238: Bush For Days & The Great Panty Caper (with Dax Shepard)

Summary

Podcast Summary

We're Here to Help

Episode 238: Bush For Days & The Great Panty Caper (with Dax Shepard)
Release date: December 10, 2025
Host: Jake Johnson
Guest Host: Dax Shepard
Sidekick: Natalie Hollis
Podcast Premise:
Jake Johnson and Gareth Reynolds host a comedic advice podcast where they take calls from listeners about wildly varied dilemmas. This episode features Dax Shepard (Armchair Expert), known for his candid humor, warmth, and sharp insights.

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Episode Overview

This episode features two standout advice calls—one about facing mixed-gender nudity in German saunas with your in-laws, and another about a dog's unfortunate obsession with eating his owner’s wife’s underwear. Between these calls, Jake and Dax banter about topics ranging from podcasting philosophy to cultural discomfort, nudity, masculinity, personal growth, and filmmaking. The episode closes with an intimate, insightful aftershow between Jake and Dax about creative life, their careers, and navigating adulthood.

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Main Themes & Topics

• Humility and Uncertainty in Life and Expertise
• Cultural Clashes over Nudity (German Saunas)
• Pets and Bizarre Domestic Challenges
• Creative Careers & Self-Assessment
• Authenticity, Vulnerability, and Growth

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Key Discussion Points and Notable Moments

1. The Wisdom and Humility of Podcasting

[01:00–09:58]

• Dax reflects on interviewing world experts, realizing there are rarely clear, “correct” answers in life or science.
• [02:32 Dax:] “My conclusion after all this is like, there’s no right, man. Most things in life, like a slam dunk, is like, it’s 65% right. We know so little about everything.”
• Both Dax and Jake discuss how exposure to powerful people (from Obama to Bill Gates) revealed that “the people running the world” are often not 100% sure either, which can be oddly comforting.
• Dax describes a new humility and less dogmatic approach to opinions after eight years of podcasting.
• They discuss hypervigilance and trauma bonding—being able to spot people with similar childhood experiences almost instantly.
• Analogy is made between nature’s self-organizing systems (bird flocks, subways, New York staircases) and society functioning without a “master controller.”

2. CALL #1: The Great German Sauna Challenge

[15:09–43:08]

Setup

• Caller: Heather, calling from Germany (normally lives in New Orleans), married to a German man.
• Issue: Handling mandatory mixed-gender, nude sauna time with her German in-laws.

Highlights

• Dax and Jake riff on German comfort with nudity, sharing personal anecdotes (Dax’s first teenage sauna in Germany: “I got bush for days, guys.” [18:31]).
• Heather explains: saunas are central to health and family bonding, particularly in her husband’s (East German, “FKK”) culture, and swimwear is banned. She’s deeply uncomfortable being nude with her in-laws and worries about “missing bonding time.”
• Laughter over whether seeing/being seen naked is worse; Jake and Dax agree seeing relatives naked is more scarring.
• Jake: “I can’t eat a sandwich and see a guy’s testicles. I won’t eat.” [28:44]
• Dax asks who’s pressuring her most—husband or in-laws? Heather says husband ("you're missing out on bonding").
• Heather’s real fear: not being able to forget seeing her in-laws naked, not shame over her own nudity.
• Action plan discussion ([32:42+]):
  • Dax advises: Take ownership, explain it's cultural baggage, ask to wear a towel—German family likely won’t care.
  • Jake’s escalating advice: “Don’t just go in naked. Go in with a little strut. Maybe do a little dance!”
  • Dax (realistically): “Amazing opportunity to go sit naked... you’ll look back one day and be mad if you missed out.”
  • Both agree the more embarrassed thing in German context is wearing the towel.
• Resolution ([41:48]): Heather promises she’ll try joining the naked sauna sessions for the rest of the visit, promising to send voice memos recounting her experience.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “You are a visitor to their family. When in Rome... Try it.” —Jake [39:40]
  • “Your fear is embarrassment. What’s funny is they’d be more embarrassed for you in a towel than naked.” —Dax [39:47]

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3. CALL #2: The Great Panty Caper

[43:17–66:32]

Setup

• Caller: Chris, 38, Florida.
• Issue: His dog, Oliver the doodle, has an uncontrollable habit of eating his wife Laura’s worn underwear, never Chris’s. Chris is both mortified and jealous (“I just want to be desired!”).

Highlights

• The hosts crack up at the scenario and Chris’s candor; Dax and Jake get creative with solutions.
• Chris has tried “baiting” the dog with his own sweaty underwear—no luck.
• Dax suggests testing with new, similarly styled undergarments for Chris and Laura to isolate if it’s fabric, cut, or pheromones appealing to the dog.
• Jake suggests adding strong, unpleasant smells (ammonia) to Laura’s underwear to turn Oliver off, or, on the flip side, stuffing Chris’s with enticing scents (pepperoni, mozzarella).
  • “What if we throw, like, juices in there? A little turkey, a little ham, a piece of cheese, some brie...” —Jake [55:04]
• Natalie Hollis worries about dog safety—ingesting underwear is risky. Dax suggests bear-proof hampers if all else fails.
• Chris is mostly fixated on achieving “parity”—just one stolen pair of his would validate him.
• Resolution ([63:38]): Chris will set up a “blind taste test” with safety precautions, doctoring the scents, and promises video evidence as a follow-up.

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4. Post-call Aftershow: Two Dads, Two Careers, One Honest Chat

[66:52–99:47]

Topics

• Jake urges Dax to direct another film, having admired his previous work.
• They discuss the grind of acting versus directing, delegation issues, how they manage their careers alongside podcasting.
• Both are candid about how their attitude towards acting and creative fulfillment has changed and matured, especially after years of feeling they had to “beg to be liked” in Hollywood.
• Dax reveals he started getting more tattoos as a declaration—“I’m done with acting,” only to realize how much of that was about woundedness from rejection.
  • “I came out here begging you to like me. I want to say, ‘F you, I don’t need you, and I’m done.’” —Dax [88:56]
• They bond over late-in-life self-acceptance, antidepressants, and how their outlook shifted from needing to please others to doing work for their own pride, not “the audience.”
• Poker is used as a metaphor for the acting world—don’t get caught up in others’ games or ego struggles, just play your hand.
  • “My job is just to try my hardest. This is an individual journey.” —Jake [96:11]
  • “Be of service to this thing in whatever way, even if it violates what I think.” —Dax on acting jobs [94:12]
• Both reflect on aging in the industry, seeing younger crews and directors, and the freeing shift from “the grind” mentality to being more present and self-assured in their work.
• Jake: “I don’t know why Dax is talking in the past tense. He’s got more in him.” [87:28]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On experts and knowing less than we think:
  • “We know so little about everything... and we think we know a lot more than we do.” —Dax (02:37)
• On self-organizing human systems:
  • “Somehow this whole madness self-organizes and works. Scary and liberating.” —Dax (09:41)
• On the horror of seeing in-laws nude:
  • “If I saw my mother fully naked, I would explode.” —Jake (27:43)
  • “I can’t eat a sandwich and see a guy’s testicles. I won’t eat.” —Jake (28:44)
• German sauna etiquette:
  • “When in Rome. Try it.” —Jake (39:40)
  • “Your fear is embarrassment. But what’s funny is they'd be more embarrassed for you in a towel.” —Dax (39:47)
• On dogs and underwear jealousy:
  • “At the end of the day, I just want to be desired.” —Chris (58:03)
  • “We're basically just trying to shame a dog into things.” —Jake (65:24)
• On aging and career:
  • “Six years ago I thought, I’m so sick of begging you to like me.” —Dax (89:01)
  • “I don’t know why Dax is talking in the past tense. He’s got more in him.” —Jake (87:28)
  • “My job is just to try my hardest. This is an individual journey.” —Jake (96:11)
  • “Be of service to this thing in whatever way, even if it violates what I think.” —Dax (94:12)
• Jake’s motivational closing:
  • “I ride with you. I’m excited to see what you do.” —Jake (100:50)
  • “That’s going to be a fun 15, 20 year run for you. I feel it in my bones.” —Jake (101:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |--------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 01:00–09:58 | Deep dive on humility, expertise, and self-organizing social systems | | 15:09–43:08 | Heather’s German sauna call | | 43:17–66:32 | Chris’s dog/underwear dilemma | | 66:52–100:59 | Aftershow: Dax & Jake on filmmaking, acting, and growth | | 87:28 | Jake urges Dax to keep directing | | 94:12 | Dax’s advice on acting/serving the material |

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Tone and Style

• Conversational, irreverent, earnestly honest, full of playful banter and mutual affection.
• Candid about embarrassing topics and personal growth.
• At times coarse, hilariously blunt, always supportive.

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Takeaways

• There are rarely perfect answers—humility, humor, and openness win.
• When in a new culture—embrace discomfort, bond with others, and laugh at yourself.
• Search for validation (from people or pets) is universal and a good source for jokes—solutions: try everything, film it, report back.
• Don’t sell yourself short—creative careers often circle back in unexpected, richer ways.
• Growth comes from discomfort, candid conversation, and honest self-assessment.

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Follow-Ups Assigned

• Heather is to join her family for nude saunas, record her diary entries, and report back.
• Chris will attempt the blinded, scent-based underwear dog test—video encouraged.

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This summary covers the main narrative arcs, the humor and heart of the episode, and the most memorable quotes for each dilemma. The timestamps guide listeners to the major advice sections and the insightful host-to-host dialogue for easy navigation.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

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[Jake Johnson]

Prices and participation may vary.

[Dax Shepard]

Not Valver McDelivery.

[Jake Johnson]

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Here to help.

After all these years of interviewing everybody, I mean, from. You've interviewed presidents and. Yeah. What's your kind of takeaway like? Because what's intimate about it is you get to spend two hours with great minds. Wildly. I mean, after we did ours, Cher showed up in two hours.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Jake Johnson]

So you're like, all right, but that doing, like. And I know the way you are. It's just, well, I'm doing this now. I've got to be good at it. I've got to do my research. I've got to keep up. I'm now sitting with this amazing character. I've got to keep up. I've got to do my. And once it ends, it's not a celebration. It's. Well, yeah, it's really. But I invited them. It's a really weird version of therapy that you get to, like, sit in a box where you stare at a smart mind and go, can I ask you questions about life? Can I ask you questions about thoughts? Can I ask you questions about survival? And they're like, well, I'm here promoting, so I will tell you everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm an expert in this, maybe the best in the world.

