Mental Health Advocate (4:25)

And this was out after high school?

Frances (4:27)

Yeah, this is out of high school. So all of this is out of high school. I just. We just happen to both be at the high school as older people. This actually the second time I had set up for them because they played the turnabout assembly, like. And we're all. This is like, our adult jobs just at the school. So I also. There's that, like, you meet them twice theory. So I kind of felt like this sort of falls in line with that. Like, we met and then we met again when he was playing, and he actually was in another band that played the second night right after the first band played, and that was the night that we really like talked afterwards. And then I remember getting the Facebook friend notification the next morning and he messaged me, we started chatting and we got coffee. So then I found out he had been sober for five years at that point in time too. So it's kind of funny because I was out there like drinking and dancing around and that's how we like noticed each other. He noticed me noticing him noticing me kind of. And after that we kind of took it slow really, so. But we became really good friends at that point. And so that's like August because I remember the school year was about to start for both of us. I actually went to see him before I went to work because since he was a teacher he hadn't started up yet. And he comes down in his Harley motorcycle and stuff and I was. That was pretty cool to see. And then our next time we hung out, I got to go on my first motorcycle ride. So that was fun. And I took him somewhere that I knew in the southern Wisconsin area. But we both took our time finding each other. Cuz we both dated somebody else before we actually got together. But I remember I helped him move out of his mom's into his first house that he bought that was also in Wisconsin. My parents had this giant white conversion band at the time. And he asked for some help moving from friends and stuff. And I was like, sure, I'm happy to because I really like this guy, might as well help him. But I still had a date to go on after I helped move. I went to Great America, Six Flags, one of those places out by us in Gurney. But yeah, they were so impressed with me coming up with the big van and we filled it all up and I remember meeting his mom that day and his brother and things like that. And we got like a free sandwich, but I left early to go on my date. And then I started to help him paint and I would start to come over and hang out and pretty much ended up figuring out that I didn't want to miss my chance with him because he had given me this hat that I had hanging in my room too. And it was one of those, you're sitting in your bed at night and I just looking at it, I'm like, I don't know, I don't want to miss my opportunity with this. Like what? Something doesn't seem right where I'm at now. I want to talk to this person more. And then after that I think we kind of just hung out all the time. I'd say I was staying over there a lot. And then I moved in. This is 2019, because actually New Year's Eve of 2019 was our first kiss. I remember we were just at his place and I was just drinking some wine and we were watching the ball drop and all that. And we did. I've been doing it ever since. You start with your right foot on the ground, so you start off the year on the right foot. You just don't have your left foot on the ground. So it's just. So you start the year off on the right foot. And I made him do that with me and I thought it was really cute. So that was our first remembrance. So New Year's Eve was always kind of nice for us. And we have pretty much spent it together every year, except for these past two now, so. But that kind of really takes the full start of our love story. And I'd say I lived with him at the house for about a year or so before he proposed to me, which was great. That was in April of 2020? Yeah, 2020. It was actually on my dad's birthday. Funny enough, I don't think he knew that, but that's fine. And yeah, we were out by the water. He went to Carthage College, actually, so that's not too far from where we lived at the time. And we took a motorcycle ride and he got out by kissing Rock. And there was nobody there because it was Covid. Everything was shut down. And that's where he proposed. And there's actually two people in the library right across the way, I guess. And they came out and started cheering for us and it was pretty funny. And so we were definitely pretty happy and that was very exciting. But planning a wedding was very intimidating for both of us, I think. And we did the best we could. But I think he had a really hard time with that because that's when after he got used to teaching from home as a teacher during COVID like, that was a little nerve wracking, I think, for him. And then I was just ready to go and do stuff again, I think, personally. So I think we were pretty happy during the slow time of COVID And except for when he had to like pop on Zoom for classes, he was always like, I don't know what I'm doing. Especially because he was a music teacher. So it's kind of hard to teach music through a Zoom class. But I think he figured it out very well. It was the imposter syndrome. I always tried to remind him. He definitely grew up with mental health his whole life. And I think I struggled with that too, a lot, but not as clearly as he did, I guess, maybe, or like we didn't bring it up to the forefront when I was younger. It was kind of just something we figured out how I could cope and what I could do. And I think my whole family was just generally pretty active, which helped with a lot of my issues that I had going now to sort of his growth, because that's, you know, we're married, we're happy. We did have a little shaking kind of after the wedding with his mom and things like that. But nothing that I would say would affect how he decided to do death by suicide at all. It was more my mental health and then him showing that he could support me at that point in time because it was sort of like we switched. I was struggling for a while and he opened me to the world of possibly getting a psychiatrist. And my mom, actually before that, found me a therapist for a little bit that was super helpful. Going from there. I finally decided that a psychiatrist might be good because I had a really hard time concentrating. And he suggested it to me because he's been on things for a long time. There was lots of pills in the medicine cabinet. He was a grade school teacher. So this is. They actually had anywhere from three year olds, sometimes all the way to like the fifth grade. So that's maybe eight, nine, I think. I'm not positive, but around that range. So, like lots of kids that he was always seeing and that would definitely overwhelm him, no doubt. So as he kind of figured out the not so overwhelming of the zoom, but got past the imposter syndrome, he was very helpful for me. And the band was picking up too. So we did a. We were very busy with the band a lot. That was a, like pretty much the other half of our lives, other than what we did with our jobs and our dog Harley, she's the best. She's been affected by this too, honestly. You can tell she's seen it. And it was very sudden, everything. So. Because at that point I was still also working at a school. So we're back to where we're working. And he was doing pretty good with all of his virtual things. So that was all through, I think the spring, but before we got to there, I switched jobs and I started working from home, actually, instead of at the schools. And we moved. So we sold our house in Wisconsin and then moved back to Northern Illinois. It was definitely worth it. We had a really nice area. We were by a forest preserve. So the dog loved It. And there was a lake. We could walk around and everything. It was beautiful. I definitely miss it because we had to. Had to move out of there eventually after everything. So we're living in our house there. And it's doing. We're doing pretty good. It's normal. It's 2021. We have our 2022 year, and we're in Chicago on New Year's Eve night with the band at this one place that now has a little sign up for them saying, like, their name street, which is pretty cute. That was really fun. He was happy. He was getting in the groove with his band. They had an additional saxophonist join the band, which kind of intimidated him at first. But then they became like the best of friends and really, really close and could play like they had been playing together for years, honestly. And one thing he did throughout all of his band endeavors was trade and sell saxophones. So at any one given point, we probably had three to five saxophones in the house. But he eventually ended up with, like, one of the really big saxophones, the baritone, and then his original tenor, a really cool older one that he got engraved with his older brother's designs. And then an alto saxophone. So it's like all the different variations of tone, basically. And that comes into play a little later. Something that I'll say, so keep that in mind. When I got to know Pat at the beginning of everything, we really talked about a lot of the things that happened in our past. And I could kind of tell there was a lot more that happened in his past. And he opened up pretty quickly and told me about how when he was a junior in high school, his oldest brother actually died by suicide also. And he was a sophomore in college, I think, at like, Arizona State. He was always like kind of a black sheep person, as he would be explained. Like, long, dark hair, quiet artist person. Kind of really liked that dark, moody type of art and things like that. So I know he struggled with, like, being bullied in high school from what I've been told from his brother's story. So their family definitely suffered from that. And they. He had his dad, his mom, and then his younger brother after that. And so he was kind of. The older brother left at that point, but then I'm not sure on the timing, but a couple, I think maybe three or four years later, his dad suddenly passed also in the kitchen, randomly. They didn't figure out what. But I think it was something with the heart or something like that. Cause he was a really healthy guy. He had actually just stopped Drinking with Pat, my husband, when he decided to stop drinking in college, which was a little bit after his brother had passed, too. And he didn't start drinking until he got to college either. So he was definitely one of those good kids. So. But he had already been on all. He was on sleeping pills since he was, like, 4, and on a bunch of other different things to help with, like, mood swings and stuff like that. And I didn't always fully ask what everything was for, but he definitely was telling me. And then I would be that snoopy girlfriend and look up what it was after. I'd see it in the medicine cabinet just to, like, be aware. Just so if he ever did need help, I'd be aware of what he was taking and, like, what help he needed. But that. That became, like, more apparent that I didn't know very much when I started to go to the psychiatrist, because he actually eventually had me go to the same one as him, which had been a family friend for a long time. So I was going to see Howard. That's who. How we called him Howard. Howard was actually really nice. I did like him. But there was something weird about the relationship that he had with his parents. And, like, it was like they already still knew what medication was being changed and, like, what he was like, yeah, they could call this guy up and, like, get the information and things like that. And I'm like, nothing odd. I don't think Howard was really doing anything wrong. I don't want to say that he was doing anything wrong, but it was, you know, it was. I felt out of the loop a lot when I realized that. So I definitely started to ask a little bit more questions. That was something I really noted. And after the big episode, Howard became not our favorite person. So we'll get into that, too. We were both feeling pretty good with where we were at with our medications. But I do remember right around before this trip that me and my mom took to Florida. We're now in 20, 23 times he. I remember he mentioned to me how he had upped one of the dosages or something. He had Benedict that level before, but, like, went back down and then went back up. So, like, to me, that just told me, okay, he's been struggling a little bit, but he can tell, so that's good. I never had to, like, watch out for him, really. He had been doing. It was second nature to me and just part of him at this point, because I've always known him to, like, not be a drinker, to be on his medications, to Drink a lot of coffee and occasionally smoke cigarettes or nicotine gum and stuff like that. That was kind of like the extent of Pat and those extremes, if you want to say that. Maybe. He was definitely a movie lover too, which I think could kind of get him into thinking things can go like a movie occasionally, at least with the band. So he was either like, I don't think I'm ready to do this full jump, or I am ready to do this full jump, because that's kind of where it had builded to. We were doing all this stuff for them in the band and a lot of the guys had left their full time jobs so they could track travel and tour with the band more. But as a teacher, you only have the summer for that. Which worked out pretty good at the start because they would travel a lot in the summer and then during like the winter break times and spring break times also, because it would just be when people were out as well. And you can get lots of fans and lots of different venues and even a Tuesday night usually kind of a thing. So he was in the middle of just like starting to feel the pressure from the band. And I think that had to do with him wanting to like, change his dosages a lot going into, like the fall and winter. This is when we were getting really good at checking in with one another as like a married couple. And we felt pretty strong. We might not always be happy with what's going on, but we knew that we could get through it at that point as long as we, like, talked to one another. And so I felt like we had been talking to one another. And March is when his birthday is. So we were. Me and my mom were taking this trip in March to Florida for my cousin's baby shower, actually. And then we just spent a little extra time there because it was right around St. Patrick's Day. So we went and did some St. Patrick's Day stuff and things like that. And I was actually in between switching jobs right at that point in time too. He got a little nervous with the work transition, but I think we were both really happy with it. So I was kind of like on the phone with that old job while we were out in Florida and then getting a lot of text messages from my husband, really happy, like really great because he had decided to be a part of the band and he put in his leave for work saying he's not going to come back and teach next year. And, like, he was feeling really good about it and I was feeling really good about it. It was Scary because we would definitely not have the same income and we have a mortgage and things like that. But I pretty much knew. I was like, well, if we want to do this, we'll do it. And that's just what I kept telling him. And I think. I don't know if I convinced him or if maybe what was going on is what convinced him. Because I gave him a birthday gift a little early before because I was going to get back like the day before his birthday. And it was some oracle cards where you just like talk to the spirit guides and stuff. And his family is kind of pretty religious, so I know they at first were probably like, what are these things? When he kept sending people, like cards he pulled for them and was really excited about what they meant. And I started noticing he was finding meaning in like everything. Like, oh, two birds flew across the yard today. That means we're gonna both fly into a great life together, which is like so cute. But then you're like, you just said something like that a couple minutes ago about something else. And yeah, life is great, but like, not everything is a sign. And I was kind of. I even remember sending that message to him and things like that. And he was sending cards to the band mates and all this stuff too. So that was definitely interesting. I knew. But I was just thinking he was excited. It felt like he was excited for the change and he made a decision. So everything was pretty good otherwise when we were on our trip for that. And then I get back home and it's still this very manic almost. I don't think I necessarily realized it at the time until later because I waited. Maybe it was like a Monday when I got back and we had his birthday dinner with his mom and brother. And that went really well. But he was also kind of like standing up to them in a way he had never done before. And not like they were doing anything bad, but they were, you know, like harping on the waitress a little or something like that. And he'd be like, come on, guys. And that was different. I had never seen that before either. But yeah, we do the dinner for his birthday and then we like, we both are going to work for that. And I'm at my new job now for like a week and like, I'm getting used to that. So I'm kind of focused on that at this point. And just our regular day to day. And then there's. I can just tell there's still something off with him, though. And I remember even like texting a friend that day or something. How I was like, I'm gonna have to go home and talk him, like, down today, because his, like, head was just in the clouds. He was all seeing these signs, and, like, we were turning one of our rooms into a music studio for him, and he was just going crazy putting things up in there, which was great. But I that the day that I was thinking, I need to go and home and talk to him and figure out how to bring him back down and, like, realize, hey, like, I love that you're super excited, but we have to stay realistic and things like that that day too. So I'm at work that morning. I get a text message from him, and he tells me that his job is closed because of, like, no power or something like that. It was kind of weird, but since it was, like, my second week at my new job, I didn't take much time into even reading the text message or anything. I was just like, okay, he's home with the dog today. Great, that's fine. And then I started thinking about it at one point, like, during my lunch, and I was like, that's kind of weird. But I was like, maybe he just said it wrong. I don't know. But it definitely was off. And I think about that more and more now, like, wow. Like, he thought I was going to believe it, and I did, so. But I get home from work that day, and I walk in our. Our back door from the driveway, and it just smells of cigar in the house. And he actually did really enjoy cigars and would write reviews online and stuff. But we don't smoke them in the house. We didn't smoke anything like that in the house. I was, like, already kind of mad, too, because I was throwing something away from my car in the garbage. And I see, like, my yoga mat and one of my garbage things, like, a pail full of other stuff from, like, my desk that I used to have set up with all of my previous work stuff from work, from home, in the garbage. And I'm like, that's mine. Like, why is he just throwing my stuff away? This is weird. And then I smell the cigar with music blasting. And I know he's in the studio. So I go up there and I'm, like, ready to yell at him, like, why are you smoking a cigar in the house? And he's wearing these yellow glasses that he likes to wear on stage that he had been kind of wearing during the day more because he liked the way it calmed the light or something. I'm not sure, but I remember ripping the Glasses off of his face and throwing them. And that's when I don't even remember what I was saying, but that's when he was saying, like, oh, well, the devil's getting you. The devil's gonna get you. And, like. Like, you guys are after me type of things. And I was kind of like, I don't really know what you're talking about. You need to go. Like, I didn't. I didn't want him there. I was totally out of my realm of, like, what to do. And I was pretty shocked and just, like, angry because of seeing my things in the garbage. I wasn't really thinking about him being sick yet.

