Schizophrenia Took My Brother

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Schizophrenia Took My Brother"

Podcast: We're All Insane
Host: Devorah Roloff
Guest: Kelly
Date: January 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal, raw episode, Kelly shares her family’s experience with her twin brother Brian’s diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder. She traces their story from an idyllic, tight-knit childhood through the tumultuous years of Brian’s illness, examining how mental health challenges rippled through her entire family. The episode explores stigma, frustration, heartbreak, resilience, and the difficult balance between caring for loved ones and maintaining one’s own mental well-being.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Background and Childhood

• Kelly and Brian are twins, the youngest of five siblings; their parents divorced when they were babies ([00:29]).
• Childhood was largely happy, marked by a strong sibling bond—especially between the twins (“You wouldn’t really get me without him. So we did, like, everything together…” [01:24]).
• However, their older full brother, feeling left out, exhibited aggression and acted out, creating a sometimes tense home environment.

2. Relationship with Parents

• Kelly describes a good relationship with her dad, who provided fun escapes, but realized as an adult he never truly opened up about his own life ([04:03]).
• Early signs of introversion and undiscussed mental health challenges appear in the family history, with Kelly reflecting:
  “I think that my family is full of mental health issues, illnesses, some that are just not spoken about…” – Kelly [07:45]

3. Personal Mental Health Struggles

• Kelly experienced anxiety and OCD symptoms from a young age, though these were not recognized as such at the time ([07:26], [13:37]).
• Kelly’s anxiety manifested as negative self-image even in elementary school: “I remember being little, like second grade, and thinking I was hideous. Like I didn’t want to look at mirrors.” – Kelly [12:51]
• She was socially withdrawn during adolescence, while Brian was popular and outgoing.

4. Early Signs of Brian’s Decline

• Senior year: Brian ceased caring about school, failed to graduate with Kelly, and showed extreme self-criticism, particularly in sports ([14:25]).
• He briefly tried college but soon dropped out. At this point, Kelly and Brian’s closeness diminished ([17:39]).

5. Family Trauma and Possible Triggers

• 2017: Family vacation included a violent, traumatic incident involving relatives, which seemed to profoundly affect Brian, leading him to isolate and shut down ([20:15]):
  “That’s the first time I’ve ever seen him like that ... I do think that had an effect on him somehow.” – Kelly [20:43]

6. Losses and Onset of Brian’s Illness

• 2019: The family experienced three significant losses—uncle to alcoholism, eldest brother Michael to a drug overdose, and their family dog.
• Kelly noticed Brian was hit especially hard, becoming withdrawn and increasingly attached to weed ([38:24]).

7. COVID-19 Pandemic and Escalation

• Kelly’s own anxiety worsened during the pandemic ([43:24]).
• Brian’s behavior took a sudden turn: paranoia, belief that people were following him, and suspiciousness toward family began ([47:28]).

8. Acute Episodes and Hospitalization

• An argument with their father turned physical; police were called, leading to Brian’s first 72-hour psychiatric hold and an initial (mis)diagnosis with bipolar disorder ([50:10]).
• He refused to maintain medication regimens; delusions centered around inappropriate sexual accusations, primarily but not exclusively against their father, began to fracture the family ([52:04]-[58:57]).
• Kelly highlights the critical importance of achieving HIPAA release or power of attorney early in an adult family member’s treatment:
  “Right away, get this release form… It all happened so fast and just so rapidly…” – Kelly [52:39]

9. Living with Schizoaffective Disorder

• Clarified:
  “Schizoaffective is basically bipolar and schizophrenia as one ... he has manic depression and psychosis...” – Kelly [59:48]
• Brian’s daily reality involves persistent delusions, even with medication. The family sees worse symptoms if he stops meds or continues smoking weed ([60:39], [62:54]).

10. Family Relationships and Caregiving Complexity

• The caregiving burden falls mainly to their father (with support from their mother), both monitoring medication and accommodating Brian’s needs ([61:54]).
• Brian is unable to maintain employment; his limited work (Uber Eats) funds his weed addiction ([64:44]).
• Sibling relationships are strained; Kelly’s relationship with Brian is distant due to trauma, while their other brother David tries to maintain some connection ([67:08]).

11. Complex Delusions and Social Impact

• Brian develops delusions about sexuality, both his own and others’, and grandiose beliefs of being a famous musician (Jeff Buckley).
• Kelly discusses difficult moments, including his false claims of relationships with women from their past, occasional inappropriate behaviors, and trouble distinguishing reality from imagination ([73:41], [87:51]).
• Traumatic episodes for Kelly include feeling threatened by Brian during active psychosis ([91:30]).

12. Criminal Justice System Failures

• Psychosis led to a minor traffic violation and eventual arrest. Brian was jailed, injured, and not provided appropriate mental health care—prompting conversation about the need for better police and justice system training ([97:19]-[101:56]).

13. Coping, Guilt, and Boundaries

• Kelly and her parents each cope differently; both parents have struggled with depression and breakdowns as a result of Brian’s illness ([104:38]).
• Joining support groups (NAMI, Family Caregiver Alliance) provided some relief, but eventually reactivating trauma led Kelly to limit participation ([107:00]).
• On the need for self-care: “It’s okay to let that go... It’s okay that we’re not always feeling happy when he’s around or that we do have these feelings… It’s just not possible right now with all that’s going on in my own life.” – Kelly [131:42]

14. Stigma, Empathy, and Moving Forward

• Kelly emphasizes the need for empathy towards those suffering from severe mental illness, urging others to see the person, not just the illness:
  “It happened to Brian, who was least likely… He didn’t seem to have any anxiety or fears, but it happened to him.” – Kelly [136:03]
• She relates her work as a behavioral therapist for autistic children to the patience and compassionate responses required for Brian and others with mental illness.
• The importance of setting personal boundaries and not feeling shame in doing so is highlighted repeatedly.

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• [07:45] “I think that my family is full of mental health issues, illnesses, some that are just not spoken about…”
• [12:51] “I remember being little, like second grade, and thinking I was hideous. Like I didn’t want to look at mirrors...”
• [20:43] “That’s the first time I’ve ever seen him like that ... I do think that had an effect on him somehow.”
• [38:24] “Now looking back on it, I see how Michael was a drug addict... It definitely hit Brian the most.”
• [52:39] “Right away, get this release form ... It all happened so fast and just so rapidly…”
• [59:48] “Schizoaffective is basically bipolar and schizophrenia as one ... he has manic depression and psychosis...”
• [61:22] “It is extremely hard to have a relationship right now with him. Even right now, he’s not in our reality. So having a conversation, things just don’t really make sense.”
• [87:51] “He started to believe he was like a famous rock singer ... Jeff Buckley ... And he also thinks that I’m not his sister…”
• [104:38] “My dad was just a complete wreck from all the accusations… I felt pretty alone. I felt like I had to be the one to stay strong…”
• [107:00] “You can’t help somebody who doesn’t want the help…”
• [131:42] “It’s okay to let that go ... to be up front with those feelings too.”
• [136:03] “It happened to Brian, who was least likely to have this diagnosis....I would hope people could refer back to this ... and think, like, that's somebody’s brother or son or family member and that they're struggling and just have more empathy.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00—04:00: Introduction, family background, and childhood
• 07:26—14:21: Early signs of anxiety and OCD in Kelly; contrast with Brian’s demeanor
• 14:25—17:59: Brian’s struggles finishing high school, emerging withdrawal
• 18:07—21:15: Major family trauma during vacation – first signs of Brian’s psychological unraveling
• 38:24—46:48: Family loses and Brian’s slide into addiction; COVID pandemic amplifies everything
• 47:28—52:02: Onset of psychosis, hospitalization, medication non-compliance
• 58:57—62:54: Family fragmentation and struggle for care, boundaries, and understanding
• 83:12—91:30: Dangers for Kelly during Brian’s acute episodes
• 97:19—101:56: Jail incident; consequences of untreated severe mental illness in the criminal justice system
• 104:38—111:30: Family systems strain, therapy and support groups
• 118:19—127:56: Strategies for conversation with delusional loved ones, loss of close sibling bond, learning boundaries
• 131:19—140:10: Navigating guilt about “living your own life” and the importance of communication and balance
• 136:03—140:10: Combating stigma, empathy, and insights from her work as a behavioral therapist

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Guest’s Takeaways & Advice

• On Support: Seek family support groups (e.g., NAMI); connect with others who understand.
• On Care: Obtain HIPAA release/power of attorney early, before illness progresses.
• For Families: Acknowledge the reality of delusions for the patient’s sake—don’t argue, but gently redirect.
• For Self-Care: It’s okay to set boundaries. You cannot save someone by sacrificing your own mental wellbeing; you have to live your life, too.
• On Empathy: Remember, people with severe mental illness are still people—approach with patience, care, and understanding.

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Tone & Language

Throughout, Kelly’s tone is open, at times humorous, deeply vulnerable, and marked by a desire to reduce stigma. The episode is peppered with empathy, honesty, and realistic reflections on what it takes to navigate mental illness within a family.

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This summary covers all the major topics, personal insights, and emotional truths discussed. For anyone facing similar experiences – or who wants to better understand families affected by severe mental illness – this episode is a powerful resource.

Transcript

[Kelly]

So my name is Kelly. I am here to talk about my twin brother's diagnosis with schizoaffective disorder, but I also want to talk about how that affected my family. And I. So I'll also be talking about my own mental health, but mainly I want to center on my brother's illness. So I'm going to refer to my iPad, too, just because it's a lot.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Kelly]

So I'll start with childhood. So I have four brothers. I am the only girl. I'm the baby. Except I do have my twin that I'll be talking about who's 15 minutes older than me. So. And then I have a brother that's two years older than us. And then I have two older brothers that are half brothers, and they're about 10 to 15 years older than us. And so I'll talk about our living situation as children. So my parents and I are divorced. They have been divorced since we were babies, and we primarily lived with my mom. So it was me, my twin, and our older brother that's two years older than us. And I think it was like. I would say that it was normal, a pretty normal childhood. I would say that it was happy, too, my living with my mom. You know, she tried to do everything she can to make. To give us the best life. So we lived in a mobile home, and I feel like it was a pretty happy existence there. And. And then we saw my dad two times during the week, and he had lived with his parents in a retirement community. So we would. Whenever we would go there, we would be in the living room. That's. That's where our bed was. That's where we would sleep. So it was me and my brothers all sleeping in one family room when we. When we would go to visit him. But my twin and I were inseparable. Everywhere we'd go, people would be like, where are the twins? So you wouldn't really get me without him. So we did, like, everything together, too, and we played sports together. Yeah. I would say that it was pretty happy growing up then because of my twin and I being so close and everyone giving us attention. I think that did leave out my older brother. So we saw behavioral challenges with him. That would be like. That would look like a lot of aggression and being physical. So he was physical toward my mom. And then he would just attack my twin. And I. Like, if my mom were working, then he would be in charge of us. And that was, like, terrifying because he just wanted to be the boss of everything. And if we didn't do what he wanted. Then he'd be like chasing us around the house, trying to pick, pinch us.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Terrorize you guys a bit.

[Kelly]

Yeah, he was.

[Interviewer]

And he was that. He is your full brother. Right? Okay, got it.

[Kelly]

Yes. So yeah, he was a crazy one. And then I'll talk about us being in school as well too, so. Yeah. Oh, also, when we would go see my dad, his relationship with us was good. I, I really enjoyed going to see him. I think Brian and I, we were always so close to my dad. He treated us like we were his pride and joy because he would always say that we were pretty easy going kids. And then my other brother was just like not so easy. So he would take us to places like amusement parks, basically anything that we wanted to do. And we were with him for the two days. So we just saw him as being fun and like we could just, we could do what we wanted over there. But when I look back on seeing my dad, I do realize we didn't get to know him fully. He never really talked about himself. Every time I asked questions about him, he would, he would, he would start to answer them. But then he would ask me like, why am I, why are you asking so many questions? And it would deter me from wanting to asking anything else. So he never really wanted to talk about himself from like his childhood and even things that he liked and didn't like. He really just wanted to talk about what was going on in the world or if I had a problem or anything I wanted to talk about, I could talk to him. So at least he did that for us. He, he was always someone we can go to with problems. He just didn't want to talk about himself. But for Brian, my dad and him had a great relationship. They, they did so much together. They enjoyed sports, so they were really big on sports. They would always watch like games on tv. They went to games, anything that really involved sports. So you would see Brian hanging out with my dad a bunch. So that was really my childhood. Then we get up to like middle school, in high school years where I would see myself having mental health. I don't, I wouldn't want to say issues, but I would just see my anxiety starting to come out. So I'll talk about how, how I was during that time and then how Brian appeared to be. Because I obviously don't know exactly what was going in his head throughout his childhood or throughout his high school age. But for me, I was definitely realizing my own anxieties. So like I, I was very self conscious and so I had a lot of social anxiety. I didn't know, like, there were names for all of this back then, but I just knew that I didn't want to talk to people. I would just hide away. I would just avoid people. So I was kind of like a loner in high school. I didn't. But I kind of liked it like that, too. I didn't really want to, like, socialize. I just wanted to keep myself private so no one would really know who I was. But everyone knew who Brian was because Brian was a class clown. He was always the comedian. He's always trying to get people to laugh. And that's always been the case through childhood, too. He's just always trying to make people laugh. So in classes, he would. He would just joke around. And sometimes I would get him in trouble, too. But, yeah, everyone knew who he was. He was on the sports teams, too, so he had a lot of friends. And I even remember, like, walking through the halls and I would, like, see Brian and I would wave to him and he would just give me a head nod like that, because, like, he didn't really want to know. He didn't want people to associate me with him because I was, like, a nerd and he was Mr. Cool.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Kelly]

So that's like classic brother and sister, too.

