B (6:04)

Okay.

A (6:05)

It was as if the sexual harassment to them was like a badge of honor. Oh, well, they think I'm pretty. They think I, you know, oh, thanks for noticing me. But it was incredibly inappropriate things that were being said. And to. I was 19, and so that was my leadership. So I like observing people, and I'm like, well, they think that that's like a. A compliment. Yeah, like, no, that's. You know, so that was kind of how I. I observed people, and I was like, well, nobody is saying anything. And so I hadn't yet had anything happen to me. I had observed it with many other people in the operating room. And so I. I just really. There's a phrase in the military is shut up in color. I truly shut up. I just. I. Quiet. I was very quiet. And so in my first, I would say, six months of being there, I noticed that I was, you know, starting to struggle with my own mental health, and I. I developed anorexia. I. I mean, trigger warning for the weight, but I was £90. I'm. I've never been that. I just. And. But that was complimented. Oh, Trinity, you're so skinny. You go to the gym, like, can you show me? And I'm like, I'm struggling. Like.

B (7:31)

Right.

A (7:32)

You know, that's not something that I'm doing for vanity. So I, you know, as I internalized all this, I really began struggling with my mental health and all of these people that. Or individuals, I should say, that I reported. So I reported six individuals for sexual harassment, all of which were lieutenant colonels. So they were providers. So they were all anesthesiologists. And I was enlisted. So my first year. This goes on. I keep. You know, I'm. I'm taking notes. I'm writing everything down. I'm like, okay, this happened.

B (8:12)

So all this happened with the six lieutenants was within the first year.

A (8:15)

That's when it began. And it was actually, I would say, chronic sexual harassment. It really went on for up until 2021. December of 2021.

B (8:24)

OK, then to go back a little bit.

A (8:27)

Yeah.

B (8:27)

The reason you wanted to join the military, would you. You said your grandfather was in it, right?

A (8:31)

Yeah.

B (8:31)

Okay, so was that kind of like your driving force or was there other reasons?

A (8:35)

Honestly, I. I've been asked this question a lot. I think that coming from a small town where I did, I. I didn't know my place in the world and I really did not know how to maybe even just open the door to. To the life that I wanted. And so, you know, I got my undergraduate paid for. I'm about to start grad school. So that's, that's really why I joined as I was like, I don't want to. Student debt. Right. And I didn't know what I wanted to do.

B (9:08)

So what did you go to school for?

A (9:10)

Like, what did you graduate with a degree in? Psychology. And I'm about to start grad school for clinical mental health counseling.

B (9:15)

Okay, got it.

A (9:16)

So.

B (9:16)

But you were working in a hospital.

A (9:18)

Yes.

B (9:19)

Okay.

A (9:19)

Yes. So I was.

B (9:20)

But you didn't need like a.

A (9:22)

No. Okay, so you take this. It's like an asfab. So it's like a, A score. You know, you get scored on these different components.

B (9:31)

Okay.

A (9:32)

So based on. So I think for my job you needed like a minimum of like a 44 on the ASVAB.

B (9:37)

Okay. So basically. And that was a test. That's a test in the military. Okay.

A (9:42)

Yes. And honestly, there really is. No, it's just, okay, what do you want to do? And you talk to your recruiter. So that's how I ended up there. It's still 2018 and I am just, I'm really just showing up. It's. It's a lot of long days. I will say when you first kind of get to your duty station. In my afsc, we had to get signed off on all the different types of specialties. So I did like orthopedics, plastic surgery, you know, ent, general surgery, podiatry, eyes. Yeah, all of that. So we had to get signed off to make sure we were, you know, okay, you can move on to your next phase. You don't need supervised anymore. So I was working on completing that and I did, I. I did fine. And then I had one of my leadership who was, I mean, she was really, she was awesome. And she left, I mean, shortly after, she helped me. She was like, you're going up for btz? And I'm like, no, I don't want to. So that was. It's below the zone. So technically, if somebody, you know, they write you a package and they're like, we want this person to promote early. So we're gonna have, you know, this person is gonna go to a board, they're gonna get in their dress blues and in front of a board of, like, higher enlisted individuals. And so I ended up getting BTZ and I was. I ranked up six months early to senior airmen, so E4. And after that, I was picked to go work a clinic position. So from 20. Yeah, 2019 to 2021, I worked in plastic surgery. So I was assigned to a. I worked with. With mainly one physician, but two. So I was like the primary plastic surgery tech. I worked with the. The patients in the clinic, checked them in, you know, did all that. And then I would also go up to the. Or with them.

B (11:45)

When you say plastic surgery, like, was it elective plastic surgery?

A (11:50)

So most of what we did was breast cancer reconstruction. Okay. There was elective. We did, you know, liposuction, breast implants.

B (11:59)

And was it only for people within the military?

A (12:02)

So we. Yes, but it was their dependents, children, retired veterans. So it was quite a big population. Ah, yeah, we were very busy.

B (12:12)

Interesting.

A (12:13)

Yes. So I think this is really where I start to notice a lot more because I'm seeing a bigger, like, picture. I'm not just in the or, I'm in the clinic. I'm in the. You know, I'm essentially everywhere at this point. So I go to the plastic surgery clinic. It's 2019. Fast forward just a little bit of time. It's not 2018 anymore. So I'm working, I'm doing well, and I'm. I'm deliberately not saying what the sexual harassment was for a reason. I think that a lot of people tend to make excuses, so I am keeping that out deliberately just because I think there's no excuse for it. There's no excuse for it. So all of that was still going on. I did have these moments of where I was touched inappropriately. I was followed. I was asked to send inappropriate photos. I was, you know, people winking at me, waving, calling me, hey, pretty girl.

B (13:27)

I mean, and also, no matter where you are, when you're a young woman, or a woman of any age for that matter, we have a pretty good gut instinct. And if someone says something that makes you uncomfortable or feel like they're being flirty or this or that and the other, that you know what you feel. You know what I mean? Like, that's just. And I think that I just, like, once again, kind of like what you said in the beginning about how there's such this like blurred line between sexual harassment and assault and all that. And I agree with that. But at the same time, it shouldn't make it right for someone to be able to use words and say whatever they want and make someone uncomfortable. And that's just like not deemed as anything.

A (14:14)

Yeah.

B (14:15)

You know what I mean?

A (14:15)

Yes. I, I got btz. I went to the clinic and I. For a while it was a lot better. I had a quite a bit of separation. I was only really in the operating room on Tuesdays, which is days we operated up in the OR so. And I'm sure if anybody or you know, anyone, you know, if you talk about an operating room, it's, it's not what you expect it to be. We're listening to music, we're talking, we're. It's just another day of like, yes, there's sensitivity, but there's also, it's just very different. So there's a lot of, you know, people are, I would say most of my sexual harassment occurred in the operating room. Right.

B (15:06)

It almost becomes like everyone that's in there, I feel like it becomes their natural environment. So you get comfortable, you adjust to anything.

A (15:12)

Yeah.

B (15:12)

The more you do it, so.

A (15:13)

Yes, yes. And so I think that, yeah, the more comfortable people got, the more uncomfortable they made others. And that was really what I observed for all of my time and joining the military. I wanted to travel. I was like, I want to get out, I want to see the world, I want to make new experiences. And I unfortunately was stuck at Eglin Air Force Base for my six year enlistment. So I knew everybody well. Everybody knew me well. And I think that adds another layer of how hard it was to, to speak up. So like I said, I had developed anorexia and so that was still going on. I did begin to get mental healthcare in 2019, but again, the military is, It's a different world. So even from day one, I mean, it was the narrative that if you get mental health treatment in any capacity that is going to like impact your ability to say, rank up, get opportunities, get. You might get your clearance taken away. Like we have a security clearance. Yes. So even.

B (16:31)

Which is crazy because taking care of your mental health should be the most important thing.

A (16:36)

Yes, yes, absolutely.

B (16:39)

So I guess they look at it what is like a weakness in a way.