Mental Health Advocate (24:41)

And that was the first time that it's ever been to, like, that extent.

Frances (24:44)

Yes. I have never. I've really. Until then, I've only ever seen him, like, sad. Like, slow and sad.

Mental Health Advocate (24:51)

Did you say that was his. Did his psychiatrist, the Howard guy, did he diagnose him with anything or he was just on medications to maintain?

Frances (24:59)

I never asked, but I found out later when all this stuff happened and I had to help him because he ended up, after this whole incident, going to the hospital. So that's when I found out more. And he was never really fully diagnosed except for, like, with mood swings and stuff. But then when he went to the hospital, they did diagnose him with bipolar, and that's how I always felt. I always thought he was bipolar because it. It fit with his swings and things like that. And he just had it under pretty good control.

Mental Health Advocate (25:27)

Like, so interesting, like, with the psychiatrist that. It's just like.

Frances (25:31)

That's where I got kind of weirded because it's like, just like, growing medication family. Not want him to have a diagnosis, maybe, or.

Mental Health Advocate (25:39)

Well, not even.

Frances (25:41)

That's where I was weirded out, too, because he'd be like, oh, I'm just going to call Howard and tell him I need some more. And they just. Right. Like, for a minute. And then. Yeah, Like, I think he still made, like, an appointment, but barely. It was like, yeah, I can get you in at this time, and.

Mental Health Advocate (25:54)

Right.

Frances (25:54)

So it was that weird. Like, was weird for me at first, definitely.

Mental Health Advocate (25:58)

Yeah. Because it's more than just, like, temporarily.

Frances (26:00)

And that's when I started trying to be like, maybe you should see a therapist for a little bit here, too. Right. Try that. Because you don't always need to have one or you can have them, like, bimonthly even, you know, just so you can check in. So, yeah, that was. It was definitely interesting because. And I was super happy when we did get a diagnosis for him, honestly. Yeah.

Mental Health Advocate (26:20)

Just more understanding.

Frances (26:21)

But it's kind of hard to say because, like, he didn't really let me get into the hospital or anything like that. So we can. We can get to that in a second because there's a tad more to the story before we get there. Oh, no, no, that's a good. Good. Because it's notable, for sure. And. But yeah, let's see. I think I had gone downstairs to do something at this point, yelling at him. And he came down too and followed me because we had, like, a split level home at the time. And I. I think I yelled at him to leave. I was like, you need to get out of here. Like, leave. And then I realized that was a terrible decision. But so he. Because he grabbed his. He had a motorcycle. I saw that he grabbed those keys, and I was like, okay, shoot. Maybe I shouldn't have him leave on his motorcycle all like, crazy. That's really dangerous. So I tried. Like, we're getting out to the garage area. It's not attached. So we're like, in the driveway and the garage is open, and I'm trying to sort of stop him and, like, grab the keys, and he's kind of, like, just making himself big. So I can't really get around to it. There was one point where he, like, had it in the bike. And then, like, I had stepped back and he was turning, saying something. And I'm realizing now at this point that I had saw him sitting when he. When I first saw him with the cigar, sitting in the chair like this, in that moment of, like, trying to get those keys, that he was also a gun owner of, like, we had, like, six guns or so, maybe, but he had some funky accessories, too. He had one of those, like, vest holder things on. And I didn't notice if the gun was in it, but I noticed he was wearing it. And that's when it hit me when he's getting on his motorcycle, like, okay, he's sick and got a gun on him right now and about to go on his motorcycle. And so I'm just reaching towards him. And then he even threatened my life with the gun at that point. And I was like, this is not husband. I was like, this isn't him anymore. There's something wrong. I'm like, there's more. He's been hiding or something like that. And that's when I just, like, backed up. I went inside. I think I called my mom, and then I called his mom, and his mom and brother came to the house. But he had took off on the motorcycle at that point already. So then I called the police and I said, I think he's sick, there might be mental health. And he's riding around on this, you know, black motorcycle with. He had this thankfully really notable red jacket on. And he was coming back to the neighborhood, I think, and actually trying to speed away from them. He later told me, and kind of I didn't realize, but he did like fall and crash into the grass when they pulled him over. And he had like a scrape on his leg. But the police ended up kind of getting him. They brought him back to the house, his mom and brother were there. And I didn't even want to see him at that point because I was pretty like scared to death really, of like, am I gonna get him back ever? Like, what's gonna happen next? And so since his mom had been a counselor and things like that, they were kind of sort of knew what to do in these moments, but they had never had him do this before either. So it was new to all of us, I think, at least to this level that I'm aware of. And so at first the police were like, oh yeah, this hospital has a unit that he can go in for male adults. And so they took him. And I went and got dropped off at my parents house at that point because it was right by that hospital and we kind of just waited to see what was going on. And I guess he tried to run when he got there. He did not want to go anymore, but he went willingly at first. Like he knew he was going to go to a hospital to get help and he felt really bad. And he kept telling to them, like, I'm sorry, like I hope I wanted to talk to me, because at that point I didn't want to talk to him. And he was like devastated. So that was the biggest thing at that point, I think, was he wanted me to talk to him. But they ended up getting him over to that hospital and in there and then they're like, oh, we don't have a space for him here. Like, there's nothing. We don't have that here. So he stayed, I think in the ER overnight over there until they could find a place probably 40 minutes south of us that he could go. So he gets there though, and his mom was the one that had the information of like where he was gonna go and stuff, because they were staying at the hospital for the most point with him. I can't remember how long they stayed or anything, but they made it feel as if I didn't need to go and I shouldn't at that point in time. Sometimes I kind of wish I did go, but I think it's probably better that I didn't because of he was. Who knows how he would have reacted in that point. Like he might have wanted to see me, but when he did, it might not have been the same. It took me a while to then figure out how to contact him, which was tough. But eventually I realized that I could call and ask for him and they'd get him on the phone for me. And that was extremely helpful.

Uber Eats Advertiser (31:04)

This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting sick is the getting better part. Waiting on hold for an appointment, sitting in crowded waiting rooms, standing in line at the pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon, AmazonOne Medical and Amazon Pharmacy remove those painful parts of getting better with things like 247 virtual visits and prescriptions delivered to your door thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon one Medical Healthcare just got less painful. Spring Fest and Ego days are here at Lowes right now. Get a Free Select EGO 56 volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer, blower or mower kit. Plus shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power. Only at Lowe's we help you save offer valid through 4 2. Selection varies by location while supplies last.

Frances (32:01)

Because I was able to get him to finally sign like HIPAA forms so I could get information. And that's when I started talking to like the psychiatrist that he was seeing. But then he was told me that Howard is evil and we can't see Howard anymore. So actually even when we got out of the hospital and everything, we both had a. We have a different. I see the same psychiatrist now that we switched to because I felt too weird going back and you'll see even more so why later?

Mental Health Advocate (32:29)

Well, I think regardless, you know, I don't think anybody should be just. I don't. It doesn't matter if you're a doctor, but you shouldn't just be handing out medicine to treat symptoms without like a diagnosis or without like trying to get help. You know, it just doesn't because he.

Frances (32:44)

Gave me the list of medications after that and but like, I don't know, it was just like, you know, he just like wrote it down or whatever. And I had known too then that he was talking, the psychiatrist was talking to his mom during that time too. And like, because she before we even like sent him to the hospital, was like, I'm going to call Howard. Like about the whole situation.

Mental Health Advocate (33:04)

Friends with Howard, right?

Frances (33:05)

Like about the whole situation. And for me that was just kind of like, well, I think that's my job, cuz I also know Howard, but I don't think she knew I knew him.

Mental Health Advocate (33:12)

And how long was he in the hospital at this point before you were able to start talking to the psychiatrist there?

Frances (33:18)

Well, I didn't actually didn't. That wasn't even at that hospital. I barely talked to the psychiatrist there. But I, I started talking to nurses probably like, and getting information. By like the beginning of the third day, I finally figured it out because I was also trying to my new job working and all this was happening all at the same time. And I told my supervisor about it, which thankfully was wonderful. And I got super lucky with the crew I have right now because I think this job and everything has been extremely helpful for my process of getting through it and recovering and things like that. But he ended up being in the hospital for nine days total, I'm pretty sure. And he was begging to leave every day pretty much. So it was hard to be on the phone with him a lot because he would also say things that still weren't quite right, but. And you couldn't disagree, otherwise he'd hang up. And so like you could either try and bring them to reality or you kind of be like, okay, sure, yeah, okay. Those people are getting consumed by darkness. I'm sure they are. Which because at a hospital like that, when you're on the floor with all these people that might be sick for mental health, that definitely I'm sure can be scary. I've never experienced it myself. And that was his first goal experience. And he really didn't like the way it felt there. It was very evil to him, I think. So he didn't want me to even like go inside when he got let out and things like that. But I wanted to. I told him to let me and then I'm getting there to pick him up and I'm like waiting and I thought I was gonna get him to like come and then come get me or something, but no, he just like popped out and got in the car and I was like, like, oh man, I don't get any information. Like so that was really tough because I think there was some out outlet. Outlet information that I could have definitely known to help. And they wanted him to definitely also do like outpatient after that. And I was trying to get him to do Those types of things and same with his mom. But I think he felt like they were going to be more intense than what he would want to do. But I was at the part where I'm. You're an adult now. We can find one at the right level. Like yeah, that works. There's different things. Like you're not a 16 year old anymore when he did. How old? Some groups at this point. So he is two years older than me. So he was, he had just turned 32.

Mental Health Advocate (35:44)

Okay.

