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- [00:01]
Interviewer
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- [00:18]
Tracy Gray
While you go about your day.
- [00:19]
Interviewer
Your gut is where it all begins. So start with Activia. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle can help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort.
- [00:32]
Tracy Gray
Upgrade your laundry routine with a durable and reliable Maytag Laundry Pair at Lowes. Like the new Maytag washer and dryer with performance enhanced stain fighting power designed to cut through serious dirt and grime. And what's great is this laundry pair is in stock and ready for delivery when you need it the most. Don't miss out. Shop Maytag in store or online today at Lowe's. My name is Tracy. I was adopted out of foster care after my parents murdered my five month old older brother. My mom was 18 years old at the time and was pregnant with me. My dad was 34. They both initially were or they both initially were charged with first degree murder and both received plea bargains down the road. Whenever I was born, I had to have unsupervised, supervised and unsupervised visits with my mom when she was still in prison and then when she got out of prison.
- [01:33]
Interviewer
Did she have you when she was in prison?
- [01:35]
Tracy Gray
She did. She was in the county jail. I'm from Central Arkansas. She was in the county jail and they were able to transfer her to one of the local hospitals. And when I was born my apgar score was 2 and 3, which if you're not familiar with an APGAR score, they're taken one minute and five minutes after birth and the maximum score that you can have is 10. And my initial score was a 2. So I was essentially lifeless. They kind of put me to the side and then five minutes later it was a three and they realized that I was alive and began resuscitative efforts. I was immediately taken by dhs and DHS makes books. I found recently that it's called the Book of Life and DHS made one for me. And the first, I call it my first family photo. It says there's a lady named Kim who's taken me to my first foster home. And you might have to forgive some of my dark humor. I'm a professional firefighter and a paramedic and also with some of the things that I went through, I've developed quite a sense of dark humor and I think that's a coping mechanism.
- [02:42]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [02:43]
Tracy Gray
But I found that first family photo. I call it hilarious. You know, like, what a memory. I don't know who Kim is we're looking for, but yeah, maybe one day we'll figure it out. I do have pretty vivid memories of going to visit with my mom when she was at Tucker Prison. Obviously, she couldn't be real physically abusive in the prison, but one of the things that I remember the most is when DHS would come to get me, I was always scared to go. And I would try to fight them as a little kid. And the foster family that I had the most ended up adopting me. They are 60 years older than me. When they adopted me, they were 65 and 64. They were foster parents for more than 30 years. They're just wonderful, wonderful people. My dad used to tell me stories about when they would come to get me. I would try to fight them. And, you know, they were told they couldn't hold on to me, they couldn't console me, they couldn't comfort me because they needed to just get out the door and go because I was going to see my mom no matter what. And I remember, like, scratching the floor and holding on to door frames. I broke a piece of trim off of a door one day. And I never really understood why they forced those visits.
- [04:02]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [04:03]
Tracy Gray
And then one of the last visits that I. I can vividly remember, I had two new transporters. It was a man and a woman. Usually it was a. A woman named Paula who was a very influential person in my life, one of the only people in DHS that ever cared about me. I actually get to meet up with her at the end of this week. We got reconnected last week, but the. The last time that I remember going, it was a man and a woman. They didn't actually know where to go. And my dad and my mom both said that I helped them find Tucker Prison. Of course, that was before GPS. That was like MapQuest days. But as a little kid, I remember helping them find the prison. And that day, whenever we left, I wouldn't give my mom a hug and she couldn't hit me or smack me or anything, so she spit in my face. And I don't know why, but that, that, like, messed with me. Of course, whenever she got out of prison, she lived with her mom. I called her Granny. That was my grandmother, my maternal grandmother. Her name was Rebecca. And I just remember her being so sweet. I remember her having to wear a handkerchief on her. On her head or a scarf on her head because she had cancer. Of course, I found that out later. I just thought she was bald. Yeah, I didn't know. But she was always very protective of me. I obviously still had to go visit my mom, which is crazy. Yeah.
- [05:24]
Interviewer
It just doesn't make sense to me.
- [05:26]
Tracy Gray
No.
- [05:27]
Interviewer
So, two questions, really quick. Sure, I'm sure maybe you found this out later, but was there ever an explanation given as to their reasoning behind murdering your brother?
- [05:37]
Tracy Gray
No. No. And I have all of the fact sheets and all of the documentation, some of them that I just recently found and read. You know, there was a. An admittance. I guess. I guess I should back up a little bit. My. My dad took a plea bargain and he got secondary second degree murder. My mom was officially charged with, like allowing the abuse of a minor. So. My brother was five months old when he was murdered. He had two broken arms. He had long standing. The medical examiner's report said he had evidence of long standing. Neglect and abuse, malnourishment. How can there be long standing when he was five months old? Yeah, I mean, that tells me from the day he was born, but he died from suffocation and had head trauma. And on the form that we found on my dad recently, it actually said that my dad held his hand over his mouth and suffocated him. What we also found out is that my mom, Ashley, tried to sell Michael in June. He was born in May. She tried to sell him in June. And I. I don't know if she just couldn't handle. Now, I also need to note that Kenneth is not Michael's dad. I don't know who Michael's dad was. A lot of people have asked, well, where does, you know, Kenny and Michael, where do they. They're not related. And I don't know if this was like a jealous thing. I don't know if Michael was a hard infant, but there's no infant that's that hard that you'd have to be twisted. Oh, yeah. I mean, how do you break the bones of a five month old, right? You know, it's almost impossible. It's sickening to think that, you know, he never had a chance.
- [07:23]
Interviewer
Right.
- [07:24]
Tracy Gray
No one ever loved him. Maybe I bet my grandmother did because of. Of how I remember her. But my dad was a habitual offender. He had spent multiple prison stints in Washington, California and in Arkansas. By the age of 34, he had been an inpatient in the state hospital. He was Diagnosed with schizophrenia. I don't know if it was drug induced or actually a medical diagnosis. Both of my parents were drug addicts. I was actually born addicted to methamphetamines or methamphetamines was in my system. THC and something else which is confusing to me because she was in jail. Yeah. How, you know, how does that happen? I know you can get stuff in jail, but we have handwritten letters from Ashley that she wrote to the judge using me as leverage and bragging that she still had. You know, I. I think it's bragging, and maybe I'm conflicted, you know, because I don't have the highest opinion of Ashley. But when you read it, it really sounds like she was bragging to the judge. Like, I still have a son. I needed to get out. I need to go see him. So I mentioned the sentences because my mom got out in like 18 months for a murder. I mean, I'm not going to call it anything else. That's what it was. And, you know, I think that was one of the situations where the legal system failed absolutely big time. Whenever she got out, she. The house that I used to visit them in is still up. It's still up in our town. And I mentioned that I work for a fire department. Our fire station on the north side of town is like two blocks away from it. And I can't tell you how many nights on duty that, you know that. I wish that we get a call for that address. Just obviously I still have a job to do. I wouldn't mind watching it burn. When I had the unsupervised visits with Ashley, it didn't start off crazy, but it just progressively got worse. And like I mentioned, my granny always tried to step in between. And, you know, with my granny having cancer, she couldn't do anything to stop Ashley. So whenever my mom would lay into me, I got to the point where I just try to stay quiet because it was whenever I would start crying or getting upset that my granny would try to come in. And I didn't want to see Ashley turn on her.
- [09:44]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [09:45]
Tracy Gray
So you get to where you just kind of, you know, just take it. And I never understood why Ashley would. She. She'd slap me, she'd hit me. I have cigarette burns still around, you know, like at that time, like a diaper line. I still have scars on the top of my. Like on the top of my butt, on the top of my hips from the extension cord. Or she hit me so hard. This was probably. I don't I don't remember exactly when she met him. Maybe when I was 4 or 5. And, you know, that's when it kind of shifted from physical and verbal and then started including sexual abuse. And, you know, it started off as just, like, showing me, and then it started getting physical. And again, it was one of those situations where you just learn to be quiet.
- [10:31]
Interviewer
Yeah. So was it the both of them?
- [10:33]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. Okay. And what's crazy is there. There were marks, like cigarette burns, bruises that I know caseworkers saw, and then my parents saw, and I don't know why. The. It's like the court just never did anything about it.
- [10:50]
Interviewer
Did you ever tell your. So at this point, you were adopted by the foster parents?
- [10:57]
Tracy Gray
I was. I was not adopted yet.
- [10:59]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [10:59]
Tracy Gray
My Ashley somehow still had. Still had rights.
- [11:03]
Interviewer
Okay. So how often were you seeing her?
- [11:07]
Tracy Gray
I don't. I don't actually remember. I want to say weekly, but I don't. I don't remember how many times a week.
- [11:12]
Interviewer
Did you ever tell your foster parents what was happening at all, or did you kind of.
- [11:16]
Tracy Gray
I was scared.
- [11:17]
Interviewer
Right.
- [11:18]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. I know that they saw him.
- [11:19]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [11:19]
Tracy Gray
But actually, you know, I remember when I was right at the very end, when I was. I got adopted the month before I turned 6, where I could actually, you know, I can. I can really remember a lot of those things. And I can remember Ashley telling me that she would kill me. She'd kill, you know, my family. My family at that time was my foster family. We. I think all of us knew that that's where I would end up. Right.
- [11:41]
Interviewer
And that's. I think, that she could definitely. Probably see that's who you cared about. That's where you felt safe.
- [11:46]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. And so, yeah, I was. I was terrified.
- [11:48]
Interviewer
Right.
- [11:49]
Tracy Gray
Know, because I saw what she could do.
- [11:51]
Interviewer
Evil.
- [11:52]
Tracy Gray
Just evil. Yeah. You know, like my. I think my shimmer of hope came, and that's kind of a dark way to say it, but, you know, whenever I was born, I mentioned my score was really low. Well, they usually. With little boys, they circumcise the children at birth or very soon after. Well, they didn't worry about that with me because I had other issues to worry about. I guess my mom thought that was disgusting. I don't know. And one of the last times that I ever saw my. It was actually the last time I ever saw my mom on a visit, her and her boyfriend attempted to circumcise me with a razor blade. And that was not fun. That was pretty terrible. But thankfully, that led to the state police getting involved and it was very evident, obviously I didn't have to go see her again. And around the exact same time, there was a law that was amended in the state of Arkansas that stated there was a bunch of amendments, but one of the things that was stated, that if there was ever a death in the family of a sibling, if there were other siblings in the system, they could never return back to the biological family. So my dad was still in prison. He signed his rights away, but I couldn't go back to my mom, my grandmother, my uncles, my grandfather. And it literally slammed the door shut. And I couldn't be more thankful. And the judge at that time had worked with my parents for years. She was the juvenile judge over foster care and dhs. She was skeptical about my parents adopting me just because of their age. But at the same time, she knew that other families had visited my case and I had gone to other families for small stints of time. And my case, my family scared them away. I mean, I remember families telling me before I was adopted, we really wanted to adopt you, but we, we're, we're not, we're not going to adopt you. And I can remember, like desperately, all I wanted was out. That's it. I wasn't even, I don't even know that I was thinking about, I want a family. All I wanted was out. Yeah, that's it.
- [13:50]
Interviewer
Did your mom face any, your biological mom, did she face any consequences after that?
- [13:57]
Tracy Gray
Not, not that I'm aware of. If she did, it was, it was. I didn't know about it because when they, when I was taken away, it was.
- [14:04]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [14:05]
Tracy Gray
Completely no contact. So I don't know. I don't know if she did or not. I didn't find anything on the court documentation.
- [14:12]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [14:12]
Tracy Gray
And I've wondered that too. Where did, why.
- [14:15]
Interviewer
Right.
- [14:16]
Tracy Gray
You know, why wasn't she ever held liable for any of it?
- [14:20]
Interviewer
Right. And it's like, it makes you think, like, does it really take worst case scenario to like, have somebody, you know, get killed? But then even with that, she still didn't face the necessary consequences.
- [14:32]
Tracy Gray
And even though I read the documentation recently that Kenneth admitted to it, I don't believe, I don't believe it for a second.
- [14:38]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [14:39]
Tracy Gray
After living with Ashley, I don't believe it for a second.
- [14:41]
Interviewer
Right.
- [14:42]
Tracy Gray
I think that he took a plea because he was a habitual offender and he knew she was young and was going to try to give her a shot at life. Some like, weird act of, you know, like trying to be noble or something. Had I stayed with Ashley, I Would have. I'd have been just like Michael. I do remember the day I got adopted. And I remember the judge getting down, like, in my face. She was a sweet lady. She actually came into my life. I was a teenager in a weird way, but she asked me if I knew what was going on. And I said, yes, ma', am. I'm. I'm getting a family. And the funny part, the attorney had lied to him, you know, was like, do you want to change your name? And he asked my parents and they were like, no, we don't think so. I'm not a fan of the name Tracy, but it is what it is. But I very vividly remember the attorney lied him. He was like, well, what about Brian? And, you know, Black. Would you give a five year old or an almost six year old the opportunity to change their name? Like, I could have been Frankenstein, you know, like I'm Big Daddy or something. But the name Tracy. I'm actually named after my biological uncle on my dad's side who's also serving a life sentence in prison for murder. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't come from a great family for sure, but I'm very, very thankful that the judge was finally gracious enough to let my adopted family adopt me.
- [15:53]
Interviewer
Right.
- [15:53]
Tracy Gray
I know that there were odds against them, but my adoptive parents were my saving grace. And it's crazy because even though they were such good people, I. I tried so hard to push them away because I felt like, undeserving.
- [16:06]
Interviewer
I think, too, it's another coping mechanism in the sense of trying to keep people at a distance.
- [16:13]
Tracy Gray
Yes.
- [16:13]
Interviewer
To prevent yourself from getting let down.
- [16:16]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. Or hurt. You know, I was so scared.
- [16:20]
Interviewer
It was. Hurt isn't even the word of what you went through.
- [16:23]
Tracy Gray
Yeah, it was hard. My mom got pregnant, Ashley. And I have to. I wanna. I wanna say the only time I ever call my adopted parents my adopted parents is what I'm trying to explain like this.
- [16:36]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [16:37]
Tracy Gray
So I may say bio and adopted. It may get redundant, but I just want it to be clear. My biological mom ended up getting pregnant again and having another child. It's my younger brother. My parents took me to see Ashley one more time. Ashley, after I was adopted. And it was, it was really for me to go see my brother. And I had kindergarten graduation coming up. And I was super proud of it. And I wanted to tell my mom. And it. What's, you know, what's really crazy is even after all of the bad, I still, like, wanted to make Ashley happy. I still wanted her to Be excited. And I remember that that day that we went to see her, she was at her dad's house. My grandfather and I even had, like, my little certificate that I was supposed to keep and keep in my folder and bring for graduation. And I showed it to her, and she didn't care at all, you know, and my grandmother, she. Of course, she loved it. But I can remember seeing Austin, and he was. He was a baby, and I remember trying to give him a hug. And, like, actually, my. My adopted parents were with me this time, so that there wasn't anything that could be done. I remember her pushing me back. And my mom. My adopted mom at that time was 65. Let me tell you something. She's about five. Five in every. Bit of a fireball for her babies. And I remember when Ashley pushed me back, she was like, absolutely not let him see his brother. And I got to see him for just a second, but I didn't see him again until 2015. I didn't. Didn't know anything about him. I didn't know where he went. But I'm sure we'll get to that. After I was adopted, my parents, them being their age, they had a landline, and they had the same number from, like, the 60s. They'd still have it today if they'd let them. They don't. But Ashley had that phone number, and she would call all the time. And my parents were always very honest with me. My adoptive parents were always honest with me, which I remembered a lot of it. But even as I got older, they would be sure and tell me when I had questions, hard questions. They'd tell me the truth. And, you know, back then, that was hard to hear sometimes. But as an adult, looking back, I'm thankful for it because I never questioned. And even when it was hard, they would. If they weren't able to answer it, they would just say, we'll talk about it soon, or they would try to gently answer it when I was old enough to understand. And they would answer the hard questions. They would just tell me and let me kind of sit in it, and they would just be there with me.
- [19:00]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [19:00]
Tracy Gray
And sometimes that's all that I needed. But Ashley would call frequently. And the times that I did get to talk to her, it was always negative. This was your fault. This. You're the reason that you got taken away. Austin ended up getting taken away. And then the phone calls transitioned from, this is all your fault. You deserved everything that happened to now it's. It's my fault that she's Lost Austin and, and that she's in legal trouble. She got in trouble in Texas. She moved to Texas. I don't know why, but that's where she lost my brother. And it was like she. She'd call every year on my birthday and she'd call every year at Christmas. But then in between, we never knew. And every single time I talked to her, it was the same thing. And so my parents caught on to it after who knows how long, and they would try to filter them out, but again, I wanted to talk to her.
- [19:45]
Interviewer
It's the innocence of a child.
- [19:47]
Tracy Gray
When I would, when I tell mom and dad, you know, they would say, hey, your mom called. I get mad at them. Why don't you let me talk to her? And I know now that it had to been confusing for them. They didn't want to watch me continue to go through that. And, you know, if, if someone talked to my children like that. Oh, man.