[Interviewer]

So, quick question. What age would you say that you were when you started feeling the anxiety coming on?

[Kelly]

I actually can't remember a time without anxiety. I just started noticing it when I was about 13. But if I look back on it, there was, like, never a time without anxiety.

[Interviewer]

Do you have any idea of what you think kind of triggered it to come on, or do you think it was kind of just, like, with age, maybe?

[Kelly]

And yeah, that is such a good question, because I think of that all the time. I'm not 100 sure, but I think it's genetics, too. I think that my family is full of mental health issues, illnesses, some that are just not spoken about, some that haven't come to light. But I know from even my dad, he's an introvert. And I think seeing him be an introvert, I think that also played a part in why I didn't really want to talk to people too. Yeah. But I never really known a time without, like, feeling I was on the edge feeling I was, like, suffocating. So I remember things like even breathing. Like, I can actually feel that now because I'm. The anxiety doesn't go away. Like, I still have a hard time breathing. I just know how to better handle it.

[Interviewer]

I'm gonna say you just kind of like, learn to manage it.

[Kelly]

Yes, exactly. But back then, I would have difficulty breathing. I would get stomach aches. I would feel like I'm gonna throw up a lot. I. I just kind of like hid from the world because I had all these feelings. And then if I brought them up to my dad or my mom, well, my dad, he. He would call me like a hypochondriac. I remember distinctly we were at a. An Applebee's and we were eating, and out of nowhere I just felt like I was suffocating and couldn't breathe. And I told my dad that I can't breathe. And he called me a hypochondriac. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm just worrying too much about nothing. But now I realize that's a telling sign of anxiety. But it's very hard to look at a child and know exactly what's going on and tell that it's anxiety. Especially like when we were growing up, too, I think it wasn't talked about much.

[Interviewer]

The older generation, I think it's harder for them to understand mental illness to a degree as well.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

I feel like, like you just mentioned, it is so much more talked about now and understood in different ways than it was before.

[Kelly]

Yes, exactly. I don't think it was, or people were really aware of the signs of anxiety or any mental illness as much as we are today. So I don't blame my parents at all for not recognizing these signs, But I could just. I'm just like, oh, wow. If they were recognized back then, I could have been helped a little bit sooner. But, yeah, so that's how I felt most of the time. I'm not sure about Brian. He. If. If anything was going on with him, like, we would not have known. He wouldn't have talked about it. But he always looked like he was fine and just thriving.

[Interviewer]

Right. Like he had more of that outgoing personality.

[Kelly]

So, yeah, so he was definitely Mr. Cool in high school. So if anything was going on with him, we just would not have known back then.

[Interviewer]

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[Kelly]

Purchased so I I also was thinking about mentioning how anxiety looks at for children so I would I beo them like back in time a bit like for me too. It's crazy to to think about this but I I remember being little like second grade and thinking I was hideous. Like I didn't want to look at mirrors. I or I just kind of like deemed myself as hideous and I don't know why. I don't know how that ever occurred but I think it's just good to mention because children can feel like this too and I work with children now so I think about it. I apply it now to my work because I'm like children can have these thoughts and we should always be uplifting.

[Interviewer]

Children and just aware of it too. I think that there probably is that misconception that you know they're young, they don't Understand it like, you know. And I think too it sometimes can happen where there is no specific trigger. Like, and it could just be, you know, a generational thing or something where it, you know, we live in a world that is very stressful and it's constantly going and it's fast paced. And I think that on its own can induce anxiety on young kids just by seeing what goes on in your surroundings and at school and whatever else.

[Kelly]

Yes, I completely agree too. I think it's very. Environmental genetics predisposed. Yeah. Cause I can't think of anything that would have caused that. It's not like my parents were telling me, like, you're ugly.

[Interviewer]

Right. Nothing specific.

[Kelly]

No one was saying it. It was just in my head, myself. So those were the type of thoughts that I was having and like where I was all throughout childhood. Like I said, I don't really remember a time not feeling like that. So yeah, that was our high school life, our high school situation. Then I like a part where I think may have been a start of his onset. For Brian's disorder. The first thing I can think about is him not graduating high school. And I actually just thought about this yesterday because I'm like, oh, that might have been something like a part of it, a reason why. But for senior year he just started not wanting to do the work, not wanting to hand in his homework or assignments, just failing his classes and he didn't have a drive for it. And then I. I do remember my parents being very upset with him and he was so hard on himself. That's one thing I will say may have been a telling sign. He was very hard on himself. Even in sports, like playing baseball, if he struck out, he would just like throw the bat and even get kicked out of games. So I don't know. I think that definitely shows something. Yeah. And then I graduated high school and he wasn't walking with me. So my parents were very disappointed with him.

[Interviewer]

So did he just end up dropping out?

[Kelly]

He didn't drop out. And that's what I was trying to figure out yesterday, talking to my husband. Yeah, I. I'm having trouble thinking back to it. He didn't drop out, but I'm not sure if he got like his ged because he did end up going to college for a little bit after that. So I'm not quite sure how it went. I just know he didn't graduate with me. And my parents were very disappointed. And then moving on to early adulthood, college life. So we both entered college directly out of high school. We went to community college. And he only stayed in college for, like, I don't know, maybe a couple of months. And then he did drop out of college, and I continued, and I know my parents were disappointed with that as well. He ended up getting a job at a retirement community, and I think he was a dishwasher. But this is where I don't exactly know what was going on with him, or I didn't pay too much attention because I was doing my own thing and focusing on my life. And we didn't have much communication at that point. So we were going from childhood where we were inseparable, to high school, where he was not trying to hang out with me, to college years where we didn't really talk much.

[Interviewer]

Now, other than him not having much interest in education anymore, was there any other, I guess you could say, like, behavioral changes that you saw in him or. Not so much.

[Kelly]

Not anything that directly stands out to me.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

Yeah. There's nothing I can think back on that I know of right away.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

But I just knew that he was hard on himself. I think we all saw that, But I don't think any of us, like, thought much of it, because a lot of people are hard on themselves.

[Interviewer]

Right. And it's a weird age, too. I feel like at that age, you're trying to find yourself and your interests are changing and everything in between.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So we didn't see anything at that point. And then I think we can go up to 2017, where I would think our first traumatic incident occurred.

[Interviewer]

And how old were you guys at this point?

[Kelly]

2017. We were, like, 22. Okay. So we went on a family vacation, and we were seeing my aunt and cousins on my mom's side of the family. We would see them. We would try to make a trip, like, each year to go see them. And so, long story short, my cousin's husband was brutally beaten by my cousin. So my cousin's brother. So if that makes sense, they.

[Interviewer]

So your cousin's husband.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Was beaten up by another cousin's brother.

[Kelly]

So I have a cousin named Brittany.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

Who has a husband named Steve. And then my other cousin David, who's Britney's sibling.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

So Brittany's brother. So David beat up Steve. Got it.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

They were drunk. And it just escalated so much. Some family secrets started coming out of abuse and just, like, things that were not known. We were all so shocked. They were just, like, spilling it all out. And we were just, like, sitting there listening to them. And then they. David just attacked Steve and beat him so bad to where he almost died. We saw that he. His just his face was like completely not his face anymore. It was like swollen and we saw blood smears on the wall and we had never seen anything like that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's scary, right?

[Kelly]

We were with my mom, Brian, and then Robert, my brother that's a couple years older than us. And while my mom and my other brother reacted with me, we were all reacting to it. Brian, I saw himself isolated and shut down. And that's the first time I've ever seen him like that. So I do think that that had an effect on him somehow.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Like a trigger in a way, right?

[Kelly]

Yeah. I think like some things just build up and, and cause the trigger to happen. And I think that was one of them for him, for us, for the rest of us. I think we all reacted and expressed ourselves. We all did stop talking to that side of the family. We do not talk to them anymore because that was just crazy. But at the same time, none of us really spoke about it after that day. So we never really had a conversation after that. I don't think he. I don't think Brian got to let it out. I don't even know if he would know how to talk about that. But yeah, so that was crazy. Then we go up to, I would say me going to a university, four year college. So as far as my mental health, I was doing pretty good in college until I started having panic attacks. So for me, now I know I'm diagnosed with panic disorder, but. So cool, right? What a joy.

[Interviewer]

I know when you're talking about the feeling that you had at where was it? Applebee's? Yeah, I have that happen a lot as well.

[Kelly]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

So, yeah, it's like, it's literally the worst feeling. So I get it. And I still. It's like it. It still happens randomly too. And it's one of those things that it's like it doesn't really go away. It's just like you learn to manage it and push through it. And that is the. Anybody that doesn't have anxiety, I feel like they don't get it. Like once your head has something happen, like you're in your brain, you've had this experience, experience of like feeling that feeling.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

It's like it wants to keep feeling it as like a form of torture. It's like, oh, I felt it once. Like, let's just keep it up. And it's like any environment that's similar to that and it doesn't matter how much you tell yourself, like, I am Fine. It's just like your body shuts down. It's bizarre. It's like the worst thing.

[Kelly]

It is the worst thing. And it's all just. It's not even like you doing it to yourself. It's like you're. It's just your body attacking for.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's like you don't want it to happen. Like, it's like the worst thing, but. But it's. Yeah, I think that. And it's so interesting. I really do. Even just from talking to other people. It's one of those things that once something like that happens, once it's like your body holds. It's like a crappy feeling. It's like it holds onto it, and it's just like this response in situations that I feel like you're not super comfortable in.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Have you noticed that if you, like, if you're feeling that way and then you go into a situation, for example, like, if you were somewhere that you weren't that comfortable and you had, like, the panic feeling, if you removed yourself and just, like, went home or went somewhere that was, like, comfortable, do you notice it would go right away for you?

[Kelly]

I would think so. I. I don't know if I've ever, like, removed myself or. Because I. I'm just like. I felt it for so long because I felt it throughout childhood, that it's just become what I'm accustomed to. Yeah, it's become the norm. But it kind of just happens abruptly, too, when I'm in this situation and can't leave.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Kelly]

So.

[Interviewer]

So that's why it's like, I feel like, too, for people listening, it's like any. Any situation that you can. That you're in to give yourself control. It's like, it's okay to just, like, be honest with yourself of, like, what you need.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

But then also to be honest with, like, the people around you. Because I feel like it's really common too, for some reason that, like, you feel. I don't even know the word not. Maybe not ashamed, but it almost feels like a burden in the moment. So you want to, like, hide it even more.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So I feel like just to, like, speak out and be like, look, this.

[Kelly]

Is how I'm feeling.

[Interviewer]

Just want to let you know, like, I feel like I'm gonna pass out or vomit or shit myself. That's what I say.

[Kelly]

So I always say that too. I always just go directly to, I'm gonna pass out. Right. Yeah. Because it's like, you need to know how I'm feeling. Right.

[Interviewer]

Now, because if not, I feel like it's easy to kind of pick up on that.

[Kelly]

Like, are you okay over there?

[Interviewer]

No, not really, but no. So I. I get it to a degree for sure.

[Kelly]

No, it's so good to hear somebody else get it, too. But to answer your question, I think now I can recognize that when those situations are occurring. I think back then, I was so accustomed to it that I didn't allow myself to leave those situations. I just stayed. Also, because my anxiety is like, you can't leave. Like, they're gonna want. They're gonna see that something's happening, or, like, they're gonna be like, are you okay? And I do not want people to ask me if I'm okay.

