216: Weird Here to Help: Full Shamans Only & The Language of Dance

Summary

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We're Here to Help

Episode 216: Weird Here to Help – Full Shamans Only & The Language of Dance

October 10, 2025 | Hosted by Jake Johnson & Gareth Reynolds, featuring Steve Berg & Eric Edelstein

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Episode Overview

This "Weird Here to Help" spin-off dives into the stranger side of advice-giving, with Jake Johnson and Gareth Reynolds bringing in Steve Berg and Eric Edelstein to field listener questions that veer into the paranormal, obtuse, or just delightfully odd. In this special episode, two memorable callers arrive: Isabel, facing a dilemma with her shaman father’s bull-sacrifice ceremony, and Kelsey, wanting to break up with her dance therapist. Throughout, the hosts trade good-natured ribbing, heartfelt anecdotes, and a willingness to seriously consider (and sometimes seriously riff on) each weird situation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Spinoff Introduction: Setting the Tone

• "Weird Here to Help" is introduced as a safe space for unusually strange problems.
• Hosts joke about their own limits:

  “Jake and I would not be suited to handle any of the calls on this show. They are certainly different.” — Jesse Thurston (01:26)

• Eric Edelstein and Steve Berg are framed as true connoisseurs of the odd and supernatural.

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2. Personal Anecdotes: Past Weddings & Modern Day Spirituality

Time: ~03:05–10:30

• Jake and Eric reminisce about Eric officiating Steve’s wedding at the Burbank Moose Lodge, the affordable quirks of LA venues, and the influence of David Lynch.

  “You put that Lynch magic into the world, it’s going to come back. It’s got paid dividends, Eric.” — Jake Johnson (04:58)

• Discussion about celebrity encounters (meeting David Lynch), music taste (Barry Manilow, Kenny Rogers), and goals for simple living and downsizing their book collections.
• Steve describes trying to live simply and letting go of his collection of UFO and occult books:

  “I got rid of a lot of, like, high strange occult books... I already had the information absorbed. It’s in my bones.” — Steve Berg (10:13)

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3. Caller #1: Isabel from Boston — Shamanic Initiation & the Ethics of Ritual

Time: 14:33–34:17

The Dilemma

• Isabel’s father is training to become a shaman in a South American rite, which will culminate in a multi-day festival including a bull sacrifice. Isabel, a lifelong vegetarian and medical student, feels unable to witness the sacrifice but wants to find a meaningful way to honor her father’s achievement.

Host Discussion and Advice

• Hosts probe the situation:
  • Is the ceremony rooted in indigenous culture? (Yes—her father is being accepted into a Native South American community.)
  • “Why the hell does the bull have to suffer for this white guy to be a shaman out the gate?” — Gareth (20:27)
• The hosts distinguish between respecting cultural tradition vs. cultural appropriation.
• Both validate Isabel’s discomfort and support her seeking an alternative.

Solutions & Memorable Suggestions

• Nature-Based Bonding:

  “If like, I had a daughter... and they were like, ‘I can’t be here for this. But what we’re going to do is...go by the Madison river and rent a cabin and fly fish all weekend, connect with nature...’ That’s a bond that’s hard to break.” — Jake (23:07)

• Alternative Celebrations: Suggestions range from a "graduation party" to a father-daughter adventure such as hiking, camping, or building bows and arrows together.
• Invite to Podcast:

  “What if I bring you onto a very buzzed about growing podcast for you to talk about your journey into shama, and we talk to you and your dad for 10, 15 minutes here?” — Eric Edelstein (25:51)

• Hosts highlight the values of both honoring the tradition (if possible) and following personal, ethical boundaries.

Notable Quotes

• “Morally, I don’t have an issue with the idea of killing a cow... I just don’t want to be there for it.” — Isabel (22:35)
• “Sometimes beauty is pain. And I think it paid off, Eric.” — Jake (09:12), on sacrificing comfort for something meaningful.
• Advice on assertiveness and boundaries, with invitations for ongoing follow-up:

  “You sound like a pretty young person... your dad’s probably fairly youngish... So, I would say, an added thing would be, you both trying something for the first time... develop a new skill together.” — Jake (25:06)

• “Detach with love.” — recurring advice mantra

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4. Caller #2: Kelsey from Chicago — Breaking Up with a Dance Therapist

Time: 36:49–58:53

The Dilemma

• Kelsey enjoys but feels drained by her dance therapist, who blurs professional lines by oversharing and treating sessions like friendly gossip.
• She wants to “break up” but feels guilt doing so.

Host Discussion and Advice

• The hosts empathize deeply, sharing their own stories of paying the “empath tax” and having difficulty with confrontation.

  “There are certain people I know I’m gonna have to take an Epson bath and really blast some obscure Neil Young stuff to feel better.” — Gareth (42:41)

• Both validate her right to prioritize her needs (and her $30 copay!).

Solutions & Memorable Suggestions

• Gentle Honesty: Frame it as a graduation:

  “We got so much out of this dance therapy. We are now able to graduate from it.” — Gareth (45:19)

• In-Person Breakup: Suggests telling her therapist in person at the end of a final session (and then, possibly, dancing out the door).
• Detach with Love:

  “If you keep that, that mantra in your head of ‘I’m detaching with love’, I don’t think you can go wrong.” — Jake (49:46)

• Dance Out the Emotions: Entertaining the idea of making this an actual dance break-up, with humor (“What if right after, you just dance out the door?” — Gareth, 47:34).
• Unconventional Music Choices: To distract or amuse, joking about choosing aggressively bad music (Smash Mouth, Limp Bizkit) for the last session.
• Song Recommendations:

  “If you have nothing, I’d recommend maybe a ‘Father Figure’ by George Michael, which is a great song.” — Jake (54:51)
  “Carole King: ‘Cause it’s too late, baby, now it’s too late...’” — Gareth (55:13)

Notable Quotes

• “This person is draining your energy. And, yeah, it’s a loaded term, but energy vampires are very real.” — Gareth (42:41)
• “The more I hear about this therapist, the more I feel like, take any guilt, ball it up into a little wad and throw it to planet Saturn.” — Jake (53:53)
• “Let your body do the talking... Let the language of dance.” — Jake (56:11)
• “Perhaps this is an invitation for you to take this giant step toward standing up for yourself and how you want to be treated.” — Gareth (47:53)

Final Encouragements

• Both hosts invite Kelsey to update the show after she makes her move.
• Emphasis on self-care and setting boundaries, delivered with their characteristic warmth and humor:

  “You got two giant guys that have your back anytime, anywhere.” — Gareth (58:35)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Boundaries:

  “For years, it was the magic of yes, saying yes. And now for me, I’ve really found the magic of no and not feeling resentful.” — Gareth (47:53)

• Joking About Boston Tours as an Alternative Ritual:

  “Take him on like a trip by Ben Affleck and Matt Damon’s house. I’m kidding. I’m sorry.” — Jake (31:01)

• The Language of Dance:

