B (3:16)

So his goal was to shoot her in the temple and make it look like she committed suicide.

A (3:19)

Yes, which she had planned, you know, for six months. He was going to psychiatrist, telling, like, friends everything. And she wasn't suicidal, like, at all, according to her side of the story. So fast forward, you know, she really doesn't get justice. I mean, it's in the papers and everything how nobody feels that there was justice. Because he then final admits and says she was trying to shoot herself and he was grabbing the gun, so they were fighting over it and she shot herself kind of thing. But then he ended up doing six months in prison answering phones because he was a police officer. And this is going back to 1978. So, you know, they're really sad to say. And, I mean, I know it still happens even sometimes now with, you know, the police, that.

B (4:04)

Right.

A (4:04)

It's just crazy.

B (4:05)

It's not treated the same.

A (4:05)

Yeah, yeah. So that's like the. The start of it. And I think the start of my mom and her own trauma and her own, you know, she was adopted and never really felt loved. And then she has this guy, and then he freaking tries to kill her, shoots her. And, you know, we find out even later that I guess his first wife, he supposedly had pushed down the stairs and she was crippled for life. Jeez. I know. So this is like going. You know, it was so long ago, 1978. And, you know, there's not social media. There's not all these things. Nobody really knows about things that are going on. But my mom, after all that happened, I mean, she was like a warrior, I guess she fought through it all and, you know, she still had me. And after all this happened, she was a secretary. And then she ends up getting a bartending job. I'm like two or whatever, gets a bartending job and decides to marry the town drunk. The guy who is such a blast, so fun, everything like that. You know, you don't see Any of his behaviors during the. During this time she marries him, he becomes my stepdad. When I was only like, two and a half. I think she was, like, very traumatized and, like, felt lonely and, you know. Yeah. Scared everything. And I try not to, like, you know, looking back, I try not to, like, blame her because, you know, trauma. Trauma is tough. We know trauma's tough. And she probably didn't know how to handle it. It's not like she went. She never went to therapy and didn't do things like that.

B (5:39)

Like, it's hard to, you know, like. And I've realized this and learned this recently. I think it's hard to separate that. We think that our parent. We look at parents, teachers, all these things as these figures that are supposed to do A, B, and C. But at the end of the day.

A (5:54)

Right.

B (5:55)

We're all just humans, you know, and no one walking through.

A (5:58)

Yes. Yeah.

B (5:59)

The ages are different, but there's no, like, no one's wiser.

A (6:03)

I know. I know it's hard.

B (6:05)

Yeah, it is. It's like. It doesn't make anything right, you know, it just. You kind of. You view it through a different lens.

A (6:10)

Yes. Especially if you have no guidance. And she didn't have guidance. She didn't have, like. I mean, I had my grandparents, you know, who adopted her, but my grandma was an alcoholic. My grandfather was kind of an asshole, you know, military guy, and.

B (6:24)

And that was the environment she was in. You know, she was in this bar environment.

A (6:28)

Supposedly abuse. I think she was sexually assaulted by my grandfather. And. But she didn't talk about things, you know, like, ever. I don't ever remember her ever talking about things, really, that had happened. She. So she marries this guy, and I have not. Now I have two stepbrothers and a stepsister. And my stepsister and I are, like, just a couple months apart. And the brothers were older, so they get married. He. And these are just pieces that I know that I'll kind of go through things that I remember because I don't remember a lot of my childhood, unfortunately. But I'll fast forward a little. They have a son that is five years younger than me, so they have a bio child together. And then we have the two stepbrothers and the stepsister, my stepfather, going back to probably, like, 10, 11 years old. I remember. I mean, he was the nicest guy when he was sober. Like, cool dude. Like, you want to hang out with him when he. And all the drunks liked hanging out with him, too, because he was fun. But when he Would get home. And it's like once, if he had drank liquor, he. We lit. Okay, let me. Let me tell you this, too. We lived in what they used to call. Now I look back and I'm like, why the hell did I even believe any of that? They called it the underground house. Okay, Right. We lived in the underground house. Seven acres. And there was this house that all you could see was the chimney. Well, it was a fucking basement. Like, oh, sorry.

B (7:59)

No, you can pass.

A (8:00)

It's okay. Okay, okay. Because I am a trucker.

B (8:03)

I love it.

A (8:04)

It's. It was a basement. It was a mildewy, smelly, like, basement. There were two bedrooms, like, downstairs, a kitchen and a living room that kind of like ran together. And there was like a patio on the outside. So I don't. They called it the underground house, maybe to make us think it was something special, but I don't know why. They made good money, too. They just. That's the way they were living. So he would come home and you could hear him. Like, there was a long gravel driveway and. And you could hear him. And I remember this going back to at least 10 years old. You could hear him, like, barreling down the driveway in his truck from the gravel. So you're like, shit.

B (8:42)

Yeah.

A (8:42)

Like, regardless of what time, it could be 11 o', clock, it could be 3 o' clock in the morning, and you'd hear him stumbling in, you know, and there was like one door to get in. He'd slam that and it would hit the wall and you could hear him. And you're just like, laying there. Like, I can remember laying in my bed just thinking, oh, my God, please don't let him just pass out. Let him let something, you know, distract him or make him just go to bed. Because he would drag us all out of bed. Regardless of what time it was, he'd drag us all out of bed. If he was in that mood, you just never knew what you were going to get. He'd drag you out, bring everybody you had to sit at the table. And he'd be like, we're going to tap into his hand, like, we're going to have a goddamn talk, you know? And we're like, okay, I'm sick of you sons of. Like, that's what he was. And we're like, oh, God, what do we do now? He would bring up from, like, getting in trouble for the dog being outside, like, three years ago problems. And you'd get the shit beat out of you. Yeah. Like, he would chase you. Like, chase you around the house. He'd beat the. Out of my mom on a regular basis. So we're all. We're witnessing this and you're living in.

B (9:48)

A constant state of fear.

A (9:49)

Oh, constant.

B (9:50)

Yeah.

A (9:50)

Which is horrible. Which when you're 10 and you're like, even in your teen years and stuff, you don't realize what that's doing to you.

B (9:57)

Horrible.

A (9:57)

Yeah, it is. It is absolutely horrible. So he's super abusive. A couple other things that I can remember is I had a sleepover. Like, one time I had a girl from school sleepover, and we were probably like 11, 12. Whenever Michael Jackson's. Now I'm 49. So whenever Michael Jackson's first record came out, Thriller. I loved Michael Jackson. Okay. Now, mind you, I grew. I grew up raised in a very prejudiced house. He was so prejudiced. Like, if you. If you even talk to someone who's black, like, he had a problem with that. You know, they're. I'm not making excuses for him, but they were old school country, kind of like hillbilly. Like.

B (10:41)

Right. And it sucks to say it, but if that's how you're right, it's.

A (10:43)

Yes.

B (10:43)

When you're raised that way and that's all, you know, like.

A (10:46)

Like he would say all the crate, like kooks and like.

B (10:49)

Right.

A (10:49)

Just. But I had, like. And I went to, like, there was mostly all white kids in my school and we had a couple black kids. But I was like, friends with them. I was friends with everybody, you know.

B (10:59)

That'S the problem with our world, too. It's like if you're not taught, you're not. You don't know any. Like, no one should be different.

A (11:04)

Yes. Yes, It's. And it was drilled in us like, so such a mind fuck for like my older brothers, my stepbrothers.

B (11:11)

Sure.

A (11:12)

They used to do those derby cars, crash cars at the fair every year. Do you want to know what their name was? The Grafton Lynch Mob.

B (11:21)

Horrible.

A (11:22)

They did not give two shits. It was written all over their cars, everything. And everybody thought it was funny. Yeah. I was just different. I didn't want to be associated with my family at a very young age. I'm like, I can't wait to get out of here.

B (11:33)

That's what I was gonna say. I feel like sometimes people, because we are, you know, obviously we are a reflection to some degree of our environment and how we're raised. But at the same time, we are our own people. We do have our own souls.

A (11:47)

Right.

B (11:47)

You know, and just because you might be raised A certain way doesn't always mean you're going to turn out right.

A (11:51)

And as hard as it is, you can get out if. Yeah, you, you can. But it took me a long time.

B (11:57)

In you, I think, right. You have to want it right.

A (12:00)

And once you're beat down, beat down like by your parents, people who you're supposed to trust and who should be uplifting you, it's really hard. It's really hard to even recognize that. And that's why a lot of times people stay in abusive relationships because that's what they're used to and that's normal to them.

B (12:15)

Yeah.

A (12:16)

So going back to my Michael Jackson, my Thriller record that I had a friend spend the night and we're sleeping on the couch. Okay, yeah, we're sleeping on the couch. And he comes down the thing like he normally does when he's shit faced and he comes in like, just not even saying anything but bumping into stuff. And I kind of hear him come over by my record player was like right here, like over to the side of the couch and I hear him like coming over that way. I'm like, you know, like, what, what's going to happen now? I'm going to be so embarrassed. So he comes and he sees it, looks at my record and he breaks it up into a shit ton of pieces. And he like throws it at me on the couch and says, don't you ever bring this hard n word motherfucker in my house again. So like, I'm like, I just don't say anything. I know I'm crying to myself because I didn't want him to start like hitting me or something with my friend there. But she woke up too. It was super freaking embarrassing, especially what he was saying. So then I'm, you know, I'm thinking, oh gosh, she's gonna go tell everybody at school. That was the last time I had somebody spend the night.

B (13:25)

Right.

A (13:25)

First and last. Because of that, going forward a little bit into the teen years, like he would just do like the craziest shit, like make my brothers go out to the yard because they had a big yard by a pond that he'd. Make him go out to the pot by the pond and fight him. Like fight him just right. They didn't have a choice, you know, and they wouldn't, they wouldn't because that's their dad. He, he used the one thing that he used to do that really sticks with me, probably will forever. He. So they, we had like a dog and stuff. They kind of, they were kind of sloppy and just dirty people too. And the carpet in the living room in front of the fireplace. He used to. Now there's. There's been pee, poop, dog stuff. Smells like molds. Disgusting. He would. We get, when we get in trouble, when we were all there, he'd make us all like put our nose to the floor, Hands back here, like this. Nose to the floor, like in a circle with all our heads this way, you know, like together. And we'd have to be nose to the floor like for hours at a time in the spot you just wanted to throw up. I don't know how I didn't. I don't know how we did it. Like. Yeah, and that was like punishment. That kind of stuff was punishment. Dumb shit. If you said you could do something and then you weren't able to, like he'd pull you out of bed, you weren't able to. He'd show you and tell you, well, you said you could do this. So if you couldn't repeat like something that you said that you could do and actually make it happen. He. There was a time when like I remember him chasing me to my room and I was like trying to hide in my bed and I was probably like 13ish then. And him literally choking the shit out of me because I couldn't do whatever was in his head, you know, at that drunken time. And my. One of my stepbrothers like saved me. It's probably the only reason I'm here because they both got him off. Yeah. Yeah. So they end up times going past. Like I think we were 14 when I was 14, 15, they finally built up the house. So now and I. This was a period when he was sober for a minute. So he was like, he's fine. Yeah, he was like, cool guy, nice, you know, whatever. He worked. I mean everybody worked hard. It's not like anybody didn't make money. But they were just sloppy and he was a drunk and there was just all the abuse. It didn't last long. They built up the house. You know, I had my own room now, so I was excited about that. Well, as soon as he started drinking again, probably six months after that, he right back to where he was, but way more violent now, Way more violent. And he would get so shit faced that he would literally come in to the door and just pass out, like hit the floor. And he was like 6, 2, 6 3. He was a big guy. Yeah. And then the abuse, just always beating the shit out of my mom. Me and my little brother didn't get it a lot, but I did, and my. My stepbrothers did. My stepsister never got hit, okay? But he was drinking again. And I was now 15, and I would run away all the time. Like, every time he would get like that, I run away. But this is back. God, how many years? So long ago, where? It's not like it is now. Shit, if somebody runs away, they have all kinds of places to hide. They can do whatever. I would think. I'm living in the country. I'm like, I'm running away. I have nothing. But I would just walk the street, figuring out where I'm gonna. I have no idea where I'm going. So I'd get picked up by the police every time. My mom was like, oh, she's just a problem. She's unruly or whatever. No, I just couldn't live like that anymore. And it was just getting so bad. I'd get taken back every time, get taken back every time. Then there was even a point where they made me like an unruly child, you know, Like, I had a probation officer and all the shit. But my probation officer, she started to see what was going on, I think, you know? But back then, they didn't believe the kids. Like, you're the problem. That's just the way it was. So it got really, really bad when towards the end of my 15th year when I was 15, he beat the living shit out of me in my room with my mom. My mom standing at the door and didn't do a damn thing. That's when I used to feel bad for her. But when he was kicking my ass and she just stood there, didn't do anything. You know, you're supposed to protect me. Like, what the hell's going on? And I actually was climbing out of my window to get away from him, and my hair got shut in the. He slammed the window shut. My hair got shut. So I ripped a shit ton of my hair out to run and go. That's when they finally took me out of the house, where they didn't just go, oh, you're a runaway. We'll take you to the runaway shelter. We're taking you back home or whatever. My kneecap's on the side of my leg, like, he messed me up. He got domestic violence charges pressed against him. Then they gave my mom the choice to remove him or, I couldn't come back home. She chose him. So now I'm 15, and they are talking about, okay, you're gonna have to go to a foster home now. Or, you know, we have to find a place for you to live. Cause you're not. We can't send you back home. And that was when I would say, like, the real abuse started. I first went to a group home, and it was a group home for kids that basically had nowhere else to go. And a lot of them were bad. A lot of them had criminal charges, things like that. There was a boy side and a girl side. I had to go there for a little bit to be held there, because there were no foster homes available. So now, remember, I was raised prejudice. I was with all black girls and Hispanic girls. Now I'm the only white girl. So some of them, you know, we bonded. But we bonded because we were all being abused by the adults there at the group home. And, I mean, I used to have to walk. Like, I'd have to walk to the school, the school that they had there, to then take a bus to my regular school. And I was a cheerleader, too. So they're trying to figure out, how is she still going to be a cheerleader? How's she going to do these things, being in the foster homes, group homes. So on Fridays, I'm still wearing my cheerleading uniform. Now, this school that I'm walking to is basically all black. I'm just a white girl, like, wearing my cheerleading uniform, walking to school. And I can't even tell you how many times I got jumped by, like, you're trying to steal our man. Like, I wasn't even talking to anybody, you know? So now in my head, I start thinking, well, was he always right about black people? You know, like, was. Was that true? Because look what's happening to me. That's how I learned how to fight. After getting my ass kicked and jumped so many times, I finally started fighting back because I was getting my ass kicked. Like, not to mention then we're also being sexually assaulted and abused. Yes. Yes.

