Dev (3:12)

Was like when you would get home, the punishment.

Kelly (3:14)

Okay, yeah. Like, most of the times it was like. I remember. I can't. I can't say, like, when My first memory of was, like, getting, like, beaten at home, but, like, I just know that most of the time when. If I. If I'm in trouble, you know, I'm gonna get a spanking, you know, from my mom. And just a little bit more background. When my dad. I would say most of elementary school, he was deployed. I think he deployed kindergarten. He was gone for, like, first grade. And I think his. He. He was gone for most of third grade. And my sister, she was born when I was in the third year, like, in September. And then right. Was born. She left. But, like, basically it was me, really. Me and my mom growing up. Most of the time, it really. It really was just me and her. So I felt like we just kind of grew up together. But again, like, the. The punishments were just. It was just too extreme. I feel like something I told you, like, for example, like, I can't tell you, like, what exactly I did to receive that punishment, but I know like, multiple times. Like, again, I would, you know, we would go in her closet and it probably. That closet maybe would be like, how long this is? Maybe felt confined. But yeah, she would put on the music again like a Marvin Gayes got to give it up. The extended version, that's like, I want to say at least 15 minutes, maybe 16. And she would, like spank me the entire time. And we're not talking like soft hits. I mean, like, it was. It was bad. Like, I remember screaming. It felt like hours, but I mean, it was minutes. But still like 20 minutes. Just nothing but, like, getting hit, you know, she would talk to me kind of in between, like. Or like yelling. She'd be yelling at me, I told you not to do this. You know, like, just kind of berating me right there. Nothing. Like she wasn't, like, disrespecting who I was, at least verbally, you know, but I just know she was here. Yeah, it was just. It was just too much. I remember just like screaming and like, hoping that, like, honestly, I was thinking, like, how do neighbors not, like, hear me screaming and stuff like that? And it was just. It was really difficult. Again, like, I would get. It wasn't often that I was in the closet, but, you know, we were in there. And it wasn't just to, like, Marvin Gaye. There was, I think there was some Beyonce song. I couldn't tell you what it was.

Dev (5:25)

Do you think she played the music to, like, drown you out?

Kelly (5:28)

I think so. Because, I mean, because, I mean, if you. If you heard me, if anyone heard that, you know, they'd be concerned. You know, the house we lived in, it wasn't a two story house, had like a few bedrooms, I would say. I guess her closet was like in the back of the house kind of. So. But also there was times where I wasn't in the closet getting beat, and that was just happening. But it wasn't always just me getting spankings, getting disciplined. I think other times there. There were definitely different forms. Sometimes my mom would, like, make me write sentences. I think some of them would be like, you know, I will not lie to my parents. My mom used to say, like, kelly, you lie for, like, dumb shit. And I can't even, like, remember what I was doing. I don't remember, like, stealing. It might have been like, did I do a chore? Or, like, did I not do something? I hate that. I can't remember what it was, but I just. I remember the punishment, right? So I remember one summer. I can't. I don't remember how old I was. I want to say I was definitely in elementary school, but in one summer I wrote like probably like 2,500 sentences. I think every day it was just writing, writing sentences all day. Sometimes I would get to sit down and write the sentences. But like one time I would have to like, I was in like the kitchen and I would just. You'd be like, stand up with one foot, like, you know, like 90 degree angle. Stand up all day and like write the sentences. There was times where I had to eat just like that. You know, though my only breaks were like, I guess using the bathroom pretty much, you know, I don't. She. I never got breaks from that. Like my solitude would be in the bathroom. And then, you know, of course when I go to. I try to. I would try to go to bed early, you know, oh, I'm tired. There was also times where I wasn't writing sentences. It was just. There was a corner, I remember. Is the corner like at the bathroom, in between, like near her bedroom? Literally just like I got a corner like that, put my head in the corner and just stand like that all day. Like up all day. Like again, my only breaks would be eating. Sometimes I would get to sit down and sometimes not.

Dev (7:26)

I have a couple quick questions.

Kelly (7:28)

Yeah.

Dev (7:29)

One, Would she ever do these things, these forms of punishment when your dad was home or was it worse when he was away?

Kelly (7:38)

I think, I think it was worse when he was away. I wish, I wish it was. It was easier to remember. But I feel like a lot of the time it really was just me and him or, excuse me and her.

Dev (7:49)

Yeah.

Kelly (7:49)

You know, even if he's not deployed, you know, he's in the military, so he's gone from sun up and he'll come back maybe. I think he come around five or six, but I still think that he was in, in the home. And we'll get to it later. But there was times where other things were going on. He was in the home, you know, he, he retired when I was in the fifth grade. So there was still, you know, there's much, much more to come. But like, yeah, it was just. It was crazy. I would, I would be able to talk to my dad a few times I forgot like the platform, but this was like maybe once a week it would be on Skype or we'd be like chatting. But I'm not talking to him about what's going on. You know, I'm just like, hey, you know, I just know my dad somewhere. Yeah, I know he's Somewhere dangerous. And I just want to be able to talk to him.

Dev (8:28)

Right. And then you said you have one sister.

Kelly (8:31)

Oh, okay. So I have, I have two siblings. My sister, she's 15 now. And then I have a younger brother, he's four. He was born in. Wow. In 2020. So that was, that was new.

Dev (8:41)

Okay.

Kelly (8:42)

And then I have two older brothers from my dad's previous marriage.

Dev (8:46)

I was going to ask you, was the abuse mainly focused? Is that, is it okay to call it that?

Kelly (8:50)

Yes, yes.

Dev (8:52)

I just make sure.

Kelly (8:52)

Yeah.

Dev (8:54)

Was that mainly just done to you?

Kelly (8:57)

Yes. My sister, My sister, she's autistic. Right. She doesn't, I wouldn't say she's like, she can be. She's really independent. She's never had like anyone one on one with her.

Dev (9:08)

Okay.

Kelly (9:09)

You know, but I think honestly as a kid I used to, I think part of me was kind of like not jealous or mad but like she, she never got anything close to what I got. And like as I'm older now, I would, I don't want that for her. No one, no one deserves.

Dev (9:24)

When you're younger, you're. It's confusing. I feel like, to understand like, I feel like too. It's easy as a child to blame yourself and be like, what's wrong with me? Like, am so bad.

Kelly (9:33)

Yeah, 100%. And it would. I remember my mom, she used to get mad at me just because, you know, it's so funny looking back now. She would like make it a point to say like when, when I would, when I would get in trouble, my mom would hit me. I think, I think she would hit me in front of her or at least like berate me in front of her, you know, if she's going off on me. But when solely knew I was about to get in trouble, she, she would cry. My sister would cry like, and my mom would point that out. She's like, you know, your sister's like crying when you get in trouble when she sees that, but you can't like, I think she wanted me to be there for her in some type of way. And I wasn't saying like, I wasn't consoling her. But like when my mom, if so if, if she got in trouble, it was again, it wasn't like crazy, but I would kind of just remove myself from that situation in a way. But. And even like my brother now he's, he's four, he doesn't nothing like that. And, and if I, if I saw anything like that. No, because like I can't, I Remember when my brother was born? Like, I just. At first. When I first found out my mom was pregnant, I was mad. I was really mad. And part of it was just, like, looking back, I kind of wanted a way to, like, distance myself from my family in some way. But, like, you know, I can't be away from my sister for too long, right? But, like, okay, here's a younger brother. I'm gonna have to, like, yeah, be there in some way. I'm gonna have to interact with my parents. I remember one of my first, like, big punishments, I think, at least, like, for what I did. So, like, what I did, right? In the first grade, my dad was gone. And so in our classroom, we had, like, two desktops, right? It was kind of like a small library. People would go there to take their, like, AR tests. And then if you wanted to read. And so there was, like, a bookshelf, and people could, like, lean your backs up against it and read there. And, you know, I would. I love to read, right? So I'd be there as a kid, and I don't. I don't know how it started. I can't remember. But this kid, he. Again, I don't. I can't remember, like, how it. Just how he initiated, basically. He was like, you know, if you don't, like, touch me or let me touch you, we. I'm gonna tell your mom. I'm gonna tell the teacher. And in my head, I'm like, well, my mom's already crazy, right? So I'm not gonna. I'm not trying to get punished. So, like, that kind of went on for maybe a couple months, I think. I mean, I don't. I don't know how long that went on. I mean, I know at one point we had a new student, and he was trying to, like, include him on that, and I was just like, dude, if you do that, like, it's. It's all. It's. It's. It's. We have to keep between ourselves, right? So imagine, like, bringing someone else to it. So I wasn't really. I was kind of against that. But, like, it's still. And even as a kid, like, what are you doing? You know, like, I shouldn't. I was like, what, six, maybe seven years old. So it was just like, well, this is happening. And then I remember one time, another new student, he tried to do. I think he saw something and I didn't. I remember one time we went outside for, like, recess, and he was telling us, like, I'm gonna tell the teacher what you guys are doing. And he would, like, run up to the teacher. He's like, miss so and so Kelly and Kevin. And then they would. He would run. And then. So it's just us, like, chasing him. And from a distance, it's just like the other kids are like, well, what? Why are they chasing? So the next thing you know, the entire class is just, like, running after him. So no one knows what's, like, going on. So of course the teacher's like, well, why are you guys, like, running from each other? Like, what's going on? So I guess, you know, he tells her. And then I remember my mom picked me up from school that day, and I remember the teacher, like, told her what happened, but I wasn't there. Like, they were talking, and I just covered my ears. I just didn't want. I didn't want to witness my mom, like, hearing that. I remember that drive home. That was like a. Like, a really long drive home. Like, it was only, like, maybe 20 minutes. And, like, she didn't say anything until right before we got in the neighborhood. All she said was like, you know, when you get inside, she was like, when you get in the garage, you need to, like, take your clothes off and meet me in the closet. And I don't remember if I was, like, fully undressed, but I know, like, I didn't have, like, any bottoms on. And I mean, she. She. She would me for that. And I remember thinking, like, that wasn't, like. I didn't know what to call that, but part of me was like, that's. I don't feel like I should be punished for this. I don't really know. I don't even remember having, like, a full conversation about it. And again, maybe we did, but I can't remember. But, like, I remember the belt landed a few times on my private area. I don't remember if it was on purpose, if it was on accident, but I know that happened. And it was just. That's, like, one of, like, the first, like, significant, like, punishments I can, like, remember. It was just, like. It just didn't feel right. So that's just one thing.

Dev (14:23)

And I think, too, you know, it's so sad because in moments like that, that's when you should be concerned in talking to your child about what's going on, not punishing them for.

Kelly (14:37)

It.

Dev (14:37)

You know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's heartbreaking because I feel like it makes you. You know, in a situation like that, especially when you're so young, the best thing you can do is Talk about it, you know, so that you. I mean, you're still so young at that age, but so that you can somewhat understand and know what, like, you're taught, what's right, what's wrong. And. Because when you're that age, it's just so confusing.

Kelly (14:59)

You don't.

Dev (14:59)

It feels wrong, but you don't know really know what to call it or what's going on.

Kelly (15:03)

Yeah.

Dev (15:04)

You know, and then I think getting punished for it once again, it kind of goes back to what I said of just feeling like it's. Everything's just your fault.

Kelly (15:11)

Exactly. And then, like, I. My mom, I'm pretty sure she gave me, like, a talk like that, like, going into elementary school, right? Like, you know, like, strange stranger danger, you know, no one should be touching you here. But, like, as a kid, you know, they tell you about adults. They don't tell you if another kid is what to do in that situation. I think that happens a lot more than we think. And it just doesn't get talked about. It's either, like, brushed under the rug or, you know, some people just don't talk about it at all because it's just like.

Dev (15:38)

Oh, just kids being kid.

Kelly (15:39)

Yeah, exactly. And I was just like, I don't. I think that's still considered, like, molestation. Like, I.

Dev (15:44)

100%.

Kelly (15:45)

Yeah. And like, I didn't.

Dev (15:46)

You were threatened, too. Exactly.

Kelly (15:48)

So, yeah. And like, I didn't really talk about that. Like, I went to therapy for the first time, I think, like, in 2022, and we. We talked about it, but I really had to, like, accept that, like, oh, that happened. And it's just like. But I also think too, like, you know, what was that kid seeing, you know, for him to. Because you don't just. You don't just do that.

Dev (16:07)

Yeah.

Kelly (16:07)

Yeah. And I think the. The teacher kind of, like, failed in some way because no one was. There was no, like, investigation done. It was just like, the teacher told my mom something I left out, too. It's funny, right? When the teacher's like, well, we're going to tell your parents, you know, and the kid was like, my mom already knows. What? You ain't got to tell her. And in my head I was like, that's a good idea. Right? Just because, like, I thought she believed the lie, but, like, she didn't. But I don't. Like, I don't remember talking to him about it afterwards. I know that we weren't. The rule was, like, they don't need to interact. It was like we were in the Same class, but, like, they don't need to interact at all. And we didn't. Like, we didn't sit next to each other. We didn't. We didn't talk to each other. And that. That was pretty much just like the rule for, like, the rest of the school year. And I don't know, like, from when, like, it got found out and how much longer was left during the school year. But. Yeah, that's just like. That's just like, one thing, right, is we got. We have so much more to go, unfortunately. Yeah. I think my. I think my. My beatings were worse through elementary school. And again, I can't. I feel like. I feel like I was always in trouble as kid. That's why it's so hard. I can't, like, I can't remember, like, pinpoint. Yeah. When did, like, why did all this start happening? But I would. If I got in trouble. I feel like most of it was at school or like my chores weren't done. And like, I remember the summer of going to second grade. That was when my mom introduced me, like, okay, you're gonna clean the house. And I remember I was. I was scrubbing baseboards with, like, a sponge, you know, in a bucket, you know, just. I kept the house clean. Like, I would. I would do that. I would dust the windows, I would dust the blinds, dust the fans. I'm cleaning. We had the first house. We had two bathrooms. So, you know, I'm cleaning those. I'm vacuuming everywhere. Like, that house was spotless, you know? Like, it was. It was a lot. And I guess I don't know if my mom was trying to, like, instill in me, like, this is how you keep, like, your. Your area clean. I don't know if it was like, some type of discipline in a way, but what's so funny now, like, I. I don't clean how I used to. 1000%. I don't do it. I don't do it like that. It made. It made me, like, hate doing stuff like that. But I still clean up my mess, you know? But yeah, just again, getting. If something wasn't done the right way, just do it all over again. I remember even introducing me to. To ironing, you know, and there's nothing wrong with, like, making sure you're, like, presented correctly, right? But like, for the week, like, on the weekend, I would iron on my clothes out for the week and show them to my mom, you know, if they weren't. If something was wrinkled, do it all over again. And to me, some of the stuff looked fine, but I don't know. But. And it's hard to like. Like, I don't even know if complaining about that is like. I don't know if the words Valiant.

Dev (18:59)

I don't think it's a complaint. I think it's just like another example of just like, how things that, like, those are not things that should matter. You know what I mean? Especially when you're a child. Like, it's one thing to teach a child something, but, like.

Kelly (19:15)

You shouldn't get.

Dev (19:15)

In trouble for anything like that.

Kelly (19:17)

Yeah.

Dev (19:17)

Yeah. So. And that's the thing too, you know, I. I want to mention too really quick in case I forget by the end, but, you know, I feel like there are a lot of people that come on here and it's kind of this full circle healing journey, you know, where it's like they come and they tell these traumatic parts of their life, but now they're in a place where they're healed and they're doing so much better. And, you know, healing's not linear.