[Interviewer]

It's a crappy thing. It's like, there is no right thing to do. You're just like, let me just sit here and not move until it, like, hopefully goes away. The worst. The worst feeling ever.

[Kelly]

I mean, now I do have a partner that. That helps understands.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

What I'm going through, because I've told him literally everything. My husband. So I do have somebody who I can tell, like, I need to get out of here. And he knows exactly when my anxiety's starting to happen, and he knows what situations are going to make it occur, too. Like, just being in public in general.

[Interviewer]

And I think, too, when you're with someone that you have that comfort with, it helps ease it, for sure. Like, I noticed that even with myself, it's like, if I'm with a family member, like my really close friends, like, I know it really won't happen, or if it doesn't say, but it's like, if I'm not with them and I'm alone, I'm like, this is not going to be good. Like, I need to prepare myself.

[Kelly]

That's exactly how I feel, too. And, yeah, it definitely started happening in college days. And the first, like, panic attack that I remember was not too long after a breakup, like a terrible breakup with my first boyfriend. I was just inside my head and so many thoughts going on. I was just, like, feeling so many emotions and getting overwhelmed with them. I couldn't stop thinking. And that's now I now how I realize the panic attack is occurring, but I didn't realize it at that point. I was, like, just thinking about it over and over. Also because I have ocd, too. And so my brain is just, like, continuously going on. And I was in. I remember being in a car and this was happening. And then all of a sudden, my head starts to go Numb. And I'm like, my body's all tingly and then I start to hyperventilate. And that's really how a panic attack starts. Starts for me, like, as I'm talking about it, I can feel it happening. So I try to. I know. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because that's how the brain works. I get it.

[Kelly]

So take your time.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

I totally get it over here. It's crazy. I haven't had a panic attack in so long. So. Yeah, because I'm on meds now.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Kelly]

But back then I was not medicated, so it was just happening. And then it was. It was just the craziest thing I was. I started hyperventilating and then I thought I was dying because. Yeah, like a panic attack feels like you're just dying, you're having a heart attack. Once I was able to stop crying, which happens for like 10 to 15 minutes, just doesn't stop. Then I like, what in the world was that? My. My other brother was with me at the time and he was like, what was that? What, are you okay over there? I was like, I don't know what occurred. And actually at that time, my older brother was kind of a security for me because he was the first person I experienced a panic attack with. And I told him what was going on and he started recognizing that I was having these a whole bunch. So, yeah, that was definitely in college days. It would be. I realized that alcohol was a trigger, so going out and partying wasn't the best because if I got drunk, I never knew which way it was going to go. It's either going to be a great time, we're having so much fun, or it's going to turn into a panic attack at the end of the night. And like, sometimes it would just happen. Like, I don't even know the trigger. I just would start panicking and it would just. It would. It would just be a panic, a full blown panic attack. And I remember calling my brother each time those would occur too. And he would talk me down. Because you do need somebody to talk you out of it, like, because once you have a panic attack, it feels like it's never going to end.

[Interviewer]

And it's very isolating, too.

[Kelly]

Yes, it is. And people who haven't had it just don't understand. And they're like, oh my gosh, what was happening to you? So, yeah, that was. That was a crazy time. And that was the beginning of my panic disorder, I think. Actually, I don't think that was the beginning. I think I had one panic Attack. Previously. The first time ever was when I was around 13, okay? And I remember 13 so, like, so well, because that's when I started realizing my OCD as well. So I'll go back to 13. So my first panic attack was when I realized this is very morbid, but that we're all gonna die. And I started realizing, because I. I grew up in a. Going to a Christian church, and so my mom, she didn't, like, harp on us having religion in our life. Like, you don't have to believe in Jesus, but I'm gonna show you that Jesus is a thing. So I grew up going to church and thinking, like, that God is real and everything. And that also was a part of my ocd because every night I had to pray. Like, my mom, my dad, everybody in my life has to be okay. And if I didn't pray, I would think, like, the worst was going to happen. So. So I think that was part of my OCD. Yeah. And then. So I. Then, at age 13, I started thinking about it for re. Like, for real. I started thinking, like, oh, my gosh, wait, is God real? Like, are we're all actually just gonna die one day? And that is so crazy. And, like, we're all just living on a planet, like, that's just floating around in the sky, and that's.

[Interviewer]

You start driving yourself crazy.

[Kelly]

I was driving myself crazy, and then I had a panic attack right then and there, and I couldn't breathe. I just, like, fell to the floor, and nobody saw me. I was just alone in my room having a panic attack. And then I was like, what in the world was that? But now I look back and they think that's my first panic attack. And then after that, I started to replace praying in my head to God because I don't think I necessarily believed anymore at that point. So I had to replace it with something else in my head, which came along my ocd. So. So this is kind of crazy, but because I still do it to this day, probably even as we're speaking, I, like, subconsciously do this, but I, like, spell all the words I'm hearing in my head. But I have to put, like, good words on the right side of my brain and, like, bad words on the left side of my brain. It won't make sense to. To anybody who doesn't go through this, but I'm just spelling words out all the time, and if I don't do that, then I feel like something bad is going to happen. Or I'm. I think at 13, I thought something bad would happen to my family, or like, whatever I didn't want happen would happen. So it was kind of like this continuous thing. It was a ritual that I had to do and still have to do just to keep control. Now as an adult, I think I. I recognize it, and I'm like, it's just a thing to calm my anxieties and kind of. I think it kind of mellows me out a bit too.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And would it. Look, whatever works for you.

[Kelly]

Right. Like, I think. I think it helps me to come back and gain control a bit. At the time, I thought, like, at age 13, I'm like, if I don't do this, then all these bad things are gonna happen. So I have to keep spelling. But now I'm like, I have to spell words in my head just because it calms me down. But yeah.

[Interviewer]

When you started having more panic attacks more frequently in college, did you go to, like, a therapist or a psychiatrist and get diagnosed at that time, or.

[Kelly]

Did you wait a little bit? I had a wait. I. I waited a little bit. I did not go at that time.

[Interviewer]

You were just mainly calling your brother to, like, calm down when it happened?

[Kelly]

Yes. I don't think I thought to go to therapy. Yeah, I. I just wasn't at that point yet. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So young, too.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And everything was moving so fast at that age. I just kind of dealt with it. Right. And thought of it as like, oh, yeah, this is my. This is my norm. I just have panic attacks. Yeah, it's fine. But, yeah, so I. I would. I would talk about them, though. And that's one thing I think I am pretty good at. Just, like, talking about my feelings and, like, letting it out and telling whoever will listen. So I wasn't holding it all in. I was still getting it out at. At times, whenever I needed to. But it did feel like a panic attack could occur at any moment. Like, I would just wake up and feel on the edge and feel like, this impending sense of doom for, like, no reason. Yeah, I just. I think I just had, like, a lot of fears and recognizing now, I think, like, not believing in a God or anything, I think that contributes to do it greatly because that's really scary to, you know, not believe in anything and go through life. And I think that's where I was at at that point. I didn't have any. I didn't have faith in things. I just kind of thought negatively. I thought, like, the worst was going to happen. So I think having that mindset, too, it just is a Recipe for disaster. Like, you're just. Just gonna feel the worst. Yeah. But I think, like, college for. For me was just an eye opener for all those things. Yeah. So then as for Brian during that time, yes, he dropped. He dropped out of college. He wasn't. He was not going to college when I was in university. I think he just had. I don't know what job he had at that point. And then I'll move on to 2019. That is a pretty bad year for us as a family. That's when things took a turn for the worse. So we had three deaths all around the same time, like, within a span of three months. So first it was my uncle who died of cirrhosis of the liver. He was an alcoholic, and we didn't know him that well. He's my dad's brother, and both of them are introverts, so they didn't really take time to see each other. They. They didn't really have any gatherings. My uncle didn't come to see as much, just on occasions like Christmas. So we didn't know him that well. But we got to see him at the end of his life because my dad became his caretaker. So we got to see him dying, which was just really sad, of course, to see anybody like that. We saw that he was just like a shell of a human. He couldn't really formulate thoughts. He was just kind of sitting there. Like, I do remember maybe it was like Thanksgiving, and he was sitting on the couch, and he had placed a blanket over his head. And then my dad's like, what are you. What are you doing over there? And then my uncle was like, I don't eat. Like, I don't even know. And it was just at the. You know, we kind of, like, chuckled at it at first, but then it's. It's just really sad to think about, like, he was just. He was fading away. And then he eventually passed. And then my dad, he definitely cried. I've never really seen my dad cry like that before. He's not one to show much emotion. But, yeah, he was very upset about that, obviously. So that's where I think addiction starts in our family. I think we could see that it's a thing. Then a couple months later, my oldest brother passed away, and he died at age 36 of a drug overdose. So his name is Michael, and he definitely plays a part in this whole situation. So Michael and then my other older brother, David, were. We had always been so much younger than them that they were our basically caretakers at times. They These are the half brothers? Yes. Okay. There are half brothers. And so they would babysit us when we were little, and we always looked up to them, and we mostly knew them in our childhood. And so, yeah, so we would know them as our younger selves. We didn't.

[Interviewer]

Weren't super close with them when you were older?

[Kelly]

No. And I realize why now because I thought they just had left our lives. Well, David doesn't have part in this, but Michael, he stopped seeing us. And we found out because of my mom not giving him money for anything anymore. But as children, we didn't know that there was a drug issue, so we thought he had just stopped coming to see us. And then after he passed away, we found out from my mom that he had been addicted to drugs. She had known the whole time, but kept it a secret from. From us, which, of course, is probably for the best. But now looking back on it, I see how Michael was a drug addict. I see different times that fit that way of life. So it definitely hit all of us. Of course, it was very shocking. Like, how did he die of a drug overdose? Like, he, He. We had never known anything of that before. So it hit me, definitely. But I think it hit Brian the most. I mean, my mom, of course, because that's her first baby, and she was distraught. She does have God and Jesus to fall back on, and I think she's very strong in her religion, so I think that's what gets her through. But definitely Brian, it took a toll on, I think, because he just looks so. Looked up to Michael. So much. So even at his funeral, we. But, like, when I was there, I was just kind of, like, talking a bunch. I was asking questions to my dad because my dad was next to me. So I would ask him, like, what's going to happen now? I don't. Like, how do you even, like, know God is real? Like, things like that. I was just chatting it up. I mean, I was definitely sad. But I saw Brian. He was just like, he had his head buried in his hands. He was very distraught. And I remember going up to Brian and thinking, just asking him, are you. Are you okay? But he didn't want to talk about anything. So, yeah, Michael passed. And then a couple months after that, we lost our family dog. And that was a hard one, too, because our dog was precious and just the best, the sweetest little boy. So again, it took a toll on all of us, but it definitely affected Brian because while I was away in college, I didn't come home as often, but Brian was He was living at my dad's house at the time, so he was with our dog all the time. It was just like his best little companion. So he grew quite an attachment to him. So I remember even asking Brian after our dog died, like, how he felt, how he felt and everything. And Brian, he let it out to me that he just wasn't. He wasn't doing okay. He was. He was not wanting to have another dog after that. And I. I think it was like a good chat. I think he was finally, like, opening up about his feelings, because I never really heard him talk about his feelings before like that. So. Yeah, but we got all those hard hits that year, and I think that may have caused the onset of his disorder. That same year, 2019, Brian became addicted to weed. And, like, when you think about weed or when a lot of people think about weed, at least when I think about it, I don't think of it being like, that bad. Anything to be so worried about. I mean, I did partake in my college years, but does not do anything good for me, so I don't really touch that. And I am also lucky because I don't have an addictive personality. I've never been addicted to really anything. But as you can see, there's a lot of history of addiction. So sadly, I think Brian trying weed, it was just something that would happen. It would make him addicted to it. So he. Once he started, he just couldn't stop from there. Like, till this day, he has not stopped smoking weed. So, yeah, 2019 began his addiction, and then we go on to 2020. So the pandemic happens. Yes. So I'll start with COVID For me, so for. My mental health was terrible because I'm also a germaphobe, and my anxiety spiked. Just. It was at its greatest. And I just thought of it as like the apocalypse, you know, I thought nowhere was safe. And I was so fearful of losing my family members. I think that's, like, the biggest thing for me is I'm just so scared to lose somebody. So I. I was just like, I. I'm not letting that happen. So I was that person that would gear up and go outside. Like, when we were going to the grocery store, I'd be in, like, latex gloves. I'd have, like, double masks, a shield over, you know, just very probably annoying, even for my husband, too. Like, when we went to a grocery store once, like, I do remember we got chicken, and then we got into the car and he starts eating chicken. And I'm freaked out because I'm like, you didn't wash your hands? Are you trying to kill us? You know, we're gonna get Covid now. It's just gonna happen. It didn't happen at that point. We were fine. But that's my mental level at that point. It was just so much fear and anxiety. So Covid was not a good thing for me. I mean, for anybody. But, yeah, it was just terrible. I think people around me were more like. I think everyone was. Had some type of fear about COVID but people were more mild and relaxed about it. Like, for. For my brain, I just wasn't able to relax about it. But I. I know Brian and my dad got Covid around the same time, and that. That was like. My worst fear was like, oh, my gosh. My family members have Covid now. So I would check in on my dad every day. Cause I just thought, like, you know, the older you are, the more susceptible to the worst parts of COVID you'd be. But they were both like. It was just colds for them, really. So, yeah. So Covid happened, and then shortly after that, Brian had wrecked his car. He was driving. He was driving to a bank, and then he just. He hit a pole. I always say pole weird, but it's not pool. A pole. And so there was damage to the car, and I believe that was a newer car, too. So when he brought it home, my dad was very upset because my dad got him the car. But at the same time, Brian was extremely distraught. Like, he was just beating himself up. He was calling himself an idiot. He was more upset than anybody. So my dad recognized that, and he said he had never seen Brian like that before. So he was. He wasn't, like, hard on him. He wasn't trying to harp on it or anything. Like, it's okay, you know, it was just an accident.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

But I think that's also when we started noticing some changes. It was just. He seemed to be more depressed. And then that brings us to when Brian and I and my mom actually worked together. So 2020 is when I graduated college. And directly the pandemic occurred. So I wasn't trying to find a job in my field. I was not prepared for that yet. So I just.

