision, and you're gonna turn it around on me and blame the whole thing on me now? Like, it was insanity. So I remember trying to, like, talk to him one time, and my friend Kay was over at the house, and she was sitting and, like, he was on speaker, and he was yelling at something. Like, whatever. We were talking and arguing, and her face was just like, jenny, I've never heard a man talk to a woman like that. And I'm like, what? Like, she's like, I would never let a man talk to me. Like, I cannot believe how he was speaking to you. And I was like, what are you talking about? That was, like, nothing compared to, like, what I had been living through. And, you know, I would yell back at him, too, in arguments, and that was very tame. But for me to, like, hear somebody hear us so tamely, like, him so tamely yelling at me over the phone, I was like, am I, like, being stupid right now? Like, how do. How do I not see what, like, other people are seeing? So it got really bad to a point where I secluded myself more. My family still didn't understand. I needed space. And I just kept losing people and losing people and losing people. I felt so freaking alone. I became suicidal. And it was a cry for help and a call for attention from John. I, like, threw myself in the car, in the garage, closed the door, and I was like, it's. I'm just gonna do it right here. And Then, and somehow he was, I think, inside or something. He came out to the garage, drags me out of the car, like carries me up the stairs. I'm like lightheaded or whatever. And we have this big full length mirror at the top of our steps. We have a bi level home, home. And I was just like, fault. Like I literally did not even have the strength to stand. I was just like, why would you do this to me? Like, how can you do this to us? Like, us. Like of all the people who have not made it in this life and in their marriage, this is not us. Like, I just literally could not believe what was happening. I'm about to lose my home. I don't have my pets, my friends are all out of my life. Like I'm about to maybe get divorced. And I just like fall into his arms, into this panic attack. And he says to this day he's like, I will never unsee the vision of turning to the mirror and seeing you like that in my arms because of me. Like, so in the future when I would try to make it work with him, he blames it on that. Like, it would have never been the same. It would have never worked because he, he couldn't get past his shame and guilt or whatever. But for me, I knew that like, if we were to stay together after an affair and stuff like that, that it would be because I chose to and I wouldn't want to bring up this kind of stuff and be like, yeah, well, remember when you cheated on me? Like, I'm capable of not bringing shit like that up if we're going to move on and be better. It was very, very lonely is like the only word that I can use for it. And he kept in contact with this girl. And I found out one more time and I was like, you know what? I can't, I, I, I, I'm gonna like, meet up with her in person. So I found them one time in this parking lot and I can see their silhouettes in his truck. They're kissing each other and I'm just like, whatever at this point, wait for him to get out of the car. He drives away. He sees that I'm there and I'm like, as he leaves, I go inside the bar and I follow her. I was like, hey, I'm not going to hurt you. Will you just fucking talk to me? Like, I need to know when this started. Like, I wanted to know, like the details, like if there was something that he was saying that was going on that I didn't know about or whatever. And she was just, like. Kept talking about how, like, she's a Pisces, too, and this is so out of her character. And, like, she just thought that it was nothing between us. It was nothing anymore. And he. He only says good things about you, Jenny. He says nothing but good, amazing, wonderful things about you. And I was like, okay, I, like, did not want to hear this from this girl. And her friend was there, and her friend was really drunk, and she's like, hey, can you just, like, leave them alone? If he wants to be with her, he's gonna be with her. It's not her fault, and she didn't do anything wrong. If they want to be together, let her have him. And I was like, please stop talking to me. Like, at that point, I should have been like, yeah, you're right. I should just let her have him. But, like, the fact that this, like, little girl that has no idea what the situation is was, like, she knew what her friend was doing the whole time, and she was like, oh, yeah, cool. It's okay that Cari's just sleeping with a married guy. Like, just let it be. Let it happen. And that's the kind of that, like, I wanted to touch on being here. Talking is. I feel cheating is so normal these days. It's so common. Everybody's like, oh, yeah, when I got cheated on, I got cheated on. He cheated, I cheated. Whatever. It's so normal. It's almost taboo. Like, people just, like, don't talk about it. And, like, if you find out that a man or a woman is married and you continue involving yourself in that, I don't see anything good that comes from it. Sure, maybe people break up a marriage and then they end up marrying that person. It's so common that later on down the road, they have the same issues. Like, nothing good comes of it. And I don't know why it's so.

A (124:28)

It's so common.

B (124:29)

It's disgusting. When I sold my house, I decided, you know, I invested some of that money. I bought a 2011 Jeep Liberty, and I was like, I'm just leaving. I can't be here. I'm so miserable. I'm so depressed. Depressed. Being in Indiana, everything reminds me of him. I'm buying a car and I'm leaving. My friends are all going to Colorado for a ski trip, and I'm gonna pack it up with as much stuff as I can get on Amazon, and I'm leaving to Colorado. And on my journeys, like, on the road, like, I've met so many people that are just like, oh, yeah, when my husband cheated on me. Oh, but he was a piece of. And he was an. And this and that. I'm like, no, but I don't. Like, my husband wasn't a piece of like that to me. And, like, I wasn't miserable in my marriage. I thought it was good. Like, how does something so good turn into something so bad? And I was just so lost. So I bought the Jeep and I traveled to Colorado. I met up with my friends there, and I just kind of started living my life. Like, I just did not want to be here so badly that I was like, I have to do anything to just get out in the world and experience things for myself. I have been told through this whole situation, you need to learn to love yourself. You need to find yourself and find out who you you are. I've had love yourself tattooed on my body since 2012. Like, I've always been an advocate for mental health, self love, self care. And you can only love yourself so much. Like, I know my value. I know my worth. I know who I am. I know what I love to do and what I want to do and what I want for my future. I just want someone to enjoy it with. Like, I still feel like I'm going to waste. And experiencing dating apps and stuff like this through all of this experience has been so gross, horrible. It is the same thing over and over. Everybody talks about cheating and divorce. It's just, like, so common. And.