B (20:45)

How long were you in the group?

A (20:46)

I was only there for, like, three months. Go to a foster home.

B (20:50)

And then did you stay in contact with your mom at all or.

A (20:53)

No, Very rarely. Very rarely. Like, it was right around Christmas, too, before I was getting out. She, like, left me there at Christmas, like, didn't come and see me. Didn't do anything for Christmas. She. She chose him. You know, that's just the way it was. And so now I'm starting to, like, harden, you know, and I'm kind of just being an asshole. Like, you gotta protect yourself. Yeah. And I didn't trust anybody, nothing. So I go to my first Foster home. And I get pet. I. It. It breaks my heart when I know that people get sent to foster homes now just because of this. Even so far back, the. The dad, he was there for the check and to abuse. To sexually abuse all the girls. It was just.

B (21:45)

So how many kids were in the foster home?

A (21:47)

There were seven of us in this one. There were seven I didn't even know.

B (21:51)

That they were allowed to have.

A (21:52)

Yeah. Oh, there were like four of us in one room. Bunk beds.

B (21:55)

Okay.

A (21:56)

Yeah. Yeah. There weren't restrictions or any kind of guidelines or legalities on things back then, I don't think, because that. I mean, and it happened. Me getting abused and stuff happened so quick. So fricking quick. But the other girls, too, so I'm starting to bond with, you know, some of them because it's a trauma bond, you know, you're going through the same shit. I end up getting moved from that one because I'm telling my caseworker, I'm like. And you don't dare, like, say exactly what's going on because they're not. You feel like they're not going to believe you. I get moved to another group, another foster home. This one, the actual. They were horrible. Absolutely horrible. Mom and dad were disgusting. Horrible. The dad was a big, fat, sloppy guy who just sat at the end of the table and tried to do whatever he wanted with the girls at night while his wife just. Oh, she went to bed. Whatever. Like, disgusting.

B (22:56)

So it's literally like, what you're saying it reminds me of just these sick. Like something you read in a sick, twisted book that people don't really know happen.

A (23:06)

Way more people have no clue because it doesn't even sound real, you know? Like, how does that. Yes. How does that happen?

B (23:14)

And these poor kids, you know, it's like. Like you said, it's like that's. That's supposed to be their hope of, like, something, right? And it ends up with. The craziest thing is I feel like it ends up being worse in different ways.

A (23:26)

Yes. I was begging to go back home with this, Right. Because at least you were using it. I'll get the shit beat out of me. I'm not being abused like that, you know? And I finally got fed up one time. And don't laugh, because it's really freaking stupid what I did. But I tried to kill myself, right? Cause I'm like, I just. Just don't want to be here anymore. I took every single pill I could find in the cabinet. I drank bleach and God knows What else? Because I just wanted to die. Like, the pills weren't, like, working fast enough. So I'm like, oh, okay, let me. So it shows. I was like, out of my mind, obviously.

B (24:01)

I'm sure. You got so sick.

A (24:03)

Oh, I was so sick. And I had get my stomach pumped. I went to. I ended up going to, like, psych, you know, on a hold. Can't remember how long I was there. I want to say a week or so. And I do remember. I vaguely remember my mom coming to visit and I'm like, I would rather just come home. Like all this stuff's happening and blah, blah. She's like, no, you know, he's gonna try to get sober and whatever. You know, you just deal with that. So out of there. I go to a new group home after this. This is a group home. That was the absolute fucking worst when it came to abuse. Physical and sexual assault in late. And no one wanted to believe anybody. Though people, we finally started to say something and they're like, oh, yeah, they're just teaming up together, you know, because they're bad kids and all these things. Years later, the. The one foster brother is a cop and gets arrested for raping women that he pulls over.

B (25:01)

Oh, my gosh.

A (25:02)

Yeah. Yeah. Even the group home. Going back to the group home later in time, that place got shut down too, because finally, three different group homes and every single.

B (25:12)

I mean, that is crazy.

A (25:13)

There was never a group home that I went to that. That it didn't happen or. Or foster home.

B (25:18)

My. And you know, what's sick is, you know, a lot. Like you said, a lot of these people, they're probably signing up for this because they know that they can get away. It's easy. It's like, come on in sick and.

A (25:28)

They get a check. Right, Right. They're getting paid to do what they're doing. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's horrible. I mean, I don't know. And, you know, I did forensic psych and addiction for so long, so I dealt a lot with children's services and stuff. They tend to believe kids a little more. But these days, if a mom or dad, if they don't have, like, a needle hanging out of their arm in front of the kids, or if she's a prostitute and the mom's a prostitute, and if she's not doing that in front of the kids, the kids stay. Yeah, there's just. I can go on a whole tangent about that. So now we're running out of options. So my mom says, now my biological dad, remember, shot My mom went to jail and answered phones for six months. I hadn't really seen. I don't have a lot of memory from early childhood. I guess I used to have to go to him every other weekend. And the only thing that I remember about going there is I had two stepsisters and a half sister with that family. The only thing I remember about my father from then, from being younger, is that, like, it sounds so dumb, but it's just. What. For whatever reason, this stuck with me. If you say we're eating dinner at the table, if you had your hand, your elbows up on the table, even just resting them, or had more than this one hand to eat or to cut food with, he. If you did, it's not funny, but I have to laugh at it now. Cause it's just so crazy. He would flick you in the forehead with his fork, like, as hard as he could.

B (27:10)

Okay, no elbows on the table.

A (27:11)

Don't put your fucking elbows on the table. So then I guess we weren't getting it. I mean, we were kids, like, you forget. Yeah. So the one time I had my hand, like, here and just using my thing, stabbed me with a fork. Oh, I could feel my face getting red. Yeah. Like, how crazy. I can't even imagine doing that to someone. Like. But he was the man. I just remember him being very, like, confident and cocky and super narcissistic, but I don't remember a lot of details about him.

B (27:47)

So did you have a relationship with him at all growing up?

A (27:51)

I guess I went every other weekend. But I think all the other trauma, you know, how your brain protects you. All the other traumas, I don't remember a lot, just pieces. Or if someone mentions something, sometimes I'm like, I kind of might remember that. Or maybe I just think I do.

B (28:03)

But when you were in the foster.

A (28:04)

Homes, no relationship at this time. So then, you know, my mom says, oh, well, she has a. She has a dad she could go to. He. They live in Georgia.

B (28:13)

And you were how old?

A (28:14)

15.

B (28:15)

Okay, so all this, all three of those homes happened in the same year?

A (28:19)

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they don't believe you, Right? And then you get to just the point where I'm not even going to tell. And they. In the dads and the brother, they would threaten you. You know, you would be threatened, like, oh, I'll kill your parents. Or. Well, that's really not something to threaten me with because I don't really like them. It sounds terrible, but that's how I felt. But you don't know what to do at that age. And you don't feel like there was no one that I could trust. So she. My father comes and takes me back to Georgia. I go on a plane for the first time, and I go down there with him. I'm really uncomfortable because now, from what I'm remembering, my mom told me that this guy shot her, you know, and this is like, my dad. But why would you send me to live with him? You talk about how horrible he was. So I asked him about that. I remember going to the park and we're sitting on swings, and I asked him about that, and he was just like, I can't believe that you would believe your mother and not me. Like, I didn't do that to her. I did not do that. She wanted to die. She did that to herself, and she just wanted me to get in trouble. I'm 15 now. I don't know what the hell to think. Like, look what my mom's done. She's. Obviously, my mom has mental freaking issues because now she went to another that just beats everybody constantly. But why would she send me there? Yeah, you know, stayed there for a little while. So I'm fifth. Yeah. I'm 15. I get a phone call. You know, we still have, like, the rotary phones. We didn't have, like, cell phones or anything. And a girlfriend of mine from Ohio called and was telling me how she was so sorry that my. About my little brother. And I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean? And she was like, wait, you don't know? Like, no. What is going on? And so he's 10, I'm 15. He's 10. My stepdad ran him over while he was drinking. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I guess he was, like, holding on to the rear view on his bike and then went under the truck and he ran his head over and everything. Yeah, he lived. Lived like my half brother. He's my half brother, but he lived. But ever since that time on, he didn't go to jail either, which is really crazy.

B (30:44)

And that was. That was his son.

A (30:46)

His son. Yep. His and my mom's. So now I'm kind of freaking out. My dad's weird as shit. My stepmom's weird. Like. And then I hear this. I just want to go home. Yeah. I want to go back to being beat because I feel now that I need to protect my little brother, which he ends up with a shit ton of problems and a sexual predator and everything you can think of, but. But I think a Lot of it, you know, I mean, his head got ran over and then. But then it became to where he was, like he ruled everyone. So I went back there for a little bit, went back to my mom. Cause at this point, children's services aren't involved anymore because I'm at my dad's. So now if my mom says I can come back, I can go back. Now I'm like, beat me all you want, whatever. I'll just come there till I'm 18 and then be done with it. Well, didn't last very long and thankfully Children's services got back involved again. And this time they kind of saw me more for like who, who I was or who I was trying to be, you know, even at 16 years old, I was working, I was doing like all the things I was supposed to do. I had good grades in school. They ended up, when I turned 17, they ended up and I had to keep going to the runaway shelter and just all that drama stuff. But when I was 17, they let me legally be on my own, like kind of emancipated, but it wasn't emancipated. They didn't call it that. It was like independent living or something. So they helped me, they helped me do get my apartment, you know, like I had a little one bedroom apartment. I ended up getting pregnant when I was 18 and I only had like a month and a half left of school. But I like withdrew from school. Took my GED though right away. Got my ged, scored like the second highest in Ohio or whatever. Because I wasn't like a dipshit, you know, I just, I didn't want to go and face people and people know I was pregnant. I'm like, God, one more thing. I don't want all these people to like know everything that's going on with my life. So I, I'm pregnant. Enroll in college to start nursing, like right away. I'm like, you know, I have to make sure I can provide for her. You know, all the things that you're supposed to do. Her, her dad and I, that just never worked. So I was raising her like on my own and move forward a little bit. I'm still going to school, going to school full time. I'm working and I have this little baby. Now I end up with somebody I went to school with. I ended up with him. He is the spitting image of my stepdad. Not, not looks wise, but as far as behavior wise. So he is nicest, coolest guy ever. So much fun. Until he drinks and then he becomes a motherfucker. Like, beating the living. I mean, now I'm in nursing school at this point, too, and we're living together, so my daughter was, like, 2ish, like, around 2. 2 years old. Every time he would come home, that's. He'd beat the shit out of me. Like, that I was out cheating or what. I was sitting home the whole time with my kid, you know, like, he. But I felt like I loved him. He's not like that all the time, but that was. I didn't know what love was, you know? And there ended up being a time where he beat the shit out of me. Like, ambulance came, beat the shit out of me. And I go to the er, and it's in the same city where my mom shot or my dad shot my mom. The nurse, the head nurse in the ER happened to be someone who my parents knew. And she was like my godmother's friend or whatever, but she recognized my name, and she was, like, in tears. And, like, then they ended up doing domestic violence charges on him. Like, whether. And I was like, no, no, he's just, I don't want charges. You know, you don't want him to press charge. But they took it out of my hands at that point because I was like, beat so bad. And then go back to him again after that, and then shit happens again. And now I go to nursing school, and I'm in clinicals, and I can't talk because my jaw is so, like, messed up, so I can't talk. I'm kind of talking through my teeth. Well, God bless this lady. She was our director, and she called, like, the women's services, like, to come and talk to me. And I don't know what happened in my mind at that point, like, to where I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave him. I don't want to live like this. And I have a baby girl, and she needs to see different so that relationship ends. Funny story, side note, he just had to contact me. Now. This is like, I'm like, 20. So that's what, 30 years ago? 30 years ago, just a couple years ago, he contacted me, had his attorney contact me, because the job that he wanted to do, he asked if I would take those, like, get rid of the charges because he couldn't work with those chargers on there. So, I mean, enough time it passed. I'm like, whatever, yeah, that's fine. So you can work. But it's just funny how it all comes back around, you know, eventually. So moving forward, I'm still, like, I'm probably emotional mess. I was probably like a little nutcase.

B (35:54)

Are you back to living on your own now?