[Jake Johnson]

And you get to go, what do you think of that?

[Dax Shepard]

My. My main, main takeaway and how this experience has changed me is I will regularly have the head of the psych department from Harvard on talking about his theory.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm in. He leaves and I'm in. Yeah, that's it. Then I have a Stanford psych professor. She comes in and she's got another take on it. And I go, yeah, she's right.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And my conclusion after all this is like, there's no right, man.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Most things in life, like a slam dunk, is like, it's 65, right?

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Dax Shepard]

We know so little about everything. I mean, almost 100 thing. And. And we think we know a lot more than we do. And we're so in the discovery phase of almost everything still, that it's made, I hope, me more humble in my convictions.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I take far less seriously a lot of these definitive statements. And I'm like, guys, we're all just kind of hoping to be above 51. Right. And if you're demanding 100 right. And you think anyone that's shy of 100 right. Is a fraud, it's just you got nobody, then.

[Jake Johnson]

That's exactly right.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's. That's helped me because I'm a little too confident in my opinions or when I started eight years ago, 100. And now I'm like, yeah, the dude, the head of MIT said this thing, and then the head of this.

[Jake Johnson]

And they both were right.

[Dax Shepard]

They're both right.

[Jake Johnson]

Now, does that make you, in terms of everybody being so afraid in the world these days, does that make you feel. And not to think about them as their answer, just you as your answer, does that make you feel safer or less safe as guys? 1. The other thing we have in connection is we're not guys who inherently feel safe.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no. It's. Can I add one really cool thing about the podcast? The gift of that thing that you have and I have is I can now tell.

Within five minutes of someone sitting down if they have our childhood.

[Jake Johnson]

Really? What?

[Dax Shepard]

Like, like the one I. I remember most clearly is, like, Machine Gun Kelly.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Rolled in and I was just watching him. He peeped, like, every window. He checked the door, he looked behind the thing. All so subtle. Right? Like, I don't think Monica's noticing it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Or Rob, I don't know. But I'. Oh, yeah, he's one of us. Right?

[Jake Johnson]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

And so once I was dialed into that, he was saying, you know, Chicago's or Cleveland is my home. But I know he only lived in Cleveland for three years. And I have the Jake, the tiniest you've ever seen smirk. Like, he says that. And what happened in my head was I go, yeah, that's how I feel about Milford. I tell everyone Milford's my home because those were the best three years of my life.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Dax Shepard]

And so I had this invisible smirk, and he's mid sentence, and he got distracted, and then he recovered and he finished the sentence. And I go, hold on a second. Is it possible you just saw my mouth move like, a micron? And he goes, yeah. What. What. What happened? And I go, I wasn't laughing at you, dude. I was connecting. Because I have the same thing about Milford. And he was like, okay, cool. But like, to. To be that dialed into these micro little things is awesome.

[Jake Johnson]

But also you are hyper aware because you need to make sure somebody's gonna act, though. You need them to act, and that doesn't go away.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He needs to feel really safe so I can get to know him. That's the job of the day is like, we. We've seen him in videos, we see him on TV and Instagram. Who is he?

[Jake Johnson]

But you, who have done all of this, talked to Bill Gates for a week. Obama, Michelle, all these people.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Everyone's on. We'll hike and you'll do like a quick talk about. I'll bring something up and you'll be like, well, Hillary Clinton's interesting. And I think we're talking in theory. I'll go like, yeah, she is, man. You're like, well, what she said was. And I'm like, oh, he's not talking about an interview.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

He's talking about when he talked to her.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So he shot the shield over two hours.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But when you talk to all these world leaders, there's no. Like, what I always thought growing up was, there's other people in this world who are controlling the world.

[Dax Shepard]

Totally.

[Jake Johnson]

You're talking to all the people controlling the world. Now, you're not them.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

But you're talking to them. So in talking to all the people, what you're saying is, is they're not experts.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody's at 51%.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, there is. They're the highest percentage of. Right. But the percentage is still low.

[Jake Johnson]

And so for you, does that make you go, as I'm entering the second phase of life. Yeah, I know who's running the inner circling. They don't know what the fuck they're talking.

[Dax Shepard]

It's funny you'd say that, because I find it not scary that no one knows. I find it encouraging because we're doing pretty well, man. I mean, it's as discouraging as it is. There are 7 billion people living in mostly harmony.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is unimaginable.

[Jake Johnson]

That's true.

[Dax Shepard]

200, 000 years ago, we're hunting gatherers. You couldn't get 25 people together without the totally. So it's like, okay, there's problems, but it's kind of working really well. And we don't even know anything. So wait, wait.

[Jake Johnson]

Wait until we know a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait Till you take that, you swab the baby and it goes, okay. It's neurodivergent in this way and way. And here's the perfect program to get them across the finish line. Developed and, and adjusted all these things, you know.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. The reason I play more of the conspiracy stuff is I don't go in the dark rabbit holes. I don't care. But when you go to the. If nobody's controlling all of this, that's.

[Dax Shepard]

Why it's so scary. It's more comforting.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. And then I go like this. Then how much is. How is so much weird happening? Yes. And I go. Then I'll be freaked out and go, so this is as wild as medieval times. When I look back and go, that was some scary man. You just had people running around and all of a sudden a new tribe decided to come in with swords and they just took over.

[Dax Shepard]

They had a technology that you didn't stir up and you're just all dead.

[Jake Johnson]

And then I'd go like, that can't be the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Look, maybe the coolest thing I've learned in the whole eight years has been I had this guy on Neil Feast, and he was both an oncologist and a physicist, and he explained in the most beautiful way, he said, if you look at a big pack, it's not called a pack and not a herd, but whatever a big group of birds of swallows is. If you see it from a distance, at first you think there's one black sphere moving through the air. And then when you zoom in, you realize, oh, no, actually it's made up of individual swallows. That's what it is. But then if you look even closer at the swallow, you go, oh, it's actually not a swallow. As I look closer, it's a bunch of cells. So the cells are the thing that's the quintessential element. And then you look at the cells, you go, no, there's molecules in there and then there's atoms in there, and then there'. Electrons and then there's quartz and then there's. We don't know what the quintessential element of anything is. If you keep looking further and further, it's a million individual things. And so what that gives rise to is this theory of self. Complex self organizing systems, which your human body is. So your body has trillions of cells in it. None of them have a game plan. They don't. There's no master cell saying, hey, you trillion cells, go do this magically. These cells self organize and communicate and create this Body. And he was pointing out that, like, nature just does this. If you watch an ant line going to get food the way it operates and then you put onto that the subway exit in New York. No one's saying, I'm gonna go to the left, I'm gonna go to the right. I'm gonna. Everyone just does the same self organizes into this thing. And that's a weird magic.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That 150 people can mount a staircase in New York and no one falls.

[Jake Johnson]

But you also do it at a concert when you all leave.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Even before you get to the exits, everything gets really unified. Quietly. You all know where you are in the pack. So your.

[Dax Shepard]

Our fear is like, wait, no one's running this.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

But if you look at like, yeah. And no one's running the exit of the big concert and everyone gets out just fine. It's like trying to have some bit of comfort and confidence and like this whole madness somehow self organizes and works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's scary and liberating.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Well, I love you, man.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you. I'm so glad you had me on. Thanks.

[Jake Johnson]

I want to come back whenever you want. I'm never going to ask because I know how busy you are.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Open invite. Okay, good push earlier is. I'm like, I don't want to.

[Dax Shepard]

We should tell the listeners. We had this funny moment where we're hiking and I broached it first and I was like, you know, just so you know, I would always do your podcast and you go, oh, my God, dude. I wanted to say the same. Yes, you want to. You don't want to seem like you're inviting yourself. And also you want to make sure you know. Yeah, dude, anytime.

[Jake Johnson]

All right, let's take some calls.

[Natalie Hollis]

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[Dax Shepard]

Easy.

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[Jake Johnson]

Hello, can we get your name, please?

[Heather]

Yes, my name is Heather.

[Jake Johnson]

Heather. Where are you calling from, Heather?

[Heather]

Calling from Germany. Live in New Orleans, but calling from Germany.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you in the service?

[Heather]

No, I'm not. Husband is German, so we're here for the holidays with his family.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, let me just tell you this.

[Heather]

Part of why I'm calling, Heather.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, you got a special one today. You got the great Dax shepherd from armchair and everything. A true expert and dear friend on the line, Heather. So we are going to solve these problems.

[Heather]

I. Can I please tell you all, first of all, so excited, but second of all, pretty sure this is the universe's way of already solving the problem.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, really?

[Heather]

Tell me to get over it. Oh, I know exactly what Dax is.

[Jake Johnson]

Before you say your problem, tell us what Dax is going to say. Yeah, wait, Dax, cover your ears. Take the mic off for a second.

[Dax Shepard]

Great, great, great.

[Jake Johnson]

Hold on. I'm going to p. Dax is taking the earpiece off. So, Heather, really quickly, how's Dax going to respond to this?

[Heather]

So probably not in this harsh of terms, but I'm sure he's going to say something to the effect of. Yeah, so, like, get the fuck over it. What's the problem?

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. Okay, Dax, you're good.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

All right. So, Heather, Dax is back on. What is the issue we can help you with today.

[Heather]

Okay, so I need help navigating German saunas, particularly with my husband's family. So he is German. Yeah, he's German in his region. Saunas are like.

[Dax Shepard]

They love their nudity, don't they?

[Heather]

Yes, so much. And you know what else they love is the mixed gender nudity of it all, which is like.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, really?

[Dax Shepard]

And they don't groom either. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. I didn't know this.

[Dax Shepard]

Heather. You don't possibly know me well enough to know my German sauna story, do you?

[Heather]

Oh, not the German part. I just figured like the beauty part.

[Jake Johnson]

I would German sauna thing.

[Dax Shepard]

So I went. My mother, my sweet Laura LeBeau, she knew I want to drive on the autobahn. And what a mom. She took me when I was 16 to Germany, my first trip to Europe, so I could drive on the autobahn. And we are at this nice hotel. And she didn't want to come down to the pool. This is so perverted, heather. I was 16 and she didn't want to come down to the pool. And so I went down by myself and I noticed there was a sauna. And then of course, I'm wearing a bathing suit. Then I go to the sauna and I. And I just peek inside and I see there's like six naked people in there. And I'm 16.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a dream come true.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna do this. And I took my bathing suit off at 16 and went in the sauna.