[Interviewer]

Were you able to walk across the stage still?

[Kelly]

No, no, it was online. We weren't able to walk, I think. So that was probably.

[Interviewer]

I think that was the same time that I graduated. I didn't walk either.

[Kelly]

Oh, wow.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You're 28, right? Yes, I turned 28 next month. So we're pretty Close.

[Kelly]

Happy almost birthday. Yeah. So.

[Interviewer]

So you guys all were working together?

[Kelly]

Yes, we were all working together at a place called the Christmas Tree Shops. I don't know if you have that here in Maryland.

[Interviewer]

No, but something. We have similar stuff.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Is it just, like, for holiday stuff and.

[Kelly]

Yeah, holiday decor. It's a. It's kind of like a mix of everything, but they. They shut it down.

[Interviewer]

Okay. We have something similar to that.

[Kelly]

Okay. Yeah. So we all worked there, so it was me, my mom, Brian. And then one day after our shifts, Brian and I got off at the same time. We met in the parking lot afterwards, and we just stayed in the parking lot for about an hour having a conversation, which was nice. It was just good to catch up and talk to him. But that's when I started noticing a change, really? After hearing his thoughts, he. He was talking about people from our high school being at the Christmas tree shop, like, following him, and just different. Just different things of paranoia. I don't remember the exact conversation, but I just knew he was paranoid about people following him. And then he started talking about my dad. He's like, how do you. How do you really feel about that guy? And the way he was talking, I thought it was a joke at first, and so I was chuckling. But when he really started going into it more, I realized he's. Oh, he actually, like, believes this. Like, people. These people were following him. They were there. I knew that they weren't there.

[Interviewer]

So the people weren't even. The people from high school weren't even at the Christmas place?

[Kelly]

No.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

No, they weren't. So then I. For. For me, I did not go against his beliefs. I just asked him about them. Like, oh, who was it that was there and where did you see them at? Like, just questions like that. And he answered them as if it were actually happening. And then. But he. He was, like, in good spirits. He wasn't. He was talking about it like it was pretty normal. And then after that conversation, I called my parents and I. I mentioned to them, like, I. I think Brian's going through something. Or like, do you guys notice a change in him? I told him about the conversation, and I said things seemed a little off, but they. They didn't notice. And they. They put it to the side. Like, they. They just didn't really see it at the time, which is hard, too. I mean, we were all so busy, so it was hard. It was hard to see right away. I think with my background, because I study psychology and. Well, have always been interested in psychology and Just mental illnesses. I, I think I knew, I think I just knew from the start. I think I also, you know, being his twin, I just.

[Interviewer]

You could sense it.

[Kelly]

Yeah, I just felt it. So after that conversation, probably not too long after that, my brother called me, my older brother Robert. It was later at night, it was probably around 1 or 2am and he was, he was just freaking out about my brother Brian and my dad being in a fight. He was like, Brian, Brian is fight. Is trying to fight dad. I don't know like what he's talking about. He's just really upset and I'm not sure what to do. And I'm like, like what is the fight even about? And Robert didn't really know either. But what we know now is Brian basically like he was kind of out of nowhere in the morning, was just so upset. He started like yelling and screaming at my dad and calling him gay. Just saying is just accusing him of being gay. Which, you know, my dad. I mean I, I don't know for sure for sure. But like as far as we know isn't like there's. Yeah. So he was just making accusations against my dad and just in screaming at him and he wouldn't, he wouldn't calm down. My dad was saying he was trying to get Brian to calm down, but no, nobody could get him to. And then he did start it becoming violent, which my dad told him if he doesn't cool down then he does have to call the cops. So the cops were called that night and then Brian was put in a 72 hour hold in the mental health facility. I can't think back all the way to that memory. I'm not sure exactly how that played out but, but when he got home he was on medications which he stopped taking.

[Interviewer]

And did they diagnose him during that hold?

[Kelly]

They had diagnosed him with bipolar at that point and I think even one doctor was talking about it like being from COVID So that's where we were at at that point. But a big thing is to somebody as an adult with mental illness, it's hard as you probably know, for them to stay on medications. Especially with Brian's disorder as he's not aware of it. And it's hard for him to know that he does have a disorder. So he doesn't know why he needs to be on medication. So that has been our biggest hardship with, with all of this is keeping him on medications. But that's what we started to notice in the beginning is that he just did not want to stay on them and Every time he was off the medications is when the psychosis would start happening again. And also I would say for this, as I had spoken with my mom recently, she would want people to know at this point where Brian was. Is the point where anyone dealing with a situation like this should try to get a HIPAA release form. Or I don't know how, like, if you can at this extent, but I'm not a professional or anything, so I'm not sure, like, how it exactly works, but what's it called? Power of attorney. Yeah. So like when you have a family member that is still coherent or isn't so far gone that they can make this decision with you to let you as a family member have information or availability to their information, that is when you should make it happen for them. So what she's trying to say is right away get this release form. But we did not do that. It was all so new to us, obviously. Like, there's no manual. There's nothing that tells you how to handle a situation like this. It all happened so fast and just so rapidly that in. During COVID it was the worst time because you couldn't go into the hospital with him. At this point, there was really no way to get information about Brian because he's an adult. So we didn't know exactly what was going on with him. But yes, when he came out of the hospital, he stopped taking his medication and then he went back to his psychosis. What his psychosis would look like would be accusations against anyone. Really. It was a lot against my dad. All these accusations that didn't make sense or were just very deep that kind of just broke our family apart right then and there because they were so. They were just so bad things that were very sexual. So we still don't know. We don't understand why. It's like a. I don't even know sexual psychosis where it's about being gay or like being paranoid that people are touching him or going to touch him or things along that line. But I don't want to get too much into it because I want to respect everyone's privacy. That was in this situation. But the accusations were just traumatizing. So at first, the accusations were against my dad, which was hard because we as a family had to determine if what Brian is saying is true or false. And we obviously didn't want to, like, say that he was wrong or it didn't happen. But we had never seen anything like this. Like, we never seen anything, any of these incidents occur. Anything that he was Saying to be true. It was just so, like, out of the ordinary. So then. And then, obviously, this just really hurt my dad. The accusations were so brutal that my dad, he just collapsed after this. He was. I had saw him break down because I did stand by my dad's side. My mom and my other brother were very on the fence like that. They don't. That they believe what Brian is saying to be true. And I. I could see that it was a delusion. So I was still on my dad's side and I heard my dad out, and I was just there for him. And also, my. My mom and dad have never gotten along and have a long history of not getting along. So I think it was easier for my mom to believe in these accusations as well and not saying anything against her, too. I think it's. It just.

[Interviewer]

That was just the dynamic.

[Kelly]

It was just the dynamic. Yeah. I mean, we never really had a functional family life. There was a lot of arguing in our childhood, too, between my mom and dad. So I think it was hard for her to not believe Brian, you know, as her child. But then we started seeing that Brian was accusing other people, not just my dad, of the same things. So even his best friend, Brian's best friend, he accused of touching him inappropriately. And then we had to think, is this true? It was not true. Like, it was very confusing to think about. But then it would be accusations against even the plumber that came over to their house to work on the bathroom. Brian said that the plumber was trying to look at him while he was getting dressed or anything. He was just paranoid of anything, like, sexual happening. So once we started hearing more and more of these accusations, we realized they were delusions and it wasn't just against my dad. So I think even my mom and my other brother started realizing, like, oh, okay, I don't think what he's saying is true. So even till this day, I will say I think maybe something did happen to Brian, maybe in childhood. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't want to, like, disprove him. I don't want to say he's wrong for what he's going through. I think maybe something did happen to him, but I think his delusions take over.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And he sees it in other people. He sees things in other people that didn't actually happen. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but that's. That's just my own belief. So, yeah, he thought everyone was gay and out to get him or attracted to him due to his grandiose thoughts. So with schizoaffective disorder or even bipolar, I think it is a common symptom to have grandiose beliefs. So he thinks that he is, like, the most attractive person in the world. And which I think he's. He's always been good looking, but, you know, he. He thinks very highly of himself in these moments.

[Interviewer]

Now, is there a difference between, what is it, schizoaffective and schizophrenic, or is that the same thing?

[Kelly]

So schizoaffective is basically bipolar and schizophrenia as one. So while Brian has delusions and I think even hallucinations, he also has manic depression, depressive episodes. So it's basically a combination.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

And I have also been just doing more research on it to know exactly how it works, But I think it's. It's common for people with his disorder to be looked up. Looked at as bipolar and separated from schizophrenia. But actually schizoaffective disorder is the combination. The combination. So you wouldn't really say he's bipolar in schizo. He's just schizoaffective.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So his delusions definitely persist. And until this day, he's never. He's never not delusional. He's always in a different reality.

[Interviewer]

And this is a daily thing.

[Kelly]

Yes. Okay. This is every day, even with the medication. But without the medication is where we see the manic depressive episodes.

[Interviewer]

So two questions.

[Kelly]

Let me. Let me think.

[Interviewer]

I forgot my one, because I had two at the same time. I lost the one. My other one was gonna be. So what is your relationship like now? Is it hard for you guys to maintain a relationship because of this?

[Kelly]

Yes, definitely. There is another reason why we don't have a relationship, and it's more because of my own trauma. Yeah. But it is extremely hard to have a relationship right now with him. Even right now, he. He's not. He's like, not in our reality. So having a conversation, things just don't really make sense. Yeah. You can't talk about, like, what's happening.

[Interviewer]

In your everyday life.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And is he living with your mom?

[Kelly]

He is living with my dad.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Kelly]

So.

[Interviewer]

And it's kind of. Is it kind of falling on your dad to, like, be like, make sure you're taking your medicine and.

[Kelly]

Yes, definitely. My mom is a big part in that, though, where she goes almost every day to my dad's house because they're about 15 minutes away from each other to make sure that he's taking his medication. So at this point, they are basically on board with making sure he's taking it. I remembered my other question. Oh, yes. So the.

[Interviewer]

With the medication. I know that you said that it helps with bipolar side of things.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Now with delusions, is that. Is that medicine supposed to help with that as well or. I know with like mental illness, it's a lot of trial and error with different medications. But do you think that there is a medication that will be able to help minimize those? To a degree. And he just has. You guys haven't like found it yet or what do you think?

[Kelly]

Yeah, I think that's a very good question. And I am not sure if they are supposed to minimize his delusions. And I do feel like that we haven't found the exact medication that would help. But another big part of it is the weed.

[Interviewer]

Right. And that is. I'm glad you came back to that. Because I don't think a lot of people realize how much that can either trigger or like. I feel like. What is the word? Like, make it worse.

[Kelly]

You know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

Like, kind of like make all of these things worse. I mean, I knew somebody that. I mean, I think that it was something similar with that. Cause I know he was diagnosed bipolar, but he also had these kind of delusions. And I think that it was another. It might have been like mushrooms or something. I can't remember now. So many years ago. But a drug kind of triggered it all and set it off. But then anytime he would smoke weed or even drink, it just made everything so much worse. It just like was spiral at that point. And it didn't matter if he was on medicine. It was just like. That kind of counteracted it in a way.