A (16:42)

Yes. And so a lot of times even, you know, it was a thing that my, my therapist had even told me is that it is my job just to get you fit for duty. I'm not going anywhere beyond that. If you are fit to do your job, you're good, right? Okay, well, what if I'm a high functioning individual who I still present myself? Well, I work hard, but behind the scenes, you know, like, that is a huge part of a lot of people's struggle, is that we put on a face. So that is what I did. I kept my face on, literally. And I just, I continued to struggle. And I remember this one particular. It was 2019. I went to my, my therapist and I, I told her, I said, I think I have anorexia. And she did a screening and she goes, yeah, you do, but this is a disqualifier in the Air Force. If I diagnose you with this, you will get separated and you will no longer be in the military. So I never received any treatment. I literally worked through my anorexia myself. I started reading books. I, you know, I was reading whatever I could on how I could, okay, how do I fix this, cure anorexia myself? Because it's a deadly disease. It really is. And it was something that for me went on for up until 2020. I experienced amenorrhea. I lost my period, My thyroid was completely shot. I had no metabolism, it was exhausted. So I think that's another component of why it took me so long to speak up is that I was exhausted. I had no energy other than just to survive. So by the grace of God, I actually work through this anorexia. I'm no longer like starving myself. But I don't know if you're familiar with like, orthorexia. It's, it's where you're essentially, it's like the hyper awareness of ingredients to things. So if, like you're at the grocery store, you're like, okay, that's. Well, that has a lot of processed, you know, whatever. And so that was what I focused on. And I can say I'm doing much better today. But so that was kind of how I coped. I couldn't control anything else. And so I began to control my body, my weights, my know, food, exercise. So that was going on, I would say, till 2020. So just keeping that in mind. So I'm still in the plastic surgery clinic, it's 2019. And one of the individuals who was harassing me became, became our patient, one of our plastic surgery patients. And I remember checking him in and I didn't want to close the door, but I. Then again, you know, I'm like, he's the patient. He has the right to patient privacy. So I close the door and when I tell you that just. It felt like the longest ever. Just. Okay. Yep. How much, how tall are you? Yep. Okay, let me get your vitals. Just the energy in that room, I think I could feel it. And it was so heavy that it started like to choke me almost. I was just, you know, when we talk about getting triggered, it's you. I feel it in my body first. So I remember I did that. I got through it and I went to go talk to the provider that I was, I was his tech. So I remember going in there and I was like, hey, I, I'm not going to check in, hit this patient anymore. This is what has happened. And he was really supportive. I will say that, that, that moment I was like, okay, okay. I felt heard and I no longer was checking him in. And it didn't go further than that though. I'm like, you know, okay. I opened up to this person who, you know, you're a physician but also a lieutenant colonel. Hey, it's Austin James. If you're like me trying to live your best life while living with diabetes.

B (21:12)

You can relate to worrying if you're.

A (21:14)

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B (22:57)

Right.

A (22:57)

You know, especially when you're talking about, you know, if I were to see these people outside, we don't salute in a building, but, you know, I gotta do all that, you know, and so I think that that plays a lot into this is that power dynamic. Um, they had the power to change what, whatever. That's what I believed, you know, for the longest time, and that's the way they acted, was that I am powerful, you're beneath me. And so that was just. That was the framework for my, you know, cognition at that point of that's how I thought. And so it's 2020 and I'm still in the plastic surgery clinic. I'm doing my thing. You know, I'm also going to school full time during all this. And so I'm just trying so hard. I'm like, okay, okay. Like, I just have to get through this. I need to finish what I joined for. If anything, they're not going to take that from me. So I'm still going to school. And I think it's just ironic too that I, you know, I'm learning all about trauma, informed care and, you know, just all, all of these things and that's just the first thing that comes to my mind. But I'm like, the more I'm learning, I'm looking around and I'm just gaining, you know, all this different perspective. And I think people underestimate the observer, somebody who's watching. And, you know, I always was. And I think that part of why I really wanted to come here today is I wanted to show them, you know, for me, for my healing, that I'm not beneath you. I am intelligent, I'm smart, and I will hold you accountable.

B (24:48)

Yeah. And you have a voice that you're going to use.

A (24:50)

Yes. And yeah. So I. A lot, you know, getting me through this. I have a quote that I. I think I made up. I don't know, but it's like, I'm not holding a grudge, I am holding accountability. That's kind of what carried me through. And as I'm holding this here, this is. I wrote this during my time. So in. I think it's 2021. Yes. So 2021, you know, things are still happening And I'm still. I'm just writing stuff down. And I'm like, okay, okay, I'm getting through this. But there comes to a point where I can't keep it in anymore. And I'm starting to really struggle with my mental health. I began experiencing paranoia. I would abuse sleep medications to sleep. I was so severely anxious. Just, you know, with the food, monitoring, the exercise, and then school and then, you know, all of my own personal struggles with, you know, depression, anxiety, and all of that, it really just was like boiling up.

B (25:57)

Overwhelming.

A (25:58)

Overwhelming to a point where I could. I could not do the basic, you know, there was no. There was nothing in my life beyond work. Going home, going to bed. Yeah, that's how it was. And so the military has a program, it's called Palace Chase. So essentially you. You serve like half. And correct me if I'm wrong, I really don't remember, but it's the remaining amount. So I would have three years left at this point? Yep, 2021. So if I palace chased, I would serve then six in the guard or reserves, but it wouldn't be active duty. So I was like, okay, let me do this. I'm gonna do my Palace Chase application. I got everything. You know, I submitted it. My commander had signed off on it, and unfortunately it was declined at AFPC just because the manning of my career field was. Was low. So they were like, we're not letting anybody go. We can't afford to. So that was really, I think, the catalyst of what I'm really gonna get into. And that was really hard for me. And so I actually, my. I had an ex at the time that we had been together since 2018, up until 2021. And he worked in the. A different clinic. So I worked plastic surgery clinic and he was in the ENT clinic. But we had the same leadership. Like, they were under the same, like, flight commander and all of that. So he, He. He did help me through a lot, but he got orders and. Okay. Oh, my gosh. My Palace Chase was denied. My only support system is going to leave. I don't know what to do. So I remember one of my. She was a master sergeant, and she had told him, she said, we're really worried about Trinity. And he goes, yeah, she's not doing well. And that was the end of it. I. And that was in December of 2021. She had talked to him and said that we're worried because my Palace Chase was denied. And I. I still don't know who the we are that she was talking about. We are worried. So that was December of 2021 that she had expressed to him that people were worried about me. And I did not hear from her until April of 2022. So I'm like, it just. I think that speaks volumes of, you know, that I. I don't even have the word for it. It's just, are you. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to say that if you don't mean it. It's okay. Right? And I remember that, you know, he told me that and I was like, oh, okay. Like, they're worried about me. Maybe they're gonna reach out to me and they wanna.

B (28:53)

Like, someone's paying attention.

A (28:54)

Yeah. Yeah. So, like, my time is coming to an end in the plastic surgery clinic and it was only like a two year kind of rotation and Covid kind of prolonged that for me. So I caught word that I was going back up to the or. And I. I mean, just talk about triggered. I was like, I cannot go back there. I don't know what I'm gonna do. And even saying that isn't putting the weight to it. It was a fear that, you know, we talked about that blurred line in the beginning of, like, if they're comfortable doing this to me, what next? I've already been touched, you know, inappropriately, in an inappropriate area. So I'm like, what is next? And I latched onto that. I, like, talk about paranoia. I was like, I. I couldn't go anywhere without looking over my shoulder. I was never alone in a room. Like, I would make sure that I had somebody there. I probably didn't explicitly say it, but I was always like, okay, someone's here. And just for myself, because I was like, I need a witness. Yeah, that's kind of where my brain was. So I talked to my leadership, my flight commander and my flight chief. And they're amazing. I. Yeah, just really good people. And they really fought for me. I remember I went to their office and I was crying. I was like, I can't go back up there. I don't know what to do. Something bad is gonna happen. And they tried and they tried and they tried, like, oh, no, we want. She needs to stay down here. You know, and they really tried and I really appreciate that from them, but it wasn't enough. So I had this one. She was the flight chief of the or, and it's kind of like the person in charge, the high, the enlisted person in charge. And she. I have no other words than just evil for her. She is just evil. So she was just, nope, nope, nope, nope. Need her back. Nope. And so she had just got there. And, you know, I didn't really know her. I had been away from that OR for like two years, you know, and I knew some people, I saw them, but I didn't really understand or see a lot of people. So I never really heard when I was going back to the or, it somehow just became a thing. So I began to hear these rumors that I was going back on October 12th of 2021, but I hadn't received an email or anything because when you. It's like a PCA. I'm not. I'm not PCSing. That'd be a permanent change of station. I was PCA, so it's just a change of assignment. So I was to fill out, you know, you have to get. Fill out all this paperwork to go back up to pca, back to the or. And I hadn't received any of that. Like, no email, nothing. I'm like, shouldn't you tell somebody when they're gonna go? Okay, I guess, you know, So I. I hadn't returned this. And so I found out on October 7th that I was returning. So she finally. She had told somebody. And then my flight chief told me. Still no email, no writing, nothing. And so I remember just hearing that, you know, going back there and I. Exam room six, that was always my, you know, my room that I would go into if I needed to take a breather or anything. And I remember I stepped in there and I really just. I lost it. Talk about like a boiling. It was like. And I was terrified. I honestly was terrified. It. The OR was never a safe place for me. It was never. From the beginning. Like, my first week, they were like, we're going to break you. Okay, well, I guess you guys have accomplished that. I'm, you know, I'm breaking. So I go back to the orange. I am. Honestly, I can't even really remember that time. I think I was just very, like, dissociated. Yeah. Honestly, just trying to survive because I was still struggling with orthorexia, you know, at that time. Depression, intense paranoia. And I. I had. There's just a few airmen up there that. They were young and there was. I'm not gonna say their names or anything, but it makes me emotional a little bit because there was this one airman and she. She painted me a whole, like, she called it a little magazine for one, and she painted, like, was hiking and she wrote me poems in it. And she was just, oh, precious. And so when I Returned, she was there, and she started to confide in me about her own struggles and the things that she was observing with the individuals that I would later report. And I remember a lot of them. You know, there is dark humor in the military. I absolutely understand that. And dark humor, you know, I love it. I have it, too. But I think there's a certain point where sometimes we use humor to cope, and there's truth in what we're saying. So I had a few of the airmen come to me, and at this point, I was a staff sergeant, and they had come to me, and they were confiding in me with their depression, and I heard some of them say they wanted to eat bullets for dinner. And I'm like, that's not really a joke. I take that quite seriously. And so I was like, hey, do you guys need help? Like, I've been going to therapy. Granted, I wasn't getting help. It was, you know, journal, think positive. You got this girl. And I'm like, what?