Kelly (19:40)

Yeah.

Dev (19:41)

And I think that there's no right or wrong time to tell your story.

Kelly (19:45)

Yes.

Dev (19:46)

You know, just because you're not. Maybe you're not at the healing place that you plan to be for yourself.

Kelly (19:51)

Yes.

Dev (19:51)

Eventually. Doesn't mean that it's the wrong time to share your story. I just wanted you to know that, like, you know, like, I think and there's just like, there's people that probably like to listen to the full circle of, you know, somebody coming out on the other end of things. There's still a lot of people that are very much still in the trauma that they're dealing with. And I think that makes you and your story so relatable as well.

Kelly (20:14)

Yeah.

Dev (20:14)

So I just wanted to mention that.

Kelly (20:16)

Thank you for saying that. Of course, sometimes alternatives. Another alternative. You know, my mom, if she didn't want to, like, what me, you know, like, I would be outside, like, picking the weeds. And my dad, he had this tool where it had, like, spikes and you could, like, jab it in there. And then there's like a part where you press your foot. It's like metal, and you, like, push it down and made it. Picking weed so much easier. She's like, no, you don't get to use that. So, like, I would have to. You know, it's summertime, I'm out there, and again, I can't. I can't remember. I wish I could, like, remember, like, what I did to, like, do that, but I don't think it was anything too significant. I think I can say that. Especially summertime, I'm not in school, so what am I really doing to, like, get in trouble again? Elementary school was, like, just a lot of. I got. I got spanked a lot. It just happened. Like, sometimes I think I remember one time, again, don't know what I did, but, like, she hit me with the belt, and I think the buckle, like, it flew out and, like, it. It hit me on the head. I remember, like, in that moment saying, like, oh, my God, like, that. That hit me, right? And I know I don't. I might have been the third, fourth grade. I'm not sure, but I know enough like that that could. That could hurt someone. That could. It could kill someone. I don't know. You hit me hard enough. You know, I. I knew it was wrong, and she didn't care. She was like, so you think I care? I don't care. That hit you there? And I was like, well, okay, right. I remember as a kid, my mom, like, I love wearing, you see, shorts and T shirts. I like wearing comfortable clothes. That's all I really need. And I remember. I feel like growing up, I felt like a doll a lot. Like, remember, my mom would have me dressed up all the time. Whether it's, like, in a dress, a skirt, some, like, really nice outfit. And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not complaining. Like, my mom, my parents, I'll say this, they. They provided so much for me. I've never. I've never gone hungry. I've never. I've never known what it's like to go without at all. I've never experienced anything like that. My parents, they. I wouldn't say they gave me everything I wanted for, but, like, they made sure I had good clothes, good shoes, like, good everything. I was never, like, uncomfortable in, like, in a sense like that. But, like, I hated the way my mom used to dress me as a kid.

Dev (22:23)

Like, it wasn't you.

Kelly (22:25)

No, it wasn't. I would tell her that and, like, I'd rather just wear this. I remember, like, out in my head, I was like, why am I so dressed up on, like, a random Tuesday? Like, I'm just trying to. When I would go outside and play, like, I'm. I'm playing. I was playing football with the boys. Like, I was out there. Like, people would want me on their team to play with them. I was. I was trying to play. I'm a kid. And the times, you know, I didn't wear stuff like that, you know, of course I was most comfortable. But I remember it felt like my mom didn't want me to do, like, anything adjacent, like, with anything considered boy. Like, there's. There's been multiple occasions where, like. Well, I'll just say this. I remember one time, my mom, she. I don't know if she had to go to school or work or some appointment, but she left me with one of her friends and her son, right? And we went to daycare together. We were cool. And, you know, she took us out, we played with him, we went shopping, went to, like, a Roses or something. And she's like, you know, pick out whatever toy you want. And I got, like, some type of action figure. Something. Something that was considered, like, a boy toy, right? And, you know, I opened it, played with it until mom got back. And then once the. Once you saw it, she took it. I think she made her return it, or my mom threw it away. And that has happened on multiple occasions, like, so many times. I remember in the second grade, you know how they do, like, the book fair, and they'll let the kids, like, go through it, whatever. And my mom, she told me, she was like, you know, I will take you shopping for the book fair after school. But they took us during class, and I had, like, I like, some chum change in my pocket. I don't even think it was the money that she planned on using. And. Well, it might have been. I was able to buy, like, two books. I got, like, a book about. I think I got two books about, like, cars or something. And I didn't tell her about it, so I just left the books in my backpack. And I remember waking up the next morning, I'm like, they're gone. I'm like, it hasn't even been 24 hours. And I remember she was so mad, and she was like, no one. You can't be buying this stuff. Y' all was supposed to. You were supposed to go with me. And so she made. I remember that. I think that same day, she, like, made me return those books. And I had to get, like, these two. I can't remember the name of them, but it was about this girl who, like, she was in the fourth grade. I think she just moved and she wanted a cat so bad. It was so funny. But, like, this. Not something I would read, not something I related to. Yeah, it's just like, I don't care about this. I wasn't like, you couldn't have anything that you like.

Dev (24:50)

You couldn't be you. You couldn't have the things that you liked. It was like she was controlling.

Kelly (24:56)

Yeah.

Dev (24:57)

Your personality, you know, like all of that stuff.

Kelly (25:00)

Yeah, she just. She just hated. She hated me doing anything that wasn't feminine. Honestly, it was. She. She. My hair. You see how it is now. My hair used to be so long. Like, pass my bottom. Maybe I'll get to show you guys after. But, like, my hair was so long and, like, I feel like she put a lot of value. I feel like my femininity was tied to my hair a lot. And it's. I mean, you. You got hair. It's a lot. It's a lot to manage. You know, it's hot outside and no one's trying to do all that. And it just, like, I hated the way my hair felt on me. I remember, like, in order for my hair to, like, look good, you know, had to wet it all the way, whatever, moisturize it. And I remember just, like, being so stiff, like, walking around, going to school or wherever I was like that. I just. People. People loved my hair. I always got so much. So many compliments on my hair. Right. And I just. I didn't hate it, but it was just, like, I didn't feel me all the way when it was out. One of my friends, I remember in the third grade, he had to. He had to move suddenly. His family's in the military. He had to go all the way to California. And I remember he gave me and, like, some of his other. Our other friends, like, toys, just, like, remember him. But I think he gave me, like, a stormtrooper. And my mom took that. She took it.

Dev (26:11)

Yeah.

Kelly (26:12)

I'm like, this. My friend just gave it to me, and I'm not going to see him again, so just anything that would make you happy. You were just stripped off? Pretty much. Yeah. Like, and I don't know why she wouldn't just want to, like, you know, see me just be happy, like, and thrive and the things I wanted to do. Um, my mom, she put me in cheerleading. She says three, but, like, that isn't. I can't imagine just being three or three years old, you know, doing cheer. But that's what she says was three or four. And I did that for about. I want to say from, like, then I think I stopped third grade. And, you know, I hated the ritual of, like, getting ready for, like. For competitions, at least. Like, they had this full glam. And I'm just, like. I remember terrible. It is. I'm almost crying. Like, I hated. We had this. This with a sparkly glitter. I just, like, Hated the way it felt when you put it on because it's, like, wet. And I would have to, like, I would lay down and my mom would be, like, above me. It wasn't like, she wasn't hurting me in this process. I just know I hated it. I think, like, I just have to hold on to her and, like, just try not to cry when that was getting done. But even though cheer. I mean, cheer was crazy just because, like, some of the coaches were, like, low key, verbally abusive. My friend has to, like, remind me of, like, like, she said that they were throwing water bottles at us when we were flying. And I don't. I don't remember getting water bottles thrown at me, but, I mean, they were. They were yelling at us, you know, they were crazy. And I just. I wanted to play basketball. Like, I. I think I just kept begging her to play. She finally let me did it. I played my first team, like, in the second grade, and that was fun. I was, like, glad she really let me. And then she let me. I think she was a cheer mom. That's what made her the decision to, like, let me leave, because she was. She got to see the behind the scenes and, like, how the coaches treated us. And she was like, okay, like, this is a lot. I remember one time during competition, like, part of my routine was, like, to do, like, a double back handspring, and I always nailed it. But one time, my hair, it got in the way. So, like, I said, the first flip, it was just. It was wrong. And then I should have. The coaches were mad, like, you should have just stopped after the first one. But I'm like, you know, it's so routine. Of course I'm gonna do the second. But they, like, they chewed me out. And I'm like, I'm like 8 years old, maybe 7. They're like. They're, like, cussing me out. And mom was like, okay, if you want to stop, you can stop. And I was like, yeah, let's. Let's cut this. So I guess we can. We can. We can. We can get out of elementary. Out of elementary school now. But when middle school, I had, like, moved to elementary school. You're with the same people, you know, all five years. And so me going to a different school, it was just kind of different. But I was like, I was learning, learning to adapt. And sixth grade, I don't remember. I don't remember getting in a lot of trouble. Sixth grade, I don't remember getting. I don't know if I got any spankings. Then seventh grade. I don't. I think. I think because that, because, you know, when I went to seventh grade, I had to move to a different school, and that's where I met my girlfriend. But yeah, so I just knew.

Dev (29:11)

You guys met in seventh grade.

Kelly (29:13)

Well, we. We met in eighth grade, but we weren't even friends like that. And we. And I will definitely touch more about it during this. But yeah, she. Like, we weren't. We weren't cool like that in middle school. Not yet. Not yet. But I just thought, like, I'm coming to. I'm coming to a new school. So it's like, I need to. My mom told me this is the chance to, like, re clean slate. And one thing she brought up too, which is funny, she was like, aren't you glad that stuff that happened in first grade didn't happen, like, in middle school? Because more people can, like, talk about it or it'll be more remembered. And I'm like, I guess it was weird that she brought that up at that time. But I was like, yeah, I guess you're right. You know, clean slate. So I don't remember, like, getting. I did my best to not, like, get in trouble, at least, like, at school. And there were a few times where I was talking. Well, no, no, there was one example in seventh grade, I think, my English teacher. I was probably talking in class. And she's like, one thing. My. My mom. My mom was really involved, like, in school. Like, she. She cared. She does a lot more than some. Some parents do these days anyway. But my day. Or she would tell the teacher, you know, if you need to, don't hesitate to email me. You can email me anytime. If Kelly's acting up, you know, I'll. I'll be there, whatever. And yeah, I remember just one time, like, talking. The teacher's like, mom, she's. She's emailing my mom in the middle of the class. I'm, like, standing at her desk, and I'm like, I'm probably 13, maybe 12, 13. I'm like, crying. I'm like, please don't. Like, I'm like, begging her not to. And I don't know, I feel like as a teacher, like, I don't know if she just saw, like, okay, Kelly's just in trouble. And she's like, she don't want to get in trouble. And I'm like, if someone's like that distraught at that age. Yeah, like, maybe you shouldn't. Or maybe just. Just like that teacher never, like, tried to talk to me about, like, Anything. I feel like if I was a teacher, I would, like, try to make sure the kid's okay or, like, get a sense of what's going on. Because, again, like, kids that are, like, acting out, there's usually a reason for that, right? So it's like, you'd want at least, like, let's get to the root of the problem, or, what can I do to make it easier? I don't know, but I just. I didn't like the way she handled that. I think I got a spanking, but I really. Again, I can't remember, but I just. I. It wasn't good. I just. I don't remember feeling good, but then. Were you gonna say something?

Dev (31:32)

No.

Kelly (31:33)

You're good. My name is Sarah Turney. I spent years fighting for justice for my missing sister, Alyssa Turney, before an arrest was finally made in her case.

Dev (31:42)

After nearly 20 years.

Kelly (31:45)

But after my experience with the media.

Dev (31:47)

Law enforcement, and the court system, I.

Kelly (31:49)

Knew I couldn't stop with Alyssa's case.

Dev (31:52)

I know what it's like to fight.

Kelly (31:53)

For media attention, for answers, and for justice. After I stopped telling my sister's story, I knew I wanted to help as many other victims, survivors, and families as I could. On my podcast, Voices for Justice, I provide unique insight into these tragic cases because I know what it's like to not just listen to these stories, but to live them, and more importantly, how to help them by being a true voice for justice. Listen to Voices for Justice in your favorite podcast player today. You can be so much more than just a passive consumer of true crime. You have the power to help. I think, like, the next, like, another, like, severe punishment, I remember was in eighth grade. So this is kind of how we. How we met. Eighth grade, you know, lunch table. I would trade lunches with her and her friends sometimes. Like, it was almost every day. Like, we had something to trade, right? And I remember one day, Jasmine didn't. She said she didn't. And it was just odd because I was like, we always have something. And so I remember after lunch, you know, she left her lunchbox and, like, the next class that I would go into. And so I. I don't know. I was just over there, and I saw, like, a big. It was like a full box of, like. Was it fudge? Hot fudge. Like, hot fudge sundae pop tarts. And they were like, at least like, those are good. It was good. Yeah. I. I remember. I saw it. I took a pack and I gave it to, like. I was like, is my other friends. Y'. All want some?

Dev (33:29)

Yeah.

Kelly (33:30)

And you know, I remember I ate, I ate that pack like as soon as we got in line to go to the next class. And then not even five minutes into like the last class today, the class, the teacher, that class she was in, she comes and she like swings open the door, she's like, who ate Jasmine's Pop Tarts? Who stole their Pop Tarts? And I'm like, oh, no. And so then of course I didn't say anything at the time. And then I remember basketball tryouts or like warm ups, like workouts were going on. So I get, go to the gym, I change, get in the gym. And then I see like the teachers and like my coach and they're like, what do you think we're about to ask? You know, I was like, yeah, I stole the Pop Tarts. Yeah, I did it. And so we were given like ISS for like a week. But my mom, you know, of course she finds out. I, I get in trouble. And so she goes to Walmart and gets a box of like, like the Great Value brand cinnamon flavored pop Tarts. And remember she was like, she sat me down at the kitchen table, she gave me like a. One bottle of water, the whole box. And she was like, you need to eat this the whole thing in like 30 minutes. Or like she was sitting there with the belt and I was like. And I mean, I obviously didn't like finish it in 30 minutes, but like, I was, I was getting hit during that entire time. She wasn't like, I can't, I don't remember if she like forced that in my mouth. But like again, like, you need to eat these pop Tarts. You know, like, it's, it's dry. It's the Great Value brand. It's, it's cinnamon flavored pop Tarts. You can't even give me the, the same box, the flavor that she got. But like, that was just rough. It was rough.

Dev (35:07)

Like, yeah.