- [20:04]
Interviewer
Right.
- [20:04]
Tracy Gray
You know, I'm not a confrontational person, but for my, for my children. Yeah. You know, we'll ride it.
- [20:10]
Interviewer
Dawn, I think too, probably the little version of you just wanted that approval.
- [20:15]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [20:16]
Interviewer
Which is heartbreaking.
- [20:18]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. It doesn't make sense.
- [20:20]
Interviewer
But are like at that age and even, like you said, even 21, your brain isn't developed fully to even grasp and understand things. You know what I mean? But I think that it is so incredible that your adopted parents were so honest with you because it's like, even if you couldn't fully understand the things that they were telling you, like you said, you never questioned anything.
- [20:43]
Tracy Gray
Right.
- [20:43]
Interviewer
And I think that that makes a big difference. Even though it's hard and scary and confusing, I think it, it's very important because you're not, you know, being sheltered from anything.
- [20:54]
Tracy Gray
Right. Oh, they were, they were old school and you know, my dad was a. On top of them, the age gap. He was also a Baptist preacher, so that was tough. And he was like an old school Baptist preacher, like the hellfire brimstone. You know, we went to church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, once every month on a Monday for youth rallies, you know, three weeks out of the summer for revival. You know, if, if you don't repent, you're going to hell kind of deal. And that's terrifying. If you, you know, if you're anxious, if you're fearful, that doesn't. You don't trust Jesus. And that's all that I lived in. Yeah. You know, I, I slept. I had to sleep in a bed with. I don't even think My wife knows this, and it's silly, but I had to sleep in a bed with my adopted mom until I was a teenager because Ashley would call and she would say that she was going to come get me. And I believed her, you know, and I was so scared that she was going to do that. And so I. I slept with my mom until I was in, you know, junior high. I started having friends over. Can't do that and be cool, you know, you can't sleep with your mom and be cool. But I. I was so, so, so scared that she was. She's just going to show up and. I was diagnosed with PTSD when I was like 7 or 8. One of the stipulations of my adoption was that I had to. I had to be in therapeutic counseling with. I don't know if it's a national chain, but it was called Community Counseling Center. They'd come to school and I'd be pulled out of class and have sessions like weekly. And then I also had to have individual counseling sessions outside of school. And I was diagnosed with PTSD really early, which I believed because I had the same nightmare almost every night. And it was the night that. The last study that I saw Ashley. And it didn't matter that it was a dream or whatever you want to call it a night terror. It was always just as real. And of course I felt like I couldn't escape it because the scars were, were still there. And you know, when you're in, when you're in school and you get into like middle school, junior high football, like, obviously I wasn't naked and they weren't staring at, you know, me there. But like I said, I have cigarette burns.
- [23:12]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [23:13]
Tracy Gray
And I have scars from other incidents. And kids are ruthless. You know, Kids are absolutely ruthless. I was bullied for stupid stuff. I was bullied because I was adopted. I was bullied because I had hand me downs. You know, as an adult, I buy jeans that are 2 inches longer in the. On the inseam because I was bullied for flooding. It's crazy, but it's something that I picked up on through a couple of retreats that I've been to. You know, when you try to look back and look at and find habits, and I laugh now, but I never realized that subconsciously that's, you know, why I was doing the things that I was doing. I went to a. For me, it's a, It's a big school in my area. It's a. It's a pretty big school. I graduated with like, 370 people maybe in my class. And I went there from kindergarten to graduation. So I knew everybody. You know, I wasn't Mr. Popular. We were dirt poor. Both of my parents were retired, both of them on fixed incomes. So we were dirt poor, but we were happy. And I also didn't mention my adopted parents had children of their own.
- [24:30]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [24:31]
Tracy Gray
They had three biological. My oldest sister right now is 72. So if that, if that puts it into perspective, my dad's 91. My oldest sister is 72. 72, 70. And then I think Ronald is 68. So I. Obviously they weren't in the house. My parents fostered for a couple more years after they adopted me, but then they, they closed their home. They also adopted two others. It was a. Two brothers who are very cognitively impaired. I don't, I don't know the right way, you know, but they, they do function pretty well, like in society. They both are incarcerated now. One of them, I believe, 100 the. He was charged with possession of child pornography. But the psychiatrists all said that he had the mind of like a 12 year old.
- [25:19]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [25:20]
Tracy Gray
So, you know, I'm not justifying anything, but I do believe, I do believe that my other brother, the charge that he got, I don't, I won't ever believe it, but they're both in prison for life. They. I don't even know. I think they're in their mid-50s now, so they weren't in the home either. Okay. But it's such a weird situation because my siblings are so much older, their children. So my nieces and nephews, some of them are 15 years older than I am.
- [25:48]
Interviewer
Right.
- [25:49]
Tracy Gray
So they have children. So now my great nieces and great nephews, I have a great niece that's like three years younger than me. So when I grew up, there were times where we'd have my great niece and great nephew in our home. You know, their parents went through kind of a hard divorce, so they were with us a lot. I grew up kind of as an only child, but there were seasons of my life where I had other kiddos in the home where I felt like, you know, the older sibling. When I was 8, my parents moved us out to a farm in the middle of nowhere. And it was because they wanted to raise me like they raised their children. And I'll tell you, when I was a kid, I hated it, but I liked some aspects of it, but I didn't like getting up every morning and hand milking cows and shoveling the barn and shoveling out the chicken. Coop.
- [26:38]
Interviewer
Right.
- [26:38]
Tracy Gray
You know, but. But now looking back, I wish I could go back to that. We had a huge garden that my dad made us hand, like, till he had this old farmall tractor. It was like a 1938 Farmall tractor. It's his pride and joy was broken down. And still having that tractor, he. He made us hand till it. Us. Us as in me. And, you know, there was a lot of discipline, which I'm thankful for now, but I didn't understand it then sometimes, which I don't think any of us ever do.
- [27:08]
Interviewer
No, definitely not.
- [27:09]
Tracy Gray
We like to buck and. And push back against our parents. But the one thing that I can say about my parents is they stood beside me a hundred percent of the time. They didn't always agree with what I did, you know, because I was a little cantankerous when I got a little older, but they never once, ever left my side. So I was diagnosed with ptsd. They. I've probably been hit with. Aside from schizophrenia, I've been hit with every depression, massive depressive disorder, bipolar disorder. And I really think that counselors were looking for a diagnosis.
- [27:42]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [27:43]
Tracy Gray
You know, I can't tell you how many times I've sat down with a new counselor and. All right, let's. Let's hear the story. And I remember being a kid thinking, I don't. I don't want to do this, because we're going to get hung up. We're going to get hung up on, you know, six months of my life where it was really, really bad, and that's where we're going to stay. And you dump that on a counselor that says they're ready and they're. They. They. Mine never were, it seems like. So they would try to medicate me, and it was like nobody ever really wanted to work through the problem. And now a lot of that, too, was. Was me. You know, I was really aggressive when it would get brought up and when things would start to hurt. Either I would completely shut down like I was used to and just be quiet, or I would use anger to make people leave me alone. And I put on this big show and get loud, and it worked. You know, I never was a big kid. I was a little skinny. I didn't get tall until, you know, I was a teenager. But I was able to get loud enough to get people to leave me alone. And I think that's where the medications and stuff came in. The diagnosis. Of course, when I became a teenager, I found out that there were drugs, the world, and holy cow, I was like, wait a minute. So I can go get high or drink. And when I sleep, I sleep so hard I don't have that dream. Yeah. So I was in. I was in for it. I got into the wrong crowd. And really, I. As an adult, I don't know that I like calling them the wrong crowd because they were just misunderstood.
- [29:24]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [29:24]
Tracy Gray
Like, I was. All of my close friends had been through the ringer.
- [29:28]
Interviewer
Right. Something that made them turn to drugs to numb what they went through.
- [29:33]
Tracy Gray
Yep.
- [29:33]
Interviewer
And, you know, I want to mention, too, with the therapy, while. Yes. I think that children can make it difficult sometimes to really break through and work through it. That's what they're there for.
- [29:49]
Tracy Gray
Right.
- [29:49]
Interviewer
They're there to be patient and to break down those walls, even if it takes years.
- [29:54]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [29:54]
Interviewer
You know, their job isn't just to be like, this one's too hard. Here's a medication and a diagnosis. You know, that's why nothing gets solved.
- [30:01]
Tracy Gray
Oh, absolutely.
- [30:02]
Interviewer
You know, and it's. I feel like that is another way in which some things are broken because. And I think that's another reason why so many people are against therapy and don't like it and say it didn't work for them. And I get it. You know, like, a lot of people get it, because I think that they have that experience and even just feeling they're like they're just another patient.
- [30:21]
Tracy Gray
Yep.
- [30:22]
Interviewer
So, yeah, I think that that's something that. It's just patience. It takes earning that trust, you know, it's the human connection.
- [30:29]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. And it's more oftentimes than not, it seems like that's not there, like it doesn't happen.
- [30:37]
Interviewer
Your team adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen, the new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you.
- [31:05]
Tracy Gray
Limu Emu. And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com. savings fairy. Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates excludes Massachusetts. There was one counselor, which, oddly enough, I also ran into recently. Man, I didn't like him. I didn't like him at all. His name was Mr. Terry. And I didn't like him because he was patient, because it didn't matter what I. What I would do. He was like, all right, cool. I'm gonna stay right here. What are you gonna do? You know? And one of the lessons he taught me, I showed. I did this to my wife, like, last year, but he took a pen, and it was one of the days that I was not having a good day. And he just started tapping it on a table, and he was like, I'm about to teach you a lesson. I was like, okay, teach me. And so he starts smacking it on this table, and he wouldn't stop. And he said, what can you do about this? And I tried to stop him, and he's like, nope. Kept going, kept going, kept going, kept going. And finally, I'm. I'm ready to, like. I'm ready to fist fight, you know? I'm like, dude, I'm.
- [32:19]
Interviewer
You driving me nuts.
- [32:20]
Tracy Gray
Yeah, we're gonna. Let's just go ahead and get it over with. And he had to yell to get over me, you know, and he was like, you have to learn that you can't do anything about this, but you can control yourself. You can leave. You can get up and go. And I hated that. Made me so mad. I was like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would you even go to college just to come tell kids this? You know, that was. Looking back, I'm so thankful because, you know, the situations that I got myself into as a older teenager, younger adult, had I not walked away and let anger get the best of me, there's no telling where I would have ended up. And it's okay to walk away sometimes. That's. I had an ego problem, too. Whenever I became a teenager, I wanted. I thought I had to prove something to everybody, which is crazy. But I think everyone struggles with that at some point. Yeah.
- [33:11]
Interviewer
And I think you kind of going back to what I mentioned before with that approval and the validation, you know, it. We don't always realize because things come out in different ways, but I think it stems back to you not having that as a child. So it's like you're seeking it other places.
- [33:28]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. Oh, I was a people pleaser. Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:31]
Interviewer
Which. It might not make sense, but it also does, you know, it really does. And also that ties into how so many different people can experience the same thing and have a different result. You know, it just. Which is also so crazy. Just.
- [33:46]
Tracy Gray
Yeah, I agree.
- [33:47]
Interviewer
It's so complex.
- [33:49]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. I wish I would have known a lot of the things that I know now.
- [33:53]
Interviewer
You can't though, you know, there's no teaching it. Yeah. You got. It's time. And it's just letting the brain develop and expand experience and it sucks, but it's. It's part of the process, you know, it's life for sure. But then we can appreciate it.
- [34:06]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [34:06]
Interviewer
You know.
- [34:06]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. It's. It's something I'm thankful for now and I think a lot of people were. If I have an opportunity to share with them and I tell them now that I'm thankful for the way that I grew up, they're like, oh my gosh, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, a lot, but.
- [34:18]
Interviewer
Right.
- [34:18]
Tracy Gray
It's fine. We're working through it. But it's a weird. It gives me that much more of a drive to. To love my boys that way.
- [34:26]
Interviewer
Yep.
- [34:27]
Tracy Gray
And try to share my story because again, like. Like I said earlier, I never thought anyone would care. Never thought. Because the other side of it is sometimes you hear like I've told people my story and they're like, yeah, okay. They write me off because they're like, there's no way that happened. My wife, she didn't not believe me. But when it set in when. When we first met and it finally set in that everything that I was saying was true. And she started learning more from my adoptive parents that I didn't want to tell her. She was shell shocked for like two weeks. And it started with her seeing the scars on my. On my butt. I told her there were stretch marks. I lied to her. But you know, why cross that bridge if we don't have to? Because she grew up in a very different household than I did. Polar opposites, lots of love, lots of family. But whenever she found out about that just. It wrecked her. But I started using drugs when I was 14. Started with just smoking weed, drinking, you know, with some of my friends. My first suicide attempt was July 31st of 2009. I can. I remember what the fight was over. It was with my dad. An incident happened with my adopted dad that just eliminated my trust with him. Found photos on a phone that I still don't have an answer to, but it was enough for me to walls up, you know, your chop liver. I don't want anything to do with you. And it was like of his, you know, his stuff at his age on a. It was a razor, a pink razor. Flip bone.
- [36:08]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [36:08]
Tracy Gray
Is what it was on. And I still don't know. I'm not. I don't want to know. I don't care. But that like, messed with me. It brought everything back up, it seemed like. And that was when I was like 11 or 12. But that led to the next few years of just. I. I hated him and I. I don't know why, I just. I resented everything about him. I remember the day that it happened. We were arguing. I had one of my best friends over. His name's Josh. And the. The straw that broke the camel's back. I walked into the den where my dad was at and my dad was. He's got a really bad back. He's handicapped, so he couldn't get out a lot. And so he basically stayed in this den while I went in the den and pick. Tried to pick a fight with him. Not a physical fight, but I wanted to argue again. We've been screaming at each other all day. And I asked him what my birthday was cuz I knew he'd get it wrong. He always got my birthday and my oldest brother's birthdays mixed up. And I knew that. And it's in. It's weird, but I wasn't in the right frame of mind because I was. I was high. And I went and asked him that question, knowing what he would say. And he. Of course he got it wrong. And I told him then that he wasn't my dad and that he should have never adopted me and that, you know, I regretted them adopting me. And that's, that's really, really low that I was that selfish to go tell him that. Well, I left the house and I went through two of our cow pastures because I knew Josh would follow me. And I went through a couple of fields and circled back around the barn. And my mom and Josh found me hanging in the barn. And I was unresponsive when they found me. I didn't. I thought about standing. We had a milk, like milk crates. I thought about standing on them and kicking them off. But the rope that I used was. Was thin. And if I'm being really honest, I was too scared. I was too afraid of the snap. So I thought maybe I could just lean into it. And it worked. I actually remember panicking and trying to get it off and I couldn't. And where I was at, I was like tiptoeing. I remember waking up in the hospital, but my mom and Josh found me. And I remember waking up in the hospital with like family that I hadn't seen in a while. And I got to go to Rivendell for the first time. Rivendell is a mental health hospital in central Arkansas. And I stayed there for, like, two weeks. And of course, it's like a band aid, you know. Of course it spread like wildfire. I went to school, went back to school and was the crazy kid all of a sudden. And, like, like I said, that was July of 2009. So how would have been 15 from 15 to 18? It was just a downhill spiral. I ended up going to 14 different treatment facilities. I attempted suicide four times total. I overdosed multiple times when I was 16. I. I need to back up, actually. I mentioned my dad was a pastor. And I also mentioned that on Monday nights, like, once a month, I had to go to, like, youth rallies. Well, my dad, being as old as he was, was trying to build the youth group in our church. There was no. There was no youth group. There was 13 people that went to our church, and I was related to all of them, and they were all above 55. I was literally the only kid and the few friends that I could get to come with me from school, well, my dad, trying to build the youth group, would reach out to the surrounding churches and try to find young men who had surrendered to preach, to come in and preach for us. And it'd be a youth night, and they'd order pizza, and, you know, we were there for the pizza. Honestly, I didn't know that I had siblings on my dad's side. And I also didn't know my dad's name, my real dad's name, up until one of these nights. And this guy comes in, young guy, he's bald, looks good, good shape, spoke really well, carried himself really well. He had a real nasty scar under one of his eyes. I do remember that. But he's a nice guy. He's married, had a wife. After service, we're eating pizza now. We're outside. All the. You know, all the kids are outside playing football. And my dad, or my. I'm sorry, my mom comes and gets me, and she's like, you need to come in here. And she had this look on her face, and I was like, oh, gosh. Like, here we go. They bring me to the front of the church right by the altar, and my adopted dad and this preacher are sitting on the. The front. The front bench. And. And he. The preacher is boohoo. Sobbing, can't breathe. He's crying so hard. And so I'm like, what is going on? What is happening? My dad said, tracy, I need you to sit down. So sit down. And he Said, do you know your dad's name? And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, yeah, your name. Your name is Merwin. He's like, no, no, not. Not me. Your real dad. And so now I'm confused. I'm like, no, I never. Why would you ask me that? You know, and my mom said, you know, Tracy, your dad's name is Kenneth. They said his last name. And I was like, okay, you know, now I'm mad. I'm like, why are y' all telling me this, like, right now? Why? In front of this guy?