A (35:57)

I'm on my own now. I'm on my own now. I'm on my own living with my little baby. And I'm doing school and everything. And this is. I can feel my face, like getting red. Living on my own now. I'm at the point where, like, I can do this. I can do this on my own, you know, and just be alone and do school and do all the things. We're living in a efficiency apartment. It was cheap, you know, I needed that right then one of the nights. Now in my efficiency, there's only a door and then there's like a little window that kind of sat high like you could crawl through it if you had to. But to get to my apartment, there were a bunch of steps. So it's like it was wide open. Like anybody could see someone get in there in the middle of the night. Someone had obviously been in my house like that whole time, like that whole evening. I have no. I think, I think, I don't know. And in my head that's what I think, because I didn't hear anything. But all of a sudden it's pitch dark. My daughter's crib was like, over here. And then my bed was here and I just, I got hit in the head with. I mean, I know it was a gun. After I was laying in bed, getting ready to go to sleep, I got hit in the back of the head and he was like behind me, like on top of me, and he's like, don't fucking move. Don't say a fucking word or I will kill your daughter. So I got raped, like in every which way you can think of by gunpoint. I have no idea, like how, like time wise, like how long it went on. I didn't see the person it, you know, it was.

B (37:46)

I still don't know who it was.

A (37:47)

No idea. Nor did I say anything because I'm 20 years old. I'm thinking, yeah, they, they've threatened my parents before and done things like that, you know. Now they're threatening my baby, right? I have no idea. To this day. No idea.

B (38:03)

So you think that person was waiting for you?

A (38:05)

They were either in there or they got in, and I just don't know. Yeah, because it was pitch dark, right? So I'm kind of keeping everything that happened, you know, to myself and just moving forward. That's all I've ever known how to do. I was going out Starting to go out a lot. Probably a little bit too much. Like, on the weekends with my friends, you know, my 21st birthday came, you know, and we would kind of do the. The party and kind of just living life. Now. I'm a nurse, you know, just raising my baby. Or she's not baby, but she's, you know, two and a half now. We would go out, like, started going out downtown Cleveland, and, you know, you get to know the bar owners and all. You know, you're just feel like you're the shit.

B (38:49)

You're young at that time.

A (38:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I end up meeting my first husband out. We were all out. And when I initially met him, I was just. He. He knew some other people that I knew and everything, and it was just like. I don't know. We autumn, just right away hit it off. Life is, like, so good, like, for me to where I'm like, what's wrong with him? Like, there's something wrong with him. There's no way now to me. And, like, every time he'd be like, no, I love you. I'm sticking through this. And he knew, like, a lot of the stuff that happened when I was younger, he was so good to my daughter. I was like a nutcase, though, to where, like, I just didn't believe he was who he said he was, that he was that good. Like.

B (39:32)

But also, how could you? Like.

A (39:33)

Right, right.

B (39:35)

How do you have any trust in anyone at that point? I mean, you've only been with the worst.

A (39:39)

Right? And I've never been loved.

B (39:41)

Right?

A (39:41)

Right.

B (39:42)

In any circumstance.

A (39:43)

No. So, I mean, I was crazy bitch. I was doing stuff. Like, I would throw all of his shit out the window, the top window, and be like, I don't care. Just go. You know, you just try to push away. I'm gonna hurt you before you hurt me. You know, I give you a chance to. And we ended up getting engaged, like, only after, like, nine months on his. I had a surprise party for his birthday, and he asked me to marry him then. And at this point, it's only like, nine months now. I'm crazy and thinking, oh, you're not who you say you are. But he keeps showing up. He keeps doing what I guess people are supposed to do. It was just weird to me. Like, we've said I wasn't used to it. So at this point, even when we get engaged, we also know that we want to have more kids. We want to have kids, you know, other than my daughter. And he accepted her as his own, like, so fast. And it was so good to her. And right away, like, after we started dating, we started a staffing agency for nurses together, which did really, really well. And we went to the doctor. I found out I might not be able to have more kids. Had, like, surgery, all that kind of stuff to poke holes in my ovaries. And we said, okay, well, we're gonna get married after we have our first baby. Like, we didn't care about all the traditional whatever. So I have the surgery, poke holes in my ovaries, get pregnant. I ended up being pregnant with twins, but it was in my tube and ovary or in my tube. So I had emergency surgery. And then they left one in. I guess they didn't know that there were two and left the other one in. And then my whole tube and ovary ruptured, like, two weeks later, and I had to get everything removed. So, yeah, so we went through that trauma, but then we were like, no, we know we want to have kids. You know, baby. And the very next month, because I was still very fertile, I got pregnant with my youngest daughter, McKenna. So we go through all that. We have her, and then two months later is our wedding or. No, four months later. So I had four months to lose, like, all my weight and do all the things. We had the big, beautiful wedding and became, like, good friends with the people at the reception hall, the owners. And it was just amazing. It was wonderful. It was amazing. I never. By that time, I had never even doubted. Do I want to do this? Like, he was like. I felt like I didn't believe in God now. I did, because why did God let me go through all those things? But okay, now God sent me you.

B (42:15)

Yeah. Here's the light.

A (42:16)

Like, yes, yes. Like, okay, okay. Maybe there is a God. You know, you start because your brain, you don't know what to think, but just wait. Yeah, yeah. Like, you're always waiting for the ball to drop or something terrible to happen.

B (42:31)

So how long were you two together at this point?

A (42:33)

So we were together for three years.

B (42:35)

Okay.

A (42:36)

@ this point. And then. So this is October 27th. We get married December 28th. Okay. Oh, wait, let's go back a little bit. So 9, 11 happens. So this. I don't know. You're too young.

B (42:48)

Now. I was still.

A (42:49)

Around. Yeah, but older. Us older people, we remember exactly where we were, what happened, all the kind of things. So September 11th happened. We have a little baby. So she was born June. We have a baby that's a couple months old. We're watching tv. Like, everybody glued to the tv. You're listening to all these people talk about, oh, my God, it's so sad. I don't know how I'm gonna live without my husband or my mom. Right? You're just hearing all this trauma. For me, it really messed me up, you know, like, to where I'm like, I can't imagine how they feel, those poor people. And. Because I'm an empath, you know, Anyway, and I was, like, taking it in. So fast forward a little. And, you know, I went and got my daughter at school. Just. It was, like, craziness. I was kind of dwelling on it so much to where I was afraid to do things and afraid that, oh, God, something bad's going to happen if we do things now. Him and I, we. Our house was like, the cool house everybody came back to after the bars, you know, on the weekend. So we were still, like, going out, having fun with our friends. But it's December now, and we had New Year's, big New Year's plans. I decide, no, I don't want to go out for New Year's because what if something bad happens? There's a lot of people in Cleveland, and, you know, I'm just in my head, and we have two babies to worry about. And I'm like, let's cancel New Year's. So we cancel New Year's. But you know how it is probably if you have friends that are like, you're going out friends and partying friends, they're like, no, no, no, come on, you guys gotta go out this day. So it's the 28th of December. Everybody's going out because we're canceling New Year's. Everybody's kinda, like, pissed off at us. So we're like, all right, we'll go. We'll go. Well, I can tell you from the time we said, okay, we'll go. And probably, like an hour later, we're. We had a big L. Couch. We were laying on the couch, and I. I just looked over at him. I go, I don't think we should go. I'm like, I have a really, really bad feeling. And he's like, babe, you know, you're just, you know, because of September 11th, and you're just paranoid about everything. I'm like, no. I'm like. It's like in the pit of my stomach. I don't think we should go. And he's like, no, we'll be fine. You know, we're just gonna go out and have fun, and that's it. So I remember him Bringing my, my oldest had was at her dad's like for the weekend at this point. He brings the baby into me, into our bedroom when I'm getting ready and I give her a kiss and he's like, say bye to our baby girl. You know, like I'm taking her to his mom's. So now I'm like, okay, maybe it is all in my head. All right, let's just go out now. So when we went out it was like everybody met at Fridays, like a restaurant, you know, to have drinks and whatever. And then we were going downtown. So we started at like 5:30, you know, and everybody's kind of shit faced before even leaving Fridays. And then we go to like the clubs and everything downtown. Everybody is shitfaced. Like there's probably like 12 of us, 14ish. He gets in a fight with my ex boyfriend on the like when we're all on the dance floor now. He, my ex was being in a book, was being a dick, like being inappropriate like coming by us and stuff. They end up getting in a fight like beer bottles being thrown like all it's just a shit show. And now we know the owners. So like people were even saying stuff like, oh yeah, it must suck to get beat up and then kicked out because the other people got kicked out. I'm pissed now because I'm like still kind of in mom mode and like you know, worried about everything from, you know, the 911 stuff. I'm pissed. And I went to leave them there. My best friend and I went to the place next door. It was like this place called Panini's where everybody goes next door to eat and stuff. I go there, I think I just got like a soda or whatever and then I'm like, you know what, let's just go. So we were always responsible though when we would do this stuff. People didn't drink and drive or do anything like that. We would take like the good old van, yellow cab taxi kind of thing. So her and I get in to the cab and I'm like, no, I don't care, we'll leave them here. Which I would never have normally done something like that either. So they come out. His best friend that he's known since kind of like you and your friend, you know, since babies and they tried to get in the same cab. So I get out, I'm just being an asshole and I'm drunk and I just want to go home. So then I go in the cab behind them, they come back and they follow us back there. Now my Best friend was yelling at his best friend, being like, you guys are so stupid. How old are you? And I'm pissed because I'm like, we have an amazing business. We have two children. Like, why are you guys fighting like little children? We could lose everything. And they're just all kind of talking shit. So we're all in the cab now, and at this point, it's the van cab. I'm sitting in the middle of the bench seat right behind the cab driver, and he's sitting on the edge, you know, by the sliding door. He's sitting on that. On that end. And then my best friend and his best friend were behind us on the bench seat, behind. We're like. Everybody's fighting, you know, just drunken stupidness. And at one point, he said to me, he's like, why don't you just go fuck Frank, which is my ex. My ex. That is not something that ever in a million years would come out of his mouth or let alone, like, talk to me like. Like that. So I. I think I was just.

B (48:14)

Pissed. Like, who.

A (48:15)