A (126:14)

But you also see how easy it is to go on there and just hook up with people.

B (126:17)

Yeah.

A (126:17)

And I think that's what a lot of people on there do.

B (126:19)

Yeah. And, I mean, I ended up doing that one time. And I understand if. If that's your intention, but, like, say that that's your intention on the dating app.

A (126:27)

Yeah.

B (126:27)

Instead of messing with people who are actually looking for relationships. Because how else are you supposed to meet someone these days? Like, okay, I'm gonna meet my dream man in the grocery store as I'm shopping for bananas. Okay.

A (126:39)

As you're walking outside.

B (126:40)

Right.

A (126:41)

Yeah.

B (126:41)

Yeah. So.

A (126:42)

So are you guys divorced now?

B (126:43)

We're officially divorced as of last year.

A (126:46)

Okay.

B (126:47)

So it was a lot of back and forth for three years. I don't know what I want. I want to be with you. I don't know what I want. And when he got down to South Carolina, after I reached out to the other girls and they backed off, he met this one other girl, Marissa, he's currently still with. And same thing, I messaged her multiple times. I messaged her parents because instead of going to divorce court, he was supposed to come from South Carolina to Indiana. We're like, this is dragged on and prolonged as long as it needs to be. He has convinced me so much that he wants a divorce. He wants divorce and it's been three years, years and you have not gotten the papers, you have not done the work. So I was like, fine, you want a divorce, I'll get the papers. So now it's going to look like I initiated this and like I wanted it. This is nothing that I ever wanted to be divorced at my age with no kids. I just, I'm not proud to wear that title. And I know so many people embrace it, but so many of us out here are like, it like, does not go with like who I am. Like, I feel for yourself, I feel so, like not myself. And I did it because he just wouldn't do it. And so one day he was supposed to show up for court and instead of court, I see pictures of them on Instagram in Italy with her family. Like they paid for him to take a trip to Italy. I'm like, he's supposed to be at court right now and he full well knew the date. And your daughter may I know, like this is a thing with most cheaters, I feel he just has a way with people. Like, like if you were to meet him right now, you would never know it was the person that I was talking about. Like he is just, he's 65, he's very handsome, he's very charming, very witty, very funny. So after I tried to like take my own life, his mom and my mom came over to the house and it's funny cuz I feel so bad but to this day, like they were like, you guys, you need to come stay with one of us or whatever. And I refused to go to my mom's house and I went to his mom's house, house because I just felt more like if I wanted to be left alone, I would be left alone. They weren't as pushy, they weren't up on my butt like how my mom is. So I feel really bad. But like I choose to go to his, chose to go to his family's house. And I will never forget one of the most hurtful things that like I went through too. Like I had just tried taking my own life. I'm in the middle of selling my house or whatever and I had just confessed to John about sleeping with this guy and, and I was like laying dying on his mom's couch and they were consoling me. And at one point I had confessed that like I had slept with this guy. And I was like. And so I told John about it because I felt really guilty. I was told by this like therapist, like, you need to tell him something like earth shattering. So his world like shakes and maybe he like snaps out of it and realizes that what he did to you is hurtful the way that you did this. You made this decision and it was hurtful to him. Like he needs to see from your perspective, like how early earth shattering this could be. And so I told his mom this and she. Which I love her and our relationship is like still good and everything to this day. But I know many people wouldn't talk to someone after hearing she was like, it's kind of your fault. Then the way he's acting, the way he's acting. And I'm like, no, you're just defending your son right now. Like, I get it. Somebody, your daughter in law is like opening up to you about what your son did to, to her. And I know it doesn't make me any better for doing what I did, but I did it once months, because I was literally being tormented for months and months and months and my earth was shattered anyways, like it can't possibly get any worse. But then to still be told that it was my fault. Like, I felt like all over again. This whole like emotions of like going through when I was younger and with the cop assaulting me and stuff like that, like it was my fault. Like I put myself in this situation. But I don't remember having done anything to him as a wife to make him get to that point to where want to cheat on me. Like we had been through stuff and things like that, but I didn't think the whole like calling the cops on him and getting assaulted by a cop was like grounds for cheating on your wife and putting me through situations of my foot getting run over in a Dave and Buster's parking lot after you're someone. And then trying to leave me abandoned an hour from home. I just remember telling him, like, your twinkle in your eye is completely gone. He's just like, I know, know. But the crazy part is through all of this, we stayed in communications. When I packed up my Jeep and left to Colorado, I went on my first skiing trip. And that's when I began began collecting tattoos. I get a different tattoo in every state that I travel to, but I kind of stayed in contact with him. And like I said, I tried reaching out to the girl that he's currently with and was completely ignored. She never sent me one message, which is like, maybe in her position I would do the same thing. But if I think about it, if I knew someone was missing their court dates, cheated on their wife after 13 years, destroyed an entire family, moved across the country and left their wife abandoned to where she had to live out of her car because I couldn't, with my income, there was absolutely no way I could afford a place on my own. I've never lived on my own. I've never owned, like, lived and rented an apartment or anything like that. And, and some money from selling our house is not enough for me to be paying a thousand plus dollars just to live by myself. So everybody was like, you need to just get a job, you need to get an apartment or whatever. And I was literally not even capable of, like, waking up at a decent time during the day. I was like, I. I'm not going to be able to. Like, I know that I have the strength and I can, but I'm so tired of being strong from all the other stuff that I've endured in my life. Like, right now I just like it. It was like something that I've always thought was cool and fun. I see people living in their cars and like, I've always wanted to do it, but I thought I would be doing it like with a partner or like, because, like, I wanted to because of a good situation. But I was like, no, I'm just gonna do that, save some money and hit the road and travel. So is that what you're doing now? So now through all of that, the past three years, I had since met someone and, and we were together on and off for three years throughout my travels. A big terrible part of all of that was I ended up getting pregnant by him. And that was shocking to my body. And I didn't know how I was going to, like, keep this baby. And I was still kind of talking to John throughout all of this and living on the road in my car. I had nothing to my name but a few clothes and a few, few dishes. But yeah, I had met n through all of this and he was kind of there through, like my whole divorce. And it kind of started as a friendship and stuff, but I was living from my car and I had gone everywhere from, like, Colorado down to Florida.