[Kelly]

Right? Yeah, I completely agree too. I think that. Well, I mean, also from doing research about it too. Weed should not be a part of it at all. That can greatly even cause the delusions from what I've read. Again, not a professional. So I don't know exactly how it all works, but my dad also thinks that the weed. Start starting weed is what caused the onset of his disorder, too. So, yeah, he really should not be smoking. But that's another part I'll get into as well. Why he carries on with it.

[Interviewer]

Well, it's hard too, because he's an adult. So it's like, you know, even with the power attorney thing, you know, it's like all of these things help to a degree, but it's like, how much can you really control an adult? You know? And it's like you can do your best as the family and the parent. But it's hard. Yes.

[Kelly]

That's the main thing, too, is he is an adult. So there's only so much that we can do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

To help him. That's been our hardest thing, is that we can't. We can't tell him what to do. We can't. So with the weed, because he lives with my dad, and because of the violence that my dad has been through with Brian and because of how Brian is triggered by my dad, I would say they don't have a good relationship, but they. My dad's not gonna kick him out, so they. He wouldn't have any other place to go. So he carries on living with my dad. And my dad does. What is the word? Enable Brian. And he's aware that he is enabling him, but he doesn't know how else to go about it. Because if Brian doesn't have his weed or the things that he needs like that, then we will see the negative behaviors come out.

[Interviewer]

And you pick and choose your battles.

[Kelly]

Exactly. So. So right now, my dad is doing Uber eats with Brian as Brian's job, and Brian can't work right now where he's at, but he Uber eats with my dad, and whatever money he makes, it ends up going to his addiction. So that's where we're at today. So, yes, my dad enables him, but it's very sensitive because you have to live with this person and there's like, no escape. So, I don't know, like you said, it's like picking and choosing the battles. We could all think about how we would do it differently, but you don't know until you're in the situation.

[Interviewer]

So now, do any of your other siblings have a relationship with him?

[Kelly]

My relationship. Older brother David. So the half brother. Yes, he has a relationship, and he's been a big help this past year, too, taking Brian out and doing fun things with him and engaging with him and giving him confidence and. Yeah, just being there for him as a brother and helping my parents out as well. Just giving them a break at times just because my dad's his forever caretaker and my mom is constantly making sure that Brian is okay. Yeah. So David and him have a relationship. My other brother Robert is an alcoholic, so I won't bring him up too much, but we don't have a relationship. No one has a relationship with him at the moment.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

So, yeah, it's. So that's where we're at today. But then going back to.

[Interviewer]

I have one more question.

[Kelly]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So and if you don't feel comfortable answering, tell me, do you think that there's a chance that Brian could be questioning his sexuality and maybe that's where some of the gay delusions come in?

[Kelly]

Absolutely. I think you.

[Interviewer]

Because that was like, the first thought that I had too, is like, maybe within himself, he's like, questioning these things and does. Might not even realize it, but, like, that could be maybe something like a reason why he might be saying, like, this person's looking at me or that. You know what I mean?

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And why it could be triggered towards men.

[Kelly]

Right. I. I have also had these same thoughts too. I think, yes, that's a big possibility. Brian has not been in a relationship. He's not had. I don't even know if he's had a kiss. I've never seen him with a girl, even in his high school days. And then my other brother is gay, so Robert. So before Brian, mental, before he became mentally ill, I think it was more so common for him to make fun of being gay with my dad because my. My dad, he was maybe a little homophobic. So I think Brian wanted to make my dad laugh and he would. He would go along with that. But, yeah, I've never seen him with a. A girl. It's a poss. It's a possibility. But there's other factors too, where he. So with his delusions, he goes back to the girls that we went to high school with, and he talks about them quite often, which also makes me uncomfortable because I don't want to play into that. I don't want to, like, think that. I don't want him to think that's, like, these girls are gonna, like, it's a possibility. But I. Yeah, sometimes I don't really know how to answer that because I. I don't really know why he's stuck on the. The girls from high school who are living their lives.

[Interviewer]

And I think, you know, it's just. I think that these mental illnesses, disorders, even though, you know, they're researched enough, where it's like, okay, you try these different medicines. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. I don't think that they. There's, like, enough information on why certain things happen, why things stick, and I don't even know if it's something that we're supposed to understand because it's like the brain, you know, is just so different, and it's being. It's wired so differently than, like, per se, someone's brain that doesn't have this illness. So it's like, it Might not even, there might not even be a reason why the, you know, he's stuck on those girls. It might just be how it is in his brain where it's like, you know, in some way maybe at that time, like even if at one point he like had a crush on one of them or was like, oh, she's pretty. And then it's like it just never went away. And it's. I think, you know, when these mental illnesses, you know, start up and they continue, it's like your brain is weird. You know, it can, like in general, even for somebody that doesn't have anything going on, it's like our brains are so misunderstood and we don't have enough research on them that it's like in his mind it might just, it might make sense to him is why he's stuck on certain people or certain things or certain delusions. And it's like, it's really unfortunate because it, you know, especially when you're living or trying to live your own life and progress in your life, it can get very draining. Trying to support and be there for someone, whether it's a relative or a friend or, you know, whatever the case may be, it's, it's feels impossible, I feel like at times because like you said, it's like, how can you really maintain any type of real relationship when you can't just like call someone up and be like, hey, how's your day? And it's just like that, you know, conversation.

[Kelly]

That's exactly how it feels too. It's like you can't. I don't know what I am supposed to say.

[Interviewer]

It's almost like you have to limit it for yourself and your own well being because it, it's hurtful for you too to like at the end of the day, that's your twin, like that's somebody that like you have a very different connection with. And it's. In many ways it's heartbreaking. And I feel like it's almost like at what point do you just say I can't do this today? You know what I mean? It's a lot.

[Kelly]

No, that's exactly it. Like, yeah, you're exactly right.

[Interviewer]

It's hard. It's like there's no right and wrong in it. It's kind of just like what feels right for you.

[Kelly]

Right? That's a big thing I had to learn too, is being selfish and living my own life and doing what makes me happy as well. But yeah, I think for Brian, he says the things that we all would keep to Ourselves. So I think we all have fantasies and imaginations. And like you said, it was probably something that he fantasized when he was in high school about maybe dating one of these girls. And now they just. They just come out. They. They're just things that he says out loud.

[Interviewer]

And too, if he hasn't really met anyone else, it's like, what other girls would there be for him to, like, focus on too, Right?

[Kelly]

Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I think a lot of this disorder is saying things that most people would keep to themselves and maybe not being able to see the difference between the reality and. I don't know if fantasy is the right word, but I'm just going to use that for right now because that's the only I can think of and compare it to as my. For. For my own self thinking about, like, fantasies that I've had. Yeah. So that's a lot of how his disorder seems to come out in. In work. And then also along the lines of the girls that were in high school, there was another time that Brian was telling me he did have a girlfriend, and it was a girl from our high school. And he was. He had this, like, whole elaborate story about how they were dating and how he was gonna go see her. And so, yeah, this was in the beginning of his psychosis. And again, that was. At first it was believable. It was like, oh, you guys are dating. Then I looked at her profile, and she has a whole boyfriend, and that's not Brian. I still. I didn't deny. I didn't deny it in front of Brian. I. I didn't say like, oh, that's not your girlfriend. But I just asked him, like, oh, well, like, who is. Who's that guy she's with? And he's like, oh, he's. He's nothing. He. I could. I. I'm better than him. You know, those grandiose beliefs. So with that specific girl, it got a little bit challenging because I want to protect Brian and I don't want, like, I do believe he was messaging her. When I think back to it, her and I did have a conversation that he did send her messages and her boyfriend did. See, So I don't want, you know, this boyfriend to be coming after Brian when he's not in his right mind. And it's not. It's not like, his. His fault. Yeah, he's. Yeah. So I did message her and let her know the situation and just that if he's messaging her, just please, like, have grace and maybe just ignore it. And, you know, I. I know it's. It's bothersome too, and it's. It can be a little strange. It's probably strange for her. And I understand that as a female, too, like you, there's a lot of creepy men. Okay. But I'm not saying Brian's creepy. I just think, like, I know this is.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Like, putting yourself in her shoes, it's like you could get, like, if she's not a family member, like, what's going on here? You know, Especially, too, if you. A lot of people don't understand mental illness. So it can be easy to be like, what is wrong with this person? You know, without knowing the background. And I think the best thing you can do is if, like, what you did, if you are aware of, you know, something that he's thinking or saying, just be like, hey, just letting you know. Like, you know what I mean? And that's all you really can do, right?

[Kelly]

Yeah, definitely. At that point and actually forever, I just want to protect him. So that was that situation. Nothing really happened from that. The girl was very kind, and she. She didn't say anything to Brian. I don't exactly know how he stopped thinking about her, but he was able to move on. He doesn't talk about her anymore, but he still, till this day, will bring up, like, girls from high school. Yeah. So. And also, I think it's like that want and need for a companion and never having one, which I don't think he's had. Like, that's heartbreaking for me to know. Like, I really want that for him, and I think he just wants it so bad. So he imagines it and then says that his reality.

[Interviewer]

In a way.

[Kelly]

Yes, that's his reality. And then, you know, like, being married and having found the love of my life, I'm like, I just want that so bad for him. I wish that. I wish that he can have this. Like, that's my biggest hope for him, too. I. I really hope that.

[Interviewer]

So is he currently seeing, like, a psychiatrist or a therapist or anything? Or he just.

[Kelly]

Yes. So he's an outpatient. Okay.

[Interviewer]

So he has, like, someone monitoring him.

[Kelly]

And yes, now he's at a good place where he's actually going there willingly. Yeah. And he's doing group therapy. He has a really good psychiatrist who speaks with my mom and gives her all the information, and she talks very kindly to Brian. And Brian's engaged with him, with her. So, yeah, he's. He's in a good spot right now.

[Interviewer]

And, you know, too, like, hopefully with time, you know, and maybe if there were Medicaid, other medications that came up that he could try, like, it's not to say that it wouldn't be manageable one day. Right. Or something where, like, maybe the delusions were less or, like, not as intense as they are. Or like, something where it gives him the opportunity to live. I hate the word normal, but, like, just a. More like. Guess that's the only word I can think to use, but just more of, like, a normal life for himself and, like, one that doesn't include all of the delusions.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know, and allows him to, like, hold a job and, you know, to find that companionship that he deserves.

[Kelly]

Exactly. And I think the biggest thing to help with that would be to stop smoking pot. I mean, I honestly do think that that's a big part of his delusions that trigger it. So if there's, like, any way we can get. Get him away from, that would be the start. Yeah, that's true. I do. I have looked up people on Tik Tok, too, who have the same disorder and are able to live a pretty functional life and are aware of their disorder.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

So I do wonder if he could live like that as well. And I'll be honest with some of the emotions that come with all of this. I mean, there's so many different ones, like, sadness and definitely frustration, where I would. Sometimes I think, like, is there a way for him to just see what's going on? Is he not trying? Is he. Does he not want to have a job? Does he have, like, no will in him to get through what he's going through? Like, sometimes I have anger in me that makes me ask those questions just because I want things to be fixed. And I don't know if I'll ever know if. If this could actually happen. But, yeah, I. I don't know if it's possible for him to see his disorder for. For what it is. But, yeah, there's definitely anger that comes along with all of this. That isn't the biggest emotion that I have, though. The biggest emotion I have for. For. For him is just sadness. When I see him, I'm just sad. Yeah. So. And then. I'm sorry, I keep going, no, you're totally fine. Backwards. But so living with my dad. Brian. Living with my dad. And by the way, during all this, I'm living with my husband, so. Well, as. As his girlfriend. Not married yet, but so living with my dad, things got so intense that my dad put him in a hotel because of his violent behavior. So while he was in the hotel. This was probably the worst he was at during his psychosis. He just was all over the place. He couldn't have a. We couldn't have a conversation with him. He had so many grandiose beliefs, and he was making so many accusations, we couldn't really talk him out of it. So my dad put him up in a hotel, but at the same time, with the bipolar side of it, he was having suicidal ideations. So that. That is just always a fear in the back of our heads, too. So my husband and I had taken Brian out different places, one of them being Trader Joe's, just to do some typical activities. And while at Trader Joe's, Brian saw some cops. So at this point, Brian had been dealing with cops for a good amount, just because of all of the phone calls to the police when Brian would become violent. So Brian, in his psychosis state, just had this trigger whenever he saw cops, and he started calling them pigs, like, out loud and screaming. Screaming it towards them. And so my husband and I. Well, first of all, we keep to ourselves. We do not like, you're not going.

