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I Killed My R*pist - We're All Insane | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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I Killed My R*pist

We're All Insane

Sun Mar 15 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: We're All Insane Episode: I Killed My R*pist Host: Devorah Roloff Guest: Clark Fredericks Date: March 15, 2026

Episode Overview

This harrowing and powerful episode features Clark Fredericks, who recounts his journey from childhood sexual abuse at the hands of a trusted authority figure through decades of trauma, addiction, and, ultimately, homicide—killing his abuser. Clark’s narrative is an unfiltered exploration of the lifelong consequences of abuse, the complex psychology of trauma, and the path to redemption. The conversation moves from Clark’s earliest experiences, through the darkest years of addiction and criminal entanglements, to his time in prison and subsequent advocacy work. Clark’s story is both cautionary and inspirational, highlighting the importance of breaking silence, seeking healing, and reclaiming agency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Clark’s Motivation and Book Journey

Clark introduces himself and his memoir "Scarred," explaining the importance of buying the legitimate copy due to copycats.
- “You pour your heart and soul into something that'll change lives and then just people steal it. So the book is like, phenomenal. It's got a 4.9 rating on Amazon and a 4.7 on Goodreads.” (03:44)
- Clark emphasizes his intent to inspire other survivors, not just to sell books.

2. The Childhood Abuse (06:00–16:00)

Clark details growing up in rural Stillwater, NJ, and being targeted by Boy Scout leader and sheriff’s lieutenant, Dennis Pegg.
- Abuse began after Clark’s life-threatening open-heart surgery at age six.
Grooming techniques described:
- Initiating touch by having young Clark show and let his scar be touched for money, gradually desensitizing him.
- Secrecy encouraged: “Secrets are a predator's lifeline. Like, they have to have secrets. If I told right away, he stopped in his tracks. They thrive on secrets and they thrive on threats, and they thrive on that connection, that bond between you.”
- Use of authority and trustworthiness as a shield.
Escalation:
- Introduction to beer and pornography, manipulation through fabricated stories, and building a sense of exclusivity.
- Sexual acts progress over several years, culminating in rape at age 12. (16:00)
- Pegg’s use of threats—after the rape, he beats his own dog to instill fear in Clark and ensure silence.
- “At 12 years old, I thought I could put this in a nice little box...all will not be well. You might be able to buy yourself some time, decades. But that box is going to break open at some point and all that trauma and pain and shame is going to come out and it's going to derail your life.” (23:15)

3. Aftermath & Coping (24:00–53:00)

Immediate response:
- Clark begins using drugs very young (smoking weed at 13), lacking coping skills or safe adults to confide in.
- “Your innocence is completely stripped from you.” (24:18, Deb)
Family Dynamics:
- Attempts by Clark’s father to ask if Pegg abused Clark, but Clark denies it—fearful of repercussions, shame, and a desire not to burden his parents.
- “I didn't want to be responsible for my father going, doing life in prison. Or my father getting killed as he tries to avenge me.”
Compounded Trauma:
- Clark’s neighbor and surrogate brother Jeff commits suicide at 17; Clark suspects Pegg’s abuse played a role.
- Academic and behavioral decline, ongoing substance use, and inability to engage in healthy relationships or careers.
Escalating addictions: Alcohol, cocaine, gambling (leading to mob involvement and threats), and ultimately opioids and heroin.
- “You want to kill somebody? I'm telling you, don't. Because I did it.”

4. The Breaking Point (60:00–76:00)

Trigger event: In his mid-40s, Clark sees Pegg with a boy the same age as when Clark was first assaulted. This encounter rips open old wounds and triggers a collapse into deeper addiction and psychological distress.
- “He had a young boy about the age he raped me at by his side. And that young boy called him the same nickname he used to make me call him when I was that age...and my life fell apart. That day. That was it.” (60:03)
The pivotal confession: On a drug-fueled bender, Clark for the first time tells a friend about his abuse. This admission quickly precipitates the fatal confrontation.

5. The Killing of Dennis Pegg (64:45–77:16)

Clark describes the surreal confrontation and altercation resulting in Pegg’s death.
- “The devil isn’t a guy with horns...the devil is someone who sits on the historical society with the little old ladies...and he’s raping little boys.” (64:51)
- “I kneeled down in front of him, I got eye level with him and I said, it's not so fun raping little boys now, is it, Dennis? And I slit his throat.” (74:00)
Aftermath:
- Clark reflects that killing Pegg did not bring relief or healing.
- “In no way whatsoever did anything for healing. Like, you don't heal from the trauma of abuse by adding in the trauma of murder.” (75:45)
- He warns other survivors against fantasies of revenge: “If you're an abuse victim and you do what I did, you're going to end up in prison with all that trauma with you, and now you're in absolute hell.” (76:53)

6. Arrest and Incarceration (77:25–108:45)

Clark narrates his arrest, suicidal ideation, his journey through the legal system, and the surprising community support ("Free Clark" campaigns, courtrooms filled with supporters).
Judicial outcomes:
- Initial charge: first-degree murder (30 to life), plea deal to second-degree manslaughter (5–10 years).
- Ultimately given the 5-year minimum sentence by a judge who apologizes to Clark.
- “Your story is timeless...trauma, revenge, redemption—the full arc, because people are always going to need that.” (146:12)
Healing in prison:
- Clark reads Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning, Eckhart Tolle’s The Power of Now—begins to center healing, mindfulness, and exercise.
- Finds group therapy (notably, a groundbreaking trauma group), religious faith, discovers meditation, and writes his memoir.

7. Redemption, Advocacy, & Full Circle (119:19–143:39)

Upon release, Clark becomes an advocate, instrumental in changing New Jersey law to extend the statute of limitations for childhood sexual abuse lawsuits.
- “People don't come forward and talk about their abuse till age 48 to 52. This gives everybody time to heal before they have to worry about a lawsuit.” (119:56)
Memoir and speaking career: Clark’s book "Scarred" gets published after multiple proposals and he eventually speaks before prosecutors and legislators.
- “You tried to put me away for life, and now you're like, you're doing great things. You're helping people. We love the trajectory of your life. We want you to come be our speaker.” (142:00)
Healing and Relationships:
- Clark reconnects and rebuilds a relationship with his college girlfriend, Lisa; they now live together and contemplate marriage.

8. Giving Back: Ongoing Outreach & Coaching (125:13–134:57)

Clark describes his ongoing work coaching other survivors, podcasting ("Free Like Me"), and supporting people globally to break their silence and begin healing.
- “You can't heal from something you can't talk about. How can you heal from if you can't address it?” (Clark Fredericks)
The power of telling one's story: “Every time you tell your story, the hold it has on you lessens. Like, when you can't speak about it, it's got you firmly in control. When you can speak about it on your own terms, you're in control of it. And it's a big shift and it happens over time.” (89:29)

Notable Quotes & Moments

On secrets and grooming:

“Secrets are a predator’s lifeline. If I told right away, he stops in his tracks. They thrive on secrets and they thrive on threats, and they thrive on that connection, that bond between you.” (10:59, Clark Fredericks)

On shame and silence:

“You gotta get it out. You can't heal from something you can't talk about.” (Clark, 29:23)
“It's a big shift for people, and it happens to everyone who starts talking about it.” (Clark, 90:46)

On revenge and justice:

“You don't heal from the trauma of abuse by adding in the trauma of murder... Don’t do what I did, get that thought out of your head and start healing.” (76:00–77:00, Clark Fredericks)

On healing and faith:

“When you are faced with a situation you cannot change, you are challenged to change yourself.” — referencing Viktor Frankl (100:17)

On advocacy and lasting impact:

“There’s very few of us that have gone and done that. And you’re gonna end up in prison with the same trauma you were trying to get rid of. It’s not the place you want to go heal. So just start healing now.” (91:41, Clark Fredericks)
“Don't ever compare mountains.” (133:49, Clark Fredericks)
"When you can help that next person...you really take your healing to the next level." (143:39, Clark Fredericks)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Introduction & Book Story: 01:18–04:00
Early Abuse & Grooming: 04:03–16:00
Trauma, Coping, Substance Use: 16:00–53:00
Mob Threats, FBI Involvement: 47:15–53:21
Collapse, Relapse, Trigger Event: 60:03–64:45
The Killing Event & Aftermath: 64:45–77:16
Arrest, Prison, Early Healing: 77:25–108:45
Therapy, Faith, Mindfulness in Prison: 108:45–119:55
Advocacy, Legal Reform, Speaking: 119:19–143:39
Relationships, Reconnecting with Lisa: 137:00–142:00
Final Reflections and Ongoing Work: 143:40–146:46

Episode Takeaways

Survival is possible: Clark’s story demonstrates both the enduring impact of trauma and the extraordinary capacity humans have for recovery and change.
Breaking silence is essential: Healing begins with sharing—the act of voicing one's truth can loosen trauma’s grip and inspire others.
Revenge is not healing: Violence begets more pain; true healing requires facing the wounds, not perpetuating harm.
Community and advocacy matter: Clark’s transformation from victim to advocate shows how individual stories can shift laws and impact countless others.
Redemption arcs are real: From a tragic background, Clark has rebuilt his life, found love, and created meaning by helping others.

