My Parents are Swingers

Summary

We're All Insane: Episode Summary – "My Parents are Swingers"

Host: Devorah Roloff
Guest: Alex
Release Date: April 7, 2025

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Introduction to Alex’s Story

In the poignant episode titled "My Parents are Swingers," guest Alex bravely shares her tumultuous journey navigating a deeply complex and abusive relationship with her parents. This raw and unfiltered account delves into themes of familial dysfunction, abuse, mental health struggles, and the arduous path to self-healing.

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Childhood and Family Dynamics

Alex begins by painting a vivid picture of her early life, highlighting the profound impact of her parents’ relationship on her own psychological well-being.

[00:45] Alex: "I think that the best place to start is who my parents are. Because my parents are really complicated and I feel like in turn that complicated me."

Her mother, a strong and resilient woman from the Philippines, immigrated to the United States to build a new life with Alex’s father, who was stationed overseas in the military.

[00:55] Alex: "She left her whole family behind and moved to America and they started a family together and she had nothing."

Despite her mother's strength, Alex felt a pervasive sense of neglect and emotional distance growing up.

[02:17] Alex: "I don't have any like connection with them. But she's always been like her whole life, she's always told me like, I did this all for you guys."

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Adolescence and Rising Tensions

As Alex transitions into her teenage years, the strain in her relationship with her parents intensifies. Physical and psychological abuse becomes a recurring ordeal.

[01:25] Alex: "I have memories of, you know, the police interviewing me for abuse and asking if my parents hit me, and they did."

Her brother, who was seven years younger, was treated as the "golden child," a stark contrast to Alex’s turbulent upbringing.

[04:00] Alex: "And my brother is. And my brother is, from my perspective... he was like their golden child."

This favoritism fostered resentment and feelings of inadequacy in Alex, contributing to her behavioral issues during childhood.

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Moving Out and the Military Years

At around nineteen, seeking escape from her oppressive home environment, Alex enlists in the military. This decision marks a pivotal shift in her life, providing temporary respite from her parents' control.

[14:15] Alex: "I ended up joining the military. I was stationed really far from home and I met my first husband there."

Marriage brings its own set of challenges, but it also offers a brief period of improved relations with her parents while living away from home.

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Returning Home and Shifting Relationships

Upon returning to visit her parents, Alex initially experiences a semblance of normalcy and closeness, especially as her parents embrace her role as a grandmother.

[16:17] Alex: "She was super good with kids. So when my son was born... it felt like she was proud of me for having my own family."

However, underlying tensions resurface as Alex becomes aware of unsettling changes in her parents' behavior, hinting at deeper secrets.

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Discovering Parents’ Swinging Lifestyle

The turning point comes when Alex uncovers disturbing evidence of her parents' swingers lifestyle, shattering her previously idealized perception of their marriage.

[05:48] Taylor: "And it definitely does come up later in life, for sure."

[21:54] Alex: "I think I just won my taxes. Yeah, I just switched to H and R Block..."

Ignoring advertisements, Alex’s revelations about her parents' swinging activities reveal the extent of their deceit and manipulation.

[16:29] Alex: "There was this Gmail notification about their swinging club... I was like, oh, my God. And I didn't click on it."

Further evidence surfaces through incriminating photos and videos shared inadvertently, confirming her parents' betrayal and leading to profound emotional distress.

[46:08] Alex: "When I looked at the photos, I realized that, like, that wasn't my mom in the pictures. It was someone else."

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Attempts at Reconciliation and Final Break

Alex makes several attempts to reconcile with her parents, but each effort is met with manipulation, emotional abuse, and an inability to establish genuine communication.

[56:20] Taylor: "Do you think that he was actually beating. Do you think that."

[63:44] Alex: "I have no clue..."

Her parents’ inconsistent behavior, characterized by periods of closeness followed by sudden withdrawal, forces Alex to confront the toxic cycle and ultimately decide to sever ties for her own well-being.

[64:27] Taylor: "He picked out her dress... it was so weird."

[64:54] Alex: "And my parents, after I graduated, I left like right away. I joined the military."

Despite brief moments of connection, such as her parents' visits and apologies, the underlying dysfunction prevents lasting reconciliation.

[83:17] Taylor: "And you're able to reflect back and be like, my parents gave me a B and C... but some things are more bad."

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Impact on Personal Life and Mental Health

The prolonged abuse and manipulation have left deep scars on Alex’s mental health. She navigates depression, anxiety, and the struggle to establish a stable, loving environment for her own children.

[03:45] Alex: "I did a lot around the house for my parents, and he really didn't have to do anything."

Therapy and medication play crucial roles in her healing process, enabling her to break free from the cycle of abuse and toxic familial expectations.

[95:28] Alex: "I have a really good life without them in it."

Alex emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and prioritizing her mental health over maintaining harmful relationships.

[64:54] Taylor: "And the thing is, like, she had said that she wanted to come back to the States with my dad and then stay in the US and, like, he goes back and they get a divorce. That was her plan."

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Conclusion and Reflections

Alex’s story culminates in her decision to permanently cut off contact with her parents, recognizing the necessity of this choice for her and her family's well-being. She reflects on the lack of closure and the enduring impact of her upbringing, underscoring the importance of self-healing and the pursuit of a healthier, happier life.

[98:52] Taylor: "But they still talk to your brother?"

[99:19] Alex: "It's something that hurt me so bad when she said it."

Alex advocates for the necessity of breaking free from toxic relationships, highlighting the profound personal growth achieved through her painful experiences.

[103:35] Alex: "I've always been depressed. I've always been... dealing with... infinite sadness."

Her narrative serves as a testament to resilience and the transformative power of self-care and mental health treatment.

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Notable Quotes

• Alex [00:45]: "I think that the best place to start is who my parents are. Because my parents are really complicated and I feel like in turn that complicated me."

• Taylor [97:55]: "You have to accept that we don't always get closure. But the most important thing is where you are and how you feel and how your life is."

• Alex [103:35]: "I've always been depressed... dealing with infinite sadness."

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Final Thoughts

In "My Parents are Swingers," Alex's courageous disclosure offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the devastating effects of familial abuse and manipulation. Her journey from a troubled childhood to a place of self-empowerment and healing provides both inspiration and solace to those grappling with similar struggles. This episode underscores the significance of setting boundaries, seeking therapy, and prioritizing one's mental health in the face of overwhelming adversity.

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Note: The timestamps referenced correspond to the moments within the provided transcript where the quotes occur.

Transcript

[Alex]

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[Alex]

I think that the best place to start is who my parents are. Because my parents are really complicated and I feel like in turn that complicated me. That's why we're in this situation. So my mom, she's always been, I would tell you honestly that she's a really strong person. She's incredible. She's been through so much. Her whole life has been like. There are a lot of things that we have in common. She's from another country. My parents met when my dad was stationed overseas. He was in the military and she just, they met. She left her whole family behind and moved to America and they started a family together and she had nothing. You know what I mean? Like, she, she's been through a lot and I knew that growing up that she really missed her family and stuff and all she had was us like my dad and me and my brother. And it just, it's hard. I could feel that from her that she was upset about it and she often, I think she only visited the Philippines where they met. Maybe I would say like it felt like very few times I've been there. One time when I was in middle school or I think late elementary school and that was it. Like I had no connection there. I grew up here.

[Taylor]

So. Do you have family over there still?

[Alex]

I do and I'm not in contact with them. Like, I don't, I don't have any contact with them at all. I don't have any like connection with them. But she's, she's always been like her whole life, she's always told. My whole life she's told me like, I did this all for you guys, for you and your brother and your dad. And that's why I'm here. And she's, she's really strong. She really is. They've always had, like, this perfect marriage is what they showed to me and my brother. And, like, I think that's why everything that's happened, it was kind of, like, disarming for me. It's like, oh, that. That reality of my parents, perfect marriage is totally shattered. And I will never get that back. Like, I'll never. I can't say that I've had ever, like, a normal relationship with my parents. It's always been really strained and really painful. I will tell you, like, I've been very spoiled, like, my whole life. My parents gave me everything. Everything I wanted, they would buy, you know, and it was great. But as. I think that's how they showed their love. But as far as, like, I think that's why they'll. They'll say. They'll tell you, like, we did the best we could. You know, we weren't perfect parents, but we did the best we could. But as far as, like, my connection with my parents, it was always very strange since I was a kid. And, like, as a. I would say second and third grade, I have memories of, you know, the police interviewing me for abuse and asking if, you know, my parents hit me, and they did. There was a lot of physical abuse ever since I was younger. Just my dad was away a lot of the time because he was always deployed with the military. And my mom was with me alone a lot, and there was. It just felt like she didn't like me. Do you know what I mean? I know, like, she. She took care of me and stuff, and she worked really hard, but, like, at the end of the day, like, she disliked me. Like, I was just an inconvenience to her, you know, and, you know, you. You pick up on that as a kid, and I think I carried that for a while. Yeah, for sure. And as I got older, you know, my brother was born. We're seven years apart, and my brother is, from my perspective. And as simply as I can put it, he was like their golden child. So my brother can do no wrong. He's, like their obvious favorite. You know, they've never laid a hand on him. They've never, like, as far as I know, like, yelled at him. He's never really been in trouble. And granted, like, I was a problem child. I really was. I acted out a whole lot. And he didn't really do a lot of that. I did. But, like, there was such a difference in the way that they treated me and him. Like, I did a lot of the work around the house for my parents, and he really didn't have to do anything. And. And I noticed that, like, you know, talking to other people is like, you know, our brothers didn't have a lot to do, but as women and the girls in the family, we were put to a lot of, like, you know, we had a lot of chores to do. We had to live up to certain standards. And I noticed that with friends that have brothers, and that's how they were raised, but in a way, like, it always felt to me, like they wanted to pit us against each other. They didn't want us to like each other. But my brother is really, really close to me. I really care about him in a lot of way. Like, I'm really happy that they didn't treat him the same way they treated me, because it was. It was so bad. Yeah.

[Taylor]

And it definitely does come up later in life, for sure.