A (133:25)

How long did you live in your car?

B (133:26)

For like, January 2022 until the end of last year. I want to say it's kind of hard to explain because I got the car at first And I was traveling the country and like I went to Disney World for my, the first time when I was 30 and I went up to South Carolina many times trying to work on my marriage throughout the divorce, back to Indiana and to Pennsylvania. And at one point I was like, I was so enjoying the SUV life. Like there was. I made like a pull out table to have like a kitchen and stuff on it, like this chest. I was keeping all my clothes in. Like I had the twinkle lights and everything. It was like the whole shebang. And it was fun. I was making a ton of content with the car. But it got kind of scary at night and it was really good for me in the, in the fact that like, it forced me to have to get up out of bed in the morning because I needed to find a place to use the bathroom. I needed to find somewhere to eat. I've got to find a good place to sleep at night so I could cover my windows and be discreet and nobody would see where I was at and things like that. So it like forced me to like live basically. And then during the day I'm like not going to be cooped up in the car. I'm going to hike and kayak and go to Disney. And so I was doing all these fun things and making fun, like content and things like that. And I love. Still to this day I still tell my friends, like, I kind of miss living in my Jeep. Like, I miss SUV life because it's so adventurous and every day is like a completely new, different day. But I got very tired of not having like a place to feel like was home. But I still was not in a position after going through divorce to where I could afford a place of my own. So I found a little 1960 vintage camper on Facebook marketplace for 8,000 bucks. And I scrounged up some money and went. And this place was in the middle of nowhere. I drove there and I was like, I'm just going to go freaking see this camp or whatever. And I show up to these people's property and it's literally like there's no service, no nothing. And they're like, oh, if you want to stay and like test out the camper and sleep here tonight like you can or if you want. And like, it's kind of creepy. I feel like anybody else would put themselves in that position, but they were like, come in and have dinner with us or whatever. And I'm like, okay. So I come in and I wasn't getting any like weird creepy vibes or anything from Them. So I go in and I have dinner and we're all just like awkwardly sitting, sitting on the couch, like, as we're making this, like, business transaction for this camper. And they're like, we're not serial killers. We're not gonna murder you. And I'm like, that's what a serial killer would say. Okay. But I was just like, literally, I was still so freaking lost and all over the place. I was crying every night. I was calling my friends, like, literally, like so, so desperately lonely. And not because I was just like, oh, I need someone with me. I just like, I could never imagine myself in my 30s, 30s, like this, like, living from my car and trying to find a camper to live from and wanting to be adventurous but not having the money to do it and trying to like, build up my business of the interior design and the wedding singing and stuff like that. So through all of this is when I got pregnant and I approached and who I was pregnant by. And he had been through a like, kind of crazy relationship where they got the girl got pregnant, and he wasn't sure if it was even his, but she was saying it was his and there was cheating involved and yada yada. And he was just like, I'm like, really turned off by these situations. I don't know what to do. If you want to keep it, if you. If not, like, it's up to you. But I don't want kids and I don't want a kid right now. And so I was like, oh my God, how the did I end up pregnant in all of this? I thought I was infertile. 13 years of unprotected sex with my husband. Like, we've never used protection. I thought I was the problem. So potentially it was probably him. And apparently I am fertile and now I'm pregnant and homeless. Like, I can't do this. So I was just like, not taking care of myself. I got the camper. My mother in law actually went to go get it with me to South Carolina, brought it back up here to Indiana, booked a wedding. My wedding business, I sing and play acoustic guitar for ceremonies. And the f. The camper I turned into a photo booth for receptions. So they get to have like the little vintage Polaroids and like, it's this whole, like shebang, this whole experience for weddings. And I turned it into something really adorable. I show up there in Indiana the day before the wedding that I'm supposed to go to. I get in a wreck at the end of the. The street of where this woman Lives and completely demolished the entire side of the camp. It is torn to shreds, shambles. Like, okay, you don't get your photo booth for your wedding. I'm sorry. But like, I could still do music. It was fine. She was like a friend of mine, so she was understanding. But I wrecked the camper. So I'm like, okay, I just got this camper. This is my home. I'm pregnant. Like, I literally don't know how life could get any worse. So I start fixing up the camper all summer long. I think this was the year of 2023 and trying to get it ready to go back on the road and still do weddings and stuff cross country. I ended up like, I, I was in such bad shape and not taking care of myself. I ended up losing the baby. I lost the baby. I was alone, like in my. My friends had a funeral to go to or whatever. I was in their apartment. That was probably the most physically painful experience I've ever been through was