[Jake Johnson]

You want to know?

[Dax Shepard]

And I was so afraid that my mom might come down to the pool. But I couldn't resist being in this pervy situation.

[Jake Johnson]

Here's an unfortun thing about you. For the rest of us, it's clear you got a big penis at 16 to have the confidence with six German strangers while you haven't even fully developed to go, I'm dropping my bottoms. I'll tell you what I was not doing at 16 with six adults, maybe three adult men. Let me show you what I got.

[Dax Shepard]

Cook in these legs.

[Jake Johnson]

No way.

[Dax Shepard]

Let me show you what kind of I'm working with down here. You guys like bra?

[Jake Johnson]

You guys like bush?

[Dax Shepard]

I got bush. I certainly had bush.

[Jake Johnson]

I got bush for days, guys. So. So, Heather.

[Dax Shepard]

So yeah, you're not pickle man with your family, so.

[Jake Johnson]

But I don't walk the audience and me. So Dax understands his culture. I don't. So the Germans take saunas. They're all naked. It's mixed gender, Jake.

[Dax Shepard]

More than that, if you go to the park, like in Hamburg. You go to the park on a sunny day and half of the people are bare naked. Full families.

[Jake Johnson]

Is this true?

[Dax Shepard]

Dad's dogs out. Mom's vag out.

[Jake Johnson]

That's not true.

[Dax Shepard]

12 year old son's dicks out.

[Heather]

This is not true.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, right.

[Jake Johnson]

Heather? Heather, is this true?

[Dax Shepard]

They don't give a about nudity.

[Jake Johnson]

There's not little kids with naked parents.

[Heather]

Okay, okay, so I just have to clarify like just off the top that like, if you have any German listeners, like please don't come at me.

[Jake Johnson]

No, no, no.

Who cares?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm Ack Shepard on Instagram.

[Heather]

Time.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody knows what this show is. But, but I just need a little reality trike here. Heather.

[Heather]

Of course, of course.

[Jake Johnson]

So first of all, do people get naked like this in parks?

[Heather]

Okay, so I have not been privy to that part. I will say in, in Munich, yes. Actually there was like a swimming hole area where some of that was happening. Yes, but I haven't seen it in, in Hamburg. God bless.

[Jake Johnson]

And then walk me through what's happening with these saunas.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, can I tell Heather really quick? I took my children to Denmark last summer and there's a place called like Christylandia in, in Copenhagen. And it's like an anarchist community. And it's along a canal. And I rent this little electric boat. I'm with my family. They want to swim. Oh, I'll pull over here then. They want to swim to a dock. And as they swim to the dock, I realize everyone on this dock is bare naked. It's an anarchist community. There's a guy like 275, Prince Albert piercing connected to his nipples. And I'm watching my little children swim to this dock. I'm like, do they know what they to climb aboard.

[Jake Johnson]

Look up. Honey, Honey.

[Dax Shepard]

No, the parent. It was me. Me and another set of parents. We were just dying laughing, watching these four little girls swim to this dock. Shark.

[Jake Johnson]

Shark. So Heather. Nipples crazy. So, Heather.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, back to Munich. Sorry I interrupted you.

[Jake Johnson]

You do you. Dex. I'm gonna get this out of Heather at some point. Heather.

[Heather]

Okay. Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Walk me through what's happening in Germany with these songs.

[Heather]

Okay, so from what I have experienced, learned from my husband, etc. It's like it's a very big deal in a health, wellness, like community kind of thing, especially where he's from. So he's from like what was East Germany before the wall came down. So there's a huge community here of what's called fkk, which is basically like A nudist, like, celebratory thing. It's not intended to be pervy. It's just a celebration of bodies and, like, getting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

When they say it's not pervy, it's people saying that body positivity is not perfect. It's all perfect.

[Heather]

Okay. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Amen.

[Heather]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't think perv is bad, but now I'm pervy.

[Dax Shepard]

I actually don't think they're pervy. Like, they don't even see it. I was a perv there. I'm a pervert there.

[Jake Johnson]

They all see it.

[Dax Shepard]

They see it. But I'm telling you, like. Like, I interviewed Heidi Klum. Her father videotaped her delivery. That's just not something American dad does.

[Heather]

No, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

That's crazy. I mean, for us, that's crazy for everybody, that's great. Unless it's Heidi Klum, actually.

[Dax Shepard]

How can you resist?

[Jake Johnson]

He's like, please, please.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm great with a video camera.

[Jake Johnson]

Have you seen you?

[Dax Shepard]

I just don't trust anyone else.

[Jake Johnson]

All right, so in East Germany, there's a group called the fkk.

[Heather]

Yeah, that was just. That's gratuitous. Details that God is not part of fkk, but, like, it is a very common part of the culture here.

[Jake Johnson]

And so when you're with the fam. Have. What's happening.

[Heather]

Okay, so. So this has been. Sauna's husband loves saunas. When he first told me about them, I was like, oh, great. Sounds good. Super excited. Until he told me about the mixed gender and fully nude part. Like requ.

Like Hudson. It's required. It is.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you allowed? Are you allowed to have a towel?

[Heather]

You can have a towel. You can. So that part is fine. But swimsuit, anything like that, not allowed. It's seen as unsanitary or, like, unsafe.

[Dax Shepard]

Interesting.

[Jake Johnson]

Because of the plastics.

[Heather]

They think.

[Jake Johnson]

They think the hot plastics cook.

[Heather]

They think it's going to burn into your skin.

[Jake Johnson]

Exactly. Right.

[Heather]

Okay. You know, yeah, we say that, but you're sitting on a towel, Right?

[Jake Johnson]

So, like, look, you're not wrong, but neither are they.

[Heather]

There's just a lot of logical. There's just holes, you know, that's all. So.

Yes, he. Like, we'll do that at hotels, all that kind of stuff, because they don't have one at home. It's caused a little bit of, like. We've had to have lots of discussions about it because I am not super chill about it. I have tried my best to, like, get there, but I've avoided the family outings. Until this trip. So this trip was.

Parents 40th anniversary. So we just did that two weeks ago. Like four nights. The sun sets at 4:30. It doesn't come back up until like 6:30 or 7.

[Jake Johnson]

There's nothing to do.

[Heather]

Yeah, it's a sauna.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a sauna. I would get in a sauna every night if I was the dad. Yeah.

[Heather]

Okay, so you would.

[Jake Johnson]

And I would take my bottoms off.

[Heather]

There is. Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Well I'd take them off before I left on the walk to the sauna.

[Jake Johnson]

And me nake is not impressive. My body type's not great without clothes on. It's okay with clothes really bad naked I would do it in front of everybody. As soon as the sun goes down, clothes get off, walk to the sauna.

[Heather]

Okay. So that was. I got by the skin of my teeth during that trip. We only had like one full night. But like the hotel that we stayed at it was for the spa like amenities.

[Jake Johnson]

Let me ask you a question Heather about before we get to the question because your setup is great.

[Heather]

Of course.

[Jake Johnson]

So during the 40th did you see your father in law's hog?

[Heather]

I.

[Jake Johnson]

He's not going to listen.

[Heather]

Was she?

[Dax Shepard]

She saw it. This kind of delay can only mean one thing is that like as you don't delay. Seen your dick.

[Jake Johnson]

Has anyone seen my dick?

[Dax Shepard]

Don't ask me if I've seen.

[Jake Johnson]

Have you seen my dick?

[Dax Shepard]

Never haven't. No, I haven't asked me if I've seen your dick. Have you seen my dick?

[Jake Johnson]

I saw the outline of it in your movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Chips some pixelated version of it.

[Jake Johnson]

So did see your father in law's.

[Heather]

Dick not in, not like full frontal whatever.

[Jake Johnson]

No, no he didn't take it off and model for you. But if he's naked is part of the thing is as you're sitting there cooking in that box going oh. And you turn to your right, you see dick.

[Heather]

Okay so here's the thing though and this is part of the. The bigger question is I avoided going into any of the sauna space. Like the specific sauna rooms with the family. Went with my husband went with strangers. But like part of the thing here is how is there any way to get away with not seeing them naked, not being seen by them naked and also, and also not missing out on the bonding time that happens in the sauna.

[Jake Johnson]

This is a great question.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

It's the same thing as smoking. It's like how do I go outside and have a cigarette with everyone without having a cigarette Because I have asthma.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

I have copd.

Heather, could you tell me, in order, what is more scary, them seeing you naked or you seen them naked?

[Jake Johnson]

Fair question.

[Dax Shepard]

Dead weight, dead heat.

[Heather]

I think it's more of me seeing them naked because I know that I'm like an image person and I know that I will die being able to.

[Jake Johnson]

Picture that in my head, by the way. But like, no, I'm the same. If I saw my in laws naked, I'd never not think about it.

[Heather]

Everybody says like, you don't look, you don't see, whatever. It's like, it's not true.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody.

[Heather]

Clearly.

[Jake Johnson]

Heather, question about the song and then we're going to try to figure this out.

When. So you haven't gone in. So they all go in. Is mom and dad and your husband and maybe siblings, Are they all going in toweless or does everybody have a towel?

[Heather]

Powerless?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm trying to tell you, I know she downplayed the park thing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, but it's real.

[Dax Shepard]

It's real.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

They don't care.

[Jake Johnson]

That's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

When you're watching TV there on normal commercials, there's nudity.

[Jake Johnson]

If I saw my mother fully naked.

[Dax Shepard]

Casually, I'd be bombed.

[Jake Johnson]

I would explode.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, but how about your house? Like, I noticed my house is all nude. My growing up house wasn't.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, my house changed.

[Dax Shepard]

It changed.

[Jake Johnson]

Nude was fine. I used to take baths with my daughters all the time. There was an age where now if I were to see them naked, it would be weird.

[Dax Shepard]

You wouldn't want to do that.

[Jake Johnson]

No. If they. When I'm in the shower, if they walk, they'll go like, oh, I'm like, you saw. How old are they? 12.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So my 12 year old's just starting to now feel that way. But what I now know from experience is like they are in some bizarre category that is just like they're non. I don't know how to explain it. It's like, it's not nudity.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know.