[Alex]

Yeah. And we're still close. My brother and I still talk. But I would say just as I got older, he was maybe, like, entering. Leaving middle school, entering high school, I was leaving the house. Things were, like, really, really bad. Gosh, there was. I'd been kicked out of the house multiple times. You know, things really hit a boiling point when I had my first boyfriend. That was a really big point of contention between me and my parents. They didn't like me hanging out with him. They didn't like me going out. I wasn't allowed to leave or do anything with him, which I get. I understand that. But, like, there were. The big points that I had with them were, like, there was a lot of. I would say my dad stopped deploying overseas when he became a recruiter, and then he was home 24 7. You know, he was working from home. Some days he would go into the office. Other days he would stop by high schools certain days, but he was home a lot more. And that was, like, a changing point because for me, I grew up with him being away from the house. And then for my brother, he grew up with my dad being present all the time. And it wasn't. It wasn't that. Like, that did change a lot, because the physical abuse for me came from both my mom and my dad in middle school. Starting middle school, my parents started sending me to my grandparents every summer. And I would spend the entire summer working with my grandma. And I love my grandma. Like, it wasn't like, I got sent to my grandma, and I was working with her, and it was miserable, and I hated it, and I wanted to come home. Like, I love my grandma. We're still very close. I Call her all the time. I should probably call her more, but she's my. My dad's mom on my dad's side of the family. And just, you know, things that, as I get into it, like, I've. I've learned so much about my parents that really, like, make sense. Like, all the things I saw growing up, it clicked into place for me. And it's like, this makes perfect sense to me, you know? But it always felt like they were sending me away every summer so they didn't have to deal with me. My brother stayed home in the summers. I was always gone. And I would come back, I would fly back at, like, the week before school started. And then it was just silent treatment for a while. You know, like, the weird thing about my parents is, like, they had, gosh, what do you call it? Psychological warfare. It felt like, like there were months I would go months, like, not saying anything to my parents. My parents wouldn't acknowledge me. And it was very weird because I would have, you know, my mom would make dinner and she would bring food to my room and stuff, but they wouldn't talk to me. Like, my dad would wake me up for school and tell me the bus is coming, but I wouldn't be spoken to. I was like. It felt like I was being excluded from my own family.

[Taylor]

And did you ever find out why that was?

[Alex]

No, not really. And it happened again in adulthood pretty regularly, and it hurt every time. And, you know, it just kind of like, stuck with me is like, my parents don't like me.

[Morgan]

Right.

[Alex]

You know, like, I mean.

[Taylor]

Yeah, like that. It makes sense why you would feel that way.

[Alex]

Yeah, they just dislike me. And that's kind of just how I felt my whole life with them. Like, why would you send your kid away for two months for the summer and then just not talk to them for a while? And after. After I would come back from being with grandma after a while, like, they would slowly start, like, bringing me back into the family. It felt like. Like I was part of it again. And then at the end of the school year, I'd leave again. It's just this weird cycle for me, you know?

[Taylor]

And you would watch them being way closer with your brother basically right in front of you.

[Alex]

Yeah, absolutely. The whole standard, like, how was school? You know, things like that. It wasn't always like, that extreme, but it was there still.

[Taylor]

Did your brother ever say anything to you about it growing up or.

[Alex]

No, no, no. He was. And I think a part of me, it hurts that he's still close with Them, he's still in contact with them. And that, that bothers me a lot. But I really love him and if he needs to have a relationship with my parents, then that's for him. And that's not. I'm not going to get in between that.

[Taylor]

You know, and it's hard because when the dynamics are so different. Like he's never felt what you felt.

[Alex]

No, never.

[Taylor]

So it's just like for him there's probably a part of him that it doesn't make sense. Like it's so hard for him to understand because he didn't get that treatment.

[Alex]

Right.

[Taylor]

I just can't understand like why.

[Alex]

Yeah. And honestly, like I think about it, I've thought about it a lot and I'm sure he's gone through like his own.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Personal issues with. Even how I was treated because it happened in front of him. I'm sure he has some issues with it too. Like that affected him growing up too because. Because there was a lot of screaming, a lot of beating, a lot of, you know, kicking me out of the house. You know, just constant. It was like any little thing would blow up into a days long fight where, you know, there was a lot of abuse and a lot of like yelling in the house. And I remember talking to my mom as recent as like 2016. She was on the phone with me trying to like apologize and I'll get into that later. But she was like, I want to apologize for the way I treated you. I'm sorry. And I asked her like, because this is a question that like I've always wondered is like, why did you treat my brother differently? Why was he different than me? And she goes, well. And she said it in such a nonchalant way. It was so. It hurt me so bad when she said it. She said he reacted poorly to the way he saw us treating you. He hadn't. He would shake and like cry when he saw that we, whenever, like we were beating you or yelling at you whenever we raised our voice. So we didn't want to do that to him. And I was like, but you kept doing it to me. And I don't. That hurt so bad. It was just like I cried, I was shaking. Why are you still doing this to me? And you did that when I was younger than him. Yeah.

[Taylor]

And I just think it's very unfortunate because I don't think a lot of, you know, everybody has a, Every parent has a different way of disciplining.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Their children. But I don't think that people oftentimes understand the damage that that can cause, you know, not even in that moment when you're a child, but just going on and throughout life and experiencing being treated different from your own sibling. Like, I can see how that would just constantly make you wonder and feel like I was never good enough.

[Alex]

Right.

[Taylor]

Or what is wrong with me or what was wrong with me.

[Alex]

I'm different, right? I'm different. I'm being treated differently. And that was my issue with all of this. Like, I've spent my adult life like trying to recover from them and like cope with or understand why I was treated this way. Why was it me? You know, And I have, I have kids of my own, you know, and I always decided like, I would never yell or scream or hit them. And that's just the way it's going to be. And it's worked out really well so far. Like, yeah, I just don't want mine to have to grow up and go to therapy because of me. And like, I don't want to be the topic of conversation between my kids and their therapist, you know, so it's just I, I wonder sometimes, like if I would be a different person if I were raised differently. If I were raised like my brother, we both were raised the same way. Like, what person would I be? Like, would I have gone through some of the struggles and the interpersonal relationships and the issues I've had in my own life if I had been raised differently? And I'll never know. And that's okay. But my parents, after I graduated, I left like right away. I joined the military. I think I stayed for a little bit. I had like a part time job at like Walmart and Pizza Hut and things like that. And I'm like, this isn't working for me. You know, I'm tired of like, you know, this not working out. And I ended up joining the military.

[Taylor]

So was that at 18?

[Alex]

It was. I think I was 19. Okay, maybe 19, 20 years old, I joined the military. I was stationed really far from home and I met my first husband there. We, we really hit it off. We had to just. I was living in New Mexico at the time. We had our son and I still like went back to visit my parents and that was when things were kind of good. I realized like, I had a much better relationship with my parents in adulth. And if we were far apart, we're.

[Taylor]

Gonna say the distance.

[Alex]

Yeah. And things started to get normal. Like every once in a while we'd call my mom and we'd catch up and I'd catch up with the family. I would go back to visit and we'd hang out. And my mom is super good with kids. So when my son was born and he was really young, like, she was just the happiest I've ever seen her. She's really good with kids. She loved him. She doted on him constantly, you know, and it was really great seeing this side of her because it was the first time that she was good to me and it felt like she was proud of me for having my own family, you know, and that was. That was just game changing. And for a while, things were really good. There were things that happened that I didn't understand but make sense now where I'm standing. Like, my mom would call and I would get a. I would get a friend request on social media from some guy that was like 20 years older than me. I'm like, who is this dude? You know? And I'm like, okay. I just. I would just deny it or block him or whatever. And I would get a phone call from my mom, like hours later saying, don't add him. He's just a weird guy. And I'm like, I don't. What? What are you talking about? She was like in hysterics over it. She would be like, don't talk to him. Don't even, like, open any of his messages. And it was just random, Just totally random. I had no idea who this guy was. I knew he was based on his profile. I saw that he was where my parents were currently living.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Alex]

So like, I was like, okay, this is strange. And I'm like, mom, don't worry about it. I didn't even add him. He hasn't messaged me. It's okay. And she goes, well, if he does message you, don't listen to anything he says. And I'm like, okay. One time I came home visiting my parents and my dad was like showing off this new painting that he got over his bed, over their bed. And it was a painting of my mom in lingerie. It was so weird. She had lingerie on in this provocative pose. Like a huge painting. It was gigantic. And it was. It covered like the length of their king size bed. It was huge. I'm like, oh, my God, this is so weird.

[Taylor]

Too much for me.

[Alex]

Yeah. I was like, oh, that's great. And he was like, you know, he would like, brag about it to people and he's like, I got this commissioned. And, you know, they painted this from a photo. And I'm like, okay, cool. You know, that's Great. But, like, what? So going back to visit them, everything was fine and stuff, but things started to change. My brother was still living with them. He was still in school. I visited them once, and I told my dad, I'm like, hey, I need to use your computer. I have to print out my boarding ticket to go back home. And he's like, sure, go ahead. I went upstairs into his bedroom. I'm using his laptop. And, you know, you get this. I wasn't snooping. I swear I wasn't snooping. But there was, like, this Gmail notification that popped up in the bottom of the screen, and it was, like, about their swinging club that they were part of and stuff. And I was like, oh, my God. And I didn't click on it. I didn't look at it. You know, I was just like, let me just do what I need to do, get my flight ticket printed. And I'm talking to my brother. He's probably in high school at this point. He's older. And I was like, did you. Are mom and dad swingers? Are they, you know, like, is there anything weird going on? He was, like, really nonchalant about it, too. He was like, oh, yeah? You didn't know that? I'm like, no. And he was. I thought you knew. They've been doing this for a long time. And this was maybe, gosh, like 2013, maybe 2014. And I was like, okay, that's. You know, things are starting to make sense. Like, the. The guy adding me on Facebook, things like that. And looking back, like, my parents have always had very close relationships to neighbors. Like, we. My dad was in the military, so we lived in different places around the US and everywhere we lived, they were always, like, really close with a certain neighbor couple. You know, they were hanging out every weekend. They would have, like, they would drink together on the weekends. And they were just constantly with them, you know, And I didn't think anything of it. I just never noticed it, I guess. But I was probably stuck in my own world as a teenager, you know? But there was always. The one thing every relationship they had with their neighbors had in common was they was. There was always, like, a huge fallout. Like, my mom was like, we don't talk to them anymore. Don't talk to them. Like, if I had a social media and they had. They were added on it because they were like, family friends. They're like, delete them. Don't talk to them anymore. And I remember, like, right before I enlisted in the military, they were really close to neighbors that they were they would stay up all night partying. And when I was visiting or, you know, living with them, they were in the garage all night drinking till late hours in the morning. And my bedroom was right above the garage so I could hear them. Like, I would wake up in the middle of the night and still hear them, like, drinking and having a good time down there. And out of nowhere. This was after I enlisted and I came back home to visit. They were like, we don't talk to them anymore. My mom was like, delete them from everything. Block them from everything. Don't listen to anything they say. And I was like, what? This doesn't make sense to me. Like, they were. This is always happening with close family friends. Like, we get really close to them, we know their kids. Like, my brother was friends with them and their son, you know, and then out of nowhere, it's just like, we don't talk to them anymore. And I found out later it was because they were swinging with this couple. And the story I was told by the couple themselves was that my mom was sleeping with her husband without her or my dad around, and that's why they stopped. There was a big argument about it. And, you know, it crossed boundaries. And, you know, I wonder if, like, that's even true or if that was the case every time that they would stop hanging out with a couple friend, you know, and it just. I don't mind that they're swingers. That's totally fine. I don't mind swinging. It's not for me. But if that's what they want to do, that's okay. I'm not going to judge them for it. But, like, I guess, like the. My entire life, they had this, like, united front that they were. They were living the perfect marriage. They, you know, every. Every year on their anniversary was a big, huge deal. My dad did. He went above and beyond for my mom. Like, he did this whole, like, renewal of vows one year for their anniversary. And it was a whole surprise. He invited all of the friends and family.