[Interviewer]

And screaming at cops.

[Kelly]

No, we do not like being known. We just like to go places and do our grocery store. Yeah. So when he did this, Mike, my husband, was, like, telling Brian, you need to stop, you know, because, like, the whole time before, we're accommodating to him, we're kind of walking on eggshells, just taking it how it was. But when he's out of control like that, Mike did step in and say, you. You need to stop it.

[Interviewer]

You.

[Kelly]

You need to stop saying that. You will be arrested. And Brian then started going off on Mike, too, and cursing at him and calling him different names. Like, get. He was accusing Mike of different things, too, Accusing Mike of being gay. So. And I laughed just because, like, I can laugh now, but in the time it was. It was not funny. It was just, like, pretty crazy, pretty insane. And Brian said that he was gonna go walk off and walk home, and I had to step in and say, like, you are not going anywhere. We got him back in the car. I had to. I many times had to be the one to talk Brian down because Brian did see me as the person he wanted to talk to through most of this. And Brian didn't really, like, while in his psychosis, he didn't know who we were. He would think of us, I don't even know, as different characters, but he definitely didn't see my parents as his parents. He, like, he would even call my mom Grandma, which is, like, kind of funny, but I guess he really thought, I don't even know that maybe that's who she was. And he thought of me as an angel, is how he would say it at times. And so when I would talk to him, he would usually calm down. But, yeah, that was one of our greatest moments with him. And. But it just is just showing that he was kind of coming at everybody, you know, just innocent bystanders at this point. But Brian would have a lot of outbursts like that in public. So also someone who has social anxiety, like me, it's. It's just very hard to be around somebody when they're like that. It's hard to want to have a relationship because I don't want to go into public. And you don't want to be put in the situation. Yeah, I don't want to be in that situation.

[Interviewer]

And it's like, you know, to what level do you sacrifice your own mental health and the things that feel good to you?

[Kelly]

Right. Because walking on eggshells is. It's just a lot of anxiety and holding your breath in and. And kind of waiting for the moment to be over. And that's every time I had been with Brian, because especially in the beginning, there were always outbursts. So that would even look like singing or screaming in, like, the mall or wherever we would go, and then everybody looking at us. So that's how it looked in the beginning. So he was in and out of the mental facility, and when he was in there, he would not allow my mom or dad to contact him. He wouldn't say anything to them because, again, he didn't think that they were his parents, and he just was triggered by them. But he would allow me to call or he would call me while he was in there. And some days he would call while I was at work, and I would have to take time to talk to him and. And it was just heartbreaking because he would call, asking when he's going to be able to come home, and there's no answer that I have for him, just whenever he gets better, really, whenever he is able to recognize the things that have happened. So it definitely made my mental health deplete. And I could feel it. It was weighing heavy because it was just so sad. It was just the saddest thing ever to hear somebody that you love say, like, when. When do I get to come home? So. But yeah, when. When he would come home, things were okay for a bit, but because he was medicated. But then he'd stop taking his medication and then enter psychosis again. So it was just continue to continuous cycle.

[Interviewer]

And two, probably when he was staying at these places, he didn't have access to weed and stuff, Right?

[Kelly]

Yeah. So he started to look better and we would think like, things are getting to be good again. And then it would just. It would always go back to not good. And then also for Brian's psychosis, he. He started to believe that he was like a famous rock singer and there is a spirit specific one that he would call himself. I'm trying to think of the name Jeff Buckley. Jeff Buckley? Yeah. For some reason it's Jeff Buckley. I don't know if you know him, but he was this rock star I think maybe in the 60s or 70s, and Brian is just really into him. But before all of this began, like in high school days, we didn't know about Jeff Buckley. Like there was. This is just very random. But yeah, now it's everywhere. That's all that Brian can talk about, is Jeff Buckley. So he either thinks that he's Jeff Buckley. Jeff Buckley is his dad. He knows Jeff Buckley. Or. I don't know. Yeah. Or he's just always talking about Jeff Buckley. Like sometimes he knows that Jeff Buckley is now deceased and not in his life, but sometimes Jeff Buckley is in his life and he sings like him. Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of hard to explain. But so, yeah, he also thinks that I'm not his sister. And then that's where I'll jump into the trauma that I have with him. So when Brian came back from the hospital, my mom and I had invited him over to her house so he could talk about his what. What was going on. And like, anything that he wanted to say, like from the hospital, just let him vent, really. So. So we were all at my mom's house, and then my mom had to go to work or somewhere, and I told Brian that I would stay with him and talk to him for a little bit longer because I didn't want to leave him. Hey, it's Brooklyn Adams and I'm partnering with Abercrombie to tell you about the newest drop from their Active brand. Your personal best YPB leggings are made with buttery soft fabrics that hug you in all the right places. And come in. Abercrombie's viral curve love fit. Designed to eliminate waist gap. Paired with sports bras and super soft sweatshirts, it's activewear that supports every part of my busy lifestyle and gives me my best butt ever. Head into the new Year feeling your personal best shop active by Abercrombie in the app online and in stores alone. But I did have this eerie feeling right away. Like, I knew Brian wasn't in his right mind still. He was still saying things that just didn't make sense. So when my mom left, I instantly felt uncomfortable with Brian. So Brian was sitting on one couch and I was sitting on the other. And then he was just staring at me. And then he leaped over to the couch that I was on and started to open his legs. And I, like. I just remember, like, feeling like my whole body just left or my whole soul just, like, left my body. Like. Like, what is going on? So I quickly got up and I ran to the bathroom and I locked myself in there. I didn't know what he was thinking, like, what this was, what this meant, but I just knew it was totally wrong and, like, I needed to get out of there. So I called my husband and I had a panic attack and I had him come pick me up. And I. Brian came up to the bathroom door and was asking, like, what's. What's wrong? What did I do? And I. I didn't even know what to tell him. I was like, I'll be one minute. I just have to use the bathroom. And once he got there, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go now. And I just, like, sprinted out the door. And I felt a bit guilty because he looked like he really didn't know, like, what he did wrong. And I just had never seen him like that before. And I didn't know, like, what he's capable of during psychosis. So I just knew I had to go. And.

[Interviewer]

Well, here's the thing, you know, family or not, when you have a gut feeling, you gotta trust it.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I can't think of any situation where someone leaping at you is a safe thing.

[Kelly]

You know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

So it's like you had a feeling, you trusted it. Who knows what was going through his head? But, you know, even at points, if you said, like, he doesn't always know or think you're his sister, you don't.

[Kelly]

You don't.

[Interviewer]

You don't owe anyone, you know, your own safety and comfort, and you did what you had to do, you know? So it's like, yeah, of course. Being like a sympathetic, nice person and that, being your brother and knowing he's not in his right mind, you're going to feel guilt to some degree. But, like, you did the right thing for yourself.

[Kelly]

Right? Definitely. I agree. Also because he did expose himself to my mom, I don't know if it was like the same day or a couple days prior. So that was just him pulling down his pants in front of her for no reason. And my mom was extremely uncomfortable. And so these situations occurred not too long after another. And we knew it was time to go back to. Barnabas is the mental health facility that he would go back and forth to.

[Interviewer]

And it is interesting how a lot of the delusions are like this hyper sexual.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Stuff.

[Kelly]

Yeah, we, we talk about that and we don't know why at all. This wasn't anything that he was prior to. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I'm sure it just depends on like the person and what they, what their delusions are. Like you said. I think for some people it might just be like the constant worry that someone's following them or like the paranoia in that sense. It's like it probably just varies so much.

[Kelly]

It does. It's definitely on a spectrum. But so after that situation, I had to be the one to call Barnabas and have him go back. And that looks like the police coming and also the social worker coming to. To take him. Really?

[Interviewer]

And since your mom has power of attorney, that's why you guys are able to make that choice for him, basically, Right? Is that how it works?

[Kelly]

So we don't at this point, we didn't have power of attorney yet, but no, you can call like if, if you are in a mental health crisis, you can call. We called a hotline at first and then they directed us to Barnabas. And if it's a situation like ours to where he's also been back and forth to, to Barnabas, they will come and put him in 72 hour hold. So he does. He didn't need power of attorney for that. And I hope I'm explaining it exactly correct. The cops would come and evaluate Brian with the social worker to determine if he needed to go to mental health facility. So yeah. And then me having to make that call was extremely difficult. It was so hard and heartbreaking because I would see him, I would see him being taken and him ask him why, why do I have to go? It's like one of the worst things you can ever imagine having to do to your family member. So anyone who's been through that, I completely understand also. So While in the 72 hour hold, it's hard to get long term care because he would have to sign off for it and he would have to be the one to say that he's wanting to have that care. But he wasn't at the point that he wanted to make that decision. He wanted to get out of there as fast as he could. So we were just in this cycle of him not wanting to be looked at longer and get the proper help that he needed.

[Interviewer]

Temporary.

[Kelly]

It was temporary, yes. Another thing. Brian's best friend noticed that things like he had not talked to Brian in so long, so he ended up messaging me to see what's going on with Brian. So I had been in contact with him for a bit, so it just. It just shows too. Like, people from his. His life previously also did reach out to see what's going on with him, but Brian. But that friend is somebody who Brian accused of touching him. So. And I never told his friend that. I. I didn't want him to know that that's what. How. How Brian sees him now. But Brian doesn't have friends now. He doesn't go out to hang out with anybody. I don't. I don't think he would be able to without having delusions.

[Interviewer]

So.

[Kelly]

But it was also nice to see that his friends do care so much about him and were willing to have Brian a part of their lives, even with the state that he's in. And then we go into our next situation where Brian appeared to be okay for a bit and. And he. My dad got him a new car. So my. My dad is an enabler.

[Interviewer]

He.

[Kelly]

But I think he just. He just does whatever he thinks is best in the moment. And he's doing the best he can. He's doing what he thinks is right. And he. He's just trying to. You know, he's handling the situation the best he can. So Brian was driving one day, and we didn't realize he was in psychosis at this point. And he didn't believe he had to stop at a. So he went right through it. A cop pulled him over, and Brian starts walking away from the cop. So Brian gets arrested. While in jail, he became aggressive with a cop. I don't know exactly what happened, but the cop did hit him in the head or he. I don't know if Brian, like, fell and hit his head. It's hard to know exactly what happened, but he was. He cracked his head open while there and had to get stitches. And then Brian ended up having to stay in jail for about two weeks. And during that time, I, again, was the only one Brian was contacting until I think he stopped contacting me. And instead his cellmate. I think it was his cellmate or someone he was in jail with, started calling me and introduced himself. But Also said that he's in jail with Brian and he, he could see that there's something wrong with Brian and he just wanted to inform me that he was going to look out for Brian, which that was like. That was just incredible. I'm really happy that that guy did that. I mean, as you can imagine. No, nobody's going to be looking out for Brian, really. So. So I stayed in contact with this guy over the two weeks and just to keep tabs on Brian and see how he's. He was doing. But Brian tells us now how bad it was in jail, but it's hard to distinguish what things happened to him and what didn't. But he's extremely upset with the police and. Yeah. So as for, as for me, how I experienced that time, it was just so sad to be getting calls from this random person to tell me how my brother was doing. And also a little creepy because he didn't want to just talk about Brian. He talked about like other things and then wanted to get more personal. So I had to stop talking to that guy. But yeah, Brian ended up coming out of jail and when he did, he showed me his, his head and it was all stitched up and it was just, it was the saddest thing to see because it was, it was a pretty big. It was a pretty big gash. Yeah. So for me, that was one of the saddest times because we couldn't be there to protect him. And it's one of the things that I think could be better worked on. And I, I totally commend police officers. I respect what they do and I think they're amazing. I just think that there could be better training on mental health.

[Interviewer]

I think too. That was like my first thought as well is like having him in an environment like that for two weeks, that's like, like, you know, obviously the situation, it's like, okay, like he, you know, was a. He's treated like a normal citizen would. Like, he gets consequences. But it's like there should be something where it's like, okay, there's a mental illness thing involved in this. Let's transfer him somewhere where he can get help in the two weeks versus just like stuck in this place that is going to probably cause more damage than anything else.

[Kelly]

Right, Exactly. I don't know how that works. I don't know how they kept him there for that long.

[Interviewer]

And was this more recent or was this.