B (35:00)

Yeah.

A (35:01)

That does nothing for, like, when you actually need help. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I can journal all day, but I'm going to probably, you.

B (35:08)

Know, have the same thoughts.

A (35:09)

Yeah. Yeah. So we had this meeting, and it was just, you know, like, staff sergeants and above, and this is my first one. And I. I talked about the, you know, the morale of. Of people and the climate of the operating room and just the environment that everybody just seemed so okay with. And I remember. And she's. She's. I don't. You know, I don't. I don't. I'm really nervous about saying names just because I think.

B (35:43)

Don't. You don't have to.

A (35:44)

I know. Okay. I'm just gonna say my. She's my flight chief.

B (35:48)

Okay.

A (35:49)

And she was immediately focused on, well, who said that? And I was like, you know, I. I want to respect their privacy because they did say, please don't. Don't say that I said it. You know what I mean? So they were, like, very, very worried. Like, don't. Don't say I said anything. And so I was like, hey, I'm not gonna say it, but this is something that's going on. Yeah.

B (36:13)

You were just expressing your concern.

A (36:15)

Yeah. And so she. I mean, that was upsetting to her. She, like, crossed her arms, and she goes, how depressing. And I'm like, yeah, girl. Like, people are experiencing depression and struggling. Yes. And so it was, you know, after she said how to. It wasn't talked about anymore. And so there is a handbook. It's called the Air Force Handbook. And that's kind of. That outlines people's, like, duties by their ranks. So for her, the responsibility of a non commissioned officer is to champion, you know, they say champion mental readiness. You need to be actively aware of the issues in subordinates that can impact mental readiness and mission effectiveness. Okay, she failed that one. And then next is she needs to remain keenly aware of individual and group dynamics affecting readiness and safety. She failed that as well. I mean, that's just one of the. To the few ones. Just very incompetent as a, As a person who's in a leadership position. So. Well, that was upsetting. But, you know, I continued on and I had the final kind of experience that would just. I would never be the same as I was. I would never go back to who I was, where I was, anything. So November, I was scrubbing into a case. And so I'm. It's. It was a common thing that in the or we called, you know, it was called getting dressed, putting our gown and gloves, all the things. We're getting dressed. And there was this one individual who was a civilian, and I would say he's probably one of the bigger perpetrators in terms of like, you know, assault and harassment. And it's an old white man. So he begins, as I'm doing this, he's whispering comments in my ears and I'm sterile. I can't, you know, can't put my hands below my waist. I can't touch anything. I can't. You know what I mean? So I was getting ready for surgery and like, there's a patient on the table and he's whispering things about how he wants to see me undressed and how he wishes he could take a picture and how he has been waiting for this forever.

B (38:45)

And. Was it just you two? Okay?

A (38:47)

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I like, snapped. Like, that was the day I was like, I'm not taking this anymore. I, I just, I couldn't do it at this point. It had been comments like that since I arrived in 2018 from six individuals. And so I would label it was chronic. I never got a break from it. And especially when you're in an environment where there's like, sterility involved. I can't just, you know, I. This person's, you know, we got them cut open and we're, you know, I'm. I have to be responsible for that. I can't focus on who's saying what and when. So, yeah, I. That was like the last straw for me.

B (39:36)

Did you say any. Did you respond to him like, did you say anything?

A (39:39)

I froze. I froze. I didn't look at him. I didn't turn around. I just pretended I couldn't hear him, but he knew that I did, and so he didn't talk to me the rest of the time. And I honestly, I can't remember even the rest of that day or anything. So December 15, I had a therapy appointment. And so I. I like, Eglin Air Force Base is here, and there's another close space. It's called Hurlburt. And so I didn't want to see any mental health providers at Eglin just because I worked in the hospital. It was very. It wasn't safe. And so I asked. I was like, can I go to Hurlburt? It's a different base, very close. And so I started seeing a therapist there. And so at that point, I was. I was extremely overwhelmed. I was. I was truly living in survival mode. And I disclosed to my therapist at. That's this appointment on just in December that I was beginning or had been thinking and had a plan to take my life. And, you know, she would think, I really do thank her. She. She truly saved my life that day. And she was like, nope, you're staying here with me. We're gonna go. We're gonna send you to a hospital, and you're gonna stay there, and you're gonna get the help that you really need. And she wasn't in the military. She was like a contractor. So she had some separation. And she was like, nope, you. Nope, nope, I'm calling right now, and you're going. And I was like, panicked. What are they going to think? What are they going to do? Oh, my gosh. And I almost said no. I almost said no because of the fear of not even being perceived, but, like, that weakness. So she gets me a bed. And for some reason. So in the military, they have what is called a first sergeant, and they work for the commander for essentially, like, they take care of people in the unit. They're like, okay, how's everyone doing? Is there anything somebody needs help with? And so I was told that I would. I couldn't drive myself. I couldn't have a friend drive me. My first sergeant had to. And so my first sergeant was out maybe on vacation, and they had the, like, acting first sergeants or people who filled in. And I remember they got a bed for me at this hospital, and I just had to wait for my first sergeants to come pick me up. And so Eglin and Hurlburt are 15 minutes apart. So I was like, okay, this isn't going to take too long. I have to go get clothes. And I haven't eaten in a long time. And, you know, I think a lot of things run through your head. And when I was just told, you know, go wait in the waiting room, like, we'll get this all situated. They'll be here soon. I waited four hours, four hours for them. And when they walked in, they didn't look at me, they didn't greet me. They just walked back to meet my therapist and talk about just. I'm like, yeah, my worst fear just came through. Like, they, you know, they seem like, you know, a lot of people when they're experiencing mental health, they feel like a burden. And so I think that's a lot of people's worst fear is like, I don't want to be a burden. And unfortunately, they truly made me feel like I was a burden. And so, you know, I'm sitting just like, anxiety stricken. Like, these people don't even have the respect to look at me or to say, hey, like, you, like, we got you. You know, even to say, like, hey, I'm here for you. No. So my anxiety was unbearable. It was. It was really hard to breathe. I was nervous about being admitted to a behavioral hospital. You know, I think that's. To even get to that point for a lot of people, it's like, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm. I do need help. And so I was still with my boyfriend at the time, and he was there and he, you know, he truly, like, he did way more than he ever needed to. And I've thanked him many times for that. So I remember we, you know, it was finally time to go. And so it was like an hour drive to the hospital where I was gonna go stay. And I asked them, you know, the acting first sergeants, There was two of them. It was a male and a female. I said, can I go to my house? I need clothes, I need shampoo. I need, you know, you need the essentials. And I will never forget this woman looked at me and she rolled her eyes and she goes, okay, girl. And so I literally just began to cry. I, like, she rolled her eyes at me and I'm like, how do I respond to that? Like, you're meeting me on probably the worst day of my life and you're gonna roll your eyes at me. It's just. It was so no empathy. Yeah. And com. Like, no empathy. Completely incompetent. Just, you know, and as I, you know, continue to tell this. A lot of it can be summed up as incompetence. Just. Just a lack of whatever you want to call it. Yeah. So, yeah, she rolled her eyes at me. I did go to my house because my boyfriend was like, what? Like, no, we're gonna go. She needs clothes. She needs. I'm not gonna wear my uniform at a hospital, right? So I go there. They don't even get out of the car to, like, help me get my bag. They literally pull up. I get out of the car, go check in, and go back, and they just leave. Never said bye. And I still haven't heard from them to this day. Like, that was truly the last interaction I had with them. And a lot of this, I don't really remember what they say, but I don't remember who said it. But there's a famous quote. It's like, people won't remember what you said, but they'll remember how you made them feel. And I think that speaks volumes to this because it was just so compounded with, you know, a lot of all of these experiences and then this one. And then, you know, these people I'm supposed to look up to are just wildly lacking in some component that needs to be there for you to. You know what I mean? Like, you're a leader, right? So I check in. I get there. It was like, 11 at night. Like, I waited a long time to go there, and I get there, and I'm, like, exhausted, and I'm at this hospital. And then my first sergeant finally, you know, he returns from vacation or whatever. And so I start getting phone calls from him, and I'm like, I have never. I've never met him. I just. I think that's. That's really important during this, is that I've never met this person. And so he starts calling me, and there's, like, phones on the wall. It's a long hallway. There's a lot of patient rooms. And, you know, you kind of wait your turn, or they'll be like, hey, Trinity, phone call. You know, you need to go get it. And I'm like, okay. Thinking it's my boyfriend or, you know, maybe my mom. And I answer it, and he goes, hey, this is Sergeant blah, blah, blah. And I'm, like, triggered. Because the whole phone call, it's my, like, first day, it's the next day, and he's just talking about how, you know, it's so tone deaf. He was talking about himself. He didn't ask me anything. He was like, hey, like, I'm back, had a good vacation, like. And I'm like, I'm in the hospital. What? So I hang up and I'm like, okay, that was really weird. I've never met this person. And he just, like, just tone deaf. I actually, like, I have no words for it because I'm like, what made you think that that was okay to just.