[Jordan]

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[Alex]

No.

[Jordan]

A box of fine wines. Yes. Ubereats can definitely get you that. Get almost. Almost anything delivered with Ubereats. Order now alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app. For details.

[Alex]

I think I just won my taxes. Yeah, I just switched to H and R Block in about one minute. All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H and R Block, and bam. My information is automatically there so I don't to go digging around for all my old papers to switch. Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game.

[Jordan]

Switching to HR block is easy.

[Alex]

Just drag and drop your last return.

[Jordan]

It's better with Block.

[Alex]

He picked out her dress, like, her white dress, and they got married while they renewed their vows on, like, this beautiful, like, courtyard overlooking this pond. It was so gorgeous. I was there for that. And, like, every Valentine's Day for her was a big deal. He would take her out, he did things for her. Like, I think they went, like, on a. On a hot air balloon one year. And maybe that works for people. I'm not sure, but, like, I don't know. I just had this image of their marriage, and it just totally changed when I found out that they were swingers. And that's fine, you know? Yeah, whatever. After this was 2014, 2015, I got a divorce. My. My mom actually came to visit me and my husband at the time, and she was there for a few weeks. We were living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and my husband, my then husband at the time was. We were going through a hard time, and we were trying to give it one more shot. You know, we're just like, let's see if this works. And my mom, the whole time was like this little person in my ear saying, you should leave him. You should just come home to us. Like, just pack your clothes. Pack your son's clothes, and let's go back to the family and you can start over and we'll take care of you and you don't have to pay us or anything. You just get a job and start over that way and just leave him. And I did. I remember, like, sitting down, and it was so undramatic. I sat down with him one night, I came home from work, and I was like, I think I want a divorce. And he was like, yeah, me too. And it was so. Just really chill. Everything was, like, mutual about it. And I was like, okay, that was way easier than I thought. And he was like, yeah, I think. I think we're not a match. And it was true. We just weren't a match. He wanted different things out of life, and I wanted to, you know, have kids and settle down and things like that. And I don't think he was that kind of person. That doesn't work for him. At least not when we were together. Maybe. I think he is now. We're still. We still talk. We have a kid together, so we co parent, but we had, like, the most chill divorce ever. I went back home and moved in with my parents, and things were really good. You know, we had a really good relationship. They were at the time still hanging out with the couple that they were currently swinging with. I didn't know that they were swingers with that couple in particular. I knew that they were. I just didn't know it was with that couple. I should have known.

[Taylor]

But did you ever bring it up to your parents after? Okay, so just. You just brought it up to your brother?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Alex]

I never brought it up with my parents. My husband at the time knew that they were swingers, and he was like, yeah, they. I guess they told him a lot of things because when we visited, you know, they would hang out with my. My husband at the time, too. And I would go to bed early, but he would tell me, like, all these crazy stories about my parents and what they were doing. And I didn't know if I should believe him. Like, to this day, he would tell me stories that I don't know are true or not, because I was like. I'd even asked him, like, do you remember when you told me this about my mom or my dad? And he was like, yeah. And I said, is that. Is that really true? Did you mean that? And he would just kind of laugh it off and be like, maybe. I don't know. And just. He's infuriating too, believe me. But when I moved back with my parents, it was kind of like. It was a fun summer. Like, we did. Everything was great. I was in a great place with them. Like, we. It was me, my son, and my parents, and we would. We would drink. You know, I was involved with them. You know, not like that, but, like, I was involved with my family for the first time, and I felt like their daughter and it. For, like, the first time, like, I felt like they liked me.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Alex]

And that was. I was riding such a high that whole summer. Like, oh, my God. My parents feel like. My parents, not, like, distant, you know, just like their baseline was dislike for me. But we were really close that summer. We would do, like, we'd have, like, barbecues all summer. We were watching, watching games, going out, doing a bunch of stuff together, like, making memories for my son. They were really great grandparents, so they were Just there for us. And I was going through a hard time, too, because I was going through a divorce, and I kind of felt like this was the end for me. I had to start all over. Like, I needed to. I needed to find a new job. I needed to find, you know, a new way to move forward. But I had my parents, and my parents had me, and it felt like I had all the support in the world. And things started going wrong, like, really wrong, when I started dating someone again, and their whole attitude towards me just changed. Like, they. The silent treatment happened again. Like, my parents stopped talking to me entirely. I was working night shifts, and I would come home in the morning, and my mom would be there, and she wouldn't say anything to me. She would. She always watched my son while I was working. At some point, like, I was like, I'm going to bed. She would watch my son for me, and she wouldn't say a word to me, you know?

[Taylor]

And how old were you?

[Alex]

I was 24. Around 22, 24.

[Taylor]

It makes me wonder if it was a control, maybe thing, but still, it's just very odd.

[Alex]

It was. It was really weird. And I was like, oh, my God, things are falling apart again. You know, Like, I. I changed on Facebook that I was in a relationship, and it just all changed overnight. It used to be, like, my dad would come home from work and we'd all get together, and I would cook, or they would cook, and we'd hang out and talk about the day, or we'd talk about current events or a lot of politics. Around that time, it was approaching that 2016 time. It just changed overnight. Like, when I started dating someone, my mom was like, you don't need to date. You know, she was like, you could just. You could date him, but you could also date other people. Just keep your options open. I just remember telling my mom, like, that's cheating. And she's like, it's not. It's really not. Like, she had this. They were drinking a lot at the time. It was every single night. My mom wasn't working. My dad was, but he often worked, like, night shifts sometimes. But every night they would stay up drinking. There was a lot of alcohol with my parents, and I think in that time that I was there, they stopped hanging out with their couple friend. And that's when, like, we got close, me and my parents did, and it was just, like, awesome. But when I started dating someone, it was the silent treatment all over again. I was like, oh, my God, I'm going through this again. And this was a huge mistake. Like, I shouldn't have trusted my mom that things were going to be okay, you know, that they were going to support me and help me. And I was like, now I'm alone, you know? Like, I don't even have access to my son. Like, because I would wake up and try and spend time with my son, and she was literally holding him from me. Like, sometimes I would come home and she had her bedroom door locked, and my son would be in there, and I would knock on the door and knock on the door, and she wouldn't answer me. I had nothing. And then my dad would be at work. And I remember texting my dad and saying, like, she's locked in the bedroom with my son, and I don't know what to do. She's not answering me. I've tried calling her. I've tried texting her. She won't open the door. And my dad wasn't talking to me at the time either. And finally he texted me back and he said, well, I don't know what to tell you. And that was all I got. And this went on for weeks, and I was just so confused. And my boyfriend at the time, he was so supportive for me. He was like, you need to. You need to, you know, just move on. He offered for me to move in with him. We were long distance at the time, but he was there for me as much as he could be. And things got to a really big head when, like, my son was starting kindergarten that year and I was driving him to open house, and I forgot to bring his school supplies there. And when I got back, my parents were like, this is the first time they've spoken to me in weeks. They were like, how could you? My mom was yelling at me. She's like, how could you forget his school supplies? You're worthless. You know? And as far as, like, my mom is, she's always been my number one bully. Like, growing up, she was just meant, like, the things she would call me, like, fat and ugly and things like that. She was just so mean to me my entire life. And it was just after weeks of being ignored again, being told I'm worthless and, you know, just useless and a terrible mom by my own mom, just hurt so bad. And, you know, she's screaming at me in this opened garage in front of the whole neighborhood. And my dad comes downstairs and he's like, what's going on? And she's, you know, I had pushed my mom back because she went to hit me. And I remember, like, grabbing her hand and pushing her back. And my mom's like, she hit me. She was hitting me. My son is there the whole time, you know, And I hadn't seen my son a lot during that time. I'd barely been able to see him because they were keeping him from me. And I just felt like I was in this limbo place where I didn't exist with them. And my dad came downstairs, and I tried to, like, explain myself because I was angry. I was so angry about this. And I was like, you guys ignore me, you know? And he started just wailing on me, and he would stop and be like, is this what you want? To my mom? Which blew my mind, because it felt like that is what she's always wanted, is like. She's always wanted my dad to just. That was when she was happiest, is when my dad would, like, beat me. You know, like, growing up, that was. She was. She would always tell on me. She'd always be like, wait till your dad gets home. I would get beat by her, and then my dad. And that was my whole childhood. And I'm like 24 years old at the time, and it's still happening in front of my son. And that was just. I called the police, and the police showed up, and my parents. I remember being upstairs, and my parents were downstairs speaking to the police, and I could hear them. And I think, like, one of the officers there was, like, former military, and so is my dad. So, like, they bonded. And he was telling my dad, like, yeah, I have a daughter too, you know, and my mom was telling them, like, our daughter just went through a divorce, and we're here trying to help her and support her, and this is how she treats us. She's been so disrespectful, and now she's calling the police on us for no reason. And they came up to speak with me, and there was, like, a family crisis person with them, and I explained everything to this person, and she was like, I think you should just apologize to your parents. It's just like, oh, my God. You've bought into there. Their story, you know, like, you don't understand what's happening here. Like, I. I haven't even spoken to my parents in weeks, and this is the first time they've even said words to me. And this is what it is. And it. They basically left with, like, you know, just. I had work that night. I was working night shifts and at a hotel, and she was like, just get. Go to work tonight. You know, come home, speak to your Parents talk it out with them and move on from there. And that night, like, I had packed all of our clothes. There wasn't a lot to pack. It was just clothes and some toys. I had a backpack for my son and a big old bag for me. And there wasn't a lot. I just remember there really wasn't a lot. And I told them I was gonna leave, and I didn't know where I was gonna stay. You know, like, my options were, like, I had a couple of friends that I was going through it, and they knew it, and they offered to help me out and stay with them because I didn't trust, like, my mom with my son anymore. I couldn't trust her. And I was trying to leave that night. I remember I ended up calling out of work, and I tried to go down to my car to put my bags in the trunk, and my dad followed me out. You know, our garage door is open. It's the middle of the night. The lights are on in the garage. And he grabbed me by my hair and slammed me against my car, like. And this is not the first time this has happened either, but he just started beating me in the yard, in the front yard. And he's like, you're not going anywhere. You're not leaving. He's like, where are you gonna go? You have nothing. You know? And some kids, and I don't know who they were. It was so dark. I can't even remember their faces. I didn't even see their faces. They were, like, yelling at my dad from across the street in the dark. And they're like, what are you doing? And he's like, mind your own business. You know, he's yelling at them. And these kids actually came over, and they're like, they must just. They sounded like they were 15, 16 years old. Just some kids walking around in the middle of the night in the neighborhood. And they were like, we're gonna call the police. Let go of her. And he's like, the police have already been here. Go ahead and do it. You. So they actually got my dad to stop beating me. He backed off. I loaded my car, and they were like, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm fine. I have to go get my son from inside. And they're like, go get your son. We've got this. We're here for you. And again, like, I don't know who these kids were, but I'm so glad they were there that night, because I don't know where I'd be like, or what would have happened if they weren't there. I go inside, and my mom had locked herself in her bathroom, in the master bathroom with my son. And I had to kick the door down, which was so cool. I've never done that before. But, like, I kicked the door down, and I had this in my head that I was gonna grab my son from her, and she was gonna fight me over him, you know, but she just gave him to me. I think she was just as scared as I was. And I got my son. I was putting him in the back seat. And I remember the whole time, I'm, like, clicking lock every time I step away from the car and unlock, just so my dad couldn't get in the car and get our things or our son. But he was preoccupied with these teenagers. And we pulled out of there, and I'm in tears. I have no idea what's going on. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do, where I'm going to go. I ended up staying with some friends and their parents. And to this day, like, I think of her and how she was there for me and my son because I stayed there for a week. And she was like, just, I know you've been through a lot. And she just gave me, like. She's like, here's the washing machine. You can wash your clothes. Take your time. It's okay. And she was. She was more of a mom to me in that week than my mom's ever been to me.