Kelly (35:08)

And again, I got, I got hit during that entire time. I don't remember if I finished it, but that was just rough. And like my dad was home. I can't, I think he was, he might have been. I think he was upstairs. But he definitely knew what was going on. I think he did know and this. And I'm definitely brought it up to him like later. But that was like one thing. And I was like, this is like, this is kind of out of the realm of the norm, you know, and even like what I experienced growing up is not normal at all. But I was like, why Am I being forced to eat this food? And then we get to high school. I feel like high school got better. I wasn't getting, like, in trouble as much. One thing I'll say this, I think my mom, like, I felt, like, isolated a lot. She would never let me. Like, in the summertime, I never saw anyone. It was just like, I'm hanging out with my family, and it was just, who's lonely? Growing up, I wanted to be able to just to hang out with, like, my friends and stuff. You know, I have my sister, but that there is still the age gap. Right. And. But we still, me and my sister, we had each other, but it was just. It was very even, like elementary school. I couldn't get to hang out with anyone, so it was just like, no one would know certain things that would be going on. It just felt. Felt really isolating. But high school, I did get disciplined, but it wasn't like the beatings I got as a kid, what that transitioned to. We'd go in her bathroom, and again, I. I can't. I can't remember what I would do. I don't even remember getting in trouble at school like that because I feel like I mellowed out in high school. But, you know, she would be like, you know, have your hands out, and she would have the belt, and she would just hit them back and forth, you know, like alternating. And like, after, like, a few hits, I mean, it hurts. It's not. It's not like. I mean, there would be. You could see how the belt would, like, wrap. You could see it wrapping around, like, the welts on my arms and stuff like that. And again, I don't remember how often it was, but that it happened. It 100% did happen. I think my last, like, lashings of those maybe stopped at sophomore year, I want to say. And then. Yeah, I don't. I don't. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I got any more beans with the belt after that. But high school was different just because, like, I was still wrestling. Like, I. I think part of me knew that I was gay when I was younger. I just didn't know, like, what to call it. Yeah. And I remember, like, I remember eighth grade, I was, like, wrestling with, like, maybe leaving myself as, like, bisexual, just, like, giving myself maybe a chance to date a man. But by the time I got in high school, like, I had a boyfriend, eighth grade, it really didn't matter.

Dev (37:54)

Yeah.

Kelly (37:54)

By the time I got to high school, I was like, okay, I know that I'm gay. And Only, like, a few. A select few friends knew about it. But I was just like. I wasn't ready to, like, come out. I wasn't. This is like, I'm like 24. So we're like 20, 15, 16, like my freshman year of high school. And then I remember my junior year of high school. I had, like, my first girlfriend. And that's when everyone, like, knew it wasn't, like, a big coming out thing, at least, like, friends, not. Not my parents. But that relationship was, like, a secret. They didn't know about it. I wasn't really a real relationship, honestly, you know, people. It was funny. Everyone. It felt like everyone was just waiting for me to say it, and they already knew. So, you know, had that relationship junior year of high school, ended that same year. And then senior year, you know, I had a. I had a girlfriend. I would consider that my first, like, serious relationship. And of course, that was. My parents didn't know. Her parents knew. They were cool about it. Didn't matter to them. And, you know, I remember my girlfriend. I came to the house, like, a few times, I think. I think for Halloween. Like, her and another mutual friend of ours, they, like, came to the house. We're like, oh, we're gonna go watch TV at somewhere, like, watch a movie. My mom was cool with that. She didn't suspect anything. But I remember. So this is where we get into, like, what's. What's been going on, like, then and now. It's, like, more relevant, I guess. So Christmas Eve, she came over to give me my gifts, and it was just like, as a friend, you know, she came to the house, she had. We had. Had like, three things for me, and, you know, we hung out. We were in my room for a little bit, and then my mom. Excuse me. She wanted. I think she was making Christmas cookies or something, and she's like, you know, you guys want to go to the store and go get this for me? She let me. She let her go with me, and we did. And then the end of the day kind of winds down and her parents come to pick her up. And at some point, I think I had to. I had to use the bathroom. And I come back downstairs, and my mom's like, you know, do you want to go to their family Christmas party? And I was like, you won't let me go? Because I don't. Again, I don't. I didn't get to do stuff like that. I was surprised she would let me. She was like, yeah, go ahead. And, you know, had a great time. There met, like, all her family for the first time. You know, I had a great night. And then, you know, I come back and I could tell, like, my mom, she just looked annoyed. Like something. Something was off, but it wasn't like. It wasn't, like, out the norm. I think my mom would, like, her mood would kind of fluctuate. So she was like, you know, this is just mom having an attitude. I don't know, whatever. I had just had a great night. And I remember one of the gifts she gave me, she. I was like, just hold it. I looked. I looked too happy for her. And I could tell, like, I don't know if she suspected something, but she. I don't know if she put two and two together, but basically, you know, Christmas morning, my mom wakes me up at, like, 7am she's like, come downstairs. Like, all right. And I see my phone on the counter. And I was like. And I knew she went through my phone. There was nothing, like, inappropriate in there. Pictures. You could tell we were a couple, right? And we weren't even texting each other's numbers like that. Because another rule I had, right when I had. When I had a cell phone, the rule. I was not allowed to text friends. I wasn't allowed to have any type of communication with them at all. But I've gotten my phone taken multiple times because of doing that. So I had to. I would text people on Instagram. I had. I hid Instagram from my parents from all of high school. I had it. And I understand. I understand the reasons of, like, not wanting your kid on social media, but I had no one to talk to. If I. If I didn't talk, if I didn't do that. Wouldn't have been able to talk to anyone. It really just would have been me by myself. And so. But, you know, that was deleted. She didn't see any of that. But back to the point. She had figured it out. I knew she did. She sits me down. She's like, miami. And my dad's there, too. And she's like, what do you think we're about to ask you? And she. You can already tell she had been crying. And I was like, yeah, Mom. Like, I'm gay. Like, it's true. And I can't, like, remember how, like, the rest of that conversation went. Just, like, disappointed in some way, but it's just, like, why? You know, And a big thing. They were so they. And they use it to this day. But they were so mad that, like, they said that I betrayed them because everyone else Knew. But them. And I was like, okay, but in.

Dev (42:18)

What world did they set up a relationship that made you feel safe enough to go to them?

Kelly (42:24)

Exactly. And I've. And I've told them that. Right. But, like, it's like, you were beat.

Dev (42:28)

Over small, stupid stuff, so, of course, if you came home with that, I'm sure you were terrified.

Kelly (42:35)

Yeah. And I just. I just. That's. That's literally. I was 17. Like, I was just. I literally feared for my safety. I was like, I'm. I'm. I'm not. I didn't tell you guys out of, like, protection of myself. And also, like, that aside, like, when. When someone's. If they're not ready to talk about that, they're not ready. It's not, like, your story to share or to know. And, like, again. And I told them. I was like, you know, I was afraid of your guys's reaction. And they're like, well, what do you. How did you expect us to react? And I'm like, not me, maybe. Yeah. But I. I think deep down, I knew that it wasn't gonna, like, go that way, but I didn't think it would go to, like, what. To what. To what I'm about to tell you. So, like, the rest of that, it was so funny because right after that, like, we still open presents, and, like, you know, my sister doesn't know what's going on. And, you know, my brother. Brother's not here at the time. Right. So it was just, like, really. It was really weird Christmas. I remember we were supposed to go to, like, my uncle's house. Supposed to be this big thing, and, like, this just totally ruined it. But, like, that night, she was like. She wouldn't let me sleep on the bed. She was like, you. You're not sleeping on the bed you're sleeping on, like, in your room on the floor. And I was like, okay. I don't know what that has to do. Me sleeping comfortably has to do with that, but I'm like, all right. The first night, I slept on the floor in my room. But then from pretty much, like, right. Probably a day or two after that till March 2019, I slept on, like, the dining room floor. Like, every night. A few times I would, like. I know I'd ask my dad, like, hey, can I sleep on the couch? He was like, yeah. Or I wouldn't ask, and I would just do it, and I would wake up in time to, like, go back on the floor, like, when I knew they started getting up. But, like, I was just like, you.

Dev (44:25)

Have, like, a pillow or a blanket?

Kelly (44:26)

Yeah, she. She told me only one pillow and one blanket, but I'm like, dude, I can't do that. I would get, like. And I'm using, like, the pillows. Like. Like, something like this was on the couch. I would, like. I remember I would just try to get enough to, like, cushion my entire body. So maybe, like, four maybe. I don't think she knew that because she never. And if she. I mean, you can. You can see. You can see me on the dining room floor walking through the house. When you come down the stairs, you take a left. There's, like, the kitchen. And then you look, and it's like the archway of the dining hall, one of the entrances in there. So, like, again, if she saw me, she did. If you didn't, she didn't take it away. But still, like, I'm on the floor. And even then, it wasn't. Those pillows didn't help. Like, it was like.

Dev (45:08)

And also, like, it's such a bizarre punishment.

Kelly (45:11)

Yeah. Like, it doesn't make any sense, you know, it's cold, too. Like, it's winter. Another thing, like, of course. I mean, I knew that my phone was gone. She took that. I was like. I was still kind of like, I wanted to apply to more colleges. I'd only applied to one and had gotten into that one, and I was still, like, kind of debating if I wanted. You know, I don't Also, you're, like, 17, and you don't, like, know too much about the college application process. Not at least. Not as much as I do now. But again, like, that costs money, you know, if you don't apply during, like, the free application week. But, like. Like, I feel like they didn't want me. My mom was like, she's not going. She's not going there anymore. My dad was gonna use, like, his GI bill to pay for, like, at least, like, the first year. And she was like, she's not going there. She's just gonna party. She's gonna experiment. And I'm like, I mean, I'm gonna do that anyway, kind of.

Dev (46:04)

Was it a local college?

Kelly (46:06)

No, this was East Carolina and Green. It's Greenville. It's still in North Carolina. Like an hour 45. No, no.

Dev (46:13)

It would have given you some space, though.

Kelly (46:14)

Yeah, for sure. And it was never. When I was talking about college, it never, like, mattered to them, like, where I went, like, vicinity. So it wasn't. They're like, if you want to stay here, go local. That's fine. But if they do what you want. But I remember, and I wasn't part of that conversation. That's just what I heard through, like, a closed door. But so for. For the longest, like, I didn't know I was going to school. We. We didn't that, because, you know, you get accepted, then you got to pay the acceptance fee. And we. That fee didn't get paid till, like, the last day. And I think that's, like, February. I think March maybe, but I think February is, like, the deadline sometime in there. So, like, for a long time, I didn't know I was going to college, didn't know what I was going to do again. I had played basketball all my life, you know, second grade, through middle school, through high school. I. I took a break my junior year because I really just needed a break. And then I came. I remember it took the co. They had the coaches looking for me, like, kelly, you need to come back. And I. And I did. And, you know, we had basketball workouts, like, winter workouts during break, because we had, like, games when we came back. And I remember, like, you know, it's time for, like, a workout. And I'm like, oh, well, they did. I was driving a car, too. They took that, too. I couldn't. I was not allowed to drive the car. And I was like, well, can someone take me? And my mom was like, you're not going to the workouts. And I was like, okay. And then by time school started, she was like, you're not playing. You need to tell the coaches, like, you're done.

Dev (47:42)

And this was all because you came out to them.

Kelly (47:45)

And she was like, don't. She was like, don't tell a coach to call me, because it's only going to make it worse. But she was like, you need to tell them that you're not playing. And that was just, like, devastating because one, like, I'm not. I was not at all, like, the best player on that team. I started, you know, every game, but it was like, what are we doing? Like, you're taking away now. You're affecting them, you know, and it just. It wasn't right. I remember talking to my coach, and he was like, is that it? And I was like, is that the reason why? And I was like, yeah. He's like, please let me talk to your mom. And I was like, honestly, man, I was like, I think you're gonna make it worse for me. And he didn't know at the time what was going on. You know, I skipped. I skipped. I skipped a big thing. I just remember.

Dev (48:31)

Go Ahead. Yeah. And you can say like, go back to wherever it fits in. Just say it.

Kelly (48:35)

Okay.

Dev (48:35)

It'll be fine.

Kelly (48:36)

Yeah. One time I was 16 and my mom, My mom was gone for the day and I think she was like hanging out with my grandmother. Doing, Doing. So they're gone all day. My dad, he was sleeping. My dad, My dad works hard, you know, he. He sleeps and waking him up is kind of like. I don't want to disturb him because, you know, military ptsd. Like he. He kind of wakes up fast. My dad, like sometimes ready to go. Oh yeah. Like, sometimes he's like scared and I don't want to do that. So I saw like, we had like a pack of like Klondike bars in the, in the freezer and there were only like two left. No one had touched them. I can, I could like comfortably say for like a month, right? And so I didn't want to wake up my dad. And I'm like, I'm not. I wasn't trying to call my mom because she was like out, you know, with my grandmother busy. And so I ate one and I forgot to throw the trash away. And I think I left it on like my dresser. She came home and she saw it, she's like, well, what's this? Like? Oh, that's like ice cream trash. I was like, I'm sorry, I forgot to throw it away. And she's like, well, did you ask for it? And I'm like, no. So she was like, you know, dad's sleeping and I don't want to bother you guys. And she was like, so you're stealing? And I was like, no, I'm not stealing. This is like, I live here. Like, what are you, like, what are you talking about? And she got there, there was like two more left. And she force fed me, like holding me and just shoving it, basically shoving it down my mouth. I don't remember. I don't remember if the belt was there. It might have been, but I don't remember getting hit with it. I'm not sure, but she did that. And then she went and got like, not even open, like Haagen Dazs, like coffee flavored ice cream. And she got a spoon and she like forced me that till I threw up. And I'm like, I'm like 16 at this point. And I mean, like, there's still, there's. I still see two stains on the wall in my bathroom to this day, you know, that was like, what, almost 10 years ago or something? So again, that just shows like the type of like, things she would do to me. And like, I remember, like, that happened and then I think I told my friends about it. Like, I don't know if it was like, right after, but I did tell my friends about it. We were, we were in class and, you know, I told my friend and she's like, she's like, that's, like, that's abuse. And she like, told the teacher. And I remember that this is like, this is her first year teaching too. And you know, she told her. Her face, like went really pink and she was just like. I was like, listen, like, don't, don't worry about it. Like, in that moment was like this look. It looked too stressful for her. And I was like. And I, I think I knew then, like, you know, teachers are like mandated reporters. But I was just like, don't, don't worry about it. Like, don't. Don't let this stress you out. And looking back, I'm like, man, I wish, like, someone did, like, do something.

Dev (51:34)

But I mean, in that moment, once again, you were just scared.

Kelly (51:37)

Yeah, 100%. It was just, again, just odd that, that. Why are you force feeding me? You know, like, that. That was just. Especially at that age, like, I was.

Dev (51:47)

It's just very excessive forms of punishment for things that aren't worth punishing.

Kelly (51:54)

Yeah. And like, if you wanted me, it's not like I was like eating like all the food in the house, like, taking away from them. I was never like, like hoarding anything. I didn't have any problems. It was just like, this is an ice cream bar that no one had touched in a while. I ate one.

Dev (52:07)

Yeah.