B (48:20)

Right. Hey, guys. Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Something that I have found that can be very scary in life is feeling like you are alone. Like you're the only one struggling with something that. And like you really don't have anybody that understands or anyone that you can really feel like you can talk to and trust. But the older I've gotten, something that I've realized is that we are not as alone as we think we are. I can genuinely say nine times, if not 10 times out of 10. There are so many other people that are dealing with similar feelings, similar struggles as we are. I am somebody that held dolphin therapy for many, many years for many different reasons. But honestly, after starting my therapy journey just a few years ago, I feel like I have truly learned so many amazing coping skills and have been able to set boundaries in my life where I honestly didn't even know that I needed them. There is a major misconception that therapy is only for people that have experienced major trauma. And that is just not true at all. Even if you are somebody that just needs someone to talk to for your day to day struggles or relationships or family situations that you might be going through, therapy can benefit literally anyone and everyone. I think everyone can benefit from from having someone to talk to and someone that they feel like they can genuinely just open up to. That being said, if therapy is something that you've been wanting to try for a while, I think BetterHelp is a perfect opportunity because it is extremely convenient, it's flexible, it's all online, and it is completely designed to be around your schedule. All you have to do is go online and fill out a brief questionnaire and then you will be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can change therapists at any point until you find one that you really feel comfortable with for no additional charge. Overcome your fears with better help. Visit betterhelp.cominsane today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp h lp.cominsane and now back to today's episode.

A (50:13)

So I finally get to meet with the psychiatrist and immediately I am diagnosed with major depressive disorder, with suicidal ideations, eating disorders. They didn't specifically label it. It just said, like, at risk for altered nutrition, which is like the fancy way of, you know, you have an eating disorder. And then I was also diagnosed high risk for re. Victimization. And I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder. So to be told that I think I. I journaled about it when I found out, I'm like, ocd. Ugh. What? No, no, not me. That's crazy. No. But I started to learn more, and it's not how people talk about it. It's not being clean. It's not being neat. It's not being organized. And for me, I had what is called, or I still have what is called pure ocd. So it's all in my head. My compulsions, my, you know, obsessions. It's all in my head. So I went undiagnosed for a very long time. And I found out that actually the World Health Organization OCD is In the top 10 most debilitating disorders because most people end up taking their lives. It's extremely. You can't run away from it. So I was diagnosed with ocd. And that's kind of where that paranoia came in, is that it was really all in my. In my head. But I was actually having these, you know, real experiences where people were following me, you know, that one individual was following me. So it wasn't crazy. I was actually having, you know, some of these experiences that, like, I don't know. And this is another thing, too, is that I. I never, before I joined the military, had any mental health. I've never. I was, you know, did a lot of sports. I loved doing, you know, I just. I was a completely different person. And so, yeah, getting told that it was really hard. It was like. Like, that was, you know, all the other things. I'm like, okay, but ocd? I'm like, I. I can't cure that. That is for life. I will live with this for the rest of my life. And that was really hard to cope with in the midst of all of this. And so it was December 21, 2021. And I remember my. My first sergeant, he just kept calling, and he would not give up. I was like, dude, it is my right as a patient to not have any visitors during this time. I do not want any visitors. I want to heal. I want to take advantage of, like, I'm actually getting mental health care here for the first time in five years. And so I really just wanted to focus on that. I didn't have my phone. I didn't have Nothing. It was. Sounds crazy, but a really good experience. So on December 21st, my first sergeant came with my boyfriend. And so I thought it was only my boyfriend who was going to be there. And so I was really excited to see him. And I was waiting in the hallway and they were like, like, okay, it's time for visitation. And my first sergeant, like steps in front of my boyfriend and goes back and he's like, I need to talk to you. And I'm like, I didn't want you here. But I couldn't say that because I'm like that power dynamic of like, I could get in trouble if I say that. I just, I can't even remember. I just like, just gave chills up my spine. And I now know it was because what was going to happen in that conversation. So it was still kind of like the coming off of like the huge Covid, you know, when we, we had to wear masks and we had like a. The clear film in front of. We were sitting at like a table like we are. And when you're in a mental behavioral health hospital, you, you're not allowed to have any clothes with strings. You know, there's a lot of things and you're just not at your best. You're not, you know, you can't shave your legs or anything. You're not, you know, you're. I was already wildly uncomfortable because I was not living the standards that I usually would have. But I sat down and I just started to cry. And I told him what had been going on. And that was so hard for me. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees. Promote for new customers for a limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slows full terms@mintmobile.com okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was. That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.

B (55:53)

One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking.

A (55:57)

Ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Whatever you love, find it on eBay. EBay. Things people love. But my therapist had been like, trinity, you can do this. You got this. And I'm like, okay, okay. And so I. I told him I have been sexually harassed. And, you know, I told him the last incident and everything, and he cut me off. He put his hand out like this, and he goes, whoa. You need to keep in mind they're doctors, and they say inappropriate things sometimes. And I'm. What? I wanted to throw up because you're here for me. Your job specifically in the military, is to take care of people. You're a first sergeant. You work for the commander to make sure everyone's doing okay. And so, yeah, immediately sick to my stomach. And he told me that with no follow up. He didn't give me any reporting instructions, guidance, or anything.

B (57:06)

So basically, he just tested, dismissed.

A (57:08)

Oh, completely invalidated, just. And dismissed. And was like, keep in mind, they're doctors. And I'm like, what does that have to do with it? You know? So I. You know, I shut down. I think that was the only thing I knew how to do at that point was to just shut up in color. So I. I just. I stopped talking. I was like, I just. I want to leave. And then he started talking about his personal traumas. So he, you know, cut me off, and then he's like, my wife had brain cancer. My. Oh, it's. It's been so hard. Oh, I'm. Oh, my gosh. And I'm like, do you want me to go get somebody? Do you want to come stay here? Like, I don't understand. And that's not to be dismissive of him, but it's just, like, I don't know if I'm allowed to, like, cuss or anything, but respectfully, you. Like, I'm here because I almost took my life, and you're, you know, making it about you. Yeah. And that was a theme with him. And so, yep, I. I broke down, and I wrote here. This is a document that I wrote while everything was going on. So I said, throughout the visit, he did most of the talking. I was consistently met with one upping mentality and was forced to listen to his personal traumas and past experiences. He kept dismissing my situation as just a breakdown. So the use of his invalidating terms paired with his unprofessional and inappropriate behavior was on beyond disappointing and defeating. He spoke of his own breakdowns while simultaneously negating the severity of my situation. This was not a breakdown on my part. I was crying for help. That was, you know, I had years of sexual harassment, untreated mental illness, and extreme burnout. I was inpatient for two weeks. So I spent Christmas there. And honestly, it was a good Christmas. They got us gifts and it was, it was cute. We all like, sat around a little thing and opened our presents and I met a lot of really good friends there. And I stayed in a, it was military only, so I, you know, there was officers there. There was. And you know, we had everybody, you know, Navy or Air Force or the Marines. And so we all kind of came together and it was, it was, it was really nice. We all got to bond and just really feel supported from one each other, like one another. So I get out and I go to what is called iop. It's an outpatient. It's like group therapy you go to every day. And so I, I did that for two months. Two months. Every single day I went to group therapy. And I think that's where I gained most of my courage to even want to report. And my treatment at iop, so it largely consisted of lowering and managing my anxiety around speaking up for myself. And so while I was diagnosed at the inpatient facility for high risk for victimization. So that at its core encompasses a variety of psychological processes that are limited and make it really hard to say no. So it wasn't that I just had people pleasing tendencies. It was that I actually, I just, I wasn't equipped with, with that. And that's why, you know, high risk for re. Victimization. You put me back there. That's, it's, it's going to happen again. And so I remember there was one specific day that my therapist, and I'm going to say her name because she's amazing. Her name was Ms. Tracy. And I love her. And she, she truly helped me in so many ways. And so Ms. Tracy was like, we're going to do an exercise. We're going to all sit down and you're going to be Trinity's commander and you're going to be the first sergeant. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to like, role play in front of people something really hard. And so I know she did this because the next day I had a treatment team meeting with my commander, first sergeant and my therapist. And I literally, I couldn't do the exercise. I sat there and cried. I, like, didn't know what to say. I It's just. And everyone's kind of just, is she gonna say something? And I'm like, I do the thing where if you cry, but it's just like, you're silent and tears just run down. So I just sat there and Ms. Tracy was like, you got it, girl. You know, and she's trying to, like, prompt me of, like, how do you. How are you feeling? And I'm like, I don't know. So that's how that, like, practice round went. So, you know, next day, it was January 7, 2022. I had a. My treatment team meeting. And I really, really, like. I don't know why it's called a treatment team, because, I mean, you just have two individuals that are just like my bosses. They're not. They haven't been involved in my treatment. If anything, they've been involved in my harm.