Frances (35:45)

Yeah, he just turned. Yeah, like the, A month before this all happened when he went to the hospital and everything. And when he like we, we kind of. I kind of had to get him to stop talking about the stuff to. I was like, if you want to come home, you can't really be asking the doctors like these questions about the people being evil or whatever. However he was asking things maybe. So I felt bad in the past, like did I get him out too soon? But I really don't think him having been in the hospital longer would have done anything because they do like talk to you on the phone with the doctor. I had like one conversation I think right before and it's when they're asking me if I feel like he's ready to come home or not from my phone conversations with him basically. And of course I wanted him to come home too because I did feel like we could get better help outside of there at that point, but that the fact was that we had to actually go and get it and that ended up never really happening. But right after when he got back, he I think was just so excited to be like free and he was like really excited to go play with the band again for the first time. I actually remember this picture really well of like him sitting before they were going to get on and stuff and how happy he was. And he posted about it like I'm back in the saddle and stuff like that. And then he I think had to miss a couple of their like touring things cuz he had started working again. He took like two weeks off of work though after he got back from the hospital still. And I know that working was super draining when he did get back with all the kids and was super worried that they'd notice differences in things. And he was definitely like when it came to work, dragging his feet a little more and things like that. So I think that's why in the, in the realm of that time is why he was like, I'm gonna full blown do the band. And that helped a lot. And that's when, like, the upbeat came back because he was, like, in debate before he went to the hospital. And then after that is when he decided, because then he. School ended and he had. He was done with work, so he was just doing the band, but he. He hurt himself, I'm pretty sure is what had happened. Yeah, so he played, like, two shows with them because they were traveling still, so to two local ones he played. And then it was. Yeah, it was in July on my actual birthday. He met me to have lunch during my work break, and we went. And after that, like, walked around this little park, and he was like, there's something I have to tell you. And I was super nervous. I was like, are you gonna tell me, like, you cheated on me or something? That's what it felt like. I was, like, super confused. And I was like. But he would never do that. I was like, what is he gonna tell me? And then he told me how he had been, like, grabbing his throat to feel, like, the strangulation, basically. And he said that he grabbed it really hard one time, and he heard, like, a pop. And it's been hurting since then. So I was like, okay, well, that's fine. We'll make sure you're okay. We can take you to the doctor and everything. And, like, that was scary to know he was doing that, because it made me flashback to when he was first back from the hospital. Sometimes in the middle of the night, I'd, like, wake up, and he'd just be smacking his head to get all the demons out of, like, hitting his head really hard. And I'd have to stop him. And, like, I'm barely awake, so I don't even know what's going on. But you could tell, like, there was stuff bothering him. And then I think after a while, he started to hide it from me, too, because he was also saying he was talking to his dad and brother a lot, which I loved. I'm very. For that. Talking to spiritual stuff. Like, I talked to Pat still, you know, even though he's not here. But it was to this level still, like, getting back to when I was like, we have to take you to get help. And so this is what I'm starting to try and look up more places. But you can only do it so often with him because he'll just be like, no. And then be even more sad. And, like, he was kind of becoming a potato at that point. It was this one spot on the couch that he would just be in and really never leave it that often. He wouldn't really go in his studio anymore because his throat was healing still. Supposedly it hurt to play. And, like, the band knew all this and everything too. And he got even a full scan of some sort. There was nothing. He was fine. So after a while, I'm thinking, okay, this is like, probably more so in his head, and he's more nervous and scared to join the band. Like, it's a huge jump and he's always been kind of nervous to do it. So I think he was sort of holding himself back and the mental was putting things on him that weren't quite always there. But he. It was. It was weighing him down a lot to not be able to play with them. And that it was for them, too. The band really wanted him back, especially because he was supposed to be playing full time with the band. But this is actually all after a string of festivals that he did go to that I had to go with him, though, and be his babysitter because he was still so nervous with his mental health and where he was at. Those environments were really overwhelming for him. So, like, I knew he kind of needed me to hold his hand for a while, and that's why he was, I think, saying his throat was still hurt. He didn't want to go on tour without me, with just the band. And at that point I told him, you know, if you want to do this fully, I have to stay here and you have to go be with the band now. Like, I can't be that part and help because I used to run sound and things and be a really big part. But once he got that scan and then we heard, that was nothing, nothing back. Like, I really didn't know what to do. He didn't really know what to do. I was starting to struggle myself with, like, not being able to get him to do anything. And I would be going to the gym more just to get out and things like that. And it was helping me a lot. So I was trying to get him to. But that was not his thing. Tried to get him to take more dog walks with me, which he would do occasionally. And that always seemed to sort of help. But I couldn't really get him to do much of anything except for watch TV with me. So we did a lot of that. I remember our washer and dryer stopped working. He had sort of fixed it and then it stopped working again. So I was like, okay, we have a lot of laundry. I'm going to go take it to my mom. Dad's not far, and I'm going to do that this Saturday. And I was like, you can come with me if you want. They're out of town. So like they're not even going to be there. We can just do whatever. And he decided to stay home. And like I did. I got up at like 10, I think on a Saturday, had the laundry separated in the baskets already or whatever. And he still was sleeping and just laying in the bed like he normally does. And I just gave him a kind of goodbye kiss and like, I'll see you later. But at this point he was kind of upset with me because just before probably. So like the two weekends before this, it was my birthday and my 30th, so we did a fun 30th celebration at like the Renaissance Fair we went and I was a fairy and everything and he enjoyed that a little bit. But you could tell, everybody could tell. My friends, my parents, my siblings that don't even see him all the time like that it was a struggle, like he was not quite there and things like that. It's like a dazed look almost. And like he did his best, he really did for me, which, like, I'm so thankful because I had a great time. And that was one of the times that thankfully, like, we all were together with him too and he was doing something. So that was really nice. And then the next weekend I went to the big EAA Air show in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. My family's kind of been a part of that throughout a long time. So my uncle is always there and I knew my two cousins were going to be there with one with his girlfriend and then their friend also. So I was like, well, maybe I'll just take one extra day off of work and drive up there. It was like three hour drive for me. I knew he wouldn't want to come because it's really toasty and hot up there and you have to sleep in a tent and he does not do very good with that and just his state already. But I thought maybe if I mentioned he'd be like kind of interested and we could get a hotel. But none of that really happened. So I ended up going to that and I had a really great time because I was just kind of thinking about. I knew he was at home doing okay, had nothing bad had happened for a while, but he was just a potato, so. Just the potato. But I had met some really awesome people when I was there and it just hearing about like their careers as pilots and things like that and like where they went to and I was sort of like, what am I doing right now? Like, we're trying to do this band thing, but, like, me, that's not what I'm doing. And it made me start thinking a lot about, like, even when he is better, how our life is gonna look and stuff like that. So I remember coming home and talking to him and even spoke with my parents about it, too. I was like, I'm not sure if this is the right relationship for me or not, if we are gonna, like. But it was so hard because we were doing pretty well until that point, you know, like, we were figuring out how to be a married couple. And we had been married for about two years at that point. The first year was definitely the hardest, and then we were doing pretty well. So I thought, like, I could bring it to him in a way where we would talk it out pretty well. But when we started to, I think just him being so sick. And I brought up how, like, I found some people interesting, and I don't know if you'll be able to keep up with me even after this, with some of my interests that, like, we haven't gotten to yet. But, like, I also do see that we could have this life if you're with the band, and that we would reach all of you, and, like, I'd travel and meet you, and that would reach all these interests, and it would, like, have the relationship be at the level that I've always expected and things. So it was really tough for him to hear that. It was kind of like, hey, this might lead to divorce if you don't change anything. I was pretty straightforward when I ended up saying that, and there was really nothing else I think I could have said to make it better. But after that, I think he was like, francis wants a divorce. Like, she's divorcing me. Like, my life is now over, over. Like, I can't play. My wife is leaving me. But, like, that, to me, wasn't the case. We had set up, like, a third couples therapy at that point, and I had been trying to do that a little bit before anyways, because I think it's just a great tool to be able to have someone else help you find more tools, basically, for your relationship. And that's kind of how I got us to where we were, is I took tools from other therapists and listening to even just, like, podcasts kind of like this, where people have their tools that you can take. And that was definitely something I was looking forward to. But maybe we needed to do it a Saturday sooner because it was supposed to be the Next Saturday, after the laundry, and I'm doing our laundry at my parents. And I actually had a really great day that day, too. I brought a book and I brought. I packed some beers and I would ride my bike to the park while the one load is going, and I'd drink the beer and read my book. And then I'd ride my bike back to their house and do the next load and fold it. And then I did one other park, I think, after that. And, like, we had been texting a little bit. Once he got up, he messaged me saying, like, he's gonna drive around, and he's a big, like, engines guy. You know, Harley Davidson's. Like, he had his car that he liked to drive. So at one point before that week, though, he mentioned, like, how he might go hang out with his mom that weekend. And she has, like, a really old school Cadillac that they would drive around too. So I thought maybe he meant that. But normally he'd stay with his mom, but he didn't. I just didn't think much of it, though. I was like, okay, he's out. That's amazing. He's not on the couch. That, like, it was so great. I was like. And he's doing it on his own. I'm not there. So by the time I got back with the laundry, though, I remember he wasn't there. Seemed like the dog needed to be fed, so I, like, fed her and let her out. She definitely seemed, like, a little squirrely, but I had already talked to my friend about going over to her place and hanging out for a little bit with a fire in the back and just catching up because it's been a while. I didn't hear back from him, though, like, when I sent that message, which was kind of weird. So I was kind of thinking maybe he's still just, like, a little sour with me about thinking I'm gonna leave him and stuff. But, like, I tried to reassure him after that because obviously I said, like, I love you and kissed him before I left that day. And we were having, like, normal days and things pretty much after that. Yeah, he wasn't at home, and so I dropped the laundry. And then I wasn't there for very long. I just took care of the dog. I went back, still hadn't heard from him. And so, yeah, me and my friend are talking about it. I remember saying to her, like, yeah, I think he might just be a little upset because I was definitely, like, venting to her about the whole situation. And because she also is someone who struggled with mental health. So me and her had these conversations a lot and, like, bounced it off of one another. So I was super comfortable talking with her about it too. And since she, like, knew him quite well, it was really helpful for me. But there was actually an eerie moment where it probably sounds not so great now, but we were. We were talking and it was like, it'd almost be easier if. If he did decide to be gone. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, no, that is so horrible. Why can we even think that? But that's how much of a burden it was bringing to me at that point. But I would never say he's a burden to me because he. He as a human and himself was not. It was the sickness and things that were just making it really hard for who I was as a person to separate myself from it, I think, because I'm very, like, empty, empathetic and things like that too. So, like, it was really, really tough for me to separate myself from him. I felt like it was me being sick also. And I think that's where like, that came. Comment for me came from. I think about it all the time that I mentioned that I said something like that.

Mental Health Advocate (49:56)

When someone is struggling with mental illness like that, and you're that close with them and you're experiencing it right there with them, it is one of the most draining things.

Frances (50:07)

Yeah. And I really didn't. I was at a point where I just did not know what to do anymore.

Mental Health Advocate (50:12)

I don't think people that haven't experienced that understand that at all. Like, it is. And it's terrifying.

Frances (50:18)

And I just don't know what's next either.

Mental Health Advocate (50:20)

Right.

Frances (50:20)

Like, ever.

Mental Health Advocate (50:21)

I think it can seem like saying it's a burden is a harsh word, but, like, you're taking. I mean, it's. There's no, like, light way to say it, but it's like somebody's these really serious problems and their mental illness and all of this stuff. Like, you're not a doctor. You're not, you know, that's your partner. So to put that all on yourself is. It's very heavy.

Frances (50:43)

Definitely. It was a lot. And that's why I think I was trying to find resources for us too.

Mental Health Advocate (50:49)

Yeah.

Frances (50:49)

I was like, I can't be all the resources like you want me to be. It's not enough. But I think you could definitely tell, like, me and my mom talk about this often too, how you could definitely tell he was doing anything to not. Not end up back in the hospital.

Mental Health Advocate (51:04)

Right.

Frances (51:04)

Which is understandable. It was Horrible. But I also kept telling them too, we could research ahead of time if that's the case. They don't have to just pop you in one that you don't like. Like and it's hard figure it out.

Mental Health Advocate (51:16)

I think, you know, when somebody's in that state, they don't see it from the perspective that the people that are helping them are seeing it from. You know. And I want to mention too, before you continue, there's nothing wrong with you meeting people and thinking like I want that or like it would be cool if, you know, to open yourself up to new opportunity. You know, we, we are, you know, we're on this, we have this human experience to meet all different types of people and we form these connections and you know, that doesn't mean that we should ever close ourselves off. So I just want to tell you that because I think that it can be very easy to reflect on just different times that you've had in your life or different thoughts you've had and feel guilt in a sense. But just you should never feel that way because you're. Everybody deserves to be happy and to get the fullest experience out of life.