[Jake Johnson]

I. I agree. But still, culturally, I'm just. I couldn't be at a park with my aunt and have her totally naked eating strawberries. Yeah, I would go, you gotta put.

[Dax Shepard]

Some underpants on minimum. You gotta put some underwear.

[Jake Johnson]

I can't eat a sandwich and see vagina. I can't eat a sandwich and see a guy's testicles. I won't eat.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't.

[Jake Johnson]

If there's buffalo wings and then somebody's nuts are out and they reach and I'm See gut, nuts, pubes, side butt, appetite's gone. Pass.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Also that's nature's oic.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And also I have resentment. This is now a long term.

[Dax Shepard]

You're stolen food from my mouth.

[Jake Johnson]

A big thing for me is food. You've taken that from me. But Heather, this is about you and this is about this sauna situation. So your question is what are you going back to see everybody?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, can I ask who's. Who's putting the most amount of pressure on you to join? Is it the in laws or is it your husband?

[Jake Johnson]

It's gotta be husband.

[Heather]

So.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you.

[Heather]

I. You're just reading it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So. And I won't even say pressure like you're missing out. Yes. So that's the thing is like, he's been super gracious with me about like actually compromising. But you know, if we ever had a fight about it and he'd just be like, okay, you can stay here then.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But also for him anyway, you're missing out on bonding with his family.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe his favorite time with his family.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And that's the time they all relax and they're themselves and you're in the other room because you don't want your boobs to be seen.

[Heather]

He's like, exactly.

[Jake Johnson]

And you gotta be kidding me. No one's looking at your boobs, dude. This is my dad.

[Heather]

Yep. And certainly I'm like, no, they are.

[Jake Johnson]

And you're also like, I would look at his penis. And he's like, maybe don't be 12.

Could you maybe be an adult, Heather?

[Dax Shepard]

Also, how about this though? Even if you said, I'd love to take a look at your dad's penis, if my wife, my father was still alive, first of all, she would have seen it by now because he was naked all the time.

Maybe German didn't know it, but. But if my wife said, yeah, I'd love to see what your dad's dick looks like, see if it's similar to yours. I'm like, great, cool. I won't give a fuck. Even if that. If it was a worst case scenario, Heather, where you were like, I'm dying to get eyes on that hog.

[Jake Johnson]

Really embarrassing thing that Danny J. Is going to get mad at me about. About dad's dicks.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

On my dad's deathbed, my brother was there and my dad called my brother and at the end and you know, they had like a moment and then there was, you know, they had to change. My dad and my brother got a look at my dad's Dick.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And my. My brother and I were talking after he died and we were both crying and he' like sad stuff. And I was like, yeah, man, it's really hard. And he goes, like, in other news, dad had a pretty good dick. And I go, what?

[Dax Shepard]

He goes, yeah, the old guy had.

[Jake Johnson]

A nice sized dick. And I go, is that right? And we both took a moment, we went like, all right, man, that's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But literally that makes it a little easier.

[Jake Johnson]

I stopped crying and I was like, I'm happy for him as a guy apart from me. Spent 78 years on planet Earth. He had a nice dick, man.

[Dax Shepard]

I remember being 10 and my papa Bob went into the hospital and he was a big guy. And I arrived, arrived just as they were putting a catheter in and I was again, 8 or 10. And I was like, oh, goodness, I could not look at that.

[Jake Johnson]

So, Heather, what is the big. So your husband wants you because you're missing out on quality time. Which I. What is. What are we calling him? What's his name?

[Heather]

Alex.

[Jake Johnson]

Alex. I'm with Alex.

[Dax Shepard]

What a great German name. They love their exes.

[Jake Johnson]

But I'm with Alex because when you're there. And so I'm gonna try to simplify your question to one thing we could pitch on.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

And that is, are you going back to Germany to see the family soon?

[Dax Shepard]

She's there now, so I thought she was there.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, you're still there now.

[Heather]

I'm still here. So we leave.

[Dax Shepard]

This is crucial.

[Heather]

Like 12 hours for another week long.

[Dax Shepard]

We got a ticking time.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Oh, so this is maybe even tonight.

[Heather]

This is like. Yeah, this is like an urgent.

[Jake Johnson]

Heather, here's my.

[Dax Shepard]

I need an update. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

A pitch, cuz I got a pitch.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

What's your first take?

[Dax Shepard]

We'll just. I need. I'll need a recap.

[Jake Johnson]

We're for sure going to get an update.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a given.

[Jake Johnson]

But what's your genuine honest. Dax, you hear all this? She's there with her family. What advice would you give combining armchair and here to help. Now. Now you're you.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Right. My non funny advice. Your real one. Yes. Would be a. It's okay for you to tell them. Them. Hey guys, I'm trying to catch up. I'm from the U.S. we're so weird. Take all the responsibility. We're so weird about nudity.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's my baggage and I'd love to join you guys. And I'm embarrassed that I have this hang up. Is it cool if I wear a Towel. And they're all gonna be like, of course I don't give a. Yeah. And so to me the solution is you go on a towel. That doesn't solve your father in law's.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, I. I've got a different dick. Well, first of all, I've got a different pit. But Dax, I'm gonna. Heather thought you were going to say, okay, get the over it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

And that's kind of where I'm at. Ah, but here's my real pitch to you, Heather.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't only want you to go in there naked, but I want you to go in there with a little bit of a little strut.

[Heather]

God damn it.

[Jake Johnson]

I think you've got to. I would even consider doing a little dance. When you drop the towel, make American fun out. How weird this is. So that when you walk in and you go to his parents, you say like, mom, dad. And then you go like.

And they're all going like, you are such a child. And you're like, I am. I. I want to bond with you guys and do it your way, but you got an American in this box. And guess what, and guess that you bought the ticket. Take the ride.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello.

[Jake Johnson]

Let everybody have a little bit of your feeling of it. And that is. I feel really weird getting naked and seeing you naked. I think the response will be laughter. And then you'll sit down, you'll be really embarrassed. You'll go, I can't believe I did that. Your husband go, why'd you do that? You'll say, dax Shepard and Jake Johnson told me to say, who's that?

[Dax Shepard]

He's German.

[Jake Johnson]

But you'll say, I got on a podcast. They told me to do it. It was really. It's really embarrassing and I have to come and tell him I did this. But I want to take every sauna with you guys. I love you guys. You're my family and I'm not missing out on this. But as Dax said, this is really embarrassing for me and they made me do a 10 second dance.

[Dax Shepard]

Now your advice did. I do want to say you're right, Heather, in that there is another thing I might say which is like, I think that's the easy route for you. You just say like, hey, man, I'm weird. It's my. I'm going to wear a towel. Hope it doesn't offend anyone. Secondly, amazing opportunity.

[Jake Johnson]

Amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

To go sit naked.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you're gonna leave there and go like, yeah, And I'm alive.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. As well as you're also gonna look back One day you're gonna be an old lady and look back and you're gonna be really mad at yourself if you didn't sit naked with these people.

[Dax Shepard]

If you didn't show up, your father in law was cracking up top.

[Jake Johnson]

But Heather, what do you think about going in fully strutting, doing a dance and letting them all see it and then asking your in laws to go like if you guys don't mind. You want to shake it a little bit? Bit? Should we all move around for five? Will you guys help me out? Can we have 10 seconds of standing and shaking?

[Dax Shepard]

Loosen up just for me.

[Jake Johnson]

Can we do 10 seconds and then I'll never ask again.

[Heather]

Can we flop it around things here, please?

[Dax Shepard]

I have no legs.

[Heather]

Any English?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, they don't speak any English. She said I have no legs. Late, late.

[Jake Johnson]

Update edition. Oh, so they wait if they're not speaking English.

[Dax Shepard]

Lady, how good's your German?

[Jake Johnson]

But also, how are you bonding then? You're not bonding anyway, what's the point?

[Dax Shepard]

Come home.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you for the call.

[Dax Shepard]

Come on home. Yeah, we need you back here.

[Jake Johnson]

If you're not bonding in there. He just wants you to sit near naked people you can't communicate with.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to be naked and no, no plastic. You have like Google translator happening during this.

[Jake Johnson]

This is a crazy thing to find out at the end.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't communicate every 15 minutes.

[Jake Johnson]

You're like all about looking at each other's genitals.

[Dax Shepard]

Von hostel dines Gabor stock. When's your birthday? It's the only thing.

[Jake Johnson]

How about this, Dax? If you and I couldn't speak the same language and we were naked, where would your eyes go?

[Dax Shepard]

First of all, I'd never hang out with you. We would never find ourselves anywhere other than in a line somewhere together.

[Jake Johnson]

How about in a hot box with no clothes?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you're in a wild situation.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So you don't really communicate with anybody but your husband.

[Jake Johnson]

So Heather, just quietly go in there, Nick, naked, keep a towel on, take away the dance.

Yeah, Heather, don't do the dance. It would be insane.

[Dax Shepard]

There is some safety net in that. You'll never know what they think.

[Jake Johnson]

Who cares?

[Heather]

My husband. So my husband again, God bless him, so gracious with me and does so much of the translating. He is also not the most reliable translator. I think you can hear me right now. And I think he would agree with me.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So he will translate half of the things or some of the things that he wants to translate. Or he will summarize at the end of like A five minute, like, monologue.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, well, if Alex is there, will you ask him what his preference would be?

[Jake Johnson]

You.

[Dax Shepard]

You not there, you there in a towel, or are you there naked or.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you there dancing first?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

Those are his four options. And then, Heather, we're going to pick one and we're going to get out of this and you're going to do it. Okay.

[Heather]

Would you prefer me to go in. Wait, to not go in at all? That's first option. Second option is go in with a towel. Third option is to go in naked. Fourth option is to go in naked and do a little dance. At the beginning.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like, I'm hot as a rock.

[Jake Johnson]

Would you like me? I was like, this is incredible. I wish I was him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, no kidding. All of the above.

[Jake Johnson]

What did he say?

[Heather]

You'll have to hear what he said for the last response here.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Heather]

I think we should stretch the fourth one with the dance, but I think.

[Dax Shepard]

We should stretch the four.

[Jake Johnson]

So you're pitching a longer dance? Wow.

[Heather]

No, no, no. He was.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, scratch.