The. You know, do you think you are? And I was like. I just looked over, and I'm like, okay, maybe I will. So now I'm pissed. Like, you're inappropriate. You just did all that dumb. So I turn, and I'm. Seat belt on. You know, we always wore seat belts and everything. And I just decided to look out the window. He's over here. Sliding doors over here. I just look out the window because I just did not want to deal with them. Then I can't tell you how much time passed. Probably 10, maybe 10 minutes, whatever. And I'm still not talking. And then I hear. I hear him go, let me out of the cab. To the cab driver who doesn't speak English, okay? And I look. I'm like, okay, whatever. What are you gonna do? Get out of the cab and walk on the highway, and we're gonna have to chase you down, like, just irritated. And then another second later, then I hear my. My best friend screaming, like, hysterically. And she's pulling me back, and I look, and the. The door's wide open. The sliding door's wide open, and we're going 60 miles an hour. And then I look back where she is, and I see him. Everything that happened to him on the highway. He was rolling across the highway, like. Yeah, I. I don't know what I was thinking. Just, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm lecturing about, like, our kids and all this stuff. Well, me. I. Then I'm holding on. I'm telling him to stop. And I'm hitting the cab driver. You stop the fucking cab. He's slowing down. And they think that I went out at 30 miles an hour to get to him. Like, I jumped out. Yeah. I mean, I still remember now. I have the memory, you know, back of the reality that I remember it not looking like it was that fast, you know. And now I had. And I had just gotten married, so I lost all my weight. I had. You know, I had tall boots on and skirt. Had my boots off. Cause we were like dancing and stuff all night. So I'm barefoot and it's cold. It's cold. It's December in Ohio. So it was really cold. I somehow fell face. Like, not face first. I didn't. My face didn't hit, but I landed on my hands and fell forward. And then I was able to get up. And it was. It was pitch dark. It was on a bridge. And I remember just. I'm running and all that's going through my head. Which was the craziest thing ever was his life and then our life. Like, it's all like kind of like what you would see in the movies. Like, it's. It was so bizarre. But that's all I was seeing. So I get to him right now. It's dark. My friends are still in this cab that's still going. I remember, like, I'm trying to find our phone. We had two phones. We had a business phone. You know, they were just the old flip phones now at this point, and I'm looking for the phone, I'm like, shit. He had both the phones in his leather jacket. So I'm still not to him yet. That's how far I had to, like, run. I get to him, and I can see that the white line is there. At least you know that he's on the line. So he's not in the road. His body lands, like, right on the line somehow. Cause I was worried about him getting hit or whatever. I get to him, he doesn't have a pulse. I remember just saying, oh, my God, please don't let this happen. Please don't. So then I still don't have a phone to even call 9 1. I start CPR now, my friend. So I'm CPR. Can't. I can't really see him that well because it was pitch black. Old country highway road. Until the cab is backing up now almost close to us. I start to see some light, and I see my friends, and they're calling 911 well, they're, like, hysterical. Completely hysterical. Like, you couldn't even make sense what they were saying. They're talking to 91 1. So I take the phone, then I have 911 here while I'm doing CPR because they were. They. They couldn't function. And then as the light's coming back, then I saw the blood, and it was the back of his head. He must have fell out. They think he fell out. And when. Or not fell out, when he jumped out, that at 60 miles an hour, that he cracked the back of his head. So he had a traumatic brain injury. I didn't see how bad that was, or the blood was, like, everywhere. I did CPR on him for 44 minutes because they dispatched the wrong ambulance to the wrong place, the wrong county, you know, the wrong city or whatever. So now when he did, towards the end, he blew my cheeks out, you know, blew air back in my cheeks. So I'm like, oh, thank God. Now, I know later that that was like an egg and all breath, like, just. They said he pretty much was gone then. Like, he didn't feel anything. He didn't remember anything. Ambulance came. I demanded that they let me ride in the back. And I rode in the back with him. They couldn't intubate him. It was just like a complete shit show. Get to the hospital. Our friends, the cab actually ended up taking them and then charged them to take them to the hospital, too, to drop them off. All of a sudden I start seeing Pete. Like, I don't know if my Jen and John, if they, like, called the friends, if they called people. And everybody starts showing up at the hospital and they take him back. I'm not allowed back there at this point. They take him back. And we're waiting, waiting, waiting. And I remember them coming out to me and saying, you should probably call his parents. You know, whatever. I'm like, why? I don't want to worry them. He's going to be fine. Like, I was just, like, completely in shock. And they had me call his mom. And I can remember the room there was just this old rotary phone. And it was like this little tiny room with, like, two chairs and then a little table and a phone. And I call his mom, and I'm like, hey, you know, you guys might want to come to the hospital because, you know, there's an accident. Jay got hurt, but you really don't have to because I'm sure he's going to be fine kind of thing. And, like, friends were, like, there, and they're like, they tell me, you know, I know now that they were like, what the hell? Like, no. So somebody called her back and was like, no, you need to get here kind of thing. I was, like, in complete denial. They finally. That he's in icu. They let us, you know, take that. Now we have a whole huge room full of people, like, in the waiting room in the icu. Like, friends are coming from everywhere. And he. The neurologist comes out to me, and he's like, we have to put him on life support. And he has zero brain activity. I'm like, so what does that mean? I'm like, that's okay. He'll be all right. Now I'm 25. I'm only 25 years old. He's 28. At this time, I didn't want to believe him. I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about. Like, I need to have another specialist, another neurologist or someone else tell me this. He's like, okay, I understand. He was very nice about it. Now, mind you, he was one of the best neurologists in Cleveland, you know, but in my mind, no, you're not telling me what I want to hear. What do you mean? Like, he's not going to listen live. Because I just figured, okay, he can be on life support, and he'll get better, and I'll take care of him. Whatever we have to, we'll just have to do it. Well, the next urologist came, and I. It was the strangest thing. They came and gave me his rings because he had, like, a ring on his right hand. A ring on his right hand. Then his wedding ring that he was, like, so proud of. He. Like, we made them, and they were platinum with diamonds, and. And he'd only had it on for, like, two months, you know, And I'm like, why are you giving me his rings? He's gonna be upset. Like, he loves that ring. You know, I'm holding it in my hand, Like, I was so out of my mind that, like, people were trying to go the bathroom with me. Try. I couldn't even function. And I wouldn't let anybody touch him. I kept saying, no, God is gonna get. Let him live. I'm not gonna put down these rings. Weird. Why did I think that or say it? But I really believed it, like, in that minute when that was happening. So the next neurologist comes and tells me the same thing, and I'm like, no, you're wrong. I will take care of him for the rest of my life. Like, as long as his mind is there and he'll come back, I will take care of him. I'm not taking him off life support. And they said, ma', am, so sorry, you don't have a choice. I was like, what do you mean I don't have a choice? Do you know what I mean? Like, what do you mean, I don't have a choice? People do it all the time and they go on life support and come out of it. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. And then they were ringing in, do I want to ore do an organ donation? Do I want to do all those things? And I'm like, now this. I don't really remember a lot of this. Just what's been told to me. Like, everybody was allowed to go back there and say goodbye to him. And I was like, just sitting there, like, staring at him, like, not saying anything. I remember he had, like, warming blankets on him and stuff. And his eye was like, huge. When I'm like, I thought he didn't have any. He didn't really have any broken bones or anything. And they set the impact, you know. So to me, it just like, he must, because his head was all wrapped. They had done multiple surgeries on his brain to try to stop swelling, multiple MRIs. They thought he moved once, but then it was a reflex, you know, so now it's time where it's being taken out of my hand. So I at least want to do organ donation. So I have his mom, you know, sit down with me with them, and I wanted to donate. Don't ask me why, but everything but his eyes. I thought it was gonna be weird to look at someone else that would have his eyes. You know, when you get to meet the recipients. So we go through all that. Everybody's saying goodbye. This was like 2:33 in the morning when this happened. And now it's about 11:30am they're saying that we have to go home and, like, leave him there. And because, you know, they have to do the organ harvesting and testing and all that, all that kind of stuff. And they were gonna take everything out. And I guess I wouldn't leave. Like, I was holding onto his bed. They had to, like, physically remove me because I did not want to leave him. He was the only person that ever loved me. Like, that's. He's my person. Like, I'm not leaving him.

B (58:44)

Here. So.

A (58:45)

Sudden.

B (58:45)

Yeah. Seems like just so out of character for you.

A (58:48)

Guys. So out of character for everything he ever was. It was just a drunken stupid. That Stupid, stupid mistake. And that's why I always tell everybody like, you just don't know. You just don't know. It could be a second, just one dumbass.

B (59:04)

Mistake. When you're drunk, it's like your mind is not.

A (59:08)

Even. Well, even me. Invincible. Who the hell's gonna jump out at 30 miles an hour? Even where? Me. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is good enough. I'm gonna go get to him. No, you don't. You don't think. And that's what people forget all the time. And you know, you're. Everything's hindered. And so I go home. I remember having to tell my Chelsea. My oldest came home and I was at his mom's because I didn't want to go back home where we lived. I like couldn't do that. And he, they called me at like. So now it's like 10 at night. They call me to tell me that they're sorry I'm laying on the couch. Oh wait, let me go back to. So I had to tell my 6 year old daughter at this point, which was like probably one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life because she loved him, you know, and how do you, how do you tell a six year old? Like, how do you even tell them? So I just remember telling her and she, and I, and I, I kind of made the mistake of saying like, well, he's everywhere and he'll always be around us and he'll this. And so then she was like, all of a sudden, just being six, is he that butterfly? Is he that bug? Is he. This is he. Which was like breaking my heart and I just was not functioning. And now this is December, December 28th into December 29th. So I'm. But I'm laying there on the couch, it's about 10 at night and the hospital calls and they want to tell me that life bank, you know, for the organ donation, they're not going to be able to do it. And I'm like, why? Because he was so healthy, worked out all the time, ate right, did everything he should do. Never like use drugs like that. I mean, we like did dumb shit back in the day, you know, but not like needles. And not that that's an excuse but. Or justifies it. They tell me that he had hepatitis and I'm like, there's no way he has hepatitis. I just had a baby six months ago and had every test. We are never apart. Like, he does not have hepatitis red the test. So they couldn't donate his organs because of this. All of his organs, which. He was in great shape. So there were all those. Recipients were already notified.

B (61:25)

Everything. Did they redo the test or. They wouldn't do.

A (61:28)

It. They said, we've done the test. Long story short on that part, though, months later, when at my court, we had. We had an office at the corporate center. It's like a big building, you know, with just businesses. They call me. It's like months later, they call me to apologize that the tech messed up the test. It wasn't his. The one thing that I would have had to hold onto to meet these people that got to live on through him, like, was taken too, you know, so nothing even really happened with that. I was just pissed and whatever because I was in a different world anyway. I was so. Even at the funeral, I remember laying there. I was laying there before the. You know, the days before the funeral. Because now it's like New Year's is coming and I'm like, how are all these people going out? How are all these people going out with everything that just happened? But it only happened in my life, you know, how's everybody going out and celebrating? And I. And now I'm going back to 9, 11 and. Oh, my God, I never would have thought these people felt like this. That it's this bad, that it's this devastating, that you just want to die. I just wanted to die. Like, I wasn't even thinking of my.

B (62:47)

Kids.

A (62:47)

Yeah. Which they're my world. I wasn't even. I just wanted to be with him. Like, it was cr. I don't even know how my head went to that. You know, like when. When we had the wake, you know, the visitation part. Something that always will stick with me forever, too. Just about the dumb shit that people say, you know, when people die. And I. There's so much that I don't remember, but I remember this lady coming up to me and she kind of, like, puts her arm around me, leans in, and she's like, don't worry, honey. You're really young. You'll find another one. Like another husband. I'm like, lady, now, I know she went later. I know that she went through that too. And like. But, God, just please, people, let's just not watch what we say. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I was so out of my mind that I tried to crawl in his casket with him. Like, I was a freaking mess. I was a mess. I was a mess. But I was also walking around in shock. I mean, two day. Even before the funeral, two days after I had 150 employees, nurses that I had to pay. I just went back into work, like, all right, I got to do payroll. Like, that's why it's bothered me so much. Even with everything that's happened, like in the past month, like with the school shootings, Charlie Kirk and seeing Erica Kirk and what she's went through over that, I've been like, feeling for her, you know what I mean? Like as a widow in mine's 20, 24 years.

B (64:21)

Ago.

A (64:21)

Yeah. But you still feel that it's still affects you. And I was. I was just straight out of my mind. I would run and hurry up at the corporate center and I'd have to get to the cemetery before it got dark because I was afraid he'd be mad or upset with me or God might make something else happen now. And because I now I hated.

B (64:39)

God.

A (64:40)

Yeah. You know, and.

B (64:42)

People. And like, in that, you know, it's just, it's. We live in such a crazy world where it's like people already are so judgmental. And then like, imagine adding in social media to that and people critiquing your every single move, like, oh, she doesn't care because she does.

A (64:56)

This. Oh, the. That people even said that I pushed.

B (64:59)

Him.

A (65:00)

Yeah. Out The. His best friend and my best friend were in that cab too. Don't you think that his best friend would have said something? And there wasn't social media. There wasn't. I mean, thank God, I. I might not even be here. And even because of all that.

B (65:14)

I think of you coming into work, people cope very.

A (65:17)

Differently. Oh.

B (65:17)

Yeah. People don't want to just sit around in their feelings.

A (65:20)

They. They all like, judge so now. But I was used to trauma, you know, but not this kind of trauma. This was like.

B (65:27)

Very. This was very direct. And I think too, like you said, it was the first light that you had. It was the in it that it was ripped from.

A (65:35)

You. Right. So then I'm mad at God, thinking, how dare you? How dare you give me the shit life that I've had and then give me him to just miss him for the rest of my life? Like, why. Why even give it to me at all? You know? And after he died, you know, I was so young, you know, I'm 25.

B (65:56)

Now. You don't even truly probably know who you were.

A (65:58)

Yet. No clue. No. I think I just found myself finally, like the last five.

B (66:03)

Years.

A (66:03)

Right. You know, and I'm. Like I said, I'm 49 years old. So after Jay died, you know, I didn't have the Family there to support. I mean I had great friends, I did have great friends, but I was such a mess. Like I would do, you know, we still couldn't figure out like in my head, I still couldn't wrap my head around like there's no way he jumped. He had to have fell. He would never do that. So in my mind I'm like, there's no way. There's just something else happened. So me, I. And not that this is right and I would never condone it if other people are doing it, but it's the whole, you know, try not to judge people with what they're going through. For weeks I would go out on the weekends. Now my friends accompanied me I think because they knew, well, she's doing this whether we like we should at least be there. I would go and get completely shit faced like we were that night. Enough to where I then wanted to get in a cab, sit in the same seat that I was in. And when I saw that it was at 60 miles an hour, I wanted to open the door to see what he saw. Crazy. Yeah. I just kept doing it like. And I'd still be seat belted in, you know, but I wanted to open that door. I mean I freaked the frickin. Yeah the cab drivers out every time. But I just couldn't wrap my head around.

B (67:24)

It. Didn't make.

A (67:24)

Sense. No. But throw a shit ton of alcohol in there and you can pretty much do anything or think you can. I know he didn't jump out thinking, oh, I want to kill.

B (67:34)

Myself. No, like just like, like, yeah, you're letting out, you're drunk, you're stupid, you're like. You want to prove.

A (67:40)

Something? Yes. Yes, he wanted.

B (67:42)

To. I think he wanted. Probably wanted a reaction and he.

A (67:45)

Was like a baby like that. Like a.

B (67:47)

Powder. Like there's so many different aspects and when you throw in alcohol, even going back to your other experiences, it changes people for sure. Day and night for.

A (67:57)

Sure. Yeah. And I mean even like the. My.

B (68:00)

Abuser.

A (68:00)

Right. Nice. Nicest. Where then it also made it look like the people that weren't living in the house, they think you're crazy. What do you mean? Not. Not nice, Jim. No way. Like they don't see that side. Scary. It's very scary. So moving forward, I was a mess for a really long time. I OD'd a couple times. Like at his grave. My friends found me. Like I just want. I even bought. I bought a plot that. Where it was like a cement and cement in the ground. And he would Be on the bottom, and I'd be on the top. Like, I was just truly out of my mind. And I didn't think about my kids still for months and months and months. I could barely look at my baby because she looked so much like him, and he loved her so much. I live with a lot of guilt, you know, with that, because I just wasn't functioning. And sadly, no one picked me up. You know, from that to where you can move forward. I think it's so important, like, with people when, you know, you have all these people around you and they're saying, oh, if you need anything, if you need anything, we'll be here. We'll do. Stop saying that to people unless you really mean it. Don't even say it. Just do.

B (69:11)

It.

A (69:11)

Yeah. Like, don't say, what can I do for you? You know? Like, I feel like a lot of people asked that, trying to be nice, but I was never in a million years gonna ask someone for.

B (69:23)

Something. What do you ask for? Yeah, bring him.