Kelly (52:08)

And it's not like we're not poor, you know, like, if you wanted to get something, buy another box. And even then, if you really wanted me to ask, you could have been like, kelly, next time just like, exactly ask. Because it. Because again, like, I wasn't. I don't even. I don't even think I was like, in trouble like before that. So for her just to like, go from just coming home to like force feeding you ice cream is crazy. So there was, there was no like, build up. It was just instant. But back to. Back to senior year. So couldn't. Sleeping on the floor, the car. So I, I was in dual enrollment, like my last two years of high school. In my senior year, I didn't have those classes every day. So sometimes what I would. They had a bus that would take you to, like, the community college and I would take classes there. And I think, like, Two, three days a week, I didn't have, I didn't have classes there. So what I would do, you know, second period's over, I'd go home and the drive from like the school to my house is like maybe like five minutes, depending on maybe six. I'll, I'll be nice and say eight, right? But car got taken. Mom's like, you need to walk home from school. And I'm like, like. And like, granted that the way that school in like the surrounding neighborhoods, it's set up, if you wanted to walk, it was somewhat safe to do it because you could. Like the easiest way, you cut through a neighborhood and there's like another elementary school in that neighborhood. You cut through there, you know, there's a crosswalk and you majority of that walk was done through the neighborhood. And then I'm probably on the main road for at least five to ten minutes maybe. And then I'd be in my neighborhood. But like I'm walking home, you know, it was maybe like a 30, 45 minute walk. But like, I'm like 17, I'm by myself. There was, there was a time where like one guy like slowed down, it was like, it was really weird. And I was like, I was like, nah, you can't, this can't, this can't happen today. But he like drove off. And I do remember one of my like this girl, we weren't even like cool like that at all. Like, I think we just were like mutuals. She might have done track, but I wasn't like, really, that wasn't someone I would go on my way to talk to. And I remember one time I'm walking and I guess she was with her dad in the car and she made him stop. She's like, hey, can you like give her a ride home? I don't even know if she like knew what was going on, but she's like, hey, can you give her a ride? And another one of my friends, you know, like, I think she gave me a ride like two or three times. She's like, hey, I'll take you home. I did track pretty much like a majority of my life. I did, I did track through middle school, through high school. I've gone to states for it one time. And like, I didn't get to do track my last year. That was something that I'd taken away. I didn't get to go to prom, which is like, I don't know, it doesn't, in grand scheme of things, it's kind of like small. But I didn't get to go to that. My mom, at one point, she told me she, I'm not even going to your high school graduation. I was like, well, okay. At that point, I was like, man, I don't even know if I want you there anyway, you know, But. And also from the moment once everything, like, came about, she. She wouldn't talk to me. Like, imagine, like, living in. Being in a space with someone, living in, like, no words. Like, we didn't. We didn't talk. I don't think she, like, spoke to me again maybe until March. And I say March because that's when I got my first job. I was like, they're like, if you get a job, you'll get your stuff back. So I was like, okay, during the break, because, you know, we. Winter breaks, like, two weeks. So I was like. I was like, just ready to go back to school, honestly, because it was just, like, lonely. Like, I'm literally, like, going through all this and, like, no one knows. And I remember one time, I remember I was only about how, like, she would make me iron my clothes. That stopped. I think that's that, like, that routine stopped by the time I got to high school. At least. Like, I didn't have to show her if I probably still, like, picked out my clothes for the week and ironed them. But, like, it wasn't, like, a big deal at all. But then all of a sudden, she was like, you need to. You need to show, like, give me the. Like, show me the clothes that you're wearing for the week. You need to iron them. Like, we haven't done this in years, right? But I'm like, whatever. So iron the clothes. Show them to her. And I bring out my jeans first. And some of my jeans had, like, holes in them. Not, like, nothing, like, too revealing, if anything. Most of them were, like, below the knee. And she was like. All of a sudden, she was like, why. Why do you, like. I don't like your jeans. Like, you need to. You need to give me all your jeans. I have holes in them. And that was like, a majority of, like, the good ones that, like, still fit that I consistently wore. And at that point, I was just so, like, frustrated because, again, a lot happened in those, like, short span of days over break. And, you know, I come back and I, like, just, like, kind of throw the jeans. And she's like, I don't even, like, remember, like, what she's saying. But, like, I said to her, I was like. I was like, what is. Like, what is wrong with you? Like, why are you doing this? It was just so much for me in that moment. And it wasn't. I don't think I ever, like, questioned my mom and, like, how she disciplined me, because it was like, that's going to make it worse, right? It was like, you better just, like, take it. Because, like, I would. I would never fight my mom back. Whenever she would hit me, any of those, I remember my friends, they would tell me, like, you know, I would run away, I would try to grab it, and I'm like, my mom would, like I say kill in a figure of speech. But as a kid, to maybe think that is not out the realm, maybe. I don't think it'd be crazy to think that as a kid, because my mom punished me, that. Imagine if I fought back. I remember again, I was just so upset. And I don't know how we got to the hallway. I think she followed me into her room to take. She was, like, taking my clothes. That's what she was doing. And I don't know who put hands on each other first. I don't remember. But, like, I just remember, like, us, like, kind of grappling each other. And I don't. I know my hand kind of got hurt in the process. It was, like, swollen for a little bit. But I don't. I don't think we, like, connected. We were. It was like. I think I had her against the wall. We were kind of just. Just again, just grappling each other. And then, you know, my dad came over and he did break it up. But, yeah, like, senior year was, like, really bad. Like, people, you know, your senior of high school, it's like. It's the last moment with, like, you know, some of these people I haven't seen in person since then, you know. And, you know, again, your senior year's supposed to be, like, a good year of high school. And it was just. Was so bad. Like. Like, it was like everyone knew. Like. Cause again, like, I. Everyone knew me playing basketball. I was like, why isn't Kelly playing basketball? It was just kind of embarrassing, like. Like, what's going on? Like, even, like, some teachers knew. And I remember, like, I didn't want to walk home every day. And so what I would do sometimes is, like, stay in, like, a teacher's classroom until, like, the end of the day. And then the bus. I could take the bus home. But I remember they were test. They were doing something new my senior year, like, testing, like. Like a free period. But they had, like, different activities you could do. I don't even know what I chose, but I wasn't. Someone noticed that I wasn't in where I was supposed to be. And so I guess they called my parents. They're like, you know, she's not here. I don't know if there was like an all calm the intercom or something, but I had to go to the guidance office and I remember going. She was like, we gotta. She was like, she was like, we have to call your parents. I was like, no. I was like, just let me. While I will walk home right now. Just let me walk. She's like, no, we can't, we can't let you walk. Like, I have to call your parents. And I was like, just like crying to her. I was like, I'm like, please don't. And again, that was another opportunity to like tell someone what was going on. But I didn't. I was just like, you know, my parents found out I was gay and like, it's like, it's really bad at home. And she was like, well, no, they'll come around. It's going to be okay. But again, like, I don't, I don't know if she should have just asked more questions or why didn't I just. I don't know why I didn't say anything that would have been like the time to say something, but it was like. And I mean, even, even in that moment, like, why didn't I say anything as a kid? You know, Like, I still, I still look back now, I'm like, I should.

Dev (60:30)

Have like told literally anybody to some degree. That's all you knew?

Kelly (60:34)

Yeah. Like, even though you knew it was.

Dev (60:35)

Wrong, that's all you knew?

Kelly (60:37)

Yeah, I know that they called my dad just because it was easier for him to come down and get me because he lived or his work, his job was so much closer. Probably like 15, maybe 20 minutes from the school. And my mom was like in a different, like a city kind of not, not still, not outrageously far, but still not, not as close. But she was just like, you know, again, she was like, you know, your parents, your parents are going to come around one day. And I was like, okay. And I believed her. You know, these are just kind of like growing pains right now. You're 17. And I was like, fine. But I remember my dad, he picked me up and he was like, he was so mad at me. He was like, this is, this is your fault. Like, you got you. I have to come down here and get you. We told you you need to walk home. That was the rule And I'm like, if you just give me the car, you know, let me drive home. And again, I wasn't like driving to go hang out with people. It was strictly school. If my parents needed me to run like a minor errand, that was it. So it wasn't like I was taking it for leisure anyway. But I'm like, if you just let. This isn't you. You guys made the decision to take the car away. So, like, this really isn't my fault. But I mean, I got in like a lot of trouble for that. I got my phone back right when my first job was at kfc. And that's when things kind of got a little bit better, you know, I figured. Figured out, you know, I was still going to be able to go to school. Right. Right before they paid the acceptance fee, I was about to enlist in the Air Force. I was like taking to recruiter right now. I'll just do that sometimes. I wish I did, but, you know, I wanted, I wanted to go to college. I wanted also. I just. Part of me just needed to get away.

Dev (62:12)

Yeah.

Kelly (62:12)

Honestly. And, you know, I don't remember when my mom, she. I think she said like a few words to me after I got my job. It wasn't like, consistent. I was bringing, you know, food home for us. Still. I don't. I guess things did kind of get better at least. Like, I got like, needs back, right. I got, got some type of like, dignity back. I got to sleep in my room again. But even with that too, like, I wasn't allowed because my, my room, excuse me, my bathroom was connected to my room and I couldn't use that bathroom either. I had to like, brush my teeth, like, shower and. And like you basically use their bathroom. Like, I never, I didn't, I didn't get to use my bathroom again. Why? I don't know. It part of this, that was part of the same punishment. Like, I didn't get to my room. I was only. I think I had to like, change in like my closet. And that was it. Like, I was. My. My room was just storage for my things at that point. But yeah, I had to, had to be in the room. But I'm trying to think what else? Did anything else happen? Like, crazy senior year, the transition. I'll remember this, you know, when we were supposed to do like, you know, orientation for college. Both of my parents were supposed to come with me. And it was just my dad, you know, me and him, you know, we had, we had fun, had a great time. He got me Like, a few things from my dorm. And I remember. I think we had, like, some more financial aid stuff to, like, settle in, whatever it was. I was just. You know, we come back and I'm just telling my mom I'm catching up. Like, you know, we did this. I think I might have needed something else from her. I don't know, but she just seemed, like, genuinely just disinterested. I'm like, it was just. It was really. I don't know if the word. I don't even know if hateful is the right word to use, but it was just like, she wasn't interested. And I think I said again, like, what. What's your problem? Like, what's. What's wrong? Maybe, like, why are you acting like this? I don't know. But then from there, she, like, she told me she kicked me out like a guy. I packed, like, packed my PS4, you know, I had, like, a blanket, a few other things, my phone. And, well, she. She took. She took my. My main phone. I had. I had a backup phone. I had, like, old phones. My parents, like, I had previously, and, like, they didn't know I kept it. And I was able to. I was able to hide it. I was able to hide it. I had, like, a bunk bed in my room, and there was like. Like a little, like, the. The bunk bed, the bottom one was like. It would come out this way, and then the top one's the one that's like, horizontal. And like, that space I would just hide it in. They never found it, thank God, because I would have been. That would have been my tail really bad. But so I had my backup phone. I had everything in there. And at first, like, no, you're not. You're not taking anything. But, like, she walked away and I just took my stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I was just like, I. I walked. I don't remember. I don't. I think my dad had to go do something real quick. I don't. I don't know where he was at. But I remember I walked to one of my friend's house. I knocked on her door. She didn't answer. So then I walked to another one. So it was kind of like diagonal. And, you know, I texted my girlfriend's. My girlfriend, like, off the phone, like, hey, like, can your mom, like, come get me? And she was. She was. She was ready. And so I'm in my friend's house. She told me what's going on, and I'm probably there for like, 20, 30 minutes. And then my dad, he came over there and was looking for me. I think my friend's mom came at some point. But even then, I wonder, like, you know, she didn't question too much either. It was just like, oh, Kelly's here. And I used to go there. My parents were kind of acquainted, right? But my dad, he was like, you know, is Kelly here? And she was like, yeah. He said, kelly, come on, let's go. And we walked back home. And nothing else was pretty much said of. It was just like, okay, I'm back. But, you know, going to transition to college was, like. It was good just because, you know, I got to get away. You know, I had. I had a whole other community. I remember one time I went home to visit. I went to the city to visit. I didn't go home to visit my parents. It was like. I think I was celebrating, like, an anniversary of my girlfriend at the time. You know, her mom pick. Her mom would pick me up. She went to a different college, too. She would drive all the way. She would go, like, green. Oh, Greensboro is like, more north. And then where I went, East Carolina is on the east. So she would drive everywhere and bring us back home. Right. And I remember one time. I guess I didn't realize my parents had my location until way later. I didn't know that. Yeah. And I guess my. My mom told me. She was like, you know, you were out, and someone. Someone I knew saw you, and they're like, oh, Kelly's in town. And they're like, well, we didn't know. And they were like. They called me, upset you came home. You did this. I'm like, one. I wasn't there for you, you know, why would I visit you? Like, we don't. And we, like, leaving. When I. When my parents dropped me off on, like, move in day, like, I remember there's still. We have pictures, right? And it just looked like I just came across it recently of a picture of me and my mom, and we just looked, like, kind of not mad at each other. It just. It was a really grim picture. Right. Like, part of me was. I think I shed only, like, one tear. Came in my eye. Move in day. Because, like, it was kind of sad, but I was like, you know, I'm out of here.

Dev (67:25)

Yeah.

Kelly (67:26)

Right. And, you know, my mom and mirror. She's like. She folded my clothes and all that. Like, it was my mom. It's hard. My mom can, like, be a really. It's gonna be crazy when I say that. She can be. She can be a really good mom sometimes, but Then, like, you see everything else and how she, like, really drops the ball, like, really bad. But it's like. It's just hard because I. I get. I get. I get the love for her that I need sometimes. But then it's like when you. You don't like who I am as a person or for some. For some reason. And it's just. It's really conflicting. That's why it was like. That move in was kind of. It was a little rough, but.

Dev (68:06)

Right.

Kelly (68:07)

I mean that during me and that girl, we were together for about three years, and they made that relationship, like, really hard. Like, you know, I was driving the car. I didn't bring the car with me for college.

Dev (68:16)

Right.

Kelly (68:17)

I think the first, like, two years I would come home for breaks and still stay and work, but, you know, and when she was back home to visiting, she only lived, like, 20 minutes from me. But they wouldn't let me drive the car. I wasn't allowed to drive the car. I think the first, like, year. First year or two, they wouldn't let me drive the car. Her mom would have to come get me and bring me in my curvy. I'd be back at the house by 12, which is like, I get it. I'm still living at home. Whatever. Be back by 12. But like, that. That was it just. They never. They never met her again, you know, after that.

Dev (68:49)

There was just no interest.

Kelly (68:51)

None whatsoever. Like. Like, no, that.

Dev (68:53)

That.

Kelly (68:53)

That relationship was, like, really private, at least, like, in regards to, like, even my mom. Like, she didn't even want to hear, like, what. Sometimes if we went out and I tried to tell her what I did today, she was like, well, I don't want to hear it. My dad, on the other hand. Well, here's what. Here's what's crazy. My dad has a gay brother and sister. And my mom, she loves them both, but she's more like closer, like, with the brother, which is insane, right? Yeah, they're cool. And you know what's so hard about my dad, too? It's like, you know, and he doesn't. He doesn't care about his siblings being gay, but it's like, what's the issue with me? And like, even then, what's. What's so weird is. And I get we've. We've talked more about my mom, but we haven't talked about him. But it's like, he's told me he doesn't care, but, like, if you don't care and you accept me for who I am, he's like, you know, Kelly, we would. We would meet your girlfriend, or I would. I would do this for your girlfriend. I don't care. I'm like, okay, then if you feel that way, what are you. Sorry. What are you telling Mom? You know, like, I feel like, in a marriage, and, you know, there's this issue going on with our. With our kid, and, like, if we. If we have two different ideologies, then, like, how is that not, like, stopping what's going on? I don't know how it's like, a cohesive, like, healthy marriage. I don't know. But it just. The dynamic just doesn't seem right when it comes to this situation. And he still has never given me, like, a straight answer ever. But we would. You know, I would come home, visiting sometimes, and me and him would go get, like, lunch, dinner, whatever, breakfast, and. And we would. We would have these talks, you know, And I. And I brought up things to him, even the stuff from first grade. And I was like, dad. And I. And I really tried to, like, set it up for him. I was like, dad, like, the reason why I didn't tell you guys, like, you know, I was 17 again, just protecting myself. What was I. What was I supposed to do? Like, all I could think about is making sure that I was okay. And it seemed like he understood. And I was like, dad, like, me not telling you guys wasn't malicious. Like, that was not what it was. Like, I. For those first. I want to say three years, like, after all that happened, I could. Like, I did my best to, like, put myselves in their shoes, and, like, you know, man, like, they really felt hurt that their daughter didn't tell them this one, this. This thing. And I felt like I kind of understood, okay, they're not. They want to be a part of this. And I didn't let them in, and I didn't trust them to. But again, like, I. Why would I trust them? Right? But I was. I was really trying to, like, rationalize it because, like, even though my. My parents, like, do some really crazy things, like, I love my family. Like, I think my parents, they don't. They don't know I'm on here. I don't know when this eventually comes out, if they'll see it again. This is however it ha. However it happens, it happens. But it's like, I hope they know. Like, if they do come across this and they watch, I hope they watch. The whole thing is that, like. Like, I love my family, like, after. And like I said, we're not I'm not even done talking yet, you know, about everything. But, like, I have done. I feel like I've exasperated all my options to like, make sure we have a relationship. Because, like, I, again, I love my parents, even though they're so much bad. There's still a lot of good too, but it's hard to, like, see. I remember like, one of my first early therapy sessions. My. My therapist, she asked, she said, you know, name, like a good memory you've had with your. Your mom. And like, in that moment, I couldn't. I sat there for like 30 seconds. I was like, I. I can't think of one. And I remember telling my friend after about it. She was like. She brought up something that I told her. I'm like, man, I couldn't even remember that.