[Heather]

He said scratch.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Chris]

Oh, scratch.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought he wanted to expand.

[Jake Johnson]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

Expand the universe.

[Jake Johnson]

I was about to try to get him dancing. All right, so no dance. So, alright, Alex, what do you think? What would you like her to do tonight?

[Heather]

Oh, hold on. I gotta go back. Okay, which of the first three?

[Dax Shepard]

I sway or dry?

[Heather]

He just. He just said, whatever you're comfortable with.

[Dax Shepard]

Get out of here, Alex. Come home.

[Jake Johnson]

So, Heather, here. Here's my final pitch to you. And it's going to be what you thought Dax was going to say. You are a visitor to their family. Illinois. This is about their group, not your group. You married into it. You're not doing this in New Orleans. You're not saying, hey, come visit me in Cincinnati. I guess we'll all take our clothes off and sit in a sauna. You're there.

[Dax Shepard]

When in Rome.

[Jake Johnson]

When in Rome. If I was in a weird country and they put food in front of me I thought was disgusting, you know what I'm doing? Trying it.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Jake Johnson]

So guess what? Try it also.

[Dax Shepard]

Heather, your fear is embarrassment. But what's. What's funny is they'd be more embarrassed for you in a towel than they will be for you humiliated. Actually, a whole embarrassing thing to do is to be in a towel, which.

[Jake Johnson]

Is so interesting, I would pretend it doesn't mean anything. And then I need you to, like.

[Dax Shepard]

They'Re liable to talk about you after this experience. For wearing a towel. They're not going to talk about you naked? Cuz they can't even see genitalia.

[Jake Johnson]

It's. But I need you to call us back after and tell us what the entire experience was. But Heather, I need you to do.

[Dax Shepard]

I need her just giggling in there. Did you hear giggling?

[Jake Johnson]

But Heather, I don't want you to go on one song every time it's offered. I need you to say yes. And afterwards I would like you to make voice notes of how the experience went and send all the voice notes in.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Jake Johnson]

And then we'll have you on wow. But as soon as it's done. Or before be like, he just took off his pants. I did see his penis. She's naked. I'm dropping my towel. I can't believe I'm doing this. But I need you to do it. Remember that call? There was a girl who was trying to learn how to drive a car, but she was really nervous. And the idea is we should just have to start and make voice notes. But every day practice a little. This is. You need to. Every single time a sauna is offered, get in the sauna. You're not going to live in Germany. This isn't your life. This is a weird vacation.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in the movie. Yes, man. For a week.

[Jake Johnson]

You're in the movie. Yes, man. For a week is right. So, Heather.

[Heather]

God.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you going to do it?

[Heather]

I knew.

[Dax Shepard]

See, hold on though. Heather, this you did know. And we only ask people advice so that we get the advice we wanted.

[Jake Johnson]

If that's true our callers are crazy, then our callers are insane.

If our callers have wanted the advice we've given them over the years. But Heather, we got to get off. We got another caller. Tell us what you're going to do.

[Heather]

I will do that. I will try to seize the sauna.

[Jake Johnson]

Try to. Or are you gonna do it?

[Heather]

I'll do it. I'm sorry.

[Jake Johnson]

I'll tell you this. If you don't do it, you had Dax Shepard here. You didn't even take the thing. This was a waste.

[Dax Shepard]

I'd love to go in the sauna with everyone. Just side note.

[Heather]

Take a little flat. Dax in with me. Just for everything.

[Jake Johnson]

I've taken a sauna with Dax.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. With plastic shorts on. We have a lot of microplastics.

[Jake Johnson]

And the great David Walton.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That was a great three.

[Dax Shepard]

That was a good song.

[Jake Johnson]

Strong song. Heather, please do this and please follow up with us. Cuz I. The reason I want you to do a lot of different nights is I think the experience is going to change by the end. And I think on day five, you're going to go, something happened.

[Dax Shepard]

I think you're going to be instigating massage. Like, gang, when we get back in the sauna, and I think you're going.

[Jake Johnson]

To back home, try to get your girlfriend to go like, ow. Take those disgusting underpants off.

[Dax Shepard]

Do people sign any kind of waiver for this? Because if she were to pass, she's dehydrated, she's following your instructions. She's, like, on the verge of death. And someone's like, one more time, and she's like.

[Jake Johnson]

We lose heather after episode 50 and all of our endings. You're an adult. This is advice.

[Dax Shepard]

Make your own decisions, not medical advice.

[Jake Johnson]

Heather, I need you to do it. I need you to follow up. Okay.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you, buddy. Great call.

[Dax Shepard]

You're a party. Heather. Nice meeting you.

[Heather]

Cool try. Nice to meet you, too. Thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you. Bye.

Hello?

[Heather]

Hey.

[Chris]

How's it going?

[Jake Johnson]

Good. Thanks for coming on the show.

[Chris]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Jake Johnson]

Could we get your name, please?

[Chris]

My name is Chris. I'm 38, I'm from Florida. And the reason I'm calling is because my dog won't stop eating my wife's worn underwear.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, hold on.

[Jake Johnson]

By the way, Chris. Yeah. Chris, wait. Thanks for listening to the show and knowing how to do it.

But I will tell you this. You got a real special one here. You're with the great Dax Shepard. The whole Shepherd.

[Chris]

Come on.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, dude. And so he's shooting today, so we're gonna really fix this problem.

[Dax Shepard]

Chris, thanks for knowing who I am. Because every time you say you're with Dax Shepard, my anxiety is like, they're not gonna know.

[Jake Johnson]

I feel like I didn't realize that, but I'm. I put everybody in that awkward situation.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. It's fine.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody gets tense first. And I'm like, but everybody. I'm like, but I didn't think of that. But that is. I. I feel it in the air, but I don't know how else to do it now.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I know. I don't think there's. You're doing anything wrong. It's just my own anxiety, But I have the same. Guess. What if someone didn't know? Great.

[Jake Johnson]

Life goes on.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But still, I've realized that, too. It's a thing. But, Chris. 38, Florida. Your dog eats your wife's old underpants.

[Chris]

Currently, no matter what we do, he. He sniffs them out. I mean, sometimes he just snacks on the crotch. And then there's other times that he eats the whole meal, and obviously what goes in must come out. And I'm the one that has to pick him up. One time I took him.

[Dax Shepard]

Do they ever get lodged halfway out and you got a tug.

[Chris]

Yep, that's happened before. And it actually happened at a play date. And then I had to explain to everyone what was going on, so.

[Natalie Hollis]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sorry. Those are my underwear. You go. There they are.

[Jake Johnson]

Hey, Chris, before you get to the question, first of all, you're doing a great job. Yeah, What?

[Dax Shepard]

You explain what a life you're living. Your dog get some thongs.

[Jake Johnson]

Can you walk us through what you explained to everybody what happened during that play day?

[Chris]

I mean, I just told him that he has, like, this hunger for her panties, and there's nothing we can do about it. I mean, we close the bathroom door, we put it in the laundry room.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, he just.

[Chris]

He just figures out the way to get him in. Where's I got our wits out, friend.

[Dax Shepard]

If you put him up real high, will he just jump all day?

[Jake Johnson]

He's a dog.

He's a dog.

[Heather]

Over.

[Chris]

He's. He's opened the bathroom door.

[Jake Johnson]

He's loving what she's got cooking. So what's his dog's name? And what kind of dog is it? And by the way, that dog's your competition, brother. Oliver is a Perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

What a pervert. You asked for this.

[Jake Johnson]

If you name a dog Oliver and he turns out to be a perfect.

He's a doodle.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course. A dumb doodle.

[Jake Johnson]

I did not expect this dog to be Oliver the Dole. I was thinking a mix. A pit mix for sure name like Hank, man. We got Oliver the Doodle eating your wife's panties, and he won't stop. And you're not doing a thing about it. Guess what? Oliver's the alpha.

[Dax Shepard]

He's here.

[Jake Johnson]

You, Chris, you're gonna pull it out of my ass when your kids are here. What's your wife?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm going to eat your wife's panties, and you're going to tug them out of my ass in front of your friends.

[Jake Johnson]

Chris, what's your wife's name?

[Heather]

Laura.

[Jake Johnson]

Laura. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And I. I also feel like I need to know. Florida is a very large state. Where in Florida are you?

[Chris]

The central Florida area. Near Orlando.

[Jake Johnson]

Let me ask you a question.

[Dax Shepard]

Kiss me.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, go ahead. Kissing me.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it kissing me next to Orlando?

[Chris]

No, it's not. No, I live off downtown.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Downtown Orlando. All right.

[Jake Johnson]

So, hey, Chris.

[Heather]

Yes?

[Jake Johnson]

Why doesn't Oliver like your panties?

[Chris]

Well, that's actually Part of my question, you know the first part. I guess now I need to figure out how to take control back of my house. And so how do we get him to stop doing this? And more importantly, like, how do I stop from being jealous that he won't eat mine?

I tried baiting him. I've tried baiting him with like some post workout, like sweaty underwear.

He never goes for him. It honestly hurts my feelings. And I even asked my wife to wear.

[Jake Johnson]

To wear your panties.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, this is exactly what I was going to ask you to do.

[Natalie Hollis]

You have.

[Chris]

She won't do. I just want a little.

[Jake Johnson]

She won't.

[Chris]

You know what it feels like.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, here's the thing. I'm dying to know if it's the. The fragrance, the. The endor, the odor, the.

[Jake Johnson]

It's her, man.

[Chris]

Well, y' all like mine down snacks.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, but are you wearing a boxer or a boxer brief or.

[Jake Johnson]

It's like it's too breathable, too big.

[Dax Shepard]

So I'm wondering.

A lot for even a doodle to eat. I'm wondering.

[Chris]

He just snacks on her crotch. Why can't he just snack on mine?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, listen, this is what I'm begging you guys to do. Just one day. It's very simple experiment. We'll have an answer at the. Chris throws her thong.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All day.

[Jake Johnson]

There's got to be a new thong.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, right? New brand new thong. Thong. No residual. Because these dogs can smell. You're right. Brand new thong. And then on her pair of boxer briefs all day long. And I want you to throw them on the ground and let Oliver.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a good experiment.