B (62:27)

Right.

A (62:27)

So I had this meeting, and it was protocol. And so I was also placed on. When you get out of those facilities, you're placed on what's called the hill. So it's a high. What does it stand for? It's a high interest list or high. I think it's high interest list, where essentially it's your high risk for, you know, suicide or something. So I was placed on that, and I was on that for. For quite a while. And I remember we had this. And so my. My first sergeant, my commander and my therapist were there. So I arrived at 13:45, so 1:45, and my appointment was at 2. And so, you know, I got there 15 minutes early. I checked in, and I sat down, and I was sitting by the window. And when they arrived, they didn't look at me, they didn't say hi, nothing. And so, like, okay, well, this is also my worst fear yet again, it's a, you know, replay of when I was sitting in that same spot in my, you know, getting ready to leave. And, you know, they didn't listen. So I'm sitting there, and my therapist called us back to the clinic room. And I remember my commander looking at me, and she goes, oh, my gosh, I didn't even recognize you. Like, yeah, I know she didn't. You can, like, show. You know, you're supposed to get out and introduce yourself to people. Like, you're the commander. People are supposed to know you. They didn't really do that. And so they really didn't know their people. And so I think that's what she was really meaning to say is like, oh, I just didn't know. I didn't know you Right. So. So during this meeting, I tried my best to convey the severity of my situation. At times, I was crying, and I struggled to feel heard. So I informed all of them that, you know, this is what happened to me. And I also shared how he handled it when I had disclosed to him. And he. I'll never forget this. He interrupted me yet again and was, like, very assertive and just making sure that he was not in the wrong. And he. You know, when you talk about gaslighting, it's like, you know, some people like, oh, gaslighting. You're gaslighting me. This truly was gaslighting. He was like, no, that's wrong. You didn't do that. No. You didn't tell me anything. And I'm like, yes, I did. Yes, I did. And you said, keep in mind, they're doctors. And he said that I turned down his offer to provide reporting instructions. I'm like, somebody get the. Like, I know there's camera rolling in that room. So I'm like, no. So that was how that ended. I. I shut down. I was silent unless I was spoken to for the rest of that meeting. I just. No matter what I said or how I said it, I felt like I was not taking seriously by my commander, who was a colonel, or my first sergeant. So I'm like, gosh, okay, well, I've got to do this by myself still. At this point, I reported the initial sexual harassment on December 21st of 2021. And up until January 10th, I still had received no reporting instructions. So I was left to deal with this again. So I had called. On January 10, I called Sapper and EO. So I wasn't sure. Sapper, it's like the Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office. And then EO is equal opportunity. They deal with, like, discrimination, harassment. And so I was like, let me just call them. And so I called, and my first sergeant, commander. Yep. Still had not provided me with resources or guidance pertaining to reporting sexual harassment and hostile work environment. So I received the Sapper phone number from my therapist after my treatment team meeting. Not for my leadership. So I called them, and a tech sergeant answered. And I was like, hey, you know, this is what's happening. How do I report sexual harassment? I don't know. And she was like, I have a medical appointment, and so I have to go, but you can call yo. And I'm like, okay, okay. Just once again, I'm like, what? Like, how. How is everybody here not doing the right thing? Yeah, like, literally every single person. And that was really hard. And so I was like, okay, let me just call eo. And so. Oh, she didn't even give me that. She's like, call EO and hung up. And I'm like, okay, I gotta find that number. Okay, So I find the number on Google and I, I call and I'm like, hey, same question. How do I report sexual harassment? And she told me it was another female. She said that I could not report it to EO directly and that the EO office would reach out to my leadership. Ooh, that was. Yeah, that caused a lot of anxiety for me because I wanted to not get my leadership involved. And my commander was an OB GYN surgeon. So she worked with the people who were harassing me. You know, they were the anesthesiologists that would, you know, help her in her cases. And so it was just very biased and there was no separation. And so, yep, I was told that, oh, your leadership has to report that. You can't report it here. And I'm like, well, what if I don't want to do that? She goes, no, that's the only way. And I'm like, I don't. Oh, gosh, you know, rethinking my whole life's choices at this point of like, do I even want to report this? And so from my understanding, I, you know, December 21st was when I really opened up. And the first sergeant works directly for the commander, so he should have told her, like, hey, this is what's going on. Let's start, you know, investigation or, or something. And so I think it also is really important that I, I say that, like, everybody knew everything to do for sexual assault, but for sexual harassment, you know, I just learned, I have notes here that I, I mean, I, it was a simple Google, so I don't know what that says about them, but, you know, I was able to Google this and find out literally everything you're supposed to. Sexual harassment. And so now it's February 2022. My initial disclosure was December 21st of 2021. So on February 1st, I get a call from my first sergeant and he's like, hey, we're starting a CDI, which is a command directed investigation. And I had no choice. He was like, we're starting this. And he informed me that I was to meet with a lieutenant colonel the next day to make my report. So he was like, I told her that you're a good hard working airman, people like you. And that was extremely frustrating to me because that alluded to the fact that I would have Been subjected to different treatment if I was not a hard working person, if I was not liked by people. So that just made me, you know, question that credibility of like, well, what if I. What if I wasn't that way? I wouldn't. I'm already not getting good treatment, but it would be worse. So next day I have this meeting with the. They call it an investigating officer. And so I go in there, I haven't been given any information of like, hey, this is how these things work. I wasn't given the option to have legal representation, which I later learned I should have. So, yeah, I just went into it, just, you know, scared little thing of, you know, what do I do, what do I say? And also struggling with OCD during this time of like, you know, it's a doubting disorder. I doubted everything that I thought and said. I was convinced I was going to jail. And I felt that in my bones. I was like, I am not. It was just like a doubting that made it really hard to continue to stand up for myself. But I told myself, okay, you're gonna do this, you have to do this. I felt that if this was the only thing I was going to do in the whole time I was in the military, I'm going to do it. And so I go to this, you know, meeting with her, and she's very like, Kurt, like, short, intense, and she, she's writing my statements down, but she's really, really struggling to, like, listen and pay attention at the same time. And so I, you know, I even started talking slower and I was like, do you need me to repeat that? No, no. Okay. So I go home, you know, I'm done with that. And the next day she emails me, hey, Trinity. Just wanted, you know, to follow up on the, you know, from yesterday. Why did this happen to you? Girl, don't ask me that. You should ask them why they felt comfortable doing that. So that was immediate, like victim shaming. You know, I had already had this shame for so long, and then for her as the investigating officer, I'd be like, why'd this happen to you, by the way? Excuse me. So that was that. And then, you know, week goes by, I get the first draft of my statements, and in there she has placed statements I never said, places I never was, people I did not mention. And I'm like, girl, this is all wrong. She's got grammatical errors. She. I'm like, girl, put a period at the end of your sentence. Like a comma, maybe capital letter, like complete. Like, once again, incompetent. Like, truly, like, I'm already going through this and you're falsifying, like, that's a legal document at this point. You're putting in there things that I never said, places I never was, people I didn't even talk about. And so it speaks that it was just biased from the beginning. This investigating officer was a nurse in the hospital that my commander knew. So it's, you know, it's all this like web of just, you know, when you think about the military, a lot of people and what my grandpa had told me, he said, it's a game, play it. And I didn't know what that meant until this moment. You know, it's like, who you know, it's a good boys club. And if you're not one of them, good luck. So that was how that ended with, you know, and we sent back drafts, like, I think I corrected hers like six times before it was finalized. And this is the final copy right here. Which still, when I look at it, I'm just like, I. You could tell. I totally just was like, I don't care anymore. Because I had emailed her back and forth so many times. It was as if, you know, when you're thinking like, I can only correct you so many times before you just, you're just not getting it. So, yeah, I wrote here when I received the first draft, you know, I was really disappointed. She used improper grammar, punctuation bounced around, and she placed statements in the draft that I had not said in places I had not been. So that was. And I was just kind of sitting in that waiting period of like, well, what happens after this? Because, you know, once again, I still wasn't being properly informed on the process and the procedure of how this works. So on the 11th of March of 2022, I had the last conversation with my first sergeant. And so at this time, I was starting to return to work in a way that like, you know, do half days for the beginning because I had been out for so long and I was. They had a still during COVID And so I, I was kind of thrown to, you know, a lot of people when we worked there. We called each other the misfits because it was where, you know, oh, we don't wanna. Nope, we're not gonna mess with them. They need to be kind of far away. And so I was working with the pandemic mitigation cag. It was like an extension of public health. And essentially all I did was, you know, do reports and swap people for Covid. And I Was alone most of the time. And I, you know, so I was essentially just like thrown to the wayside. And, you know, I wasn't involved in any of this whatsoever. It was, it was very much. I wasn't given the choice to even be anonymous. And that was something that I learned later on. I should have had the choice. I, you know, in that meeting when I sat down with her to give her my statement, she goes, and she told me flat out, they're going to know this is you. You're not going to be anonymous. They're going to know it's you, and they're going to know exactly what you're saying. They're going to read these statements and they'll have the chance to say if it happened or not. That gave me even more anxiety because I'm struggling with, you know, my obsessions and my paranoia. And then you tell me that they're gonna know. That just triggered it to another level. And I had a really hard time. It almost like developed to agoraphobia, to be honest. Like, I couldn't leave my house really at this point. My boyfriend and I had broken up. He moved, he went to just a different state. And so I was alone with all of this. And so this last phone call that I had with him, he called me and he goes, hey, the investigation's pretty much over. It just needs to be, you know, routed up for signature. And he goes, oh, also the commander's going to determine the percent to which each incident happened. And I remember, like, being like, what percentages in terms of someone's like, psychological harm? How can you even say that? Oh, maybe that happened 14% to them or maybe like 30%. And so I was like, you know, once again that, like, I don't even have the autonomy to use my voice and to say this happened without somebody in that higher ranking abusing their power to say this didn't happen. Especially in the med group. You know, they were all friends.