A (69:25)

Back. Right, Right. And I was.

B (69:27)

Just.

A (69:27)

Yeah. Miserable. So moving forward, you know, I still kept the business going, but now I was, like, doing it all myself. He was, like, my partner in that. We had great employees, too. Like, they were really good to me, like, after all that. And now we're young, though. We were young employers, you know, I. We had people that were, like, in their 60s working for us. I think everybody knew I was a little crazy after that. Like, I just did not do shit that made sense. I would. They had me very medicated, too. So I had the doctor that saved everything for us to be able to have babies was giving me a shit ton of, like, Xanax and stuff, like. And he ended up being that doctor. Ended up being someone I trusted again. And then the first time I ever went there, I'm kind of jumping all over a little bit. The first time I ever went there for a checkup after and after Jay died, and he was, like, so sad and all that. He was in there by himself, and I remember him, like, putting his hand on my knee after my pelvic exam and, like, kissing my.

B (70:32)

Knee. Oh.

A (70:33)

God. I was just like, okay, that's.

B (70:34)

Weird.

A (70:35)

Yeah. Don't. You know, a few months later, he's being arrested for raping his patients. Oh. So then they're trying to question me, and I'm like, no, I didn't go to him. I. I couldn't handle that, too, because he didn't do that to me, thank God. But to kiss my.

B (70:51)

Knee.

A (70:52)

Right? And, you know, yeah. I'm like, oh, my God, all those poor women. I'm like, oh. And I didn't say anything when he did that. I just thought, here's another. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So. Oh. So back to the Xanax. I was eating Xanax like there was no tomorrow. I didn't. And I was. I think I thought I was a fully functioning, pretty much addict at that point. I would answer my phone all through the night from when my nurses called to see where they were going the next morning and stuff, and I didn't answer them. I knew everyone's schedule. I knew, but I was not functioning. Like, I was out of my mind. Come to find out later, we find out that I have an issue with absorption. Thank God, because if I would have been absorbing all that Xanax, I'd be.

B (71:33)

Dead.

A (71:33)

Okay? So I did. I did thankfully get lucky with that, but I didn't find that. That out too much later. And I already stopped taking it myself because I was so numb, and it just wasn't functioning well. So after that, and then I'm moving all over the place. I can't right away. I had everybody, like, within a week, come and get, like, all his stuff out. You know, some people do it to where they're like, no, I just still want to. And I'm only 25, young, I don't know any better. Jump back a little bit. I even. I buried him with his ring, too. Like, his beautiful ring that he loved. That I regret now, you know, because. But in my mind then I'm just like, he loved that ring so much, and I want it to be with him, you know, Advice I wish someone would have gave me. Like, don't do that. You'll not want to later. So now just to get it back, I'd have to, like, dig up his grave. It's not something I really want to do. So I'm moving all over. I can't be in one spot if I'm moving. I'm living in, like, by Cleveland. Everybody come get his stuff. I don't want to live there. I can't be there. I can't. I'm just not able to function. And so I moved to Columbus, then moved back. And then then at, like, when my daughter was. Probably two years after it happened, I finally, like, you know what? I'm just gonna pick a spot in the United States and move with me and my kids. And everybody's like, what the fuck are you doing? You know, I literally picked a spot, and it happened to be South Florida, went there, moved there, didn't know a single soul. And I was at the point with my business that I could do everything remotely because it's just like their scheduling and stuff. So I end up, at this point, I end up dating someone that was one of the partier people that we all like would see out and knew. I mean, I hate to say it, but his like story. We were together for like six years. We owned a relocation company together. He was gone a lot on the semi and he also had a drinking when he drank. This is what I'm attracted to. Right. So why. I still don't know, you know. So I mean, I know now, but at this point I didn't know he was like Jekyll and Hyde. Like it was like after two drinks, if he did that third drink, you could start to see the change, you know, that face change and that snarly smart ass, whatever and just starting shit. He was never like physically abusive to me, thank God. But he was very verbally abusive and just, it was just like, you know, one of those people where they want to argue with you about something and when you're trying to escape from them, they're still right in your face. And he was like a 280 pound ripped bodybuilder, you know. And then he loved cocaine too, so. And that was like the first time I had ever done that. Like we would do stuff back in the day, like ecstasy and whatever, crazy ass shit. But I was like, ooh, not cocaine, I'm never touching that. So. But when I was with him and we would go out in Cleveland, we'd go back when we were home in Cleveland, we would do that kind of stuff. And he couldn't go out without it though, you know, like. And it started being. He'd be gone for like three weeks, four weeks at a time. And when he would get home, that's like what he wanted to do. So obviously he was doing that crap like on the road too. And I just didn't know I was back in school again because at this point I wanted to go to law school. So I'm back in school and I'm running the business from home. He, he just won't stop the shit. And he's calling me on accident, like drunk and wasted while he's on the road with our big semi truck and people's belongings. And we were doing people, like famous people and like people on the island and English royalty. Like he had a big responsibility but he would call me and be like, ask for one of our Workers and be like, is the war in there? Like at 2 o' clock in the morning, like our time, he'd be like, in Phoenix. And I'm like, you stupid asshole, you're calling me. And then he like. And too bad back at that in those days because I would have been like FaceTime me. There was no, like, there wasn't anything like that. So I want to. I want to leave him. I want to end the relationship because I know it's not healthy. Now I'm starting. I'm probably what, 30ish, you know, right around. I know I was with him on my 30th birthday. So probably like I'm 31 and I'm like, this is just not what I want. Like, this is just crazy. And he's just crazy. And he just keeps wanting to do blow constantly. I'm like, I don't want this. So I keep trying to end it right. And he keeps telling me that if I end it, he's going to drive the semi off a bridge. So here I'm like, oh God, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to be responsible for that. And so I just stay with him like for probably like another year, year and a half. Finally I'm fed up. He like started like talking shit to my.

B (76:34)

Daughters.

A (76:34)

Yeah. At that point. Which she never had done before. And I ended it. We end it. I moved back to Ohio at this point and I end up dating. We're done. I end up dating somebody, an undercover DEA guy for like a couple years. And we lived together. He was a complete narcissist. But that first year that we were together, I get a phone call. Now we remember Chris, the one that I was with for the six years, he. With the relocation company. He. We had power of attorney over each other for business wise, just in case anything happened, everything like that. So I'm his power of attorney. But we didn't think that you have to like dissolve it for it not to be in effect. So I get a call and they're telling me that I have to come to the hospital to claim all his stuff because he died. Yeah. Of a cocaine overdose. His heart exploded.

B (77:32)

Yeah. How long after was.

A (77:34)

That? That was just a year after we split up. Like I was already with somebody else and. But he kept calling me on New Year's Eve, but I was like in my new relationship and like, just wanted to be. Yeah. Yeah. So he. So he died in someone else's bed, some girl's bed. His heart just ruptured now he would. He was a bodybuilder. He had steroids, like, most of his life. And he was 10 years older than me, so probably just a bad combination of things. Oh, yeah. And he didn't know when to stop. Like, you know, we would all go out. Not that I can donate, obviously, doing cocaine, but, like, for me, I could do like a line or whatever. He had to do like three and. Okay, it's time to get. Like. He just never knew when to stop. And. Yeah, so he died in somebody else's bed. How awkward that I had to then go to the hospital and claim all his things. And he had a crackhead brother that was a true crackhead that is trying to get his jewelry, like Tiffany's back then. Tiffany's jewelry and stuff. Like, there was a Tiffany bracelet and things like that that I had bought him previously. And his brother's trying to take it. And then they're asking me about organ donation. So I'm like, oh, God, I don't wanna deal with an organ donation again. They're telling me, based on his risky behavior, so then they can't donate his organs either. So that it. It was just one shit show after another with that. And then, you know, we had to go to the funeral. My ex, or the ex that I was, the new guy that I was with then when he died, he actually went to the funeral and we took the girls and. Yeah, I got blamed for that too, you know, like. Oh, it's just, you know, you get they. People just want to blame other people instead of taking responsibility when everyone saw his behavior all that time. So let's fast forward. I still have my staffing. No, I. That's when I closed my staffing agency and I just started doing, like, real estate in South Florida. I'm still going to school. Oh, not let me back up. I was in Ohio with that guy during those couple years. And I go back to Florida after that. Didn't work out. I go back to Florida and I'm doing. I'm the director of nursing at a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center. And, you know, my girls are doing good. We're all doing great. Then I end up getting this job offer in Cleveland for forensic psych to be a director. So we end up going back at this point. So this is jumping all the way to 2012. Move back there. I'm the director of a forensic site. People who are, like, coming out of prison, things like that, they're legal, insane, and kind of getting out of some of the shit they did. Because of their mental capacity. So start this new job. I start this new job. And my second month there, the Chardon High School cafeteria shooting happened. So I get called there as a psychiatric first responder to the. To the school shooting. I have, you know, 11 kids behind the shooter table. They were super traumatized. I ended up having those kids for, like, months and months and months. We did a fundraiser. Like, they were just. He ended up shooting up the whole cafeteria to where, you know, I took them back through the cafeteria. We did all the things, and they were just great kids. Great kids in that time. So the Chardon High School shootings happen. I was moving some of my stuff back from Florida, the remainder of my stuff, and I worked out all the time then. So I started getting this pain in my upper back, and I'm like, shit. I pulled something from working out. So I'm having my oldest daughter dig her elbow in it just to kind of rub out. I thought I had a knot or something in there the next day. So the shootings happen. I'm trying to go see those kids. I'm trying to do my work in Cleveland, too, that I'm the director of. And that morning, I'm going into work in Cleveland, and I'm like, shit, I can't breathe. Like, I was out of breath, running up the stairs to go to my office. And one of my nurses that worked for me is like, shel, you look blue. And I'm like, what? I'm like, no, no, I gotta take this call. Whatever. Just kind of blowing it off. Well, by the time I started taking that call, the nurses must have told the director. Director over all of us, the president of the company, like, what was going on with me? And she calls me and she's like, you get your ass to the hospital right now, or I'm calling the ambulance. She's like, there's something going on. I'm like, I'm fine. She's like, that's an order. Like, go do it now. So I'm like, all right, shit. I'll go appease her, whatever. But I'm fine. But I'm starting to have chest pains. I can't really breathe real well. So obviously something's going on, But I'm still in denial. I got too much work to do. Go to the hospital. I end up having bilateral pulmonary embolisms, which is blood clots in both of my lungs, just out of nowhere. It started from a clot that I had in my leg and just almost killed me. Yeah. So I was in the hospital for, like, two weeks. All the Chardon kids, like, would come to see me. Like, it was just. It was a rough time. And I was doing my psychiatric nurse practitioner all the same time. So I'm, like, totally overworked, draining myself. But then while I'm there during that time, I start talking to my ex. That was the.

B (83:09)

Undercover.

A (83:09)