[Kelly]

This was in, I think, 2022. Okay, so someone being in jail that is mentally ill, it's just, it's it's sad. And I hope that there could be better training on how to deal with somebody with mental illness, because he, of course, was not in his right mind, and it's not fair that he got hurt. I mean, it's so sad to me that he. His poor little head was hit and we couldn't protect him. Yeah. I just think there should be better training to know how to spot somebody who is not mentally well and maybe separate than, like you said, should not have been in there for two weeks. Yeah. So after he got out of jail, it's a lot on my dad because he had to pay for Brian's lawyers and also to get his records expunged after that, which he did. So I think he has, like, a clean slate now. But it was a long process after that. And then also, I believe after that situation is when I really watched my parents both shut down. My. My dad was just a complete wreck from all the accusations. So he kind of at one point wanted to not want, handle things anymore. He just. I think he just needed a break. And then my mom. My mom is like the strongest woman I've ever known. She can handle anything. But I saw her break down as well, where she just. I. I think she was, like, in bed all day, and I saw part of depression for her that I've never seen before. And so at this point, my other brother is also in Florida, so I felt pretty alone. I felt like I had to be the one to stay strong and hold it together. Hold it together, handle the situation. So I joined a support group called nami. And NAMI handles people dealing with mental illness. So even if you are somebody with that is mentally ill, you could also join the support group. But I joined the one about families dealing with mentally ill family members. And I think that's a great resource to. To join for anybody going through the same thing too. I joined a couple of their sessions, and I got to hear other people's experiences, which was pretty similar to mine. I do think I was the youngest one on there and the only one dealing with a sibling. The other ones were older people with children with mental illness. But at the same time, we could all relate. There was one session, though, where there was a girl my age on there, and she was dealing with her mom having mental illness, and she broke down. And then I just started breaking down too, because you. It was a zoom call, and you could see how each person was. Each person's emotions on there. So, yeah, when she started breaking down, I started breaking down because you can.

[Interviewer]

Relate to the feeling, Right?

[Kelly]

Yes, That's. That's exactly what happened. And, like, I don't typically cry in front of other people, but that one got me. I was just like.

[Interviewer]

And I think that that shows, too, how important support groups can be.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

I feel like for a lot of people, they might be hesitant to join things and be like, you know, people have so many different thoughts, like, I don't need it that much, or like, they might think, oh, these people won't really understand, like, if our stories aren't exactly the same.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

But it does go to show that it can be a good feeling to just feel heard and understood, even if your, you know, experience is a little different. You guys share those similar emotions and frustrations and confusions even.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I feel like it's. It can really make you feel like you're not so alone in a situation.

[Kelly]

No, exactly. It did feel like that for a bit. And then I had my parents join, too, which they were reluctant to do at first, but they came on the zoom calls with me for a little bit, and then we got resources there, because at least at the time this happened for us, there wasn't much out there that helped with our situation that told us, like, how to handle this. And even, like, TikTok now is something that I will go to. To look at other people's stories.

[Interviewer]

It's more personal because I think that when you Google something or when you look something up, it's so general, like, and everyone's situation is so different.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it's like, to be able to go to multiple different resources and kind of pick and choose, like, okay, maybe this could work, or maybe this is something that we can relate more to in our situation. I think that that makes it, like, very helpful.

[Kelly]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, with support groups, you also get resources, which is a great thing. One of the resources was a family caregiver alliance that helps with care planning. So that's something that my dad and I did together. We went to one meeting, because during this time, I think I was. I. I was just. I was starting to live my own life, and I think that's when I started my. My job as a behavioral therapist. So I had a lot of things going on, and I couldn't be there all the time, but I wanted to push my dad in the right direction so he could live with Brian. I think he's, like, the most important we have to important person. We have to figure out how to accommodate. So I went with him there, and it Seemed pretty positive. It seemed like something that was going to help. The only thing is my dad didn't follow through with it. And that's something that is frustrating for me. I don't. Like, you can't help somebody who doesn't want the help. And I don't think he. He'll. He. He want. My dad wants to vent, but he doesn't want to take the help, if that makes sense.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

So, yeah. My dad also doesn't go to therapy or really do much to help his own mental state. So while these were both great resources, it. It just didn't work out for my parents. And as for me, I stopped going to the support group for. For my own situation. I was becoming more depressed talking about it. Like, it's always great to let it out, but I am. I have realized I'm better at doing that with like, my husband or somebody close to me than I am sharing it.

[Interviewer]

Even though sometimes sharing something over and over again, it is like beating a dead horse, you know, and it's kind of like every time you bring it up, you're bringing back up all of those emotions. Yeah. Which keeps you stuck in the emotions.

[Kelly]

That's exactly what it was like. It was like you. I just have to keep bringing it back up. I don't want to.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Kelly]

I'm trying to forget this. Even with therapy. I did do therapy for a bit. I just on and off throughout this time. And as everyone knows, it's like, it's hard to find a good therapist that you want to stick with. So. And then like you're saying each. Each time I had to explain and re. Explain the situation. So for me, it just. It didn't work out. But I strongly do advise to do therapy at the same time. But I am also, like, pretty. Pretty good with like, experiencing my emotions and letting myself feel what needs to be felt. Plus I also have like, a good support system. So, yeah, I. I feel like processing. It has been good for the most part. While I was kind of keeping it together for everybody, I. I did start to fall apart. And that's why I, I joined therapy. But my. My own mental health was depleting. So my other brother came back from Florida and let my parents know that, like, I can't be the only one handling all of this. So they. They both, once they heard that, they were like, oh, my gosh, yeah, we. We need to get it together. So they both work together, which is extremely difficult for them. They are two very different people. But they did work together and just Having communication and getting Brian back to where he needed to be, which really involved the medication. Just staying on top of the medication. That was. That's the most important thing. After they were able to work together, then my Brian ended up with the diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder. So for a while, we just had the diagnosis of bipolar, but now it's schizoaffective disorder. And.

[Interviewer]

And when did they diagnose him with that?

[Kelly]

It was either 2021 or 2022. Okay. Yeah, one of those years. And during it must have been 2021, because that's when my husband and I. Well, then boyfriend, we moved to Pennsylvania. And for me, that was also a chance to get away from everything and just focus on myself. So. But with that, I also realized how much this did. This did take a toll on me. I was not my best self at that point. I was not a ray of sunshine. So living with my husband, I was. I was not always the nicest. I was just in and out of depression. And I struggled to even find a job in pa, Too, because I just didn't have that motivation. I think a lot of it came from the trauma endured. I also realized I wasn't telling at this point. I wasn't telling my friends or close friends about the situation. I. Even. So, one of the days, at one point, my. My best friend came into town. She lives in North Carolina, and she wanted to hang out and say hi to us. I'm actually going back to when we worked at the Christmas tree, because I just thought of this. But she. She asked to hang out, and I. I told her, oh, no, I'm. I'm going to sleep or something. Like, I'm. I'm not feeling good. And then she ended up going to the Christmas tree where my mom was working, and she. She told my mom, like, oh, I hope Kelly's feeling better. And my mom was like, oh, Kelly's fine. She's not. She. She's at home. She's not sick. And so my best friend was like, oh, like, that's like. Because I don't. I don't lie because I'm really bad at it. But that's, like the one time I did. And of course I got caught, like, right away. And so she. It caused a fight between her. I wouldn't say fight. Like, an argument between her and I. And I didn't realize at that point I was, like, the most depressed I was. And I just didn't want to do anything or see anybody or talk to anybody because I didn't want any questions being asked. I didn't want to have to let it all out. So I just avoided people, including her. And now I see that I could have just told her, like, what was going on, and she would have been 100% on board with it and supportive. But it's like, it's really weird, too. And being younger, I just didn't think I should put that burden on anybody else. Like, what I was going through. And I didn't want people to feel bad for me, but also with the stigma around it, I just. I didn't think he was good to talk about. I thought it was just something too personal, something that should stay in the family. But now I see it completely different.

[Interviewer]

Where.

[Kelly]

It'S something that should be talked about and more people should have awareness of mental illness because it's so prevalent and people are dealing with it everywhere. I just happen to be the one in my. In my little bubble, I guess you could say that. Is going through it. Like, my friends don't have a relative in the same situation. Like, people I know close to me aren't in the same exact situation. But I know so many people know what I'm talking about and what I'm going through. So that's, like, a big reason why I thought. It's good to share on your platform, too. Absolutely. While in pa, my husband got an opportunity to move with his job, and we could have moved to North Carolina, Virginia, different places along the east coast. And one of them being back to Jersey. And I chose to go back to Jersey. You know, I pushed for that because I wanted to help with my family. I didn't want to leave them. And with everything going on, so we moved back to Jersey. And that's one thing I will say, too, is that I've learned to definitely do things for yourself and not make these big decisions based on other people. Because now I see that, like, I would definitely not want to be in New Jersey if I had a choice. We would love to live in North Carolina. So to think that we had that opportunity, passed it up to come back to Jersey is, like, wild. But at the moment, I did because of Brian's situation. So absolutely not blaming him. I'm just saying that that's where I was at. I just felt like I couldn't do anything because of what was going on. So now we're all back in Jersey and where we are at today. So recently my parents got Brian to sign the. I think it's a HIPAA release form to have access to his information. So we're. We're at a good point where we can at least help him in that sense. And he is stable to where he does have delusions always. So he's not in our reality, but he doesn't have as many, like, manic episodes. He still does have depression and suicidal ideations, but we have learned how to deal with those. And a big thing is that I would say for every. Anybody to know when dealing with somebody going through delusions, to not go against it, not to try to disprove what they're saying, but rather acknowledge it and try to move on to the next thing. Like. Like Brian saying that he's Jeff Buckley. Like, okay, like, how I usually go about is I just tell him, okay, cool. Like, so have you seen a good movie lately? Like, so you. You're not. You're not necessarily saying that it's the truth, but you're not fighting it because that's his reality. So I think to him it's like saying the sky is green when obviously it's blue. You don't want to. I mean, his. His reality is that the sky is green and not blue.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

So, yeah, that's basically how we are managing it now, which for me has been fine to deal with because I'm at a distance. I'm about an hour away from Brian, so I don't see him that much. I don't have a whole relationship with him. My dad is the one that lives with him. So I'll go into the effects of how it has been for my dad. So, yeah, my dad has definitely dealt with this the heaviest, especially being his caregiver. Now, my dad, too, has mental health issues that are not addressed, but we could see he's going through. And that that significantly showed for the past year where he decided not to have a relationship with me. So for the past year, he had not talked to me. And he made that decision, which I know now due to a situation prior, which was for the longest time when all this started happening, I was like his therapist, because he doesn't go to actual therapy. And I would just listen to him vent and be the person to support him. But that definitely took a toll on me. And one day when I was living my own life and I was having opportunities and I wanted to share those with him, and I was. I wanted to tell him about, like, new job, a new job that I had, or a new client that I was seeing, just things that were happening in my personal life. I went to call him and he Right away, started talking about Brian. And I had realized I don't have a relationship with him. It's more of like a. A therapist, really. So I. I just had a conversation that I don't want to. I don't want to be a therapist. I want to be your daughter. But I. I want to have a relationship and talk and be able to see you and talk about other things, but I. I just can't be the one that you talk to like this all the time. And I did suggest therapy for him. So after that conversation is when he decided he didn't want to have a relationship with me anymore. He took my conversation as that I was a. That he was a burden on me and that he was affecting me mentally. So he just didn't want to hurt me like that anymore is how he explains it. But the way he went about it was very difficult because he did not explain that to me at first. So at first it just looked like not talking to me at all, not giving me a reason. So months would go by and I wouldn't hear from him. Even when I tried to reach out to him, I wouldn't get. He wouldn't pick up the phone or I wouldn't get a text back. And I just thought he needed some time. So after a few months or a couple months go by, I reach out to him. And he. He had told me that he. I forget what he said first, but at. At one point when I called him, I was. I was just asking him why he had not been talking to me or why he doesn't want me in his life. And he just says, I, I don't want a relationship with you right now. And then during that conversation, I realized that I was fighting for somebody who wasn't fighting for me, too. So I had to come to terms with that. And that was like, the biggest heartbreak of my life so far. Because I never in a million years would have thought he would have not wanted to have a relationship with me, because growing up, we were so close. So my heart just shattered after that. And I didn't think that. Yeah, I just didn't think that he could ever do that to me. So I had to imagine a world without him. I had to realize he didn't want to be in my life. So during the time that we did not talk, I started. My mind started to wander. I thought, like, there had to be a better explanation for why he can't have a relationship with me. I mean, all I did was tell him that I didn't want to be his therapist. So I started thinking, maybe there is truth to. Behind. Behind what Brian's delusions are. Maybe, like, something did actually happen. Maybe that's why he's triggered so much by my dad. But I didn't want my mind to wander there, so I started just repressing it and suppressing it and just putting it in the back of my mind. So for about a whole year, I didn't have a relationship with my dad. And then my wedding was about to happen just this past March, and I started thinking about him not walking me down the aisle. And I. That just crushed me so much. I thought, like, for the longest time, I thought, like, okay, I'm. I'm all right. Like, I can have a really. I. I don't need a relationship with him. It's fine. But when it came down to the wedding, I was like, there has to be, like, this can't keep happening. This has to be figured out. So I reached out to my dad and asked him, like, if we can just get together and talk about all this, which he agreed to. And that's when he told me the reason why he stopped talking to me was because of that conversation. He just. He thinks he's a burden in my life, which he still does think he is. But we at least have a relationship with now. It's never going to be the same, but we just have boundaries now where if he's going through a rough time with Brian, he won't call me, but if things are okay, he will call me. So that's. That's kind of where we are right now. And then the effects on my mom's mental health is she. She doesn't talk about it as much, too. She's. She's also not one to always show her emotions, but she just keeps it moving. She. I can see that she's sad in ways because she already lost one son. So it does feel like Brian is another loss, because it is like dealing with a death. We had to say goodbye to his past self and learn his new self, but she's actually thriving at the moment. She's on a pickleball team, and she's. Yeah, she's doing well. She has, like, so many friends that she hangs out with in her retirement community, so she's doing good. She checks up on Brian each day just to make sure that he's taking his doses. And she explains to me that she will never let him go backwards. She just wants to see him move forward. So her and my dad just try to get along. As best as they can to make it all work out for Brian. At the same time, it is always a conversation about Brian. So whatever phone call we have is something to do with Brian, too. She does, you know, talk about other things, but it always goes back to Brian. And then the effects on me is a lot of anxiety and depression, Especially when this first started to happen. I had dreams of saving Brian every single night. It would always be a dream about Brian and me having to protect him or save him. And a lot of times he would end up being like a baby in the dream or my little brother. But yeah, I always had to save him. And I think it just goes to show that that's how I feel in reality, too. I just want to make things better and protect him. But at the same time, I know I can't fix. And I can't fix this.