  “Well, dance is a language, you know, it’s a language.” — Jake (51:38)

• Final, Affirming Send-off:

  “You know, you’re on our team... you just joined a gang. Again, light here.” — Jake (58:21)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Spin-off Framing & Personal Bits: 01:26–10:30
• Caller #1 (Isabel, Shamanic Dilemma): 14:33–34:17
  • Dilemma Introduction: 14:33
  • Hosts probe indigenous authenticity: 18:06
  • Alternative celebration brainstorming: 23:07, 25:06, 25:51
  • Invite to future episode: 25:51, 27:51
• Caller #2 (Kelsey, Dance Therapist): 36:49–58:53
  • Dilemma Introduction: 39:10
  • Discussion of boundaries/energy vampires: 42:20, 42:41
  • Break-up advice and dance exit jokes: 45:19, 47:34, 51:11
  • Music recommendations: 54:51, 55:13
  • Wrap-up and encouragement: 58:11–58:53

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode is rich in humor, warmth, and earnest empathy. The hosts are playful but deeply respectful, especially when discussing other cultures and listeners’ emotions. They combine practical advice with the comedic “weirdness” their listeners expect, making even strange problems feel relatable and valid.

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In summary:
This episode blends heartfelt listening, quirky stories, and genuinely thoughtful advice, helping callers honor both themselves and their loved ones—even when the solutions involve sacred bulls or a cathartic dance goodbye. The hosts encourage personal boundaries, creative problem-solving, self-care, and above all, having a little fun even when life gets weird.

Transcript

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is a headgun podcast.

[Jake Johnson]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Jake Johnson]

Wow, impressive. Let me T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nice.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jake Johnson]

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[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Jake Johnson]

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[Jesse Thurston]

All right, welcome. Not We're Here to help Weird. Here to help the spin off that America has fallen in love with. Hosted by Steve Berg and Eric Edelstein. You know, we just thought we would maybe weigh in real quick just to remind people what this show is. This show is hosted by two sweethearts, very sweet gentlemen who often find the odd interesting. And here's how we know this is a good spinoff. Jake and I would not be suited to handle any. Any of the calls on this show. They are certainly different. Um, but also, I really think we're finding the. The connection between this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What.

[Jesse Thurston]

What Jake and I do and. And what Steve and Eric do. If you have any problems that you think are too strange for Jake and I to handle, email the show as always, and. And enjoy. Without further ado. Although there is a little more ado because they're about to jump in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ladies and gentlemen, by popular demand, Weird here to help. Do you have something a bit obtuse, paranormal or crazy? Something other people laugh at? Well, friend, you're home. Welcome to Weird, here to help with Steve Berg and Eric Edelstein. Steve, Eric. We're back. We're back.

[Jake Johnson]

God, you know, that's. By the way, you do such a great intro for my other podcast, High Streams. Eric does the intro and like, wow. First, I don't know how Much, if I've ever told you this. I get so many compliments on that intro, and there's been quite a few people going, is that Eric Edelstein from Twin Peaks? I'm like. Because I get a lot of Twin Peaks fans listening to my show, and I'm like, yeah. They're like, how did you get him? I'm like, he's my homeboy. Membership has its privileges.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You married? Me, I married. There's two people in the world that can say that. My wife and you. When it came down to officiating my wedding at the Burbank Moose Lodge, character actor budget, it was $900, and I just had to join the moose, which was amazing. But you officiated my wedding, Steve, lest people ever think that we're faking this for some Hollywood look.

[Jake Johnson]

And, you know, I had to improvise. You know, it was not, like you said, the most, you know, perfect conditions. The microphone didn't work, so I had. I had to go. I had to raw dog it. But I think it went well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But, boy, you nailed it. It was a highlight. You just brought us in, and Jake Johnson gave an incredible, heartfelt speech. It was a beautiful time, Steve, and it felt incredible having you up there to shepherd me into the marriage flock.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I will tell you, I have been to a lot of weddings, and that was by far the greatest location of all time. It could not have been more you, either.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, and that's a tribute to Jess, because when my buddy Tom called me, he's like, hey, I'm gonna go see Jimmy Angel. He's this rock star that was signed on Mafia record labels in the 60s at the Burbank Moose Lodge. And my mind immediately went, boy, that sounds like a good wedding venue at a very affordable price. And sure enough, all I had to do was join the Burbank Order of Mooses, and it was $900. And then Jess transformed it. And then, hilariously, our secret theme was if David lynch directed a Mafia movie, and then about two months later, ended up sneaking my way into Twin Peaks. And was all kind of that Lynchian magic even just for the wedding?

[Jake Johnson]

Yep, yep. You put that lynch magic into the world, it's going to come back. It's got paid dividends, Eric.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, and how lucky am I that I got to be there when the great Steve Berg, who I feel has an understanding of David lynch parallel beyond anyone else, got to meet David Lynch? That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, it was amazing. You know, why not Share the. We'll make the abridged version. Eric and I got invited, I think, with Lynn, right? I had just done the TM education or the program, whatever, and we got invited to this, like, fancy Beverly Hills, like, get together at this, like, mansion. Eric and I and the ladies, she's like, you know, well, you can meet David Lynch. I'm like, oh, my God. And so Eric and I, we. We look great. We have, like, sport coats on. Like, you know, we're looking good. I remember we were. We were outside of the venue, like, banging, cigarette, Ben Foster, like, I was so nervous. Eric was calm as it could not have been more calm. I was like, honestly, pretty much having a panic attack. Then Lynn waves us over, and I freak out. And you, as such a good friend, kind of put your hand on me and ushered me over, ushered both of us over to David lynch. And we met him. I feel like I blacked out. I'm not even sure if I said anything, but he put his hand on my shoulder as one of the. I've never been so starstruck in my life. Like, you know, he's. He's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, he lit up when he saw you. He had an innate w. Way of. Of reading people and knowing he knew exactly the greatness of your soul. Oh, and I remember him patting you on the back and lighting up and getting a big kick out of you. And it had been my mission to get you two to meet. And I'm so happy that it happened.

[Jake Johnson]

It was a treasure. You and I have had some. We've had a lot of highlight moments. A lot of highlight. You, You. You have been there for Eric. I want to mention something to you that I'm excited about right now. It's Barry Manilow.

[Jesse Thurston]

What?

[Jake Johnson]

There is a song. It was written for the movie Foul Play with Chevy Chase and Goldie Hawn. It's a great movie, but it's called I'm Ready to Take a Chance Again. And I want you at some point later today to play that song at an unreasonable decibel and tell me if that song doesn't move you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, Steve, I'm in. Because there's so many people in my life you've gotten me hip to, and I have waves of grat. Like Brian Jonestown Massacre, Kenny Rogers. The Kenny Rogers. I had no clue. And you took it to another level. Also, I will say this. Barry Manilow is playing the Westgate Casino in Las Vegas regularly. Who played there, Steve? Oh, a little guy named Elvis Aaron Presley. Oh, can you imagine? You and I Will say for the pod, going to see Barry Manilow live in Vegas where Elvis had his residency. God, I do this.