[Dax Shepard]

Go to town, do what he does best and just find out is it the undies or the. The pheromones.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay, so that's. We've got one really good pitch as an experiment, but we're not done. I want you to do something first of all, Chris, I love this call. Paul.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I love how you've done it too. I love that there was the second half and that's that you're jealous. I love that you've already asked her. This is good stuff, my man. This is. This makes me really happy. But here's something I would love you to think about doing. It's going to feel like I'm making a joke, but I'm being serious here. I think we got to mess with the smell of your wife's panties. Oh, so something like after she takes them off, rub some like rotten ham in there.

[Dax Shepard]

There dogs like rotten ham.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't like or like coyote.

Something that's not going to make her get an infection later, we got to be careful of. But I want something where Oliver goes, like, man, Chris's ass. I don't give a. I don't respect him. Laura just took those panties off.

[Dax Shepard]

They're mine.

[Jake Johnson]

They're mine.

[Dax Shepard]

She's mine.

[Jake Johnson]

She's mine.

[Dax Shepard]

So therefore, those panties are mine.

[Jake Johnson]

I own her and him. Those are my panties. And then my servant. Servant will pull them out of my butthole.

[Dax Shepard]

Chris.

[Jake Johnson]

Little boy Chris, who lives here to pull things out of my butt when I want him to. But what I want Oliver to do is then proudly walk over and go, like, I'll be grabbing my panties now. Take a bite and go like, Jesus Christ, Laura, what have you done, dear?

[Dax Shepard]

This smells disgusting. You've changed. I just interviewed a DEA dude who's. I was asking him how they were getting cocaine across the border, and he said what they do is. Is put it in all the Ziplocs, but then they coat it in ammonia and then co. And then cover that. And the dogs hate ammonia.

[Jake Johnson]

So truly, a little bit of ammonia, you could.

[Dax Shepard]

Every time she disrobed, she could just dip them in ammonia, pop them anywhere she wants.

[Jake Johnson]

But here's what you can also do. Put yours right next to them. So he goes, those are my panties. And then he goes, I guess I'll take seconds.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not what I wanted, but I'll take it. Beggars can't be choosing.

[Jake Johnson]

Love the one you're with, not the one you love.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. Love the one that loves you back.

[Jake Johnson]

So we've got a stinking them up. What have you tried, Chris?

[Chris]

I went to the gym. I got real sweaty. I was thinking that it was like something about the smell that maybe I just wasn't replicating. And I just dropped him on the bathroom floor before I took a shower. And, I mean, I even picked over the door, and he didn't even come anywhere near it. Now at Flora's shower, and, like, he's right there chomping at the bit, waiting at the door store to try and get a hold of those panties.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Dax Shepard]

It's got to be pretty expensive. Women's undergarments are not cheap like men's.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I gotta imagine you're.

[Jake Johnson]

Are these. Is this nice lingerie or just, like, a Target pack?

[Chris]

We're doing Amazon at this point.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Chris]

We got a subscription.

[Jake Johnson]

So she's just getting this. So Oliver's just getting them and eating them. Let me ask you a question, Chris, because this is a really weird problem that you've put thought into. What. What do you like as a guy guy? What do you have a job? What do you do day to day if somebody in Orlando you do sales. Okay, so from office or from home?

[Chris]

Out and about?

[Jake Johnson]

Never what I think somebody's telling me the issue they're having with you know when you go like, man, I wonder what that Willie Loman was thinking about. Never what I think I bet he's thinking about his dog. Oliver's eating his wife's panties but won't eat his. And I bet that's hurting his feelings.

[Dax Shepard]

Never have I had a door to door salesman knock on the door and I open, I thought this, this guy's probably dealing with a panic aper that.

[Jake Johnson]

The great and deep down he's going, hey, Oliver, I've done things like going to the gym got really stinky. Why won't my dog. That's where you become unique, my man.

[Dax Shepard]

I think you would be a lot more confident as a salesman if.

[Chris]

My sales calls.

[Jake Johnson]

No, but I think you would sell way more if Oliver desired your underpants.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think if the last thing you saw before you left to get in the car to go make a sale was him devouring your crotch part. Yeah, yeah. And the gusset.

[Jake Johnson]

Your wife was like, oh God, I gotta pull Chris's underpants out of Oliver's buttigan. And you're like, I gotta go to work.

[Dax Shepard]

I got some, I got some deals to close. All right, units to move.

[Jake Johnson]

I guess I smell so good. Oliver can't help it.

[Chris]

So here's another embarrassing tidbit. I was practicing baseball with my 8 year old in the backyard and I guess I missed some of it. And he, he swings about and he looks down, he goes dead. Are those moms annoyed underwear? And I, I just froze. I had no idea what to do, what to say to my 8 year old because it, it is in fact his mom's underwear in the backyard. And I'm just like, no, no, they're not. And we just, you know, brush. Never again.

[Jake Johnson]

Just to a weird ch.

[Dax Shepard]

Deny reality a little bit. He's like, so those aren't mom's underpants?

[Jake Johnson]

That look like mom underpants.

[Dax Shepard]

So now we got a much bigger problem on our hands. Whose underwear in our yard. You how scary that is.

[Jake Johnson]

So first piece of advice, you got to go back to the boy and go, I was wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Those were moms on these.

[Chris]

That's traumatizing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, but Chris, here's where we're softly at.

We've got this idea of you get a male stripper thong and wear that. Or get underpants at least the size of hers as best you can. And she. He, for a week, tries boxer briefs just to see if there's something about this, the smug, the snugness of the.

[Dax Shepard]

Panties, size of the meal.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. That it might change it for him. And if it does, easy solution. We've got the idea of putting a little bit of ammonia on her underpants.

[Dax Shepard]

I like that one a lot.

[Jake Johnson]

And maybe a little bit of turkey in yours. I wouldn't be afraid to.

[Dax Shepard]

Turkey chili.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Hormel turkey chili.

[Jake Johnson]

Or how about next time you go to the gym, put a tiny piece of pepperoni under your sack so it really juices in there.

[Dax Shepard]

Marinate it.

[Jake Johnson]

Maybe we. Actually, here's my pitch. Maybe we start working on your smell, maybe your underpants, these boxer briefs, you know, that part of your leg between the top leg and ball, that is like a little shelf.

What if we throw, like, juices in there? A little turkey, a little ham, a.

[Dax Shepard]

Piece of cheese, some brochu.

Just some mozzare.

[Jake Johnson]

Mozzarella.

Nothing bad, just the good stuff. Mozzarella, not cheddar.

[Dax Shepard]

I need you to go to an Italian import store, get a nice. Put it on your inner leg.

[Jake Johnson]

The best one.

[Dax Shepard]

Get a nice buffalo mozzarella, smear it all over your p. This.

Then take a baguette and shove it up your ass. You be his dog. What's kill the little doy? You're a man. You're my son. Stop crying.

[Jake Johnson]

Stop calling podcast.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my dog Oliver, you.

[Jake Johnson]

When I was a boy, there would be no Oliver. So here's. Here's what I'm thinking on that, though. For real, Chris. What if we really cook your smell up and we bring hers down? Because all we need to do is get Oliver hooked on yours. And then slowly, once he eats one, take the cheese out, then take the pepperoni out. And in the end, he goes, you know what? I gotta say, I kind of like this too. And you go, it ain't bad, my man.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you might want to start a cycle. Antibiotics as well as you're doing this. I mean, that's a lot of food. A lot of food in your.

[Jake Johnson]

Remember Charlie Sheen in that new doc just said, turn the page or the man menu.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, turn the menu. Or the ice cube up the ass. Either is applicable here. In fact, we need to get Charlie on the phone. You have this settled in minutes.

[Jake Johnson]

But this idea of. At a certain point he had had enough sex with women. He just decided to turn the menu. That's what I want to do to Oliver here.

[Dax Shepard]

What's on the backside?

[Jake Johnson]

What's on. And you're on the backside. So how do we get him going? I like his smell too. You've been to the gym. It's not working. What do you think about adding a little bit of cold cuts down there?

[Heather]

There.

[Dax Shepard]

How do you and Heather or Laura's diet? Maybe.

[Chris]

Maybe post. After I take them off. Maybe we can rub a little something on there so I don't got to wear it all day.

[Jake Johnson]

That's fair.

[Chris]

Especially with the idea of swapping undergarments with Laura for a week and seeing what happens.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's gonna answer a lot of questions. Right out of the gates.

[Jake Johnson]

Dax. That's something I'm kind of interested in. Are you guys eating differently?

[Heather]

No.

[Chris]

We eat the same stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're using the same.

[Chris]

We have a bidet at home, so we.

[Dax Shepard]

We.

[Chris]

We both wash pretty well.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Okay. You guys are doing well. You got a bidet?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. You can get them pretty cheap.

[Dax Shepard]

I got scared when you said your underwear is a. A subscription model.

[Jake Johnson]

There's bidets on.

[Dax Shepard]

You can get to this bidet. Rules out all that. You're in high cotton.

[Jake Johnson]

So.

What are you thinking here, Chris? We've given you a couple.

[Dax Shepard]

Which one are you leaning towards? You. You're saying you. You. You're open to wearing. Wearing a very tiny.

[Jake Johnson]

He feels open to all of it. He also said he would be willing to do the scent. He just doesn't want to cook in the juices, which I think is fair.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Chris]

At the end of the day, I just want to be desired.

[Heather]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

Don'T we all.

[Jake Johnson]

Is it? Isn't that the whole thing? Chris?

[Chris]

It really is. And it's hurting my feelings that he's not choosing me, so I'm willing to try anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, now I want to just ask potentially.

Problematic question, please. Which is what? You might have to ign. How do you feel about your dog being gay? I wouldn't care. I'm just. Had he always. I can imagine this call going another way. It's like, oh, my Oliver only eats my underwear. My wife's delicious joints are sitting right next to it. He's not interested. And Oliver's into dudes.

[Jake Johnson]

So you're kind of asking, like, maybe just view. Oliver's like your bro and you both like the same woman.

[Dax Shepard]

Both like, love what's happening with your wife.

[Chris]

Got a whole other problem there but.

[Jake Johnson]

It'S kind of like hey man, I get you. Oliver. We like the same stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

I see you.

[Jake Johnson]

I see you.

[Dax Shepard]

But we have a boundaries conversation.

[Jake Johnson]

But so those. That's why it's two different problems. One is how do we get Oliver to stop eating the underpants and two, what you let out with Chris that I believe or at least what I jumped on was how do we get Oliver to like my panties too?