- [41:09]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [41:10]
Tracy Gray
And they were like, his name is Kenneth. He was a junior. I didn't know that. And so as soon as they tell me that, they didn't tell me he was junior. They just said his name was. And I look at him, and I was like, are you my dad? And he's like, no, no, no, no. I'm your brother. And so, you know, number one, I didn't think I had siblings. And number two, how. How is. Is the world that small that you ended up at our church? Totally innocent, unplanned. So I found out quickly that I had four siblings on my dad's side, all adults. Two brothers and two sisters.
- [41:47]
Interviewer
And in a short, he wasn't from your mom, Correct? Right.
- [41:50]
Tracy Gray
He was from my dad, Kenneth, my real dad. We were half siblings. They knew about me from the Ashley situation. They all hated Ashley because they. You know, of course, they said that Kenneth took the plea for Ashley, which, again, I do believe that. But they hated. They hated her, which I felt like internment. They hated me. I don't think they actually did, but I felt that way. But I got to meet all my siblings in a pretty short amount of time. And this is actually what part of what led to me starting to use drugs. I was not. I was not doing drugs. I was still, like, a good kid.
- [42:30]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [42:31]
Tracy Gray
At this time, still getting straight A's, doing. You know, doing the right things. Well, I developed a relationship with my. My brother, my oldest brother, Kenny, to where my dad, he's a preacher. My dad would let me go, spend days with him and then spend nights with him, and it was great. It was like, you know, what I. It's like what I had been looking for my whole life. I finally had, you know, like, real family, and they were proud of me. And he was a good guy. You know, he treated me right. He. He loved me. He was like a good brother. He was harsh if I did something wrong, like he should have been. I picked up a couple times that he was like real sideways to his wife a couple times. And when he'd see that I was around, he'd straighten up and it was, it was weird though. His demeanor was weird and I picked up on it, but I didn't think anything of it. And then one night I got to stay with him. And my parents owned rental properties. They were just mobile homes and they're terrible, but it is what it is. They had them. And I stayed with Kenny and his wife one night. And I remember the next morning when I woke up, there was. It sounded like someone was being murdered, like a woman screaming. And so I get up from the living room and run in the back bedroom and Kenny is beating the brakes off of his wife. Look bad. I didn't know what was going on. And so I just tried to get Kenny to stop. I didn't try to get in between them. I didn't try to fight him. And I don't even remember if I just came behind him and like, like, hey, stop. But he turned around and he, I mean, everything that he was giving his wife, he turned around and I thought he was going to kill me. That's the worst I've ever been beat up in my entire life. So. Chatter dreams, right? You know, I also learned that he was on parole in California, which he had gotten permission to come to Arkansas, I guess from the California parole board. I don't, I don't know how all that. But he violated his parole, she pressed charges. And then like all of a sudden all my siblings are gone again. They actually were living. My two sisters and my, I'm sorry, my brother and my oldest sister were living in San Bernardino, California. And then the youngest sister was living here. She didn't get along with the other three, of course, they're all still older than me, but it's like just everything was great and like rainbows and unicorns and roses. And then within a day it's just, yeah, morning. Yeah, yeah. And like I, I don't know, Kenny beat the brakes off of me. It was not good.
- [45:04]
Interviewer
How old were you?
- [45:05]
Tracy Gray
Thirteen. And I, like, I don't know, I had a hard time with that. But you know, when you're a kid, you feel like you're invincible and now know, like knowing what I know as an adult, there's nothing unless it was like a five star prospect. Thirteen year old. I'm not a, I'm not a big guy. I'm not an aggressive guy. I'm not like the strongest guy. But I don't know many 13 year olds. That are going to throttle an adult is what I'm getting at.
- [45:33]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [45:34]
Tracy Gray
And that, that, like, changed something in me. That's what led to, like, the real, like, okay, you know, this is not. Nothing's ever going to change. I started questioning my parents, you know, like, why would you let me around him? Stupid stuff, you know, to me, to me now I think it's stupid. But then it was. How did you not pick up on the signs? Why would you know? But I got into the drug use and that was part of that. I. I didn't realize it, but they were. Kenny had relapsed on. On meth. His drug of choice was meth. All of my siblings, drug of choice was meth. I ended up finding out. But there were signs that I didn't see which put me around other kids around their age or my age from other siblings, kids and their friend group from the area that I got to be acquainted with, which opened doors. The drug use. The first suicide. At 16, I was pulled over at. I received a DUI. I had just drank a lot of whiskey and was leaving to go see a friend. I drank and then left, like, immediately. Well, I got pulled over for speeding and the trooper could smell it. And I blew like a.06 on scene. And in my mind, in the state of Arkansas, it's a.08 is a legal limit. In my mind, I was like, oh, yeah, scot free, you know, well, not if you're under 21. If you're under 21, it's 02. And so I got arrested and taken to jail. And I had to call my parents. They came and bailed me out. They didn't even ask questions. They just came and bailed me out. And it was a very quiet car ride home the next morning was not fun, you know, because my mom had picked up on everything. She saw the signs, she saw the changes. My dad. And again, our relationship was damaged from what had happened, but he always wanted to see the good in me, I think. And I remember my adoptive parents started arguing, like every day about me. And I knew what I was doing, but it also made me feel guilty because my dad wouldn't believe my mom and I didn't want him to, you know, so there was a lot of manipulation going on too, on my part that I had to take accountability for. But all of it happening just made me kind of feel like the black sheep. And I was. I was making myself the black sheep. I was turning my parents, you know, against each other. And I was. I was just running from like myself is what it was. I don't always believe that people have drug problems. I believe that people have people problems. We have skeletons in our closet that we don't want to look at. Whether we put them there or other people did, they're still there. We still have to look at them. And I didn't want to. So I got the dui. I got put on probation with district court. I had a probation officer. I got clean, you know, I had, I passed a couple of urine tests. And then he moves to California. Well, what does a 16 year old think? Like, oh, scot free, I'm good. Like call the boys we're getting high again kind of deal. And that's not how that works. They assigned me a new probation officer and I wasn't in contact with them until they called me like the week before my junior year. Yeah. And I failed the drug test and I ended up getting, getting put on juvenile drug court. I want to make sure that my time, my time frames are all right. Maybe actually I was put on juvenile drug court the year in between junior and senior year, my junior year. What I'm trying to get at is my junior year was my worst. When I got put on probation, I started. I couldn't get high anymore, like conventionally, like on, on marijuana or Xanax or I couldn't drink. So at the. Around the same time, K2 made its debut. And I don't know if you're familiar with K2, but it's not great stuff. I thought it was the bee's knees, you know, there was not a drug test for it at the time. And we had multiple businesses in the town that I lived in that were selling it. And one of the guys that owned one of the smoke shops in town, I used to sell him weed. So he was like, my end. I didn't have to be 18. I could go to his shop and buy whatever I wanted, which is not good. It kind of was unregulated. And when I got on K2, it was, it's. Things started changing quickly. I got arrested my senior year at school for possession. I was on drug court. I had to wear an ankle monitor. I finally got my ankle monitor off. And the thing that I want to point out, I try to, I try to be transparent. I try to take accountability because it's really hard for me to take accountability for it. And in no way do I want you to think or anyone to think that I'm glorifying, you know, any of this stuff. But I was really really good at lying. And I think that was like, a defense mechanism. But I had two judges over a district court case and a juvenile drug court case. My juvenile drug court judge was the lady who did my adoption. It was the same judge. So what she remembered is this sweet little boy that was hurt. Well, now obviously I have a drug issue because. So she wasn't that surprised. The other judge didn't know me. And he's a. He's a heck of a guy. I mean, he's someone who's very special to me. Now, I didn't like him then, but I jumped through all their hoops. I was passing their drug tests. I was going to their counseling sessions, I was going to my meetings. I was doing community service at my church, which means my dad was just signing the paper. Yeah, you know, he was. He was helping enable some of that, I think unintentionally. But I, like, painted myself as, like, this poster child for our drug court and had everyone fooled. My teachers, my. My probation officers, my mom. No, she. She knew and she kept. I actually found out, too recently that it was my mom who kept snitching on me. My adopted mom was going to my probation officer and snitching on me all the time. Tracy's acting weird. He thinks he's getting high. And I. I was getting drug test, like, three times a week. I'm like, I don't understand this. Why is this happening? It was my mom, and God bless her, you know, she was doing what was right. But when I got arrested for possession, the drug court team knew that K2 was. Was around us. They had found a drug test. They had purchased a drug test, and we had. We had court one Thursday every month, and I think it was the second Thursday of every month. We'd have formal court. All the kids would come in. And in November, they told us, next month, all of you will be drug tested for K2. If you have been using K2 and you're honest, yes, you're going to be in trouble, but the punishment will be less severe. Well, I had every intention because all of us would have popped dirty. I had every intention on being honest. I got arrested on a Tuesday. It was December 13th of 2011. And I didn't get a chance to be honest. Well, when I got arrested with possession at school, you talk about, you know, I went from, like, poster child having everybody fooled to now. I just. Now it's become obvious that I stabbed everyone in the back. So, yeah, I spent, like, 35 days in jail, and then I went to my first drug rehab. It was a juvenile drug rehab. And I was there for 52 days. I got back, I don't know, it might have been early April or. No, it was probably mid March, I guess. I don't know. But I ended up graduating, which was crazy. Of course when I got back to school, I was like, now I was labeled. Everyone knew I was a drug addict because I, I had become, like I said, I had an ego. And when I got into junior high in high school, I started know, going to parties, started fighting. I wanted to be the tough guy because I didn't want people to pick on me anymore. And they quit. You know, you're getting a couple fist fights and get the better hand. And I think for me, it's not that I was good at like fighting, but I remember telling myself like, you, you won't hurt me as bad as Kenny did. You can't. And so I just was like, well, whatever. What, what, what's it gonna hurt? So people quit messing with me. And I developed this ego. I thought I was this big tough guy. I thought I was cool and not at all. You know, I come back and now the group of friends that I had before that, now I'm a snitch all of a sudden. No clue where that came from. But all of a sudden I'm a snitch, which I'm written off by everyone. Now my group of friends, they're gone. The popular kids, they don't want anything to do with me. I was in FFA for a few years because I was a, I lived on a farm. I loved that, that group, they didn't want anything to do with me because all of their parents are, you know, like God fearing country people. I'm. I'm the black sheep. So the last few months of my high school career was just silent. I just put my head down and did what I was supposed to do. I graduated, got out. I stayed clean. I actually wanted to do good. I stayed clean up until like August of that year and it freaking tanked again. I went right back into it. I didn't care about probation. I just was left and right, popping drug tests, failing them. Of course I had. I had two more attempts as an adult, as an 18 year old, which led to Rivendell again. I was put in a program called the Father's House, which is a faith based rehab, which sounds great, but it was not. You literally go work at sawmills like 12 hours a day and everything's based on donations like the food the lodging, everything's based on donations. And of course the sawmills pay the facility for like, you know, their. Their mortgage of the. The land or whatever. And it was just a work camp. It. I. I found a way out. I asked my. My mom to bring me a disposable camera because they had septic issues. And I took pictures and she took it to the judge and the judge let me out early.
- [55:25]
Interviewer
So there was no help there. It was.
- [55:28]
Tracy Gray
No, no, it was, it was, it was very literally like, we're gonna do this hard labor all day long and when you come back, we're going to read the Bible.
- [55:37]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [55:37]
Tracy Gray
And it's going to change you. And it just made me bitter.
- [55:40]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [55:40]
Tracy Gray
You know, which don't get me wrong, I. I'm. I grew up in church. I'm strong in my faith now. I thought I was back then. I didn't have a, you know, relationship, but I was taken out of that and I was put in a Kim Free house with a little bit more rope. Nope. I was there for like three weeks. Went off the deep end again. Well, finally my juvenile drug court coordinator, because I was 18, still under juvenile jurisdiction, they could have held me until I was 21. But they didn't because he got tired of me. He was like, we're done. We're. You're. Here's your papers. You're done. You're. You're scot free. Go about your business. And I did just that. I moved out of my parents house. I moved in with my sister, my biological sister, who had moved back and she was just.
- [56:29]
Interviewer
By your dad, Correct?
- [56:32]
Tracy Gray
My. My biological dad. Which also made me. I gotta back up again. I'm sorry.
- [56:39]
Interviewer
You're okay. I'm following along fine.
- [56:41]
Tracy Gray
My biological dad again, he took murder too. So I don't remember what his original sentence was. I think it was 360 months. Not enough time, you know, for. For murder. But he got out when I was 17 and I was working at a restaurant. I was a dishwasher and I. That's actually when I had my ankle monitor on. But I got a phone call. Well, let me back up even further. I was going to classes for the dui. My first dui. And one of the classes is called defensive driving. Well, during that defensive driving class, they were like, all right, let's break for lunch. I go to Sonic. It's a pretty day. It's spring. I'm like, all right, well, I'm gonna sit on my tailgate and I' eat my lunch on this tailgate. Sitting on my tailgate. They bring me my lunch. And this woman comes running up to me, like, crying. She's like, oh, my gosh, Tracy. She gives me a hug, and I was like, hey. And she's like, you don't recognize me? I'm like, no, I'm sorry, I don't. She's like, it's Sarah. And then it hit me. Sarah's my sister. One of my biological sisters. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I thought y' all weren't still in California. No, we moved back. Dad's out of prison. And I was like, you know what? You know, I was terrified of my dad. I didn't know his name. I didn't know anything about him, but I was terrified of him. Because, you know, one of the things that Ashley would also say when she would call was, if Kenny ever gets out, it's, you know, you're next. And who. Who knows? Yeah. You know, I don't know why she said any of the things that she did, but I believed all of them. Every. Every single bit of it. I believed it. So I'm terrified. I remember rushing back to defensive driving, and the guy who ran the class. Like, I come in and I'm like, hey, I need to talk to you. He told me, you know, he used to work for state police. He doesn't anymore. And I'd, like, trauma dump on this man. And he was like, I'll. Okay, we gotta finish the class. I'll get you home. You know, he followed me home because I was afraid that, you know, like, Ashley or not Ashley, but Kenny would, like, be waiting on me. I thought he was some kind of hardened murderer, you know? It wasn't. But while at Sonic, I gave Sarah my phone number. She gave it to Kenny. So back to the. The. I'm washing dishes. I get off work one night. I have a voicemail on my phone. I answer it and listen to it, and it's. It's Kenneth. And he gives this whole spiel about how he hates that things went the way they did. He's. He's sorry. Sorry is not enough. He'd like to meet me. And I hung up. I called one of my best friends who was older than me, who was bigger than me, kind of a tough guy. And I was like, hey, man, I need a favor. Will you go with me to meet my dad? And he was like, what are you. Are you like, we're gonna go to. We're gonna go to Varner. And Varner was the prison he was in. I'm just like, no, he's. He's out. He's right down the road, you know, like, I want to just get it over with. I didn't want to wait. And he's like, yeah, sure, why not? So we loaded up, and I got in trouble for it because of my monitor. But I went and met him that night on a whim and asked him. The first thing I asked him. I didn't even say hi to him. I wouldn't shake his hand. He, like, was acting like he was gonna hug me, and I didn't do anything. And then he shook his hand up, wouldn't do anything. And I just asked him if he killed Michael, and he said, nope. You know, Ashley did all that. And I just took. I just took the blame. So you. I guess I just kind of gave him the benefit of the doubt. And we developed a relationship over the next couple years. And just like my siblings, I thought he was the coolest thing in the world because he'd let me. He let me drink, he let me get high, he let me bring girls over to his. His apartment. It was actually my. My sister's. My youngest biological sister's apartment. So, yeah, I thought he was the coolest thing in the entire world. My parents didn't let me do any of that. Of course, my parents were taken back. When I told him that he was out of prison, that I met him, they were upset that I violated my. My tracking device and my probation to go meet him. You know, you could have coordinated that and we'd have done it the right way. But they also understood. Yeah, in a weird way, they also let him into their house. They were skeptical at first. They made sure my brother. My adopted brother was there, you know, their biological son, every time he was there in the beginning. But, you know, he. That's where I learned my manipulation. Or that's where I got it from, I think, because my dad was. He was slick. He was very, very charismatic. He's a small guy, but very charismatic. He could convince a, you know, an alcoholic and a sobriety in 10 minutes. And so he fooled all of us. And I don't know, we had a relationship for, you know, a couple of years, maybe a year and a half. But we went out drinking together one night and came back to my adopted parents house and he slapped my mom. And because she caught us and knew that we were both drunk, and she said, I knew that you were going to corrupt him. It's okay not to be perfect with finances. Experian is your big financial friend and here to help. Did you know you can get matched with credit cards on the app? Some cards are labeled no Ding Decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. Download the Experian app for free today. Applying for no Ding Decline cards won't hurt your credit scores. If you aren't initially approved, initial approval will result in a hard inquiry which may impact your credit scores.