B (78:02)

Yeah.

A (78:03)

They all worked together. They probably went to med school together. And so that was just. Yeah, just to hear that. And that be the last phone call ever. I was like, are you kidding? Like you're going to determine these percentages? So I was not pleased with that. I was like, this isn't right. Yeah, I even have resources here that I cited because I typed this. This is an 11 page document that I've been kind of referring to throughout this. So there's a. It's called the inspector general. And you can go to them if you feel that something wasn't handled right or. Yeah. If anything was not. Yeah, just not handled properly. And so I typed this document up. I wrote this May of 2022, and it's 11 pages. I went to the IG, the inspector general, and I sat down and I said, this is what's happening. And he goes, hey, sweetheart, I'm going to stop you right there. I'm not going to read that. And I was like, what? What do you mean? And he was like, I'm not going to read that, but you can write your congressman. And I'm like, what? I'm going to write my congressman for his secretary to shred it. Like it's not. No. What? Yeah, so that was like. I haven't talked about it since I took this to him till today. So it feels very, like, cathartic to, you know, get this out and to, to also be just once again, you know, holding that accountability. And so that's kind of like the timeline of events. But what I really specifically wanted to really just, I think for me and my healing journey is I have notes on this of all the, the things like the policies, procedures that were broken. The Independent Review Commission, it's. It was started by the Secretary of defense in 2021. So timeline of this 2021. This was before I even went to the, you know, I was even inpatient. I even reported anything. So they did a, like a huge review of how sexual harassment in the military is handled, of how it should be reported, what the timeline should look like, who needs to be involved. And so they published this huge review report in 2022. And they had a lot of. I learned a lot, and I learned even more that a lot more went wrong. So I think it's important that I even say this. So when you're in the military, you know, we're following the Constitution, the UCMJ, but in addition to that, like the Title 7 of the Civil rights I. We're not protected like we are. So it's, you know, we can't take legal action to stop harassment. We can't get restitution for harassment from the employer, and we can't quit our jobs. So, in fact, doing so is actually a crime. Like, you can't, you can't leave the military, you know, your government property. And so therefore it just creates this closed system where, you know, people are being harassed and they are trying to speak up, but you just have these, you know, this cycle where it's like, oh, and can't do nothing. Can't, you know, or so be it. Whatever. So this is the part that when I learned I was just like my. My jaw hit the ground. So the officer receiving the complaint, which is December, December of 2021, she had 72 hours to start the investigation. It took her a month and a half. And that's policy like written in. I have it down here. Yep. DOD ID 102.0.03 and I. You know. But it requires that complaints be processed within 72 hours. You must comply and you also must provide the information about the process, victim support resources and off base like appeal rights. So I should have had legal representation. All the things this episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. 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Up to 45% off select styles plus a free professional measure during the blinds.com year end blowout rules and restrictions may apply and I should have also been given the option to submit a report anonymously. Like I said, I was told that I had no option to be anonymous. So that you know, that's right there. You took somebody's right away to remain anonymous. So. And then again with the investigating officer. This person had no investigating experience. They had no training on sexual harassment, discrimination or even trauma informed techniques. And they even specified that they might even be in the complainants or the offender's unit, which they were. So I also brought this here today because I just, I really, I think for me more, I think I've just been so invalidated so many times. I'm just like I write everything down. But I also learned that this should have been written on a like a particular Air Force form. And it, you know, there's formats for how these forms are written. And it's, you know, on the bottom, it will say air Force form, blah, blah, blah. And then the name of it. This is written on what I think is a word document. I don't even know. Like, it's just typed up, literally. And so I'm like, okay, well, that's also wrong. So formal complaints. I also didn't know if there was a difference between an informal and a formal complaint and being anonymous or not. So I feel like from the beginning, I just. I didn't have those options. It was like, you're not going to be anonymous. I didn't know if, you know, if a formal complaint is that a CDI or, you know, like, I just. I was not kept in the loop.

B (85:05)

Nothing was taken seriously.

A (85:06)

Nothing.

B (85:06)

And basically, nothing came out of you reporting.

A (85:11)

Oh, no. I was the one removed from the unit. And the. They. The civilian who had spoken in my ear, he got to retire. Nobody. I remember even sitting down with my commander and her telling me that this is none of their first offenses. Huh. Oh, interesting. Okay, girl. Yeah. I think that's what hurt even more. You. They had the opportunity to do the right thing, and they didn't.

B (85:44)

Yeah.

A (85:44)

And I think this, you know, it adds another layer that President Biden signed an executive order on January 26, 2022, that made sexual harassment an offense under Article 134 of the UCMJ. So they should have. They should have gotten in trouble, but they got to retire. They got to go on and, you know, go to their next duty stations. And I think that's what hurt even more, is that, you know, I gained all this confidence to report. Yeah. And even President Biden acknowledging it, that, hey, sexual harassment is traumatizing and it's pervasive, it's harmful. It's. You know, and so I was like, okay, because January 26th, I hadn't even made my report until February 2nd. They had time. I'm not sure if they just didn't want to or.

B (86:36)

So none of these people had consequences. And then you said you were asked to leave your unit.

A (86:41)

Yeah, I left. I had to leave and go to public health. I had no training in public health. I had. You know what I mean? Like, you had asked earlier about, like, training. Oh. And it had none. I didn't know anybody there. I was just this new person who. I didn't do anything. And they were like, what do you do here? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, yeah, So I was just, yeah, ostracized. And I remember I went. So when I went inpatient and when I got out and then I moved to public health, I had worked with a lot of those people for five years. I never heard from any of them. They never reached out. And I think that's really hurtful because there were so many times that I had cried for help in, you know, verbal or nonverbal ways and just, you know, to be completely ostracized for doing the right thing, that was really hard. That was extremely hard. And so I was also, you know, while I have had these mental health concerns, I've also had physical implications for the chronic stress that I was under. So I've also, you know, I don't know if you guys probably can hear. I have a little bit of a lisp, but I was under such chronic stress for so long. I was. You know, you bring the shoulders up and you kind of clench. I was diagnosed with idiopathic condylar resorption, where essentially, my jaw joints are disintegrating, so I will have to have a jaw joint replacement at some point in my life. And I am in chronic pain because of it. Like, I. You know, I can manage it quite well now, but. Yeah, since ever. Since 2019, January, I just. I've been in pain every single day. And, you know, I've tried. I've tried so many things. You know, Botox, I've had my nerves ablated on my cervical spine, acupuncture, you know.

B (88:31)

Do you feel that you've healed from that trauma yet?

A (88:36)

I don't. I don't know. I think it will be, like, a. Not a lifelong thing, but.

B (88:43)

Because, like, if that trauma is still present in your body, then so is the pain.

A (88:48)

Yes.

B (88:48)

You know, like, it's all intertwined together, and I think it's gonna take really sorting through that trauma and, like, literally physically releasing that to, like, physically release that pain.