losing a child. And n, like, wasn't there for me for any of that. He was just kind of like frozen, like, didn't know what to do, wasn't invested in any of this. John in Pennsylvania passing saw that someone, a. A friend of mine's brother messaged me on Facebook messenger and was like, I heard that you're like, you're going to have a baby or whatever. Like, don't doubt yourself as a mother, mother. You're going to be an amazing mother. This and that. And John still had access to my logins for messengers. So that's how he found out that I was pregnant. And he called me and would leave multiple messages just like crying and sobbing and like, I don't know what to do. Like, throughout all of this was just like constantly calling me on the phone. We would talk for hours and he would cry and I would cry and it was just like very trauma Bondi the whole time. And I, I'm assuming that a lot of people going through divorce and cheating and stuff like that experience the whole trauma bond and stuff, but it was very new to me and I still didn't know how to handle that. And especially with having just lost a baby, like, my emotions are a wreck. But I was on my way. We decided we were getting, getting the divorce. The divorce was finalized. So I packed up the camper. After finally fixing it, I, I got it all done. I was on a live stream about to leave Indiana to get out of that state again. And someone reported me on Tick Tock for like child Abuse. My niece was like, in the video somewhere and they. They reported me and got my live streams banned on TikTok. So that took away like 80% of my income. So I was like, struggling again. And luckily I have this camper in my car that I don't have to pay rent or mortgage for. But I decided to head to Pennsylvania and n and I kind of like, kept in touch and we're friends and John and I, like, we're done and he's got his thing going on with Marissa down there. I was struggling finding like a place to park the camper and. And winter was coming and they didn't have spaces open or whatever. And he was like, just stay here. He's like, park the camper here. You have a place to stay. You're more than welcome to, like, use the house. His house he purchased in Pennsylvania. I turned it into an Airbnb and I run and manage that now. And when people stay in the house, I stay in my little camper. So every once in a while when I travel or I hit the road and decide to go to a new place or visit a friend or family or whatever, I'll either take the SUV and pack it all up for like, SUV type life or I'll take the camper. But the Jeep's really bad with like, gas and stuff like that, so I try not to take the camper as much. But I'm kind of like settled a little bit in Pennsylvania now where I've got some roots and I've booked some weddings and I'm doing a bunch of interior design. So I'm managing and co hosting Airbnbs Bees in that area and designing all of them. So that's fun. I feel a little bit better and more stable and set in, like, what I'm doing and who I am as a person. Just the. The trauma of everything, of going through something like that was a lot to deal with at the time. And yeah, I just wanted to touch on when people go through cheating and stuff like that, I feel like they just kind of say it in passing like, oh, I was cheating on, cheated on. And it's not that big of a deal. People don't make a big deal out of it, but it could be some of the most, like, heartbreaking, traumatizing times of people's lives. I don't know why it's not talked about more. I hate that it's so common and so it's very. It's very strange and hard to get used to starting over and dating in your 30s again with no kids. People were telling me when I went through the loss of the baby that I was better off because it would have been harder with kids struggling and going through a divorce and cheating and stuff like that. But at the same time, like, in my position, I was seeing it as I had nothing to live for. Like, I felt every single day that I was dying. I was alone, I had nobody to take care of, my cats were gone. Like, I had nothing getting me out of bed until I was living STV life from my car, trying to find food for every day. And, you know, I just have a cooler with ice and just trying to, like, make sure that the ice is stocked so my flu doesn't go bad. Like, that kept me going. But I think that for my type of personality, had I had kids, I think I would have done better and maybe not made so many harsh decisions. I mean, who's to say how I would really have reacted in that place? But I think I was literally spiraling because I had nothing. I went to South Carolina once, and I met up with John. And again, when we're going back and forth trying to work on things. Things. He was with this girl at this time, and he was like, yeah, it's crazy. Like, I just want to. I want to live this single life and, like, be to myself and have fun or whatever, because I never had a chance and I never got to do stuff. I'm like, yes, we did. Like, we did so much with our lives. We. We lived our lives to the fullest, but he just wanted to experience this, like, singleness, but then jumps right into a serious relationship and then tells me. I'm like, what. What. What made you stop looking at me like, oh, my gosh. Like, Jenny, like, this is my precious wife that I would never do anything to. I would never hurt her. I would never let anything happen to her. What made you freaking flip a switch? And at one point, we're just staring at the sunset on the ocean together, and he was like, your body just got old to me. And I was like, oh, that's traumatizing. Thanks. Like, I. What am I supposed to do with that? And I'm just listening to him, like. And, like, I feel like I'm just going numb with every