[Taylor]

You got it. Take your time.

[Alex]

And she. She was just. She was really helpful, and it gave me the time I needed to figure out what I wanted to do. And I ended up leaving the state again. I started over. And that's what I mean. Like, I feel like my mom and I had so much in common because she had to start over, and so did I, you know? And I wanted to be. I wanted to be strong like she was, too, because that's how I always saw her, as a really strong person. And I did. I started over. I moved away. I got my son enrolled in school, and we. I moved in with my boyfriend. And it was. It was just a changing point in my life. Everything changed after that. I wasn't in contact with my parents. I. They ended up, like, trying to track me down.

[Taylor]

Yeah. I was going to say, did they ever try to reach out?

[Alex]

They did. Yeah. I told my brother where I was and that we were safe and okay, and I kept in contact with him a lot. And we. We were fine. Everything was great. I was kind of Just kind of recovering from everything that had happened. It was like this whirlwind summer of being so close with my parents, and then everything fell apart right away. My parents were, like, trying to pressure my brother into giving me. Giving them my new phone number and address and where I was. And he was like. I just told him. I remember just saying, tell them you don't know. You know, you have no clue where I am.

[Taylor]

I didn't.

[Alex]

Still didn't want to get in between his relationship with them because he. He had enlisted in the military, too, and he wasn't at home when all of this happened. He was in training. He was across the country. And years. A few years went by. It was really quiet, and.

[Taylor]

And this was complete no contact.

[Alex]

Complete no contact. It was really peaceful for me. Like, I had to recover from it. And my life felt like it was getting back on track. That fall, when my son was starting school there, I got him enrolled. I got a phone call from a private investigator, and that still blows my mind. My parents hired a private investigator, and he contacted me, and he said, I just want to. I just need to ask you a few questions. Is your son enrolled in school? And I said, yes. Are you on drugs? And I was like, no. And he goes. Then I really. My hands are tied. You know, they. They wanted custody of my son is what they were fighting for. And I did. When I did reach out or my parents reached out to me later, after. I think it was just a year of no contact. These. This timeline feels so, like, foggy to me because it was really painful to me. My parents contacted me. My mom wanted custody of my son. And I remember talking to my dad, and he was like, I don't want custody of our grandson. He's like, that's your child. You know, I just want to know that you're safe and okay. And I was like, everything's fine. We're fine. And we weren't close again. You know, I didn't talk to them after that. I found out later that she was telling people that my son was her son. She was telling people that she was telling my son that I was his sister and she was his mother. And I. That still blows my mind to this day, that she would try and do something like that, and it. It makes sense that she was trying to take custody, you know, And I. It was just, like, another thing. On top of all of the stuff that I'd gone through with them, my. My parents and I got in contact again. They told me that they were leaving the country. And they were going back to the Philippines. And my mom wanted to. My dad was retired. He wanted to retire from his civilian job after the military, and she wanted to go back to see her family. And she was. It was this very tearful conversation over the phone. She was like, I have nothing left here. You know, my son is gone, grown and out of the house, and my daughter won't even speak to me, and I don't get to see my grandson. And I felt so bad. I felt so, so bad. She actually apologized to me over the phone that day, and it was a long, long conversation between me and her. And she was like, I love you so much. And she goes, I was a terrible mom, and, you know, I did a lot of things that I shouldn't have to you. And it felt so sincere and real. And they had time before they had to leave. They were preparing to leave the country, so they would come up and visit us because they had to go to D.C. for his immigration. You know, he's not a citizen of the Philippines, so they needed to go to the embassy there often. So they would stay in my area for a while, like a couple weeks here and there, and we reconnected. You know, I would spend time with my parents at their hotel. You know, I would take my son swimming, and we'd watch movies and hang out. And my boyfriend at the time, he was like, he. He was very wary because he'd seen, like, what had happened firsthand with. Between me and my parents. And he's like, I don't want to be involved with your parents. He said, they're dangerous to you. They manipulate you. And I don't think this is a good idea. And my parents have this way of, like, when they're around, they'll pay for everything. They'll buy me things. They'll get you. Yeah, they buy their way back in. You know, like, they had gifts for my son and gifts for me, and they would take us out to eat and things like that. But, like, my boyfriend was so right about it. It was all just kind of like it was. It wasn't going to last again, you know, like, this wasn't going to fix everything between us. And they ended up going overseas to the Philippines. Things were still okay. We were on talking terms. I'd say, like, once a week, I would read, video chat and call and talk about how things were going over there, how things were going with me, and it was perfect, you know, like, it felt like everything was fine again, like I'm in a better place. With my parents, when they're far away from me, we can have a healthy relationship when they're far away from me and we can talk over the phone just fine. I just can't live with them, you know? Everything changed. Everything changed. This was 20, 20, 19. 2019 was when everything changed. I just changed careers. I was interning at a medical office, and during my lunch break, I got a notification from my mom. I was in a group chat with my mom and my dad, and I got. I don't know the exact number here. I'm exaggerating, but it was around this amount. I had maybe 80 pictures and, like, 30 videos of my dad having sex with someone. And at first glance. And I opened the message when I opened. Who sent this to you? My mom did. It was a group chat between me, my mom, and my dad. And your mom sent the video? My mom sent this. Yeah.

[Taylor]

Of your dad with other women?

[Alex]

Yeah, this one other woman. From the. The pictures and the videos, it looked like this was taken from, like, a nanny cam in the corner. It was wild. And when I looked at it, like, at first glance, I thought it was pictures of my mom and him. And this isn't, like, new, you know, like, my parents, you know, they've always been that way. Like, the lingerie picture above the bed, the. The. There were, like, not safer work photos of them on, like, the family cloud that I'd accidentally seen. And I was like, oh, my God. You know, this is just kind of par for them, whatever. But when I looked at the photos, I realized that, like, that wasn't my mom in the pictures. It was someone else. And I was like, oh, my God. You know, what do I do? I was interning at this office. How do I respond to this? They know that I've seen this. This was through, like, Facebook messenger, so it has, like, red receipts and everything. And my dad had seen it too.

[Morgan]

Hi, guys. Today's episode is sponsored by hexclad. I personally am somebody that has never known much about cookware or pans or anything in between, because, to be completely honest with you, I've never been a chef. I've never been somebody that loves to cook. Up until, I would say, probably the last year or so, I have gotten more into cooking. I cook my breakfast, typically eggs, and then my lunches and dinners are usually always burgers and steaks. So it has been very important to me over the last year to find some really good cookware, some good pans to cook all of my food with that have everything turning out Good fresh and doesn't stick and is not burnt. And that is how I discovered Hexclad. They are literally my favorite pans that.

[Taylor]

I have ever used.