- [62:14]
Interviewer
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- [62:31]
Tracy Gray
Find out more@rumchata.com Drink responsibly.
- [62:34]
Interviewer
Caribbean rum with real dairy cream, natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume, 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoa, Wisconsin. All rights reserved.
- [62:47]
Tracy Gray
And you know, she told me, you don't need to end up like him. And when she said that, he slapped her. And my mom had dentures. She had fake teeth. And he knocked their. Her bottom dentures out. And that's. I think that's the first time in my life that I ever. Like, I thought, yep, I'm. I'm gonna take it from you. Like, you're gonna. You're gonna pay for that. And so we got into a fight. And, you know, it didn't last. Didn't last long. It was over. And then I'm like, I'm. We're done. I'm taking you back to Destiny's, my sister. And, like, halfway back to Destiny's house, and we live in the country, so halfway back to her house, it starts again. And I'm driving, and he. Anyways, we start fighting in the truck, and we pull over, and I ended up kind of getting a better hand. And I left him right there.
- [63:41]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [63:41]
Tracy Gray
And I got in the truck and drove back. I called Destiny and said, this is where he's at. Figured out. And I didn't ever talk to him. I talked to him when his brother died at the funeral, but it was just like a you stay over there kind of deal. I never talked to him again. It's weird. I'm sorry. The timeline's all over the place, but it's weird that I desperately wanted to know. I didn't know I had siblings. And when I found out, I was like, I got to know him. I got to know him. Like, we're gonna love each other. We're gonna be siblings. It's gonna be great. No, fell through. Met my dad, crossed that bridge. I faced that fear. You know, maybe my dad is different. Maybe Ashley's the bad guy. No. You know, and it was just like one by one, just. And I think that's what. When the timelines are actually lining up. If I would have told it right, you can see like the steady.
- [64:31]
Interviewer
Just decline.
- [64:32]
Tracy Gray
Yep, the tank. So it wasn't long after me and Kenny got into that fight that I was finally released from juvenile probation. They signed the papers and they were like, you're done. I couldn't believe it. I was off of probation. I was like, I was finally free, could do whatever I want. I was 18, so I could make my own decisions. I moved out of my parents house and I moved in with my sister Sarah. And Sarah introduced me to my drug of choice, which was crystal method. I'm very thankful that I never got into IV use. I'm very thankful. Didn't ruin my teeth. But I loved crystal meth because it kept me up. And my wife Hannah, just. I guess I just never told her. She knows everything, but I never told her why. It was my drug of choice. But like when I would get really high, you know, smoking weed or K2 or really drunk and I'd pass out, I'd sleep really hard. There were still times where I'd wake up in a panic from the same dream. When you're on meth, you don't sleep. And then when you do finally crash out, it's lights out. I mean, you, you up for, you know, two days, two and a half days, start having like sleep deprivation, hallucinations and stuff. When you finally crash, it's over with. It was for me. And I didn't, I didn't really care about being high. I cared about not having that dream anymore.
- [65:55]
Interviewer
Like the avoidance of it.
- [65:57]
Tracy Gray
Yes. And yeah, there was part of me. It made you feel like Superman. And I just, you know, like when you're a little kid, your parents say, don't do drugs. You do it once and you're hooked. And like, I don't believe that's the case for a lot of them. For that 100. For me, it was the first time I did it. It was like, yep, we're doing that. How do we get more of that? And Sarah was, she was that for me. Well, when I lived with her, I got close to Sarah. I learned about her story and her childhood. And it is way worse than mine. Way worse than mine. So it makes sense as to why, you know, she's she had two children. They lived with us at that time. They were like three and six. And I loved those kids, but I was guilty to be around them because of, you know, how we were living. And then I would see, like, Sarah doing the stuff in front of her kids, and it bothered me. And so I actually talked Sarah into moving the kids out of her bedroom. She lived with her mom, which is really weird. Her mom and Kenneth. Right. Those were the four siblings. Well, her mom divorced Kenneth and married his brother, my. Our Uncle Ronnie. It's weird. I don't know why that happened. I'm not going to question it. But the kids we talked about. I talked to Sarah out of getting the kids out of her bedroom, and they actually went and lived in their bedroom in a. In a. In a house. And life was pretty dark for like six months. And it's not a really long time, but it just. It wasn't good. I ended up getting another dwi, and that's what saved my life because I went back to district court, and the same judge that I'd slipped through the cracks on before, he was like, oh, yeah, Yep, I got you now. Because when it was two court systems, juvenile had jurisdiction over me. I don't know why or what. They had more authority than district court. Well, now juvenile wasn't in the picture, and the. His name is Judge Ohm. And that man saved my life. He was like, yep, you're mine. And I know just the place I'm going to send you. Because somewhere, somehow, I don't know how, but through all of the mess, he. He told me that he saw something that he thought was special and he thought was worth fighting for instead of just sending me to jail for a year. So I sat in jail for a couple days. I came to court, and he was like, all right, Mr. Gray, you ready to go to Teen Challenge? And I was like, oh, absolutely not. I'm not going to Teen Challenge. I don't know if you are familiar with Teen Challenge. Teen Challenge is a. Another faith based recovery program.
- [68:32]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [68:32]
Tracy Gray
And at that time, that was pre covered. There was a. It was two phases. There was a home center, which was approximately four months, and then there was the learning phase, which was 10 months. It was 15 months.
- [68:43]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [68:43]
Tracy Gray
Or 14 months minimum. All residential, all inpatient. You don't go home. It's. People call it Jesus jail, because a lot of people are sent there on plea bargains.
- [68:54]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [68:54]
Tracy Gray
But they don't want to go to prison. I get it. Makes sense. I wasn't facing prison, but that's why I was sent there, so I didn't have to go to jail. So I said no. And Joe Joan was like, all right, here's the deal. You're going to team challenge. You can go back to jail, and you can think about it, but the next time you come up, I'm gonna ask you again, and we're gonna do that until you agree. Well, my parents, again, never left my side. You know, my mom walked into a drug house when I was living with Sarah. Walked right by the guy who owned the house, who was a known dealer, not a good guy, looking for me. I'm hiding in a closet. I'm scared of my own mom. Like, not scared of her physically, but I was scared to let her down. I got kicked out of a dope house by the dude who owned the house because he was like, dude, your mom's looking for you. You're in here hiding in the closet. A guy that was living in, you know, that world felt so guilty. I guess he was like, dude, go. Go to your mom. And he even told me then, like, none of us have parents that love us, and what are you. What are you doing? And I couldn't explain it, but my parents never left my side, and Joe Jom had talked to them. And I remember the day that I finally agreed to go. I look back at my. Both my parents are just boohoo, crying. And, you know, my dad, he was a. He was a firm guy, but he wasn't afraid to show emotion ever. And he was. He was crying, and he was like, tracy, please, you have to get this right. You have to get this right. Don't, you know, don't miss this opportunity. And so I was like, whatever. It's stupid. Let's go. They let me go home that night, and I had to be a Teen challenge that next morning. And that was May 13th of 2013. And I've actually been. That's my sober date.
- [70:33]
Interviewer
Wow. Congratulations.
- [70:34]
Tracy Gray
Thank you. It was 12 years this year, and I bucked the system for the first seven months. I didn't want to be there. You know, I was like, I can hold my breath this long. No, I couldn't. It was not. It was a good program, but it was really hard. And what made it hard was you couldn't go anywhere. And it was all self reflection, but it was self reflection with help of, like, a counselor and also, like, with faith.
- [71:03]
Interviewer
So you felt like you finally had progress, would you say?
- [71:06]
Tracy Gray
Oh, yeah, When I finally quit being a knucklehead.
- [71:09]
Interviewer
Right when you Let it. When you let it in, when you let the help in.
- [71:12]
Tracy Gray
And another thing that I haven't mentioned up until this point, I was so violently mad, like, at God. And I know a lot of people aren't religious, and I don't ever want to feel like I'm pushing my religion on people, but I was so mad at God because. Why? Why would you let that happen to my brother? Why would you let those things happen to me? You're supposed to be a good and ever present, ever loving and ever faithful God. Why would you do that if you're so great? Why would you ever do that? And my parents were always like, tracy, you don't understand. You know, God's not doing this to you. And I'm like, God creates everything by your. By what you're telling me, you know, what do you mean he's not doing it? Why? If. If he can. If he can speak and create everything that we see, why can't he speak and stop it? Why can't he speak and stop the pain? Why can't he stop? Why can't he speak and make all of it go away? And my parents and I fought about that a lot. So when I went into Teen Challenge, I didn't want to go because of. That was one of the reasons. Why am I going to come in here and get indoctrinated, you know, by this cult, is what I thought it was. And it was on one of my passes where my parents got to come up, and they were so happy. They were so proud of me. I'd gained some weight. I was like £130 when I went into Team Challenge. And I was, you know, I'm 6:1. So I was 6:1, 1, 30. And for context, I'm like 240 now. So I was a literal skeleton. But I gained weight. I looked better. I was happy. I was starting to open up to one of my counselors that was there. But then I remember that pass. My mom gave me a hug, and she was like, you're not quite done. And I knew what she meant. And whenever they left, they gave me a hug and they were both crying. And I remember in that moment thinking, I've got to get this. Like, I'm young enough. I had just turned 19. See, I went in May 13th. I was 18. My birthday's at the end of May, so I'd turned 19. And I remember thinking, like, I have my whole life ahead of me. If I get this right now, maybe I can still make something of myself. So I Did quit being a knucklehead and started actually asking questions and. And getting into the. The nitty gritty. And I remember one of the most profound things, I guess, that I had ever heard. When I was in Teen Challenge, the counselor that I talked to, you know, he said, tracy, whenever you realize that what hurts you is also hurting God, I think things will start to change. And that made me mad. And I was like, hey, man, we've been cool up until right now. What are you talking about? You know, what hurts God or what? What hurts me is hurting God. And he was like, I'm going to leave you with that. And I hated that. I hated that. I was like, no, we're not done. He's like, no, you don't understand. I'm the boss. We are done.
- [74:04]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [74:05]
Tracy Gray
And I got to think about it that night, and, you know, all the times that I was a scared little kid, and all the times that I was really going through physical pain or emotional pain, that night, I realized that the only reason that I survived, you know, I call it my hole, all of the holes that I was in, God was in that hole with me and met me right where I was at. And although I never found, like, peace through all of the things that I went through that night, I found peace. And I just remember thinking, you know, why would. Why would Jesus do that for me when my whole life I just been made to feel like I was nothing? And I believe that to the point where I tried to take my own life and run from all of the pain. And when I finally realized that the hole that I was in, God was there with me. And he, like, very literally had his. His. However you want to say it. His hands, his wings. He was there with me. And like, I remember the old poem that my mom loved so much. She gave me like, 40 of the bookmarks of the footprints in the sand. And I can remember thinking all of the times I was yelling at my parents, why would God not make it in? Why am I having to walk this alone? And there were times where my mom was like, you're not walking it. You're being carried. And I was too mad and too hurt to understand what she was saying, but the entire time, I was being carried. And so when I finally realized that, I finally realized, okay, it's. It's time. It's time to buckle down. I was able to start sharing and opening up. His name was Hagos, was the counselor, and I started opening up, and we would just. You know, I'd open up and of course, back then, I hadn't talked about it, I hadn't worked through it like I kind of have now. So it was just a big blubber fest. And it just hurt. And I think that's something that people need to know. You know, it's okay to look back on your trauma, but we. We can't stay there. But it sucks really bad sometimes looking back on it and feeling the feelings and working through it. And, you know, we've had foster parents reach out to us and they're like, how do we love these foster children through it? Like, you better buckle up if you want them to work through their hurt. It's not going to be easy. It's going to get ugly, and it's going to get, you know, heavy. But you have to. You have to work through it. If we keep things in the. In the closet or in the darkness, it can only be used against us. It can only continue to have power over our lives. And for me, all of the resentment, all of the anger, all of the bitterness, all of the hurt, all of the scared little kid, like I was an adult, but I was a scared little kid below the surface. And I didn't want to do that anymore. I wanted a better life. And so for the last six months of Teen Challenge, I finally plugged in. I finally started trying to develop a relationship with, you know, with Jesus and with my parents, a real relationship with my parents. I really, truly let them in, and it was awesome. I remember whenever I graduated Teen Challenge, you know, my dad couldn't ride in a car because his back was so bad, and it was like a seven hour drive. I had no clue that my dad was coming, and he showed up with my sister and we had to help him walk at that time because he had two bad knees. He ended up having knee replacements, but he wouldn't let anyone help him walk into the church where we had graduation. And when I got to him, I grabbed him and I was like, what are you doing? Like, you're gonna fall. And he was like, absolutely not. I'm gonna walk into this church by myself. He said, I want you to know that I'm gonna support you. And I. Oh, man. It broke me. I was like, dude, you don't have to do that. You know, they supported me so passionately and so selflessly, and I think that was the hardest thing for me to work through. Honestly, I didn't want to forgive Ashley, but I worked through that. The hardest thing for me to. To move past was what I put my parents through. Yeah, all of the attendance, they found me on all four of the attempts. You know, I told you about sitting down with my dad and saying, you're not my dad. I did that again when I was like, 15 or 16 to both of my parents, and just, I tried so hard to push them away. And I. I think I truly hated myself for everything that I said to them. So when I graduated Teen Challenge, they give you, like, you know, most improved student. Da, da, da. Most whatever. Well, I got the outstanding student, most improved or whatever in. In Teen Challenge is. The name is misleading. It's not for teenagers. It is for adults. So I'm in a program with 150 grown men, and I'm the kid, you know, some of them pretty heavy criminal backgrounds. But I can remember them giving me that award for most improved because I finally turned around and my dad just, you know, was just so happy, and I gave him my certificate. And. And that night, the pastor asked me if there's anything that I wanted to say to my dad or if I wanted to ask that I never had an opportunity to. And I asked my dad in front of all of my, you know, my. My peers if he would forgive me for everything, because I never had before. And it just. It spoke volumes to me when he, you know, he was like, you don't have to ask me for forgiveness. I forgave you a long time ago. You know, that's why we love you. And, you know, I went home and it was like. It was like a fairy tale. Everything was good. I still had some legal stuff to deal with, nothing crazy. I made a mistake trying to still be friends with a couple of guys that I was friends with before, and I found out very quickly I couldn't do that. Yeah, I went to a party one night, and I stayed out of the drama because there's. It seems like there's always drama. People start drinking and everybody wants to fight, and guns got, you know, involved. And I went down to the dock. It was on one of the lakes. And I was like, this is it. Judge Ellen's gonna crucify me when he realizes I was. I was over there and I wasn't getting high. I hadn't drank, I hadn't gotten high. I was diligent in not doing that, but I wanted to be friends with the people that I was friends with. And after that night, I've. I cut all ties. I met my wife Hannah in August 14. So I graduated Teen Challenge July 15 of 14, and I met Hannah August 23. So I mean, just over a month, and I met her at a bonfire. It's pretty cliche. But, you know, what stood out to me about Hannah is when we met. I live in a community small enough to where everyone knows me. You know, Everyone knows everybody, especially when you went to the same school for, you know, 13 years, essentially. So I knew that she probably knew of me in the very small stint when I was 18 and came back to school where I was actually clean. I worked with CASA and this other organization where I'd go to schools and share my story. I was actually doing some good things. But I spoke at the school that she was at. She was younger than me, and she was not there that day. She had to take the act, so she missed my story. Well, I remember when we met, she was like, tell me about yourself. And I told her, you know, a general synopsis of, like, my story. And she's like, okay, yeah, that's cool. But, no, who are you? And I was like, I just. I just told you. She's like, no, no, that's what you went through. Who are you? So I, like, reiterated the. The horrible things. And she was like, okay, that's fine. I'm really sorry that you went through that, but who are you? And I was, like, taken back, because usually people are like, oh, I'm so sorry.
- [82:37]
Interviewer
Right. They let that define who you are.
- [82:40]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. And she was like, I don't really care. I mean, I hate that for you, you know?
- [82:44]
Interviewer
Right?
- [82:45]
Tracy Gray
Like, she didn't hate it for me. She couldn't care any less. But she was like, who are you? And I found out that night. I was like, I have no idea. I have no clue. I've never been an adult. I've never been a functioning person outside of running from the pain. So I asked her to take her home that night because she was with a whole group of people that were drinking and driving. And I was like, I don't want you to hurt. She wouldn't do it. Well, we started talking, and when I realized that we were actually going to start talking, I was like, all right, here's the deal. I need to go talk to your dad. I need to go talk to your mom and dad, and. And maybe it's from where we're from and, like, the Bible Belt and whatever, but that's. That's what you do. You. You go sit down and you talk with Dad. I knew that they would know who I was or they would find out who I was, because the community is so small. And Hannah was like, absolutely Not. You're not doing that. My dad was 20 years Air Force. No, my mom will write you off in a second, and I want to continue to talk to you, so. No. And I was like, well, then we can't talk, you know, if we're not going to be honest about it, we don't need to do this. And she got really mad at me. And then that. That evening, I got a text, and it was like, come over. We realized that we live, like, four houses away from each other, but there was one neighborhood. Like, there was a creek that ran in between our neighborhoods that divided us.