Frances (52:08)

Yeah. You know, honestly think I've been pretty lucky with being pretty good at that with myself so far. Until there's like just those moments when you think about it. And I think just getting the story ready for this made me think about some of those minimal moments that happened. But really in the end like it's hot air when it's words, you know, it doesn't do much of anything. So that I think back to that a lot. But so I me, I'm with my friend, we were chatting all night. I think I left for home at like 1pm or am sorry. And so I was expecting to definitely see him like passed out in bed but he wasn't there. So I was like, is he really that mad at me? Like is he staying at his mom's? I was like, I'm not gonna try, not gonna make a big deal of it. I don't think I called him but I texted him trying to see like where he was at and things like that. Because I also didn't want him to feel like a child either in all this. Cuz I was very much like mothering and taking care of him at the moment and like always wanted to know where he was at but I didn't, didn't. And I didn't want to feel like his mom either. That was a thing for sure. And he hated it if I told him that I felt like his mom. So yeah, there was. He wasn't there. But I had had a long day. I had some of my beers from earlier in the bike riding and just the chatting from that night was pretty draining. And I remember passing out really fast and then I Woke up around 9, which is was kind of normal time for me to wake up naturally then. Normally it's a little earlier now, but. So that was Sunday morning the next day and he's. I still haven't heard anything from him, I haven't seen him. I tried calling and there's nothing but the phone is on. So I'm like, okay, what's going on here and what's happening? So I decide to message his mom and be like, is he at your place? Like I thought you guys might be hanging out. And she says she's out of town in like a different town, like an hour north or something like that. And I was like, okay. And so I started like asking some other people, but there's really nobody that was going to know where he was except for me because he wasn't really talking to anybody except for me maybe here and there. But it was all like surface level things that he would talk about. He did have a therapist at the time through like one of the apps that he would message. So I knew he was talking to that person a little bit. But there was nothing like, hey, I'm going here and doing this you want to hang out type people. At the time, even the band he wasn't really in contact with a lot, but his mom was like, have you asked the band? And they were on the road. I knew that already. And like have we asked all these people? But one of the things I also still remember in that phone call was like I called her after the messaging and being like, I still haven't heard anything from anyone. She's like, you only call me with bad news. And that was just like, oh, okay, I'm sorry. Like, yeah, I'm not the, like I'm not the kind of daughter in law that really would like go calling the mom because he would call her every day and we could, I could join in on that conversation a little bit and stuff like that. But so it was, I guess I did sort of call for the bad news, but she could have called me too. So after we're kind of trying to figure out who to contact next and what to do, we definitely got in contact with his brother too, who is a police officer. And he had been in the police for about three years at that point. So he had some pretty good knowledge of, like, driving around to look and stuff. So he started driving around to go look for him. And I, like, when I got the call from his mom, I was already on the way to her house to see if he was maybe there, but she said she could, like, check the driveway cameras and said she didn't see his car. So I was like, okay, I'll turn around and I'll go home. And I, at that point, had told my mom and my friend that I was with the night before, and they both ended up coming over. And I like, so now it's like, missing person feeling like we don't know where Pat is. So I called the police for, like, a missing person's report, and then I ended up having to, like, call back again to get them to ping his phone. Like, I had to specifically ask for all this, which I thought was kind of weird, but I guess also sort of makes sense. And by the way, at least in Illinois, you do not have to wait 24 hours or anything to get a missing call for missing people. You can do that at any point in time. And I'm glad we did, and I'm glad we got the ping because they ended up maybe 30 minutes later calling me with, like, the ping location. And so I sent that to his brother, and then he probably shared it with the mom, and they went to that location. And I don't know anything about what was happening there because I just stayed home just in case he came home. And it was like, just his phone sitting on the ground or something. Who knows? Because at that point, I was kind of thinking, well, maybe he, like, relapsed and is, like, out drinking bottles of wine or something. Because he always would tell me how he wanted to, like, sip red wine at night. So that's, like, the only thing I could think of. But I like, there was no charges on his cards or anything because we had combined account at that point, so I could see if there was anything there, and nothing. So we're just kind of at that point, waiting. And I remember my mom took the dog for, like, a walk around the little lake behind the house because just to get her nervous energy out, I think, and do something while we were, like, figuring out what was going on. And me and my friend are just, like, kind of standing there, I don't know, pacing, figuring things out. And I get a call from his brother, and that's when they're like. He's like, I'm sorry, but, like, we found him, and he's dead. So I was just, like, kind of. I remember first going, like, really, like. And of course, his brother actually responded like, yes, really? I was just kind of like, well, that's not what I meant. I'm just reacting. And I just started crying, and my friend kind of came over and hugged me, and we called my mom because she was on the walk, and so I told her, and she came, like, running back with the dog, and from that part was kind of all a blur. We. I got some info from his brother, and then he, like, texted me saying we could go to his mom's house. But then I, like, called her beforehand to make sure, I guess, because my dad finally came over and met up with us, and my friend ended up, I think, kind of leaving at the same time and to go home. But we are, like, on our way to go to his mom's house, and I call her to, like, check on things, and she's like, oh, can you give us, like, 20 minutes? We want to make sure Graham is okay. And because his grandma had Parkinson's and was, like, kind of shaky, and these types of news could really, you know, make her upset and, like, make it tough and struggle for her. But nothing about me. Nobody asked about me or what was going on, like, how am I doing? But we show up there, and of course, everybody's, like, gonna. Came and, like, gave me a hug, and I sort of sat on the middle of one of the couches, and there's all these way more people than I would have wanted there, but they've lost so much family already in their. In their minds. Like, their immediate family was, like, his aunt and uncle, too, and his grandma and. And then these two friends that are, like, godfather to his brother and stuff like that. And so I've met these people and all that, but. And I know they're family to him, and it's affecting them also. It's just, like, there's all these people that I just don't care to hug right now, trying to hug me and ask me how I'm doing and don't know half the story at all. And already. And I already get the vibe, like, his mom now is like, you only call me when bad things are happening. And she asked me also if we had a fight or something. She's like, what happened? And I was like, I don't know. Nothing happened. We had a normal morning. Like, I told her. I was like, you know, about the recent, like, struggle, but we're working on it. And then it was Very. I was like, okay, so we got to be careful with our words here. Which I feel like I always kind of did with them. Honestly, I usually was a lot more quiet around them. But yeah, that was kind of very uncomfortable when we were at their house right afterwards. Just being in complete shock, really. That's why I don't even remember. I don't think I really said anything. I think we kind of talked about like, okay, how what do we do when people ask about it? And because oddly enough it was like, well, your family has experience with this because his brother did the same thing. And I'm also thinking in my head like, hold on, how did he get a gun? All of the guns had to leave our house after he was in the hospital. You can't. Your void card is voided and everything after you go into a mental institute like that. So they were even worried about getting the guns out of our house and like how he was going to feel about that. They thought he was going to try and like go get them all back and stuff. Stuff. So they were like, his brother at first was going to take him, but he was like, I don't know if I want that trouble of being a police officer and if he does come like manic and angry and wants his guns like they're technically his and then they'd be on my property and stuff like that. So we had a little bit of trouble like figuring that out. But I think the family friends are the ones that ended up taking them and that's kind of where I left it at. They helped me get them. We got the locker and stuff out and got it out of the house and actually when he came back from the hospital there I missed one. McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of a Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether flame sauce. Now available with a Minecraft movie meal.

Uber Eats Advertiser (62:00)

At participating McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters.

Frances (62:03)

Spring savings are in the air. And at Ross where they have savings on all the brands you love, from the latest fashion to outdoor decor and even pet supplies. Savings are in every aisle. Go to ross and save 20 to 60% off other retailers prices on your favorite spring finds. And so Pat, even willingly like gave it, gave it up. So like I, I knew it was going to be fine. I told him, like, you're going to lose your Floyd card and blah, blah, it's all good. So that's just interesting that they were so Nervous about that. And then we're. I'm kind of, like, in this. Like, okay, where did he get it? How did he get it? Who gave him this? Like, he shouldn't have access to anything or know where any of them even are. And that I sort of just like, forgot about after a little bit, though, once I finally got to my parents and I just started staying there with my dog right after and everything, because the house was definitely weird at that point. But I did love that house. I will always think fondly of it, I think. So I'm happy that he didn't do anything to, like, ruin that memory or anything like that. He was in his car in, like, the back of a. It's like, the Fisher Paper or something, like a, you know, just a warehouse. He parked behind there, so they were able to grab, like, the security footage from there. And, like, you can just see, like, the side of the car, so there's, like. You can see the rustling around of him and stuff. And he had been. He sat in that parking lot for, like, an hour or so. I think he, like, found it left, which is when. Now they fly. Like, later I found out when they think he left to go get the gun and then come back. But I didn't find really any of that out until I talked with the police. But the police never called me. I had to call them, which I thought was really weird, too, because they allowed his brother to be the one to call me to tell me what happened, which is fine. But I also, like, got no information. They didn't want to ask me any questions, which I thought was kind of weird and stuff like that. So we ended up. And then I found out when I was on the phone with them that they gave the brother my husband's phone. Granted, the family. He was on, like, a family plan with them still, so it was, like, physically theirs and stuff. But I knew how to get into it. I was gonna be the one who needed anything type of information in there because it was super easy to get into, like, his email and bank stuff that way while he was in the hospital, so I could help him arrange things. But they didn't even tell me they had it, the phone. And then I had to, like, ask later about them having it. And then I asked for it in a way. Like, I was like, I want to take pictures off of it. I. I didn't just, like, be like, I want to give me the phone, but that's really what I wanted. I wanted his phone. And I was like, then his brother Asked, oh, do you know the passcode? And I was like, well, yes. And he's like, well, can you tell me? I was like, well, for what? And he's like, well, so we can get pictures off of it. I was like, well, didn't I just give you that idea? I'd rather I do it. So I lied and I said, there's inappropriate pictures on there. I don't want you to do it. And I was like, I'm not sure what you'll find, which there might have been, but who knows? And he. They eventually gave me the phone, but this is after I saw him, like, twice. The band did a tribute show, which was really amazing. They already had a show planned at this location, and they've played there again since. And I very fond of that. That venue. And it was outdoors too, which was really amazing. And I think it was perfect timing because it was still kind of so numb. But, like, for all of us, music was something that brought us all together. And, like, that was our family. So that was a really awesome moment to have for him. And, like, his family did show up too, but, like, that was kind of weird where the, like, get up and dance around family and they'll, like, sit at the picnic table family, which is also totally fine, but it's kind of like I barely got talked to and stuff like that. I was like the last one to get a hug from his mom after all the band people. But also, she was probably really excited to see them. But there was also the comments, like, well, none of the band people called me. And I'm like, why would they call you? Why would his friends call his mom unless they really. I mean, people have that type of relationship. But, like, the whole. Not the whole band. Did not. Did not at all. So it was.

Mental Health Advocate (66:25)

I wouldn't want to call her.

Frances (66:25)