[Heather]

Well guys that's the more important is.

[Jake Johnson]

Really bad for dogs.

[Dax Shepard]

So yeah. So maybe we should settle on like.

[Heather]

How do we stop the dog.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't this. I love this Natalie. This is so consistent with people like you know the rule in in in cinema is you can kill a million people, even kill some children. You shan't kill a dog.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So Natalie heard all this stuff. We're putting his life in jeopardy with the food products in his groin. She doesn't care at all. We told Heather to go in unlimited saunas without hydrating. Does not worry. Keep advising.

[Jake Johnson]

Doesn't care.

[Dax Shepard]

Here's the dog who's already successfully eaten a ton of underwear right out doesn't it probably cleans him out. Talk about fiber.

[Jake Johnson]

It's great.

[Dax Shepard]

And Natalie has to interject totally right?

[Natalie Hollis]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I like it. You're worried right about if it's not.

[Jake Johnson]

Digest I know it comes right out his butt then Chris has to pull it out at a playdate.

[Dax Shepard]

If he switches to male underwear and it's big.

[Heather]

It's a bigger blockage.

[Jake Johnson]

That's interesting.

[Heather]

And he's going to get.

[Jake Johnson]

I got you. So what do you think Chris? Do you want to do pitches on how to and then. And look, Natalie's not wrong but if that's not what we want to talk about, we don't have to. Do you want to pitch We've given you some options of how we could get Oliver liking your underpants. You want to live there or you want to try to also figure out a pitch of how do we cut this addiction off?

[Chris]

Well, I mean I definitely don't want him to get hurt and I don't want any hate mail coming my way for feeding the dog panties. So let's help me cut it off.

[Jake Johnson]

But at the end of this are you secretly. Because you know if at the end of the day you don't want the hate mail but then you just email him, guess what? He likes my panties now it's the pepperoni. I'm not doing a follow up. I'm happy about that result but you know we're wasting a good follow up here, babe.

[Dax Shepard]

And at the risk of providing a not funny solution, I mean, how tall is this doodle? Clearly we could have a hamper on a shelf. Yeah. I mean, we get these. We get these undies in a way.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Natalie Hollis]

Does she?

[Dax Shepard]

Laura just doesn't want to be inconvenienced. She's in the bathroom, she takes her underwear off to take a shower. She's like, I gotta walk in the other room and put it up on the shelf.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I'll tell you what, if a dog's eating her underpants, shouldn't she want to put them away? She got the underpants in front of kids.

[Chris]

We've definitely become better dog owners as we've gone along and eating them less frequently.

[Dax Shepard]

You need to get one of those bear proof trash cans they have at campgrounds.

That's where Lauren keeps all of her underwear.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So that's what I'm saying. The real crux of this, he's not call. He can fix that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

The real crux he just said is I'm just jealous. So. Natalie, I hear you, but.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

We'll deal with the comments.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

People are going to get mad. You're right. It's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

What do you think about. What do you like more? You wearing small panties and your wife wearing big panties or you and we got to make sure. Sure the ammonia won't make your wife sick. But that's on you, sir. Putting a one tiny drop in them.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I learned his lesson quick.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. It's the same thing with like kids who suck their thumb and you put something nasty on it, they just go like, whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

Ryosin.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Was that poison?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yikes, man. What we're looking for Oliver to do.

[Dax Shepard]

Is going, Jesus, Laura, change this hobby.

[Jake Johnson]

I used to love eating her. The vagina parts of her under it tastes disgusting.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like cleaning equipment.

[Chris]

For Oliver's safety, Laura and I both be in small panties.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

So that's fair.

[Dax Shepard]

So that'll be fun on a lot of levels.

[Jake Johnson]

Agreed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Have you ever worn a tiny panty?

[Chris]

I haven't, but I. I guess I'm.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm.

[Chris]

I'm about to start.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, first follow up, let's hear what.

[Dax Shepard]

You think of Chris. I put my mom's underwear on at one point.

[Jake Johnson]

I put my sister's underpants on when I was growing up.

[Natalie Hollis]

Your.

[Jake Johnson]

Who's my sister's?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I think it's very common for a guy to just go like, I want to see how these feel.

[Jake Johnson]

I like them.

[Dax Shepard]

I did Too. It made me horny.

I mean most things did at 14, but it was. Wasn't hard.

[Jake Johnson]

It made me over. It was not. It was.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you want another stab at that answer?

[Chris]

No, I'll stick with it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

So.

What are you gonna do here, Chris? Are you gonna do the small underpants for the both of you? Are you also gonna play with stinking hers up and maybe pepperoni in yours? Floor is yours, sir. Let's hear what we're gonna do here. How do we in? Because then I'm going to. I'm going to need a follow up on this.

[Chris]

I honestly I think I just want one.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Chris]

If I get one where he takes a bite out of mine, that's it. I'm satisfied, we never have to talk about it again. So yeah, I'm willing to put a little ammonia on hers. Get mine nice and you know, nice and tasty. And then just see if he leave him out. And if he does, it can be done forever.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Put it to bed.

[Jake Johnson]

So then what if we do a full on sting operation where we leave them out and you're hiding in the room. So Natalie's happy to. He doesn't get of. But once he bites at yours and pull him, you go like Oliver.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Well, I thought you were going to suggest something else which is like run some B roll. I want video of the dog making a decision.

[Jake Johnson]

Do you have a ring camera?

[Dax Shepard]

You have an iPhone?

[Chris]

We don't.

[Dax Shepard]

Cell phone.

[Chris]

But I can't. We can set up a camera.

[Jake Johnson]

But if you could set up a little camera on him and leave the underpants out with a sign that says Chris and a sign that says Laura.

[Dax Shepard]

That's true. Because they're gonna be inside.

[Jake Johnson]

It's like those old Pepsi versus Coke.

[Dax Shepard]

Or. Or if. If too much to ask. Maybe you wear blue, she wears pink. It's just so we know that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, but I. I kind of like the idea of them looking exactly the same. Okay, that's fair. So that the dog goes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we don't need more variables.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But I like this idea of Oliver going, deep down I eat her panties, not his. Cuz it's disgusting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Cuz he's a dude and I wouldn't eat Chris's underpants for all the money in the world. And then all of a sudden him go going there's two pair of underpants. Which one's Chris's?

[Dax Shepard]

They must both be hers is what I'll be thinking.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And then one smells like a little bit like cleaning supplies. The other One might smell like pepperoni. And once he does it, you gotta say, you just ate my underpants.

[Dax Shepard]

Joke's on you, my friend. Basically, just chow down on my undies.

[Jake Johnson]

We're basically just trying to shame a dog into things. Dogs will get you.

[Dax Shepard]

He's gonna feel so stupid, Chris.

[Jake Johnson]

He's gonna go like this. Right on. Cool. Tastes just as good.

[Chris]

I'm told, on the blind taste test.

[Jake Johnson]

We'll record it. Will you send it to us? And then make sure. And this is for all the audience, too. Don't let the dog eat that underpants.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Chris]

No, we will not. We love Oliver and Danger.

[Jake Johnson]

And then you're going to start after this. You and the wife are making a deal. No underpants on the floor.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, just send a big congratulations to Laura on our behalf.

[Jake Johnson]

Real jealous. We're all jealous. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Good for her.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Honest to God, let her know that we have nothing but respect. I wish a dog. I wish anything in the world wanted to eat.

[Dax Shepard]

My congrats on whatever's happening.

[Jake Johnson]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

It's working.

[Jake Johnson]

Can't relate the feeling.

[Dax Shepard]

She has never felt anything.

[Chris]

I'm telling you. I spent too much time thinking about it, man.

[Jake Johnson]

I get it, Chris. Hey, will you follow up with us? And good luck, my man.

[Chris]

Thank you. I definitely will. Thanks for taking a call, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Great meeting you, Chris.

Sweet.

[Jake Johnson]

Jesse here. That's it for calls for this episode.

[Natalie Hollis]

But Jake and Dax started chatting and we thought it'd be silly not to include it. So we've got a little mini armchair expert for you at the end of this episode. Enjoy.

[Jake Johnson]

I gotta give you my hot take because I can't keep it in because it's stupid and simple.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good, good, good.

[Jake Johnson]

I want you to make another movie.

[Dax Shepard]

You do?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, dude.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, wait. So.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, so I watched Hit and Run.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

Love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Had you ever seen it like Houston's? No. Don't you do.

[Jake Johnson]

When we had talked.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I thought I had watched it.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

But I had this with the Sopranos.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really? You thought you saw it during the pandemic.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like, I'm going to rewatch the Sopranos. And then I was like, motherfucker, this is not a rewatch. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Jake Johnson]

I think I had seen the trailers enough.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I know you. And then it was like. And I'd seen that Bradley Cooper.

[Dax Shepard]

Sopranos.

[Jake Johnson]

No, we're going on hit and Run.

[Dax Shepard]

Let me just say if. If, like, someone said, you gotta. You gotta choose four things. High probability to just guess about Jake.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Having never asked him on that List of four things would be like, he loves the Sopranos. Certainly watch it every Sunday night.

[Jake Johnson]

Never saw it until 2020. Wow. And of course, loved it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh. Watched Hit and Run, then watched Chips back to back.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my goodness. Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

Loved them both. Really love Hit and Run. Really love you as an action director. Director.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

In a way that I did not expect.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

The comedy we were texted about, the bits of Hit and Run. They hold up. They're really funny. Yeah. The sweetness, the romance stuff, I was like, yeah. You know, a guy like you, you know, you could do that in your sleep. But I've also directed an Action's Hard as Hell.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, dude, it.

[Jake Johnson]

You crushed it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

The. The biking, the driving, and then you. Then I also watched Idiocracy just to watch you as an actor again. Huh. Because I was like, you know how much I love that movie again.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But I. I just wanted to now see Dax.

[Dax Shepard]

And when you were watching it, when you're like, I haven't seen this either.

[Jake Johnson]

I've never seen Dax. I met Dax at our.

[Dax Shepard]

You realize after this whole thing, you had me confused for Zach Braff the whole time.

[Jake Johnson]

Do you get breath?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. I was. I was.