Okay. Very toxic for me. But I thought I loved him. You know, he's super toxic. And then. But you just keep thinking you just want to go back to that toxic person again. Because when he loved me, he, like, loved me. And I go back to him just like, we're seeing each other a little bit here and there, which I definitely should not have been doing because he was horrible for me. And I'd already done it, like, 10 times previously. I end up going to a therapist, like, for the first time. And one of the things she's like, you have to get rid of, like, all this toxic stuff in your life, and you're just spinning and spinning and spinning. And she had said to me that. I don't know why it triggered me, but when it came to that guy, she said, he is heroin to you. You just. You're drawn to him. You're drawn to him because you think you have this trauma bond and whatever you have going on with him, it's all. It's in your head. Like, it's not really what you think it is. Like, this love that I think it is. Well, that was all too much for me. When she's like, you need to cut him off. And whatever. I am spinning, like, out of control in my head. I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna go home and take a couple Xanax because I need to calm myself. I end up frickin overd ing like, where they're kicking my door in, like. And I wasn't like, I want to kill myself. I was just like, I need to stop feeling. I. This. There's too many emotions and all the things. So, yeah, there we go. Then I end up in the psych ward, stomach pumped, all kinds of stuff. My job's still there. All those things are still there. The Chardon thing's still going. A lot of people don't even know exactly what happened. They just knew that I was, like, in the hospital again. But I'm considered an addict, though. When I go to the hospital, they more than keep me on the psych ward. That was 2012, 2013. You know, I got through all of that, you know, going to the hospital, and I felt Horrible for how my girls felt, you know, just because it wasn't intended. Like, I was trying to, like, not be here anymore. I. I was just dumb and didn't. Didn't think. So I'm gonna fast forward all the way to, like, 2017. Yeah, 2017. So I've been doing psych and addiction forever. You know, that's like, my specialty. 2017, though, I've done psych and addiction. I was an interventionist. I did all the things you could do to try to get people off drugs and because I felt like it was my passion until I should say 2017. I had a friend in Cleveland who was larger than life, but lived in Johnny Menzel's penthouse. Like, he was doing well, but he's kind of an asshole, you know, Just a guy who. I mean, this is like, we're in our 40s. We were at, like, 40 something now. He was a couple years older than me, but he was a friend that was like, Mr. Cleveland, you know, I'm in Florida, though. We've always been friends. And when I go home, we'd all go out and things like that. But he liked, you know, younger women. He liked multiple women. And he finally was with a girl who was much younger. And he was with her for years and years, but cheated on her. Like, I probably. I won't even go into detail because out of respect for her, but he was just a big cheater. And finally she got strong enough to, like, be like, no, I'm not doing this shit anymore. Now, mind you, to go back a little bit, I would get called when he's like, on the roof of whatever my detective friends in Cleveland would call me, so. And so he's on the roof with a gun, like, just gonna kill himself kind of thing. But he was starting to do drugs and shit. Mixed with his narcissism and just all of the other things that he had going on from childhood. And whatever it was, I would get called, everything would be fine. Then he'd pretend like nothing ever happened. So this time, though, I'm in Florida. His girlfriend Cassie, at this time is like, no, I'm not. I'm not coming back. I'm not. You're just doing too much. And she finally was seeing that she could get away from this. So he decides. And it was going on for days. He decides, oh, I'm gonna, like, kill myself, or I'm doing this, or he's gonna buy this or wants to travel the country. So I'm the one that then ends up talking to him where he will talk to me. He's hanging up on everybody else doing all these things. Now I'm in Florida, so I'm talking to him on the phone. And at this time, he's not even in Cleveland. He's at his other place in Jersey. In New Jersey. He is talking a lot of crazy ass shit. You know, I'm telling people and I'm texting people, hey, he's a little out of control. Like, I kind of feel like he might do something this time. And they're like, no, he's just wasted. Just whatever. He talks to shit all the time, Shell. Don't worry about it. I'm like, I don't know, you know? And I. So all day I'm talking to him and he's telling me stuff like, oh, go get. They had a Frenchie. He's like, go get my dog from her. Bring it to me. Like, I want to open one of the med spas that I have. He's like, I want to open one in. Oh God, Hoboken. So he wanted to open one there and he's like, bring the dog to me and like, let's do a business together. So I'm like, oh, okay. Maybe he is okay because he's talking about future stuff and he's like, cassie, this. And she knows. She was a flight attendant and he. He was a big philanthropist too. Like, he'd give money all the time and he was like, the things that he was really. And I'm gonna shorten his story a lot, but he was really pissed that she wouldn't still give him a buddy pass so he could fly to the other countries and do the stuff like, dude, just buy your own plane ticket. You're fine. It was just like a principal thing. So we're going back and forth, back and forth. It started in the morning and now we're into like, it's almost 8 o' clock at night. He. I'm on the phone still. He's like, oh, you need to log in. You know, you need to log into my. What's it called? Blink one of those home. The home things. I want to say it was blank. He's like, you need to log in there. I want you to see the house. I'm like, no, I don't need to log in there. That's fine. Because now he's like starting to get weird and like, just talking a lot of about, like, I've taken my life and, you know, live la vida loco. He's just texting me, I want you to have this painting. I want you to have that. I'm like, quit talking like that. You're like, it's just ridiculous. We go through this all the time now. Now I'm finding out from other people that they've already sent the police there a few times to his house because he was threatening suicide and stuff. And he would answer the door and be like, oh, my God, these girls, they're just all crazy. Like, what are they even talking about? No, I'm not. So he'd talk shit, they'd leave and. Cause what can they do if he's saying I'm not? So it's around 8 o'. Clock. Cassie's not giving in to him now. He's like, that's it, it's all over. I'm done. I'm done. You better log in right now or I'm doing it live on Instagram. Instagram? Like, you're doing what live on Instagram? He's like, I'm gonna kill myself on. On Instagram Live for everyone to see. So I'm like, are you kidding me? So I'm like, all right, what's the login like? I'm just, at this point, I'm thinking that I'm just appeasing his dumb bullshit. He's talking a lot of conversations going on, and he. Then I log in. He's like, yeah, you see this? See that? Yes, it was. Beautiful house, all the things. And he's like, okay, I'm gonna go now. And he's like, it's done, it's over. I'm done. I'm like, oh, God. Okay, you know, this is enough. So now I'm logged into his thing, you know, this is like 8, 9 o', clock, I'm logged into. I wanna say it was blink. Let's just call it blink. I'm logged into the. You know, the video to where I could see what's going on. And at this point, he's getting off. He won't answer calls anymore from anybody. Like, he's just ringers off, whatever. I can see him. And now I'm up doing work, just sitting on the couch, you know, and I have my laptop and I'm doing work, but I can see him. And I see that he's laying on the couch. It was like an L couch. And I could see like the back of his head, you know, and like him laying there. And I keep watching, checking, watching, check. Like this ended up going on all night. Cause I was like, worried. So I'm checking him every hour, whatever all night. And I just stay up working and doing stuff till about four, when I was about five o' clock in the morning, I look again and I'm like. And now the lights, you know, like the light starting to come through the window that was behind him. And I'm. Now I'm thinking I'm just delirious because I'm up all night and worried and looking and. Oh, let me back up. Sorry. He told me after he said that he's going to take his life. Like, live on Instagram, everything. And he's like, in. Don't you dare call the police, because I'll shoot them all. So here's me, I've been doing this stuff for a long time. And like. But this is my friend, you know? I'm trying to think, all right, like, just let him do whatever. Then I'm like, fuck, I can't call. What if I call the police? Then I'm risking somebody else's life. Somebody else is gonna lose their family member because he's out of his mind right now and he wants to die. Suicide by cops. So I don't call the police, you know? Cause they've already been there. And now he's telling me he's gonna shoot them if they come. So that. But then he cut me off. Like, after that, no one could get in contact with him. So that's why I'm watching all night. Because he was saying some crazy shit. I'm watching all night. And I figured he was just gonna pass out and go to sleep. So the light's coming in and I. And you know, I can see, like, the back of his head. And then there's like the open L part of the.

B (92:45)

Couch.

A (92:45)

Yeah. You know, But I swear I see blood. But I think I'm delirious. So now I'm not very technical, whatever on things. So now it's like six, right? I'm still trying to see, but I don't know how to rewind or go back or do anything like that. So now my oldest daughter gets up, and my girls both now are trying to help me rewind this. Because they knew he was like, kookabird and stuff, right? Then they're trying to help me. So we rewind it. Because I'm like, I swear that I see blood on there. I'm telling my daughter. And so we rewind. She does whatever she did to rewind it. And it comes to a spot that I completely missed at, like, 10:30 at night. I completely missed. He was sitting, laying there on his back and he's got, like, his foot up and, like, over. And he's got his camera, like he's recording, and he's, like, kind of moving his foot. And then all of a sudden, I swear I see a puff of smoke. I'm like, wait. I go rewind. That was that smoke. And then we're watching closer and get to the part to where you could see, like, his head and everything. He picks up the gun in his left hand and shot himself. And we saw his entire back of his head blow off on a video. So I missed it, though. I was looking at him dead all night on that video, you know, like. And I kept. It kept going off. It kept alerting my phone and my email because I had to log in. But it was the TV that kept doing that. It wasn't him moving, I thought. But then when I got my daughter up, I'm like, I swear he's been in that same position. Like, just not. And then. And then rewinding. You could see where the gun was laying beforehand. Like, things that I missed. So I had a really, really, really hard time with that, with blaming myself and thinking, if I couldn't save my friend, I have no business trying to save anybody else now. And just after all the lives that I helped save, like, there was this one that I felt like I failed. Like, I felt like I failed, you know, where other people would say to me, like, you can. And when he. When he did it, he didn't even fucking do it right. You know what I mean? We had. I said to sit there, and. Because now the police are involved and all this kind of stuff. Like, I called the police. I remember falling to the ground and screaming like, no. And calling the police, and I just told them, like, be careful when you guys go in there. You know, I don't know what's going on. And then they were wanting. Asking me all kinds of questions because I'm the only one logged into this damn thing now. So then I. One of my attorney friends who's a homicide, or she's like a criminal attorney, she even stepped in because they're asking me to do all this. And I'm, like, still hysterical. They're asking me to do all this stuff. And she's like, I need to know if my client is a suspect. Just because I was on the line and no, I wasn't. They were like. They were fine. They were, like, actually very good. Like, the detectives, like, felt horrible that I had to, like, see that. And then my. My freaking kids saw.

B (95:55)

Too.

A (95:55)

Yeah. You know, but he was, like, choking and, like, just. It didn't happen right away. It didn't happen right away. So it was really horrible. It was like a, you know, a big Cleveland thing, and people just couldn't believe it. But he had been struggling for a really long time. But in my head, I probably was on the couch for seven, eight months, like, depressed. I mean, my. My oldest daughter finally moved out with my youngest or my oldest grandson. At that time, he was like three. And so it was just my younger daughter and I, like, I went. We got a. We got a condo right on the water, you know, in West Palm. And I thought, oh, maybe this will just be a good.

B (96:38)

Change.

A (96:39)

Yeah. But I couldn't. I couldn't. I was not able to pull myself out of it. Like, I. That's. That's how I ended up opening med spas and doing things like that, because I'm like, you know what? I'll make people beautiful. I'll make people feel better. Like.

B (96:49)

That. Less.

A (96:49)

Pressure. Yes, yes. And it's just such a hard thing, like, especially when it comes to drugs. They found so many drugs in there. They found. And then there was a big. A lot of fighting between the family, and they wanted to. Like, it was just a big, real big shit show. So that was 2017, 2018. I, like, even I ended up having a. I ended up having a hospital stay again, or I wasn't, because I have a blood clotting disorder, you know, from the blood clots in my lungs. The Xarelto that I was taking made me bleed internally. I was in intensive care. I was in intensive care for, like, two weeks and got got. We got through that. So in that depressed time. So we're like 2019 even now. I end up dating my husband, who I've known my whole life, which she's kind of pulling me out of it a little bit. Like, my kids were, like, getting worried, too, because I wouldn't go anywhere. I wouldn't do anything. I was on dating apps and dumb shit, and I'd make plans all the time, be like, no, sorry, I'm not coming. You know, last minute. I just could not pull myself out of it. And, you know, he kind of really stepped in. And then, you know, I had just. When I saw Dan again, I had. In 2019, I had just. We were gonna open. I was gonna open a med spa with a partner for the first time, like, where I was going to have a partner doing it, and this guy ends up. So this stuff happens. It happens with, like, David, all these things are happening all the same time. Then I get this partner that he's the money guy, he. And he wants us to be in Ohio to. So I. You know what? I just. That up totally with, I think David. Wait, David came after.

B (98:33)

That? Okay, that's.

A (98:34)

Okay. Okay, so David did come after that. So right before I was back in Florida with David, we were starting the med spa in Ohio. So I was gonna be there temporarily. He was paying for everything. He was paying for, like the agreement was he was gonna pay for the house that I rented at $5,000 a month, you know, for my kids and I to come back there. And he, he was gonna like live there too. That was like a finished basement and stuff. And he was like this guy who was like. Did playground equipment, you know, like the rubber pavements and all that kind of stuff. He did all that flooring kind of stuff. Stuff. Well, he. I had a brand new Jag. I had. Life was like going good. He's paying all that. Like he has to pay all that for our agreement for me to start this. We go through everything, get it, get it all set up, all the licensing, all the furniture, get the place that's in my name, the rental place for the spa. Then the day that the furniture's all getting delivered, he. I can't find him anywhere. Like no one can find him. I thought something fucking happened to him because I have PTSD recurring obviously from all the things that have happened. I thought something happened to him now. Drove a Bentley. All the things you can think of, like he's a big shower. He was in frickin jail. He was just arrested by the feds. Like, he was arrested by the feds. Why? I didn't know, I had no idea. And he's supposed to pay for all this shit, right? So he gets arrested by the feds for fraud. So all these people, church, big churches, everything that he's supposed to do playgrounds for, he's taking like 100,000 deposits all over the country and keeping it and pocketing it and not doing the work. So I'm tied to him, right? But even on the bank account, I only had him as like a signer, like to where he could have a card and stuff. All my shit gets frozen. Like everything I lost. So that happened actually right before the David stuff happened. And that's why I was like just gonna do a med spa on my own and do all those things. And I just lost everything. I wasn't responsible for anything, thank God. I mean, to where the Feds. Even that rental that I had on the water I told you about, they were, like, knocking on my big window when I was sitting at my table to question me about him, though. So that happened. So depressed. Depressed. I'm already depressed about that. But I'm like, I'll survive. I'll make it through this. Then David, then my friend kills himself. And then Dan comes along after that, and I'm like, all right, let's just really make these med spots work. That's what I want to do. Okay, so that's 2019. 2020. We get married two weeks before COVID Right? So I'm doing better. Like, things are better. We're, like, you know, doing well, you know, together, getting all this shit going. Now, when I was with the guy who was the detective, the undercover, he didn't want me to be around my family. They were, like, pulling shotguns on each other and wanting us to come and handle shit. And he's like, you need to. This is so toxic. Just enough. And I didn't want my kids to be around that anymore. So in 2011, I removed myself from my family completely. Finally, forgiveness did all the things, but I just couldn't do anymore. They were still a fucking train wreck. So I remove. I don't talk to any of them at this point from 2011. And so it's 2020. And now I have autoimmune disorder, too. So 2020 is going on, which really sucked. They were telling me that I was going to die if I got Covid and all kinds of crazy shit. We buy a class A RV to be able to travel between Florida and Ohio, because we had a clinic in Ohio, too. On our first trip in this rv, going to Ohio, I got a phone call from, like, one of my half brothers, ex girlfriends or whatever, saying that she's so sorry about my mom. And I was like, why? Why? What happened? And she's like, she died. She just died of COVID And she's like, and your stepdad is in there, too, on life support. They both died of COVID He died 10 days after her. So it was like. It was so surreal, I think, just because of what was going on during COVID And then I think, you know, as a daughter, I had always hoped that one day he's just gonna die or something's gonna happen and maybe she'll realize she has a daughter and these grandkids that she should be. Yeah. And I always felt bad for her. Like, as I got older, I felt bad. I think when she died, I Felt like, oh, my God, like she never got to live. Like she's always been in trauma. Like that's all she's ever known.