Further Information:

For more on Clark’s story, get his memoir “Scarred” (ensure it’s the correct edition with the bike on the cover).
Clark’s podcast: "Free Like Me"
Coaching & speaking opportunities via his website (see show notes for links).
If you or someone you know needs help, reach out—talking is the first step toward healing.

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Transcript

Deb (0:00)

Hey, guys. I just dropped an all new episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane. Plus, this month's episode is called Stalked for 25 Years. Listen now, by subscribing to We're All Insane plus for just 5.99amonth inside your Apple or Spotify app or go to we're allinscean.com.

Clark Fredericks (0:21)

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Deb (1:14)

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Clark Fredericks (1:18)

1-800-contacts dev. So my girlfriend Lisa and I drove down from Westchester, New York. Amazing to see you. And we had a great dinner. We got some Maryland crab cakes.

Deb (1:34)

Love it.

Clark Fredericks (1:34)

Yeah, it was awesome.

Deb (1:35)

Gluten free.

Clark Fredericks (1:36)

Gluten free ones, yes, indeed. And now I'm ready to share my story with your audience. I wrote a book as I sat in prison. And three and a half years ago, I got a book deal from Simon and Schuster, one of the major publishing houses. And the book came out, we sold out the first print. We're flying through the second print. So just a cheesy plug here.

Deb (2:01)

I love it.

Clark Fredericks (2:02)

And the only reason I want to show the book is not for a cheesy plug, everybody. But I didn't know, like, when you have a successful book, copycats pop up on Amazon overnight. Like, at one time, there was eight different copycats using my name, Clark Fredericks. My title scarred. And like, just a different, like, AI generated book cover.

Deb (2:25)

Clark Fredericks (5:54)

So I grew up in a little town in New Jersey called Stillwater, New Jersey. And it's, it's just like it sounds. You know, there's fishing and hunting and, and snowmobile riding. And we've got a ski resort, Mountain Creek ski resort in our county. And everything is outdoor related. And you know, you think abuse happens in urban areas, highly populated areas, and people let their guard down in our little area of Stillwater. And especially I grew up, I'm a little older than you, so I grew up in the 70s and 80s. And back then there was no helicopter mothers, you know, there was no cell phones, there was no computers. Your parents wanted you out of the house, they wanted you playing, they wanted you coming home. Dirty one. You were supposed to be home at dinner time and as soon as you could learn to ride a bicycle, you know, like, be gone. And we lived at a lake community. So like we had the lake, we had a dam and it went into the river. There was basketball courts, tennis courts, softball field, jungle gym, just everything down there. So everybody congregated down at the lake and especially at the dam area. And my. I had an older brother, six years older than me and my next door neighbor Jeff, who was six years older than me. He and my brother were joined at the hip. So Jeff was like older brother to me. And they got involved in the scouts, Boy Scouts, since they were older than me. At six years old, I had open heart surgery. I was born with a hole in my heart. The doctors monitored me till I was six years old. And they said we have a six month window to operate. So I got this life or death surgery back in 1971, and less than three, four months after that surgery, my brother's boy scout leader, who was also a lieutenant in the sheriff's department, always had a gun, always had his badge. Big hulking guy, but someone who I loved. Like I was a little guy and he was this towering presence of authority and safety. So I thought next to my father, that's who I looked up to. And he came to our house on a summer day and everybody, we had a big backyard, we had a screened in porch, we had a bar. And I came in to get a drink and watch cartoons for a minute and the den was right next to the front door and boom, boom, boom. And it's the Loud towering voice of Dennis Pegg, the sheriff slash boy scout leader. I bounded up out of my chair. I let him in. He tussled my hair. And he said, where is everybody, little buddy? And I said, they're all out back. And he said, let's sit down for a minute in the den. Now, my parents were so proud of me for surviving this open heart surgery that they used to have me lift my shirt up and collect a quarter from all their friends. And he had been one of the people I collected a quarter from. So he's like, let me give you a quarter to see your scar. I was like, okay. Then, you know, lift my shirt up. And he's like, I have keloid condition. So my scars raised up. And he's like, how about I give you a dollar if you let me touch your scar? I was like, sure. And so this went on for a minute where he's rubbing his fingers up and down my scar. And then he goes, like, below my scar to, like, my pant line, pushing my abdomen. Is your stomach sore from the surgery? I'm like, no, not at all. So he's pushing and touching. He's like, okay. He's like, here's your dollar. He's like, now this has to be our little secret. Like, we can't be army buddies. If. If you tell anybody that I touched your scar, that has to just between be between you and I. I was like, all right. Then, like, not understanding why he wanted me to keep a secret, But I'm like, all right. So what he's done already is predators have to initiate touch at some point. And just the tussling of the hair. I see. I see people tussle somebody's hair, and it just, like, sends a shiver up my spine because to the average person, it's harmless to a predator, it's their way of initiating touch.

Clark Fredericks (11:06)

Like, if you can't trust the lieutenant in the sheriff's department, who's a boy scout leader, who's in every organization under the sun, he's the chaplain at the VFW post. You know, if you can't trust that, who can you trust? So I trusted him. So he's initiated touch and he's brought in secrecy. Secrets are a predator's lifeline. Like, they have to have secrets. If I told right away, he stopped in his tracks. They, they thrive on secrets and they thrive on threats, and they thrive on that connection, that bond between you. So he's already got me in the snare at six years old. And predators are methodical and they're patient. You know, it's not like I'm walking to the school bus stop and some homeless guy grabs me, pulls me around a tree and does something to me, you know, Then I'd go running, screaming bloody murder to my parents. But it's somebody who I trusted and loved and respected. And that's where they, that's where they get you. Like 95% is people that you know. So he's already got me going. And from there everything was done out of the watchful eye of my parents. Like, it wasn't at the house, you know, it was down at the lake that was his trolling grounds for us young boys, because we all congregated down there at nine o'. Clock. Nine o' clock at nine years old, he's inviting me into his pickup truck to have a beer down at the lake. And then at the end it's, you can't let anybody know I gave you a beer. I'm a lieutenant in the police department, I could get in a lot of trouble. And in my mind I'm like, why would I want to ruin having a beer with the lieutenant? Like, this is great that he trusts me to, to have a beer with him, you know. He shows me pornography, which back then was Polaroid pictures. He told me his friend had bought an old farmhouse and there was a desk left behind in it. And he opened up one of the drawers and it was filled with porno pictures. Hop in my truck, I'll show you some. And I'm thinking, you know, it's going to be like a Playboy magazine or something. And he just starts showing me close ups of penises on these Polaroids. And he's laughing like a little kid. Aren't these funny? Aren't these a riot? And I'm like, you know, so? And I say to him, like, where's all the women? He's like, all those must have been in the other drawer. I'll grab those next time I'm over at my buddy's house. There was never any other pictures. He tells me back then on the back cover of every magazine was the Marlboro man, he's a fictional character, but he's quintessential cool. Smoking a cigarette, cowboy hat. And he tells me on it. He. Dennis always went out west. Every year, he took two, three trips out West. Jackson Hole, Grand Canyon, you name it, wherever out there. And he told me on one of these trips down at the lake as we were fishing, that he met the Marlboro Man. And the Marlboro man was the greatest guy in the world. And he shared something with me. He shared a secret secret with me. I'll share it with you, but you got to keep it a secret. I'm like, what's that? Then he goes, the Marlboro Man's gay. So, like, I don't know if the Marlboro man is gay or not, but he's like, I guess, trying to introduce and normalize male. On male sex, maybe, or that behavior.