[Morgan]

If you were like me and you are in search of new cookware, Hexclad is definitely the way to go. Let me just tell you some of my favorite things about it because these were the selling points for me and the things that have definitely made the biggest difference when it has come to using this cookware and really having an extremely easy cleanup and having all of my food turn out exactly, exactly how I want it to. So when it comes to these pans, think in your head the performance of stainless steel combined with the convenience of non stick. They are dishwasher safe and are super easy to clean up. You can literally do one simple wipe and your pan is clean. It's not going to be leaving residue or burnt pieces on the bottom of your pan like I was having before. That was literally the worst I remember before. I was literally having to soak my pan in the kitchen for probably half the day, if not the whole day, just to get the burnt residue off of the base of the pan, which no one has time for. And I have pets, so the last thing I want is to leave anything in my kitchen sink that is going to allow my animals to go in there and mess around with it and get their paws wet and you can imagine the rest. And I just want to mention that hexclad products do come with a lifetime warranty, which is super important and amazing, especially to me. And they are oven safe and they are so durable and scratch resistant, which is also super key and important for a limited time only. Our listeners get 10% off your order with our exclusive link. Just head to hexcloud.com wai support our show and check them out at H E x c l a d.com wai make sure to let them know we sent you. Bon appetit. Let's eat with hexclad's revolutionary cookware. And now back to the episode.

[Jordan]

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[Taylor]

Fire round of questions.

[Alex]

Ready?

[Taylor]

Yes.

[Alex]

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[Taylor]

Yep.

[Alex]

Ship it?

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Alex]

Guarantee it? Of course. Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.

[Jordan]

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[Jordan]

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[Alex]

See center for details. The UPS Store. Visit a store Today. I called My boyfriend. And I was like, what do I do?

[Taylor]

Did she write anything, or. She just sent.

[Alex]

She just sent them, and that was it. You know, I'm. I'm at a office where I want them to hire me. I'm an unpaid intern, and I need to be professional, and I want them to hire me out of school, and I. I can't, like, confide in anybody. So I called him during lunch, and I was like, how do I handle this? What do I do? I'm at a total loss here, you know? And in my mind, I'm thinking, my parents are swingers. Maybe this is just one of their. Their things. Like, oh, my God, I don't know how to. Like, how do I address her? It's just. I don't. But why would she send it to me? And I'm, like, trying to come up with the answer, and I'm not gonna get the answer from anybody but her. And my boyfriend was like, There are two options. You can either confront them and ask what this is, or you can ignore it and move on and never know. And, you know, that's who my parents are. They'll never talk about it. They'll just ignore it too. And I'll never have any clue what it was or what's happening. And I was like, I'm so tired of this. So I texted them back, and I'm like, can either of you explain what this is? Because from. They don't know that I know that they're swingers. And I just assumed that they would just come clean about, like, being swingers and say, like, this was a mistake. I'm so sorry. Like, maybe they meant to send it to each other, and I. They accidentally clicked our group chat or something, and I. I just got a message from my dad saying, I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Please forgive me. And my mom called, and I can't even remember the phone call with my mom. She. She was just, like, in hysterics, like, apologizing, and she didn't mean to send it to me. The story she gave me later was that she caught my dad cheating on her, and she was trying to send the evidence of that to her own phone so she could get a divorce. But you can't get a divorce in the Philippines. I'm pretty sure it's illegal there. It's one of those countries where it's literally, you're married forever, you know? And I don't even know how they would get divorced if they would come back to the States and file or whatever. So I wasn't fully buying this. I wasn't. I didn't fully believe her. I was just like, okay, what do you want to do? And she said they were working it out. You know, my dad was really sorry, and he'd been cheating on her with a friend, and they wanted to work it out. And I was like, okay, I'll take it. You know, if that's the. That's the thing, I'll take it. My dad sent me an apology letter maybe a few months after that, just full of, I'm not the perfect father. I'm not a perfect husband. I'm so sorry to you. I'm afraid I've, like, damaged our relationship for forever, you know, he's like, I've ruined my relationship with you. I. I just want the best for you. Just a lot of, like, groveling and things like that. And I didn't respond. My mom called me and said, if you don't apologize, if you don't forgive your dad, he's going to kill himself. And I was like, okay. So I sent him a letter back, and I was just. I emailed him back and I said, it's going to be okay. I'm. You know, I just said, it's going to be all right. I just want you guys to be happy. And maybe you guys should consider coming back, moving back to the States and starting over to work on it or whatever. I didn't want to overstep. And I said, this is just coming from a place of love. I'm worried about you guys, and I'm here for you. And then things kind of went normal for a little bit. It was really weird. Like, I never talked to my dad again. No more FaceTime calls with him. My mom would call, and she would talk to me still, and she'd be like, your dad's in church. He's changing. He's turning things around. Things are okay between us. We're doing. We're doing good. He's. He's in therapy. You know, things like that. And I was like, okay, well, I'm glad to hear it. But he still never talked to me. I never really talked to my dad again. And I'm sure it was because he was ashamed, you know, but that was the end of it for me and my dad there. We never really saw each other face to face. I still haven't seen them since they left to the Philippines. My mom started calling me. I would get the phone call at, like, 3, 4, o'clock in the afternoon, which was like 3:00am or so in the Philippines, it was the opposite. And she would be in tears and she'd be like, your dad's beating me. Just hysterical tears. It was hard to understand her. She would. There was one time she called me and she was like, I'm. I'm locked in the car. Your dad was beating me. I need to get out of here. And I was like, what can I do, you know? She's like, things have been. He's been sleeping with other women behind my back, and he. He's gonna kill me if I don't get out of here. And she was like, I need you to send me money. And when I told her like, I can't send you any money, then things would just turn and she was like, it's always about money with you. She would start screaming at me, calling me worthless and useless again. And it just. From there, I would end up hanging up. And she wouldn't talk to me for weeks again. But these phone calls happened every. I would say, like, once a month. She would call me in hysterics in the afternoon, and she'd be like, your dad's gonna kill me. I need money. Please send me money.

[Taylor]

Do you think that he was actually beating. Do you think that.

[Alex]

I have no clue. I. I have no clue. Like, I've. I've. I've wondered that too. I don't know if maybe he did. I know he's capable of it because I. I experienced it firsthand. I don't know if he really was or if she was lying about it.

[Taylor]

It was like a manipulation thing again.

[Alex]

Yeah. Because my mom's, like, lied to me about so much over the years, but every time it came to, like, I was. I was trying to be there for my mom and, like, console her and stuff, but when it came to, I need you to send me money, it was always, I can't send you money. I just couldn't do. Didn't feel right. She would turn and she would start yelling at me, calling me worthless and useless again. And I would hang up. And this happened for a while. Like, this cycle went on for months and months, and I was struggling so hard, and I was like, what do I do? How do I get this to stop? You know, I would send her a message and be like, please, please, please stop calling me. She would clearly be drunk every time she called. You know, she was calling me at work. It was really affecting my work. I remember, like, she was so loud over the phone because I felt like I couldn't not answer her call. I would take a break from work and talk to her. And I remember, like, my boss one day overhearing her on the phone because she was so loud. And he knew that I was, like, struggling with my parents and something was going on, but he didn't know the details. But, you know, at that point, like, he was like, if there's anything I can do for you, you know, I'm sorry you're going through it. And it just didn't stop until one day, like, I can't remember what changed or how I got her to open up to me like this, but I told her during one of these phone calls, I was like. I felt like I confronted her finally. I was like, I don't know what you expect from me. You know, you've always been so mean to me, and I don't know what's. What you want. You know, I can help you. I can be there for you, but I can't give you money. And she broke down over the phone on FaceTime, and she told me everything. She told me that they had been swingers for years, that they had been sleeping with their friends and stuff. And again, I don't. That's fine, whatever. But I don't want to see it in my inbox. That was the crazy thing to me. She said that it was really weird, she. Hearing my mom say this. She was like, that woman in the videos, and the picture was our plaything. And she was like, I'm trying to get your dad to stop seeing her, but he won't. He wants to. He. He still wants to be with her and me. And I just thought it was so wild because, like, on their social media, I was friends with them still. They would post, like, romantic things to each other, pictures of them, like, through the years, like collages and stuff. But then I'd see, like, that woman that was in the pictures on their social media, too. Like, they would go out to lunch with her. And, like, I did some snooping on this lady. She was my age, and she had a son that was my age, my son's age. And I was just like, oh, it was just kind of like, you know, even though my mom was telling me all these things that she wants to. She. She didn't want to be a swinger anymore. She wanted to be with my dad, and he wouldn't give it up. And. But there would be, like, I'd have a conversation with her, and then days later, she'd be getting a Pedicure with her, the other woman in their relationship on social media, you know, and that was. My mom wanted to stop being a swinger. My dad wasn't ready to give that up. And that was, like, why. They were fighting and he was beating her, and she was. She was afraid for her life, was what she was telling me. And I didn't know, you know, what to do. I was at a total loss. And at the time, like, my partner was like, this is when you cut them off. Like, this has been. It was draining. Like, it was keeping me up at night. Every time I got a notification on my phone or someone would call, I just would seize up with anxiety. And I was like, it's my mom, you know, And I'm gonna get more information than I bargained for from her. Because once she finally opened up about the swinging and stuff, then, like, all of these truths came out. She would call me and tell me everything. She was. She was where I found out, like, she had told me that when her and my dad met, she was actually 16, and she had to fake her age in order to get married to him so she could move to the States. She had told me. She had told me about telling my son that she was his mom and that I was his sister. She had confessed to that. She had confessed to the guy that had added me on Facebook years ago, was one of their partners. She told me that my dad drugged. Drugged her and him and that guy had, like, raped her. And that's why she was in hysterics when she called. And that was how they started swinging, because my dad told her that he wanted to have other people in the bedroom. And she's like, I did this all for your dad because that's what he wanted to do. You know, my mom's had implants, breast implants. And she said that was for him because he wanted her to do it. And she's just always been a yes woman for him. You know, whatever he wanted, she would do. She would tell me all of these stories. She would tell me about their neighbors and how the thing is, like, she told me that my dad was sleeping with the wife behind her back, and that's why they stopped seeing them. But all of these truths came out. Everything. She really opened up about everything. And she was like, please don't tell your brother. And I'm like, why are you telling me? And she goes, you're the oldest. So this was my burden, I guess. And I think that was when this was happening. This is when I decided to Cut them off entirely. I sent my dad an email, and I said, I can't do this anymore. You know, I hadn't spoken to my dad, but I sent him the email, and I was like, you guys are really sick and you need help. I don't know what's true or what isn't. You know, I didn't know if my mom was lying about him beating her. I didn't know if she was making this all up and she just wanted to come home. She was telling me that he. She wanted to come back to the States, but he didn't. He refused to. He wanted to stay in the Philippines, and they were living off his retirement there. They were. You know, they had good money in the Philippines, but if they came back to the States, they would have to get jobs in order to survive again. His retirement wouldn't be enough. And she didn't have any money. So I sent him this long email, and I said, you guys are really sick and you need help. I can't be your therapist, you know, for my mom, Like, I couldn't. I couldn't listen to her talk about this kind of thing, Especially when you.