[Jake Johnson]

I would. I mean, look, you. And I thought, Bill Shatner, William Shatner.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Play prog rock. Ponder the mystery.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

At the Canyon Club, Eric.

[Jake Johnson]

I do. And I could also remember that that was the most red wine I've. Cheap red wine I've ever drank in my life. You remember we got. I got. So we went to Burger King twice. Remember that? We went before the concert. We went two different drive throughs. Yeah, both Burger King.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It was great. And to see him at the Canyon Club, which is a lot of times where you see legacy bands, cover bands, Tom Sandoval. No, on this night, we got to see William Shatner do a prog rock experiment. Ponder the mystery.

[Jake Johnson]

It was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What do we do? The great beyond.

[Jake Johnson]

It was bananas. Bananas. And we were drinking warm red wine all night.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God, I miss it. Have you seen Shatner pop up on Instagram lately? He's anti polyester.

[Jesse Thurston]

Why?

[Gareth Reynolds]

When I started wearing it, I realized you can't breathe. It can't breathe, Steve. It comes from oil. So I began wearing all cotton, linen, bamboo. I won't do polyester anymore. And so he's anti polyester. And I think I'm joining him on that path.

[Jake Johnson]

I mean, I don't think I've ever worn polyester. That's not like a. That's a tough fabric to find for men, isn't it? Or is that common? Am I not aware it was polyester? There you go. But you know what? Sometimes beauty is pain. And I think it paid off. Eric, you know, sometimes you have to do things to look beautiful.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And you did.

[Jake Johnson]

And it paid off. And it's on record forever for everyone to join. Folks, if you're listening right now, I put it on pause. Go look up Eric on the lowdown. Premiere and drink in this perfect 10. I'm telling you, it is, you know, like, man. I mean, I like. I. You know, like, it's. I'm like, man, my. My buddy is handsome as can be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bless you. But I can't hold it wearing that hat. Your calend. Are you kidding me? Like you're smoldering, Steve.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, we're not here to butter each other.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're gonna sell a lot of units.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, you know, look, I. I need a Montana cabin, so let's see what happens. Eric, how about your big goal? No, it's not. I always thought it was a second home. My big goal is to really just to Maintain a lifestyle where I can eat good food and, like, you know, have a garden. That's it. I'm a. I'm a simple man. I'm. Less is more. I'm. I'm shedding my material goods. I'm trying to. I want to live a very simple life, Eric. Very simple.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love that.

[Jake Johnson]

Right. Simplicity.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are you getting rid of?

[Jake Johnson]

I got rid of half my books. Like, a lot of ufo Bigfoot books I just didn't need anymore, and I'm not gonna reference them anymore because I'm not doing that kind of research per se. But, yeah, I got rid of a lot of, like, high strange occult books and stuff like that. I just didn't need them anymore. I already had the information absorbed. It's in my bones.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, and Steve, I think for going forward, it's exciting for people to see because people that maybe don't know you or your ethos, that were like, oh, Steve believes in aliens. Steve believes in ghosts. You are actually kind of a skeptic on a lot of it. You are so studied at an expert level, but there's not a lot of this stuff you actually believe in. Your expert study of this has allowed you to see a lot of the flaws in some of these theories and conjectures.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And sometimes I feel like I'm a little bit of a downer to people who have, like, a mild interest in this stuff, because I'm like, look, I will say I think there's something to it. I just don't think. Like, I'm wildly skeptical of people who say they know what this stuff is. I, like, no one knows if it's even real, but the stories are amazing. That's all I really care about. Eric, I have a question for you, please. Are you ready to take some callers from people who have some problems that may be a little esoteric and angular?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm so excited, Steve. I'm so excited.

[Jake Johnson]

Let's meet some new friends. What do you say, pal?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, I'm in.

[Gareth Reynolds (Ad reads)]

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[Jesse Thurston]

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[Gareth Reynolds (Ad reads)]

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[Jake Johnson]

Why?

[Gareth Reynolds (Ad reads)]

Because you owe to me a little rat Time to send me the money you owe me. My brother, the great Danny J and I do something for each other that to us it's sincere and it's sweet. We always send each other money as gifts and we do it randomly and we use Zell. We'll just every once in a while he'll get $7.50 from me with a big subject that says you deserve it. And even though he sends me money back, I know in his heart of hearts for a moment when he saw that $7.50 on a Tuesday morning at 7 before work, he thought my brother loves me. And sure, when he sends me less back, do I think my brother loves me less? Sure, maybe a little.

[Jesse Thurston]

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[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

C Dell.com for details caller hello, can you hear us?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Hi, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can hear you fantastically. What is your name and where are you from, friend?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Hello, my name is Isabel and I'm from Boston.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, Isabel from Boston.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We love Boston. So, Isabel, we're so honored that you entrusted us to help you today. What is going on?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay, so I am calling because the situation is my father has been training for many years to be a shaman. And this is, like, a spiritual journey that he has been doing for, like, my entire life. And he is approaching his. The end of his training. So he's getting ready for his shaman initiation, which is very exciting, Very proud of him. He's worked very hard on this. And.

The.

So the summer initiation doesn't have a set date yet, but we do know that it will involve, like, a multiple day festival that will feature a bowl sacrifice.

[Jake Johnson]

Mm.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Which is not something that I am, like, personally, like, emotionally capable of participating in just due to the whole, like, bowl sacrifice of it all.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

But he's like, he's so excited about this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

And this is like, like his moment, like, his biggest achievement that he's been working towards. And I want to support him and I want to, like, be there for him in this big moment, but I just can't do it. So every time he asks, I kind of, like, skirt around the issue and I'm like, oh, well, I'll think about it. So that's the background. So my question for you guys is I have been racking my brain trying to come up with a. Like a. Some sort of, like, creative, meaningful thing that I can do to, like, celebrate his accomplishment that doesn't involve full sacrifice.

[Jake Johnson]

Right. So just so for clarification on my end, you are. You need to be there. Right. Like, he really wants you there.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

He, like, really wants me there. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

And that's beautiful. I mean, when you should be honored to be invited.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

And I'm so honored. I'm.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

What a beautiful thing. You know, I'm. I'm not an expert on shamanism, but I definitely am aware probably, you know, more than the other person. So is Eric. I can tell you that right now. But, like, is. Okay, so, like, I'm breaking it down here. You do not want to be there during the actual sacrifice.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I do not want to be there during the actual sacrifice. I think that I would sustain psychic damage the likes of which I would not recover from.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you a vegetarian?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I am.