Clark Fredericks (15:46)

He's in the Audubon Society. He's the guy in charge of the young cadets for New Jersey. If you, like, want to become a police officer, you become a young cadet. He's the one who decides who gets the scholarships or not. He was a trail angel on the Appalachian Trail, and he would take weary hikers home for a hot shower and a good meal and a nice bed to stay in. And just like, he was a member of Kiwanis Club in our area. Kiwanis Club's mission is for the betterment of children in your community. And he's using that as a hunting ground. He was an honorary member of Boys Town out in Nebraska. If you Google Boys Town, it's just loaded with abuse. And if you. If you look into him, every organization the police said were his hunting grounds. So, like, he's in all these organizations, but he's just hunting children in them. And then he would be on the. The Historical Society with all the little old ladies. You know, they got to have cover. And, like, so they. Everything is smoke and mirrors with them. Nothing is as it seems. So it progresses on to wrestling matches at 10 years old. I used to wrestle your brother, and I used to wrestle Jeff. Let's see how strong you are. And this is the first time I noticed that when he would wrestle, he would let me have the upper hand in the beginning. And then it was like a switch went off in him. And his eyes would dilate and get dark, and his. His whole face would change and he would get aggressive and he would throw me to the ground and get on top of me and start gyrating on top of me and telling me, squirm, try to get out, try to get out, try harder. Yelling at me, try harder. And he would be erect while he's doing this. I don't know how many wrestling matches we had. I don't know. It then progressed to him performing oral sex on me. And then it progressed. At age 12, he had this big, drawn out, elaborate scheme that he needed my help with. And it led to us being at his house. And it led to shots of black BlackBerry, brandy and beers and him raping me. And I cried. I screamed. And this lieutenant of the police, this member of the Historical Society, this boy Scout leader, this Kiwanis club member, this chaplain, whispered in my ear as I'm crying and screaming just another minute so he could finish. And what happened after that rape to me was worse than the rape. He had a coon dog, and coon dogs have a long, drawn out bark. And his dog was barking, hearing my cries and screams, and it wouldn't stop. And after he cleaned me up afterwards, he sat me down at his kitchen table. He brought his dog in by the collar, right next to me, and he said, I want to show you what will happen to you if you ever open up your mouth about what just occurred. And he started beating his dog and beating his dog and beating his dog. And I'm crying and I'm screaming and I'm pleading, please, Dennis, stop, stop, stop, stop. And he just kept beating and beating and beating and the. At my feet in a clump. And to me, that was worse than a rape because I felt responsible because of my cries and screams. And Duke only started howling because of my cries and screams. I can't believe that Dennis had this premeditated. Like, I know Duke's gonna cry, howl uncontrollably because Clark's gonna cry and scream, so. And then I'm gonna beat my dog to. Of him. But that's just to show you these monsters, they can hide in society and do great things so that nobody in the world will believe they are capable of. And. And people will defend them to the death. And people defended Dennis to the. And my life is now forever altered. I got scars internally for the rest of my life. Dennis I had my bike in the back of his pickup truck. He drove me back down to the dam area, told me again, this is our secret. Keep your mouth shut. I didn't want to see any kids at the dam area, so I ran across the ball field with my bike, threw it in the weeds where it was hidden, and I ran down the river and I just hugged myself and rocked myself along the river, letting the sound of the river try to calm me down and soothe me and like, wash me clean. And my mind, which thought it was helping me out, really did me a disservice. But my mind said, we are never going to talk about this. Hi, I'm Jim Clementi, retired FBI profiler.

Clark Fredericks (24:24)

Like, I can't remember, you know, and I didn't live with my abuser like a lot of people do. You know, I could go six months without seeing Dennis. I could go three months. I could go a month. But I am forever changed. And almost immediately after the rape, I start smoking weed. Like, I. I have zero coping skills. And like you, you know, it's easy when you become an adult or an adult hears this story and knows, you know, the. The trolls on the Internet, they know exactly how they would handle that as a kid if that happened to them, they would go running to their parents immediately or. Or toward. Back in the 70s, there's. There was no social workers, There was no agencies for treating childhood abuse. The only ones you went to were the cops. And he was law enforcement. He was a lieutenant. So I bury this down. I try to bury it down. It's like I got all these thoughts and images flooding my mind. So I start smoking weed just to try to, like, cloud my. My thought process. My father sits me down maybe a. A year after the rape 13, and says, I can't believe what I'm hearing about Dennis Pegg. He's like, he was taking. He worked. He was a lieutenant in the sheriff's department, and he worked at the county jail. Sheriff's officers either worked in jail or they're working out on the street doing, you know, criminal stuff. He worked at the jail. And my father goes. It's spreading all around Stillwater that Dennis has been taking home young inmates from the jail to mentor them. And he's raping them and molesting them when he gets them home. Like these kids, you know, like 18, 19, 20 drug addicts. Usually he would say, come back to my house. Let me. Let me mentor you and take care of you. And he would get them there, and in the middle of the night, he would pounce on them. And some didn't fight off the pouncing. Others ran out of his house. And in the middle of the night, are hitching through our little one horse town of Stillwater. And the residents are picking these kids up, and they're like, this guy just attacked me in the middle of the night. Like he. He told me he would give me a place to get my. My feet back under me. And in the middle of night, he Attacked me. And that spread around like wildfire.

Clark Fredericks (35:35)

Dennis Peck insisted, insisted on being the one to drive a family member to the Morgan and go in with them. Almost like a serial killer, like, proud of what they've done, you know? Would it surprise me in the least, like, if a bunch of bodies attributed to Dennis, like, showed up? No, not at all. But his body showed up in suicides, and police attribute, like a minimum of five suicides to him. I go through the rest of high school uninterested in sports. Uninterested in studies. I was a really smart kid and I could get away with doing like the bare minimum and get B's and C's. And that was fine by me. I got caught coming to school drunk. I got caught on class trips to the Jersey Shore drinking. I got pulled into the principal's office and threatened that I wouldn't graduate with the class if the principal at the prom had even one iota of thinking that I was drinking. A month after graduating, I get a drunk driving. I got into Northeastern University up in Boston, which, you know, back then it wasn't as tough to get in. I didn't have a straight A's. You need straight A's now to get into Northeastern. But that's where I went to school. And it was in the 80s and I tried cocaine for the first time. Absolutely instant love affair, like, because it took away. I'm filled with shame, I'm filled with insecurities, Just self loathing, self hatred and, and doing a line of coke. It made you outgoing and confident and strong and personable. And I met, I was sitting in the student L center, studying one day at a four person table, four chairs by myself, notebooks spread out, books spread out. And this cute bubbly girl plops down in the chair across from me, throws her legs up over, over the armrest and just goes into this torrent of words. And I'm just sitting there like, you know, mesmerized by her. Like, who is this, like intrigued and memorized, mesmerized. And she captured my heart in that moment. And for the next five, six years we dated off and on. Northeastern had a co op program where, you know, you work in, you go to school for six months, you work for six months in a job related to your major. So sometimes you're working in Boston, other times you're working outside of Boston. We would lose track of each other. There's no cell phone. Somehow we would always find our way back to each other. And one thing she, she used to say back then is, is that I, you know, soldiers come back from war and they got this thousand mile stare and I had that stare. And like we would be lying in bed and I would just stare off and she'd be like, hello, hello, like doing this. And then she'd like hit me. I'd be like, what? She's like, you just left me right then where'd you go? I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She's like, you were somewhere else in Your mind, where were you? And, like, you know, I can't. I can't tell her, you know, again, like, she thinks I'm hot, I'm sexy, I'm funny, I'm cute, I'm a party animal. I don't want to be the broken, wounded duck boyfriend who was abused. That's what my mind told me. Instead of, like, confronting this and her thinking how brave I am and strong I am for confronting it. That's what really happens when you confront it. Instead, your mind tells you people are going to think you're gay. People are going to look at you as damaged goods, as broken. It's the complete opposite how people look at. After we graduated, I was working in Pennsylvania, living in New Jersey. She was living in New York. I would go in, you know, like, for a romantic weekend and disappear for months, disappear for weeks, show back up, have sex again, go out drinking, partying, have a great weekend, disappear again. And I did that for like a year. And then she's like, what are we doing here, bro? Like, I thought we both wanted the same things. Like, I'm ready to settle down with you. Let's get our careers going. Let's start families. Let's just. Let's get it going. I was like, I can't do that. I'm like, I'm sorry. And she took it as, I didn't love her. But what it really was was like when you're harboring secrets and shame and pain. I could have sex. I could. I could tell her I loved her, but I couldn't be intimate.