[Taylor]

Don'T know what's true and what's not.

[Alex]

Yeah, exactly. It was so painful to hear all of this because, like, a part of me was like, I need to help her. You know, I need to help my mom. I still love her. I love my mom so much.

[Taylor]

You know, I think, too, you know, everything that they put you through, even though you can acknowledge that it was wrong, I think that it kind of ingrains in you, this wanting to please and perfect and, you know, so that's probably why you felt the need to always answer or try to help, because it's like, what can I do to get their approval?

[Alex]

Exactly. And that was. That was the story of my whole life, is like. Like everything I did was for their approval or just for them to be happy with me or proud of me.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Alex]

But that was like, finally when I put my foot down and I just told them, like, I can't. I'm blocking you off everything. I think you guys need help. I don't want you near my. My son. I don't want you near me. Like, you're not welcome in my life anymore. And I blocked them off of everything. And it got to the point where I had to change my number because my mom was trying to contact me. Different phone numbers. So I did finally end up changing my number.

[Taylor]

And how long ago was this?

[Alex]

This was 2022. Okay, so the. The photos and videos happened in 2019, because I remember my dad sending me that apology email in, like, 2020, right before COVID started. And then 2022, I finally stopped answering and just blocked them off of everything. So it was two years of dealing with these phone calls from my mom and just. Just. It was. It was miserable on my mental health. It was so painful. Every time she would call. I was in a spiral for days, like, you know, like, trying to talk it out. Like, what do I do? How do I handle this? I had no clue. And so I ended up getting into therapy before I finally cut my parents off. And I was talking to my therapist, and I was like, what should I cut them off? And my therapist just bless her. Like, she was like, this is your decision. You know, like, people have cut off their parents for less, you know, and if this is going to help you, you know, you should. If this is going to be something that's going to make things better for you, you should. And she helped me deal with some really big questions that I didn't even think of when I was thinking about cutting my parents off, which was like. Like, if you cut your parents off, is it permanent? And if it's permanent, like, how would you respond to hearing that one of your parents or both of them passed away? Would you be okay with that? And that was a really hard question for me because I talked it out a lot with my partner, and I was like, I think if my dad died, I'd be fine. I'd be okay. I'd feel some type of way about it. I'd be really sad, but I don't think I would be that hard beat up about it. But my mom, I think that would really hurt because it would feel like I wasn't there for her when she needed me the most. And that's something that she said to me is like, I've always been there for you. You can't be there for me this one time that I need you. And that hurt so bad when she said that. Yeah. And, you know, it works so well on me. Like, my mom is. Well, I think she's so good at it.

[Taylor]

Yeah. And I think that she can easily see that you are still very emotionally attached to them. And it's obvious, like, you sitting here like, you're. You're a caring person. I think anybody that has a heart and is so called normal, you know, they're going to want to have a relationship with their parents and please their parents, Especially when you were raised the way that you were by them. And I think that for someone like you, it's like, I don't want to say that they could do no wrong because you see the wrongs. But it's like, in your perfect world, you would have that good relationship with them because they've manipulated you to the point that you know what it feels like to have something good with them, but then they take it away. So then when it's gone, it's like this back and forth, hot and cold.

[Alex]

And that's like. That's my whole relationship with them is it's hot and cold. It's. They give and take away. They give and take away. That's just how it's always been, right? I. I think I would be really beat up about it if my mom died. And I. I wasn't in contact with her. And recently they did come back to the States to visit my brother. And my mom was talking to me. Like, one of the last things she said is she's trying to convince my dad to come back to the States. And she said she would leave him and she wanted to stay in the States and he would go back, and that was her plan. So when my brother told me that he was. They were going to come visit him, they were flying in and they were going to stay in his area. I was like, okay. He was like, I'd really like for you to be there, because he found out about all of this, too. Like, when I stopped talking to my mom, she started calling him, and he started getting the same phone calls, and she started telling him everything. At one point, she was. The phone call that he got was, my dad had a gun and he was going to kill her and bury her in the backyard. And my brother was like, I don't know what to do. And I didn't know how to be there for him. He wanted me to be there. And I. I debated about going down there to visit, to have that, to see my parents. You know, I didn't want to bring my son down there because I didn't want to get that messy or anything, but I felt like this would My. This might be, like, my last chance to even see them again. I ended up not seeing my parents for that. It was a lot of, like, deliberation because I knew a month or so in advance that they were going to be flying out. And I debated it with everyone in my life. I was like, should I go see them? Like, is this a. Am I going to regret going to see them, or am I going to regret not Going to see them. And I just decided, like, my life has been good without talking to them. I have a really good life without them in it. And I didn't. I didn't want to risk that changing, you know, So I stayed. And I still feel really bad for my brother because I feel like he really needed me, but I couldn't do it for him. I love him to death, but I didn't want to risk and I wouldn't change it. I'm glad I didn't go. My mom reached out to me from a. She ended up getting my new number because there was this whole fiasco with my brother where he was like, I think dad's gonna kill mom. And I ended up calling her to make sure she was okay for my new number. So she did have my new number, but she never reached out to me again until they came to visit and she asked if she. It was just a plea. It was like, I just want to see you and my grandson, if that's okay. Like. And I just didn't answer. And later that day, my dad sent my brother a message saying that your sister upset your mom. And now, you know, it feels like we came here for nothing. And this has been a waste of time and just a very passive aggressive message to my brother. And my brother was like, I don't know what to do. And I said, you know, just, this will pass. It'll be okay. Let it go. And I didn't hear anything again from them. Things were okay. Things were fine. And I do keep my parents blocked on everything. I don't check on them every once in a while. I'll check, I'll unblock and see how they're doing, if they're okay. And from what I can see, like, they're. They're all right. You know, I haven't seen that other woman in their pictures. I haven't seen anything pertaining to their swinging or whatever. It just seems to be fine. The one thing I noticed is absolutely wild to me is they've adopted. And I don't know if they're my parents nieces, but they adopted my. They adopted my cousins, I guess two girls. And one of the girls, they changed her name to mine. And I have a really unique name, like the spelling. I've never met anybody that has my name. The spelling is super unique. They spelled it exactly the same way and they call her by my name. And she's. I think she's entering middle school. So they have girls now that they're raising. Like, I. When I checked on their social media. Like, these girls were getting my parents, like, Father's Day gifts and Mother's Day gifts, and they. They call him dad, you know, and that hurt so bad. Like, I remember the way I actually found out about it was my grandma called me, and she's like, do you know about this? That they have a. She knows I'm in no contact with them. And I guess someone in the family had contacted my grandma and said, it's kind of strange that they have girls there and one of them is named after their daughter, you know, And I looked. I unblocked them on Instagram and looked, and I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe this. I feel like this is a nightmare, you know, because my grandma called, and she's like, how do you. Did you know about this? How do you feel about this? And I had no clue. But, like, with everything that's going on, like, my mom saying that he's gonna kill her and she needs to get out of there, and he's drinking and he's swinging and seeing other women. Like, there are young girls in that house, and I don't know if, like, they're going through the same childhood that I did or if they're like, I'm trying to cope with, like, why it is that way. Like, why would they name her after me? They legally changed her name to mine.

[Taylor]

I think that your story with your parents has a lot of whys that you will never. You might never.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Have an honest answer to. And your parents might not even have. Have a reason.

[Alex]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Taylor]

I don't want to say that they're sick people.

[Alex]

Oh. I think your parents. I think they are.

[Taylor]

But it's just like, to. To treat a child that way. You know, besides your brother, you know, the fact that they treated him differently in front of your faces is disgusting, in my opinion. But besides that, like, to treat a child that way is just like you said, like, like, to. To reflect back and think that your mom was your biggest bully.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

It's heartbreaking, you know, and the chances that they're doing it to. And you said it was their nieces.

[Alex]

I think. I don't know who these girls are. I think they're.

[Taylor]

Whether they are or they aren't. I think that thinking about that and dwelling in one and wondering is only going to be draining.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And not good for your own mental health. But them renaming a child after you, to me, that shows that there is something there. Like, that's just not right. Like, I don't Know if. Once again, I don't know if it's a control thing. I don't know if it's. They're just trying to relive the same toxic kind of pattern over and over. I don't know what it is. Like I said, I don't know if you'll ever know or they'll even really know.

[Alex]

Maybe I was trying to cope with it. Maybe they're trying to redeem themselves as parents and start over with this. That's even not crazy.

[Taylor]

Not. And the thing is, is, like I said, you clearly, you know, it's. It's amazing that you came out the way you did to be such a, like, loving and genuine and sweet person.

[Alex]

That's. My grandma said the same thing.

[Taylor]

It's very easy for. For something to go in opposite direction.

[Alex]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Taylor]

So for you to turn out that way, and there might be even a part of them that's angry that you turned out so sweet. You know what I mean? Like, there might be even something in them. It's like, how could we beat someone down so much and they're still so much better than us?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Like, that's how I view it.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Because you took so much mental and emotional abuse, and you still turned out to be a better person than the two of them combined could ever be.