- [84:10]
Interviewer
Okay?
- [84:11]
Tracy Gray
We went to the same high school. We were three grades apart. Never ran into each other. We had mutual friends, but we never came in contact. Well, I get to her parents house, and I basically tell her dad, like, hey, man, you know, my name's Tracy. Shake his hand, give his mom. Give her mom a hug. They're like, so Hannah says, you want to come over and talk to us? And I was like, well, I need to tell y' all some stuff. And her dad, I'll never forget. He was sitting, like, in a recliner with a laptop on his lap, watching TV also. And his glasses were on the end of his nose. He, like, looks over at me. He's like, yeah, what's up? And I was just like, hey, I just want to let you know I just got a rehab. Like, paused and, like, waited for, like, drug use, and I lay it all out, and I said, I just wanted to come over here and, like, tell you, because if you don't want me to be around your daughter, I want to cut the ties right now before we go any further. And he never looked at me. He just kept typing and watching the football game. And then he stopped, and he looked over at me. He's like, okay, cool. Well, I appreciate that. Real quick, if you decide to go down that road again, you leave my daughter here. And that was that. Of course, her mom was like, oh, my gosh. You know, I can't believe all this you just told us. And I told him all the bad. Like, all the really bad. Not. Not, like the child abuse, but the drug use. I think I was trying to scare them away, honestly. And they were like, yeah, cool. Perfect. And I had Hannah. I had Hannah, and I had my parents. When I cut everybody off, my probation officer did find out about the party. It didn't make it to judge home, but he put me on house. Like, not house arrest, but I had a curfew, so I got a job at Best Buy, and I was working at Best Buy, and I'd get off work, I'd come home, and Hannah would come over. And I did that for, you know, a year and a half. And I finally graduated probation the right way. Everything was good. I asked Judge Ohm to keep me on probation because I was scared of not having, like, that looming, you know, if you mess up, it's.
- [86:21]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [86:21]
Tracy Gray
You know? And he was like, no, that. That's how I know you're good. And I'm like, no, no, you don't understand. I'm afraid, you know, I had to have the conversation, like, trust yourself. And life was good. I sat down with my parents, like, the first week I got out of Teen Challenge and said, all right, ask any question you want, and I'll. I'll finally answer it honestly. And we were able to have those, like, real deep heart to hearts, a lot of really uncomfortable conversations, but they had to have. They had to happen.
- [86:51]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [86:54]
Tracy Gray
In 2016, I found out about a welding college just on a whim. And honestly, the only thing that caught me was the money, because one of my buddies was making like 3, 700 a week. And so I was like, okay, hold.
- [87:08]
Interviewer
On, count me in.
- [87:09]
Tracy Gray
I'm working at Best Buy, dude. Like, that sucks. You're making how much money a week? So two weeks later, I packed all my stuff in a pickup truck and moved to a town about three hours north of where I lived. And I thought Hannah and I wouldn't make it. We did. I went to welding school and graduated welding school and was going to go work on the road. I got one job on the road, making pretty good money. And Hannah was like, no, I want you home. And so I came home, I got a job back in my hometown. And that was 2016, February of 17, we bought our house. And so I graduated welding school. In June of 16, I proposed to Hannah. It was like July 19th of of 19. And Hannah, whenever she sees this, she's gonna laugh because she always tells me that I'm weird about dates. I don't know. But I proposed. We asked my dad if he'd do our wedding because he's still know a preacher. And of course he says yes. And then we buy our house and we move in together. And that was a big no. No. So we went on. We were supposed to get married in November of 17. We bought the house in February. Well, like, I don't know. It was a couple months after we moved in. My dad calls me and he was like, hey, we'll still Come to your wedding, we think. But I'm not going to preach because we moved in together. That's a big no. No to that generation. And, you know, that kind of damaged the relationship between Hannah and my parents big time. It was also around that same time Hannah and I were doing husband and wife activities, right? And the scar tissue from Ashley and her boyfriend. Torture. So I had to go to the doctor, obviously, and my primary care physician I've known since I was a little kid. I went to high school with his son, who was killed in a car accident in 2009. So I've known him my whole life. He knows my backstory. He knows. Well, I had to go there to get a referral to urology, and he didn't know that side of the story. And so when I tell him I was. It was really awkward, obviously, you know, and I. The fact that I had to. All right, all right, dog, here, you know, let's do the examination. Of course it was awkward, and he was just dumbfounded. He left. And I thought he was going to come back pretty quickly and finish the rest of the exam. He's gone for, like, 40 minutes. And I'm, like, texting him. I'm texting himself. I'm like, dude, where? Like, what is going on? Am I good to go? Well, he comes back with state police officers, state troopers. And I'm like, his name's Kevin. I'm like, kevin, what are you doing? He's like, tracy, I have to report this. Like, dude, this was. I was 22 in that when that happened. I was like, you know, this was, like, almost 20 years ago or almost 18 years ago. He's like, I have to report this. As a mandated reporter with evidence of trauma, I have to. And so, you know, open that door again. And they were dumbfounded that I didn't want to press charges or didn't want to file a report. Of course they had to do their side of it, but at 22, I had to. I had to have a, you know, a circumcision. At 22,0 out of 10 don't recommend that. Was not fun. But in a really weird way, and people won't understand this. A lot of people don't understand this when I say this, but I'm so thankful that that happened because the scars are gone. You know, there are, like, still two that are there. I can't see them unless he's, like, really go looking for them. I'm really thankful for that because, like, we're humans. We. We have to use the bathroom every single day.
- [91:15]
Interviewer
Right.
- [91:15]
Tracy Gray
So every single day, I. I had to see them and things. Yep. And of course, I told the urologist how it happened, and I don't know if he called in a plastic surgeon, but they did a really, really, really good job on, like, getting all of the scar tissue. And in a really weird way, I'm really thankful for that.
- [91:37]
Interviewer
That 100% makes sense to me.
- [91:40]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [91:42]
Interviewer
It's kind of like a. A closure for that in a way.
- [91:46]
Tracy Gray
Yes.
- [91:48]
Interviewer
And it's like, I think if people don't understand it, maybe it's because they're looking at it from an aesthetic point.
- [91:53]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [91:54]
Interviewer
But that's not.
- [91:55]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [91:55]
Interviewer
Like, Although. Yes. In the sense of, like, you're look, you have to see that. And that was a reminder. At the same time, it is like, that is the only way to close that.
- [92:03]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [92:04]
Interviewer
For you, I feel like.
- [92:05]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. It was in the other side of it, too. I think that helped was it forcibly brought it to the light. To a lot of people around me, I had to tell.
- [92:15]
Interviewer
Right.
- [92:15]
Tracy Gray
Like, I had to tell my. My boss that I was going to be off. Why are you going to be off? I told him I didn't have to tell the whole story, but our close group of friends, although we were close, I didn't tell them that.
- [92:25]
Interviewer
Right.
- [92:26]
Tracy Gray
You know, they didn't need to know all that. But when I did tell them, they were accepting and loving and, you know, guys will be guys, and maybe this is just for. For you to hear, I guess. But, you know, they made light of it in a good way and they gave me a nickname, and it's. It's. You know, it's ridiculous. It's stupid. But they. They call me Frankenpecker in a. In a group of friends and a group of guys, you know, it was hilarious.
- [92:52]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [92:53]
Tracy Gray
And it made it a lot easier, I think, too.
- [92:57]
Interviewer
It. You know, when you hold anything in.
- [93:00]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [93:00]
Interviewer
No matter how big or small, it creates shame within yourself.
- [93:04]
Tracy Gray
Absolutely.
- [93:04]
Interviewer
And being forced to, you know, face that again so many years later, I think even though it was probably so uncomfortable and scary, it's like, you know what? It happened and I. You can feel so sad for the younger self, you know, but it's like now it's like I have to take it and own it and not let it define me.
- [93:26]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [93:26]
Interviewer
Or make me feel ashamed because it was. It was out of your control. It was a horrible thing that happened that in some ways, I'm sure did define you.
- [93:37]
Tracy Gray
Yeah, I did. It did.
- [93:42]
Interviewer
When did making plans get this complicated.
- [93:46]
Tracy Gray
It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.
- [93:51]
Interviewer
Use polls to settle dinner plans.
- [93:54]
Tracy Gray
Send event invites and pin messages so.
- [93:56]
Interviewer
No one forgets mom 60th and never.
- [93:59]
Tracy Gray
Miss a meme or milestone.
- [94:00]
Interviewer
All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com this episode is brought to.
- [94:11]
Tracy Gray
You by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle.
- [94:23]
Interviewer
Home and auto bundling.
- [94:25]
Tracy Gray
Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. I mean, I was, you know, kid. Kids will be kids, right? You know, especially when the hormones are raging, kids are going to be kids. And, you know, like, all of my guy friends, there was a time where a couple of guys were like, you know, like, are you gay? Do you like guys? You know, because I didn't go looking for women because I was embarrassed. Yeah, I was very embarrassed. I didn't want to have to have that conversation, right? And I had to have it a couple times. And so I didn't have a lot of girlfriends, you know, because I. I didn't. I had those conversations a couple times. And that couple times was enough, like, nope, I'm good. Yeah, we're good. And it was like one of the first things I told Hannah whenever it came to that in that point of our relationship, because I was. I was embarrassed. So, of course she felt terrible about the situation that led to the procedure. There was nothing that could have been done about it. But after it happened, I was really thankful that it was gone. And, you know, there was another door shut. But, you know, my dad, that really hurt the relationship. Whenever he was like, no, I'm not going to do the wedding, we had to scramble around and find a preacher. Well, then to make things worse, like, two months later, I don't know if I got cold feet. It wasn't great. Hannah fighting with my parents and back and forth. And then, you know, like that, that seed of doubt, like, you don't deserve. I backed out. Like, I broke up with Hannah and that was terrible. Like, five days is just not good. And my dad and I, my mom talked about it and, you know, my dad was like, do you love her? Like, yeah, I do. And he said, then, what are you doing? And I was listening to everybody else other than Hannah, and I went back and, like, just laid it all out, and I was like, please, please, please forgive me. There was no, like, infidelity, none of that. I just got cold feet and was like, I don't know if I really want to do this. And when I realized that, again, I was listening to everyone that I shouldn't have been listening to instead of listening to Hannah. We got back together, and we got married. And we were married. Actually, our anniversary is coming up. It was November 18th of 17. It was awesome. I mean, it was, like, almost surreal. Hannah and I had been through a lot up to the point that we got married. My. My younger brother, Austin, I mentioned earlier, because of Hannah not being stubborn like me, we found my younger brother through social media. Whenever I turned 21, I went to the DHS office because I was told, like, if you turn 21, they'll give you the records of your siblings. It's not true.
- [97:24]
Interviewer
Okay?
- [97:25]
Tracy Gray
They won't do that because it's a closed case file. They're juveniles. But what the DHS office told me was make a post, like, on a poster board, take a picture, and put it on social media. Well, that made me mad. I was like, that's stupid. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard it. Honestly, my feelings were. Because I was expecting them to just give me everything. Yeah. So I did what I normally did. Just, like, crawfished up, turned into a turtle, closed my shell, and Hannah made the. She made the. The poster card for me. And the next day, she was like, we're taking a picture. You're gonna hold the sign whether you like it or not. And we're posting it. Well, when I was in Teen Challenge, I didn't have a lot of clothes that fit me because I was so skinny. And as I gained weight, well, I had an affliction shirt, like, I got from a thrift store. Okay. And so the photo that I took, I had this affliction shirt on. You wouldn't believe the hate comments that I got just because I had an affliction shirt on and I'm holding a sign like, hey, please help me find my brother. The DHS separated, and people are like, you suck. You're wearing affliction. Why don't you go fault it? You know? It was stupid. But that post went viral in 2015, and within eight hours, his adopted mom called me and was like, hey, you're not gonna believe this. I'm like, yeah, you're right. You know, I got interviewed by a news station that day who also helped me share the story. And so by the time she called me at like, 9:30 at night, I'm like, yeah, you're right. I'm probably not going to believe this, but go ahead. You know, I've talked to 40 other people today that said the same thing. You're about to. And she start. She just started off with, okay, well. And she just starts naming our family members by name, like my biological family. I was like, oh, okay. And then she starts giving addresses of where we live and, like, where Ashley used to live. And I was like, oh, my gosh. She's like, listen, I know that this is hard to believe, but I. We truly adopted your little brother, and we'd love for him to meet you. There was like, some still, like, are we sure about that?
- [99:31]
Interviewer
And what was the age gap?
- [99:35]
Tracy Gray
Six years.
- [99:36]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [99:36]
Tracy Gray
Yep. I'm sorry. Five years.
- [99:38]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [99:38]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. He was born in 99. I was born in 94. Is that five? Yeah. Five years. Five years. Yeah. Okay. Math doesn't math with me sometimes, you know? Yeah. But he was 16 when we met, I think. Yep. But that weekend he drove up and Hannah has an uncle who is well off in life and has a lake house that's just gorgeous. He let my brother's adopted mom and sister and him all stay in the house they catered. They let us all stay in the house for a week, and it was awesome.
- [100:16]
Interviewer
Good.
- [100:16]
Tracy Gray
You know, it was hard because we didn't really know each other, and the first couple days, he didn't, like, talk at all. And I wasn't. I say that I'm an extroverted introvert, you know, but I'm really an extrovert. My wife will see this and she'll be like, no, you're not. I really am. He's not.
- [100:33]
Interviewer
And now that is your full brother. Right.
- [100:35]
Tracy Gray
We have different dads.
- [100:36]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [100:37]
Tracy Gray
But he's. He's my younger brother on my mom's side.
- [100:40]
Interviewer
Got it.
- [100:40]
Tracy Gray
I. I don't actually have a full sibling. Yeah.
- [100:44]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [100:45]
Tracy Gray
But he was, like, the last missing piece. And now also by this point, I'm sober. I've already been burned by literally everyone else. And I'm like, there's no way that a kid is going to burn me. And he didn't. But we did have to have some uncomfortable conversations because he started asking me questions, and I was like, hey, man, we need to include your mom into this because I don't Want to corrupt you. Yeah. And so his mom, her name is Leah. I was like, hey, I want you to be in here. Like, are you. Is it okay that he's asking these questions? Because I know that what I went through, and I didn't know if she had been honest with him, her and her husband. Her husband couldn't come. He was working. And she was. You know, she was like, yes, we've been honest, but we don't have a lot of the answers. And so we sat in this room and all of us talked, and I was able to talk to him and answer a lot of his questions, and they weren't what he wanted. You know, they were never the answers that he wanted, but it's the same way for me.
- [101:42]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [101:44]
Tracy Gray
And the last day he was at, the last day that he was up in the town that I live in, Leah was like, why don't you take Austin and drive around town, get him away from here and see if he'll talk to you? Because he was still really kind of held back, withdrawn. I took him to the house. I took him to the house where I took him to the road. You know, our whole family lived on this one road in town. And he was like, oh, my gosh. I remember that house. And it was our grandfather's house. And you could see it. Like, he. He went back somewhere. And, like, I get that. Yeah. Like, I do that. I've. I've seen it. I've done it. And holy cow, the question started coming in. And I'm glad. But then the very last thing he asked me, he was like, can I stay with you? Can I come live with you? And that was probably one of the hardest things to tell. Austin was like, buddy, I love you. You probably don't know that, but I. I truly. I love you. But your family also loves you. They chose you. Just like my family chose me. They chose you. You need to stay with them. If you. If you turn 18 and you decide, like, yep, I want to move up here. We'll figure it out. But right now, you need to honor your family. And that was hard, but he understood, and he did. They did. They did great. He has a wonderful family that loves him just like he needs to be loved. And I'm so thankful for both of them. He was able to come to our wedding, so that was really cool. My youngest sister on my biological dad's side, I kept her like this because I got burnt. My Kenneth Senior, Kenneth Junior. And then Sarah. Right? So I was like, I'm not. She tried to come in my life. And I'm like, no, we're good. Like, you stay over there. Well, Hannah didn't understand that. And so Hannah became. Well, I'm sorry. Destiny became friends with Hannah, trying to get to me. I know what she was doing. I kept telling Hannah, like, you don't want to do that. I promise, you don't want to do that. She'll burn you. She did. But Destiny was at our wedding. Destiny's my youngest sister on my dad's side, and so Austin met her, and it was not a. It wasn't great, but we weren't going to let it ruin our wedding, so we diffused it. And Destiny's not in our life anymore. Austin still is. Thank. Thank God. But Hannah and I got married November 17th. I had another career change in June of 18. I started working for the fire department that I work for now. And that has also been one of the biggest blessings. You know, I always, always knew that I wanted to help people. I actually had a dream of becoming a paramedic when I was in high school. I wanted to be a paramedic so bad, and obviously, my life choices kind of prohibited that. But I applied to be a law enforcement officer before I applied for the fire department, and they took my application, threw it in the trash because I still had a DWI on my record, and hr, like, literally looked at it, and they're like, let's see. Nope, through the trash. So things happen for a reason. I don't believe in coincidences. Applied for the fire department. I put in Judge Ohm. I put one of my old probation officers. I put the under sheriff who worked in my case. And when I applied for the fire department, there's a series of interviews. The first one was, like, with the civil service commission and then a new hire committee and then the chief officers. When I went into the new hire committee, I was like, hey, this may be an orthodox. I want to say something before the interview starts. And I. I was like, they're gonna write me off. Right off from the rip, thinking I'm, like, trying to take control. But I needed to tell them about my criminal history. I never caught any felonies, but I wanted. I wanted to be the one to tell them. Right.