B (103:11)

Right. You remove yourself from the dog.

A (103:13)

Position. Yeah. You know, I took myself out of victim because I. I felt victim a lot for a really long time. And, you know. Cause we all just want to be seen. We want to be heard. We want to just. And you feel like nobody understands when that happened. It wasn't. And I cried a lot, which was weird, but it wasn't like, oh, like my mom. My mom just. It was like I cried for.

B (103:36)

Her. Yeah. It was a build.

A (103:38)

Up. Yeah. She was only 67, you know, like, I mean, he was 72, but he died 10 days after her. That led to a whole bunch not. I. I got away from my family. Remember, they're all still in their drunken drugging dysfunction craziness all this time, and it's still going on even into like 2020. So there was just a bunch of drama. And, you know, I'm the person that. I always forgot where I came from because I got out, I didn't become what they are. I was successful. Talk about that, though. But according to a lot of people, I was only successful because I got a shit ton of money. When my husband died, when my first husband died, I didn't get a.

B (104:19)

Dollar.

A (104:20)

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, people just. No, I worked my ass off and I did school for a long time, and I busted my ass. So that happened. You know, there wasn't like a funeral or anything. It was just like a. They had like a little thing there in Ohio, which I didn't go to because there was too much drama going on. I'm like, I don't want anything that you guys had. Yeah. I just did not. But I'm really kind of getting depressed too, because of COVID you know, I can't do anything. And you're just the same thing that everybody felt during COVID Yeah. So life keeps going and then trying to think of what the next trauma dump is. A lot of that's been recently and like the last couple years. It's really crazy that. And it's gonna sound really crazy like when I say it. So my mom dies, My stepdad dies. Right. In 2020. Then my one step brother died. And he. There was like, some stuff that I'm not gonna go into, but he was an abuser. The old, you know, one of the older ones. Then the partner that completely fucked me over and went to prison and then got out just Last year.

B (105:36)

He. The fraud.

A (105:37)

Guy. The fraud guy. Uh huh. He just drinking and driving his Lambo right into a building and it exploded. So he just died. Then last year, my other stepbrother dies, like the older one. And then the half brother that I have that was ran over by my dad and you know, is in prison, in and out all the time since. Oh my God, I can't even tell you. 1999, like in sexual predator registered, like in and out, in and out, in and out. So all these people are dying. Like, I had a really hard time with this. Like, like, why.

B (106:14)

Are. Like, when is it gonna end? It's like even.

A (106:16)

If. And they're all my abusers or people that have liked me over. So that was like messing with my mind, you know, Like, I don't know, just crazy. It's just.

B (106:28)

Crazy. And it's like it just never. It's never not something. It's never.

A (106:32)

Just. Just calm, just normal. As much as you want it to be. Well, even like with, you know, my podcast and dealing with trauma and listening, being, getting to be on the other side like you are, it took me, I wanted to do that for so long. And because of my own shame, embarrassment, like all the things that you can think of that you go through, I couldn't do it right. Like, I couldn't pull. Oh shit, I forgot a big one. See, there's just so much. If I don't. I should have freaking notes. My youngest daughter, kind of her boyfriend was from Manhattan, but he was a really talented musician. He lived with us, so all during COVID So he lived with us for three years, all during COVID everything. So we were all like stuck together. But we had a big house. They had like the other end of the house and we did okay with it. He had previously been a heroin addict, sober with us for three years. Never a slip, nothing. In 2022, we just celebrated his 22nd birthday. Like, everything. He goes back home to Manhattan, where he's from, and you know, the status of all that. His parents are big. His adoptive parents, they were big auction house founders. So they lived, you know, they had a lot of money. He goes back home just for a visit for the first time. And this is January, January of 2022, at a random out of nowhere, like we were out of town. He was with my daughter, decides he's gonna go home and visit. And he never would before. He would plan trips there, but they were so toxic to him. Like, he had tattoos. He like had a tattoo above his eye that said Awake, we're like, what if I tease him about it all? You know, just to them, like, he'd have to go around his mom and, like, cover it all and to even speak to her. So. And we were called those.

B (108:29)

People.

A (108:29)

Yeah. Because we weren't that high society. He goes home, and he's not even home that long. He's only supposed to be there for a week. He ends up being there a little longer. And at the same time, we're finding out that Kenna, that. That daughter that's his girlfriend might have cancer. Like, she. We found a lump in her throat. We just went to the hospital, and they're saying. They're like, it's a big lump, whatever. So she's like, well, come home. You know, you gotta come home. I. You know, I'm getting ready to go through all this. And he's like, no, I can't. I have to, like, work for my dad. So she knew that he was starting to use again. And May 2, he. We got a phone call that he died in their bathroom. We got a hot hit with Fentanyl. And, you know, two years ago, like, we just moved to Nashville and everything. And he's supposed to go there and, like, he just. He was getting ready to be signed by Capitol Record, like, yeah, it's horrible. One. One time. And then his mom tried to lie about it. His mom said that he fell and hit his head. And thankfully I have some good friends in some high places. And I got all the reports and things like that that she didn't even. Like, she didn't even fucking call the ambulance right away. She called the dad to then call the.

B (109:40)

Ambulance.

A (109:41)

Right. Didn't even do. What do you call it, obituary or anything. My daughter did it because she didn't want.

B (109:51)

Heist. She didn't want anybody to know.

A (109:53)

Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so we had that, too. So in. Losing Eli was like losing a son, because we were guiding him. We were the ones that had him in college. We were, you know.

B (110:04)

Just. I'm sure that hits home for you, too, because of everything you grew up around. It's like a. I don't want to say like a trigger, but it is, it.

A (110:12)

Is. It.

B (110:12)

Is. It hits. Gets close to.

A (110:14)

You.

B (110:14)

Yeah. And I think naturally, you probably want to help people because you know how it feels to be on that side, to experience.

A (110:22)

It. Well, and. And that's what I'm saying. As far as, like, my own podcast and doing things. We bought all the equipment, like, so we started in December, bought all the equipment, like, the year prior, and I just wasn't ready. Wasn't ready. And then after Eli died, you know, that's when I thought I was going to be ready. And I just. Just. I don't. I don't know. I just still wasn't. And then. Do you do, like, soul searching? You know, I'm like, this is what I'm supposed to do. Like, I went through all this for a.

B (110:49)

Reason.

A (110:49)

Yeah. And I just had to be more.

B (110:51)

Careful.

A (110:52)

Right.

B (110:52)

Of. You have to protect yourself, your.

A (110:55)

Energy. I. I honestly, like, when I had that happened with my friend, when he killed himself, I think I had, like, this godly complex. Like, I can save.

B (111:06)

Everybody.

A (111:07)

Yeah. I can. No one was ever there for me. I'm going to be there for people, and that's going to save them, you know? But it's just. That's not the way it.

B (111:14)

Is. No. And I think that you have the personality that you are very open, you're very forgiving. You aren't judgmental to others, because I think you know how it feels to be.

A (111:25)

Judged.

B (111:26)

Yeah. So I think that's why sometimes the people that are coming into your life aren't the best. I don't think it's.

A (111:31)

Intentional.

B (111:32)

Right. Of course, sometimes we do repeat what we're used to and, you know, bring that in. But at the same time, I think that, you know how. Like I said, you know how it feels to be on that other side of.

A (111:42)

Things.

B (111:42)

Yeah. So you're just like. You're trusting, like. And it's weird because you're trusting, but you're.

A (111:47)

Not. But I'm not.

B (111:47)

Right. And.

A (111:48)

It'S. But.

B (111:48)

Yeah. I think you want to see the best in things. I think you want things to be smooth and work out, and you've had this rocky life your whole.

A (111:58)

Life.

B (111:58)

Yeah. That's never ending. And it's like, you know, even with your family, even if there was this big chunk of time that you weren't. You guys weren't in each other's lives, there's a certain type of. There's a completely different type of grief and mourning when you lose that. Because then it. Like you said, it's like this whole other thing that you kind of now it's like you can cut somebody off but not accept yet. Like, okay, they might. You always thought in your head they might come back, she might come back. Like. But then you have to accept. Damn. Like, well, that's gone, you know? And it's.

A (112:30)

Just.

B (112:30)

Yeah. It's a different type of loss. It's a different Type of, you know, wrapping your head around something and accepting it and healing from it takes a long time to really sort through that in your own.

A (112:43)

Mind. Yeah. That's what I've been like struggling with a little bit. Just. Just so many.

B (112:49)

People.

A (112:50)

Yeah. It's just.

B (112:51)

Bizarre. It is like so you can. But you can handle it. And that might sound like. I'm not saying that in a way that's like you deserve it because.

A (113:00)

You.

B (113:01)

Right.

A (113:01)

No. Right. No. I.

B (113:02)

Know. You keep pushing through and that should tell yourself something about who you are. Like nobody can do anything to bring you.

A (113:10)

Down.

B (113:10)

Right. You've just about gone through it.

A (113:12)

All.

B (113:12)

Right. So don't forget that about yourself. That.

A (113:15)

Should. I try not to. And I think that's, you know, why. Why I've always been kind of like an.

B (113:21)

Overachiever.

A (113:21)

Yeah. It's never enough because. And people need to remember this too. Like when they come out of any kind of abusive situation or, you know, where people just aren't treating you right and they make you feel bad like that you're not seen. Because I think that I was always like, nope. My mom never looked at me like that or my dad, you know, I'm always like, hey, look at me. I'm here. Look what I did.

B (113:45)

Now.

A (113:46)

Yeah. And people get caught in that. Like they just want to be better. They want to be seen. And like it's. But it's never enough. And then you're always chasing.

B (113:54)

That.

A (113:54)

Yep. Like you have to learn that you are enough. Like it's cliche and silly as it sounds like you are enough. Like they need to know.

B (114:03)

That.

A (114:03)

Yeah. And just you have to keep.

B (114:05)

Going. Have.

A (114:06)

To.

B (114:07)

Yeah. But it's so easy not to, you know, and it's like. But that's why I say you have to remember to give yourself.

A (114:12)

Credit.

B (114:12)

Yeah. Here and.

A (114:13)

There'S.

B (114:13)

Right. But sometimes when you are just like a push through person, hard worker, you forget to like stop for a second and let yourself. I always tell people this. Let yourself have those days sometimes. You know, that's normal. We're human. That's natural. But I think that I definitely think and believe that you're somebody that I, I feel like it's like a balance. You can have something that you really love and that's peaceful and you can make people feel beautiful. But then you also have so much understanding and sympathy for people that go through things that. Because you've gone through so much of.

A (114:46)

It.

B (114:47)

Right. So it's like it only makes sense that you are able to hold some Sort of space for people to connect to you, for people to feel like that they aren't alone. And I am so glad that you waited till you felt ready. Because starting that too soon or starting it when you're not ready, that can just drain you.

A (115:02)

Again. Yeah, yeah.

B (115:03)

Yeah. You don't need.

A (115:04)

That. And as you know, like, sometimes when you do hear stories and you sit there for two hours and you listen to a story, you're kind of.

B (115:09)

Like. It is draining. I tell people all the time, my mom included. I'm like, listen, on filming days, it might not seem like a lot because I'm just, like, listening. But, like, it. Like to do anything else, like, you're taking it.

A (115:20)

In.

B (115:21)

Yeah. I just want to not have anything planned for the rest of the.

A (115:24)

Day.

B (115:24)

Right. Like, relax and decompress because it. It's heavy, you know, and there's. I never know. It's so interesting. I'm sure you've experienced this or you will if you haven't already. You never know. Like you were saying, even when you were telling your own story, how you're going to react. What is going to make you feel a certain type of.

A (115:39)

Way.

B (115:39)

Right. There's plenty of times I sit here and it's like I'm a wall. I can listen and I can.

A (115:45)

Feel.

B (115:46)

Right. But I don't. It doesn't affect me. Then there's other times certain. And I've realized it's mainly when it's about children, because children are so innocent. You know, like the part of when you said that your stepdad, he broke. It was him that broke. Like, it just like that. It just. It's so heartbreaking. It just makes you want to.

A (116:04)

Cry.

B (116:04)

Yeah. Because it's like you're taking something that means something to someone so innocent. And it's like, right then and there, and, you know, that'll stick with that with you. And it's so.

A (116:14)

Horrible.

B (116:15)

Yeah. It's just like. It's crazy to me that there are people that are so miserable that they want to just ruin people's.

A (116:22)

Lives.

B (116:23)

Yeah. Before they even have a chance to live.

A (116:24)

It. Exactly. That's. That's such a good point. So.

B (116:28)

True. It's.

A (116:29)

Terrible. Sad. So.

B (116:30)

Sad. Yeah. And there's a lot of those.

A (116:33)

Everywhere.

B (116:34)

Mm. But at this point in our society and world, you're lucky if you don't have something like what happens to happen. And that's.

A (116:43)

Sick. I know. It's scary. It's. Well, and, you know, our youngest daughter helps, you know, with all this stuff now, too. And she's seen it growing up. All the things that I've done for people, it. It makes her scared to have, like, we have three grandkids. But with my oldest daughter, she's now like, oh, God, do I even want to bring kids into this.

B (117:01)

World? Right. I've had that thought many.

A (117:04)

Times.

B (117:04)

Yeah. And I don't think I want to mention this as well, because I can. I can already assume that there's going to be. There's always comments about something, you.

A (117:12)

Know. Yeah. Oh.

B (117:13)

Yeah. But even about how you are so open with your daughters and how there isn't really doesn't seem like there's ever been much.