[Alex]

Yeah. You know, and I. I think, honestly, like, physical beatings were fine. That was. I think I could have recovered from that. Like, a lot of people my age grew up getting hit by their parents, and I. You know, we coped with it in our own ways, but, like, the. The psychological warfare of, like, not being spoken to for months, you know, not being acknowledged, that was really hard. And I think that's what made me want to, like, I wanted their attention so bad in any way that I could get it. And that might have been, like, why I acted out. I don't know. These are things that I've had to talk to my therapist about and try and cope with, like, the depression I went through. And I don't want to blame them entirely for it, but, like, I've always been depressed. I've always been. It felt like my whole life was just, like, existing around this infinite sadness that I was dealing with constantly. And when I got into therapy and ended up taking medication, it was. It changed my life. And I was so nervous about it getting started on all of that and medication and stuff and, like, coping with my depression that way, because the first two weeks. The first month I was on antidepressants, it felt Like, I was in a fog. Like, a deeper fog. But I guess after, like, my body got used to this medication, it felt like everything opened, and I did feel like a different person. And I think that was the point, because who I was prior was very different. And I think who I am today is just the best version of who I could be, you know? And it does feel like they. They did try to beat me down. I really do think they wanted me and my brother to not be close. Like, I'm. I'm positive they. They don't understand why me and my brother have a close relationship, because it. I'm sure I. There is an alternate timeline where I envy my brother so much that I hate him, you know, but it's not his fault. It's. And it's not my fault. And as much as I, like, try and tell myself, like, I was a terrible kid, I acted out a whole lot. I was. I was hurting a lot. And I was a kid at the end of the day, and my parents were adults, and they made their decisions, and they have to live with it. Not me. I don't want to live with it anymore. Like, I want to move on from it. And whether or not they're trying to redeem themselves with their niece that they named after me, and it's really crazy, because when I do look at their Instagram and kind of check on them, she's everywhere. Like, all of my dad's posts are of her. I would say 8 out of 10 of his posts are her holding up a certificate that she got a black belt or she achieved honor roll in school. And it's her name. It's my name on this certificate, you know? Like, and it's. It. When I look at that, I'm like, well, she's the daughter they wanted this whole time. You know what I mean? Like, she's achieving all the things that they wished I had and I wasn't able to do for them. And that's okay. That's okay with me. I can still, like, move on from that. And I have my own family to take care of, you know? And that's. That's that. And I think you're right. Like, I will never get answers from them. I'll never. Even if I ask those questions, I. They might just be lying. I'll never know.

[Taylor]

Well, here's the thing, too. Even if this other child is the.

[Alex]

Most perfect kid, giving them everything that.

[Taylor]

They wanted out of the daughter, that's not how the world works.

[Alex]

Right. Right.

[Taylor]

You know what I mean? Like, you have a kid, you don't know what you're gonna get.

[Alex]

Right?

[Taylor]

Okay, we could all say, I want to get. I want to have it. I want to have a boy, and I want him to have this personality and be like this. And if he's not like that, does that mean we bully him and we beat the shit out of him?

[Alex]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Taylor]

So, you know, I think that once again, because of your personality and who you are now, naturally, it seems like you want to see the best in things. It also seems like you will, when you check in on them, you will be harder on your stuff, on yourself still to this day. And, like, these questions will kind of run on wheels in your head of, like, well, why? Or maybe it's this or maybe that. And, like, you want answers, and that's. That's normal. Like, as a human, we want answers. We want to understand. Because. Because if we can't understand, it's just like it never can leave our head. It feels like.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Unless we, you know, really, really work through it for years and years and years.

[Alex]

Right, right.

[Taylor]

And even then, sometimes we still have days where we're sad or confused, and all of that is normal. But I think it's so important for you to never blame yourself for any of this, because any person will tell you, like, none of those behaviors were normal, you know, and it's one thing, you know, everybody's into their own thing. If your parents or anybody, any parents want to be swingers, cool. Do you?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Get you off? Sure.

[Alex]

Yeah. I just don't want to know.

[Taylor]

To involve your child in it. Not normal. I don't. Once again, to me, it's like, usually I can sit here and, like, in my own head, I can brainstorm. Like, maybe they did something like this for this reason or that. I have no idea.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Like, I. This.

[Alex]

There's no, like, reason.

[Taylor]

It has me baffled. I'm confused. And, you know, not everything in life do we have an understanding or an answer for. But I look at it this way. Just because they're your parents doesn't mean that you owe them anything.

[Alex]

Yeah, it doesn't.

[Taylor]

You know, and it's a hard truth. You know, something that my therapist told me is that blood doesn't always mean everything.

[Alex]

Right.

[Taylor]

You know, and. Yeah, you're able to reflect and look back and be like, my parents gave me a B and C. That was great. You know, they were there for me in this way, and they taught me this positive lesson. And there can be good, you know, a few good but if something is more bad and it's draining for your mental health and your career and your life and your family, and it's. It's not positive for you, and it's not helping you maintain or become the best version of yourself.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Then it needs to go.

[Alex]

Exactly.

[Taylor]

And I don't think that you necessarily need to think of it or look at it as like, okay, this is a forever decision. I do agree that it's important to, you know, think about, if something were to happen, would I have regrets? But if right now, like, we have to, as humans, we have to do our best, in my opinion, to live in the present moment. If right now something's not good for you, it just has to go, you know? And I think that you have spent so many years still try, even in your adulthood, trying to please them, trying to make them happy, trying to form this healthy bond and relationship and just have a good, normal, stable relationship with your family, and you get it, and then you don't. And I think that when you keep doing that cycle, you get tired, and sometimes you just need a break. And if you ever. And if in five, 10 years, you think, I want to try again, try again, and if it happens again, then you take another break, and maybe you never go back. Who knows? But whatever you decide, never be hard on yourself for that, because you. It does really seem like every decision that you make is coming from, like, your heart, and that's what's most important. Definitely put yourself first.

[Alex]

Yeah. And they're not in contact with my dad's side of the family either. So it's not just me. It's my grandparents and my aunt, and they're all kind of coping with the loss of them, too. They just don't know the details that I do. So it's just.

[Taylor]

It's confusing.

[Alex]

Yeah, it is. It's really hard because, again, I can. I can think about, like, why they did the things they did forever, like. But I'm just not gonna know. And. And that's okay.

[Taylor]

And they still talk to your brother?

[Alex]

They still talk to my brother. That's the only side of the family or this. This side of the family that I speak to. I know my mom's close with her family in the Philippines now. They're. They spend time with them over there.

[Taylor]

But do they still live there?

[Alex]

They're still in the Philippines. Yeah, she. And the thing is, like, she had said that she wanted to come back to the States with my dad and then stay in the US and, like, he goes back and they get a divorce. That was her plan. But they ended up moving. They ended up leaving together to go back to the Philippines. And for me, that was, like, all the closure I needed is if my mom's gonna come back and not do what she said, like, leave my dad. If she goes back to the Philippines with him, then maybe she was lying to me.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Alex]

I don't know. But she decided to go back with my dad, even though, like, one of the last conversations I had with her was, you know, my brother had agreed that he would be there. Like, she could live with my brother and she could start over. And I'd even told her, like, we'd be there for you. You know, we're all here for you to help you get away from him if this is really going on. And she just. She didn't take him up on that, and she ended up going back to the Philippines. So I don't know. I. I don't know. I haven't spoken. Spoken to them since then, you know, and that was. That was an answer enough for me to let go of it all and just, you know, maybe in the future I can reach out to them again. But in the meantime, like, now that I'm not speaking to them, my life is, like, really opened up for me. It feels like I. I'm not disappointing anyone constantly. And I noticed, like, there's been a lot of people my age that have chosen to just cut off their parents and like, they're. They're just not speaking to their parents anymore. They're on, like, a low contact, no contact and.

[Taylor]

Or even just boundaries.

[Alex]

Yeah, just basic boundaries to set because.

[Taylor]

And, you know, and now that you have a child, which I'm sure you know this as well, it's like, as a parent, you have to be the best version of yourself to show up for your child.

[Alex]

Right.

[Taylor]

So if your parents are draining that from you, that's gonna take away from your child, your experience with your own child, and that's the last thing you want.

[Alex]

And one of the biggest things was I. I didn't want my mom and dad near my son. That has never changed. Like, even when we. When they. When we were kind of on talking terms, I was uncomfortable. They, you know, they talked about maybe taking my son out to something or just one on one, but I didn't feel comfortable with that.

[Taylor]

Little kids are so impressionable.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

I don't feel like people don't realize that, you know, and you don't need it. Who knows what she was telling him?

[Alex]

Yeah. Yeah. And he remembers that, too, which is crazy to me. He. He's actually talked to me about that because he. He's 13 now. He's going to be 14 this year. And he's spoken to me about, you know, the things she would tell him.

[Taylor]

Does he ever say that he wants a relationship with them?

[Alex]

No. He's overheard me talking about my parents, and he's. You know, it's been so long since he's seen them. It's been so long since he's talked to them. And some of the. Some of the conversations, like when I was video chatting with my mom while they were in the Philippines, like, she would call and ask to speak to my son, and I'd do the whole thing where it's like, hey, you know, grandma's on the phone. You should talk to her and tell her how school's going. Things like that. This is when we're on good terms. And she would say things to him that I recognized her saying to me, like, you're getting fat. Like, she said that to my son. And, you know, after a few conversations, my son would tell me, like. Like, it's kind of weird talking to her, you know, And I was like, this is. This isn't. I can't do this. Like, I can't put him through this. I don't want her to start treating him the way that she treated me. And I always thought, like, maybe. Maybe it's because I was a girl and my brother's a boy and my son's a boy that he wouldn't be treated the way I was. But maybe. I don't know. I have no clue.

[Taylor]

I know that you said you sent your dad an email. Did you ever, like. Like, lay it out for your mom, too, or.

[Alex]

No, she. And this is really weird. I don't even know if my dad saw that email because we weren't really talking to begin. Well, from that point on, we weren't talking. My mom was still trying to reach out and contact me on, like, Instagram. She would make new Instagram accounts and new Facebook accounts, and I sent her a message back, and I was like, listen, I sent dad an email. And that kind of, like, explains why I'm blocked. I have you blocked and stuff. Because she's like, why did you block me? Why did my only daughter block me?

[Taylor]

Have you ever. This. Just curiosity. And obviously it's coming from my perspective, which is I'm. I'm not her daughter. So, you know, I can sit here and be like, I'd tell it to her straight.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

But, like, I know that you're not that kind of person. Or, you know, have you ever had the urge to just like, very bluntly.

[Alex]

Be like, tell her off and stuff? Yeah, all the time. Like, all the time.

[Taylor]

To be like, rude or disrespectful. Just be like. I mean, you are a bully.

[Alex]

Oh, yeah, I have.

[Taylor]

And that's still so nice.

[Alex]

That's such a fantasy just to be, like, honest with her about the way she made me feel. Like I've dreamed about have, you know, telling you.

[Taylor]

Written it out. Like, written her. Yes.

[Alex]

Yourself to, like my. My partner, he. He writes letters that he'll never send. You know, like to get his feelings out.