I'm a lifetime vegetarian. Lifelong vegetarian.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

There we go. There we go.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I am a medical student. I'M going to be a physician. So I'm really, like, more in the practice of, like, saving human lives, less, like, taking cow lives.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm with you on all that, sister. I'm an unlikely, unlikely vegetarian. I look like I'd kill the cow myself, but I'm with you on that. The first question, to me, the most important one, is your father indigenous?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

He's very, like, involved in that. Like, it is. It is part of that, like, community. Like, indigenous.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, but is he indigenous? Like, to me, it makes such a difference if it's part of someone's culture.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Anytime you delve into a white guy that's real into Native Americans, that's becoming a shaman, that's very, very different from indigenous culture and traditions to me. So kind of what I'm hearing through the lines is, is your dad is not indigenous, but very into the culture and perhaps accepted by it.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, I would say that that's a fair assessment.

[Jake Johnson]

Right. So it's basically, you know, down to brass tacks. Just kind of distilling it down. Like you. Are you thinking, like, I want to go to this ceremony, but I want to duck out for the sacrifice part? Is that kind of, like, your game plan?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I don't want to go, like, here. Here's the situation is it's in another country, so it would be, like, a big commitment. And he keeps emphasizing that, like, the sacrifice is only part of it. And there's all of this other amazing, like, really impactful stuff that's gonna happen.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

But he won't elaborate, which I think is a little suspicious. I feel bad because I wanna. I wanna celebrate him and his, you know, his accomplishments and, like, everything he's worked for. So I want. I'm looking for, like, another way that I can celebrate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, what is the other country? What country is the ceremony in?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I don't know if I'm at liberty to share.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, can you give me a continent?

[Jake Johnson]

South America.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. So it's a hoof from Boston.

[Jake Johnson]

I feel like. I feel like I have a. I have an idea of what's happening, potentially happening here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

See, I said that Steve Hoof, and it's a bull. So what? I. Out the gates. I just view these very differently. If someone is indigenous or from native culture or somebody embracing it as your father is. I have a friend that posted pictures of seal clubbing, and I am. Boy, do I love seals. They're like puppies. They look like my dog Chupy. And yet I completely celebrate my buddy's tribe. Because they had to club seals for centuries to eat, to live, to work. And again, I embrace their culture and their tradition.

[Jesse Thurston]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

When you're dealing with abs. Absolutely. When you're dealing with a white guy coming in and it's not his culture, then I view this differently, which I think you made that be an opportunity to view it differently as well. And I completely agree with you. I would be extremely traumatized watching a bull get sacrificed. Why the hell does the bull have to suffer for this white guy to be a shaman out the gate?

[Jake Johnson]

I will say to play the devil's advocate there, like, it could be very part of their culture. And a lot of times when they do sacrifices, just from the basic reading I've done, it is a way to honor the animal and honor the spirit of the animal. And they, you know, and a lot of times in rituals of all kinds, it doesn't matter what kind of it's on. Sacrifice of a living creature is part of it. It's may not. It may not be what we like. And we, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of things that we do in the US that people see as inhumane, such as have, like, SUVs and ruin the environment or have large refrigerators, blah, blah, blah. Could go on and on. However, I feel like in their cultural lens, this is not a negative thing. Like, just so you were saying of the seal clubbing, stuff like that. So we can take that out of the mix. However, you are wanting to find an alternative way to celebrate your father, right?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay, great. So now, Eric, let's start pitching some ideas of different ways to celebrate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I like this, but, Steve, out the gates couldn't. One more question. I don't mean to belabor this. Are the people that are doing the animal sacrifice, are they indigenous and he's coming into their culture?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

The person who's doing the sacrifice is my father.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. But the people overseeing it are. Are they native? Full. Okay, they are. That makes a big difference to me, Steve, than a bunch of white guys with ponytails.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. They're going to South America.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So he is being brought into their culture to honor it, which does make a giant difference to me, Stephen.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. So to not do it is. Is disrespectful. So, yeah, he's got to do it. And I. I'm. I'm actually like, look, I eat meat. So what's worse, Buying in a grocery store and killing myself. I think killing myself is a better move. However, I don't. I should, though.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I should hunt Anyway, I really like.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Morally, I don't have an issue with the idea of like killing a cow.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

You know, and they're gonna, I'm sure they're gonna do it like, quickly and effectively and then they're gonna have a great lunch the next day and that's, you know, that's fine. I don't want to be there for it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, nor should. You're an empath. I can already tell. And I recently was with somebody bitching about bullfighting while they ate a burger where I'm like, well, you're going to. Your mind's going to be blown when you hear where that burger came from.

[Jake Johnson]

Let me a couple of quick questions about your dad. Like, is he like an outdoorsy person? Like, I'm trying to think of, like, if there's like a separate, like, you know, like, long weekend, like, little getaway the two of you could do as a way to connect with nature. Right. Like, so for him, he does that. Like, I love fly fishing. Right. So if, if like, you know, I had a daughter or, you know, and they were like, hey, I can't be here for this. But what we're going to do is we're going to go to western Montana and we're going to go by the Madison river and rent a cabin and fly fish all weekend. Connect with nature. We're going to make some great meals. Like, I just think it's a. It's almost like, it's almost like, you know, like when you graduate from college, like, there's sometimes like a celebration and people have a party. Maybe it's a cake party. Maybe your parents take you to a cool place. This is like you doing for your father. He's almost like your child. So, like, I would find something in the natural world to go do with him. Maybe it's like a little guided, like, hiking trip that is a little out of your comfort zone. So you're both like experiencing something adventurous together.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

That's my great idea. Because I have been thinking like, maybe have like a party more on the lines of like a graduation party. But yeah, I think that that's a little bit less meaningful than just like having some like, quality father daughter time.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Out of nature.

[Jake Johnson]

I feel like most, I mean, especially since it's like, you know, it's like you could have like a graduation party, but it is for like, you know, shaman school. So it's like, I don't know if that like, is the, you know, like a cake party is the first thing I think of when you Graduate from shot school.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But, like, that's you, buddy.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm looking to catch a buck than the Lord. Honestly, if I was graduating from shaman school, I would want to rock his cake party. But I'm. I'm definitely unique on that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right? I would go to that. Are you kidding?

[Jake Johnson]

When I graduate from shaman school, I want a keg of IPA and a keg of modelo.

[Jesse Thurston]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then I want to hear what the Great Spirit has to say. Let it work through me.