- [105:30]
Interviewer
You wanted it to come from you.
- [105:31]
Tracy Gray
I think that's the right thing to do.
- [105:32]
Interviewer
Absolutely.
- [105:33]
Tracy Gray
Whether they wrote me off or not. And I did meet some of their disqualifiers, like, if you'd ever use illicit substances. It wasn't within the timeframe, but some of them didn't really have timeframes. And then, of course, I knew that I had a PTSD diagnosis, which isn't great to go into a EMS field, but I think mine was a little different. Anyways, I start and I say, hey, like, here's my dirty laundry. I know that y' all have my background checks. I know that you're gonna see it if you've already read it. I'm sorry. I wanted to be the one to tell you if this disqualifies me. I just want to say thanks for the opportunity, and I'll be on my way. And they. It was dead silent. You know, these guys that have got 20, 25 years, 30 years on the fire department, like, just staring at me, awkward, you know? And the one guy, he just recently retired. The one guy that was, like, rough, gruff at the department, everyone was scared of him. Of course, I didn't know him, but he looked rough and gruff. He stood up, he shook my hand, and he said, Mr. Gray, I don't have to hear another word. You've got my vote. He sat down and he looked over it. I found out later, but the guy who runs that committee. I don't have a question. And he just sat in the chair and smiled. The rest of the interview, they interviewed me like, normal chief officer interview was the same way. Of course, Chief had questions for me, and I answered them all honestly. And Chief told me he called every one of my references. And because I told him, like, don't. Don't believe anything that I'm telling you, because I. I was really good at lying. I know this doesn't look great for an interview. Call my references. And I didn't know it, but Chief was good friends with Judge Own, and, you know, Judge Ohm saved my life again. He told Chief that I was worth a shot, and I've honored that decision ever since. I was able to go to the fire academy, and I made, like, top of my class in the fire academy. I went to EMT school, made top of my class. The door opened for paramedic school. Like, here's my dream, you know, I got to go to paramedic school. Got top of my class. I am a paramedic. So I got to. Got to do that. My wife quit. She was working at a retail store. She quit. Whenever I started working for the fire department, I was like, I love. This is the best thing in the whole world. Like, you know, every day that I came home from work, I was just like a happy little kid. Like, I did the most fun thing in the entire world. I got to ride in a big fire truck. And everyone loves us. Everyone hates the cops. Everyone loves us, you know? Well, Hannah hated her job. I didn't realize it, but I was driving her nuts talking about how much I loved mine. Well, she quit her job and went and worked at the sheriff's department that I applied for. And she loved it. It worked for her. Great. So it was kind of funny. We had, like, professional photos done. It was super cheesy. I got a lot of flack for it, but, like, a photographer came to the fire department, and we got, like, photos of a fire engine in a police car. And I'm in my turnouts with an ass.
- [108:23]
Interviewer
Oh, I love that.
- [108:24]
Tracy Gray
Oh, it's so cheesy.
- [108:25]
Interviewer
I love it, though.
- [108:26]
Tracy Gray
I got grilled for a long time, but I'm glad we have them. Yeah. Covid hit, and we also found out that we were pregnant. We found Hannah found out she was pregnant. She hates it whenever couples say we're pregnant. But we found out Hannah was pregnant in early 2020, like, January or February. And it was amazing. You know, I'd always wanted to be a dad. Hannah didn't want to have children at all. She didn't want kids at all. And I guess I was just so, like, passionate about it that she wanted to honor that, which I didn't. She told me she wanted to have kids. Well, she didn't know she wanted to have kids until we had Nathan is what she told me. Hannah was, like, 20 weeks pregnant in a situation. She worked at the detention center at the jail. Like, a big fight broke out, and she was left in the unit. And, like, nothing against the. The sheriff's department, but it was just protocol. You know how it happened. And it scared both of us. And we were like, nah, no, we're not doing that. Like, we don't want to risk, you know, the baby at all. So she quit. And, you know, we're not rich people, right? You don't become a firefighter to get rich. You know, I make. I make a good living now. But I looked at our budget every way that I could imagine it, and I was like, there's no way that this is going to work. But we're. We'll figure it out. And so I was working at the fire department, and we don't run ambulances, but there's an EMS agency in town that. That I started working for part time on my days off at the fire department. You know, we work 24, 48. I'm on 24. I'm off 48. So I was working on the ambulance and going to paramedic school. I was working. I was either at the fire department on an ambulance working or on an ambulance doing clinicals. And I was working 100 hour weeks every week. Like my long weeks were at if. If I was working fire department and life. LifeNet is the company, the EMS agency. I was working 72 to 96 hours a week and. And sometimes more than a hundred. But we pulled it off and I graduated paramedic school. So I got a raise both at the fire department and at LifeNet. So I didn't have to work as much, but I still did.
- [110:50]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [110:51]
Tracy Gray
I tested positive for Covid three days before Hannah went into labor.
- [110:55]
Interviewer
Oh, gosh.
- [110:56]
Tracy Gray
So I miss Nathan being born, but I'm thankful that everything went well. My mother in law was able to be with Hannah, so she had a family member with her. The doc walks in and she's like, where's husband? Is he like being a lazy bum, like joking? They're like, oh, he's at home with COVID She was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I was trying to be silly. And Hannah was like, he wants to be here.
- [111:19]
Interviewer
Could they. Could you guys FaceTime?
- [111:21]
Tracy Gray
She. She allowed it. Okay, so the hospital that Hannah gave birth, they typically don't allow video like FaceTiming.
- [111:27]
Interviewer
Right.
- [111:27]
Tracy Gray
But the doc was like, I don't care.
- [111:29]
Interviewer
Right, Right. And during that time, it's so.
- [111:31]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. Right.
- [111:32]
Interviewer
Gotta break some rules.
- [111:33]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. I did get to watch Nathan being born like this.
- [111:37]
Interviewer
Right.
- [111:37]
Tracy Gray
You know, but it was still special. He was healthy, he was happy. I still hold it over my mother in law's head that she got to cut his cord. It's just something fun that I get to do. I guess now is a really good time also to say that I'm very thankful for my in laws. They've always been good to me. My father in law, he's the one that brought me to the airport this morning. We're. But we're just buddies. We've never been like. Well, it's not. I was going to say we've never been like father in law and son in law, but that's not true because I've looked up to. His name's Rob. I've looked up to Rob like he's my dad. And I, you know, I don't want to dishonor my dad, but Rob's always been a really good man to me and to our family. And my mother in law, her name is Anna. She's been like a second mother figure to me. I'm. I'm very blessed to have the. The in laws that I have. Nathan's born and our first family photo is me like a creeper. Like this on a glass, sliding glass door, looking through this door at my son and Hannah because I, you know, we didn't want to risk anything.
- [112:37]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [112:37]
Tracy Gray
But she came home and I'm like on their back deck looking through this sliding glass door and we got photos of it and it's. It's ridiculous.
- [112:43]
Interviewer
But that's cute though.
- [112:45]
Tracy Gray
Oh, yeah.
- [112:45]
Interviewer
Once again, it's like, it's like the light heartedness of it. You know what makes a sad kind of thing funny, you know?
- [112:52]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. They made it a lot easier.
- [112:53]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [112:53]
Tracy Gray
A lot of our friends, you know, we'd tell them or they'd find out that I was sick and they were like, like you said, they get super sad. Like, it's okay.
- [113:00]
Interviewer
They're like, right. Look at this picture. We. We dealt with it. Yeah.
- [113:02]
Tracy Gray
Little dudes, he's happy, he's healthy. When they finally got to come home, my parents also came over. And with my parents being. You gotta understand, like, at that time, I was 26 when Nathan was born, which means my parents were 86 and 85. There's 60 years between my dad and I. So they're. We didn't want to be around my parents either. Because of COVID Because we didn't know.
- [113:26]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [113:26]
Tracy Gray
You know, that's when Covid was scared of everybody. No matter who you were, you know, so Nathan was born, My parents got to come over and we all got to. We all got to meet my son, I got to meet my son, and my parents got to meet my son all at the same time. It was a really sweet moment. My. My parents, I don't know if I mentioned they were. They were foster parents. For 30 years. They raised over 300 foster children in their home. My dad, actually, I sat down with him recently and like interviewed him. It was weird because I'd never asked him some of the questions that I asked him. He said they quit counting at 30 or not 30 at 300. And I didn't know that. I thought they just had around 300. My sister, my. Their middle daughter, her name is Faye, she is 70. She was like, no, they quit counting at 300. One of the things about my adoption, I had a. There was like a backup plan because my parents were so old. My sister Faye was going to take custody of me. Had one, you know, my parents died early Which I was, I was very blessed. I. I lost my mom two years ago, but I had my parents all the way into adulthood. Yeah. Thank you. But it was weird. We. We shared that the other day with a couple people. Like, I had a backup mom. Like, that's what Judge Cook called Fay. But it was a real deal. But it was a really sweet moment because my parents finally got to meet my kid. And it was like this real surreal, kind of like it's finally full circle. Yep. And life was great. I worked full time fire and then part time Lifenet and I loved it. I, you know, don't get me wrong, I love being a firefighter. I love fighting fire. I never thought I wanted to be a firefighter. And then I remember the first structure fire. I went in. You just go in it, you know, you don't really think about it.
- [115:10]
Interviewer
You don't have time to.
- [115:10]
Tracy Gray
Yeah, yeah. And then I finally realized, and it's not like what, what you see on tv. You can't see anything. It's so black, it's so dark. The smoke's so dark, you can't even see your hand in front of your face. Well, once most of the fire was out and I could like not tunnel vision and actually think, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna burn building. Like, this is awesome. I love, you know, So I got that was like confirmation I'm in the right field. Nathan's born. I've got my paramedic. The ambulance was like my ministry. I loved, loved, loved, loved that ambulance. Which is weird. People think I'm a weirdo because not everyone likes the ambulance. I loved it. I worked those really long weeks, like 72 and 96 hour weeks up until like May of 22, and I hurt my back and I had my first back surgery, like May 23rd of 22, and I was off for. I went back to work on August 1st of the same year. And I had to take it easy. I still went back to the ambulance, which probably wasn't the smartest thing, but I had to like financially. I promoted also during the same time frame after I made medic. So we had a lot of financial hardship initially. But then I promoted, I made medic. So with me making medic, I got our department offers a 10% of your salary incentive, which is like the best incentive we offer. So I promoted and got more money at the primary job and then I got more money as a paramedic, so things got a little easier. And again, I probably didn't have to work as much as I did, which. And I need to give Hannah a lot of credit because when she was pregnant, I wasn't emotionally involved like I should have been. I was gone all the time. And when I wasn't, I was. I. I didn't. I didn't know how to, like, show that I was excited. You know, there were expectations that I didn't meet. And that. That's 100 on me.
- [117:11]
Interviewer
I think, too, for everything that you have gone through, it's not an excuse, but it's an. It's a learning curve, you know, And I think with work, that was something you didn't. Like you said you didn't really have to think through. You just knew that it was a really good. It's someone. Something that made you feel good. I feel like it's probably a really good distraction.
- [117:28]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [117:29]
Interviewer
You didn't really have to pour your emotion in.
- [117:32]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [117:32]
Interviewer
But then with a relationship, it's like you can love somebody but not know exactly how to show that love.
- [117:38]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. Well. And I dropped the ball big time. And I've. I've taken full accountability for it, and Hannah has forgiven me for it. And it's not that I was mean. It's not that I was not loving. It's not that I didn't express that I was excited for the baby, but for Nathan. But I could have done a lot more. I really, truly could have done a lot more. Um, and I regret that looking back, but we're past it. We're moving on. I love him more than I ever thought I could love a human, you know? But I worked until I had back surgery. I went back to work full throttle. My first week back, like, seriously, my first week back after my first back surgery, I clocked 137 hours, but I was working a couple of, like. That's also. People will say, well, how do you do that? There's like 160 hours a week. I'm working 24s. That takes a lot of it.
- [118:28]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [118:28]
Tracy Gray
You know, I think I worked an overtime shift at the fire department that week, too, so that was like a 48. And then I worked almost every other day of the week. I was working a 12 on the ambulance, except for one. And I actually worked like a 27 because I stayed over. I worked a full night shift and then hung over the next morning. So although that sounds like a whole lot of hours, I'm. I'm still. I'm also sleeping at the fire department. Work for a pretty slow department, so I'm sleeping at The. Those were my days off. We're at the fire department still in the middle of COVID Life is just good. We're learning how to be parents. Nathan was a wonderful kid. I was hard on Nathan. I still am sometimes hard on him in the aspect of I want him to know what's right and wrong, and he does. Nathan's a wonderful child. I. I love. I was really hoping the day that we video called that Nathan would be with us just so you could. He's the sweetest kid. And I know parents are biased, but I promise you, Nathan's the sweetest kid you'll ever meet in your life. But I'm. I'm hard on him, or I was hard on him on certain things. And. And it was always the things that would hurt him. You know, like, you can't jump on the couch, you can't stand up on the bed. And a lot of my family. And when I say a lot of my family, a lot of my family has died off. So when I say my family, a lot of my. My in laws. And we disagreed on some things, but I wouldn't budge on it because like car seat safety, things that a lot of people think are frivolous. You know, when you work on an ambulance or you work in a fire department and you see dead children. Yeah. You see it all changes your perspective.
- [120:04]
Interviewer
Right.
- [120:05]
Tracy Gray
So I didn't budge on it. And I was. I was tough on Nathan on manners and respect and being just, you know, a good kid. And there were nights that I went to bed and I just felt guilty, you know, not because I was mean to Nathan or. Or whatever, but because he would be sad. Sometimes you discipline your kid and it's, you know, not even like, when I say discipline, like, hey, you don't do that, and it ruins their whole day, you know, And I felt like a monster at times just from, you know, like putting Nathan in timeout or whatever. He would just, you know, and I had to realize that it's hard to be a parent, and there's a lot of grace that you have to have, but it's worked out for the best. And Hannah did the same thing. The. We talked about it before we ever had children. Like, these are our expectations of each other as parents. This is our expectation, you know, of the kids and so on and so forth. And some of it changes because you have unrealistic expectations before you have kids. Yeah. But for the most part, we've. I'm proud of our parenting. I'm very proud of Hannah. I couldn't stay home and be a stay at home parent because that is way harder than people give credit. You know, work never stops when you're a stay at home parent. And Nathan's a great kid. He's very well behaved. Austin, my youngest son, polar opposite, you know, so, but kind of moving into Austin, we, we always knew that we wanted another child. Hannah struggled with postpartum depression. Really, really bad. And that's something that, you know, another thing, I don't think people have enough. There's not enough light on that. And yeah, I was, I didn't know a lot about it, so I was like, okay, what is this? And when I saw it, I knew immediately, no, we're not ever doing this again. If we want another kid, we're going to have to adopt or, or just have one. And I was happy with Nathan. Well, I guess when Hannah and I first met, I made a statement one time, yeah, I want two kids. I want one of my own and I want to adopt one. And I don't know how much weight that carried as a 20 year old, you know, 21 year old. I'm sure I was just looking back on my past. Well, the church that we go to is big on. Um, you know, all of you out there that are pro life, are you really pro life, are you gonna sign up and are you gonna become fosters? They don't say it so aggressively, obviously, but that's the message. You know, if you really truly say that you love children and you love life, what about all these foster children that need love? And so I didn't want to foster at all. I didn't want DHS to be part of my life ever again.