A (117:20)

Hidden.

B (117:21)

Right. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that when you shelter your kids so.

A (117:26)

Much. I agree.

B (117:27)

There'S. That's a problem, too. And I think that it's about communication. Obviously, we don't want to expose people or children to things and then not make sure they're all.

A (117:39)

Right.

B (117:39)

Right. But I think if you're open enough and you let them in and they know the reality of the world, it builds up a different type of wisdom and understanding about.

A (117:52)

Life.

B (117:52)

Right. Than just saying, oh, the world's a great.

A (117:55)

Place. Yeah. You know what I mean? Don't worry about.

B (117:57)

That.

A (117:57)

No. They're like, say.

B (117:58)

Anything.

A (117:59)

Right.

B (117:59)

Yeah. I think that it's. There's positives in that. I feel like I would be that way.

A (118:05)

Now. I can tell you, looking back, there's so many times I wish that I would have held things back, but I didn't really know any better, you know?

B (118:14)

Yeah. And, like, you needed them just as much as they needed.

A (118:18)

You.

B (118:18)

Yeah. And I think there's no such thing as a perfect.

A (118:21)

Parent.

B (118:21)

Right. And they teach us a lot. Going back to what I said in the beginning that I think a lot of people forget is just because a parent is your parent and they're older and they're supposed to be a, B and C, that doesn't mean that they're going to.

A (118:35)

Be.

B (118:35)

Right. That doesn't mean you're gonna. You know, you could be a perfect mother for 10 years and have one mistake that could take away the whole 10 good years. You know what I mean? Like, there is no.

A (118:45)

Template.

B (118:46)

Yeah. It's just you do what feels right and you just have to hope and pray that you raise a good.

A (118:52)

Kid.

B (118:52)

Yeah. And that they're.

A (118:54)

Saved. Yeah. Yeah. And they have amazing hearts, you know, like. And they're empathetic. I just wish they could have been sheltered from Some stuff. But I was not okay for a long time. And unfortunately. And I mean, I'll own that all day long, you know, I didn't have anybody to guide.

B (119:12)

That. Something good in.

A (119:13)

That.

B (119:13)

Yeah. Because I think that it's almost. In my opinion, it can kind of be, like, weird to grow up and then be told because then you kind of look at your parent, you're like, wait, how did I not know any of that went on? Or I feel like I don't even know.

A (119:28)

You.

B (119:28)

Right. In a way. Like, you don't. It's like, you know your parents so much, but you don't. So I almost feel like the fact that they saw you so, like, raw and going through these.

A (119:38)

Moments.

B (119:39)

Right. And now they see you, that's inspiring. That's real.

A (119:43)

Life. Well, I can give you an example. When. So in 2012. I'm trying to think. So. Kind of was 11, when she was 11 years old. I had always said that it was an accident when her dad died, when my husband died. Just an accident. Yeah. Not like that. He jumped out of the cab. She was so upset with me for so long because she heard somebody else talking and then heard. Then heard me telling someone else's story, like, on the phone. Like, she was, like, eavesdropping, she said, or whatever. And she was really upset with me that I didn't tell her the.

B (120:22)

Truth.

A (120:22)

Yeah. At 11, right.

B (120:25)

Yeah. Right. It's things to think.

A (120:27)

About.

B (120:27)

Yeah. And you think. Right. You never know. You think you're doing the right.

A (120:30)

Thing. It's like.

B (120:31)

Don'T. Yeah. You could.

A (120:32)

Lie. And there's definitely no handbook for trauma. There is life and motherhood or any of.

B (120:37)

It.

A (120:37)

Right.

B (120:37)

Yeah. So you can't beat yourself up. You can literally only do the best that you can.

A (120:40)

Do.

B (120:40)

Right. And then your podcast, are you posting every.

A (120:44)

Week? Yeah, we're doing, like, two a week now.

B (120:46)

Good. Good for you. And it's called beyond, beyond the Monsters.

A (120:49)

Okay. Yeah. And I can say, even with that, too, I was really afraid of it. And I'm not afraid of anything, you know, after all this, I was really afraid to, like, do it and be vulnerable in any way. But what it's done is I've, like, switched everything. We just did this big, beautiful build out in Brentwood, you know, for our aesthetics clinic. And I'm like, I like.

B (121:13)

It.

A (121:13)

Right. But that's not what I'm supposed to do. It's not where my heart is to where now I'm like, all right, we need to do this. We need to do That I want to have a farm in Tennessee where it's a ranch and we want to build so much now to where I want it to be a place where people can come with animals and heal. I love, like, trauma people, you know, I mean, it's gonna take a.

B (121:32)

While.

A (121:33)

Yeah. To happen.

B (121:33)

But. But it.

A (121:34)

Will. Yeah. And we've owned drug and alcohol rehabs, like, everything, but it's incredible. Yeah. But my heart is back where it always.

B (121:42)

Was.

A (121:43)

Yeah. That makes sense. But in a different way. I'm smarter right.

B (121:46)

Now. And I said, I think it is so important to have that balance for yourself. I think it's never good to box ourselves in. You know, we can have our focus in one or two places, but I think it's good to have, you know, a couple different things. It makes you feel too. Like I can do it.

A (122:01)

All.

B (122:02)

Yeah. You know, and I. I think it's incredible. And I mean, it's. It's amazing. And I think you need to write a book eventually that'll. You can add that to the goal.

A (122:12)

List. Tell my husband. He'll be like, where the hell are you going to get the time.

B (122:14)

Right? It'll just jotting things down, you know, and it comes. I think that's something that, like I said, you don't force it. You just let it flow. And when the time comes, it'll. You won't have to think about anything. I think it'll.

A (122:26)

Just.

B (122:27)

Right. Snowball into when it's supposed to.

A (122:29)

Happen. And I think I've always been afraid of this, but you made it so much.

B (122:32)

Easier.

A (122:33)

Good. Like, because I told you I went to another one. It just wasn't the right fit for me. And to tell, you know, because it's a lot of my story, but I think I was scared just because of all the shit people will say. But now. Now I'm like, there's nothing that you can say about me that I haven't already.

B (122:51)

Felt. Or 99 of those people, if not a hundred, that want to say horrible things have never gone.

A (122:57)

Through.

B (122:58)

Exactly. Even half of.

A (122:59)

Them.

B (122:59)

Yeah. So if you haven't gone through it, don't talk. Honestly, don't talk about it. Regardless, if you have nothing nice to.

A (123:04)

Say.

B (123:04)

Right. Don't say.

A (123:05)

It.

B (123:05)

Right. Never understood.

A (123:06)

That. Well, some people just want to be relevant, and that's the only thing that's.

B (123:09)

True. And they're miserable and, you know, they just want to. They want to be able to shed that on other people and be mean. But no, you did incredible. I'm so happy that, you know, to hear that you felt comfortable. Because that's the main thing for me. I want people to feel like you're in.

A (123:24)

Control.

B (123:25)

Yes. Completely can restart. You can take your seconds and just talk about whatever you.

A (123:30)

Feel. You make it.

B (123:32)

Easy. Okay, good. Yeah, that makes me feel good. I'm.

A (123:34)

Glad. That's.

B (123:35)

Huge.

A (123:35)

Yeah. And that's a lot for me because I'm usually kind.

B (123:37)

Of. Yeah. Because once again, it goes back to the trust thing, you know, why would you want.

A (123:42)

To. I think that's put all that out.

B (123:43)

There. Yeah. And that's your story. And I think that, you know, obviously you're sharing it on a public platform, but you want to make sure it's being shared in a space that's safe and it's not going to twist it or make it feel like it was like nobody directed it. You did. You are able to choose what direction you want to go in, what you want to include, what you don't.

A (124:06)

Like. It's.

B (124:06)

Right. It's all on your terms. And you are, I swear to you, you are an amazing.

A (124:10)

Storyteller. Thank you. So good. One thing I do want to say for people to remember, like, just it. Even though it gets easier and you deal and you find coping skills and you find all those things, you still will have moments when you feel like you can't do it. Like, I will tell. I'll just give you an example. When all that stuff happened around September 10th, 11th this year, you know, Charlie Kirk was shot. Everybody witnessed that. That poor girl, Karina. Karina, she was stabbed on the subway or whatever. And I. And then there was a school shooting. I was reeling so bad, like, from all that to where I felt like I was in the frickin twilight zone again. Like all the way back to where, you know, I did a school shooting before. Why does this stuff keep happening? Which that was back all the way back in.

B (125:01)

2012. You lose.

A (125:01)

Hope. Yeah, I lose hope. And I'm looking at that little girl that's like my little McKenna. And no one was helping her. Like, what the hell is going on in this world now? And then the whole thing with Charlie and the different sides and people talking shit about his widow and like.

B (125:16)

Whole and him and hit like.

A (125:18)

Right. Yeah. But I mean, even now talking shit about her because she's.

B (125:21)

Strong. Like, trust me, what is.

A (125:23)

Wrong? What is wrong? And we went to a medical conference. Like, that happened that week of September 10th, 11th, that, that following weekend. We had to be in Colorado for a medical conference thing. There were like, there Was like a rhinestone night. And two. Two different nights where everybody was, like, doing stuff, drinking and dinner. I couldn't even go. I was like, can we please.

B (125:45)

Just go back to the world where no, nothing you do is right. Like, if you post about him or if you say something about him. Oh, you don't care about the school shooting, but, like, what in your mind makes you. But if I posted about both, then I'm good. You know what I.

A (126:02)

Mean? It's just. If you're.

B (126:03)

Lucky. If you're lucky. But it's just like every death, every horrific event is.

A (126:08)

Horrible.

B (126:09)

Yes. You know, and the fact that these things happen and it only tears people further apart. And it can't just make us realize, like, we need to make a serious change. Like, let's not keep fighting and picking.

A (126:21)

Sides.

B (126:21)

Right. Or blaming or saying you're this or you're. Oh, my.

A (126:24)

Gosh. Yeah. Like with Charlie, how is there even a side? It's the fact that he's a man that got shot and killed in front of so many people. A son, a father, a.

B (126:34)

Husband. Just like he has his views, so do other.

A (126:37)

People. So does everybody.

B (126:39)

Know? That doesn't mean you should die. Like.

A (126:42)

Horrible. Shame on those people that would say, I don't give a who it was. I would.

B (126:47)

Never.

A (126:48)

No. Say.

B (126:49)

That. Well, maybe for the.

A (126:52)

Pedophile, it's.

B (126:55)

Like, well, we should be honest. Like, the thing is, though, is, like, why would you want. No, like, the problem is, which I don't think people realize, is even if you don't agree with somebody, if you are praising.

A (127:05)

Violence.

B (127:06)

Yes. On that person, then it's going to be praised. On innocent people. And that's not.

A (127:11)

Okay. And he was never.

B (127:13)

Malicious.

A (127:14)

No. Physically harmed.

B (127:15)

Anyone. Freedom of.

A (127:16)

Speech. Yes, that's it. You don't have to like.

B (127:19)

Him. No. No.

A (127:21)

Way. Oh, I can just keep going on this tangent. You know, I get.

B (127:26)

It. It's.

A (127:26)

Terrible.

B (127:27)

Yeah. But I will definitely. We have to. I'm gonna link all of your stuff, so anything that you want, you.

A (127:32)

Know.

B (127:32)

Yes. Resources, your personal things, send it over at.

A (127:36)

All. I'll just make sure I don't read all the comments. Don't you know what's so hard for.

B (127:40)

Me? Let it take it away. That's the thing. I. I had to stop. This podcast isn't even about.

A (127:45)

Me.

B (127:45)

Yeah. And anytime I'll see a couple comments. It's like, she talks about too much. I miss when she let the guests talk. She doesn't talk enough. Well, what is the point? And I'm like, the point is.

A (127:54)

I. We're having a conversation, but also.

B (127:56)

The point is that they can talk. That you. That it's getting views so people can hear.

A (128:00)

It.

B (128:00)

Yes. You know, and it's like, even you would think by now, because I've been on social media for a while, that that wouldn't bother me, and it usually doesn't. But there's times where I'm like, I never want to change how I sit down right here because I know that the. The less I do, the better, because it's not about me, it's about you.

A (128:18)

Guys.

B (128:18)

Right. You know, and if I read that, I'll get in my head, and then instead of being focused on just sitting here and listening, I'm thinking, well, should.

A (128:26)

I. Should I say.

B (128:27)

Something? Should I.

A (128:27)

Not?

B (128:28)

Yeah. And screw.

A (128:28)

That. See, that's me, too. They'll be like, oh, yeah. She says, like, I'm acknowledging, like, oh, like what? I'm not even, like, saying.

B (128:36)

Anything. No, she.

A (128:37)

Right.

B (128:38)

Yeah. Always.

A (128:39)

Something.

B (128:40)

Yeah. Social. I always say social media has the pros and the cons. It's amazing for things like this, where you can just. Just connect with people and the people that appreciate it and what it does for you and just being able to share everything or a lot of the things, you know? But then it's that side of it that it's just, like, never. I do not get.

A (128:58)

It. Yeah, I don't either. I have a really hard time. Not when they. People are talking.

B (129:02)

About.

A (129:03)

Right. I'm like, right here, mother. And then I'm like, all.

B (129:06)

Right. Right. Because it doesn't matter what you.

A (129:09)

Say.

B (129:09)

Right? That's what they want. They want a.

A (129:11)

Reaction.

B (129:11)

Yep. You can't give it. You're.

A (129:13)

Amazing. Thank you for having me. Of.

B (129:15)

Course. Thank you. Seriously, thank you for.