[Jake Johnson]

Right, but so you're in the Boston area. Luckily. I mean, like, you are. You know, if you even make it convenient, you could go do a guided hiding trip in Vermont, Maine. You're all all over. New England is so unthinkably beautiful. And, like, I would say an added thing would be you both trying something for the first time. Maybe it's like they have these, like, workshops where you can, like, build your own bow and arrow and then learn how to shoot it. And it's like, almost like this art getaway, slash, learning how to do something new. And then you both develop a new skill together that you share. That's, like a bond that's hard to break. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Right. And then maybe we could, like, go before and I could, like, talk to him a little bit about his, like, shaman experience, how he's feeling about it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. I have a wee bit of an idea here of something very cool we could do with your dad. What if you told your dad, hey, you're a shaman now. You're going to need clients. What if I bring you onto a very buzzed about growing podcast for you to talk about your journey into Shama, and we talk to you and your dad for 10, 15 minutes here, because I would love to pick your dad's brain. I have many healers in my life. I can already tell from you, whoever raised you is a badass that I would like to spend some time with here in this machine. And if your dad is comfortable with it and you say, like, these guys have very good intentions, and we would love to hear about his journey and kind of allow you to be the proud daughter and allow your dad's message to get out with the world, and maybe it gives him a platform to start to really do some of the great work that has allowed him to embark on this journey. I'd love to meet him.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, Eric. Yeah.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I think that you guys would hit it off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, I know he would. Like, trust me. There's a whole other thing. I'd love to give up playing Bad guys and killers to just go down there, not kill a bull, but fully embrace this lifestyle. Because the more time I've spent around it, it just makes a hell of a lot more sense than this crazy world we live in now. It's so cool your dad's doing it, and maybe we can give him a little bit of a platform, get some clients and start helping people.

[Jake Johnson]

Honestly, I might go kill a boar or an animal this weekend just for the. Because I want to try it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm going to have a bunch of cashew cheese, sister. Okay, I'm kidding.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm kidding.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm going to come to Boston. We're going to find a great vegetarian restaurant. You and I, we're going to love it together. But seriously, what do you think about telling your dad? Like, I know these two very earnest giants that would love to hear about your journey to shamanism. We'd even love to hear about the bull and everything else about that weekend. And it can be like you were there with him through this podcast, and thousands of people are going to get to meet your dad.

[Jake Johnson]

Absolutely.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I think that. I think that he would. He could be interested in that. Are you guys envisioning that happening, like, right now?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not right now. After he does the ceremony. We don't want to talk to an almost ceremony. We want to talk to a real shaman and get him. Get his platform out there. Because I know your dad has wisdom to give all of us.

[Jake Johnson]

Now I am going to have to check his shaman paper if that makes notarized and everything. Look, I'm a stickler for the rules. Like, you know, anyone could just say they're a sh. How many white guys in. In Venice, Eric, have you are walking around saying they're shamans?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Too many. I've given money to too many in this life. Are you kidding?

[Jake Johnson]

Red locks. I mean, hey, man, I'm a shaman. Want to buy an eighth? No, dude, I don't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But, like, yes, I do. But I don't believe you're a shaman. But I think his dad, her dad has been accepted by a tribe and is going about this all the right way. I think she and I would probably maybe have a quibble with a bull, and that's not for us, but that is their tradition, so I embrace and support it, just like I embrace my friend with the seals, because it's a culture that's not mine, and. And there's no better way to honor it. And how dare people judge? So I think after your dad is a shaman, we would love to have him on and talk with him. Talk with you. And I know our listeners would be.

[Jake Johnson]

Fired up to me and so. And so, Isabel, to go back to the solve. Are you pretty. Do you feel like the. The kind of like adventure you. You both learn how to do something new out in the natural world together is what you'll go with in terms of like alternatives or do we need.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

To pitch where it is just a great.

No.

I mean, maybe we could put some ideas on like other things to include in the getaway. Yeah, like, I don't know if there are like, other aspects you could think of, but I think that was a great like right out of the gate.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, the bow and arrow.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

10 out of 10. We can make the bow and arrow.

[Jake Johnson]

It's something I'm looking into for my dad and I actually, actually, I'm not. I'm not even joking.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

That's why it came out activity.

[Jake Johnson]

But yeah, I don't know, like, I was like, I don't know. Your dad's like, you know, you know, you sound like a pretty young person. You're so. Your dad's probably fairly youngish and if he's going to be able to go to South America and do these things, I'm guessing he's a fairly in shape, you know, physically capable person.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, he could do like a hike camp situation.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I just, it's, you know, it's hard for me to pitch ideas without knowing you too well. Like, I don't know if you guys like fly fishing. That would be cool. Like, I love nature so much. I love camping. That is restorative. Those are the moments in my rocking chair on my porch that I'll be thinking about when I'm an old, old man. If I'm lucky enough to get there is I'll be thinking about the moments I spent in the natural world probably more than anything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is starting to feel like a really great solution. And I already kind of intuitively know your dad will have empathy for it. And it's a great way for you him to have a celebration again with his daughter that he's raised with all this love and empathy that doesn't want to be around a bull getting killed and other stuff.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I think that's a great idea. I might try to get my other sisters in on it. Have a little like sister's father trip. I think that he's gonna love this.

[Jake Johnson]

I think it'd be great too. I mean, like, or you could just go the total opposite way and like rent like a. You Know, get on some kind of Boston star tours and take them. Take them on. Take him on like a trip by Ben Affleck and Matt Damon's house. I'm kidding. I'm sorry.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, you can also do that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's sacred in its own way. Very, very sacred in its own way.

[Jake Johnson]

How about that, Ma?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sean, Robbie Williams improvised this. I think you and your dad can find answers. And then we also truly would love to have you and your dad on this show after he's officially a shaman. Ain't no half shaman stepping around here, but we would love to have him on and have you share your cool dad with the world. Yeah, we'd love to have you, Eric.

[Jake Johnson]

We're going.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I think that he would definitely be excited to share his semonic wisdom.

[Jake Johnson]

Tell him to bring the blade. He slices the. The. The cow's throat with. Please don't leave the blood on it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right. I do kind of. I want to see the blade. I admit it. I'm sorry.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, I mean, I kind of want you also now.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, also, I mean, Isabelle, you know, the, the. The. You know, like, if you, you know, like, like. The thing is, I will say before you take this other alternative route, I would do a. Some honest soul searching about trying something out of your comfort zone. Going to witness this, even though you don't like your. Your morals and ethics are not about killing an animal like that. However, seeing it from the side of this culture and honoring in that, just say, always keep that on the table because if you can find it in yourself to go and support, that's probably the ultimate. However, I do think some kind of natural world getaway is going to be a great alternative. I feel like you're. I feel like you have some good options here. Do you feel pretty good, Isabel?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, I'm feeling good. I think that I will do some soul searching. I have a little bit of time, so I'll definitely take it under consideration. And I think that if. If I really feel like I can't do it, then I think that then a little natural world getaway will be perfect.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I do think is such a different thing to hear that he's doing this with a tribe down there and if you can find yourself open to it and yeah, there might be other stuff you're uncomfortable with, but I know you could just leave for the boar sacrifice and you don't have to eat it. So you have time, meditate on it. We've got a couple paths. Either way, no matter what you do, we want to have you and your dad on here, because I think that is very cool. You're clearly very cool. And we'd love to give him a platform as he begins his path as a healer.

[Jake Johnson]

Love it.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yes.

Yes. I think that'd be awesome.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It is written.