Dev (72:27)

Right.

Kelly (72:27)

And it's just like, it was just. It's just sad. Like, I really, like, I love my parents. I do. Even. Even after all this is over, however it looks in the future, like my, My. My parents, they. They care about me. And I see how like, kids, like, at least like, how the kids, like, now and like, how parents, like, aren't involved and like, not the way they should be. My parents did everything to make sure I had like, like a good, successful future. And I recognize, I think sometimes they don't. Like, they think I take it for granted. Like, I don't. Like, I know, I know the sacrifice they had to make to like, to where we are today. But like.

Dev (73:10)

I think the thing is too, is, like, there's this internal battle because they are your family and you have such a genuine soul, you know? So you. It's like this conflict of, I love them, but these things were done that I know are wrong.

Kelly (73:26)

Yeah.

Dev (73:26)

You know, and like, you don't. I almost feel like it's harder because you don't just have this clear hate for them. You know what I mean? It's like, I love you guys, but you hurt me.

Kelly (73:35)

Yeah.

Dev (73:36)

You know, and I think too, you can recognize that in some areas and aspects, they did do their best. And that's great. And you can be thankful for that. But then there's also these areas that were not okay.

Kelly (73:49)

Yeah.

Dev (73:49)

You know, and no child deserves that.

Kelly (73:52)

Yeah.

Dev (73:52)

And just because you do good things, it doesn't balance out the bad.

Kelly (73:56)

No, it doesn't. And you're right. It's like, I think these last few weeks, this, this since. Since. Since we connected, you know, I reached out to you. Like, it's been. It's been such like a tumultuous. Summer, but like again, like, like going, going back, they. They made that relationship just hard. And like, I remember, you know, we. We broke up and I was able to kind of tell my dad, you know, talk to him about it. But it just. There's nothing like talking to your mom about some things, right? Like, it's, it's different when you talk to your mom about things. No, we. There's only. I wouldn't get too personal with her, like about certain things. You know, I told her when I would go out what I'd be doing at uc. You know, one time I had to. Was it. We had to. We had to, like we were in the stadium, we had to like run from the cops one time, you know, I told her that, you know, a little silly story, right? And I was able to like comfortable and tell her that, you know, nothing crazy happened, we didn't get in trouble, I promise. But like, you know, we broke up. And I remember that was like that summer we broke up was also kind of like the first year I had. I had. That was my first like school year of like, I lived off campus, I had an apartment, right. And so I was like, I. I can't. I knew I couldn't go and like deal with the breakup at home. Especially like, because I. For a month, I gave myself a month to like find a job. And if I couldn't, I was going to go back to my home job back with my parents. And I remember coming home one time and I told my mom, I was like, you know, things have just been like crazy and like, you know, me and her, you know, we broke up. You know, I mean that was like a three year relationship. You know, I took it seriously and it meant a lot and like, you know, that that was a moment you needed like community or something. Right? And she, to my face she was like, you know, she's like, I don't care. And I was like, like I was like low key crying in front of her and I was like, you know what? Actually you're right because why am I about to tell you? Like, you don't, you don't care at all. And you know, I dealt. That was, that was a pretty tough year. I dealt with that. I had my friends, you know, I had my community. But like, I dealt with all that on my own. I feel like in a moment like that you would like need your parents for like two.

Dev (76:06)

You know, everybody wants their blood to be their biggest support.

Kelly (76:11)

Yes.

Dev (76:11)

And I think that there's, you know, in therapy, I'VE even been taught that, you know, sometimes people's families, they don't act like family.

Kelly (76:25)

Yeah.

Dev (76:26)

And it's okay to realize that sometimes your family isn't going to be your real family. You know, it's going to be your friends. It's going to be people you meet throughout life. But that being said, that doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt when your family doesn't act the way you wish they would.

Kelly (76:42)

Exactly. Yeah, it was. It was kind of hard seeing, like, I saw like my. My. My ex's family. Like, you could see them have like a normal family dynamic. And like, you see how easy it is. And it's like that's how in your head that's what you think it's supposed to be. And it's just like when you don't see that and you see how hard they make it. It was just. It was really. Just interesting to see the parallels, like, between. Between us too.

Dev (77:07)

Sucks.

Kelly (77:07)

Yeah, it really does. But, you know, the two. I would say those two. I was single for like two years and I would say, like, that was like. I felt like we were really, like, repairing our relationship. I feel like I'd gotten closer with my mom. It was. It was really good. I remember my. My senior year of college, my mom, my grandmother, and my sister had came to visit me in January. They have never. I think my family visited me one time in college and it was like, maybe like in November of my, like my first semester or in the spring. But they. They came and visited me, but that was it. And it was just like a big deal, you know, my mom, she got a hotel and, you know, I showed. And my grandmother had. I've never like, given her like a true tour of my campus. Like, you know, this. This has been my life for the past like five years. And, you know, I had a great day. We went out, got some food, and I remember, I mean, college is rough. You know, I. You know, I was. I was paying my own rent. My parents, they didn't help. They helped me. They helped me pay rent like twice. At least. Like the full coverage for like my first apartment. And then once I got the new one, you know, price went up. I was like, guys, listen, I can't if you want me to focus on school, but it also pay for most of my things. Like, I can't. I can't do it all. I was like. I asked him, can you guys pay half my rent? And that was our, that was our deal. I think I paid the full bill myself. A few times that year. But it was like. Remember my, my mom was there and you know, when I bought groceries for myself in college, it wasn't like a haul, you know, it was just, it was just what I needed. You know, it was, it was rough. It definitely, definitely, you know, I didn't have, I wasn't like, I had food security growing up. And I wasn't saying college was like terrible, you know, I was able to eat, but like, you know, one of my, one of my buddies was in a ROTC and you know, you know, for a few days she gave me MREs and I was eating. That was what I, that's what I was eating. So, you know, I wasn't telling my parents what I was going through because I didn't, I also kind of didn't want their help because it was like, I don't want help. I don't want to feel like more in debt to you.

Dev (79:10)

Yeah.

Kelly (79:11)

And hold something over me. So, like a lot of this stuff, they didn't like, know what I was going through, but you know, I made it out and it's, it's fine. I know I'm not the only one, someone who's, yeah. Had to struggle like that through college. But I remember my mom, we went to Walmart and she probably got me like almost 300 worth of groceries. And I'm like hugging her, like crying. I'm like, just like, you know, thank you. I'm just happy that you're here. We had like, that was a really good time and you know, like this is. And then we, we started talking December 2023, and we, we talked for a few months and then like once.

Dev (79:42)

Were you, were you still in college at that point?

Kelly (79:44)

Yes. Okay. Yeah, I was in college for five years. Got it. Yeah. So we, you know, we were talking for a couple months and then once it got close to graduation, I had known that I wanted to make it official and I was like, okay, let's, let's do this the right way. Right. They were, the whole reason why they were upset is because I didn't tell you guys. So let me kind of do this. I was like, hey, I'm talking to someone and it's going really well. Told them a little bit about her, brought up the pop tart story and you know, that, that how we were connected in that way. And I was like, you know, I plan on making an official student and I wanted to let you guys know. And I had a three way phone call or something and my dad was like, you know, Kelly, that's cool. You know, tell us more about her, whatever. And my mom, she was listening, and, you know, it was okay. And then, like, I can't remember if I. I think I told him. After graduation and my. I had an internship. It started in June. And I remember I went home, like, for one of the last time, just to hang out with my family, because I was. My internship was in a different city closer to where, like, probably still like an hour 45 from home. But I knew I was going to be busy that summer. And me and my mom had just, like, went to my grandmother's house and we're on the way back, and I was like, so, mom, like, you know, how do you feel? Because we haven't, like, we didn't really talk much more about what I had told her. And I remember she, like, she's like, kelly, you know, hold my hand when I say this. And I'm like, okay. And she was like. And I don't. I don't know who brought up a wedding. Like, I don't think I did. She was like, I'm not going, like, to your wedding. And I'm like, okay. Like, I don't remember me bringing that up. And then, like, for the next, like, few minutes, it was kind of just like a weird conversation. I can't even, like, remember all of it. But, I mean, she was kind of telling me there that she. I think she did say she don't think she was going to ever, like, accept it. And it still, like, rubbed me the wrong way. I know, I know. I didn't like that conversation after it happened. And then, like, after my internship, like, my internship was from, like, June to August, and I hadn't. I hadn't gone home. I could have went home. My internship was remote. I could have. I could have been home so many times. And, you know, it just. And mind you, this is last year. Just. Just more context. This. This is last summer. So I had just. I just kind of stayed away, just doing my own thing, you know, we're like, building our relationship. I'm meeting, experiencing these. These new people. My internship was great, by the way. I love my internship. In the beginning of the summer, they told us that, like, at the end, once you guys are all finished with your internship, we're going to have, like, an end of summer celebration, right? And I remember them telling us about it. And I did tell my parents about it. I think I told them the dates, too, but they didn't seem, like, too into it, so we just didn't Again, I was also just busy too. So I didn't really. We didn't talk about it again. And then I remember my mom called me one day, I want to say, like in July. And she's like, you know, I got this letter in the mail. It's going to be end of summer internship or the celebration, like, we want to come. And I'm like, I remember thinking like, how they get the address. And then I remembered that like our orientation for like the organization, they had us put. They want us to put our addresses down. And like, I didn't want to put my old one from school because like, I'm not there anymore. And I didn't know the address of. Because they had us, they put us up in Airbnbs. And I didn't know that address at the time, right at the top of my head. So I just put my families down. I didn't really think. I wasn't really putting together. I just wrote it down. And so I was like, okay, that's how she got it. And I was like, hey, mom, like, you know, I would love for you guys to be there. I'm gonna let you know that my girlfriend, she's gonna be there. Like, she just is. And she's just like, oh, well, I don't, I don't know. Like, I have to, I have to like rethink some things. And I was like, okay, fine. And then she calls me like, or she texts me the next day or something. She's like, here's what we'll do. Me and your dad will come, but we're gonna like not talk to you. Like, we're gonna come and like sit in the audience and like not say anything. And I was like, I was like, okay, that's just like weird because one like I was kind of part of it, the ceremony in a way because like we had like we. I was like in a play. It was kind of part of it. I was like, I was doing work with like farm workers and like one of my. I was like in a theater group and we would go to the farms, like perform for the farm workers, get some information about them, get to know them, speak to them. And it was a really, like that organization was just really intimate. That was a really family oriented. And it was just like, like people's. People's parents were coming, coming out the cut to come out of there and like, be there. And you know, I was just like, you guys are gonna be there and like, not talk to anyone. Like, people are gonna come out, come up to you and ask like, well, who are you? It's just the dynamic of just, like, them coming and not talking was just weird. And I was like. I told them I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna ignore her to, like, please you guys either. I didn't want to put her in, like, a weird situation either. And my mom was mad. She was like, well, she was mad that I hated that idea. And she's like, well, if it's like that, but we're not going to come at all. And I was like, just hurt because I think in college I was also an rotc. And then that just didn't work out. And I felt like a lot of, like, milestones they were supposed to see, they didn't get to, like. The only thing they got to see was my graduation. Which is fine. It's still a big deal. But I felt like, you know, and when I was getting awards in school, you know, my parents would come and it just hadn't. I just. I wanted them to be there and, like, see it.

Dev (85:11)

I think, too, it's hurtful because it's like, you're really gonna let your own views on my sexuality.

Kelly (85:22)

Yeah.

Dev (85:23)

Stop you from being a part of some of the best times of my life.

Kelly (85:27)

Yeah. Like, last summer was just like. I felt like I had, like, a purpose. And I still do, but it was just. It was also just like me discovering, okay, like, what do I want to do, like, as a career. Right. I really, again, I loved last summer was really good. And it was. I was just so upset. And I remember, you know, my mom said that word, we're just not going to come at all. And I was like, okay, fine. And then I remember the next morning, I was on social media and like, this. This person who was like, I think we might have gone to the same elementary school, but we had a lot of mutuals on Instagram, you know, and he, like, he passed away on his birthday. Like, he car accident. And, you know, he had just. We had just graduated too. It was just like, you. I saw my whole, like, city morning, which is really sad. Just. Just terrible to see. And I remember just like. I mean, I was just crying because I was like, you know, I don't want to, like, spin. I don't want to fight with you anymore. Life is obviously too short. You know, this dude just graduated ride along with me two months ago, and now he's gone. Right? And you can see how it's affecting everyone, even affecting me. And we didn't even. That man, probably even Remembered me or knows me like that. And I called my mom, and I was just like, hey. Like, this is what I saw. Like, mom, like, I really. I don't want to fight with you. Like, just come to the ceremony. Like, I just want you guys to be there. And I don't know how it got from, like, me just talking, crying regularly. And then, like, next, you know, I'm like, just, like, going in on her, and I just. Like, you. I was bringing up stuff you did, like, in senior. My senior year of high school, like, just bringing up all how. How you treated me awfully. And I was just like. He's like. I was like, you think I want to be yelling at you like this right now? Like, I'm trying to. I got a ceremony coming up. I was. The next week, my internship. They. They flew me out to Chicago, and I was able to, like, we had, like, a conference going on. I had, like, a partner that. And like, I was trying to prep myself for that because that was also, like, my first time meeting everyone excited. My supervisor, like, in person. And it was just like, I'm not trying to have this right now. And also, it just.

Dev (87:32)

It could be so simple.

Kelly (87:34)

Exactly.

Dev (87:34)

Just come, you know, like, it should just be. Besides that. It's like, whatever you love, they should love.

Kelly (87:42)

Exactly.

Dev (87:42)

And I think that. That. And that's nothing. This is. I'm saying this to you and for anybody that's felt this way, but that. It has nothing to do with.

Kelly (87:49)

With you. Yes.

Dev (87:50)

Like, people that act that way, they have some sort of trauma, misery, bitterness, whatever it is, or whatever the reason, whether it was something that happened to them when they were kids or whatever it may be, like, that is all a reflection of them, and it's sad. But none of that is because of you. And you should never have to change or adapt to make them happy. So this is not their life. It's your life. And just because they brought you into this world does not mean you live a life serving them.