[Taylor]

Therapeutic.

[Alex]

Just my. My letter that I wrote to my parents telling them that I was going to cut them off was originally like six pages long. It was so long.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Alex]

I wrote out this whole thing and I looked at it and re. Read it over and over again and I was like, I can't. And I really. The letter that I told them I was cutting them off was only maybe like five, six sentences. And I said, all the best, you know, I hope you're okay. And that was it. Like, it was as nice as I could be. But I have written a whole lot of letters to my mom. But I don't want to. I don't want. I know she's going through a lot, you know, whether or not this is true or the life that she's living, like, I know she's. She's going through so much and I don't wanna. It's already too much. I don't wanna add to it, you know, And I just wanna move on from her. Like, maybe one day she'll leave my dad and she can start over and stuff and she'll change. But who she is, like, even from a super young age, she's always been terrible to me. Like, to family and friends. She's. She's told people, you know, the things you do as a kid, that's embarrassing. Like, she would tell people about it. She wouldn't. If I was on the phone with my boyfriend in high school, she would answer the. She'd pick up the landline and say something super embarrassing to humiliate me. Like, she's always been my biggest bully. Like, any. Like I've always felt my whole life I was too fat. I was. You know, my hair's not right. Nothing about me is right. I don't dress the way that I should. I'm just not pretty. I'm not this she's been the source of every, every issue I have with myself, every insecurity, everything. Like, she's, she's, I, she would be like, aren't you ashamed? You know, you should feel embarrassed. And I'm embarrassed about everything because of her. For the longest time throughout adult life, like, I've had just terrible anxiety because of her. And I've.

[Taylor]

You know why people do that? Because they're so disgusted and miserable with themselves.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

She, I think that you were the easiest outlet. You were right there. You needed her. You know, I think that it's so easy for a child to need a parent or to lean on a parent. And I think with the, that mix, with the manipulation games of the push and pull and, you know, it's clear that they didn't have many long term friends because they ruined all those.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So you just, it seems like you were just the easiest outlet, you know, and you have to remember sometime, you know, if this is who she is as a person. Just because someone has a child doesn't mean that they're going to treat their child differently than how they would treat a person on the street.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Sometimes that's how it is, you know?

[Alex]

Yes.

[Taylor]

Like, you can still be her kid and she might have a different love for you, but if that's who she is to her core, just a bully and a mean person or just a miserable, like, she might just be so unhappy within herself.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And that's the way she gets it out, is treating whoever is closest to her, which was you.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

You know, like, and I don't even mean closest, like in a bond way, just like presence, like, you were right there.

[Alex]

And she said that to me in our conversations towards the end of our relationship. She said like, you're my only friend. You're all I have, you know? And that's why she was telling me all these things. She's like, you're, you're the only family I really have left that I can confide in.

[Taylor]

And so you get both of it. You get her good and you get her back.

[Alex]

Yeah, it was terrible. And just like growing up and finding out like, because my parents had this again, they had this perfect relationship, this perfect marriage, this perfect everything. But I found out like a lot of cheating, like my mom and cheated on my dad a whole lot. That was kind of like something I knew growing up. Growing up. But my, there's also like, did my dad also, like, when did they stop cheating and when did it become swinging and when did, like, I don't know, I'll never know. But again, like, I. I'm okay with my parents being swingers. That's fine.

[Taylor]

But that's the least of it.

[Alex]

Yeah, it really is. But for. For them to send me pictures like that, and a part of me thinks that she sent that to me on purpose. You know, I don't. I don't think it was sometimes I don't think it was a mistake. I think she meant to do that to humiliate my dad and make me uncomfortable.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Because there is even, like, she. A lot of the conversations I had with her while she was drunk, she was like, do you look at those pictures? Do you still have them? And I'm like, oh, my God, no. No. I actually deleted my Facebook after that because I didn't. I didn't want it there. The fact that was. It was on. Related to my account was so gross to me. Like, I can never look at him the same. Like, I think I hate my dad. That's okay. I think I hate him. And a part of me still loves my mom, and I worry about my mom, and I hope she's okay, but I'm not mad at her. I'm just disappointed.

[Taylor]

Right. And you are able to, you know, learn from her qualities and characteristics and learn the kind of person that you don't want to be and how you don't want to treat people.

[Alex]

Yeah. And how to treat my own kid.

[Taylor]

Right. And I think, too, something going back to something you said of, you know, if you. If your circumstances were different, would you be the same person you are today? And probably not, you know, and I think that. Does that mean that we deserve to go through traumatic things? Absolutely not. But I do think it makes it a little bit easier when we get to a place of healing and loving our life and trying to become the best version of ourselves. I think it makes it easier to reflect on those toxic or negative circumstances and be like, well, if they didn't happen, I wouldn't know what I know, because I think that those things do really help you grow emotionally and mentally, and they teach you a lot about yourself because you're forced to grow up. You're forced almost, if you choose to, to go to therapy and to learn how to heal through things and to find yourself and. And kind of learn to accept that we might not always know why. And it's okay for things not to always go normally and for circumstances to not be the same as somebody else's and everything in between.

[Alex]

Yeah. And closure is just kind of like a nicety I don't think I'll ever have it. And that's okay.

[Taylor]

And that's a hard thing to accept because sometimes, you know, I. We think. And it's a very true statement. If you had closure, it could help a lot.

[Alex]

Yeah. But I just have to deal with it.

[Taylor]

Yeah, you gotta accept that we don't always get it. And the most important thing is where you are and how you feel and how your life is.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

That's what the most important thing is. You. You know, the only person that you can show up for is yourself, and you're doing that. So that's all that matters. And I think, in my opinion, I think being so open about your story and your experience and talking about it, I think that's a huge step for you.

[Alex]

Yeah, it was a big deal for me to talk about it, so.

[Taylor]

Right. Because, I mean, it's very obvious that you can see how much it still. It affects you, and that's okay. And I think it's kind of. What's the word? Like, I. I think that it's amazing that you still have so much, like, love in you. I think that's a beautiful thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. It would be actually amazing if more people had that.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Because I'm sitting over here, like, I'd love to. To tell it to you. So I think it's amazing that you're. That you still have so much just like, compassion and love and everything in between, you know, so that's honestly something to hold on.

[Alex]

That's something proud of. Yeah. It's something that I had to work on because I don't think before cutting off my parents, like, there was a period of my life where I didn't think I was capable of loving somebody. Like, I had a lot of interpersonal, personal issues with. You know, my first marriage didn't work out, and I had. I had a lot of issues with how I treated people too. And it. We are all growing. Like, we're all learning, we're all figuring it out. And honestly, therapy has been that thing for me to help me hold myself accountable and not hold myself responsible for the way my parents were. You know what I mean? Like, it's not my fault that part of my life wasn't my fault at all. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't make those choices, so.

[Taylor]

And the only thing that we're responsible for is our own actions. And I think that it takes us kind of reaching adulthood to see that and then reflect back on just is unfortunate. And I've seen this a lot just on this show, and as I've gotten older, it's unfortunate that I.

[Alex]

It.

[Taylor]

It takes us going through childhood and then, like, adolescence and then. And then reaching, like, mid adulthood.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

That then all these things start to unravel, and then it's kind of like going backwards because then we have to heal from it.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Kind of go back, you know, reflect on everything. And it's. It's unfortunate that we have to do that, but I do think it's a. When we get. When we work through that, it is a very positive part of a healing journey. So.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

But I'm. I'm proud of you for coming on.

[Alex]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Taylor]

I think it really was a big step for you.

[Alex]

It was. It was. I know. Like, I. I debated whether or not I wanted to tell my story, and I was like, it's not something I'm ashamed of. It's. It's who I am. It's what I've been through. And it helps. It really does. Talking about things really helps. I. My therapist, just talking to her, you know, I'm in a much better place after I let it all out and just. It feels like I'm letting it go.

[Taylor]

Right. And I feel like, too, you know, I. This is just an obvious. And something I tell people all the time. But it's one thing to open up and talk to a therapist, and that's so important. I don't think people realize how.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taylor]

Beneficial and important.

[Alex]

That is. It is.

[Taylor]

But then, you know, opening yourself up onto a platform where you. You like this, where you can just be completely vulnerable and reach so many people that, you know, might have had similar experiences or feel similar ways, it's really an amazing thing to be able to do. And you should know that there are so many people that will relate to portions of your story if that's the whole thing, you know, and I say all the time, people don't have to be going through the exact same thing to understand or to relate. And one of the biggest and most helpful things, in my opinion is a sense of community and feeling like you're not alone, because I'm sure there was plenty of times throughout your life that you were like, I feel alone. Or am I the only one that's going through this? This is weird, you know, so for somebody to be able to have access to someone's story that might make them feel like, wow, I felt that way, or this makes me feel like I'm not going crazy or, you know, I'm not the only one that is dealing with this. It gives people, I think, an ounce of hope.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And like I said, a community and a sense of just. Just like, they're not alone. And I think that's a really important thing that people have.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So amazing job.

[Alex]

Thank you.

[Taylor]

Thank you so much for coming on here and for dealing with sound issues.

[Alex]

Oh, no. For a second, totally. Okay.

[Taylor]

But was there anything else you wanted to include? Do you think you got it all? Yeah, I think you did amazing.

[Alex]

Thank you so much. I was like. I was like, don't cry. We're gonna cry. It's okay.

[Taylor]

So good. And really, I feel like there's. There are so many people that could have come out on a different side of. Of your situation and just be, like, full of anger and hate. And I'm obviously. I'm sure throughout your experience, you've had moments of just.

[Alex]

Oh, so much resentment and anger.

[Taylor]

So much anger.

[Alex]

I did. I had so much anger in me, and that a lot of that was, like, letting that go, too.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Alex]

Just trying to move on from my anger.

[Taylor]

What is it that they say. Don't they say that it takes more energy to be, like, angry and hateful than it is to just be happy?

[Alex]

Yeah. And I was exhausted. It's hard. I think there's a lot of anger from my part in my first marriage, and I was exhausted all the time. And that's why, like, I can be accountable for my role in my first marriage and why we didn't work out, too, because I was angry a lot, so.

[Taylor]

You were dealing with a lot of shit. You really were, so. But you did amazing.

[Alex]

Thank you.