[Jake Johnson]

All right, Isabella, please keep, you know, stay in touch with us. You know how to get in touch with us, and we'd love to have it back on and best of luck and do that soul searching.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Sister, thank you so much. Thank you for all of your help and your wisdom. You guys rock.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, you do, too. Good luck and thanks for being a doctor, taking care of us. I hope. I hope I've. Well, I hope I don't actually. Never mind. You know what I mean? Good. Good job.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She doesn't know what you mean either. No one does that. Oh, I hope you're a psychiatrist, because that's what we really need right now with this wonderful, large man. Isabelle, it was an honor you stuck with us. To be continued. And we look forward to meeting you and your dad in the machine here on Weird. Here to help. Yes.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Thank you so much. Talk to you guys soon.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bye, sister.

[Gareth Reynolds (Ad reads)]

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[Jake Johnson]

Hello. Hi. Hi. What is. I'm gonna ask you a couple questions. What is your name, my friend and what is your location?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

My name is Kelsey and my location is Chicago.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, we love Chicago. The city of broad shoulders.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, Kelsey, do you have a 503 area code?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I do. I'm from Portland originally.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ah, me too. What high school did you go to?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Oh, well, I'm actually from a suburb of Portland.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Which suburb?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Oh, Lake Oswego.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, of course. So you go to Lake Ridge. You go to Lake Oswego there?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, Lake Ridge.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, I know Lake Ridge. I believe Kevin Love went to Lake Ridge. I went to central Catholic commuting from Vancouver, Washington. So already we're northwest people. I'd like to ask you, Kelsey, just so we can get a little sense of you. Could I have? You're on a desert island. You can only take one movie, one album, one book. Kelsey from Lake Ridge high school, what would they be?

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, without thinking. Without thinking.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay. Movie bottoms book. Little women album. I'll go with Dance fever by Florence and the Machine.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay, great stuff. Get a sense of who you are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We love it. We love it.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

And so sorry, I don't mean to take up too much time, but I have to know this, otherwise I won't be able to go on with this. Deep dish pizza or Chicago thin crust, tavern style?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay, I love both. Deep dish. I think you definitely have to be in the mood for though. So if I'm just having pizza, I'd go tavern style.

[Jake Johnson]

That was the right answer, by the way. That was the right Answer. You're killing it. So far, Kelsey, well done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We feel like we know you. I love it. Yeah. Last time I had deep dish, there was a battle in my stomach afterward and I lost. It was. Yeah, it was antietam in my small intestine and. Oh, boy.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, defcon.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

You have to block off the calendar.

[Jake Johnson]

You get it?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You get it. Oh, we're already. This is great. We found common ground. We're pitching a tent. Steve.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, it's basically. Yeah, this is great, Kelsey. Now I'm to understand, and Eric as well, that you have an issue that you think my buddy and I could help you out with. Would you like to lay it upon us?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, Hope, hopefully. So I'll just make a long story short. The issue is I need help breaking up with my dance therapist.

[Jake Johnson]

Dance therapist, wow.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Can you. First off, because I'm not. I'm not aware of the dance therapy. I'm aware of music therapy and other kinds of therapy, but break down dance therapy for Eric and I. Would you.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Basically, it's like normal talk therapy. I, like, tell her about my issues for the first half, and then she puts on music and makes me dance around the room for the second half.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love this.

[Jake Johnson]

I love this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Steve, I think first of all, we're gonna give some good advice now, but I think you and I do need to do at least one dance therapy session. Cause this sounds amazing because, Kelsey, I don't know if you figured out. Steve and I are both huge live music people, and for me, music's my medicine. When I go to a concert, I feel filled up and healed and so much that is moving my body. So I guess the first natural question is, why do you want to break up with your dance therapist?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Well, so I actually have enjoyed it a lot. I accidentally started going, like, I did go to a normal therapist, and then she quit therapy. So she was like, oh, there's other therapists here. And then I didn't hear anything for like three months. And then all of a sudden I got a call that was like, hey, I have you on the schedule for dance therapy tomorrow at 9am So I was like, oh, okay. So I just started going. And she's really sweet. She's really great. I just feel like me and her aren't like we don't have a normal therapist patient relationship. I feel like we're more like friends. Like, I go in and we kind of like gossip and she tells me about her problems and there we go. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Kelsey, I have been here, been there with a Number of times I had a reflexologist, and God bless her, she was great. But after a while, she got a little too comfy for me. And then I started, like, talking to her about, like, her dating life, and I'm like, I'm literally paying you, like, 80 a session, so I. I totally know what you mean. There's a certain point where you just kind of like. Like, want it to be professional and not cross over into the friend zone. Is that. Is that kind of what the struggle is?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, totally. Like, yesterday, she told me all about her sister's divorce and then how her, like, childhood friend Melissa was super messy, inappropriate.

[Jake Johnson]

Eric, what are your thoughts on that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, well, dare I say that all three of us, perhaps often in this society have to pay the empath tax. Yeah. And it is so funny to me because I swear I will walk into a store and say, I'm just gonna keep this low key, buy the book, and then next thing, a checker will be telling me about their uncle dying that week. And like, yes. Yeah. Well, Kelsey, I think one. I think you're an empath, and I think you're somebody that people enjoy and feel comfortable telling their problems to. And I bet you have good solutions, which is great and awesome. And not enough people are like that. But the issue here is you're paying this person to help you, not the other way around.

[Jake Johnson]

There becomes a certain point where you start to feel like, hey, I'm being cheated and I'm paying money, and I'm not getting anything out of the service. In fact, the teacher who. Or the therapist who I'm paying is getting more of it than I am. And so I do. I do believe, like, when you are paying for a service, you should get what is advertised, and that is therapy and help as not. Not the other way around.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. So, yeah, you're leaving at a deficit. This person is draining your energy. And, yeah, it's a loaded term, but energy vampires are very real. There are certain people I know I'm gonna have to take an Epson bath and really blast some obscure Neil Young stuff to feel better. And right now, we're at a deficit with this person. So I think the other natural question is, how important is the friendship? Do you really want to save this friendship? And how delicately do we have to be in this breakup? Or is this someone's like. Like, this is a drain. I am just fine not seeing this person again. Chicago is one of our friendliest, greatest cities in the world. There's a lot of people I'd rather Be hanging out with.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess I don't need to have her as a friend. She's just so nice that I feel, like, so bad telling her I don't want to see her anymore.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, I hear you. I'm. I like, I think you're probably talking to two dudes who, like, understand the fear of, like, having confrontation that might disappoint someone. Not, not, not this confron. But just having that moment where you're disappointing people. I hate it. I personally struggle with that as well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think we bonded over that. Steve, we both want to make people happy. We do. Part of why we're here today. How much is she charging you for this dance therapy?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah, well, I get through insurance, but I have like a $30 copay, and I used to go bi weekly. But he was like, you're so much fun. You should come every week. So she convinced me to start going more.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, Griffin, this is hard.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ye. Yeah, I've had to break up with acupuncturists. Yeah, Took a weird, crazy turn during COVID It's a very real thing when people just start clinging too much and wanting your energy. So of course she wants you in there once a week. She's giving. You're giving her free therapy.