Clark Fredericks (50:24)

Oh, my God. And it was so exhausting, I'm sure. Yeah, it was just exhausting. And it went on for months with the threats. And then they got the numbers from my father and number from my brother and telling them, your son's a dead man if you don't pay what he owes us. Your brother's a dead man if you don't pay what he owes us. And I had to warn all of them. I didn't know what to do. So I. I called Gamblers Anonymous. Like, I'm not a rat, I'm not a snitch. But, like, these guys started, like, with these phone calls, like, you know, you're a dead man if you don't pay us. And, like, I'm like, I don't know what to do. So I called 1-800-GAMBLER and I told the lady on the phone the amount I owed and who I owed it to. And she said, I'm going to have somebody call you back. She had the director for the whole state of New Jersey called me back. And that guy took me to a Meeting a day later where there's a bunch of ex mobsters and guys who bet with the mob. It's a hardcore meeting. And they drafted up my response that I had to be a man, that I had to set up a payment plan and that I wasn't going to go to the police and that I wasn't going to walk away from this. And that's what I told them on. They're like, they're going to scream, they're going to. To say, no way, you're, you're a dead man. But just stick to, stick to your guns. And that's what I did. And the last phone call I got from them was not any pressure for, for money. It was, you're a dead man. Click. That was it. You're a dead man. Click. A couple months later, I get a call from someone who says they're FBI agent, this is Special Agent blah, blah, blah. And the guy's like, I need to talk to you. I can't do it over the phone. I'm going to come to your. My brother and I had tire automotive centers. He had one, I had another. He's like, I'm going to be at your tire automotive center in Newton, New Jersey and I'll be there Thursday at 3 o' clock and I suggest you be there. Click. And he hung up. And I was like, what the hell could this be about? Like, like I, you know, I was riding with bikers and doing drugs and I'm like, the FBI is going to get involved with me buying a gram of coke. Like, really? Like. And I'm like, maybe they got the coke guy under surveillance. But I'm like, like, I go, that should be local, like. And I'm like, one of the, one of my biker buddies in trouble and they're going to try to get me to like flip on them. I, like, the mob thing wasn't even coming into mind.

Clark Fredericks (53:22)

Because I had been a couple months. Like, I'm still, like, I'm waiting, but for whatever reason, my mind didn't go there. The FBI guy shows up, he's clearly FBI, and he tells me they have a confidential informant inside one of the major crime families. He tells me which family. And the guy says, there's a hit put out on your life or a gambling debt. I was like, great, great. And, and he, they wanted me to wear a wire. And I'm like, I'm not wearing a wire. Like, absolutely not. You know, it was like the same thing. The Gamblers Anonymous people said, this, you, this is Your problem, and you're going to get yourself out of it. And I. That's what I said to. To the FBI guy, and he's like, well, that's very noble of you, but shit's gonna get real for you. I'm like, shit's already real, bro. I already know it. So it's just hell. Hellish time in my life I went through into my 40s, and I didn't know. Like, abuse survivors suffer from PTSD. And something triggered, like, this great depression in me. And I equate it to, like, a really, like, thick blanket that is soaking wet, and it's over you, and you just can't get out from under this thick, wet blanket. And I would have to talk to myself like a baby to get up in the mornings. Like, I'm just lying in bed, like, with this thick, heavy blanket over me. I'm like, come on, Clark, swing your legs off the bed. Come on, you can do it. Come on. And my first leg would swing, and then I'd swing the second one. I'm gonna be like, come on, Clark. Now push yourself up. You know, push up. You can stand up. And I push up off the mattress. All right, now walk to the bathroom. Come on, you can do it. And I walked to the bathroom. And that's how, like, every day was starting. And not knowing what to do and just feeling like crap. Instead of coffee in my travel mug to the shop, I started putting alcohol in it. You know, either wine or champagne or vodka, oj. And that's how I'm starting my days. And then I'm so down at work, so depressed, my mind says, you know, that cocaine that made us feel so great, you know, we could just do little bits of that throughout our day to give us energy and make us feel great again. And I'm like, yeah, I'm telling myself, yeah, that's a great idea. So I start doing, you know, just bumps of coke throughout the day. And then I gotta moderate myself so I don't get too jittery from the coke. So I gotta take Xanax. And so that's how I start. Start getting through my days. And then I tweaked my back, and I went and saw a doctor, and he prescribed me Vicodin. It's the first time I ever had a pain pill. And that was like an instant love affair as well. Like, I felt like I was 17 again and could just work like a maniac and work right through the pain. And I went through these 30 pills he gave me, like, you know pretty quick and called them back up, told them how great they worked. And he's like, you went through those way too fast. I'll give you 10 more, and that's it. And that just wasn't acceptable to me. So I became like a squirrel gathering nuts for the next few years, finding pain pills, and thus started a pain pill addiction. And I could have 500 pain pills in my. My. My drawer in my room and be in panic because, like, again, just like, the gambling picks up pace and the sleeping with women picked up pace, the pills pick up pace. Like, taking three pills doesn't do a thing anymore. You know, I'm taking, depending on what I have. If I have an Oxycontin 80 or I have a yellow perk 10, I'm taking 12 to 24 pills a day. And like I said, I could be in a complete panic with 500 pills and something from the abuse and having your boundaries stolen from you. Boundaries were meaningless to me in my own life. Now, like, you know, you can say, like, I am comfortable living within these parameters of my life, and that's how I'm going to live. I would say that too, but then I blow right through those parameters. And one thing I swore I would never, ever do is heroin. Like, that's. That's skid roast stuff, and that's Kensington Avenue stuff, and that's New York City stuff. That's not suburbs of Stillwater, New Jersey stuff. And yet when pain pills ran out and I went to somebody and they said, dude, like, stop thinking you're better than me because you're doing pharmaceutical heroin, and I'm doing actual Heroin. These are $5 a packet. It's the same thing you're doing. Stop fooling yourself. And they're a lot cheaper. I was like, you got a point. What's it matter? Like, what's it matter? And it's just like with the mob. I just got to the point, like, whatever. Like, I didn't want to die, but I just didn't care. And it's a. It's a scary point to be in life. It's just like, whatever. What's it matter? Like, if they kill me? I've already had the worst done to me. You're gonna kill me, all right, so be it. You gonna do heroin? Maybe die of an overdose? So be it. And. And. And that's how that got started. And I'm in. Up by us, we have a chain of gas station delis called quick check. And I'm in a quick Check, getting a Coffee after work one day, and the door opens up as I'm making my coffee, and in walks Dennis. Peggy. Now, I have seen. It's been 30 years. I'm 45 years old at this point. It's been 30 plus years since, like, the rape. But I've seen them around town.