little stupid thing that he would say to me like that. Like, okay, thanks for being honest, I guess. But, like, you couldn't tell me that years ago or so it was me and my body or whatever. He's like, oh, I just wanted to try something new. I. It was Different. She was just there. It was just someone to talk to. But he never had anything to do with her after the fact. Fact. But I think he was turned off after the fact that like, I reached out to her so, so many times and she wouldn't listen to like, stop and stop involving herself. Like, at least until it's, can I just finalize my divorce and then you can have him? Like, I just need to get through this without you continually showing up and like sleeping in my car, you know? And I got so fed up with it one time that I showed up at her house and I knocked and her mom like, knew who I was. Like when I opened the door and. And she's just like, Carrie. So I go inside the house and I had a big talk with her parents and everything there present. And she was just kind of like acting like nothing. Like she lived at home with her parents, was spoiled, they bought her her car. Like mommy and daddy gave her everything. And I was like, what makes you so special to like come into a 13 year long relationship and think that you're so much better than me to be sleeping with my husband and like, he's going to leave me for you. Like, I. And it sounds so stupid to even say, but that's literally where my, my freaking brain was at at the time. And she was just like, I don't know. Like, he was just like. He just like did sweet stuff for me and he got me my drinks and stuff that I liked at work and she was petting her dog. Your. Her dad's sitting there and I don't think he was. Well, like, I think he was kind of sick. And I was like, I hope one day you walk down the aisle of your wedding day and your dad knows that he's walking his daughter down the aisle knowing that she destroyed another person's marriage. Like, you do not deserve, deserve to have a wedding and a marriage of your own like this because you have no respect for marriage whatsoever. The fact that you're sitting here in front of your parents telling me that what you were doing is okay and that you still like, she just like, didn't want to stop. She was like, I want to be with him and he says that he likes me and blah, blah. And I'm like, you are talking to me about my husband right now. And her mom and her dad were like, carrie, what is wrong with you? Like, they were agreeing with me and they were like, honestly, like, that's what I'm going to be thinking if she walks on the wedding on her wedding day. They're like, this is disgusting. We did not raise you like this or whatever. And she was just like, shrugged her shoulders and like, didn't care. And I'm like, I hope that you think of me when you walk down your, walk down the aisle. I was like, you literally have no respect for marriage. You don't deserve a marriage of yourself unless you freaking open your eyes and see what you're doing and have some sort of remorse or like, literally showing no empathy right now. You have no care in the world. And she was like, you need to have, like, respect for my privacy in my life. And I can't believe that my mom let you hear inside the house. I was like, your mom let me in with open arms, like, so that I could come talk to you and we can like, kind of get through to you to like, please just stay away from him. He's obviously lying to you and manipulating you too, or he wouldn't be talking about you behind your back and saying that he wants to be, be married and work on his marriage or whatever. Like, if he wanted to legit be with you, then okay. But like, I'm literally trying to fight here for my marriage. I told her, I was like, that's, that's, that's all I have to say. She's like, you have no respect for my privacy and this and that. And I was like, you're my husband. Do you hear yourself? And her mom just was like, over the, like, the way she was acting, she's like, this is done. She's like, she's not gonna stop. We can't control her. This is just who she is. Like, and it was really embarrassing to, to like, be in front of someone and their parents, like, when they're siding with me and not their daughter. And that's, that's where I get, like, messed up when it comes to. It's not just men. It's. It's women too. Like, women cheat on their husbands just as much. But I, I just don't understand the not being a girl's girl type person and not like, the second I were to find out about someone sleeping with me and they're married, like, like, I. I don't know. I just, I don't know why people do it. Yeah, it, it's crazy to me. Hopefully it gives a little bit of perspective on how, like, it can destroy someone's self esteem and self worth and their families and their future. Like, now I just feel like I, I'm not completely healed by everything, but I'm getting there. And so my story is not coming from someone like others that you've had, where they've lived through it, they've grown, they've. They're completely better. Like, I'm not 100%, but I'm coming out of it. And I just want people out there to see the bigger picture and to, to have respect for people's marriages. And like, I, I very much so. I'm a stickler now for, like, if the person is not fully divorced, just don't. Like, some people are like, oh, well, they've been separated or they're like going through something, they want to get divorced. Like, you do not know what is happening behind closed doors, divorce. You do not know what someone is lying to their spouse about or lying to you about if they are not fully, completely divorced and that person is still a part of the lives, especially if they've got kids involved. Just don't.