It was very interesting, like, the comments and the things she expected from people. And, like, I wanted to, hopefully, honestly, I wanted them to be there for me, but I didn't. And I had to be there for them kind of. So it was. It turned into, well, we're not going to be there for either of each other, kind of. But we had to get to the funeral part and all of that. So that was after the tribute show and stuff, which is kind of where I thought I would get the phone, but they did not bring the phone and give it to me or anything. And we. My mom made these really cute handkerchiefs with, like, his initials and the saxophone embroidered on it. And, like, we gave one to some. To his Family, too, and things like that. So we were definitely, like, keeping them in mind at that point, but we could tell that we weren't quite on the same page about all of it. So when we were told to. I don't know the exact time, but to get the story across, like, when we were told to get to the funeral home for the initial, like, meeting and deciding everything at, like, 10:30, it was as if they all got there at 10:15 and told us to get there 15 minutes later. Because we walk in. It's me, my mom and dad, and it's his aunt, uncle, grandma, mom, brother, all on the table, sitting there already talking with the Barbie. Our amazing funeral director, though she was so great. As if. And everything was planned. Like, they had the date and the time, which I know is kind of. You get what you get sort of here and there when it comes to funeral homes, because scheduling and whatever. But I was like, shouldn't I be, like, the one to okay this? I am the next kin. And, like, it's like, you guys decided without us completely. And so that was interesting. And they're all like, no, no, no. Like, we had to do this half. But, like, it felt like they were there before us for sure. And then as we continue, I'm on, like, one end of the table, and his mom's on the other end, so they have to bring the book to, like, both sides, which I was not moving, though. And they're, like, asking me, like, well, what do you want, Francis? Well, you can do whatever you want. And, like, it comes to, like, oh, well, what should he wear? And I was like, well, I kind of always wanted him in civilian clothes, like, regular clothes. And they were all like, no. His brother instantly was like, no, he needs to be in a suit. And I was like, okay, he'll be in a suit. And then they continue to ask me, like, more questions. And I'm like, I don't know. Whatever you want. They're like, no, we want to do what you want. And then, like, I say something, and they're like, oh, no, we do it this way. And I'm like, well, I guess it's whatever I want after I say what you want is what I want. So. Because it definitely they also did pay for most of most of those things. We did give them some money for luncheon and things like that for my family, but it was very much kind of what they wanted. I think I did end up, like, picking out one of his favorite Harley Davidson shirts that he had on now underneath everything. So Like, I got my ways and stuff. Stuff just fine. But that was also when I started to see how much his family really didn't know him. Now they were stuck with the Patrick from like beginning of college kind of or something that I don't know if that was like the happy one they knew, the studious one they knew, the alcohol free one they knew. I'm not sure exactly, but like, you can tell even when, you know, you pick a picture for the brochure thing and the obituary page and all these things. And we had let them pick some of those pictures for stuff. Thankfully they did let us write like the obituary stuff. And what's it called when you read. Yeah, the eulogy. That's it. I did not write it or read it. I. My mom thankfully was able to do that for me. And we actually speak pretty similar, I think. So she said a lot and she asked me about lots of things about him that she could add in. In sections that she wouldn't know as much of, like friends and things. So I was super grateful for that because we then got like a really good picture of the Pat that day out, I think because of that, because definitely, like the pictures were like these old not so great pictures that they were picking of him to put up and they're like grainy photos and stuff like that. So thankfully I also got to pick like the prayer card photo. So it's this really great one of him from our wedding where he was just like so happy and himself too at that point in time. So it was all slowly kind of like, okay, I see now, like you are stuck with that pat. And I have this Pat. Like you don't really know the person that I know because there was also a time after we did the meeting and everything and we're like prepping with photos and stuff. I think his brother calls me again. His mom does not talk to me at all at this point. I stopped talking to her unless I saw her in person, which was like barely talking to her anyways. So his brother was contacting me at that point and called me and started asking about his saxophones. And I was like, oh, I already know where this is going. They want all the saxophones, saxophones and to go collect dust. Because another thing that was interesting and quite different about our families was I definitely am reminiscent person and can be sentimental with objects and things like that. But I think having seen how sentimental they were with things, I realized how much a picture actually does kind of save that sentimental value. And you don't need it to take up space. But we're all different too, so I'd never really judged them for this at all. I just always worried that what we were going to do one day when everybody was gone from the house that they had full of basically dead people stuff, the house that they were living in at one that his oldest brother had a bedroom. His oldest brother never lived in that house. So that was kind of weird. And it was like child bedroom esque. So that was definitely. He was in college when he passed, so that like. And that one took me a while to notice. But they told me I could go take a shower in David's room one time. And I. It like hit me like a month later that I was going into a person's room who's never even lived in that house and isn't even alive. So it was kind of these things that I'm starting to just like see about how they cope, I guess, and how they've been dealing with it. And it definitely was showing through. Coping with, with Pat also, because he was like asking about a saxophone that we didn't even have anymore. The one that his friend gave him. He was like, oh, what about the one his friend gave him? And I was like, oh, the one that Phil gave him? Yeah, he got rid of that one a while ago. You don't have that saxophone anymore. Like, they didn't even know what we had and things like that. And like what he was truly doing at that point, it was very weird because he talked to his mom on the phone often and. But it must not have been like those types of things at all, except for maybe like, how's the band going? But that's like the same thing. Oh, you know, we're going type of a deal. And so when we're packing up at the wake area where we put. I brought the saxophones and we set up a whole little section in the room for that. I, I agreed with him on the phone that they could take his family. One that they like first originally put purchased for him that they own. But I own the rest of them actually, because they bought that gift for him. And I knew they would want something because I'm not a horrible person. I'm not gonna just take everything away. I would never. But I definitely wanted those saxophones to be played and I knew if I gave all four of them to them, they would not be played. That they would probably be in a basement or something for like a really long time until they maybe got donated eventually. Because oddly enough, probably I think I have it here. His mom got sick not long after he passed with we think pancreatic cancer. Yeah, pancreatic cancer, which usually can take you pretty fast and stuff. But we didn't know anything because we weren't talking. And I actually got a phone call from a friend while I was at work hearing about when she passed. So she only passed a couple months after he did seven months. And it was pretty crazy because now I recently looked up where his brother's living because he had just moved a little closer to his mom too with his police station jet and like where he was stationed. But he's now living in that house that's this like big house that already had his. Their dad was like a big collector and so was Pat. He liked to kind of collect things, like lots of antiques and things like that. And of course if it was like related to motors too. They really liked the like motors and all of that like metal garage stuff. So the whole basement was filled with stuff already too. And now it's just filled with more stuff. It's kind of crazy. And he's living there by himself, the last of the family. It's kind of wild. And when I tell people about that and people that know the family and me, and they're like, oh, I feel so bad for the poor ex, you know, And I just kind of go, I don't. Because the rest of the way they treated us, that you'll hear right now is just. Was so shocking really. I would. In the end though, it wasn't because we kind of knew what we were getting into at. After we got to the. I think after we showed up to that meeting for the funeral home, we kind of. And we already had suspicions because we going through the wedding and things, we handled that pretty well. But there was moments where it was like, okay, what's going on?

Mental Health Advocate (76:35)

Like, it doesn't feel like you were. They accepted you as family.

Frances (76:39)

No, I don't think so. And there was lots of times too where I. I felt as if they definitely. Well, funny enough, I've been in male dominated fields a lot and growing up and I. Things like that, so. But I've been pretty lucky to never have that experience of like, oh, you're a girl, like you do the girl things. But I got that feeling from his family a lot. Like, you know, I can use a pile driver and I know what that is. And that was like shocking to them. But I used to work with power drills like all the time at my first job when I met him. So it Was, like, to me, totally normal. But those were the types of things that definitely, like, kind of made me feel like I was there. But it was, like, a little layer that, like. Like, didn't let me get through to fully be a part of them. But I. Like, Like, I. But yet she still wanted me to be like her. Her daughter. Daughter almost. But that wasn't quite how I. I guess I'm not the daughter that she thought I was. Like, I am who I am. And my mom might even want me to call her more. Sorry, I don't call you. So we were kind of at that point, me and her, but it was. We. I was fine with it. I always felt like she was upset with me still. And then it made Pat kind of always, like, want to address it and. But he would always be like, you guys have to figure that out. And I'm like, I did. I'm fine with her. I don't really know what's going on here. And so. And, you know, I thought we were presenting that pretty well throughout the process of the funeral, at least on our end. But we get to things also. Like, when we are cleaning up the wake, it was obvious which boards were theirs with the photos, because they're just, like. They had cork boards and we had whiteboards. Like, we had very different things that we brought in. And we're starting to clean things up, actually, even before we even get there. We dropped. We dropped stuff off to, like, early so they could set it up for us there. And so we dropped the saxophones off, and they set the. His family, his brother set them up. And I was like, why are you even touching them? Like, I kind of wanted that moment of a special moment to, like, put those together and set them up. Honestly, it was something because I played saxophone growing up, too, actually, which is, like, kind of a reason I fell in love with him. Not just because of his saxophone, but, like, you know, we just had these commonalities that really brought us together kind of in that, like, soul way that I think music sort of does, how it, like, goes through your. Your soul like that. And it was just insane to have hear her then say, like. Cause also, I was not gonna give them the saxophone until they gave me the phone. So I still had not gotten his phone. And his brother didn't even bring his phone to the wake. And we were. I was supposed to get it before that, to take pictures off of it. It. So it was like, well, now it's too late anyways, but still, give me the phone. Like, you don't get the saxophone until I get the phone. And they thought that was. They were all, like, mad at me for being like that. But I was like, you guys are already being interesting, so I'm gonna stand my ground to make sure I get what I want. And, like. Because they also ended up standing by, like, the head. And usually, I guess that's in normal. Traditional routes would be where the wife would stand, but I was walking around anyways. I did not really stay in one spot. I sort of did at one point, but. And so I was on, like, definitely. I was pretty far from him a lot of the time, actually. And they were, like, on top of him. And I had family members and friends of family kind of say that that was sort of interesting, like, how they were there and where we were. And, like, people noticed, definitely. So after we do our prayer and we're cleaning up, his mom says to me, like, make sure we don't mix any of the things up and take anybody else's stuff and, like, this, really. And one of my friends talked to me after and was like, did she really, like, say that in that tone to you? And I was just like, yeah. And I just responded to her like, okay, like, how am I gonna mix up any of my things with. With your things? Like, I really. There was no. The only thing I was thinking was, like, okay, are we going to mix up saxophones here? Are they going to try and take all of them or something? Like, that was my biggest concern was the saxophones. And I don't know what she was concerned about us taking of hers, so. Because I did pretty much everything else they wanted and. And more for funeral and wake and things like that, because we weren't religious or anything, me and my husband, really. But I think we both definitely, like, had a connection with higher power and spiritual because we both grew up in religion and things like that. And his family, very much so was still involved with their religion and their church and stuff, though. So we did it at the funeral at his mom's church. And his brother went there too, which was great. I did really, like the priests and things like that. And they had a service dog there at the beginning, which you can't hate on that. That's great. And it did turn out to be, like, like, really pretty. And I really think he would have been happy with that. And he would have wanted to do that for his family too, because he was very much so, like, a. Wanted to please his family and be there for them and support them, especially his mom. He Loved her so much. So I think he'd be just happy to know that she did get those things that she wanted. So I. And I was happy to know that too. I just kind of wished we could have decided to more together for sure. Because she didn't speak either at that or anything. But his brother did. And after the funeral, you know, you go, everyone drives to the cemetery and you pull the flowers and throw them. And that was really like movie esque. Honestly, there was a lot of people for that part. I haven't done that portion many times, thankfully, but that was by far the most people I've ever seen, like surrounding a grave and things like that. And luckily I got to pick the pallbearers and stuff as well. Well, so we did half and half. I think they picked three and I picked and I picked three, which worked out really well. Cause I would have picked people from his family too. I wouldn't have just like. Cause the whole band could have picked him up and stuff. But honestly, some of them weren't even the ones I wanted to pick for that. So it was his two cousins that were in our wedding and his brother who was also in our wedding. And then I had three bandmates. And funny enough, one of them was running late to that section of carrying him. So I swapped one out and it was like this moment, he's all the way in the back of the crowd and I like find him and I'm at the front and I just start walking back there and I grab his hand and I'm like, will you do this for me? And he's like, okay, sure. And we both walk up there like all quiet and it's just like this moment of okay, we got it figured out, but like everyone's looking at you. And it was kind of a nice warm day out too though. And that I think that part was relieving for me to not be in the church anymore and to actually see and stand next to my friends and things and for them to see how many of them were there for that and for me and for me first before like mom and them and stuff, like where I, you know, like this was the person I was supposed to spend the rest of my life with. And you would think someone who also left like lost theirs because she lost her husband, like, and got to spend more time with him, which is probably even harder. I don't know actually which one's harder because like I had all these plans that now changed and I felt like she could understand that. But we never connected on it, which was really disappointing because we were both widows at that time. You know, there's something that we could relate to and it was someone that we loved dearly for both of us on both ends, like for who we lost and the person that was lost. Yeah, I really wish we could have had more conversations or any actually like to relate because I think that would have unfortunately finally been the one thing we could have really related on. But in the end, I think it's best that we sort of separated because we get to the luncheon and it's at that local bar that we met that they were playing. It's in their little private room. So it was pretty cool actually. But he had a not favorite thing with the guy who owned that place. He wasn't the biggest fan of him, but like we loved the establishment. So at first I was like, I don't know if you'd want the luncheon to be there. Can we try at this other place? And I don't think they even called that place personally, but it worked out just fine. But it just is another moment for me where like they didn't take into account anything that I said, like they said they would that I noticed and I felt. But I. In the end it turned out fine. And I think I'm glad we were where we were. But when we get there too, it's like my family at a table like probably about this size and like we, we cover this table. There's like six of us and my nephew and then some like. Yeah, I think that was it. No girlfriends at the time, just a sister in law and stuff. And then my band friends and stuff like that. And my immediate really close friends and my best friend flew in from Charleston to be there for me too, which was really amazing to have her there. So we kind of all were gathered in our little spot and then of course like me and my friends and all the bands, like there's cigarette smokers and vapers and so like we were stepping outside a lot. And so we had a little group hanging out outside at one point too. It was so nice outside. But not once did like anybody from his family really approach me. Except for like his mom one time to say something to me, I think I can't remember at all, but my mom had prepped all my siblings to like protect me. And if they saw her walk up to me, like I literally, I saw her coming and then I saw two of my siblings coming from the other sides to come and like be there just to support me and they like, at that point, we all knew that these people were honestly, like, almost trying to hurt me. It felt like it was really interesting because you could also put a slideshow up at this. His place, like on the TVs that they had around. And I told them that because I had ran AV in that section before for work, and they used their slide. I had a whole slideshow of, like, both of us from our wedding. But I. I don't think I really suggested it, but I thought that might be nice to like, take those sections. And then we've got, like, it has pictures of both of us, but it has like, baby pictures of him and stuff. But they used this slideshow that they had out on a laptop at the wake. Just him, nothing from our wedding, nothing of me. There was photo families of him and his family, but, like, it was just like their era of him. Like, I. It was as if I was never involved with him at all. It was so that I. And I definitely noted that when I was there because I was outside telling everybody. I was like, guess what you got? Because I was definitely a little tipsy. That was something I struggled with for sure. I. I found some release in drinking for a little while after that. So that was a. A little struggle. But I think I've found a balance there. We can get into the. The recovery part a little further in a minute here, but I remember, yeah, going out there and telling everybody, like, you guys, did you notice I'm not in one of those photos? Like, and they're all kind of like, like still taking it into. And a lot of them knew how I was struggling with his family, and most of them were pretty shocked that that's how they were reacting towards me and things. And I don't think they even fully understood some of them until they saw things or heard later about things that happened and how we just stopped talking and things like that. But I think after the. The wake and they. They got in their cars and we gave them like, one last hug and they drove away. And I maybe sent a couple messages after that to get his possessions that they wanted back to them because there was a lot of stuff in our house, and I do have a lot of stuff, but he had way more. And I thought I was somebody that had a lot of things and stuff, but he loved trading and trinketing. Like, we had cuckoo clocks and like, just. Just little stuff from trips and all that all over the place. So I kind of went through and found what I wanted because we also had to prep the house to sell it. So we're kind of through the wake and through the funeral and the overall shock at this point and just all kind of trying to relax at now, like, the hustle part was over and you just kind of. Of sleeping kind of almost. I was definitely distracting myself with hanging out with my friends a lot. And it was August, so it was, like, end of summer time, so there's lots of stuff happening, too, so I had decent distractions. And the Barbie movie had actually just come out, so I went to go see that and ended up bawling. When that one song comes on at the end, what was I made for? I was just, oh, my gosh. And I needed to go see Barbie again because I definitely forgot what Barbie was about. But I. Me and my friends will never forget. That was, like, a really special moment, I think, for me to have that release and kind of realize, like, okay, this is real, but I have all these people right here, and they'll do whatever to help me because, like, really, they were there for me at Barbie. Like, we probably shouldn't have been at Barbie because I had already had so many drinks or whatever, and. But they were just there to support me so well, and I'm so thankful for that. And my immediate family, too, has just been. Has always been amazing. And I think we're a huge support for Pat and us throughout. And when it comes to the five years total that he and I did spend together, and then two years married, like, I felt like it was kind of my job to give him those best, like, last five years of his life. Because, honestly, when I met him, I kind of had a feeling something like this was gonna happen, because, like, I heard the story of his brother, and then I. For myself, personally, I always felt like I was gonna have something weird, hard happen to me. I don't like just that feeling or like, it hasn't happened yet. And I'm hoping this is it, because it's been a pretty crazy ride and getting through the house and stuff. We had to sell the house so fast because since I had just started that new job, we just put it. I just put him on insurance together. That was the first time we were sharing the same insurance because he had just left his job, so he was, you know, a freelance musician at that point. Professional musician, whatever you want to say. And it was definitely kind of. All right, let's clear it out, make it look nice, take pictures and get it on the market, because I don't really want to pay more than one month of like mortgage on my own with this because I'm now down to one income. And when you don't. Most insurances here, I don't know if it's all of them in America, but if you don't have your insurance for a year before death by suicide, the. The spouse doesn't get anything. And lots of times though, if it's after a year, you. It's around like a thousand a month or something. I don't know for how long or anything like that. But if like that were the case, I could have kept. Kept my house. I don't know if I would have just because it, it wasn't too big of a house, but I definitely didn't need all that space. And then it probably would have been a lot harder with. It probably would have made it a sad space if I stayed rather than staying a happy memory right now. And. But that was probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my whole entire life is moving that house and getting it ready and then like saying goodbye to it also. On top of that, thankfully we also had family friends and family help with that. But the timing was a little tough. My parents had a trip planned to Ireland with some family or friends. I think it was friends doesn't matter. But thankfully they had pretty much helped me get the house all ready before they even left on that trip. And then I was, you know, just living in their house at that point. And my house was about 20 or so minutes away, so I was driving there. I think I went back and forth there like for a full week to like paint and things when I had to do a little bit by myself, which was actually kind of nice to have those moments alone. And I could go like sit in the backyard or in whatever room and kind of take it all in. But like, bless my dad's heart because that studio room I mentioned earlier that he super glued the soundproofing foam to, we had to like rip all of it off. And my dad had to sand like all of the walls, all four walls, like top to bottom because of the foam being stuck on there and just super glue all over. And it looked awesome. Afterwards I was so thankful because like I was starting to go back to work. I think at some of this point too, when we started getting full swing, so I was. Which I think was great. I went, I took two weeks off and I went back to work and I just work like a 9 to 5. So it was really nice to have something to do and sort of keep myself moving. Work reacted kind of different too. I didn't hear much from anybody at work but like, how, what are you gonna say to people? So that was different for sure. I did get my, like, CEOs card on my desk, but we had just designed new cards, so I wasn't sure if he was just giving it to me or if that meant like, hey, you can call me and any time. But my immediate supervisor has been so amazing that I haven't needed much other help than like, those people right there in my crew. But after getting through kind of those first initial house things, I had to then go and deal with his car and the motorcycle that he had. Wow, this house is cute. But can I really get in the game in this economy? I do have savings and I am responsible. Ish. I should bury it. I'm being wild. But what if I'm not being wild though?