Clark Fredericks (60:03)

You know, like, I came home from college one time and. And picked up my buddies, and we went out to a bar, and they're. All of a sudden, I got a hand on my shoulder. Hey, pal, how you doing? And I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. And, like, I chug my beer and I go to my friends, like, we're out of here. They're like, we just got here. Like, I took two sips out of my beer. I'm like, look, I'm driving. You can either stay or you're going with me. But I don't want to be like, there's no women here. Like, we gotta go find where the women are. And they're like, all right, whatever. Let's go. So they chug their beers and they follow me up. Know. But it's been at least 10 years since I've seen him. And he sees me, and he's instantly like, clark, hey. I'm like, oh, my God. And I know he's going to come over and, like, hug me or shake my hand or. Or something. And what was different this time from all the other times I had seen him is that he had a young boy about the age he raped me at by his side. And that young boy called him the same nickname he used to make me call him when I was that age. And I heard that nickname, and I saw that boy, and it just ripped open that box I had put inside me 30 years ago. And I left all my stuff on the coffee counter, and I ran out of there. He was, like, coming towards me, and I ran out of there, and we. Shoulder bump. He's like, where are you going? Where are you going? And I hopped in my truck and I sped out of that parking lot, and I cursed, and I punched my steering wheel and I spit on my passenger seat. And my life fell apart. That day. That was it. I could no longer. I equated getting out of bed in those mornings and going to work, like, climbing Mount Everest, like, every morning, Dev, you gotta wake up and climb Mount Everest. After seeing him and seeing that boy, I couldn't climb Mount Everest ever anymore. And I got in an argument with my brother, and I Walked out. And I never looked back on the tire business. And now I got free time, which is extremely bad.

Clark Fredericks (64:14)

I'll get. Okay. What. What Dennis Pegg did. His mother worked the graveyard shift. He would go in there and sit at the counter, nobody else in the Dunkin Donuts and tell her he was going to either kill her or kill her son if they didn't pull the charges. And he would do this day after day after day. And eventually they pulled the charges. So months go by where I can't stop thinking about this young boy. Like, is he getting his hair tussled? Is he sitting in Dennis's truck? And Dennis is patting his knee and laughing? Is he moved the padding of the knee up to the padding of the thigh? Is he showing him polaroids? Is he giving him a beer? Is he doing wrestling matches? Has he raped them? That's all I could think about. And I went out that day after seeing Sandusky. I Had to get out of my house. A friend had wanted to go to lunch. I was avoiding everybody at this stage. I was just doing drugs around the clock, content to kill myself with drugs and alcohol. I would have died of a drug overdose. And everybody would have been like, what the hell happened to Clark? He should have had life by the balls. And yet he just flushed it all away for drugs and alcohol. Why? And I went out with my friend. I would tell him, I gotta go make a phone call and go to my truck and do bumps of coke. And I stopped on the way home to meet my friend at this Italian restaurant that I frequented, like, constantly. And I had gotten burned on a business deal a little while earlier, years earlier. And the guy who burned me, I hadn't seen since the. The deal went sour. And he's in that restaurant that night having dinner with his family. And I went up to him and I said, joe, when are you gonna make good on that money you owe me, bro? And he's like, get the fuck away from me. I'm having dinner with my family. How dare you come up to me? And I'm like, out of respect for your family, I'll walk away. But this isn't over between us. You're paying. Paying me, bro. He's like, fuck you. Get out of here. Like, he was. He was a biker. He was in a biker gang. He thought he was real tough. He didn't scare me in the least. So I go home to meet my friend who's dropping off all the equipment he's going to start the next day, the power washing equipment. And. And I tell him this story of seeing this guy. He knew the story, you know, how I got burned. And I told him about seeing this guy, and he's like, that guy's got to be number one on your hit list. And Dev, for the first time in third, almost 33 years before I could stop my mouth from, like, speaking the words. I had no control over myself. I wasn't coherent enough, and I wasn't mindful enough, and I wasn't present enough. I said, actually, he's number two. The piece of shit who raped me as a kid is number one. And there it's out for the first time. And, like, time stopped. It stood still. And the air was thick between my friend and I. And he's looking at me. He's like, are you for real? And I'm like, yeah, I'm for real. And he starts asking me who he is, where does he live? I'm like, I assume he still lives, you know, the house was literally two miles away. It wasn't even a five minute drive. And I'm like, you know what? It's time to go confront this piece of garbage. I'm like, let's go. Let's go see him. And it was less than 15 minutes from me uttering those words to us hopping in my buddy's van to go drive to his house. He's got a long driveway. We drive halfway up the driveway. We stop, get up, we run up the driveway. It's a June 12th. It's a warm summer day. His screen door is shut, but his front door is open. And I look in, and there he is sitting there watching tv. And it was just like watching the devil in his lair sitting there. And the devil isn't a guy with horns coming out and a long tail and a pitchfork. The devil is someone who sits on the historical society with the little old ladies and tells jokes and who volunteers for Kiwanis Club and the Boy Scouts and the Appalachian Trail and puts on a big smile and everybody loves them. And he's raping little boys. That's the devil and that's who he was. And I felt like my body get stiff, like freezing. Like when he would touch me, I would freeze. And I felt that coming on me, this paralysis. And my heart's thumping and my mind is just swirling and the sweat is pouring out of my palms and I'm palpitating. And before I just like crumble into a ball in his driveway, I march up to his front door and I rip it open. And I had brought a knife with me. I brought. He was the firearms instructor for two counties. Every law enforcement officer has to get recertified every year, and they had to go to him to get recertified. This guy was a complete gun nut. This guy has been raping children for 45 years. This guy. This was basically a suicide mission I went on. This guy should have a gun holstered, taped to his couch, under each table, on the bathroom wall in his bedroom. And I rip open his front door. And there I am, a rape victim of his, standing there 9:30 at night. And what he said to me determined all the next events. He casually looks over his shoulder, puts his arm up and goes, hey, how are you? I'm in his doorway holding a knife. 9:30 at night. You raped me as a child. And you just carefree, dismiss me. Hey, how are you? And people reach out to me all the time, and they want to confront their abuser, not like a violent comfort. They want to. They want to confront her. And I say, no, don't do it. You're never going to get the response you're looking for. They can never let their guard down. Do you think they're going to say, I'm sorry? Right, I apologize, sick. But in my mind I'm like, and you expect a normal response out of somebody who's abnormal, and it doesn't work. Like, had he gotten down on his hands and knees, Clark, I always thought you or someone else might come back. I need help, bro. I am sick. I know I'm sick. I apologize. I wronged you, I hurt you, I hurt other people. Please have mercy on me. Please help me to get help. Like, that's what you'd want to hear, but you're not going to hear that. Instead it's, hey, how are you? Like, I'm an ant. Like, I'm nothing. Like, you didn't destroy my life. And I told you earlier how we have two faces. The face we show the world and the face behind closed doors. No one has ever seen my face behind closed doors, but Dennis is going to see it right now. It's a face of pain and anger and hurt and shame and violence and rage. And I go, hey, how am I, motherfucker? Let me show you how the fuck I am. And I race across his room and a violent, ugly battle begins. I'm slashing at him, he's punching me, and at one point, he connects squarely to my jaw. And I started falling backwards and I grabbed his shirt with my left hand and I screamed, you motherfucker. And I took the knife and I brought it down and I put it right through my hand. It came out and poked into him and it severed all the ligaments and tendons. And now I'm gushing blood. And the fight continued on. And I mean, you're talking maybe two, three minutes, and he slipped in blood, fell down, and he was up against the wall. And I kneeled down in front of him, I got eye level with him and I said, it's not so fun raping little boys now, is it, Dennis? And I slit his throne. And I told my buddy who was standing in the doorway, like, wide eyed, I'm like, go down and get your van and bring it up here. And I just wanted to be alone for a minute. And I haven't been back to that house since he raped me. And I walked over to the bedroom he raped me in. There's bloody footprints there that walk over to that bedroom, stop at the doorway And I spit on his bed. And I did what almost every single abuse victim has at one point thought of doing. Like, what is done to you is so horrific and violent and extreme that your mind can only think of revenge to even the score. I stopped a predator from ever harming another child, and that's a good thing. But in no way whatsoever did anything for healing. Like, you don't heal from the trauma of abuse by take. By adding in the trauma of murder, right? Like, you don't do it. So many people are like, come on, man. You had to feel good after that. And I'm like, have you ever killed anybody? It's not pleasant, right? Like, everybody, every mother, father, like, if that ever happened to my kid, I'd go kill him. Well, how many millions of kids are abused every year? And there's not millions of deaths? So, no, you won't. So don't throw that casually out there. You won't do it because you're going to flush your life away and you're going to end up in prison. If you're an abuse victim and you do what I did, you're going to have to end up in prison with all that trauma with you, and now you're in absolute hell. Which prison is. And that's where I ended up. So, no, don't do it. Don't follow in my footsteps. Get that thought out of your head and, and start healing, Start talking about it. Get therapy, get clean from drugs and alcohol. Get faith exercise, like, get healthy daily habits. And don't give the valuable real estate in your mind to your abuser. I let Dennis peg inside here for decades. You can't do that. You can't sit on your couch and ruminate over and over in spin cycle for hours at a time. What happened to you?