Kelly (88:21)

Exactly. Like, I think, like, that. That was, like, really, like, my boiling point. Because I told her. I was like. I was like, the. The easiest. No one's telling you. No one's saying, like, you. We gotta bring Jasmine to the house right now. Like, I was like, the easiest thing you could do is you walk in there, you say hi to both of us, just. And then go sit down. Just be there. Yeah. Yeah.

Dev (88:43)

Like, so did they not end up coming?

Kelly (88:45)

No.

Dev (88:46)

Have they ever met her?

Kelly (88:48)

No.

Dev (88:49)

And you guys have been together for how long? About a year.

Kelly (88:51)

And some change, year and a few months that when me and my mom had that argument, I was actually supposed to go home for the first time for that summer and, like, visit everyone. And then I ended up not. Of course, I still went. One of my. My same buddy who was an ROTC who gave me the MREs, I stayed at her apartment because she was stationed. Stationed out there. And then, you know, we hung out. And my grandmother's close by, so I went. I went to go talk to her. And my grandmother, by the way, like, she supportive? I think so, yeah. She's. She hasn't. She hasn't met Jasmine. She was actually recently, like, spoke on the phone with her, but we'll. We'll get into that a little bit later. But, you know, she's all I've been able to talk to her about, like, what's happened. She knows everything that's going on, and she doesn't understand my grandmother from Haiti, Christian woman. And, like, if she can, like, be normal about this, why can't you? And, you know, I talked to her and she was like, you know, she calls me Junior. I'm named after her. So she's like, junior, just. If you really want them to come, like, maybe just apologize for, like, you know, because it. Cause it did. Again, I don't know how it went from, like, me and my mom kind of just talking, and I just, like. It got really aggressive, but well deserved, though, honestly. And she, like, you know, just talk to them, like, tell me. I really want you guys to come. And I did. I texted him, we have a. I have a group chat with my. Both my parents. And I was like, listen, like, I'm sorry that things got out of hand. At the end of the day, I really just want you guys to be there. So if you really don't want to say anything, fine. Can me. Can the three of us just go get dinner or something after the ceremony? And my dad texted me on the side outside the group chat, and he was like, you know, Kelly, I'm not mad at you. We'll try to figure something out. Like, I don't know what's going on. Your mom. We'll figure something out. And I was like, you're right, dad. Because even when I'm in trouble, when I was in trouble, like with my mom, it was like, you did the worst thing in the world. And there was, like, there was, like, some tension afterward. Me and my dad, up until kind of now, we would. If something, if we kind of got into it, you know, we would Always be able to come back from it relatively quickly. And I was like, you know, dad, that apology is mostly for Mom. You know, I know how mean you were. Okay? And then so the next morning, I mean, I'm at. I'm at my friend's apartment, and I wake up and I get a text from my dad. I wish. I wish. No, no, I don't need my phone for it. But not because I won't be able to find it. But he basically says, like, Kelly, I know part of the deal after my internship was, like, if I couldn't find a job or anything, I could stay at home until I found one, right? He was like, I know we said you could come. I know we said you could come to the house after, but your lifestyle, it's like. It's too stressful for us. We can't deal with it. Like, basically saying that I couldn't come home after. And this was like, again, like, this was on a Sunday, I think that Wednesday I was supposed to fly to Chicago and be there for five days. And, like, he. He texted me that, and it was just, like, weird. He's never acted that way about it before. Again, like, I feel like my dad was, like, breadcrumbing, breadcrumbing me a lot over the years, saying, like, oh, your mom will change. I'm talking to your mom. But, like, obviously nothing has changed. But it was just really weird to see that from him. And, you know, all I can say is, like, thank God my friend was there, because I don't know what I would have done. It was just like, I felt like I had lost everything. And I remember that day, I think I wanted. I had to get my oil change. It was out. And I, like. I, like, drove to, like, my old, like, elementary school, and I was just, like, walking around it. And honestly, like, if I had. If I had anything to, like, hurt myself, I think I would. At that day. That's all I could, like, just think of in the moment. I really just wanted to go, like, on the playground, like, where it was where it used to be. I really wanted to just be out there. But it was all. They fenced it. And that's probably, like, over the years from, like, security issues, but it's. It used to never be like that. So there was only so far I could go, like, onto the school grounds. But it was just like a really, like. It was a hard walk, and it was just not. Not good. But then, I know I kind of skipped ahead, but I got that message at 7:00am right and then two hours later, my dad texts me again, and he's like, kelly, that wasn't me. That was your mom who sent that. And I was like. He was like. He said, yeah, she took my phone and, like, texted that. And I'm like. Part of me is like, well, you let her do that. But also, here's my thing, right? I think my mom doing that. I don't. And we. We've kind of discussed it after, and I'll get into that. But you. I don't. There's no way to excuse that, because, one. It's just wrong. But, like, you had intentions sending it from his phone because. And what I came to learn later, she told me that she blocked my number. And my thing is, you could have been woman enough to call me and say that you could have texted me that, then blocked me, or you could have still texted from my dad's phone and said, hey, this is your mom. You had options. And that's what you did. You don't know what type of. You probably didn't know. She just didn't care. But, like, we don't. We don't know what that does to somebody. And it obviously did a lot to me in that moment. And then, like, that I was so angry. But I only had, like, two days to, like, really, like, think about that, because I had to lock in. I was at the airport at, like, 5am I'm traveling with my supervisors. I'm, like, trying to, like, be professional. I'm in Chicago, like. And, you know, I had a blast out there, but those were really hard. Five days, I think I. I barely ate. You know, I was just working and, you know, came back from Chicago. And then, like, that same week or the next week, you know, is the. The ceremony. My parents, like, I said they didn't come, but I still had a. I had a great time. But what, Again, I had nowhere to go. And so, like, you know, I moved in. I moved in with Jasmine, and we moved in together. And, you know, I was still, you know, looking for jobs and stuff like that. And I can't remember if me and my dad spoke at all during that time. But, like, obviously me and my mom didn't. You know, I'm talking to my grandmother, and she's like, I remember the day I had to turn in my laptop, you know, when I was done at the time. And I was just. She was. My grandmother told me, like, if you. If you have nowhere to go, you can come here. Right? I was like, yeah, I understand. And I remember I think my mom texted me in September. I think it was, like, maybe Labor Day weekend or close to it. But all she said was, she was like, you know, we're grilling this weekend, whatever. Like, if you want to come, come home. And the thing is, I couldn't afford to fill up my gas tank. I didn't. I couldn't. And I was like, I'm not going to waste. I'm not going to waste the last money. I have to, like, go home. And, like, like, no, I'm not going to be around you. And. And I come to find out later. My grandmother told me that she spoke to my mom, and she was like, you know, junior, she doesn't have any money. Like, she's trying to figure her stuff out. Like, let her. You need to. You need to support her. Let her be home at least until she finds a job or help her find a job. And she told. She told my mom to reach out to me. And I mean, you doing that. That. That girl text is nothing, you know, or you could have or maybe if you wanted, if you had intentions, maybe to talk to me. I don't know. Say that because all I. Who wants to again? Who wants to go and visit you when, like, all this has happened? Wayfair's big sale is returning. Get ready for way day. For four days only, score up to 80 off all things home with free shipping on everything from October 26th through 29th. Score Wayfair's best deals, like up to 80 off air area rugs, up to 60 off mattresses, up to 60% off bedroom furniture, and more exclusive door buster deals. So mark your Calendar and shop Wayday starting October 26th at Wayfair.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh. They're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1,800-contacts right after that. Because I technically had, like, two internships in one. I had, like, the overall organization and they placed all the interns at the end different other organizations. Right? So the. The place where I was placed at, they said, hey, Kelly, we can offer you something for right now it's like 20 hours. Like, h. I was. I was basically cleaning up, doing inventory of the office, right? But I was getting paid and I was able to make some money then. Still wasn't really talking to my parents. And then I did. I did shrooms for, like, one of the first times. The first time I did it fine. And then we did it again. I did it with Jasmine and then another one of my friends I've known since I was a kid. And we did, like. We did, like, 0.5 more of the original dose. We did, like, 2 grams instead of 1.5. The potency was higher. But, like, the first half of the trip, it was chill. You know, I'm vibing. And I remember I just, like, I felt sick. So, like, I use the bathroom, I lay down, and I have, like, my blanket, like, over my head. And then Jasmine's just, like, holding my hand. And I wasn't, like, in, like, pain, which is. It was, like, kind of nauseous. It was kind of hard to describe. But then, you know, I'm kind of just holding her hand and, like, squeezing it every couple of sections, couple of seconds. And it reminded me of, like, how people squeeze their hands, like, for contractions when you're giving birth. And I don't know, like, I said that and I don't know, I guess my head, it just went from one. I just basically just started thinking about my mom and I don't know, like, what came over me, but it was like. Like, the only way to describe it is, like, giving birth to my pain. That's, like, the only way to describe it. And I remember I was just, like, crying. And, like, it was like I was talking. It was like I was talking to my mom. Like, the way Jasmine and, like, my friend describe it, it was like I was, like, channeling some of her, like, energy. Mind you, we're all, we're all on trips, right? Yeah. But, like, it was like, a sobering moment in a way, too, like. And I'm just, like, talking to her. I'm like, like, it's okay to, like, again, I, I, I don't know how what all my mom has gone through growing up, right? But, like, I know being a parent isn't easy. I'm not a parent myself. I know. Like, you and I. And I was saying that it's okay to, like, make mistakes, but, like, when you, when you. I feel like being able to, like, redeem yourself is a good way. Like a different, you know, what's called character redemption. I can't I can't think of the. Yeah, I can't think of the. The term character development. Right? And I was just like. But when you keep getting worse, that's when it becomes a problem. And I remember just, like, crying. And I could, like, hear my mom crying. I could, like, it was. It was really crazy. And I felt like we were, like, crying together. It was just. I remember, like, being. And I've. And I've. And I've had this memory prior to, like, me being, you know, doing the psychedelics. I remember my earliest. I think my earliest memory as a kid is, like, my mom driving. And I'm like, you know. You know how they have the baby seats and you're facing the actual seat? And I remember just driving like it's at night time. And like, I see. Let me pass a gas station. And again, it was just. It really was me and my mom just growing up. So I think in that moment, I don't know if I felt connected to her. But again, like, we were just, like. It was like I was just channeling a lot of energy. Was really. You. You really just had to be there to see it. And I've never cried so hard before, ever. And I remember, like, getting up off the couch and there was, like, just so much, like, snot. But, like, I felt like. I felt so much better. It felt like I again, given birth.

Dev (101:17)

To my family in a way.

Kelly (101:19)

Yes. Like, it definitely, like, for a moment after that trip, like, a weight had been kind of taken off my shoulders. And in that moment, I did feel like, a lot of, like, peace and, like, somewhat forgiveness. Right. And it made me just think of things a little bit different. I felt like I was kind of, like, humanizing my mom in some way. But I remember, like, a month or two later, my grandmother, she had to go to the hospital. And my mom, she had been. She hadn't. She's a teacher. She hadn't worked for, like, a month because she just got knee surgery, you know, and she wasn't getting paid for that. And so no one could watch my brother. And I remember in my Mimi, she told me this too. And she was like, yeah, your mom was trying to figure out, like, who's gonna watch your brother? And Mimi was Mimi. That's why I called her. Mimi was like, call Ketley and Mom. She said, mom just looked, like, guilty. Like, because. Because, like, why. Why would I come and help, right? But that's my brother. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna watch my brother. I love that man. I'm Gonna do what I need to do. So, you know, I. I watched him for a whole week, and that was probably like, the most time I've ever, like, spent with him, like, consecutively. And, you know, mom was thankful about it and trying to think because we. I think we had an argument at some point prior to that, before that happened. But I told her about the. My experience on the shrooms. I told her. I told her everything that happened.

Dev (102:48)

What was her response to that?

Kelly (102:50)

She really just, like. She sat and, like, looked down, but she was. I think she was listening.

Dev (102:55)

Okay.

Kelly (102:56)

She didn't. She didn't ask too many questions. She was like. I was like, momma, tell you something. I was like, I want to tell you something. You have to have an open mind. Like, it's going to involved drugs. I'm sorry. Like. Yeah, but I. I told her. I was just like. It was a really. As, like, scary as that was because it. It was like. It was good.

Dev (103:13)

Therapeutic in a way.

Kelly (103:15)

It was. It was very therapeutic. And I just told her, like, mom, I don't. We could be. We could just be so much. I don't want to fight with you. Like, we've been. We've been in this thing for, like, forever. This Christmas will make it seven years since all this happened. I was 17. I'm 24 now. Like, I'm not. I'm not. I told him. I'm not. I'm not who I was then anymore. I feel like I've again put myself in your shoes. I've. I've. I've done everything I could, like, give some grace to me and, like, stop.

Dev (103:41)

You know, I think. And I could be wrong, but I feel like in a twisted way, that's the only way she knows how to treat you, you know? Like, I think that it would take healing on her end and almost like, rewiring her brain and relationship with you to have a normal, stable relationship. You know, it's like, I feel like even if there's these moments where it seems like she's listening and there might be times in her own mind where she might want a good relationship with you, I don't know if it would be just like her own self getting in the way of that mixed with not knowing any different.

Kelly (104:23)

Yeah, I. And I. And I've told her I was like, mom, like, go get therapy. Go get therapy.

Dev (104:28)

Like, I'm sure. What is she against it?

Kelly (104:31)

I mean, she's done it before, like, a long time ago, but I don't.

Dev (104:35)

Think it knows if she'd be honest in therapy, I don't think. You know, for therapy to work, you have to be honest. And it's like. It's just crazy because you don't know what's going on in her head, what she thinks is wrong, what she thinks is right. And unfortunately, people are stubborn in their own ways.

Kelly (104:50)

Yeah, I. I think my grandmother told me, like. Excuse me. I think at one point she did, like, try to go to therapy or did briefly when all this was kind of happening. I don't. Maybe when I was still in college. I'm not sure. But, like, I think she said, like, the therapist is challenging her, what she's doing to me, and you can't take that. Like. And, like, it's like, we. You can't. If you don't even, like, give yourself the chance to, like, try to be different. Like. Like. And like, Jasmine says this, too, all the time. Like, she says, like, shame dies in, like, safe spaces. And, like, even though you've done all these crazy things, I'm like, Even if it's not talking to a therapist, you're talking to me. Like. Like, I'm. I'm trying to forgive you. And I'm like, if we can just. Like, if we could just sit and just talk about it. I don't know. I don't know what it would take. I don't know. Nothing will ever change because again, I'm not. Unfortunately, I'm not done talking. So I don't. I don't know. Like, just as, like, a mother. I don't. I don't know how she, like, functions, because if I had a kid and I just, like, know they're out there, like, suffering, especially because it's my fault. Like. And again, who knows if she really thinks this is her fault, right? But, like, how. But again, like, she. She slept comfortably for, what, six months when, like, I'm on the floor and I. You. You. You went to. You went to bed every night knowing that I was sleeping on the floor, and you. That didn't. You. You kept it going. So, yeah, after. After my grandmother was in the hospital, things kind of got. They were. They were okay. We didn't. We. Like, I had that conversation with her about the. The trip, and I was just like, mom, like, I. I was like, you need to. You need to take accountability. I did say that. I. I did. I was like. And I don't want. Like, I was like, if you apologize to me right now, I don't even know if I would receive it or believe you, because I. You're just Saying it now after all these years, but I was just like, something's going to give us like whenever I was like, whenever you're ready, whatever. But like I felt, I felt like I had given her like a good talk to where it's like again after. I really could have been like, we're done cut you off after that summer and I should have, but I still again giving you a chance to like maybe rekindle something. But we were okay. We were okay for a little bit and then it started to get bad, like again. And when I think in April of last year, this year. Okay. Yeah. So.