- [122:51]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [122:51]
Tracy Gray
You know, in the state of Arkansas, their, their DHS vehicles are usually white vehicles with a red sticker on the door. I promise you, if there's one in this big city, I'd find it. And it's just because I'm like, it's so deep rooted. I didn't want one of those cars in my driveway. I didn't want to deal with caseworkers in, in the most important thing. I knew I couldn't foster because I knew I'd fall in love with the kids. I knew it, you know, well, we talked. Hannah and I talked about it and we prayed about it and we reached out to our family. I talked to my parents. You know, I never got to tell my mom that we actually made the decision to foster. And that sucks. I really wish that I could have told my mom and I'll Just let you know. Now I am a huge baby when it comes to my mom. But 22, I had back surgery. We make it through that, next year we start talking about other children. Well, 23, 20, 23, I hurt my back again and I had to have another back surgery in the same place. Same surgery, same place. Well, like 10, 11 days before I had that second back surgery. My mom had a colon resection. I didn't talk about other than my dad being handicapped. I didn't talk about my adoptive parents health. My mom had diverticulitis and she had some other health issues with being her age. I almost lost. We almost lost her a couple times throughout my childhood just from surgeries and afib and oh, which we never did. She got kicked in the head one time when I was in the ninth grade by a cow that almost killed her. Then I. Yeah, she was milking a cow and it actually was like a glancing blow. The hawks on the cow cut her head but when it cut her head, it cut an artery. We live out in the country. She literally almost bled to death. And I remember that that was the like July 3rd. Yeah, July 3rd of 2009. It was the same month that I attempted suicide. And I remember like she passed out and I was holding her and it was not a good deal. But yeah, the doctor called her a tough old bird, you know. So that kind of just got stuck in my head like my mom was invincible. Well, she had this culinary section at, you know, let's say it was. She was 87. That's a huge, huge, huge traumatic surgery for someone. That old surgery was successful. It was good, good. And well, they sent her home. The incision opened from this swelling which wasn't the big deal. It wasn't huge. But she ended up going back into the hospital with an infection. Still not the big deal. They got it under control and then she went in.
- [125:34]
Interviewer
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- [125:58]
Tracy Gray
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Interviewer
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Tracy Gray
I get an extra 5% off with.
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Interviewer
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Tracy Gray
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Interviewer
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- [126:24]
Tracy Gray
That's why you rack. And if you're not familiar with afib, like you have to, you have to control the arrhythmia, but you also have to control, you have to use anticoagulant therapy because in afib, your. The atrium of your heart don't function correctly. So basically the blood in the top of your heart pulls and it clots if you're not on anticoagulants. They couldn't put my mom on anticoagulant therapy because of the huge incision. They didn't want her to bleed uncontrolled if something were to happen. They were able to control the AFIB and keep our rate down, but she still ended up throwing a clot. And she had a massive stroke. And you know, my dad, she was home when it happened, in bed, and my dad didn't catch it. And it's really stupid for me, but I was really, really, really mad at my dad. And he's. He's an old man. He's not medically trained. He checked on my mom early that morning. It was like September 9th, whenever it happened, when she had the stroke. And he walked in early in the morning and checked on her and he said he thought she was mad at him because he was like, well, she wouldn't talk to me. She just mumbled. And he walked, went outside and took care of the chickens like she did every morning and came back cooked breakfast, went about his normal morning, and then, you know, a couple hours later went to check on mom because he thought she fell back asleep again. And when he went to check on her and she still didn't reply the right way, he finally went in and looked at her and realized something was really was bad, wrong. I mean, she. She had already begun to posture, which is, you know, not good at all. I'll get a phone call from my dad and he's just incoherent, you know, and I can't get any information out of him. Any, any good information. All. All I can get is mom has had a stroke and I'm like, why are you calling me? Call 91 1. We. The ambulance is here. Perfect. I'll talk to you later. I've, you know, I'm. Now I'm in paramedic mode. And it is what it is. I don't. It's weird. You shift like there's stuff that has to be done. We'll deal with the emotions later. So I hung up with my dad and I called dispatch because I, again, I worked for the company, called dispatch. Who's the truck that you sent to? My parents address. They tell me, I hang up with them. I call that paramedic on a cell phone because we're friends. And in the world of ems, there are good paramedics and there are not good paramedics. And it is what it is. And the good paramedics, you, you know, you just know how they operate, you know, to trust them. If it's not a legit emergency, no, we're not going to run lots and sirens to the hospital. If it is a legit emergency, some medics still won't run lights and sirens because it's so much more dangerous. And we can get things done in the back of the truck. This paramedic was one of those guys that. He's not running lights and sirens unless it's. They're. They're gonna die, like in. In 10 minutes, they're gonna die if we don't get there. And when he answered the phone, I could hear the sirens and I didn't even have to talk to him. And when he answered the phone, he didn't even say hello. He just said, dude, I'm so sorry. And that was a great house. I don't have time for that right now. I need to know what's going on. And he was like, it's bad. Okay. We have two hospitals in our city. And I said, are you going to St. Vincent? And he said, yeah. I said, well, I'll meet you up there. And when I got to the hospital, they were rolling her back from the ct. And the girl that was rolling her back was my wife's best friend who worked in ct. And her name's Kristen. And she was sobbing because she knew. Yeah, yeah. It was obvious. Well, after my second back surgery, I kind of petered off of I'm sorry. After my first back surgery, I quit working on the ambulance as much and started working at St. Vincent in the ER. So not only did I know the doctors and the nurses from working on the ambulance, but now they're my co workers also. So I get to the hospital and like the nurse who's over my mom, we're friends. The doctor over my mom, we're friends. And everybody is just like, you know, just solemn that everybody knows. And everybody's like, trying to sugarcoat it. I'm. I'm not ignorant, you know, to emergency medicine, you know, because that was like my favorite thing in the entire world. So when I got to see mom, you could tell it was a completed stroke. She was postured, it was a right sided stroke. So she could still talk. She was very slurred. She was somewhat coherent. She was in Trauma 4 at St. Vincent. And I knew that my parents had advanced directives and DNRs, but you don't think about it until it's time to implement one. And seeing what I saw and knowing the, like, trajectory of the next couple of days, there was no fixing that cerebral tissue. Once it's dead, it's dead. I also knew the protocol, the hospital, if we can't fix it, put them on a helicopter and send them somewhere bigger. It doesn't matter where you send them in the world, you can't fix that. So the doctor came out and talked to me and he's trying to sugarcoat it. And, you know, I was like, doc, hold on just a second. Let's get away from my siblings. My. By now all of my. My parents, bio children were there. I talked to the doc and I say, listen, I don't need your sympathy. I don't need your sadness. I don't need your sorries. I need to know the facts. Where are we? What do we have? How bad is it? And he's like, there's no blood. There's no blood flow at all. Her. The right side is completely dead. And I said, okay, she has a dnr. It will be honored because she wrote it, she filled it out, she wants it. And don't you dare fly my mom out of this, this hospital. And he's looking at me, he's like, well, we can go to, you know, ums. And I'm like, don't you dare ship my mom around and make us chase her. Just make her comfortable. And it looked like I slapped him. It looked like I reached out and slapped him. And you could tell that he didn't want to do that. He wanted to try. And it's like he wanted to try because obviously he wants the best for his patients. But there, there was something to be said about, like, we had a friendship. He knew that this was important to me. But I want to say this before I get into the next thing. My adopted siblings loved me, you know, but I was still kind of a black sheep with one of my siblings. And I'm not gonna. But she had a hard time, I think, with the way that my parents loved me. And, and it's. I think she had a hard time with how hard they loved me after I put them through everything. All of my siblings gave me tough love whenever I was putting mom and dad through the bad stuff, but they needed to, you know, And I made myself the black sheep. I. I made myself the black sheep. But whenever mom was in the hospital, there was one person calling the family. There was one person making sure everybody was okay. There was one person still talking to mom and trying to make sure that, you know, what she wanted was true. On the dnr, initially, I say one person. That was me. Everyone was looking at me, you know, like the. I don't want to say the scared little kid, because I wasn't a scared little kid anymore, but, like, the adopted kid. And that's how I felt. I felt like, oh, all of a sudden, now y' all are looking at the adopted kid, because I work in this field, and I know all these people for me to do it. And I was bitter for, you know, a little while. Stupid. But that's how I felt. Mad at my dad. I was mad at my siblings because I was like, oh, I don't get to grieve, too, you know, but in the moment, I was like, suck it up. This is their mom. Been their mom for a lot longer than she ever was yours. So, you know, I did it. I did it for my mom. It was a weird situation because she could still talk a little bit. So they brought a neurologist down, and then they brought a neurosurgeon down, and they came into the room. Of course, they, like, look at all the family members, see who's going to move toward them, talk. And I was the young one. They're looking at this old woman, my mom, and looking at the older siblings, and they just, like, point at me. And so they're like, we want to talk to your mom. Go ahead. She can talk. Don't talk to me. Talk to her. You know, and, you know, they were like, Ms. Gray, they're screaming at her because she's almost deaf, too. And she, like, opened her eyes and looked at him, and they said, do you want us to try to help, or do you want us to make you comfortable? And she held up the number two on her. On her. On her right hand. Her left side was almost completely postured by then, drawn up. And I knew that she would say that, but I didn't like that at all. You know, the selfish side of me wanted her to fight, go try something, you know? So they. They took her up to the fifth floor, which is hospice, and we started calling everybody. My dad still didn't understand how bad it Was. So we get her to the room. And it's. It sucked just because all of the nurses that I've. I developed a lot of really good friendships as an adult. Who knew how much of a piece of crap I was. I tried to really be intentional on being a good person and being a good paramedic, being a good coworker, being a good friend. And so I was able to build a lot of good friendships. And it sucked because everyone's just. Everyone needed to grieve. But right in that moment, I was like, why is everybody grieving right now? Like, let's all suck it up. Let's get through this. And so it made it more difficult that everybody, like, even when we went to the fifth floor, they're like, yeah, Tracy works for us. And now these nurses are crying. And I'm like, I didn't want to deal with it right now. I just didn't at all. So I went downstairs and I told my dad how bad it was. And, you know, they were married for 70 years. And my dad said something about, anybody can revoke a DNR at any time. And a lot of people don't know that. And he asked if there was anything they could do. And I said, no, dad, you know, it's. We have to honor what mom wants. And we. We kind of butted heads on that for just a second. But I explained it to dad and I was like, you got to come, you know, you got to go spend time with her. So we went and spent time with her. Hannah was at home with Nathan. The family started pouring in. I was calling everybody, and I don't. I'm like an object permanence person. I'm terrible about it if it's not right in front of me. I. It's not that I don't miss my family. It's not that I don't think about my family, but I'm so focused on the day to day stuff. I'm terrible about reaching out. So the family members that saw my phone number calling them, they all knew?
- [137:54]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [137:56]
Tracy Gray
So once I contact all of the family, I wanted to go home and I wanted to go get Hannah, Nathan and bring them up, because I wanted Mom. I don't know why, but I wanted mom one last time to be able to see Nathan. I don't. I don't know why, but she loved Nathan. So when I left the hospital, I got to talk to mom, and I was the last person that she ever talked to. And I just said two sentences. I got really close to her and I got right in front of her face where she could see me clearly. And I asked her, you know, I said, it's Tracy. And she said, tracy. And she was still slurring really bad, and her head was actually starting to draw to that left side, but she could see me. I know she knew who I was because she repeated my name. And I told my parents I loved them all the time, you know, But I told my mom that I loved her, and she said, I love you, too. And then. So that I just. I guess I never told my mom or my parents. I never thought about it, but I told her that I was very thankful for her. And she reached up with her right hand and touched my cheek. And my parents weren't physically affectionate. They weren't touchy. And so she grabbed my cheek and she said, I thank God for you. And that was big for me, really big, because I finally felt like I was able to finally tell my mom what I needed to tell her a long time ago. And it. It kind of sucked, too, because I felt like the woman that wholeheartedly loved me through everything. Now I'm. I'm there. And now it's. I've got my mom. I went home, and Hannah was like, why do you want to take nothing up there? That's weird. And I was like, just doing it. We're taking our son up there to see my mom. And she was like, yep, we're doing it. Let's go. And so we went. And by the time we got everything done and finally up there, mom was. She was unconscious. She wasn't unresponsive, or. She was unresponsive, not unconscious. I'm sorry. And I thought, am I going to traumatize Nathan by, you know, bringing him up here? But I know that I didn't, because he needs to see that. And when we came into the room, I kept him away from mom for a second. The family wanted to talk to us, and. And I was having a hard time, is what it really was. I didn't want to go back to Mom. And so Nathan was kind of bashful, but I finally got him to start talking. And one thing that I always did with Nathan is I always used to sing old gospel hymns to him at night. My mom was the pianist at our church, and she was, like, the most beautiful alto you've ever heard. And so I started singing with Nathan, and Nathan started singing. And mom actually opened her eyes and, like, looked around for just a second. She didn't do it. That was it. But she heard Nathan, I know she did. And that was everything. Of course. We get home and I just, I fall apart. I held it together in front of all my siblings because everyone else was not. And I wanted to be strong for them. I want to be strong for my dad. And I got home and I just fell apart. And I'd always told Hannah, like, it's not if I'm hurting, that's not your burden. And that is not fair. If you're in a relationship, that is not fair. It is, it is their responsibility, it is their privilege to help you suffer. And I remember that night I told Hannah, I went outside and I was like, just give me some space, please. And she did. And I came inside and, and I, I, I said, sweetie, I don't know how to let you help me, but I need you to help me. And she just hugged me. And it was like, it was like the best thing that she could have ever done. The next day, Nathan came in and I was still having a really, really, really, really hard time. I mean, it's two years later and I'm still not over it. You know, I feel silly. But Nathan asked me that day, daddy, why are you sad? Why are you crying? And, you know, I'm, I'm not that guy that's like, guys don't cry. I don't care, don't care at all. You know, I think there's a time and there's a place, you know, if I'm on an ambulance working to death, I probably don't need to be crying right now. If I need to be taking care of somebody after the call, absolutely, let it out. You have to. It'll, it'll eat you alive. Well, Nathan asked me, why am I crying? And I, I, I got to be a dad. And which I'm always a dad with Nathan. But I told Nathan that day, it's okay to be sad. Just don't stay there. I don't know where that came from, but that's the best way that I could tell Nathan how I felt and, and to try to teach him something. You know, it's okay to cry. And, you know, it's okay to be sad. Just don't stay there. And that was it. That was all the conversation took for, you know, my son, he went about his business. Let's see, that would have been September 11th. So September 12th, I got a phone call at 4 o' clock in the morning from my oldest sister. And she said, you need to get to the, you get to the hospital right now. And so I Did. I drove up there, and mom was really, really, really bad. Her respiratory rate was like 56. Her heart rate was in the 170s. She's an APIB with RBR. And when I touched her, she was. It was like she was in a sauna. She was cooking. And I was having a hard time because in a dnr, I didn't know this, but in a dnr, you can request, obviously, no cpr, no aed, no medications, but you can also request no artificial nutrition and no artificial hydration. So my biggest fear was that mom was going to lay there and starve to death or. Or just be dehydrated. And it. Killer. The nurse, the hospice nurse was supposed to come up and give her versed and fentanyl just to make her comfortable or not Fentanyl, Versed and morphine to make her comfortable. And the nurses in the room drawing the meds up. And like I said, mom's respiratory rate was in the 50s, which is insane. And she was really, really, really struggling. It was hard to see her like that. I was holding one of her hands when my sister Juanita was holding one of her hands, and we were singing to her, and she took one deep breath, and I. I don't know how many people I've seen die in my field. A lot. You know, it is what it is. And when she did that, I said, there it is. And the nurse was like, what? What? And I was like, that's it. And I'm. I'm feeling for a radial pulse. I can't feel anything. I felt for a carotid, and I. I. She had a carotid pulse, but she was in the 150s initially. And now she's, like, in the 40s, and then the 30s, and then she finally coded with a DNR. You just have to honor it. The nurse panicked, and she was like, we've gotta. We gotta do cpr. I was like, dude, do not touch my mom. You know, I was kind of. Kind of crappy. Maybe not crappy, but I was really, really stern, like, don't touch her. And then. And on that floor, I guess. I don't know. It was a weird reaction, I guess, for her to see a family member be like, no, we're gonna let it happen. But mom died September 12, 6, 28 in the morning. And I got to be with her, so I'm really thankful that I got to be there. But that also really sucked. But I just had back surgery, like I mentioned, and I struggled really, really hard with the fact that I Wasn't going to be able to carry my mom. And then we get to the funeral, and the funeral home is outside of the city limits that I live in or the outside of the city limits for the fire department that I work for. Then we show up to the funeral, and one of my fire engines is sitting at the funeral home, and six of my closest friends from the fire department carried my mom. They were the pallbearers. It's just. It's such a blessing because I grew up and all I ever wanted was a family, and I just kept getting stabbed every which way. And now I'm an adult, and I have my family, my adopted family, and I have my own family, but also have a family of brothers, you know, and sisters at the fire department. And they showed up without me having to ask them to.
- [148:25]
Interviewer
Family doesn't always mean no.
- [148:28]
Tracy Gray
And sometimes their. Their roots are so much deeper.