A (149:23)

You did incredible. And, you know, I think that the, the areas that you touched on, like you, you touched on, I feel like every stage of grief, denial, confusion, anger, frustrate, like literally every emotion that you felt, I feel like you touched on and you were, like I said, you were so honest and open about it, and I appreciate that so much. And I know, like you said, I mean it. It is so common that people get cheated on. And, you know, whether someone's married or not, I'm sure so many people can relate to all of those different emotions and feelings. And, you know, a lot of people too, whether they're in a marriage or even just in a serious relationship for years, they rely on that other person, person for stability. And, you know, whether that's with a house or just having both incomes and being able to live on their own or with that person, you know, with the help of the person especially too, if you're in a relationship for that long and you think, like, yeah, this is my future, you know, people are comfortable doing that, and then if everything falls apart, it leaves that person. Like, well, what do I do now? Do I go back home? Okay, if I don't have that option, where does that leave me? You know what I mean? So I feel like in so many different aspects of your story and journey, people would be able to relate to that. But it's sad.

B (150:42)

It could be life. It's like life shattering.

A (150:44)

Yeah, for, oh, 100%.

B (150:46)

And even if it's not, even if it's the person who wants and initiates the divorce, it's still hard. It's still Something traumatizing to go through. And it's giving you a new title now of diversity Divorce.

A (150:55)

The thing is, the thing is too is even when you heal from it and you're through it, it, like you said, it, it does give you a complete, completely new perspective and outlook on relationships and trust. And it's almost like not only are you starting back from the beginning, but you're almost starting even further.

B (151:13)

Yeah.

A (151:14)

Behind. Because now you have this outlook of such negativity.

B (151:18)

Oh, yeah. And I hate that. Done.

A (151:21)

Yeah.

B (151:21)

Because like you said, like, I love love and I am such a hopeless romantic. Like, I am a 110 effort when it comes to relationship. And I'm a long term relationship type girl. I went through like a very, very short, brief, what people would call a hoe phase. Like, my friends, like, you just gotta go out there and like sleep around and live it up or whatever. And I'm like, I put my toe in the water and it's not for me. That's not how I am. So I hate that. Like, everything that happened is so skewed now. And I'm trying not to look at it as like, depressingly as my brain thinks about it or my heart sees it. But it's also difficult, like starting kind of new and fresh and getting into dating because I had something so freaking good. Like, I was 100% invested, protected, loved, taken care of, what I thought was respected most of my relationship. I, I saw no red flags. Like in the beginning, really. I was so set and confident that, like, how do I, how do I date and not compare people?

A (152:30)

And not only that, but how do you find someone that might be really, really great and might not ever cheat, but not have the thoughts in the back of your mind of like, okay, well, my last relationship started. Yeah, it's great too.

B (152:43)

Who's to say this one isn't gonna fizzle out or even sooner or even longer?

A (152:47)

And it's not even to be negative. I don't think people understand that. I don't think it's about being negative, but it's more so about being realistic and almost setting up that.

B (152:54)

Yeah.

A (152:55)

That wall for yourself so that you're not led to disappointment.

B (152:58)

Yeah. And it's, it's. I mean, how am I not supposed to? Like, I'm so jaded from everything now and I don't want to be that way. Like, I've said multiple times to my friends, like, I do not want to become the bitter, angry, I hate men girl, because that is not me. I've Always been.

A (153:15)

That doesn't always happen. Like, I. I've had my fair share of just, like, bad relationships or just bad people. And they've all been so different. And for. And I will be, like, the first to sit here and say that. Like, I think most people cheat, but that doesn't mean, like, I love men. I think men are great. I think that they get a lot done. Well, not. Not men of my generation, actually.

B (153:40)

But, like, you know, like, you want to. You want to give them the benefit.

A (153:45)

No, they're. I think men are great for so many different reasons. And I would love. I would love to find love again.

B (153:52)

You know what I mean?

A (153:52)

Like, I wouldn't be opposed, but I also wouldn't be shocked if it didn't work out.

B (153:58)

Yeah.

A (153:59)

Because.

B (153:59)

And then it's sad that we have that outlook.

A (154:02)

I. I am also a relationship girl. I love relationships. I love to give and have somebody. I'm like a homebody, so. And I love my animals. And I've gotten to a point now where I love my alone time.

B (154:16)

I love.

A (154:17)

Like, I just got into reading and I like, I love being home and I like to work out and to just spend time with my pets. That's like, my thing. But at the same time, like, I.

B (154:27)

It's the loneliness.

A (154:28)

Yeah. And like, I. There isn't anything that can replace that feeling of, like. And I'm not even just talking about company, because the wrong company, you want them to leave. Like, it's just not worth it. But, like, when you really, really feel that connection to somebody. And honestly, it's interesting. Not everyone that's in a relationship feels that connection either. That's not always something either. Like, some people settle or some people are like, yeah, like, you know, it works. You know, and they're whatever the. Do you.

B (154:56)

Yeah.

A (154:56)

But, like, that's another thing. I don't care to just be in something, to be in something. Like, I need to feel that deep connection and that spark. And, like, it's so rare. Yeah, it's very rare. And I've. And like, that kind of goes back to what I was saying as well. It kind of is unfortunate too, because, like, I've only really felt that once in my life. But even, like, looking back, like, that person and I didn't treat each other the best. I mean, granted, we were so young, but, like, I don't know, it just. It. Love is a very confusing thing to me. And even to this day, it still doesn't make much sense. Sense. But like I said, like, would I love to share my life with someone and have it be somebody that I have a strong connection with and I'm so in love with and infatuated with. Yes. But then I also look at things where, like, I was talking about this recently with my friends, you know, in multiple points in. I've had been in many different relationships, whether they were short or longer. Well, who the cares? But, like, at some point in all of those relationships, I would look at that person and think in my head, like, oh, this is what I've always wanted. Or, like, even if it only lasted for like a month, like, there were points where I had that thought. But then over time, it just faded. Or we. Or we stopped getting along, or I realized over time this wasn't actually what I thought it was. Or maybe I looked at them as more of a best friend and not so much of, like a romantic partner. I don't know, for whatever reason. But it just.

B (156:19)

I've.