Dev (107:36)

So recent.

Kelly (107:37)

Yeah, Reese, like recent. So my sister, she. She wants to, she's been asking to come visit, like come stay at my apartment. And she's done it before. Like last year when, when my mom and grandmother came to visit, she stayed the night at my apartment. She got to meet my roommates. You know, we were cool. We had a great time, chill. And so solely asked me and I was like, I, I was like, I don't know, but I will ask. And I was thinking maybe it'll be okay just because uk, like she's done it before and I don't, I didn't, I didn't have high expectations. But of course, you know, I asked her. I was like, you know, we would take her out, mom, like, if you want me to be the one driving, I'll do that. She kind of has a thing. She doesn't want her kids driving random people. I was like, I'll be the one driving. We'll take her out. You know, just telling her what we would do or what we could do. And she's kind of silent for a little bit and she was just like essentially saying no. And, and I told her, I told her that I told Solely before that I was gay. And I know, I know before when I was. I think maybe in senior year, we had a conversation where she was like, well, you don't. I don't want you telling her. We have to. And again, I don't fully remember that, but I know it was said. But like, that's my sister. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk to her. And also like, not even, not even to be funny, but like, look at me. I'm like, I'm a mass presenting woman. Like, she's gonna, she goes to public school. Like solely. Solely's autistic. She's not like, she's not dumb. Yeah. Like, she, like she, she again, she goes to public school. She probably for all we know she's seen somebody pregnant at school. I don't know. I remember in eighth grade, it was seventh grade, some seventh grades. A girl was pregnant in eighth grade. So we saw something like that, that early. So I didn't see it being an issue. And she, she took issue with that. That was like something she kind of had a problem with. So, like, that happened. And I was just. I was just. So I was really upset because, like, I can't hang out with my sister. And here's the thing. Like, if. And we also. We have a roommate, too. If you want to feel comfortable knowing your kid is somewhere else where you haven't been, you know what the first steps are. You meet the people who live there. She did the same thing when, when my sister stayed at college with me last year. You know, she met my roommates, and it wasn't like, we sat down, got dinner. You chatted with them, okay. These are cool people. And you know, you know, I would tell you something. If I didn't like my roommates or if I wouldn't want my sister there, if, If I, I would. I would die for my sister. So, like, I would never put her in a situation where she's not safe environment. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Dev (110:21)

So she said no to that.

Kelly (110:22)

Yeah, she said no to that. That happened. And then I think. I think later that April, I talked to my dad because in the fall, like, what, December 2024. And he has mentioned plenty of times, too, but he was like, I want to. The car I drive now, it's like in their name, right? And they're like, you know, you want to put that car so you can start taking responsibility, right? I'm like, what? Post one year grad, you know, time to start being an adult, right? And at that time was like, you know, I want to come to him. I'm ready for that. And I was like, dad, give me until the end of summer. Because I had three big emergencies. One of our cats had to go to the vet, like, what, once or twice. My. My car, I think the tire blew out. Oh, my God, it was crazy. Like, so I had, like, a bunch of big emergencies back to back. So I was like, give me till the end of the summer. I can, like, save some money and just be prepared to start taking on more bills and. Because, you know, I can. I can pay this stuff, but you don't want to, like, start out in a bad spot, right? And that was my whole point. And I explained that to him, and he agreed. There, there. There are screenshots of him confirming. I told him. I told him that I wanted to get new tires in June. And again, he agreed. So, birthday. My birth. My birthday is, like, May 13th. Birthday comes around, I don't get a happy birthday from any of them. And, like, from my mom, I'm not, like, surprised. I didn't tell her Happy Mother's Day, you know, but for my dad, it was a little different. Things were kind of chippy between then and there. I don't remember us, like, talking too much, but basically, my dad, he texts me the week of my birthday, and he's like, oh. Before I get into that, I had texted him prior, saying, hey, I just don't think it's fair. Like, all these years you've been. Because my dad said to himself, he was like, kelly, I don't care if your sister goes to your house or your apartment. I'm like, okay, if you don't care, say that. And I was just like, it's. I was just texting, you know, it's just not fair that, like, you're doing this. You're just. Just letting him know how I felt. Right. He didn't respond to me. And, you know, but then he randomly texts me. He's like, you know, June's coming up soon. You know, do you have this information about the car? And I'm like, well, I was like, okay, yeah, I have. I have some of this paperwork. Yeah, but, like, that's not what we agreed to. And he was like, well, we need to. And I said, well, you know, while you're reading that, did you see any of the other stuff I, like, sent? And again, he's ignoring that part. And so then, you know, he was just telling me, you know, call me after work. And I did. And at first, he's asking about, like, the car because, you know, the tire had just popped, whatever. And I'm like, you know, the tire, car's fine. And he starts. Then we just start talking about, like, how the process of getting a transfer to me. And he's like, well, Kelly, you said that you would have it. You'd be ready by June. I was like, dad, that's not what happened there. There are screenshots. If you confirm me that that is going to happen in the summer. And I was just. I was upset. And then we just started talking about what happened with my sister. And he's like, you better read those text messages. I'm like, how about you read the text message? You're. You've been ignoring me, and you're talking you're talking about all these extra things, but you're not getting to the root of the problem. He's like. He was saying, you're. You're in. You feel you're entitled to this car. I don't know why you're so upset right now. It's like, it's not about entitled Moment granted, I am fortunate enough to be in a position where my parents could do this for me, right? And I'm not, like, saying this car is mine, because it's not. I didn't put any money towards that car. But, like, we had an agreement, and now you're like, you're literally lying and gaslighting me when you didn't agree to the date. You're saying right now. And I was like, dad, it's not even all about the car. Like, what's going on with the stuff with my sister? Like, you're. You're just being. I was just calling him out. You're being just really, like, weird right now. And he was like, mind you, for so many times, my parents had threatened to, like, take the car for me so many, many times. And then, I mean, they already took it that one time, right? But he was like, man, if. If he. He said himself, if you think your mom is evil, wait till you see what I can do. I'll take the car. I'll take the phone. We can end this right now. And, like, one thing my therapist said when I told her, she was like, have you ever said that your mom was evil to your dad? And I was like, I don't think so. Like, I think you could. I don't know if I've thought it before, but, like, given everything, you can kind of say that. But, like, for him to say that, it's like, okay, you know, what's going on, what's wrong, why you're like. You're like. It's just. His behavior is so odd. I don't. I don't understand it. But we were just really bad arguing, and I was like, if you want the car, then take it.

Dev (115:12)

Because, yeah, it's not even worth it at that point.

Kelly (115:14)

Yeah, I'm like, if you. If you. If you wanna. I'll. I'm an adult. I'll figure it out. Yeah, it might be hard. I'm still. I work remote still, right? And it's just like. Just if it's. If it's like that, take the car. It's not even worth it. And so a lot of. So even though. Even though, like, we had this agreement, he oh, no. He said, kelly, sorry. I laid it out again for him why I wanted, like, that time, that specific timeline, so I could get my stuff together. And he was just like, okay, Kelly, get your shit together. And then I think like, a week before, we had, like, an anniversary trip planned out in June. And, you know, I had my money budgeted for that, whatever. And then my mom, mind you, we haven't talked, like, since April. So she texted me. She's like, you need to have. The car needs to be in your name by June 13th. If not, like, you need to bring it back here. And I was just like. Like, fine. So I did every. I sent my dad all the paperwork he needed. All I had to do was just sign a few things, right? And I was like, when we were gonna meet, I told him to come to the dmv, like, where we're at. But, like, no, you gotta. You gotta come there. I'm like, all right, fine. So I was like, we're gonna meet here. We're gonna meet. Meet there first thing in the morning. We'll get this done. So enrolled in car insurance, like, the. During our anniversary trip. Did I pay. Paid it. Whatever, right? I told the day. The day I was enrolled, like, dad, I'm enrolled. Insurance. And the day before, we're supposed to. Or I'm supposed to go out there. He calls me and he's like, kelly, we can't find, like, the title, or I don't know where it's at. I'm gonna have to order a new one. And I'm just like. It's just so crazy. It's like, if we just stuck to the original timeline, you can. Could have realized I don't have the title. Let me go get it or something, right? And it was just. It's just so annoying because it was like. It was like, end all. Be off. The car's not in your name. And look, I did all this, and, like, here's where we're at. So I looked up information about, like, how long does it take? Like, because he said he ordered the 16th. And I looked up, it takes, like, maybe 10 to 15 business days for it to get here. So on that 15th day, no title, he couldn't. He didn't have it. So part of me was like, did he even order it? Is it even really missing? I don't know. I can't. I can't trust you. You're. You're literally lying. And, like, that's kind of new with me and my dad because, like, we try to keep it real. I feel like we do generally. So it was just, again, just, like, really disappointing. I was just, like, so enraged because it's just like, you know, if I. If I messed up in that way, that would be my ass. Like, they. It would be all on me. And then the following week, my grandmother had to go to the hospital again. And she called me. My grandmother called me to let her know the ambulance is coming, whatever. And I call my mind you. I'm. My mom has told me that she hasn't blocked me, but, like. And correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know if you know, but, like, sometimes when, like. And she has an iPhone, when the message is that little arrow to send it. Like, if it's green. I know sometimes, like, it can do. Its signal for. Phone is dead. But it was just an odd amount of time, like, I felt like I was blocked.

Dev (118:20)

Yeah.

Kelly (118:20)

And it was just really weird. So I had to text her on. I'm, like, calling her on messenger. My dad didn't pick up first, so I was, like, texting, Calling her messenger. Like, you need to pick up now. Like, Mimi's on the way to the hospital. And she got back to me. She said she was in the shower. She'd, like, missed it, whatever. But they're telling me, like, I told them, I'll be there. I'm going to leave my house in, like, 30 minutes. And they were telling me, like, no, like, you don't need to come. They were telling you. They were trying to stop me from coming. I was like, you guys aren't gonna tell me that I can't come. My dad was like, I don't want any drama between you and your mom. I was like, you tell. I said, you tell your wife that, like, you keep it to a minimum. Like, put our stuff to the side. Mimi's in the hospital. That's what's more important right now. And again, they really tried to stop me from coming. And I remember I got there and my mom was there. Mind you, we haven't. We haven't spoken since, like, April.

Dev (119:08)

Okay.

Kelly (119:09)

And it was June. This one was. This one was July. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I walk in there and, like, you know, me, my mom, we didn't say anything to each other. But then she was like, well, we'll come outside and we'll talk. And I was like. And she was just kind of updating me on, like, just, like, health stuff with my grandmother, what the. What they're doing, what's yet to come, whatever. And she's Just like, well, well, how are you doing? How's it been? And I'm like. I'm like, I've been better. I didn't know what to say. I feel like this summer has been so, like, just rageful for me, like. Cause we have just like, I'm calling them. No one's picking up. I've called my dad. Like, he wouldn't ignore my calls about the title. It's just like. And it's different. It's different for him. He's really messed up. Because now. And I'll explain this more in a second, but now I see him as, like, equal as my mom, at least how bad it is, because it's always been him above her. But this is a little new. I've never been mad at my dad like this. And so I don't know. But Mimi comes home. My mom leaves. She's not even working either. I would think she would stay there the whole time, right? But she left, and I'm the one who took her home. And, you know, we're eating, and I called my mom, and, like. Well, I'm like, well, listen, I wasn't able to come hang out last week. I was like, can I take my sister out and hang out with her? And she said, no. And I was like, well, why not? And then she hung up the phone. And that, like, I told my grandmother, I was like, listen, I have to go over there. Like, I. I'm tired of this. Like, it feels like when we fight, it's like, what's it called? Like, you're throwing rocks and, like, hiding your hands. Like, no, like, we need to. Like, we need to confront this now. And so I went over there. They didn't know. And what they don't know is that I recorded that conversation. I had, like, an hour and, like, 30 minutes worth of, like, audio file of how that entire thing went. And, I mean, it just. Just explosive. Because 1. They're like, well, why are you here? Like, no one. We told you not to come. No one told you to come here specifically. And I'm like, I'm trying to figure out what the issue is. Like, you're not letting me talk to my sister. You're not letting me hang out with her. Like, what. What is the problem? I know at one point, like, my mom, we were, like, in each other's faces. And I was. I was telling. I was like. I was like, do something. Do something. I feel like she wanted to hit me in that moment. I told her. I was like, I know. I know. You can't. And no, you won't. Just because, like, one, I'm like, I'm an adult now, so, like, you're. If you. If you hit me, there's different. Different stipulations. And two, I can fight back now. So, like, I didn't want her to, but, like, we. Again, we were. If I did this, we could have butted heads, literally. And it kind of. They were kind of. They were trying to try to usher me out. At one point, I think I brought up because I was like, why dad told me that I couldn't come because you guys were fighting. And then she looked at him and she was like, what the. What the is she talking about? What are you telling her? And so I was. I think I realized in that moment that dad had lied. And I think they were fighting. But, like, that wasn't why I couldn't come over. I think it was. I can't remember how she, like, explained it, but basically, if I took my sister out, someone with someone, I think they were both going to be gone, too. Someone wouldn't have been able to watch Wallace. Something like that. It made sense. But I'm just like, okay, why didn't you just say that last week? So that. That makes me feel like, okay, dad, you have your own, like, intentions on, like, apparently, because he and he. When we had been arguing a little bit early in the summer, he was like, I'm not going to ruin my marriage for you. I'm like, you're.

Dev (122:48)

His marriage should have nothing to do with you.

Kelly (122:49)

It does. I'll challenge you on that a little bit. Just because. Bringing it back up. If you. Because again, he's told me in confidence that he doesn't like the way my mom treats me. He doesn't like how it is. So if you hate that, why won't you do something about it? Like, it's. It's. It's not only making my life miserable. It is. And, like, he's. Again, he's had so much time to like, to change him. Just like, if you want to live like that, then fine, right? But we had to, like, I was like, mom, this is. That's what he told me. So, like, he's. He's lying to one of us. It was funny in the moment. I mean, just like, full volume. Like, we're. Really explosive argument. Just hateful stuff. My mom, I told her how. She's like, you're not picking up the phone. That's why I'm, like, blowing it up. Like, I'm not. We're already not in a good, like, way. So if I'm calling you, it's important. And she's like, kelly, I'm. I'm. I'm. You're not blocked. I'm watching you call. I'm declining, or I'm just letting it ring. And I'm just like, what is. What's wrong with you? And, you know, she said if. If I. She's like, if I'm fighting with someone and they do something wrong, you know, it's like, if you die, I don't care. I ain't got to talk. I don't got to talk to you. So that was just, like, weird, because it felt like it was like, you're saying that to me, like, if you died. That's how I took that.

Dev (124:11)

So this all was happening in July.

Kelly (124:13)

End of July last month.

Dev (124:14)

And that's where everything is standing now, still. Was that, like, the last interaction you had with them?

Kelly (124:21)

Yes.

Dev (124:23)

I.