- [148:30]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [148:31]
Tracy Gray
And they carried my mom. They stood guard at my mom, you know, for the service. They carried her to the cemetery. They blocked traffic, and I never asked them to. And they stayed for the entire funeral service. Just good dudes, you know, I'd do anything for any of them. Mom passed in September. We finished all of our training for DHS that winter. So now we roll over into 24. We opened our home after a lot of prayer and a lot of support from our church. We opened our home for fostering in February. And we got, like, two calls over a couple of kiddos that didn't work out. It's just. Easiest way to put it. It just didn't work out. And then we got a call about our youngest son, and I actually said, no. Yep, I did, because there was a potential hepatitis exposure. And so I was like, no, Right. And we have a child that we have to protect. And I was adamant about it, and I was kind of a jerk about it. And that's just me trying to be honest. I was kind of a jerk about that one. But Hannah and I thought about it, because she went up to sit with him at Children's, and he has kind of a complex story, but he was abandoned, and there was no family. But he went into respiratory distress, so they flew him to Children's from Hot Springs, and Hannah went to sit with him even after I said no. Like, she still told dhs, I will go sit with him since someone else will. Yeah. And so she did. Hannah has a heart of gold. And I finally. I finally broke and said, all right, let's. You know, let's. Let's do this. But I talked to a couple of physicians at the hospital that I worked for, and they were like, dude, there's a cure for hep C now. Now, Like, a definitive cure.
- [150:33]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [150:33]
Tracy Gray
Why are you freaking out? It's okay. And so I was like, all right, well, we'll just. Let's try it. And exactly what I thought would happen when I saw Austin happen, when she handed me that baby, I fell in love, you know, he was just like. He was my son, Nathan. And we fought for 13 months. We hired an attorney. A couple of weird things happened where a family member, an adopted family member from halfway across the country came up and said that they wanted him. But the way that she went about it, she sent an email to dhs, like, as a whole, not even anyone specific.
- [151:08]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [151:10]
Tracy Gray
And it turns out that the grandmother. It was her sister. Her adopted sister, who put word in it. Anyways, it didn't work.
- [151:19]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [151:19]
Tracy Gray
And so how old was he when.
- [151:22]
Interviewer
You guys got him?
- [151:23]
Tracy Gray
Oh, he was 10 days old when we brought him home. Yep.
- [151:26]
Interviewer
He.
- [151:26]
Tracy Gray
He only. We only ever had one foster child, and it was Austin, and he only ever had one set of foster parents, and it was. It was me and Hannah.
- [151:34]
Interviewer
That's amazing.
- [151:35]
Tracy Gray
And we were very fortunate, very blessed. He's happy, healthy. Well, happy maybe not so much those first couple months, you know, he was. He had his mom. Didn't make great decisions, and I don't want to speak ill of his mom, but he had to detox. And he struggled the first couple months. I mean, big time. And Nathan was an easy baby. Austin. No, not at all. Not an easy baby. But it's all Hannah and I a lot. And it showed us how much love, you know, we. We had to give and how much he needed. You remember me telling you about telling Nathan it's okay to be sad, but don't stay there. The day that we found out about this adopted great aunt, I was at work. I promoted to a position at the fire department to where I'm in administration now. I work Monday through Friday. My title is medical training officer. So I. Anyways, I was at work in the middle of a fire academy, teaching our own fire academy. And Hannah called me and was like, you need to come home. Now she's boohooing. I'm like, okay. So I leave work. My partner takes over. I get home, and Hannah's just, like, dry heaving. She's so worked up, crying. Can't get anything out of her. And then she finally tells me, and like a ton of bricks, you know, just stops your Whole life, it feels like. So I'm like, trying to be the. Like, it's okay. Just calm down. This isn't gonna happen. I didn't know, but I'm trying to, you know, comfort her. But we get through, like, the big part of it, and we get calmed down a little bit. Hannah's still crying when Nathan gets up from his nap and comes down the hallway, and he's like. He sees Hannah crying. He walks up to her and gives her a hug. He's like, mommy, it's okay to be sad. Just don't stay there. I said that to him once. Like, and that was another thing for me, that it came full circle. This is almost a whole year later. And of course, Hannah's like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you remembered that. Had Hannah and I not plugged in as hard as we did at our church during this time frame, I don't know that we would have made it. Honestly, not necessarily our marriage, but just we needed a lot of support, and we didn't know how to go about it. And I'm glad that we went the direction that we did. We found some really, really good people that are close in our lives now. We're so thankful for them. We learned that, you know, we're not meant to be isolated. We're built for community. We're built for friendships. We're built for family. And sometimes you have to let other people help you carry your load. And that's humbling because we feel like everybody else has hard things to go through. Why would we give you any of ours? But that's what we're here for, you know, together to help each other, and we push through it. And then March of this year, we adopted Austin. And again, I guess my firemen just love to watch me cry. I don't know, but we're standing in the courtroom or in the halls of the courthouse, and like, a literally a third of my fire department shows up. I didn't ask any of them to come. Some of them were on duty, Some of them were off duty. And every one of them that showed up, like, I was like, dude, I just quit crying. Like, you know, but we got a big picture of everyone in the courtroom, of the. All the. The guys and me and Hannah and the boys. I got it on a 3 foot by 2 foot canvas and put it above my desk. So it's really crazy how it all came full circle, you know, and not to be, like, dramatic, but, you know, I was. I was that hurt little kid, and Then to come full circle and to get a hurt little kid and to love him, save him. We had to do a adoption bibliography because he was put on an adoption registry, and we were top of the list, thank God. But the lady who did the adoption bibliography, it was a facetime. She asked us all these questions. She gets to this one question where she's like, do y' all feel personally attached to Austin? His name wasn't Austin. We changed his name. Y'. All. Do y' all feel attached to. I'm gonna just call him Austin. And we were like, yeah. We give her a textbook answer. Like, we've had him since day one. We've. He's only ever known us. He's got a relationship with our son, yada, yada, yada. And I'm like, am I going to chase the rabbit and tell this lady, like, I was a foster child, or is it, you know, not even worth it? Of course I was like, yeah, it's worth it. I'm gonna tell her anything I can do to try to persuade her that we need to keep this child. So I tell her. I'm like, personally, I feel attached to him because I was also a foster child. I will be able to relate to him when he's older. And this woman, I. I didn't. I didn't realize I knew her. I guess I didn't really know her. After I tell her, like, I was a foster child, she says, I knew that was you. And me and Hannah are like. It's, like, super awkward. It's silent, and you can tell, like, we're both trying to come up with something to say, and she's just staring at us through the phone, and she's like, is your dad Merwin? Do you know anyone else named Merwin? You know?
- [156:57]
Interviewer
Right.
- [156:57]
Tracy Gray
No, probably not. And so I was like, yeah. She said, is your. Was your mom. Was your mom's name Thelma? Yeah. And she said, you're not gonna believe this, but I was your caseworker 30 years ago. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And she was like, your case made me quit DHS because the judge kept sending me back, and what are the chances, you know?
- [157:24]
Interviewer
None.
- [157:25]
Tracy Gray
Right.
- [157:25]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [157:26]
Tracy Gray
So we got connected in that very strange way. But it was a really cool thing to come full circle. Yep. Yeah. And. And I. I talked to her last week. She's been able to answer a lot of questions for me. We've been looking for a couple of my caseworkers. I never thought these doors would open. You know, Hannah and I Shared the trauma candy salad. Did you ever see that video? Like it was a joke? It's like a t. A trend on Tik Tok. Yeah.
- [157:52]
Interviewer
And is that how you got started sharing your story?
- [157:54]
Tracy Gray
Okay, Yep, it was a joke. Like we share this trauma candy salad on Tik Tok. And yeah, it took off and then people wanted to story time and the story time took off and then other story. And I'm. I'm pretty transparent. I try to be. I try to be honest and real. I feel like there's a whole lot of fakes that mislead people and you're.
- [158:18]
Interviewer
Definitely meant to tell your story. And I think that there's something so different. I always say this. You know, some of my favorite episodes on the show are from men because it isn't as often to see a man get vulnerable and be willing to share everything, you know, and something else that I wanted to mention is, you know, when, before you were talking about, if God was real, why would he let this happen? You know, there's no answer to that. But I like to believe that he puts these lives in front of people who he knows can handle it.
- [158:55]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [158:56]
Interviewer
And you not only handled it, but now you're using it to help other people. And not everybody could do that. You know, like I was saying before, there's people that could go through the same thing and not make it out. And of course, there were times where maybe you tried to not make it out, but you did, you know, and now you're here, you're sharing your story here. And the thing is, it's not only just that. It's these little moving pieces of even just doing a trend on TikTok. It opens these doors for you. And that isn't coincidence. You're meant to speak out. You're meant to share your story. And I truly believe I tell people this all the time. That is a different form of healing. Wayfair's big sale is returning. Get ready for way day. For four days only, score up to 80% off all things home with free shipping on everything from October 26th through 29th, score Wayfair's best deals like up to 80% off area rugs, up to 60% off mattresses, up to 60% off bedroom furniture, and more exclusive doorbuster deals. So mark your calendar and shop Wayday starting October 26th at Wayfair.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Learning through play starts with Lego Duplo. With Lego Duplo, toddlers can develop real life skills while having fun with colorful bricks made just for them. Large, easy to grip and, and safe to explore. When children express themselves with Lego Duplo, they build patience, problem solving and empathy. See your child learn perseverance and self expression with everything they imagine and create. Visit lego.com preschool to learn more. You know, there's something about owning your story for yourself and then watching how it helps others. I mean there are so many kids, male and female.
- [160:45]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [160:46]
Interviewer
That probably hold so much guilt, so much shame, so much embarrassment from their childhood, you know, and, and the family that they were handed basically, you know, and in so many different aspects. You can change people's lives by sharing your story. And not only that, but now you just adopted a child that was dealt similar cards. You know, when you thank God you got him.
- [161:14]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [161:15]
Interviewer
So fast that you can just give him this beautiful life. But you're absolutely right, you will be able to relate to him.
- [161:21]
Tracy Gray
You know, he's such a sweet kid and, and you know, you said there's so many people that are holding on to stuff we have had. Again, I never thought that people would be interested in and then I never thought people would reach out. So many people have reached out. And Hannah and I sit down and diligently break down their stories. And some of these people, like they say, we've never shared this with anyone. And I believe them, oh, a hundred percent. Because it's. Some of the stuff's deep.
- [161:49]
Interviewer
It takes one voice to make someone else feel like, oh, I can do that. It's incredible. That's why I always say to people, like I hear all the time, people will be like, I never.
- [162:00]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [162:01]
Interviewer
Thought I would tell this. And it takes hearing one other person to make you feel like if they could do it. Yep, I could do it.
- [162:10]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. And we're so blessed that people have trusted us.
- [162:13]
Interviewer
Yep.
- [162:15]
Tracy Gray
It's heavy reading their stuff, but I'm so proud of them. And you know, we have no clue where the tick tock thing is going to go. We don't even know what we're doing. But it's a way for us to love people and minister to people and, and be like a safe place and we tell the people that interact with us the most. I have a, I'm old school. I have a little, a steno pad. Yeah. I have their usernames written down and I say, hey, if you're, if you feel comfortable like telling us your real name, I got their real names written down so I can like, I want them to know that I truly care. And someone called us Imagine if you.
- [162:53]
Interviewer
Had that community at that age. You know what I mean? It's things like that, that it's like if you could even just, just change one child's life, you know, like a teenager, somebody that's going through the things that you went through and has a phone and then find you and your story. It's so inspiring.
- [163:11]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. People, I remember the hardest times in my life. What made it so hard was I felt alone and, and I wasn't. But I made myself feel like I was all alone, all by myself. And there were times where I was. But you know, there's, there are people who block people out or, or they get into a dark part of their life and they say, you know, I'm completely alone. You're not. Even if you don't know me or you or the other thousands of people in the world who have not the exact same story, but one very similar. You're not alone.
- [163:49]
Interviewer
Right.
- [163:50]
Tracy Gray
And there are people, and I'm sure a lot of the people, I'm sure there are a lot of people that hear us tell these, you know, these individuals like, we love you. You don't know that. You may not believe that. That's fine, I don't care. We love you. People love you. People think highly of you. You know, all of the pain that is in that is in you right now. You just have to trust me. It will be replaced with love someday. You may not know the purpose of your story right now, but in the future it'll be to, to share and help other people hear or not hear, heal. But that's so hard to listen to when it still hurts.
- [164:27]
Interviewer
Yeah. When you're in the midst of it for sure. And I think too it, it does go to show that you don't, like we were saying before as well, you don't have to have blood related family or friends to have a community.
- [164:41]
Tracy Gray
Right.
- [164:42]
Interviewer
Even if that community is solely online, that's still incredible. That's still huge. That still makes the biggest difference. And that, you know, I always say social media has its pros and cons, but that is such a big pro because, you know, years and years ago that wasn't the case. You didn't have these outlets, you couldn't Google things. You know, you couldn't find different groups and all these resources. They weren't at like your, your fingertips like they are now.
- [165:09]
Tracy Gray
Exactly.
- [165:10]
Interviewer
And I think that aspect is so, so incredible and it makes the biggest difference. And you know, I mention this too all the time to be able to type something in on YouTube and hear somebody's just raw, authentic story.
- [165:25]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [165:25]
Interviewer
That can make the biggest difference, and it does.
- [165:28]
Tracy Gray
I agree. I agree. And you have we talked whenever we did our. That when we talked the first time, I. You know, and I. I want to say it again. I genuinely commend you for what you do and giving people a voice. You're doing huge, huge, huge things for these people, and I'm sure you probably see a lot of the impact that you have, but I bet you don't see even, you know, half of what you're doing for people, and that's really important.
- [165:55]
Interviewer
Thank you.
- [165:56]
Tracy Gray
So thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the hospitality.
- [165:59]
Interviewer
Of course. You did. Incredible. Truly. Like, was this your first time telling your story, like, in depth, beginning to end?
- [166:06]
Tracy Gray
Yeah. Like this. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know that I've.
- [166:12]
Interviewer
That's not easy to do at all. No, but you are. Just the way that you describe everything that you went through and how vulnerable you get, it is so truly. Like. I know the. I feel like the word inspiring is thrown around a lot, but it is. It is incredible.
- [166:32]
Tracy Gray
You.
- [166:33]
Interviewer
There's no words. Genuinely.
- [166:35]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [166:35]
Interviewer
You know, and I. You should be so proud of yourself. And I know sometimes, just like you just said to me, it's not always easy to recognize those things, but to come out the way you have, and not only that, but then be willing to tell hundreds and thousands of people about it is unheard of.
- [166:58]
Tracy Gray
Well, I remember. I remember the darkness.
- [167:01]
Interviewer
Right.
- [167:01]
Tracy Gray
You know, And I remember I've got forgiven tattooed on my chest from shoulder to shoulder because I needed a reminder.
- [167:08]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [167:09]
Tracy Gray
Every day. And when you. When you go from remembering the hurt and the pain and then seeing how happy you can be and how peaceful life can be, I shout it on the mountaintops if people would listen, you know, but I've never known how to.
- [167:28]
Interviewer
Right.
- [167:29]
Tracy Gray
So.
- [167:29]
Interviewer
Right. You weren't given the tools. And it's scary. People don't talk about that enough either. It's like, I don't think. I don't think people want to not accept it. They don't know how.
- [167:41]
Tracy Gray
Yeah.
- [167:41]
Interviewer
And they're terrified because if you let that in and you're disappointed, it's like, well, let's go back to square one again. And who the hell wants to deal with that? Nobody.
- [167:50]
Tracy Gray
No.
- [167:50]
Interviewer
You know, so it's almost like you really have to be willing to just get vulnerable and be like, let me. Let me try this for me. You know, worst case, we do it again and again until we get It. Right. And it is scary, but. And it sounds cliche, but it does make you stronger. And it always, always teaches you something.
- [168:07]
Tracy Gray
I agree. Yeah. I agree. I think. I think that sharing is. Is healing because you get to share it, and it makes. It makes you, like, rationalize it and feel better about all of the things. But there have been people that I've shared my story with, and they're like, oh, my gosh. Like that. Listen, it's not. Get the something that gets stuck on the bad. What I'm trying to tell you is you're not alone. And then to see there. There's a couple people in specific that I have seen make changes. And I take credit for none of it. Zero. But I know that helping them find. How to start opening up and find help, there's not anything better, I don't think. You know, and if my sons, either one of them, Nathan or Austin, you know, not. Not just Austin, because of his situation. But I know what to be as a parent now because I had fun. I had a phenomenal. I had the best example. My adoptive parents. I don't know how they did it. I mean, I truly don't. Yeah. So it gives me.
- [169:06]
Interviewer
Especially at their age. That's not easy.
- [169:08]
Tracy Gray
Oh, no. Listen.
- [169:08]
Interviewer
At all. I feel like the odds were against them.
- [169:11]
Tracy Gray
My mom was a gangster.
- [169:12]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [169:12]
Tracy Gray
And my dad was a big teddy bear. But between the two of them, they had enough. Just enough fire.
- [169:18]
Interviewer
Amazing people.
- [169:19]
Tracy Gray
Oh, yeah.
- [169:19]
Interviewer
Same with you and your wife. Truly all just amazing people.
- [169:23]
Tracy Gray
I appreciate that.
- [169:24]
Interviewer
Of course.
- [169:26]
Tracy Gray
Oh, you did amazing. Thank you.
- [169:29]
Interviewer
Thank you. Was there anything else you think you got at all?
- [169:33]
Tracy Gray
No, I think I got it all.
- [169:34]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [169:35]
Tracy Gray
I think.
- [169:36]
Interviewer
I'm sure you did amazing.