[Jake Johnson]

Right? And I may just say, Erica, I don't know how you feel. I think. I think I do. But, Kelsey, I think you're doing the right thing. I think you're doing the right thing. I think your instinct to break up and have a nice clean break is good. And I honestly don't think for this one, it's something that you really need to overthink. Okay, Eric, now let's start maybe pitching some ideas on how we can do this gently because Kelsey sounds like a sweet soul who doesn't like, oh, I can already tell not want to hurt people because I mean, like, I have plenty of friends who would be like, yeah, they have no problem firing people. They have no problem letting people go. For me, it, like, takes months off my life. So, Kelsey, let's figure out a way to do this gently so where you feel good about it it. And hopefully the therapist does as well.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So option one is like a delicate. And this isn't tied in with our journey through people, please. But a delicate. I don't want to say lie, but not presenting all the truth of, hey, we got so much out of this dance therapy. We are now able to graduate from it. Wow. I will never forget how in tune with my body and soul and spirit I am. I thank you so much for that.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

That.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But I do think I just need a regular therapist now. Now this person, I will guess, will then counter, you can come for free. Of course she'll say that because she's getting free therapy.

[Jake Johnson]

Right, right, right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's it with the delicate lie of. But I think if we start viewing this as it's not a breakup, this is a graduation. Yes, we are able to move on. We are so inclined with our body and everything else now. Also, I believe, Kelsey, if I'm hearing your subtext, you have a new project coming up that's going to take up a whole bunch of your time. You're writing a novel, you're doing your first ep, you're going to do a vipassana meditation where you're not allowed to talk to anyone for eight months. Already we're veering off perhaps the proper way to solve this. But this is a way to do it from two recovering people pleasers of like, there's a way to nudge this without hurting feelings and being like, you're an emotional goddamn vampire. I'm here to get weird. Weird. Wear a tutu and dance around and work through my stuff. And instead I'm working through your stuff and it's not working.

[Jake Johnson]

Now we kind of get. Now let's get down to the nitty gritty. It's like, obviously there's. You can do it in an email. I'm wondering if the best way to do it, it's kind of the scariest way, but is to go to the therapy session, dance your sweet little heart out. And then at the end when you're sweating, you're catching your breath, you're taking a little sip of water out of your. Your hydro flask desk, you say, wow, this is so great, Melissa. Just, you know, kind of using that as a phone name right now. But I. And then kind of go into your spiel about, like, I have, I can't even tell. Begin to tell you how much I've gotten out of this. Do that kind of spiel. And then I think also just talking about, like, I'm really trying to focus on budgeting my time for myself because time, like not having enough time is really starting to weigh on me. So I mean, like, what can somebody say to that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What if after that you just dance out the door?

[Jake Johnson]

I mean, walk away. If you do a soft shoe as you're leaving the dance studio, then you've reached epic godlike God tier performance. It doesn't get better than that. I think A little soft shoe in any situation is great always.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And well, let's say that the Buddhists are right and we're here in this incarnation to learn certain lessons. This becomes an opportunity for you to start to work on that people pleasing and boundaries. And I think for Steve and I, for years it was the magic of yes, saying yes. And now for me, I've really found the magic of no and not feeling resentful. And my therapist has an amazing expression of is it for fun and for free? So I tend to sometimes over help people. And my wife will come and say, is this for fun or for free? And I'm like, it truly is. Other times I'm like, like, no, it's not. I have a horrible psychic toll that's coming in and this isn't good. So perhaps this is an invitation for you to take this giant step toward standing up for yourself and how you want to be treated and how you want to have a therapy session go. And I think Steve's really onto something here of like very delicately in person saying it. Having to look that person in the eyes is powerful. Having to say no in person is powerful.

[Jake Johnson]

It's also.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yes, yes.

[Jake Johnson]

If you go back on emails or it's a phone call, then I feel like the per. The, the therapist is going to be like, I could still probably get her.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Back, you know, and they'll try be ready. Because someone like this, a clinger. Oh, it's not easy.

[Jake Johnson]

I do think there, there is a potential resistance where she may try to repit you. Like Eric said, like, well, you can come to class for free or take a break, but come back and it's. And to that I would say, like you say, sure, maybe down the road I'll change my mind and maybe you will. Maybe you'll end up missing it. However, I would say you just got to be firm. You have to be decisive when you walk into the dance studio that like, this is the last time I'm coming today. And I'm going to, as I'm going to quote my friend Eric here, I am going to detach with love.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Oh, I like.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. If you, if you keep that, that mantra in your head of I'm detaching with love, I don't think you can go wrong. Whatever you say will work. What are you thinking?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I love that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Yeah. Okay. I do like the idea of going and doing it in person and then having like a pretty normal session and then kind of dropping it on her at the end, right?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

So then we don't have time to, like, dance about. That's not wanting to go anymore.

[Jake Johnson]

It does help because she could have another. Another client right afterwards or, you know, obviously, like, people, you know, you. Your parking meter is about ready to run out. So that way it's not one of these things where you're, like, there for 45 minutes and, like, tears are being shed, you know, like, when I broke up with my reflexologist, it did not go well. So I'm trying to save you from that heartbreak because she was, like, crying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, can.

[Jake Johnson]

I fired an old agent one time, and she cried on the phone, so I'm obviously, you know, like. But so sorry.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Kelsey, this is Jesse here, the producer. You said something about you're afraid that she would make you dance about the breakup. Is that right? Yeah.

[Jesse Thurston]

So, like, how.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Jesse Thurston]

I wonder if there's something that we.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Could pitch around preparing yourself for that possibility. Maybe, like, there's some extra props that you would bring for the dance portion, just in case there is some extra time and she makes you do that.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I would scarves or something.

[Jake Johnson]

Or what if you. What if you had a. If you just had a glow stick and a pacifier and you, like, all of a sudden, you're like. It's like you're tripping your balls off. You're at an EDM concert. You know, like, that might just, like, confuse the therapist so much. Was like, yeah, you know what? Maybe I don't need you as a client either.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But breakup after the big dance, too. Then we don't need the cathartic final dance, which I'm imagining like the Dude's landlord and Big Lebowski.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, dance is a language, you know, is. It's a language. So maybe, like, the other issue is.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I don't always get to choose the music. Like, she chooses it a lot of the time.

[Jake Johnson]

What if you took the reins on this particular session? You go, you know, look, Melissa. Dr. Melissa. I'm kind of feeling like, you know, maybe we want to hear some smash mouth today or something.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You drive her away that way, you're on the worst music known to man.

[Jake Johnson]

Limp Bizkit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That'll do the trick, yo. Yes, then Limp Bizkit, B sides now, cuz, I could tell because we had, when we asked, early your desert island stuff. You got a really great taste in stuff. And first of all, she should be letting you run the music, and it's an insight into her ego and perhaps why you want to leave. What is she making you listen to? Steve and I, sweet as we are, we're both big snobs.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, yeah, yeah. What is she putting on? Is it like New agey kind of spa music?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

It really is so different every time. Like, sometimes it's like nature wind chimes and it's more of a sway. One time it was the Pirates of the Caribbean theme, and it was like I was marching around the room or it was Beyonce.