Uber Eats Advertiser (95:33)

Could I actually Score a kick off your home buying journey with Zillow's new buyability tool. It makes it easy to find out what you can afford so you can get off the bench and onto the playing field with confidence. Check your buyability only on Zillow. Go further with the American Express Business Gold Card. Earn 3 times Membership Rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels when you book through amextravel.com whether your destination is a business conference or a client meeting. Your purchases will help you earn more points for future trips. Experience more on your travels with Amex Business Gold. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com Business Gold AmEx Business Gold Card Built for business by American Express.

Frances (96:19)

But first, to get the whole house empty. I don't want to forget this part because I was talking about how his family's house was so full of things already. I pulled off the stuff that I wanted, kept all the things that I wanted, and I did keep like, a couple things that kind of like came from his family that he moved with. But a lot, most of it I like, offered to them still because it could be like heirloom considered or something like that. Even though it's just like a wooden dresser, who knows? That stuff's nice to kind of keep around, in my opinion, besides some of the other stuff they maybe were keeping. But that's for them to decide. So we took a picture of the, like, kind of the pile of stuff that we could send back to them that they might want of, like furniture, this really nice table that they've had and things like that. And we asked, what do you want? Tell us what you want and how we can get it. To you, and we'll do that. And they were like, we want all of it. We're gonna get a pod. Put it in the pod. So they got a pod, popped it in our driveway. I was at work, my aunt and uncle and mom, dad all loaded the pod up for me, and then it got picked up and sent over to their house. And I think that was for sure the last time we talked to them. I found a box of a couple things and a photo that my dad dropped on the porch one time when he was, like, on the way to his friends one time for me. So that was very nice of him because. Yeah, that. After that, I don't think we heard anything at all. And it was quite relieving to be done with the pod and have all that stuff gone and for. Not for us not to have to deal with it, because then I did move on to the car and the motorcycle, which were a pain. So the car had to get towed, and it was totaled. Fate, technically, because biohazard and things like that. And they don't clean it and resell it or anything. You can't really do that. So they towed it to the shop where. And it, like, stayed there for a really long time. And the guy was super gracious about that because, like, the insurance was taking a long time to do whatever. And that was super interesting. I think I got a bill of, like, $500, technically, to pay for that car to pay out. I'm like, I'm not. This isn't my car. I'm not paying it. So I think I just threw it away. And I don't know if I've paid it or not. But I was just going to wait until they made me pay it because I don't think I should have to pay that, especially considering the circumstances. But there was a moment, too, where I went to his car to get some things out of it to see what was left in there. And they let me, like, go to the car. I didn't have to, but I kind of wanted to. And that was not as bad as I thought it was going to be, actually. But, you know, the. The seat was covered in plastic and things like that. But I was glad I could kind of search the nooks and crannies to grab things. But it was really nice to sort of say goodbye to that car, too, and not have to deal with that anymore. Just check some of the things off the list. And it's just stuff that you don't think about when it happens or even after it happens. Like that you're gonna have to do. Like, it's not just you lose this person and then you move out of your house and you're good to go. It's. There's like paperwork and things like that and all this stuff that you end up doing and like chain. I ended up changing my last name back because I really did not want to be involved with his family anymore. And it. That was hard. I was, I. It made me sad for him because I was super excited for us to kind of write our story of that family name in our way. But I feel a lot more comfortable being back at my maiden name again. And I think people can tell too that like, I was really excited to get it back and people were excited for me, so. But then like, people that don't know, they're kind of like, oh, you didn't keep it? And I'm like, yeah, no. Or they, they ask if I stay in touch with his family and I just go, no, not really. And that's about it. Usually when we talk about it. But the motorcycle was the worst part because he was such a trader type guy. He bought it from somebody who didn't have the title, so he didn't have the title. And like, I couldn't really sell it without the title and I had to get the title. I would have basically had to pay as much as it was worth. It was horrible. This motorcycle was like looming over me and we only had so much longer to like leave it at the house. And then thankfully my realtor was like a family friend from my parents high school eras and stuff. And he had a barn that he put it in for us for a little bit and he was trying to help us see if we could sell it. But eventually I had to tell my dad. Just tell him, like, just tell him to do whatever he can with it. I really don't want it. I can't do any. It. I would get really upset just thinking about it because it. It was so much to do and there was so much that was just always the stuff he did, he was so good at it and like selling and buying things. Like there's a lot of things that I definitely could sell. Like we have this really cool pour over coffee machine that's like, not just the glass, like it's an actual machine, but like, I don't need it. And it's quite large and he got it on sale in like Facebook marketplace, so we could probably sell it there. But I'm so bad at that stuff. So it's These things, like, do I do that or do I just not? Like, do I want to put the energy into that? Do I do it now? And like, because I had to get rid of a lot of things and because I couldn't really take everything right away. I mean, I could have tried, but I mean, I moved a lot of my stuff into my parents house until I found an apartment. And I think I lived with them for about three months or so in there, which I had lived with them before in this bedroom. So it wasn't completely abnormal, but it had been a long time for sure, which. So that was kind of a difficult part too because I didn't really know how to act with my parents in their home and things. And I had a newfound freedom too, where I didn't have somebody else to think about anymore either. So I could go out and do things also, which that I never really did before because since Pat didn't drink, we never really went to bars or anything unless he was playing. But I love to go sit and like watch the sports and drink a beer and whatever. And so I was kind of trying to find that balance again, being home and still also like rummaging through all his stuff and then like hearing from people and you like get random gifts from people sometimes too that you don't even know. And like, there's just a lot of things that happen that you don't, you wouldn't know until like, like you experience it pretty much. Like afterwards, some of his classmates for the funeral, like one of them gave me a stone thing with like an engraved photo of us on it and like a saying. And I was like, that's great and stuff, but like, it's. After a while for me personally, I found I don't want my home to be like covered with his face. So when people give you stuff like with them on it, it's a little, it's. It's a little different. Like it's super nice of them to think of it, but for me, I had a hard time getting those types of things from people that I didn't know. But it was super nice to know that those people loved him that much, that they wanted to make me feel the love that they had for him and things. But I've. I've had a hard time with. Do I even keep some of those things just because they were so nice to gift them to me. But like, what to keep and what not to keep is definitely a struggle for a while. But I, I think I. With having the move, it was Extremely helpful for me to kind of go through it all in one moment like that. And I've slowly done it more and more since then. But I also think everybody experiences that part differently. And I feel like I would totally urge people to not rush it if they don't like the fact that his family did keep a lot of things. Like, if you can and it makes you feel good, I think that's what you should do. But I also do think people get a little lost in that, and the item might. Might weigh you down more than you think if you just take a picture and get rid of it. Because I. I definitely felt a whole release, like, leaving the house and all the things. And then, like, that last bit was the motorcycle. It felt really good to just not worry anymore. And then after that, the last. Last little bit was the last name. And now I'm at the part of. He had some really good, like, IRA and 401ks and, like, retirement stuff getting going, because lots of education places, at least around where we were, do pretty good with those. So I'm still trying to figure out how to roll those over to me, because if anything like, that is really. Besides, like, our journey and the dog, kind of like, what I got from this and selling the house was super helpful, but, like, he, you know, was building that for us. And so it's. It's really nice for me to know that, like, I still have that from him, and I want to use that in a way that he would want me to do, and that would be for, like, a happy retirement and things like that, really. So. But it's so frustrating because it's not easy. And you. And then you're reminded of them all the time, too. Like, even, like, Xfinity still emails me, hi, Patrick, you need to return. Because, like, I switched and I have to return the stuff still. The free thing that I don't know, but it's like every time I see it, it's like, oh, you reminded me. But then I'm like, well, man, I'm not Patrick. I told you to change that to Francis. And it's like all these moments where you just, like. Like knocked down for a second again. But I felt pretty lucky with maybe my upbringing, I think just allowing me to just know that all I really know to do is move forward. There's not much. At least that's help more helpful than that. Like, dwelling on the past is not gonna help. I mean, I think processing it helps, and I think that's what I've been getting good at now, because for a while when I was, like, trying to find a therapist afterwards, it was like I told the therapist the story. It was kind of like this story, you know, but a little shorter version probably, and told them how the family totally disregarded me after and things like that. And there's been moments, I feel like, where I had always been talking to the therapist kind of about me being upset about the way I was being treated from his family or the way they looked at me. And, like, all you can really do is not care that that's how they think of you, and that it just got so much more difficult when they were treating me so poorly. Like, before I could brush it off and it was fine. And I think it took a lot of us in my family months to not be upset at his family about it. And, like, if you think about it, and even just people asking, like, if we're in contact with them can be tough because you do want to say, like, yeah, they're great. Like, we get. We check in on each other. Like, that's what people would hope to hear, but instead it's a no, not at all. And that's good, because I've been happy and not felt like their burden or my burden or anything like that. And so, like, throughout that, I think because I didn't find the community that I wanted within his family, I was able to find some other communities, which I also think is, like, super important for widows especially. It's a little different when it's your loved one and, like, not your son or your brother or, like, your parent doing it. And it's also different as a widower, if it's not like they died in a car accident or they were sick, terminally ill or something, and, you know, like, they're gonna pass. So there's some differences. There's, like, some mini communities within the community, I've learned. But one of my biggest communities for me that helped was actually I started to be really big into Reddit at the time. So there's the widowers Reddit page. And that was, like, extremely helpful for me to just write my story and even write portions of, oh, they treated me this way today. And I just don't understand. People would respond in all different types of ways. Like, people would be like, wow, that's really horrible. I'm so sad. I'm sorry. Like, just, you know, move on from them. Let them stay behind. And then there'd be other people that'd be like, well, don't blame them. They're grieving too. And, like, I see both sides, for sure. I would never really blame them for the way they acted. I think they all were sick and needed maybe more help than they had, or they were denying that they needed more help than they had, or at least in, like, certain areas of their life and things. Because I think it could have gone a lot differently if they had a more open mind on that and things. Because there was some things. I do feel like they were just kind of set in their ways, which a lot of us can be. And I just found community is so important for me and anybody that is going through a loss. But I think finding it within people that aren't the immediate ones that went through that same experience with you, but went through similar is the most important part. Kind of like why I decided to come tell my story here today. Because I know I'm not the only person that went through this. And I still have one last kind of portion of the story that I found out once we got talking to the police and stuff that's like, the most shocking to people a lot when we were gathering things from the police and all that. And I finally found out that he had, like, left and gone back to get the gun. And then I got his phone so I could go through his text messages. I had to get, like, kind of small bits and pieces. But we talked to the police finally, and we went into the station to actually talk to them at this point, because something. I think that's kind of what they told us to do, because I was trying to figure out the phone at that point. They were telling me how it looked like he went and drove to, like, the. His phone tracker was saying it looked like he had gone to his mom's to pick up and probably found the gun. So I was like, I didn't even know there was any guns at his mom's house, because he has access to his mom's house. Like, that's like a second home for him. And so I was kind of like, okay, weird. And then. But, like, we knew that obviously then. Now he got a gun from there. And I. Right then I asked, was it a revolver? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, was it black? And she kind of goes, I'm not sure. We can check on that. And they came back and it was. And I was like, that's the same exact one his brother used. So it was crazy because I kind of knew that they had that one, but I forgot. Like, I just. It was so weird of a thing. I sort of Put it in the back of my mind on top of the rest of the guns because it wasn't really my thing. So I was like thinking in my head like really like how did he get that? Like why did they have it? Like why did. And I always was thinking why would you have it in the first place in general? And so I even at first, for a long time I thought it was like illegal for them to have which may be certain states or something, but I don't think so. I like did some researching recently and they do like confiscated after it's used wrongly but after the investigation is over, they release it. Most people just don't want it so they put it up for auction or something. But I guess his family wanted it maybe, but I don't. He told me the story, but I just really kind of. It's sort of been coming back to me since I've looked stuff up and I'm thinking they just didn't want it to get auctioned and like into somebody else's hands and they wanted to destroy it because after a while when he started remembering it was like there more he was trying to find out a way to destroy it and like never got to that point. And I was kind of just saying like can't we just release it to the police and tell them to do something with it? Like, like can't. But I was just like that's your thing to figure out, not mine. I'd have no history with that. But like now I, I do. Cuz it. So once I found that out too, I was like, can you make sure like that thing is destroyed and it gets in nobody else's hands? Like I don't want anybody else to have that anymore. And they were pretty shocked when I told them that it was the same one his brother had used to. The cops were like we had no idea. Like, okay. Whoa.