A (89:01)

Yeah. And that was one of the reasons, when I got out, I moved to Colorado because I. I wanted to be in a space where. And I'm so thankful that I found, you know, the therapist that I have now. I've been diagnosed with ptsd now from. From my experience, sexual harassment in the military, extreme invalidation is traumatizing, and that's valid. You know, I think I spent a lot of time saying, you know, I wasn't assaulted. So I don't know if it really matters or if it. If it's as painful, but it is. You know, I had my autonomy taken. I Had my voice taken. And I think that's why my jaw, you know, it's so close to my mouth. And I just wanted to scream for so long. But I will say that I've done a lot of progress. I think it's really validating to be diagnosed correctly. I spent so much with undiagnosed obsessive compulsive disorder, and it's. It's truly a blessing that I even made it here today, honestly, because there was just so many times that I just. You can't tell the difference between the obsessions and the compulsions of. Especially when it's in your head. And mine were quite morbid. So I was having a lot of intrusive thoughts of taking my own life and how I would do that. And so that started to morph into, well, is that something I want? But now I can understand that I have, you know, those intrusive thoughts, but they're not me, and they're not true. They're not facts. They're just thoughts. So that's pretty much, you know, the end of my story. I would love to, you know, accountability. I know my therapist. She's amazing. She's, you know, very validating. And she's like, Trinity. You know, they. They definitely broke the law, girl. Like. And I'm like, yeah.

B (90:58)

And something that I want to mention, too, is, you know, the. The thoughts that you are having, they're all coming from a place of emotion and from what you've been through. So, like, all of these negative thoughts, they're causing you to have. The negative emotions that you felt from what happened to you were causing you to have negative thoughts, obviously, and to think these horrible thoughts about yourself and your life and making you seek that control. When it came to your food and every. Everything in between, like, it's all calls from the negative emotions that you were undergoing while in the military. And obviously, it takes a lot of time to heal and to get through these things. And it doesn't help that, like you said, when you finally had the courage to speak out, you still didn't get that validation. You still didn't get the. The people that did these horrible things to you, they didn't face the consequences. Nobody listened to you. It was almost like they took these six people's. The. The six people that were in power above you. They took their word over yours. And not only that, but it just was shut out. It wasn't.

A (92:05)

I was completely ostracized.

B (92:07)

It wasn't taken seriously. You didn't even have proper documentation. Like, there's so many different parts to it that I think it makes it hard for you to heal. Like, as much as someone can heal and do the self work on their own, it makes it hard when you feel like there's still doors that weren't fully closed.

A (92:24)

Yeah.

B (92:24)

Like you don't have the closure within yourself to know, okay, these people got what they deserved in the sense of even just the consequences of making someone feel uncomfortable in a position of work. And just in general, like, you didn't want that, you didn't ask for that. So it's just, I think that it can be really challenging to move on and feel that closure when you feel like you weren't even treated correctly and think and procedure wasn't followed as it should have been.

A (92:53)

And I easily googled it. I mean, where is it? I'm so. I'm so extra sometimes. I literally.

B (92:58)

You're fine.

A (92:59)

So I literally printed these out. It's literally a graph of like, service member made a complaint. You're the commander. Okay. You have 72 hours. You know, like it.

B (93:08)

Yeah.

A (93:09)

I found this on the Internet. I don't know what they just like. And so a lot of times I think that's where my healing needs to probably take the most place is just not. I. I don't take it personally in a sense of like, you know, oh, it was me. I think it just speaks to the system.

B (93:33)

Oh, absolutely.

A (93:34)

You know, and so it's like, okay, I know that it's that and, and that's why, you know, I didn't know what I wanted to do before I joined, but now I do, and I'm extremely passionate about it. I've worked as a victim advocate for the.

B (93:46)

That's I was going to say, too. It's almost like you didn't have a voice. You found your voice, you used it. It was almost taken away from you. But then it's like at that point, you have two options. You either stop there and you let it defeat you, or you take it even further and you don't shut up.

A (94:02)

I think that's me. Yuck.

B (94:03)

And I think that's. That's the way that you should go about it. Like, you're coming on here now you're speaking about it like you're. You became a victim advocate. Like, you're doing all these things to almost get justice and speak out about it in ways that you can't be stopped and where the only limitation now is going to be yourself.

A (94:21)

Yeah.

B (94:21)

So if you keep going, no one can really Stop you or shut you up. And it's your truth, it's your reality.

A (94:26)

Yeah.

B (94:27)

It shouldn't be something where you're questioning how bad was it really or was it not like it. It. That I think it affected you the way it did for a reason. Yes.

A (94:37)

Yes. And I. My best friend, Sydney, she, you know, I've. I've carried these around with me since, you know, I haven't even been out of the military a full year. Like January. I mean, July. Sorry, July 2023, was. I was no longer in the military. And I, you know, I'm very thankful. The VA has been amazing to me. I am a disabled veteran. I have 100 disability, and I really appreciate that. They validate all of my, you know, my. One of my doctors, you know, they had asked. It was like my first appointment at the va, and they were like, nope, we don't justify that. Your pain matters, and I'm going to do what I can for you. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Okay. Thank you. So I've had a really good experience with the va, so that's very. I'm very grateful for that. And it's crazy, too, because, you know, my partner, he's still in the military, and so working through just the. The everyday kind of triggers that I have. But we're moving to Texas, you know, so it feels good to kind of, you know, that's where I'll be going to grad school. And so it feels like a full circle moment of, this is where I started and this is where I'm going to end it. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't really get. And I'm really, really grateful that, you know, I even have the opportunity to do that and to. Yeah. To continue honoring my voice. And, you know, I'm still working on it.

B (96:08)

Yeah.

A (96:09)

But, yeah, I think what I would love to see out of this and what, you know, I've had a lot of people tell me, I would love to, you know, take legal action. I think there was a lot of things gone wrong that were just in, you know. Yeah.

B (96:23)

There's so many people that failed you.

A (96:25)

Yeah.

B (96:26)

Even after the fact.

A (96:27)

Yeah.

B (96:28)

At this point, they need to be taught in the nicest way for me to say it. They need to understand why their roles are so crucial and why it matters that they should have taken action within that 72 hours and everything else that you discussed. You know, and I. I think that obviously, I think legal action should be taken, but at the same time, I think that, like I said, it's good that you're using your voice as much as you can still.

A (97:00)

Yeah.

B (97:01)

Because it shouldn't be something that you just let it go and push it under the rug. Why should you have to do that? It's something that affected you emotionally, physically, mentally, in every way.

A (97:10)

Yeah.

B (97:10)

And you have the right to stand up for yourself.

A (97:13)

Yeah. And so a lot of it has been grieving, you know, grieving that person. I once was, you know, I was really excited to join, you know, the military and to. To work hard and meet people and just to have it go so horribly wrong and in so many different ways. All the layers.

B (97:30)

And you're not the only one that this has happened to.

A (97:32)

No. And it's. It makes me so sad. And a lot of people, you know, they don't have that support and. Yeah. So.

B (97:41)

Or even strength where you are now, like, the strength to speak out about it.

A (97:45)

Yeah.

B (97:46)

You know, whether it is something bigger like this, like a platform or even to a therapist.

A (97:51)

Yeah.

B (97:52)

You know, they. People don't. They're not there yet in their journey. So I think it. It's amazing that you are and that you're ready to almost take that next step within yourself, like, even if it takes time, you're like, okay, I'm ready to sit down and go through it and speak about it and see what else can be done at this point.

A (98:10)

Yeah. Yeah. And that's. It's crazy because I feel like the year, you know, I've done so much work in this, you know, almost year that I've been out, and it's just really funny. I actually had a dream that I was talking about it, and I was like, oh, let me just go watch YouTube. And then, you know, I've always, you know, watched you, and then I was like, let me just do. And then you were like, yeah. And I was like, okay, I had a dream about this. That's crazy.

B (98:36)

I love that, though.

A (98:37)

Yeah. All the. So I'm really leaning into my intuition, learning to trust my gut and to also use my voice to stand up, because I was always raised to stand up for those who can't for themselves and to, you know, if something's not right. Okay, let's. How can we make this do something about it? Right. Yeah. And so the thing is, too, it.

B (99:04)

Has to stop somewhere, and there has to. The only way that it stops is by people standing up. And you have to be a voice for someone. If you're not going to be a boy, you know what I mean, like, you can be a voice for yourself and you can be a voice for so many others.

A (99:18)

Yeah, yeah. So I would just say that I'm still working on my anger towards all these people. Just for sure. It's incredibly disappointed.

B (99:26)

Yeah.