Clark Fredericks (81:12)

So they called in a well being check and Dennis was dead. And the cops surround my house. And when I'm lying in bed, I got up, poured a glass of wine, and I look out my window and there's cops everywhere. Like, my street is lined with a dozen plus cop cars. They're behind trees, they're behind rock walls, they're behind the shed out back. They're everywhere. I pound that glass of wine and like, I mean the feeling of like it's over. Like, it's just. Like I said, there's so many times I've been broken in my life. And I poured another glass of wine and out of a loudspeaker, I hear Mr. Fredericks come out of your house with your hands up. And I chugged that glass of wine. And I grew up as in the Episcopal church, as an altar boy. And at age 12 back then they, the old minister, you know, was like, if, if you do good, good things will happen to you. If you step out of line, you incur God's wrath. And at 12 years old, getting raped by an animal, like, I couldn't understand how I could have done something so heinous to incur God's wrath. And I put a wall up between God and me back then. And I went through this. God, to me, became a Lucky's rabbit's foot. Foot, Lucky rabbit's foot. Like, I would get into risky drug deals and risky behavior and drive and high and be like, you owe me, bro. You better get me through this. That was my relationship. God, you owe me. And now as I'm walking to my front door, I said to God, God, I'm done with life. Like, I forfeit the rest of it. Please let one of these cops shoot me when I step out on my front porch. And I stepped out and I put my hands out and I put my head back and nothing happened. I was waiting for that crack of a gun just to be like, ah, it's over. Instead, I was spreading yield on my front lawn, handcuffed and taken away to the police barracks. At the police barracks, something amazing happened. The lieutenant of the state police who worked the crime scene came into my holding cell and said, I want to apologize to you. I go, what do you want to apologize to me for? And he's like, I've known about Dennis Pegg for a long time. I've heard rumors about him. But I can't arrest somebody for rumors. Like, people think he's gay. Are they just making up stuff about young boys because he might be gay? Like, I don't have victims, and I don't have evidence. I just hear rumors. And I apologized that I never stopped him. And he left. And I felt like, oh, my God. That was pretty nice. And then I just got, like, fuming. Like, even the state police know about this guy, right? And yet I got to be the one to put an end to him.

Clark Fredericks (86:26)

That same lieutenant comes back into my holding cell, and he's like, look, man, I got your blood all over the crime scene, you got a severe injury. He's like, this isn't a whodunit. He goes, but it doesn't mean your life is over. He's like, my detectives are waiting in another room with the prosecutor's detectives to interrogate you. If you go into that room and open your mouth, you could ruin the rest of your life. I'm telling you to go in there, request a lawyer and exercise your fifth amendment rights and keep your mouth shut. That's it. Anything they ask, you say, I request my lawyer. And I'm like, but I don't have a lawyer. And he goes, I'm going to take care of that for you. And I didn't know after that, but he left that room and on his cell phone, he called the most high profile lawyer in our county, George Daggett, and said, george, I need you to fax over a retainer immediately. Like, asap. And he goes, what's the name? And what he do? He goes, clark Fredericks murder. George goes, okay, then. And within two minutes, there was a fax that he was representing me and Howie Ryan went into the interrogation room, said, this just came for Clark Fredericks. And the prosecutors, detectives started screaming at Howie how he's like, look, man, I didn't do anything other than tell this guy to exercise his fifth amendment rights. And how he's like, that's the first time in my 27 year law enforcement history that I told especially someone for murder to keep their mouth shut. He goes, but I just went back in. He goes, I went back in that holding cell and I took a look at you, and I could tell you, you mailed it in. You, you were done. You gave up. And I didn't want you to give up. I didn't want your life to be over. I. I went to, they took me from there to the hospital to get emergency hand surgery. You know, like, does any of this sound fun? Like, like for people that want to go do what I did, does any of this sound even remotely, like, enjoyable?

Clark Fredericks (93:07)

And the first time that door opened after I woke up the next day, I thought, here it goes. And a guy comes in and he's like, hey, man, I just want to tell you, keep your mouth shut. Don't talk to anybody in here. He's like, let things play out. I'm like, okay. And he left. Like, they have to do cell checks. So they come in there, even though the camera's on me, they still have to check the cell. And next person comes in on the next shift and he's like, hey, man, I'm hearing a lot of stuff about this dude. I didn't know him, I didn't work with him. But just let it all play out. Just try to stay calm and just don't talk to anybody. And a couple days later, the son in law of a girl I had dated came in and he's like, my man, how are you? I was like, dude, pretty shitty, bro. He's like, oh, I understand. He's like, do you have any idea what's going on in the community? I'm like, do they view me as a monster? He's like, hell no. Dennis Pegg was the monster. Everybody wants to know why he was still walking the streets. He goes. He goes, people have started a free Clark campaign. He Goes, there's bumper stickers everywhere. Free Clark shirts, hat. He goes, everybody in the community is rallying behind you. I was like, really? He's like, yeah. And like, I couldn't, like, understand the full scope of that, but at a, at a hearing, you know, you're constantly having hearings, and in court, before the judge, the prosecutor goes, your honor, I think I may have a hard time finding an impartial jury because every morning driving to work, all I see is Free Clark stickers on vehicles. He's like, I don't know how I'm going to find an impartial jury. And I'm like, he's worried about finding an impartial jury. Like, for real, I'm. I'm being held in the jail where this guy worked. Yeah, I was in that suicide cell for four weeks because they were, they, they didn't want something happening on their watch. And, like, it would look really, really iffy. And then I had a cast on my hand, and they wouldn't let me into general population, but they put me into an isolation cell by myself. So then I was in there for another three weeks and then finally released the general population. And I was trying in those first two months to pray. And every time I would close my eyes, I'd either see images of the rape, other sexual acts, I would see the murder, and I'd have to just shake my head and abandon attempts at prayer. But when I. When I got into general population, I saw my mother for a visit. And my mother, as she waited in line outside, saw her minister, came out of the jail he'd been in to see somebody's child. And he went up to her, gave her a hug, and then he grabbed her by the shoulders and he goes, joan, I want you and your son to pray on the number five, as in a five year sentence. And she came in and she started telling me this, and I'm just like, I'm like, mom, I'm like, you got to pick a number that's more realistic. A 5 is not going to happen. You know, like, in my head, I'm like, man, if I could get a 20, that'd be great, right?