Mental Health Advocate (112:59)

You think his parents realized that?

Frances (113:02)

Oh yeah. No, they knew because she, she had it in her home. That was the one gun she had in her home.

Mental Health Advocate (113:07)

Okay.

Frances (113:08)

And they all knew every single.

Mental Health Advocate (113:09)

And they, they were all. That's what they used. That's what he used. Right, okay.

Frances (113:13)

And they were all like kind of like family guns. I'm sure some of them he got on his own, but it was sort of like a him and his brother thing that they did together and but.

Mental Health Advocate (113:22)

Like his mom or his dad, they never like called you and told you that like you ended up finding that information out on your own?

Frances (113:30)

Yeah, pretty much. I, I knew the story of his brother Using it because he told me. And then because of the, like asking the cops the questions, we found out that it was that gun. And then I went through his text messages to his mom, actually. And so the day that he went to go get the gun and everything, it. He forgot the. The garage code to his mom's, which is kind of an ADHD thing of him to do maybe, but that seemed super odd to me. Unless she recently changed it or something. Like he used to live there, like, not like when I met him. So it wasn't that long ago. Like, how could you forget the garage code? And she gave him the garage code. And then like the rest is pretty much history from there. And learned from the text messages too. Thankfully, I kind of got some closure with. He was gone before I even was at my friend's house and I made any of those comments. It's like I knew almost that he had done that. I just never expected that to actually be true. But that was kind of relieving for me. I was like, oh, I didn't put any ill will on him that way by saying things like that I needed to release and things like that. And that was. I was so thankful to have that moment to like look through his phone for those. Because eventually I did factory clear it and give the phone back to them because they were like, you can either buy it from us for $700 or we can give it back to the plan people and they'll refund us. And I was like, I'll give it back to you. Because I had his passwords and stuff at that point to do anything helpful for paperwork wise and whatnot. And I have his like old laptops still, so it was all clear at that point. But. But it was quite shocking to know that his, like, I feel like I realized that's why his family was being so cold, because they didn't want to blame themselves. They wanted to maybe blame me about it more. Not that it's necessarily their fault either, but it maybe would have been pushed back a little further if he couldn't have found that gun that day, you know? Know, I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but I think it definitely played into things. But I think that just kind of goes with gun safety too. Honestly, there should have. Like it was in a safe that he knew the code to like change the code to the safe or, you know, like. Or is there a key to that safe too? Maybe he probably knew where that was. Like they needed to take, I think, some extra steps. Like I had done that maybe just didn't get thought of or something. So I'm not, I'm not sure really how he even knew it was there. I think he just probably assumed it might be and found it. So that's always been for a while. I was like, did he go, did like a friend give him one? Like, everybody knows that might have one. Like, I was like, do we need to go get someone arrested for like giving this man a gun who's not supposed to have one? Like, I. And they knew, they. And I, I might have said some of these. I don't know if I said that in front of them or not, but I feel like they knew I hadn't. His family knew and I hadn't known yet. So it was just all like super disappointing that I had to find out this information from the police and things like that. And then I did get to read like their statements. And in both of their statements, well, his brothers was a little more straightforward. And it said that he, he had just told him how his wife wanted a divorce. And I was like, oh, that's not what I said. But okay. And then like those are the first people to talk to the police too. So I'm over here, like, maybe the police think I'm this like horse cold woman or something, I don't know. But really the police were actually quite good once we did get to them and stuff. But I was a. I was pretty disappointed in actually not being contacted as well. I think that would have changed a little bit of the after effects of things. But once you kind of get over that initial shock and processing of it all, I think it was pretty helpful to actually keep moving forward. Like I was mentioning and I have dated since then and things. And I also, like, I want to put out there. Like, I don't think there's a right or wrong time to start dating afterwards. I think that that's totally up to you. I'm somebody who sort of believes that not everybody's supposed to be in love with just one person. I have so much love to give. So I think I fall in love like every day. But it doesn't mean I give all those people all of that love. But I definitely give my, my love to a lot of people just because that's who I am. And I think that's allowed me to, to heal because these people naturally like ask you about yourself too. And then they kind of can give their perspective on what you're going through and they don't even know you. And I've kind of found some solace in that. Like, I went on our postponed honeymoon finally. We kind of pushed it because we got married during COVID times and we wanted to go to Hawaii. So we were waiting, and then, like, with the band and stuff, we just. We had it scheduled for that following, like, April, and we had to postpone it because he went to the hospital the first time. We were supposed to go, like, two weeks after he got out, but he just wasn't ready. So we postponed that. And then we were gonna plan it again, but we had never gotten to that point. So, like, we never went to Hawaii. So I decided to go on my own. And that was huge for me, I think, taking that and actually going by myself, too, to have, like, kind of just moments of quiet and, like, a new place as well, where nothing would remind me of him, but I was still, like, thinking of him and processing. And it was funny because, like, I think I did more things that he wouldn't have wanted to necessarily do when I was there, but I still did some stuff like. That he specifically would have wanted to do and wouldn't have necessarily been my pick. But there were some things I had to skip out on that I just. I really wanted to see, but I just didn't think I could. Like, the Pearl Harbor Memorial, I really wanted to see. I hear that's really great, but. But I mean, it's just a sad story already in general, and we both really like history, so I was kind of like, I don't know if I can go, but I had the ticket and everything. I was ready, and I went to, like, a luau. And that was kind of tough because I was sitting there all by myself, and there are all these couples sitting next to you, and then that's not exactly the. The place you want to tell your story, so. But I think I did mention it to them, and they were all really kind after that and that. So that was. Was. That was still really cool. But I. I left early. That was kind of difficult, but I had made some really great friends out there and stuff like that. And you'll actually find when you go out and talk to people that are older than you, that they are a little wiser with the more time on earth that they've had. And they have some very nice things to say to people. I. I've spoken and exchanged stories now with a lot of older people who have maybe gone through loss like this, too, because you don't find so many young people that have lost their spouse. Like, unfortunately, we've lost a lot of young people in my area and our friends were kind of used to that. But it's a little different when it's come down to, like, that partner of yours. And I don't think I know of anybody else who's lost like, the immediate partner or some like, maybe boyfriend, girlfriend. But I've never really met anyone quite so far in my age range that's lost their spouse. So it's kind of. For a while it felt like I was wearing, you know, like a scarlet letter sort of, because it's not. People definitely heard about it in town, but it wasn't like everybody heard about it but, you know, like, small enough where like these people kind of know or they heard about that or because even the band, like, they just heard from the band that one of the members is gone. So for a while I did feel like I was walking around like. Like people just know that that's the girl, that's a widow or a girl whose husband passed away and stuff like that. And like, I was definitely a face scene because of the band. So, like, people had seen my face in town moments. And they would play the, like, summer festival every summer usually. So a lot of people would recognize me from that, selling their merch and whatnot. So, like, I just knew that people were kind of gonna know who I was already. And I was going to be going out in my hometown a lot more again because I was at my parents now. But I honestly, I fell in love with it. I really like being home and it makes me feel really good. And I've found some really strong new friendships because the band is also touring a lot. So they've. And they've always been hard to nail down, even before losing Pat and things. So trying to find the at home moving forward group and things like that has thankfully been a pretty nice journey because of just, I think the home comfortability that I've had. There's like old friends from high school that I started to see more that when I would be out that would like, always be looking out after me and things too, and just be happy to see me out and. But they didn't make me feel weird, like, oh, you're out. Like, it's so good to see you. Like, for a while I had that at the shows. I would go see the band play a lot. After a while, I think it took me like a show or two, but I have a different feeling on that now. I don't really go see them play as much. I have recently, I was sick the last time. But I find that I'd rather be hanging out with them than like watching them perform. Even though it's super fun and I love to dance. But it's. That's been a difficult thing to kind of navigate for me because I am no longer part of the band like I was anymore. Like, I don't have the in or any anything, which is fine and I kind of prefer it that way. But it's like when they are home, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to see them. And that's why I'm definitely grateful for having met those people out so far that I've met. And I went through one whole relationship that was probably just because I liked to go out and drink and so did they. And that wasn't. I mean, it got me. They were very helpful and I think it was nice for me to have someone by my side in some of those moments. And he definitely went to some of those shows with me where I maybe got really emotional afterwards too and probably was mean and things like that. And I was like, happy to have someone there in those moments and great guy, just not, not ready for anybody. So after that I felt. I stopped seeing him right before I went on my trip to Hawaii. So I kind of came home like really refreshed and happy and I started to do all of my work stuff again. But it's really been a wave of good and bad up and down. And I'm kind of in a. In a good spot right now. I think, like, they could even tell at work. But I think that's why it's really important to have a good relationship with people at work, or at least one person at work to be able to like, let them know how you're feeling, mental health wise in any level, you know, if you struggle with that stuff. I think it's important for people to establish that relationship with. With someone in their workspace. So that way if something does happen in the middle of the day, you can be like, hey, I need to just go take a break really quick. And they don't ask any questions, you know, that's been extremely helpful for me. But I definitely think for a while I was just kind of like, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I just want to have fun. And so because I was like, for me, not a lot of my immediate dreams and plans changed. It was just like, I don't have to assist in another person's dreams anymore. But that Was like, okay, so now I have all this time sort of not dedicated to somebody else, and. And what am I gonna do? I must just always be someone that likes relationships, too, because I now have found another lovely boyfriend. But I like this one a lot more. Well, the other one was great, too, but Luke, he's really great. We. He's probably about to move in with me, so that's really nice. And it's funny to think how kind of different he is from Pat, actually, but he's from our hometown also, so he knew who Pat was. They weren't friends or anything, but he's seen the band play. And so there's also been some moments where, like, I have clothes of Pat's, and I'm not afraid to offer it to Luke to wear if he needs to. And he's like, as long as you don't think it's weird. Like, I don't think it's weird. But he pauses, like, every time I say, you know that's pets, right? And then he's like, oh, okay. I'm like, but I don't care. It's fine. I think that's. I. If I want you to wear it, wear it. Go for it. Because I wear a lot of his stuff here and there. And he had a lot of clothes, like, a lot of clothes, so I've kept a handful, and there's still probably, like, plenty of clothes, but that's at his family's house now. But that. It. He has been extremely understanding with all of this, but it's been nice, too, because he actually went through a pretty rough divorce, like, two years before we kind of got back to being friends. So again, there's that meet people twice theory. I had known him in high school and middle school, and now my. I'm with my boyfriend now, so. And we were both pretty big athletes back then, so we kind of. We were both pretty good at what we did, too. So we definitely knew each other and things like that. So I've been feeling quite lucky lately, I think, with the way it's all been going and just how I've been able to handle it. I just. I'm kind of shocked sometimes. I still feel like, is the shoe gonna drop, or do I just. Have I just been dropping little ones here and there? Because there's definitely been times where it's, like, hard to get to work and. And take my showers and whatever, but. But that's why I do think therapy will be my next step. But we're trying. We're shipping Easter Gifts with a rapid fire round of questions. Ready?