A (99:26)

You know, but I think it's also just one last thing. I worked with, you know, I talked to a lot about that plastic surgeon that I worked with, but I also worked with a female and she, she caused me a lot of pain as well. I remember she looked me in the face and was like, you're a failure. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, so like, keep that in mind when I'm going through all this and to have somebody call me a failure and then to also. I remember there was this one time where she, you know, we had this. We were doing a minor procedure and there was a young man. It was like the child of one of the, like an officer or something that she knew, and she was talking to him. It was like, if you go enlisted, that's the stupidest thing you could do. And I'm standing in the corner. Like, for some people, this is their only way out. And I remember after I was sitting at my desk, you know, I was charting and she, she told me, hey, you know, I know that upset you, but you should read a self help book. I'm like, girl, you're so far from reality. And I think that that was also disappointing because when I was going through all this, I was also hearing rhetoric like that of like, what's the stupidest thing you could do? And just to be invalidated yet again on that level. So.

B (100:46)

Right.

A (100:46)

But I'm here and I'm really proud of myself.

B (100:49)

You should be. And you did a great job, honestly. And like I said, I can't express it enough. I tell everybody this, you know, it starts and it stops, like, with yourself. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like you coming on here says so much about where you are in your journey and it shows that you're ready to just like, put an end to the treatment that you've received.

A (101:15)

Yeah.

B (101:16)

And you're not, you know, you're no longer going to allow that to happen. Like, you're not going to let others dictate if legal action is taken or not.

A (101:24)

Yeah.

B (101:25)

Or how long it's going to take. Like, you're putting your foot down and you're making the necessary actions and taking the steps that you want to take in your journey from this point forward.

A (101:35)

That's like, you know, hurt people, hurt People. But healed people can help heal others. Exactly. I would like to be a part of that.

B (101:42)

Absolutely. You know, and I mean, I don't know if you. Did you see my other episode? I'm a girl that was sexually harassed in the military.

A (101:48)

I saw a little bit of it, but I. Because that's just because I was like, I don't want her story to, like.

B (101:53)

Well, that's just like an example, though. Like, you know, there. There's overlap in everything, and there's so many people that have gone through similar things where they've been made to feel so uncomfortable in a position where they were excited to go into something.

A (102:10)

Yeah.

B (102:11)

And I think that it's really unfortunate that as women, we could be viewed as weak or, like, we aren't as powerful in certain ways. And it's really unfortunate because you go into something, like you said, excited and hopeful and, like, you're starting a new journey just for it to be stomped on. And then you just feel completely defeated before you can even allow that excitement to take over. And it's really sad and it's unfortunate. And, you know, whether it's in the military or in another job position, so many people are. Are left feeling that way, and it's not fair. And it needs to be stopped, and it needs to be taken more seriously, because if it isn't taken seriously, then there's never going to be a change. And the fact that, like, why is there even actions in a handbook if people aren't going to follow them?

A (103:03)

Yes.

B (103:04)

So.

A (103:04)

And I think that it's really unfortunate, too. And, you know, we all have these biases of, you know, oh, that's a. That's a woman. She'll help me, too. All of my leadership was women.

B (103:13)

Right.

A (103:13)

Yeah. So, you know, I think that was just another cruel lesson of, like.

B (103:17)

Because at that point, too, I think it comes down to. What's it called? Seniority.

A (103:22)

Yeah.

B (103:22)

Like, you know what I mean? Like, how long people have been there, and then they have their backs and not your back. You're a newbie. You're young. What do you know? You know, and it's like, oh, she's young, she's weak. We can break her. We can sweep her under the rug. She'll let it go because she'll realize that if none of us take it seriously, she's just gonna have to stop.

A (103:39)

Yeah.

B (103:40)

But that's not the case. No stopping. And you shouldn't, because like I said, you're. Your perception is your reality. And not only that, like I said, as A woman, whether you're at a coffee shop, whether you're at your job or in the military or anywhere walking around, if somebody makes you feel uncomfortable, that's not right. It doesn't matter if they touch you or if they don't. Like, no one should make you feel uncomfortable or like they're coming in your space or in your bubble. And if they do, you have the right to say, get out and stay out and you. And from there you can do whatever you want. Like, you can take action if you want to take action, you should be able to have a voice and say, if somebody made you feel uncomfortable and that person has consequences. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. There, there shouldn't be. No, obviously with anything there's a line of severity of like whether somebody's making a comment or whether somebody's full on pinning you down and doing the worst, you know, but neither one is right. Like, obviously there's a lot. There's a severity line, but like they're.

A (104:44)

Between is just as.

B (104:45)

You know what I mean? Any of it is wrong. You should never feel, you should never be questioning in your head, well, is it wrong enough for me to go forward about this? Like, absolutely.

A (104:54)

Yeah. Especially, you know, with that layer of like, I could never quit my job. I could not separate myself from it. So just to be, you know, continually reintroduced to it.

B (105:02)

Well, even the mental health aspect, like the fact that you didn't feel like you could go and get the help and get the, and get diagnosed with what you were going through with because of that fear of losing your position or losing your job or looking weak or.

A (105:16)

And they were explicit about that. You know, I'm not going to diagnose this with you because.

B (105:20)

Right. And I'm like, it's almost like, what.

A (105:22)

Consciousness do you have to do no harm if you're perpetuating the harm?

B (105:26)

And that's the thing. It's almost like saying, stay where you are in misery within your own mind.

A (105:32)

Don't get worse.

B (105:32)

Right. Just so that you can not lose your job, position. And it's just really unfortunate how mental health isn't taken more seriously. Because I, I mean, mental health is. It's, you know, people in their lives because of it. So it's.

A (105:50)

Right.

B (105:50)

And they do go hand in hand. Physical, mental, everything.

A (105:53)

Yes.

B (105:53)

And that's why a part of healing it, it will take a toll. Stress takes a huge toll on your physical health and it's, it's horrible. And that's why all of it, when it comes to your healing journey is equally as important, and you kind of have to face it all. And it's hard, and it takes time and it's not easy, but they really all do go together. And it's just. It's crazy. It really is, because I have no.

A (106:15)

Other word for it. It's just like.

B (106:16)

But it's. I don't think people realize how real that is, that, like. Like what is happening mentally inside of you, it literally can come out physically.

A (106:26)

That's. Okay. So I'm just gonna say this. There's a book by Bessel van der Kolk. It's called the Body Keeps the Score. And, yeah, I've lived that. You know, like you said, we. You know, we might not consciously remember the pain, but our body does, and it's. It's stored.

B (106:45)

Yes.

A (106:45)

That's why it's like my jaw. You know, I've just. Just, you know, it's. It's directly correlated.

B (106:49)

But you. You do have the power to heal yourself. Yes, absolutely. It'll take. It does take time. I'm not saying it's going to be overnight, but you have the power to do that. And like I said, I genuinely believe by speaking your voice and giving your voice back to yourself.

A (107:07)

Yeah.

B (107:08)

And working through that trauma and facing it, which isn't always easy, but. But doing that and kind of accepting it, but also getting through it and accepting also, like, where you are now and how much stronger you are now. You do have the power to heal yourself, and you will, because, like, our brains and our mind is so much more powerful than we can even realize. Like, we have the control to change our reality and to change who we are and, you know, walk in this new way of being, and that's. Yeah, I believe you'll heal yourself.

A (107:43)

Honestly, I know it's really crazy just to be here and then, you know, that younger version of myself that, you know, I just. I give her so many hugs a day because, you know, she deserved it.

B (107:53)

Well, look at it this way, too. You know, while. Yes, it's sad to look back and think, like, wow, I was so excited going into this, and now here's where I am now. But that girl, then, who didn't have those experiences, she might not have had the courage to sit down on a podcast and speak her life and speak her truth. So it's like. I mean, and obviously that's never to say that anything that happens to us, we deserve it in any way, shape, or form, or that it.

A (108:20)

But there's a purpose for the pain.

B (108:22)

Yes. And there's a fine line between, like, you know, the whole thing of, oh, like, everything is. That happens to you is meant to happen.

A (108:28)

Yes.

B (108:29)

Maybe not the horrible stuff. I don't always agree with that exact statement, but at the though, right. At the same time, it kind of does. It should go to show you, like. Whereas if you look at it, all of the stuff that happened to you is horrible and shitty. At least now you're at a place where you have built this strength for yourself, where you have this voice to sit down to a stranger and on a platform and be like, here's my truth. Here's what happened, and I'm gonna own it. And now it's almost like. Like you're on your healing journey and your. Your journey to opening up and standing your ground now, and that's what matters. That's.

A (109:10)

Here's to vulnerability.

B (109:11)

Yes. And you. Seriously, you did such an incredible job. Of course I. And I give you so much. You should. I give you so much, so much props to you, really, for being able to come on here and do this and open up, especially when you've spent so many years being invalidated. It. It shows a lot of courage and strength and vulnerability and being able to sit down and being like, no, Even though none of you guys validated me, I'm gonna still, you know, speak my truth and. And open up and. And that takes a lot. So great job.

A (109:40)

Thank you. No, I had a. I had a blast. Good.

B (109:43)

And thank you for wanting to come on here and share it. I appreciate it so much.

A (109:47)

Watched all your. Yeah, I'm obsessed, so. Yes.

B (109:49)

No, you did great.