A (156:19)

I don't think I've ever found something where, like, it's been one way in the beginning and it stayed that way. And, like, obviously I'm single, so obviously I haven't found it. But, like, I don't. I don't know. And there is a part of me that wonders, do I think anything is forever? No. I mean, nothing really is forever.

B (156:39)

Yeah.

A (156:39)

We're not on this earth forever. We don't have our animals, we don't have our parents, our friend.

B (156:44)

We.

A (156:44)

Nothing is forever. So, like. Yeah. Would it be nice to have that? Yes. And I do believe that you can have that. But I think it's for a period of time.

B (156:56)

Yeah. Yeah. And that's been kind of weird, like, getting used to. Because, like, it. Not only through all of that did I feel like I was grieving someone who was not dead. Like, the grief that you go through.

A (157:09)

Yeah.

B (157:10)

With something like that. That even with them being there right next to you or on the phone, like, I literally not only felt like I was dying, but I was like, he is no longer here. This is not the person I married. This is not my best friend. Like, I literally. I've never lost a family member up until August or. I'm sorry, October 1st of this week. I just lost my first grandpa. I never lost a family member my whole life. So I've never grieved in that way. And I don't know what that feels like. And this was the first thing that I could, like, kind of equate to that was like, he is literally dead. He doesn't care about me. He's gone.

A (157:47)

He's someone that's still alive. That is like a different.

B (157:50)

It is something. Torture.

A (157:52)

Torture.

B (157:52)

It's literally torture.

A (157:54)

I was explaining that. I literally used that line, like, a couple months ago. I was like, it's literally like grieving some, like, grieving a death. But the person's still alive.

B (158:01)

They're still alive. And not only are they still alive, but he chose. Chose to do that. I'm not divorced or widowed or didn't end up homeless or whatever because it's just they died or something happened. He literally chose to do that over and over and over. And he admitted to me, you know, it's not. It wasn't a mistake. Like, I did it by choice. And, like, hearing somebody say these things is. Is very traumatizing. And then you're grieving this person that's still here. And I've envisioned having kids with this person being old. Like, we were literally, like, we would see the old couple down the street, like, walking and dancing to, like, oh, my God, it's us in the future. Like, all of the choices that were made for me throughout those three years, like, felt like it was out of my control. Like, he's choosing to do this. My friends choosing to leave my. This that. Like, none of it felt like it was in my control. And I'm grieving all these things and all of these losses, and now what the Is my future? Like, I don't know how I'm supposed to not compare a man to what he was in the beginning, because that treatment that I got from John is what I think I deserve, if not more. Is. Are there very many men out there that are gonna do that? No. They can't even freaking text you back after a freaking week. Like, the. The little tiny bits of crumbs that they leave for us is so depressing. And knowing that he's out there giving this girl, like, this just princess treatment. And I'm sorry, but they don't deserve it. Like, you don't deserve to, like, have my husband, like, taking care of you and loving on you when he did what he did to me. And you were enter inserting yourself in someone else's marriage. Like, I think that's so up that people do that. And that's just how cheaters are and how narcissists are. And, like, I think most of the time you see the situation when people are involved in a relationship where there's cheating. The one that was betrayed is usually the one that's the single for long. Like, they struggle with The. They're. They're not safe. They don't know how to let their guard down. They don't know how to trust again. And then the cheater is the one. Oh, yeah, they've. They've got kids, they've been married. They're with this person, that person. They cheated again, because they know how to, like, reel people in. And there is a certain personality trait that I think that those people have got to contain to, like, make it that easy. I don't think it should be that easy to just, like, betray your person or whatever. And he's told me himself, too. Like, from his mouth. All I need is the fact that I'm the tallest, funniest guy in the room. Like. And these girls are so desperate these days, Jenny. Like, he literally confessed to me, never forget these girls. Like, I can show up and give them a Snickers bar. And it's like I bent over backwards because that's her favorite candy bar. And it's like, they're so desperate for attention. You could do the littlest, most minuscule thing. I mean, it's like that.

A (160:48)

It's giving him validation, though, like, G's, proving that he's so low within himself that, like, it's entertaining him and giving him the validation that he needs. Needs by getting that attention from women.

B (161:01)

I also think that he's probably not giving this girl that he's with the same treatment that he gave me because he knows that he can do less. And it's so amazing, you know, now.

A (161:12)

That it doesn't hold value.

B (161:13)

Yeah, exactly.

A (161:14)

It just doesn't. Like, it sucks, but it doesn't.

B (161:16)

But I genuinely don't. I. I don't think, like, he'll. He'll still call me. He called me the other day, and I didn't answer. I'm like, are you dying? And he's like, no, sorry, not yet. I just wanted to have a good cry. I hadn't. Something about, like, I had problems. I'm something. I hadn't talked to you in a while, and I wanted a good cry, but I think I'm better now. And I'm like, I'm walking into work. He's like, I hope you have a good shift. And, like, the last time he spoke to me, I mean, the girl that he's with does not know. He's on the phone with me for hours, crying. And I just let. Like, he talks about the fat past and the future that we would have been. And he's so sorry and this and that and the things that he tells me about the girl that he's with. Should I be answering him? No. But I wasn't in a relationship, so I was entertaining it. If I'm with someone, I'm not going to be answering phone calls from my ex. But, like, I was entertaining it just because I was bored or lonely or whatever. And I don't think she would be okay knowing that he's on the phone with his ex wife saying the things that he's saying or whatever. And I just, like, it blows my mind that I, he doesn't see, like, what he's doing. Like, I, he. He hasn't gotten helped. And I feel like most people like that don't or won't get help because that is a serious, like, mental issue and you're affecting other people's lives.