Mental Health Advocate (127:46)

Yes.

Frances (127:46)

My gift. Can you pack it? Yep. Ship it?

Uber Eats Advertiser (127:49)

Yes.

Frances (127:49)

Guarantee it? Of course. Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.

Uber Eats Advertiser (127:56)

Yes, no and yeah.

Frances (127:58)

Are you the UPS store? Hey, we have a winner. Visit the upsstore.com guarantee for full details.

Uber Eats Advertiser (128:05)

Most locations are independently owned.

Frances (128:06)

Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store. Visit a store today. Trying to find someone, that's just tough. And then like you get, you're like on it, trying to book stuff and then like when they cancel, you're like, oh, shoot. And then you forget for a while. My hardest thing has actually been like getting to appointments. I don't really know why. I'm sure a lot of people going through grief, like struggle with different tasks of doing and things. But like, I also found out that like I started to get high blood pressure after and that could also have been like, involved with. I like slowed at first. I was working out a bunch and dancing. I love to dance. I was using that as therapy, like a lot. But that slowed down too because just moving and not having the same gym and just my schedule was different with driving and where I was living and stuff like that. But finally I think it all just has been able to lift where I can notice those moments where I'm not doing it. And that's why I moved to where I'm at now. I've been in a second apartment just like adjusting to figure out where I do want to live and stuff like that. And like, I definitely one day think I still might even move out of state and whatnot. But. But right now where I'm at, I feel extremely happy. My newest apartment has been just the perfect place for me and my dog. And I've been able to make it mine, yet still have all of those like, aspects of Pat in the background for me to feel like I have like a Pat hug here and there and stuff like that, but it's not covered in his stuff, which I do feel like sometimes people can be like, oh, this is weird. But in, in the end, I think you just do whatever you're comfortable with because if the people you love, most of them will understand and they'll tell you if it's crazy or not.

Mental Health Advocate (129:59)

Somebody heals different and copes differently. So it's fine. Whatever works for you and makes you feel the best.

Frances (130:05)

That's why I guess I, I tell myself that all the time. But then I like think to myself how did those people cope by being so mean to me and things like, like that. But then I, I, we try not to, I like, try not to think about that part so much anymore. And I do think it was somewhat helpful actually to know that we weren't going to be running into like, his mom anymore and things like that. But it's like, sad for why. But it's just they, you know, that was their journey, I guess.

Mental Health Advocate (130:35)

And well, besides that's, that's just how some people are.

Frances (130:38)

They're a little poisoned. Yeah.

Mental Health Advocate (130:40)

With and without grief. And you can't change people, you know. And unfortunately, you know, I think when something like that happens, it, it would be nice if people came together and did things in a very loving way. But not everybody can be like that or was raised that way and all you can do is say, you know, thinking about you.

Frances (131:00)

Yeah, exactly. So. Well, I didn't even get that. But that's okay. I think that's maybe the hardest part with understanding his family is like, I never knew them without grief, you know, I never met them without having big loss cross. So it's like, it was like everybody sort of tiptoed around certain situations and stuff like that, which for me, I'm not really good at tiptoeing. I'm pretty, I'll like, haul right through it and get going and stuff. So. I'm extremely grateful to have been able to even just share this story here and be able to be in a spot to tell it and share things with people. And I just want everyone, like anyone who's dealt with someone that's death by suicide, like, it's never anybody's fault either. That's sometimes the hardest part. And it's all about the sickness. It's such a struggle and it's so sad to see. But all you can really do is help and be there for that person and make sure you take care of yourself too. Because I think that's what allowed me to have a nice recovery here so far is like, I didn't suck into, like, being completely taken over by all of it. I tried to, you know, come up for gasps of air here and there by like, going to the gym and, and keeping something of my own, like dancing to have, like. It's good to have that release that you don't really need anybody else for, to do it that you can do on your own. And that's just been extremely helpful.

Mental Health Advocate (132:30)

Yeah.

Frances (132:31)

Oh, there's a couple more fun things of just how they treated me, but like, the first time I Think I would visit his grave often. At first it was kind of nice. And I liked bringing the dog, even though you're technically not supposed to have the dog. We wouldn't stay for very long. But the first time I brought her, too. It was great. We walk right up to him. She stops and she pees right on top of him. Second time, she did the same thing. Third time, she did the same thing. She knows, and she's just marking her man. She knew. It was. That was really awesome. I'm not gonna lie. I loved that. And we both just kind of sat there for a minute one day. That was really great. And I'll, like, go eat lunch with him sometimes, sit there. But, you know, it takes a while for the grass to grow back and to get a gravestone and a headstone. And so that was. They had a whole plot. It was like their families. There's a bench for his brother already. And his dad was there, and so he's there now. And finally we finally see that there's stuff on the headstone of it. And, you know, not. Not very shockingly, it only reads like, loving brother, son, and musician. There was, like, no husband in there or anything. So it's like we kind of knew at the luncheon, like, okay, I'm not. It's. They just erased the last two years, basically, it seems like. So that. But that was, like. I think when a lot of my friends realized how they were actually treating me, because I sent that to, like, the band right away. I. Because I was like. Like pretty pissed at first, ready to go eat my lunch. And then I see this. And funny enough, my mom had just gone maybe an hour or so before me that day and saw it, and she was like, I'm gonna have to tell her now. And then I told her how I saw it, and then we had that moment of. So I think we were supposed to see it on that day. For some reason, I don't even remember if it was a special day or not that I went because, like, I'll go on, like, his birthday and stuff like that sometimes. But, like, it was. That was just interesting. But even worse than that is they would throw my flowers away and stuff that I left for him. I would leave, like, the cones that say beloved husband or special person. I like. Like, the first one said husband, so the next one I got didn't say it. So I thought. Because I thought maybe they'd leave it. But no, they still just threw it away. So. And I know it was them, and it wasn't like the forest or the cemetery, because I've been back with like the next door one, still having the same flowers there and stuff. So that was. I just. That part I never understood. Who does? Like, that's like defacing a grave, sort of. I know it's just the decorations, but that I never really understood at all. Unhappy, bitter people who can throw someone's flowers away that are being given to their loved one too, but. And we had gotten this cute little metal saxophone that we stuck there too. I wish that was still there. That was the coolest part. But overall, now I'm. I'm wondering if the flowers might stay because I don't know who was throwing them away, but his mom is next to him over there, which is kind of crazy. And the first time I went over there when she was buried was really weird too. But she's on like the other side of. Not next to him, thankfully, I guess. But every time I go, I, you know, I clear off and I try to clean every single headstone instead of just his and stuff like that, you know, I still want to be nice to all of them, even. Even her. Why not?

Mental Health Advocate (136:05)

Yeah, it shows your character, which is. Is important.

Frances (136:09)

I think it's a lot harder to be mean than it is to be nice the time. So. I mean, it can be really hard to be nice to. To the right people. But yeah, I. I can't be upset at them for acting the way they were. And I think it's definitely prepared me for more people in the future and things like that too. So it is what it is at this point with them. And I. I still wonder if his brother's with that one girlfriend that stared at us crazy during the whole funeral or not. That's like the only thing I think I think about other than that I don't think about his family.

Mental Health Advocate (136:44)

And you don't talk to the brother at all either?

Frances (136:46)

No.

Mental Health Advocate (136:46)

Okay.

Frances (136:47)

No, he probably. He was, you know, on his mom's side too. Very much so. Like, I would see no reason to. To need to at this point either. Although I do have, like, worries that I might drive through his town and get pulled over by him or something. But he does know my car, so I don't know. I don't know if he'd do it on purpose or not. I think he'd avoid me personally.

Mental Health Advocate (137:09)

Like you said, it really is important to talk about this not only for the loss aspect and the suicide aspect, but also the mental health part of it, because that's really hard, you know, Like I mentioned before, too, if you haven't experienced mental illness, I think firsthand, or with somebody that you're close with, it can be hard to really grasp. Grasp how heavy it is and how much of a toll it can take. And I think even just talking about that and shedding light on that is so important, and having a sense of community, because you didn't get that really from his family, which is hard. Obviously, it's great that you had your family and your friends, but, you know, in a time like that, all that you want to feel is love and support. So that can really add to the trauma and loss of it all. It's really heartbreaking. And that's the only way to really look at it. And you can really only feel bad for people that act like that in those kind of times. But once again, that's another aspect that I'm sure people could relate to, you know, because not every. Not every relationship that you have with someone, you're not always going to have a good relationship with their family. So people can, I'm sure, relate to that as well. So I think those are just really important aspects to talk about and to shed light on. And you did an amazing job.

Frances (138:27)

Thank you.

Mental Health Advocate (138:27)

Throughout all of it.