Clark Fredericks (96:50)

Zero. You know, like, I killed a law enforcement officer and I'm in the jail where he worked. Like, it is done. Like, you want to talk about people, talk about how bad their life is. I mean, does it get much worse than that? Like, I am at the bottom. I told you I was broken. It doesn't mean you're finished up. So for everybody Else, let this just be a cautionary tale, but let it inspire you that anything's possible, right? So I knew I was putting my mother through absolute hell. So I. So I'm like, all right, Mom, I'll pray. I'll pray on a number five. But I couldn't pray. You know, I couldn't want to tell her that. So I signed up for Bible study. And it. You know, it takes two weeks to get approved. And, you know, they take two elevators of us down to Bible study, and I maneuver my way to the back of the room, and everybody's going up to this guy, and he's shaking their hands. He's hugging him. He's got a broad smile on. I'm just like, you phony baloney like you. Can you wag my. Your finger at me, boy? And I'll. I'll tell the guards, get me out of here immediately. And I'm like. I'm, like, ready to go up there for a confrontation with the dude. Like, I got myself so amped up, like, watching everybody just. I'm fuming, like. And I go up, and he puts me in a hug, and I'm stiff as a board. And he whispers in my ear, I've been praying for you, and my congregation's been praying for you. The last time somebody whispered in my ear, it was just one more minute. And now this guy whispers, I've been praying for you. I pulled away from him. I go, really? I go, do you know who I am and what I'm here for? He goes, I read the papers. He goes, I know. I was like, all right, thank you. And we went in to Bible study. Instead of him opening up the Bible and reading a verse, he started talking about God's free will. And he's like, God is not a sovereign God in charge of every aspect of every person's being. We want God to be the superhero who saves the plane from crashing or the train from derailing or the rape from happening or the child from getting molested. God would just be a superhero then. And he's like, God is not a sovereign God in charge of every aspect of your life. God's given us free will. And you can use your free will for good or for evil, and the person next to you can use it for good or for evil and something. You could be at a vulnerable state, and a person using their free will for evil could do something bad to you. And that's the first time I ever heard the concept of free will, to be honest with you. And that allowed all that anger and rage towards God to dissipate. And that night, I went up to my cell and I was able to pray when I went to bed. And boom. And I got books sent to me from all over the country. Like, almost every cell had my books in it, because you could only have six books. My locker had six books. Your personal locker. My roommate, you know, So I had 12 books in my room, you know, my roommate, like, I'm like, hey, these are your six.

Clark Fredericks (100:17)

And then other cells had my books. And, you know, at one time, I'm in my cell, and I just called out to God, I said, God, you got to help me heal myself or kill myself, because I just can't go on feeling like this, you know, just. Every day was just. Just feeling so down and broken and depressed and empty. And I. I heard, like, an internal voice say, pick up a book and start reading. Reading. And I picked up the littlest book that somebody had sent me. It was Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning from Holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl. And I read that. There were so many great lines in there, but one line, like, flipped the switch in me. And to paraphrase, it was, when you are faced with a situation you cannot change, you are challenged to change yourself. And I'm like, wow. I'm like, all right, the situation I'm in ain't gonna change. Like, I could potentially do life. I was charged with first degree murder, 30 to life, by the New Jersey Prosecutors Association. And I want people to hear that New Jersey Prosecutors association charged me with life, because that's going to come back at the end of the story. And I started. I read that book, and it ignited something in me. I'm like, all right, I'm going to change. And then I read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle on mindfulness. I was riding with bikers, doing cocoa in the strip bars. If you told me, like, clark, there's going to be a book on mindfulness that's going to change your life in a few years from now, I'd be like, get out of here with that garbage. Mindfulness. And like. Like so much of that book spoke to me. And. And then I just, like, I dove into reading, and I had to read close to 500 books while I was locked up. And I got cleared. They. They the jail to their benefit. They brought in a physical therapist to work with me with my hand that, like, this didn't get attached, but they got movement back in my hand. And after A year. He's like, you're cleared to, to start working out and using your hand. And I tried to do push ups and I could get two push ups. That was it. That first year I was so down, I took it out on commissary food, buying garbage off a commissary, sitting in my, my bunk and reading books and just eating crap. I put on £60 that first year. Every year you're locked up, they take you down in the jail for a mini physical and then they weigh you. And the nurses were like, holy hell, Clark.

Clark Fredericks (108:45)

Like, you know, do your 30 days, do the sober house, do a meeting every day. Like, it takes a while to rewire your brain. So in year three, it just, it was like a revelation. Like, there's no way I can ever go back to that. We go to court. There's no such thing as a speedy trial when there's a murder case. So at the three year mark, just before the three year mark, we, we hired a psychologist. We hired her at year two, but it took a year because she was writing a book to like draft her whole report on me. But it was a psychological report. And in that report is the abuse, is the murder, is drugs and alcohol. It's my whole story. And you don't go to court like on tv and it's a. Who done it? And they don't know anything. The prosecutor has, has to get all of this info. So he got this report, and at the. It was June 15th, I got, I got arrested June 13th. So June 15th we go to court and they offered me a plea deal to second degree manslaughter, which carries 5 to 10. And I first agree was 30 to life, and now I'm down to 5 and 10. And my lawyer said, I'll do whatever you want. Like you want to. He presented with this to me weeks in advance before that court date. He's like, you want to go to trial, we'll go to trial. He's like, you know, I think, I think we got a valid case. He goes, but just think, if we go to trial and you lose, you're doing 30 life. He goes, your mother's in her 80s, you'll never see her again. He goes, if you take this plea deal, you've already got three years in. He goes, and you know, you could be out in a couple years. So it was just too risky to go to trial. So when on June 15th. When we went to court, that's where I read this 15 minute statement where I'm completely broken and I accepted the plea deal. So now I still have to go back for sentencing. And in that, in that period, and why that was so tough is when I read that statement is because the courtroom was filled with my family and friends. There was a hundred people outside the court. There was people out in the steps. Hundreds of people showed up. And I had. In my statement, I had to out my brother, my older brother, as one of Peg's victims. And I had to talk about Jeff's suicide. And that was really tough to talk about those things and to know my brother's right over my shoulder and he hasn't addressed his page pain yet.

Clark Fredericks (113:17)

And when my lawyer and the prosecutor met with the judge to tell him we've arrived at a plea deal, the judge wasn't like a big fan. And he said to them both, you can expect Fredericks to do every day of those 10 years. And then sometime from that meeting to when I went for my sentencing, whether he looked into the case more, whether he talked to people, whatever happened in court, he apologizes to me. He says he's tempted to liberate me right now. And then he says, I'm going to give you the minimum that I'm allowed to give you five years. And I apologize for having to send you to prison for a single day. So something shifted in him in those couple months to give me the minimum. And I Heard five years. And that thing I scoffed at my mother, at. My mother said, I believe in God and I believe in miracles, and you better start believing too. And I did. And I had prayed ever since I had that, that Bible study class. And I put into meditation A5. And I repeated a mantra all day long with a five in it. I just got the five that I thought was impossible. I looked over my shoulder at my mother and she's like, gave me a wink and a nod, and I stood up and I got a standing ovation from. From the audience. And the judge didn't freak out and bang his gavel. He let it go on. And I got sent off. I had to go do. I did three and a half years in the county jail. Had to go do a year at Northern State Prison in Newark, New Jersey. And my very first day there, a therapist came to my cell and said, I followed your case on the news. I can't believe you just arrived here. Will you start therapist therapy with me? And I was like, absolutely. So I had to go to prison to get therapy for the first time in my life. She said, in my second one on one with her, I run a group therapy class for childhood trauma. Not necessarily molestation, but childhood trauma. And will you join that? And I said, yeah. And that was the single most greatest thing for healing I could have done. I was in there with blood Gang members, Latin King gang members, Muslims, blacks, whites, every. Every creed, every religion. And we all had, you know, horrific childhoods, and we would share it and we would cry in front of each other. You can't cry in prison. But in that class, we all took an oath that nothing would leave safe space. Yeah. If anybody shared anything, they would be immediately booted out. So I did therapy, I did group therapy, I did Bible study, I did church. I've never. You want to see a lively church? I'd never been to a church service like this. You get guys that are locked up 23 hours a day for seven days a week, and they're out for two and a half hours at a church service. They let loose.