A (162:25)

And the thing is, I think a lot of times people are going to sit in that until it bites them in the ass. And it just really, it hasn't. And unfortunately, losing you and what you guys had wasn't enough.

B (162:36)

Yeah.

A (162:37)

But, you know, and could I sit here and be positive and say, oh, with time you'll find the right person? No, I'm not going to do that because I don't. I don't know.

B (162:47)

I don't. Oh, I hate hearing that when people are like, time heals everything.

A (162:53)

I just, I would never sit there and say that.

B (162:56)

It's.

A (162:56)

I just think it's.

B (162:57)

That's the worst.

A (162:58)

What I, the only thing that I would say is I think that you've been through a lot, obviously, like, and a lot. A lot of different emotions, and it still is pretty fresh, you know? And I think that, like you said, you're finally finding yourself now. Like, who are you? Like, on your own.

B (163:18)

Yeah.

A (163:18)

And I think that one of the most healing things that you can do right now, one of the things that's going to make you the most proud of yourself right now is to keep working on your own personal growth.

B (163:31)

Yeah.

A (163:32)

Because the moment, I think that you reach a point where you're genuinely like, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of lonely at points and it would be nice to have somebody, but I don't need it.

B (163:43)

Yeah. Like.

A (163:43)

And you get to a point where, like, you realize that if between now and the time you're off this earth, you never had a partner, you'd be all right with that.

B (163:54)

Yeah.

A (163:55)

Because, like, you can provide for yourself, you can take care of yourself, you can get yourself whatever you need. Like, when you reach that point, I think that it comes with a Different. A different feeling of power. And then that becomes more addicting than, like, the feeling of, like. Like looking for love. I mean, like, I. Yeah, it's just something I want. Yeah. And don't worry. I get it. Like, there. There's been points in my life where all. It's like, I would literally say all I want is love. Like, all I want is to feel love. And it's like you're chasing it. You're chasing. You're looking, you're looking. And then everybody says, well, it's when you're looking that you don't find it. It's like, it's always the same. I don't know what's true and what's not.

B (164:32)

Yeah.

A (164:33)

Like, I think somebody would be lying if they said they didn't want. Like. Like, if they, like, look, I have a side of me that, like, I'm like, I don't. I don't need it. I don't want it. I'm fine. And then I have this other side of me that I have all of these desires of, like, what I. If I did get married one day, what I'd. What I would want it to look like where I would want it to be.

B (164:52)

Who wants to be alone? Nobody. Yeah.

A (164:53)

And, like, everybody doesn't want to have that kind of stuff. But I just can't sit here and say that it's gonna happen, because I don't know.

B (165:01)

No. And I'm. I'm a. I call myself a positive, positive pessimist. Like, I try not to be negative, but I don't want to be, like, a Debbie Downer or anything, but, like, I'm a realist. Like, time. Time. I'm sorry. Time doesn't heal anything. It just makes it a little bit easier to bear. You just get used to it. Some people just get numb. And I wish that that was my personality, to just be, like, happy, hunky Dorian, everything's fine. Like, I would have survived this much better and maybe not try taking my own life and maybe had been in a better, healthy situation where I wouldn't have lost a baby and stuff. Like, I. I. I just. I don't see it like that. And I. I don't know. It. It. It skews your view on a lot of things. And again, I don't want to be negative or anything, but I do think that the most important part in life, my favorite word of all, is love. Like, that is literally at the end of the day, nobody wakes up on their deathbed one day and says, man, I Wish I worked more. I should have worked longer. I wish I would have not. Like, nobody says those types of things. Like, in the end of the day, it's love, your family, yourself. Like, you wake up and in the morning after a long. Like, you are the only person there for yourself after everything that you go through, I think it is very important to find yourself and be happy with what you do and with your life. For sure. I just am one of those types of people that, like, I. I desire so deeply to have someone to enjoy it with.

A (166:26)

Yeah.

B (166:26)

And it's.

A (166:27)

And I think. And I. I hope for you, honestly, I hope for the both of us.

B (166:32)

Yeah.

A (166:32)

That we can find that. But, you know, I think at this moment, like I was saying, it's like you just have to put that love into other things. You put it into yourself, you put it into your business, put it into animals. Like, you know, we go through different phases in life. Like, not every phase. It's not all supposed to be just one big phase of the same thing, you know, like, you have this phase of where you were married and you. You got that experience, and, you know, hopefully one day you get that again. You know what I mean? And there's people that go through a million marriages looking for that. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you never know what life has in store for you, but in each. It's almost like we have to learn to adapt to each phase. And we. You know, we can love. Love and still display it, but we kind of shift where. Into what we're displaying it to.

B (167:21)

Yeah.

A (167:21)

And it's like, right now in this phase of your life, on yourself.

B (167:26)

Yeah.

A (167:26)

Well, you did amazing. Seriously. Thank you so much for wanting to come on.

B (167:30)

Yeah.

A (167:30)

And sharing and being so vulnerable because so many people are gonna. So many people will relate and understand.

B (167:36)

But something like this.

A (167:37)

Yeah. It's so common, and it sucks, but it is. But you did amazing, so thank you.