[Interviewer]

And you can't stop your own life.

[Kelly]

Yeah, right.

[Interviewer]

And I think your mom is a good example of that, is like, she is thriving and she's living her life, but she still does what she has to do as a mom and, like, check in on him every day and, you know, that's all. You can only do as much as you can do.

[Kelly]

Yes, exactly. And that's what I'm learning now. Definitely at the beginning, it was hard to let that go. So I don't have much of a relationship right now with Brian. I see him on occasions like Christmas and holidays, but it's hard to have a relationship because of the trauma I endured from our previous incident. Because I don't know how Brian sees me. I still don't. I don't know exactly if he realizes I'm his sister.

[Interviewer]

So you guys don't even really have phone conversations?

[Kelly]

No. He also does not answer text or calls, so he doesn't reach out or anything. At this point, he's at. I don't even know how to explain it where he doesn't. He doesn't really know how to converse with people. I could see where he's. His thoughts are very unorganized. He doesn't know how to. He doesn't really, like, know how to talk to people. So even for holidays that we all get together, that's. That's when we see Brian. Like, Christmas looks like we get gifts for Brian, which I love. I love gift giving, so I love giving him gifts and anyone else, but we'll never receive a gift and we accept that. And that's. You know, we're not trying to get gifts here from him, but it just looks like him receiving but not giving back. So it is also a one way relationship that I would have to be pursuing. And I'm at a point right now where I am not interested. I just want to focus on my own life, like you were saying too, because I am extremely happy with my separate life. There's just a lot of big things going on for, for my husband and I, and it's just been hard to do that without feeling guilt too, because I feel like I should be trying harder for a relationship with him and trying to make him happy and do things for him. But it's just. It's just not possible right now with all that's going on in my own life. So. So I see him when I can. And the times that we do, like at holidays is also uncomfortable because he will. He sings. His favorite thing is singing. And I think that's how he lets it all out and he. How he copes with things. But he will sing all day, like, and that's not an exaggeration, literally all day, like, but to the top of his lungs where it's. It is bothersome. I mean, I don't think anyone wants to hear that all day, you know, but we don't really know how to tell him not to. So when he comes over, a lot of times we host gatherings at our house for holidays. And when he does come over and starts to sing, we do have to tell him to stop because we don't want to upset neighbors. And that has definitely been a situation. Like at my dad's house just this past week, he was singing to the top of his lungs, I guess, and the neighbor called the cops on him. But because the cops have been there so many times, they have updated my neighbors on the situation and so they know about Brian. And apparently he wasn't singing that loud, but they still called the cops on him as a noise complaint. And I don't want that happening at our house too. So it's just uncomfortable when we get together because we have to always deal with.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And you already have like anxious feelings. Yeah, that's just gonna be something that adds to it.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And there's nothing. I think that's another good reason of you sharing your story. Not only for, you know, your personal experience, but to show people that, you know, it's normal to feel guilty. But yeah, it's okay to let that go, right?

[Kelly]

Yes. And to be up upfront with those feelings too. Like, it's okay that we're not always feeling happy when he's around or like, that we do have these feelings of, like, sadness, but also anger and frustration. Like, why. Why do you have to sing, like, all the time? Or we invited our friends over for the first time, including our. My side of the family, and. And that included Brian, because we always want to try to include him, but when he's there, he is singing in front of everybody, or he's saying he's talking to himself or having conversations that don't make sense.

[Interviewer]

So it just makes it hard.

[Kelly]

It just makes it hard. And we're. We have to explain to people what's going on. It's just such a conflicting thing because you want to be like, it doesn't matter what people think. But at the same time, when you are somebody with social anxiety and just like, I'm just super aware of everybody and how they're feeling. I don't want to make other people uncomfortable. So it's. It's just hard to have him there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So. But I love him, and I. I want to see him happy. I want him to enjoy himself. Right now, I think we're just trying to figure out a balance that we can all. That can accommodate all of us, including him. Yes, definitely. So I hope to have a relationship when we can figure that all out. Oh, I also. I also should say that, like, along the way, I was diagnosed with panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and ocd. So that tells me why all those things were happening from my childhood. And.

[Interviewer]

And also, too, probably. Probably why you were feeling some of the ways that you were feeling kind of throughout his diagnosis as well.

[Kelly]

Yes, definitely. When I was in my support group, another lady was telling me that she's also highly anxious, and while going through her own mental health and dealing with her family member, it's been extremely difficult. It's like, it's almost impossible at times to manage both. So as. As of now, for me, I. I'm also medicated, so I feel like medication does help for a lot of people. That was definitely the root for me. It's where. It's where I'm able to even come here and talk about all of this.

[Interviewer]

You should be very proud of yourself.

[Kelly]

Thanks.

[Interviewer]

It takes a lot of strength and vulnerability to be able to do that. It's not easy.

[Kelly]

Yeah, it was. It's definitely a lot. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But I think that it's. It's good to be able to get everything out in one place and to be able to start kind of from your beginning into where you are now. I think, in a way, it's very therapeutic. To be able to do that without it having to be, like, analyzed in, like, a therapy setting, it allows you to do it in whatever way makes the most sense for you.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Interviewer]

You know, to, like, just express it.

[Kelly]

Yeah, that's. That's how I feel. Like expressing does actually feel good to open up about it and just spread the awareness, too.

[Interviewer]

Right. And I think it goes to show, too.

[Kelly]

It's.

[Interviewer]

It's not a topic that you even. Like you said, like, none of us are professionals, even the people that are going through it, but it allows people to kind of understand different perspectives and be able to relate to just different things that you felt and experienced. And at the end of the day, I feel like through these similar experiences and similar emotions, that's kind of what helps us understand things a little bit better. And then, you know, ultimately, I feel like, to a degree, leads to more research being done and a better understanding and figuring out a balance for ourselves and our families and, you know, the person that we know that's going through these, you know, disorders or illnesses as well.

[Kelly]

Exactly. Yes.

[Interviewer]

And it can be a very taboo subject for people. You know, people don't. You know, whether it's the older generation who just doesn't get it, or if people don't know how to talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable, I think that's what makes it even more important to discuss it for sure.

[Kelly]

Right. And you'll actually find that people are receptive to it, too, and not gonna just judge right away. And there's. I mean, for me, too, it's like nobody's judging the situation. They're just empathetic. At least the people I've told. And I realize now there's no reason to feel ashamed or guilt about it. This is just what's happening. It's just the cards we were dealt with. Anyone could have been dealt these cards. I mean, this happened to Brian, who was a. It was, like, least likely to have this diagnosis where he was playing all these Sports. He was Mr. Cool in high school. He was. He didn't seem to have any anxiety or fears, but it happened to him. And what I would want to spread awareness for is that somebody with a disorder like Brian's, it doesn't make them a monster. It doesn't make them less of a person. It's something that he struggles with. And I think people could look at somebody like Brian as somebody who's struggling rather than someone to be fearful of. I did want to think. I did think of a scenario that might happen to people where they would be fearful of somebody. Somebody with Brian's disorder, like, maybe even taking an Uber. And if your Uber driver is talking to himself, you might. You might be scared. You might be thinking like, oh, my God, he's gonna kill me. And I don't blame anyone for thinking like that, too. I would be. I would probably be thinking the same thing because of how media portrays somebody with schizoaffective or schizophrenia. But I. I would hope people could refer back to this video if they see it and think, like, that's somebody's brother or son or family member and that they're struggling and just have more empathy. Because I know it's. It's kind of, like, easy to judge. Judge and poke fun at that, but that person is definitely struggling. And. Yeah, I just hope that people can have more empathy.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Kelly]

I work now as a behavioral therapist for kids with autism, and so I specialize in aba, and I connect that to Brian's disorder. So this is just my way of thinking about it and making sense of everything, because I do see some connections with the behaviors of my kids that I work with and Brian, just the different ways to talk to them. And I think most importantly is to just stay calm and treat. Treat each person, treat anyone as you would want to be treated. And as a person with care and compassion. Yes, definitely. I think, like, even my kids will say random things and things that just don't make sense. Like, even my. My one client, she. She thinks the sound of am is hilarious. So if you say it's 3am she will start cracking up. Brian is similar to this, where he just starts bursting out laughing or he's just cackling in the corner. And I think instead of being like, oh, my gosh, what is he doing? Like, why is he just. Just. Why is she just sitting there cracking up to himself? You can just join. Join in and say, like, oh, like, what's so funny over here? What are we laughing about? You know, I think, yeah, just treating. Treating somebody with a mental illness or disorder as a person and giving them the empathy that they deserve. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And being patient, too.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know.

[Kelly]

Yeah, that's a big one. Patience is definitely.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Especially when it's your family. But I think that it's obviously so, you know, apparent how much you care. And at the end of the day, we're all human. You're just a human trying to, you know, live your own life as well and enjoy it, you know, and you deserve to enjoy your own life separately from your family and from any issues that are going on. And, you know, nothing against your dad, your mom, or anyone, but it's not always fair to carry a burden of having to hear, you know, something that is sad, you know, and it is sad, like the situation with your brother. And it's hard and to have to hear that often can be something that drags you down. And that's not their fault. They probably don't realize it either. But it is something where sometimes you have to draw those lines and create those boundaries for yourself and your own mental health so that you feel like, you know, today, if there's a time that someone's calling and just can't deal with it, you'd be like, today, I need this day for myself. You know, and that's okay, too, because you deserve to live your own life. You know, you can have a life of balance, where you show care and patience and empathy and emotion, and you help people, but you also have to help yourself where it's deserved. So. And I think that you are starting to find that for yourself, if you haven't already kind of found that. And I think by sharing it, it's such a big step, it seems, for you, and you should be so proud of yourself. You did a really, really amazing job of executing, I feel like everyone's, you know, journey throughout this diagnosis and even, like, before, during, and after and kind of where you guys are now. And like I said, really, you should be proud of yourself for that. You did amazing.

[Kelly]

Thank you. So, of course. Of course.

[Interviewer]

Do you think you got everything? Was there anything else you wanted to include?

[Kelly]

Oh. Oh, my gosh. I think. I think we're good. All right.

[Interviewer]

You did a really, really good job, seriously. And thank you so much for coming out here, seriously, the both of you. It means a lot to me, and there's so many people that can, you know, relate to this in so many different ways. So, yeah.

[Kelly]

Thank you for having me. Of course.