Kelly (124:25)

Again, you see how crazy if a summer it's been. I can't even, like, wrap it all up and that. And that's what's hard. Like, we're. We're still. Nothing's. There's no pin on anything right now. I feel like we're all just like.

Dev (124:36)

And the thing is, there might never be.

Kelly (124:37)

I don't think so either.

Dev (124:38)

You know, like, it's not something I feel like it seems like, you know, obviously the whole story with them goes in waves.

Kelly (124:46)

Yeah.

Dev (124:46)

You know, and it's unfortunate and it sucks, but it's almost like you have to find a place for yourself where it's healthiest for you. And if that means not speaking to them, then that's what it has to be. And obviously there's. There has to be a way for you to navigate it with your siblings, that you can still have some sort of relationship with them and maybe just be distant with your parents or cordial or whatever, whatever it has to be so that you can maintain that relationship that means something to you.

Kelly (125:13)

Yes.

Dev (125:14)

But I mean, at this point, it's like, there. Did she bite you?

Kelly (125:17)

Yeah, it's fine at this point.

Dev (125:21)

You know, it just. It's something where you have to navigate what's best for you and your mental health. And they are very lucky and fortunate that you're a very forgiving person, because a lot of people would hate their guts.

Kelly (125:34)

I think that's where I'm at right now. Yeah. I think, like, I've. Again, I've. I've. I've shown compassion, and it's okay.

Dev (125:43)

To go through different emotions. Never be hard on yourself about that because they've put you through it, you know, so you have to give yourself some grace.

Kelly (125:52)

Yes.

Dev (125:53)

With all the different whirlwind of emotions that you're going to be feeling. But I think it's at a point where you need to stop giving them grace and give yourself grace.

Kelly (126:04)

Yeah. I think that was. That was. I think, like a week leading up to this, I was kind of like, not that I still want to do it, but a part of me was like, you know, is this gonna. Like, how are they gonna feel? Or, like, how is it gonna affect them? Or, like, the one thing, if they ever do see this. Right. Who knows when? But it's gonna. I know the first thing's gonna be like, you guys, or you weren't thinking about us, but I'm like, you know, you didn't think about me at all during any of this stuff, like, remotely any. Again, like, this is your life and your truth. Yeah.

Dev (126:35)

And there's so many other people that experience things similar to this.

Kelly (126:40)

Yes.

Dev (126:41)

And deserve to feel like they're not alone. I mean, the amount of times throughout this story that you've said that you felt isolated. Imagine someone when you were that age being able to hear this and feeling not so alone and not so isolated. Like you're going to change someone's life.

Kelly (126:56)

Yes.

Dev (126:57)

You know, and you. They couldn't provide that for you at that time of your life. So if you can provide that to someone you don't even know, that's incredible. That's why you're here, you know, to share your truth and to help other people. It's not to. You're not here to bash them, to make them battle, look bad on the Internet. You're here to share your story, to help people and to exactly help yourself. You deserve to be able to tell your story.

Kelly (127:20)

Yeah, I. I think it's just been hard, like, wrestling with it just because at least like. Like the. The physical stuff didn't bother me too much because I was able to still. And I'm still able to rationalize it. I shouldn't. Right. Because that was pure abuse. But like, at least that stuff, it's because I did something wrong. Now it feels like you're just punishing me for who I am as a person.

Dev (127:45)

It's horrible.

Kelly (127:46)

Yeah. And so I just. I expected when I to come on here that things would be kind of wrapped up, but it's. Again, it's gotten significantly worse, I think. I don't. I don't know what happens next, but I. I am trying to figure out how that really, again, balancing how I, like, I'm with my siblings. If I don't have to talk to you guys, I won't. Like, just the other day, I'm trying to get my sister, take her out. Yo Gabba gabba lives, coming to where we're at, and I just want to. She loves it, you know, want to take her. And it was almost a battle just trying to get that together. And my mom's like, you don't gotta. You need to be calling your father. We don't have. You don't have to talk about me. You can talk about this through your dad. I'm like, I'm literally calling him. He won't pick up the phone.

Dev (128:30)

And I think it's one of those things that as long as your siblings know how you feel about them and that you're always there, you know, that's the most important thing. And I feel like the next part in your healing journey should be all about you and not about them, not about how they feel. You know, I feel like your whole life has been focused around that 100%.

Kelly (128:49)

The. The only thing I'm somewhat nervous about is the day, because I don't. I don't know if they'll see that. I don't even think a podcast like this would come across their algorithm. Right. But all it takes is, like, someone who may recognize me. I don't know. I don't really. I'm not. I'm worried that they'll use this as, like, a way to, like, not let me see my siblings. And I don't know how that looks. And I am prepared for that. But again, like, I don't know what. Like, I don't know the laws. I don't. I don't know how that works again. And they're not. I told my sister. I was like, if mom lays a hand on you, like, and if you see something having questionable. Wallace, you tell me, and we will. I will step in, because I'll. Someone should have stepped in when I was a kid. And, like, God forbid they go through. I don't think. I don't think they will. But also, I don't. I don't know.

Dev (129:43)

You know, you can only do your best. You know, it's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.

Kelly (129:48)

Yeah.

Dev (129:49)

You know, it's like. It's almost like you're trying to break this cycle, but then you're also trying to live your life. You're still how old are you?

Kelly (129:55)

I'm 24. Yeah, I'm just starting. Exactly. So it's like.

Dev (129:58)

It's a lot. It's a lot to juggle. And then on top of it, you're trying to heal, you know, and then still trying to have a relationship with them and your siblings, and it's so much.

Kelly (130:08)

Yeah, it's. It's been. This summer has been really hard. I haven't been depressed like, this. I wouldn't say, like, since, like, my senior year of high school. I haven't felt. I haven't felt like this.

Dev (130:17)

It feels helpless. It's like, what do you do?

Kelly (130:20)

Yeah.

Dev (130:20)

There is no answer, I don't think. And I think that's the most frustrating part of it all.

Kelly (130:24)

I really want to come on here and, like, tell you this is the end. And unfortunately, I just. I know it's gonna look new, but I just. I don't know. I wish I had, like, a definitive answer right now. All I get, literally all I can ask for. And I told him this. I was like, I don't care what happens after what our relationship looks like after you let me see my siblings, and that's it. And of course, you know, I'm gonna have my relationship with my grandmother, but they can't control that. But that's. That's all I want. Literally. Dev, if my parents gave me a stipend or something, I'll take the kids from you. Like, if you don't. Sometimes it feels like they don't want to be parents in a way. I don't know. And I don't know. But if I could just. If I had the money to just take them, I know how I felt growing up. They definitely don't deserve that. Especially when Wallace was born. I remember I told you I was mad, but then I remember when my mom showed me him on FaceTime. I'm, like, crying. Like, I've never cried from, like, half. Like, this is. That's my brother. And I just. I just want what's best for them. And even, of course, even after all this, like, I used to say, I still want, like, a relationship with my parents or, like, maybe an apology and we can move forward. But now I think, because the summer's just been so ugly. I don't know. Cause sometimes it's too late. I feel like it's too late for sorry sometimes. And that's what hurts the most. Like, I thought I would always have, like, a capacity to forgive, but now.

Dev (131:49)

It'S like, well, life also goes through different eras. You know, and right now, that just might not be where they're at and where you're at. This episode is brought to you by.

Kelly (132:05)

Ulta Beauty Holiday cheer is here. And Ulta Beauty has gifts for everyone on your list.

Dev (132:11)

Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily.

Kelly (132:15)

Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful.

Dev (132:28)

Ulta Beauty gifting happens here, and that's okay. And I wouldn't hold hate in your heart, you know, but I would just. Just realize within your own mind, it's not the time.

Kelly (132:41)

Yeah.

Dev (132:41)

You know, and that might change in a couple years, five years, ten years, who knows? But right now, you might not be able to provide that forgiveness. And that's not bad either. You're just not there. And they're not reciprocating that. They're not giving you a reason to want to forgive. Like, and there's nothing wrong with any. The way that anybody chooses to handle anything when it comes to their healing and their process. Like I said before, like, just don't ever beat yourself up about that or feel like maybe if I did this or that, like, none of that is on you. That's not a decision you needed to make. And I think, like I said before, I feel like your point of coming here, I don't think it needs to be. To have an answer, but more so just to spread awareness and speak your truth and speak your story.

Kelly (133:27)

Yes.

Dev (133:28)

And to know that you're going to help other people, young kids, because there's so many kids that feel isolated and like, they can't talk to their own parents.

Kelly (133:38)

Yeah.

Dev (133:38)

And it's shitty and it sucks. They need to know, like, it's not that it's normal, because it's not. But there's other people out there that understand it.

Kelly (133:47)

Yes. I. I hope that if, like, of course I know people my age or younger would probably watch this. But, like, I hope, like, if parents ever come across, I'm sure they're part of your audience. Right. But, like, don't. Just, like, if you're not, if you can't, if you want to have a child and you don't think you could love them through anything, or at least specifically them being gay, their sexuality, whatever, like, you don't need to have one. Like, you. My parents feel like bullies. It's like, it's like you're it's like bullying and oh, it's horrible, you know.

Dev (134:18)

And I think that there is a different type of hurt and pain in something like that because, you know, like you said, it's like the abuse is physical. You're saying some things and doing some things. It's like that might be the emotional aspect of the abuse, but then having the people that are supposed to love you most not even be able to accept who you are because of who you love is pathetic.

Kelly (134:42)

Yeah, very.

Dev (134:43)

Like you're gonna let that be a factor of why we can't see eye to eye and have a loving relationship. It makes no sense. Like people need to get a grip.

Kelly (134:55)

1, 101. One more thing. I do, I do want to say, yeah, it still has to do with it, but it's a little random. I. Yesterday we went to the, the African American history museum in D.C. and we were only able to get through. Like I didn't realize how massive. I don't know if you've been or if you've seen the layout, but like it's. We only went through like the first floor and that's like in the basement. And I didn't realize how intricate it would be. But like, I think black people specifically being homophobic is really. I hate it. I mean any homophobia is stupid, right? But like, as a people, we've already been like discriminated against, horribly treated bad again for like who we are. I can't control like my skin color just like I can't control like my sexuality. And knowing that like we our people have been through that same thing and then you're just doing it again, it's like you're supposed to know what this feels like.

Dev (136:07)

Right?

Kelly (136:07)

Granted, the reasons are different. Why? You know, people are racist and there's homophobia, but like, well, no, they're kind of intertwined. But anyway, it come that coming from my mom, especially when she talked about as a kid, she like when my mom, she said she's a dark skinned woman and my mom is beautiful, you know, like I look just like her. You know, she used to just get made fun of as a kid for like by, by her own other black, you know, people, people just as dark as her and just getting made fun of for her skin color. And it's like, okay, you know what it's like to be treated like crap from people who are supposed to like be there for you in some way? Why are you perpetuating the same thing on me? Right. Again, different reasons, different circumstances, but somewhat One of the same. Yeah. And again, I just think, I think black homophobia is just really, like, it's really, it's disgusting because we, it breaks my heart. Right? I know it's kind of random, but it's just like when you just see everything. We saw so much yesterday. And again, we only. We didn't even, like, make it through the first four all the way. And it's just like, it just puts things into perspective. Yeah. And it just, it really sucks. I don't know. I know, I know it's kind of random, but.

Dev (137:17)

Not at all.

Kelly (137:18)

I just, I don't know. I, I, again, I hope that if my parents, they do come across this, they watch the whole thing. And again, I'll say this to them, don't, don't. If you watch this, if you see it, don't talk to me until you watch the whole thing. And, like, just, I don't know, maybe get a grip and see it. But who knows, Deb? They might see this, might be like sheep and just see right through it. And all they see is it's all about them. It's all about them.

Dev (137:42)

And you can't take any of it personally.

Kelly (137:43)

No.

Dev (137:44)

And you shouldn't. And, you know, I tell everybody this, and this goes beyond just what you spoke about here, but anything that anybody says, you know, whether it's comments or from this video in general, in life, you know, people that don't agree with you, whatever it might be, you're not on this earth to live for other people. Like, you are here for you. And it is okay to be selfish. You know, you need to find your purpose, you need to find your happiness, and whatever that may be, you do it. And never allow someone else's opinion to steer you in a different direction.

Kelly (138:21)

100%, like always.

Dev (138:22)

You know, we, I think we live in a life, especially now with social media, it's like validation and people pleasing and being accepted and this, that and the other. Fudge, all of that. None of it matters.

Kelly (138:30)

Yeah.

Dev (138:31)

Seriously, like, the only thing we can do is bring, like, light and love. And I feel like by. I always say, like, that's one of the reason I created this platform, so that people just have a little bit more authenticity.

Kelly (138:42)

Yes.

Dev (138:42)

And things are spoken about that are usually brushed under the rug or filtered in a way. Like, I don't. None of that needs to matter.

Kelly (138:50)

Yes.

Dev (138:51)

And I feel like the only thing I hope for you and all of the people that come on here is that you guys just stay so authentic to you, you know, And I think that it's so easy, especially when you're raised in an environment where you're just beaten down and beaten down mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever it is. It's so incredible to me.

Kelly (139:08)

Yes.

Dev (139:09)

That you guys are able to sit across from me and be these amazing people. Really. Because it could. You could turn out the complete opposite. Angry, bitter, mean. Like, not wanting to help others and the fact that you're still so genuine and, like, you might not think that you're healed and maybe the situation with them isn't. And healing. The healing journey is never actually done.

Kelly (139:29)

I don't think.

Dev (139:30)

You're always changing and developing and healing as we go on every day. But you should be so proud of the person that you are. Like, you are just so kind and genuine and since sincere and. And you still have so much love to give when love wasn't shown to you in the ways that it should be. And I just. You should give yourself a lot of credit for that.

Kelly (139:50)

Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm trying, trust me, I've. I'm trying to, like, not lean into that because it gets. It gets dark.

Dev (139:57)

Negative.

Kelly (139:57)

Yeah.

Dev (139:58)

And, like, you don't need to be around anything negative. And you've tried. That's all you can do. Stop trying.

Kelly (140:05)

Yeah.

Dev (140:06)

Focus on you.

Kelly (140:07)

100.

Dev (140:07)

That would be my advice. Not that I'm saying to take it. That's what. But that's what I'm giving.

Kelly (140:10)

No, I'm. I'm going to. I'm ready to, like, again. This. This has been the most on summer ever. I want, like, I want to have fun. I want to, like, be happy and, like, find my own way. So I'm just gonna try to accept, like, whatever this new chapter is and, like, move forward. Because, like, there are times where I didn't think I. I didn't think I'd make it past 25. I thought I would, like, honestly just kill myself at some point. But, like, I have. Have so much more to live for it than, like, I realized. So, like, I just have to, like, lock in and, like, accept that if they don't want to be a part of it, then that's. It's on them. It really is their loss, so.

Dev (140:44)

And they're missing out because you're amazing. Truly.

Kelly (140:47)

Well, thank you for giving me the platform to do that, I think. Of course.

Dev (140:50)

And if you ever write a book. Yeah, Let me know. Send it my way. I'd be happy to promote it for you. Talk about it. Whatever you want, I think. Honestly. Of course, of course. Thank you this holiday.

Kelly (141:00)

Discover meaningful gifts for everyone on your list at K. Not sure where to start? Our jewelry experts are here to help you find or create the perfect gift in store or online. Book your appointment today and unwrap Love this season only at K.