Clark Fredericks (120:45)

From there I had. When you write a book, half the battle is getting a literary agent and then the other half is getting a publishing deal. If you want to go to traditional route, everybody has to can self publish. It's pretty easy nowadays. But I wanted to go to traditional route. When I got out, I, I asked the minister at my mother's church who had told her, pray on the number five. I went into a private meeting with him and he's like, how can I help you? What can I do for you? I go, I got a manuscript. I think it's pretty good, but I don't know anybody in the literary world. Can you help me out? He goes, yeah, one of the parishioners has written several books and I'll hook you up with him. Hooked me up in the sky. And the guy hooked me up with his literary agent and signed me up right away. And this guy, we hired a person to draft our first book proposal. And the guy from church paid the $5,000 out of his pocket. I said, I said, dude, I don't know when I'm gonna have money. He goes, I'm not looking for you to pay me back. He's like, I love your story. And he goes, so he paid it out of his pocket. That first book proposal didn't go anywhere. I wrote another book proposal that didn't go anywhere. On the third book proposal, I got a publishing deal from Simon and Schuster. They made an offer, gave me a nice advance and signed me to a publishing deal. I also did a documentary with the producer of Dateline NBC and they, they had a series of eight different stories and this aired on their Oxygen network. And from doing that documentary with them, I got on the Tamron hall daytime talk show and from doing. And I was on the Tamron hall show with Gabrielle Bernstein. And she's like this, you know, motivational, nine time best selling author. When I was locked up, I was watching Oprah's Super Soul Sunday show and she was on that and I just loved her. And now here I am on Tamron hall with her. I was just like, wow, this is full circle. It's crazy. And we both came out of the bathrooms at the same time. And there's like an alcove there. And I said, hey, hey, Gabrielle. I'm Clark Fredericks. I'm, you know, on the show with you today. And she's like, oh my God. And she puts me into this hug and now I get another whisper in my ear. She's like, you're my hero. And I'm like, why am I your hero? She goes, you don't know. I've been abused also. I'm like, no. She's like, yeah. She goes, it didn't, I didn't come out with it till, till in my, you know, I think late 30s, she finally confronted it. And I would end up asking her to write a blurb on the back of my book. And she said, absolutely. Just so. So. Nine time bestselling author Gabrielle Bernstein writes for my cover.

Clark Fredericks (125:13)

And my agent, when it was done, worked on getting a publishing deal. And then that's when we got our publishing deal. My brother, when I got out of prison, I was living at my mother's with my brother. My brother self destructed. When I got locked up, he lost his tire business. He had a 33 acre farm that he lost. He lost his marriage. His kids weren't talking to him. He just spiraled downward and downward and downward. And he was completely shattered at the house, drinking every day. And a couple years ago, in February, three years ago February, I came home and I found him on our kitchen floor dead. And I gave him mouth to mouth and chest compressions until the EMTs arrived. And then they worked on him for an hour and he was already gone. It was just so heartbreaking because, like, I've literally, and I say this humbly, I have inspired people around the world and given them tips to heal and grow. And I couldn't reach my brother. He didn't want to hear a thing from his younger brother, the healing guru, like, didn't want to hear it and just Drank himself to death and just. We had screaming matches, we had crying matches. When I couldn't talk to him, I would write him letters and leave it at his place mat on the table where he sat and couldn't get through to just a devastating blow. And I didn't want. I wanted to try to prevent as many other families as going through what we were going through. So I started a podcast too. Free like me. People come on, speak their truth and leave free like me. And then I started online coaching. Right now, one of the people I coach is a woman in the Middle East, a Muslim woman here. I'm a born again Christian white older guy in the United States, and she's a younger Muslim woman over in the Middle East. And she saw one of my podcasts and I actually had her do my show. We pixelated her face and she just. She called me up a few months ago and, like, she needs to talk about it, but it's forbidden to talk about over there. It's. It's. The family doesn't want to talk about it. The mother literally, like, puts her hands over her ears and tells her to stop. The sister screams at her. Everybody's been abused. Do you think you're any different than any of us? I don't want to hear about it. Stop, stop, stop. And she needs to out. She needs an outlet. She needs to get this, you know, it's killing her. And so I'm her outlet. You know, that's just one of the people. One of. One of the. Another one of the guys I coached, he was abused by the sheriff, the actual sheriff, the head guy in the county next to me. And he sued the county. And his lawyer told me that he goes, you don't know what you've done for this guy. He goes, we would go to court and he would literally get under the benches in the fetal position and tell me, I can't do this. I beg of you, don't make me. Don't make me do this. Let's just stop this. He's like, this guy was so broken. I've never seen it. And yet working with me, and I'm not, and I don't have magic pixie desk dust, but I get people, I get them to normalize it, to not be this big taboo monster that they can't talk about. Like, and you just got to sit with people in the mud. Like, sometimes when some. If somebody's going to break their silence, they should paraphrase it to whoever they're going to tell for the first time. Look, I got to tell you, Dev, I got to tell you something. You and I are close, and I'm going to trust you with something. And, Dev, I don't want you to fix me. I'm not asking you to have the magical answers for me. I just want you to listen to me for a second. Can you do that? Don't. Don't feel you got to fix me. And then tell them, but tell people. They don't have people instantly, like, get squirrely, think, oh, my God, I don't know how to deal with this. I gotta. Yeah, what do I say? I gotta fix this part. When you're gonna break your silence, just paraphrase it to that. That way to people. Just sit in the mud with me. Sit in the sandbox, sit across from me and just listen.

Clark Fredericks (134:57)

And it took her. Took her like, you know, maybe a month to finally reach out. And we. We spoke and I gave her some tips, and then we spoke again and I gave her some tips. And she was all over the place in her life. And I just. I've sent her a message here or there thinking of you, and I just reached out to her this past week, and she's like, oh, I just. You could just tell the wording of the message. She's like, I quit drinking. I'm sober. I've got a new therapist. She's getting my trauma out. Things are so much better. And I just love that you're still reaching out and thinking of me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'll keep you aware of what's going on. So From a crying, bawling mess. Couldn't talk to. That message was just like, yes. Yeah, yeah. So I got all those things going on from. From. From where I was. And then I forgot one thing. One thing. After I got that law passed, not. And I don't mean to say after I got the law passed, after all of us got the law passed, I now, like, that took up a lot of time. Plus, I was working insane hours at the restaurant. And I'm driving home one night, and I'm like, you know, it was a really long shift, really hot summer day, or. Or. Or it was like, just. It's hot in the kitchen. It wasn't a summer day. But I'm like, I think I'm ready for love. I'm like, I think. I think I could do it now. But for 30 years, Lisa from college has been inside that skull, just scratching, scratching, scratching. Back then, with no cell phone, she used to write me love letters. And I held on to all of them for those 30 years. And whenever I would feel like her fading from my memory or feeling distant, I would get out her letters and read them and feel like that bond, like, instantly connected again. And I would tell my mother that I really screwed up by letting her get away. And I had so many times in my mind where I was gonna ride in on my horse and scoop her up and. And save her. And then I'd think, but you got the mob that wants to kill you. Like, you can't bring her into this. I'm going to ride on my white horse as the night in shining armor, scoop her up. But you're doing heroin and abuse and drugs around the clock. You can't bring her into this. And I would talk myself out of it. And I said, driving home that night, it's not fair to get into a relationship with someone when I'm still connected to Lisa. I've got to reach out to Lisa. I have to apologize to her so I can move on. And I drafted a message, and this love story is on this book, too, you know, And I erased it. And then I'm like. I rewrote it, and my thumb was hovering over the send button, and I'm like. And I'm thinking to myself, is it better to keep this fantasy alive of this amazing connection, amazing love that we had? Because I go, if I send this thing. And she's like, are you freaking Nuts, bro. It's been 30 years. Kick rocks, kid. Like, get over it already. Like this. That whole fantasy will get blown to smithereens. And I'm like, is it better to not send it and just keep it alive in my head? And then I'm like, what are you, a sissy? You gotta send it, bro. So I tell your people, hit that send button. Take the chance. Go out on that date. Start your diet. Do those first two push ups. You gotta. Then I sent it, and it took 24 hours for me to get a response. And she replied. And then I replied. And she replied. And I replied. And she replied. And I replied. She replied. And two weeks later, I said, I think we should get a cup of coffee. She lived in New York. I lived in New Jersey. We met at the midway. Midway point. And by the end of that coffee date, it was back on. And we had some tough times early on. Like, she had to take a leap of faith.