[Jake Johnson]

One time. I'm gonna fucking buy a plane ticket to Chicago and break up with this lady for you because this is appalling and this might change everything. I think maybe you need to go out there and just yell at her and say you have subjected me. Me to some awful ambient nature sounds. Pirates of the Caribbean sound.

[Gareth Reynolds]

See, here's my problem, Steve. Once you saw that, I'm like, hold on. That's kind of visionary. We might have tapped into a real true healer in the Windy City.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I may be flying out there to start. This is where it all goes awry.

[Jake Johnson]

This is where Eric and I drift off. Look, we're. We're. We're aligned. But look, we will. We will have different opinions. I. To me, like, if I'm going somewhere and I'm shelling out some cash, a couple bucks. Money is hard to come by, people. And someone puts on some wind chimes, I'm like, get me the out of this place, dude.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Also, Beyonce's a little. A little down the middle. It's a. It's a little easy, which is fine. And you should be able to pick it because music is essential to you. If I'm paying someone for therapy and God bless or putting on the Foo Fighters, I'm not into it. I'm not going to get what I need.

[Jake Johnson]

No, no, no, no, no. Look, Kelsey, the more I hear about this, this, this therapist, the more I feel like, take any guilt ball up into a little wad and throw it to planet Saturn. Okay. Because you have the way. I feel like she's conducting this in a pretty sketchy way, if you ask me. First off, like, look, I mean, like, I'm fine with some new ideas and dance therapy I believe in. I know music therapy works. My wife used to be a music therapist, and I'm sure there is a place for dance therapy. But first off, you're not getting anything out of it anymore, and now you're becoming the therapist to her and you're paying a copay of $30, and that ain't nothing. $30 is $30. That's a large pizza, a 2 liter, and maybe a side salad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So what would your ideal breakup. A breakup song be?

[Jake Johnson]

Great, great question, Great question.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, what's your all time favorite breakup song? What's gotten you through a breakup before?

[Jake Johnson]

If you have nothing, I'd recommend maybe a Father Figure by George Michael, which is a great song.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Song.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm being genuine.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I love that song.

[Jake Johnson]

It's beautiful.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's beautiful.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I can't think of a good breakup song right off the top of my head. The only thing that's coming to mind is that La La Land song by Demi Lovato that was like a Disney song.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't know it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know it. Oh, yeah, I'm a La La Land guy. I'd also, I think the. The foremost one is Carole King. Cause it's too late, baby, now it's too late. Did try to make it. Yeah, that's something inside. Yeah, that's a good throw. Throw on, throw on some Carol King. Because that one, it's like, God, we had a great time. Yeah. Relationship. It just isn't here anymore. Energy's changed now.

[Jake Johnson]

There is a song actually by. On the same album by George Michael, George Michael's Faith, which happens to be a. Probably. Jake might kill me, but Jake and I secretly have loved that album for a long time. And there's a song on side too, called, called Teacher, and it's a song Teacher. There are things that I don't want to learn. I mean, it's. That song is like on the nose. You could do a like, soft shoe out of there, kind of a slow motion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my gosh. You know, Let your body do the talking.

[Jake Johnson]

Let the language of dance.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay, I like it. I like it.

[Jake Johnson]

I mean, you're. I feel like it's okay to go big, have some fun with it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It.

[Jake Johnson]

Kelsey, what do you think? Do you think any of these ideas you might consider implementing?

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I. Yeah, I think a mix of all of them, definitely. I want to go in person. I want to say it at the end. Maybe like not at the very.

Well, I can't decide if I want.

To say it at the very, very end. So then I can, like, just get out of there. Or if I should give a little bit of time to, like, let us play a breakup song and dance to it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That could be so cathartic. It could be.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It could take a turn. But I promise we desperately would like to know how it goes down, how it happens. Steve and I are much less busy than Jake and Gareth and we're here to hear it.

[Jake Johnson]

I will say, and I Will say this. I love your idea of maybe you both therapize yourself with that George Michael song. I feel like. I know this is a very, like, maybe, you know, not typical angular way of doing it, Dr. Melissa, but I'd like to dance with you this song. One last dance for us.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

One more cup of coffee for the road, as they say.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

One last dance.

[Jake Johnson]

Do you know. So I would. I. We would love to hear how this goes. Would you be willing to come back on and regale us with the story of this? Because I. I can. I can sense in your voice you want this to happen, and I don't think you should wait. I think if you have. If you have a session planned for tomorrow, I think tomorrow is the day.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Okay. We're here with you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Our energy is.

[Jake Johnson]

It's next week. Okay, when is it next week? You got this, girl. I mean, like, no problem. I hear confidence in your voice. I hear conviction, and I hear somebody who wants to get out of a situation that they're not comfortable in anymore. You deserve better.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

I'm ready. I'm ready. This is great therapy. Better therapy than my dancing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, weird. Here to help.

[Jake Johnson]

Weird.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here to help.

[Jake Johnson]

Look, yeah, we're here for you, sister. You're from Portland. You live in Chicago. You like thin crust. You know, you're on our team. You know what? So, yeah, look for a windbreaker in the mail because you. You just joined a gang. A gang. Again, light here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You got two giant guys that have your back anytime, anywhere. No, you got. This is real.

[Jake Johnson]

Yay. Thank you so much, Kelsey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Update. It was an honor to meet you. And I'll see you Deuce Grill right off. Sandy. Portland, Oregon. Next time I'm home for Christmas. Christmas.

[Jake Johnson]

You got this, sister. Please, please let us know how it went.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Thank you, guys.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you.

[Gareth Reynolds (Ad reads)]

We're here to help is hosted by Jake Johnson and Gareth Reynolds. If you'd like to be on the show, please email us your question@ HelpfulPod Gmail.com. and if you want to watch video episodes of we're here to help, you can go to our patreon@patreon patreon.com heretohelpod to see our entire catalog.

[Jake Johnson]

We're here to help is produced by.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Rabbit Grimm Productions executive producers Rob Hollis.

[Jesse Thurston]

Jeff Porter, and Natalie Hollis.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Associate producer, Jesse Thurston.

[Jesse Thurston]

Editing, mix and master by Chris Faller. Theme song by Oliver Raleigh. The COVID artwork is by James Fosdike. Animations by Andrew Strelecki. And if you'd like to see Gareth do stand up on the road. Go to garethreynolds.com Remember, all the advice given on We're Here to Help is for entertainment purposes only, and all listeners should be adults and make their own decisions.

[Jake Johnson]

All video episodes of season one are.

[Caller (Isabel/Kelsey)]

Available now on Patreon, and season two video episodes will be available every Monday starting January 20th. Go to patreon.com heretohelpod.