[Jake Johnson]

No way.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Three times a week the first 10 years I was on TV. I think since I've gotten bigger, it stops. And as we've gotten older, we look more different. But if you watch an episode of Scrubs, my uncle calls me. He's like, dude, I thought I was watching you on a show for, like, four episodes. I'm like, what are you talking about? And I went and watched. I'm like, yeah. And you know people that. People say they look like each other? They never think that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it.

[Jake Johnson]

So the lot of people say I look like a lot of people. I don't buy any. There's one guy I buy, and that's David Kumholtz. David Koltz. And I actually do look like we're very different.

[Dax Shepard]

Very different.

[Jake Johnson]

We could be brothers. And we've reached out into. Talked. We're buddies.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

There's no. Like, we. I'm just like. And when I look at him, I'm looking. It's like I'm looking at my brother. I'll be like, all right, man. We look good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That's how we look.

[Dax Shepard]

And I love crum holes. And there must be something in this genetic package where you also have similar voices in that they're gravely and charactery. And there's there's like a texture to both of your voice.

[Jake Johnson]

I want to play brothers with him so bad because we are such different things of a similar. It just feels like a up like we could be car salesmen like in the car salesman thing. We have such different roles.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But I like him a lot at.

[Dax Shepard]

The height of this bra thing where it was happening non stop. And then weirdly, I think, I think without a paddle in In Garden State had come out in the same month. Okay, so I'm getting stopped. Like, I loved your movie. I'm like, oh my God, thank you. Like, get that thing with the wallpaper in your shirt.

[Jake Johnson]

That's garden.

[Dax Shepard]

But anyways, at the height of that I, I, I ran into him somewhere and, and he get, he got it a ton as well. And I was like, all right, here's my pitch. The movie's called Nature vs. Nurture and and we're identical twins separated at birth. I'm raised by hillbillies in the south and you're raised by New York Jews.

[Jake Johnson]

The best idea. Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

It changed us that what happened at the time he had way more heat than I had and so he was like, oh yeah, cute idea. Kind of ignored it. And then as you're such a good years went on that, that that scale right size. And I ran into him and he was like, we should do that movie. And I'm like, man, Hollywood is.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I should that could. I would steal that and do it with Krumholtz.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, maybe we should somehow do. It's a study of four.

[Jake Johnson]

You know, it'd be really fun to do it as a TV show and everybody gets 30 minutes of their story. You do it like a big fake documentary and everybody's story is a one off doc style.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

So that you. It's so easy in terms of production.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

So you can jump into the lifes a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I love that. And I just interviewed a twins expert and there was a case in Brazil or Colombia where there were two sets of identical twins born at a hospital. And one of the twins went with another twin back to the countryside and incredible. Two other ones went into the city and then they discovered this. So that what they got to study based on this is like, obviously they were like hillbilly types. And there was this point. But then when you got the twins together, it was like they had all this.

[Jake Johnson]

You saw three identical strangers.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God.

[Jake Johnson]

Loved it. Yeah. But I want to go back to you because you're very good at hosting and the reason I watch all these and got into. Because I don't do any research when people come on our show because it's a bit fest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But when I met you was doing Armchair, I was like, you came out with our dads have something in common. Blah. And I was like, oh, he did homework.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So as we've gotten to know each other, I've known you in this era of Dax, Armchair Dax.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

I didn't know you as writer, director, actor Dax.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

So I've really gotten to know this guy's brain. And I love the way you're playing this guy. You've influenced me. It's really fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

I think there's a lot of meat on the bone, and I think it's a big mistake for you to fully walk away. I wouldn't obviously stop what you're doing.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

You're killing this field. I think there's another movie for you to direct. I think there could be another. Just a soft pitch, similar to the twins thing. A. A guy who used to do NASCAR type backyard with his dad driving around, moved away to the big city, change, his dad dies, he goes, goes home, hears about an old race, an indie with a lot of heart. But really what it's about is these cars going around the track and what that culture means.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But it's a guy who's coming back and then his new family sees this and goes like, oh, that's the part of dad that sits quietly.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

That's the World War II guy who got home and doesn't tell us stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But that part of his life there was a lot great, but there was also, you know, some abuse and some dark shit. But what was great, great was around.

[Dax Shepard]

That track when he was on stage.

[Jake Johnson]

Cuz when you shoot that world and it's driving and it's biking, I was like. And we've kind of talked about our character types and what we can do and what we. I'm like, nobody else does that. Well, nobody hits it the way you hit it.

[Dax Shepard]

As you know, you. When you're leaning up to shoot a movie, it. There's untold stresses. Right? There's like all these cast stresses, there's money stresses, there's crew stresses. You meet someone you love and then they don't sign on to do your flavors, wardrobe, whatever. The thing is. But the thing that I just was up for weeks before Hit and Run was like, I have a million dollars. I have four car chases.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

How do I shoot you Made that.

[Jake Johnson]

Movie for a million dollars.

[Dax Shepard]

One million dollars. And so in 2012, so how much? 2012, so 1.4.

[Jake Johnson]

So what is that made in total now? A fortune?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think a fortune. I think at the theater it maybe made like 15 or 16 million or something like that. And then it had a. You know.

[Jake Johnson]

So you've made a fortune off of that.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't make a fortune off of it. I think you know the people that just a dude wrote a check for it from. I didn't know.

[Jake Johnson]

You didn't. Okay. I thought you had self financed it.

[Dax Shepard]

No. So someone else paid the million dollars and I think maybe at the end of the day I owned 20% of that money.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay, now I understand. Yes. Okay. So I've had those.

[Dax Shepard]

And then Panay. Do you know Panay? Andrew Panay?

[Jake Johnson]

No. Okay, I might know.

[Dax Shepard]

Great producer. Wedding Crashers. Yeah, he's incredible. And then so yeah, he owned a chunk and I understand. And the cast owned a bunch.

[Jake Johnson]

Understood.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So it just got on Netflix and I was like, I wonder if I will see. Yeah, no, no.

[Jake Johnson]

But you know, but the movie's good and you are truly too gifted to stop that journey. So whatever that journey is, you know, you and I are always talking about like we're going towards it right now my phase is like I'm gonna see if I fall in love with just the acting side.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, all right, let me just pursue this. But it's got to be my style. I gotta be home a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like I had my weird rules when I was watching you I was like, that's another thing we both do.

[Dax Shepard]

But how do you like directing compared to acting? Cuz I was just on a set last week. I had a 12 hour shoot day as an actor. First time in five and a half years. I was telling you about it and a. It was wonderful. It was so fun. But I was reminded that 99% of the day you're not doing anything and it that doesn't work with my temperament. That makes so directing I love you get there and you are busy the entire 12 hours.

[Jake Johnson]

So I got a question for you. For you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because about me, which is different but I want to go to you on it. Cuz I'm loving the acting as long as my schedule is being treat like I come in, I shoot my two scenes. Yeah, I'm gone at noon.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I got there at 6am If I could do that. And while you're there you're like oh I'm so geeked up. And then once my brain starts going like, I might count bricks on a wall, they're like, thanks for coming. We'll see you tomorrow morning. And you go like, I'll just walk around for New York. And then when I'm done, the next day, I go right to the airport, which is manic. Sitting in the lounge, get on a plane, and I'm like, this was so crazy, right? It was so fast.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I would be on four TV shows at once if I could walk from stage to stage stage and do the scene and then walk into the.

[Jake Johnson]

Here's something I want to pitch to you. Then possibly you're saying you like the acting of it, but what if you're.

[Dax Shepard]

Not the lead.

Dude? As I. As I was. It's so funny how. What. What you start off wanting to do, like, I think initially. Well, a. I just want to direct. I directed a movie before that for 15,000 bucks.

[Jake Johnson]

Right. Okay. I didn't see that. That one.

[Dax Shepard]

It's insane. It's a mockumentary where I'm leaving comedy to do karate, but in real life.

[Jake Johnson]

I made a mockumentary where I'm a guy who creates a fake martial art called habata. Keep going, keep going.

[Dax Shepard]

I went on talk shows in a karate gi.

[Jake Johnson]

I pitched to Apple in a karate G.

Shirtless with a wig on. And I didn't bring.

[Dax Shepard]

We both think we're so original, by the way.

[Jake Johnson]

There's a thousand. There's not a lot of us, but there's enough of us. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So, yeah, I went on a talk show and broke boards and everything. I was challenging Chuck Norris to a fight everywhere I went. And I put a big poster of him, and I did a cross kick through this sheet of plywood. And then the first time Kristin ever saw me in real life was we were at the Teen Choice Awards. And she looks over, and there's this lanky, tall guy doing roundhouse kicks in a red GI on the. On the red carpet. And then I presented him my GI. And this is like 2000, 2007, maybe 6.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Anywho, I think most of those original thoughts were like, oh, I want to act in the things that I create so that I can do my tone as an actor.

[Jake Johnson]

Same.

[Dax Shepard]

And then as I was getting more tools and had fun stuff to play with. And the action.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

The days that I could show up on set, not go to the makeup trailer, just go to the video village.

[Jake Johnson]

You love it.

[Dax Shepard]

With my hair messed up, and just direct other people. I Was like, oh, I love the days I'm not acting.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

So I agree that. And also, look, if I had to rate myself in all these categories, like, I'm a fine actor. I'm not a great actor. I'm a fine, serviceable actor. I can be funny sometime. But I'm just here.

[Jake Johnson]

I want to.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I'm a better writer than I am an actor.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm cutting in now because we're here to help, not armchair.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay, okay, Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't agree with your assessments.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't?

[Jake Johnson]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

You are very confident. This goes back to another Jeff B. Thing. Why I love to argue with him. You, you're such a good speaker and you're confident. You said you and I were like salesmen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You'll say something.

[Dax Shepard]

Our product is our opinion.

[Jake Johnson]

You'll say something, and you'll be so sure of it that I'll be thinking it's fact.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Those are not facts.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, no, no, I know.

[Jake Johnson]

But here's what I mean by it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

You don't know the actor. You are. You're the actor. What I. What I'm falling in love with being an actor. Actor is what I love about directing is you're totally in control. That's the tone and everything. I sat on a plane with Tim Robinson, who. Love. Great guy. Known him for you. Not close, but know each other through our other friend, Bill Bungaro.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't know him in Chicago.

[Jake Johnson]

I improvised with him once in Chicago, but I would already been on tv. I came back.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

My buddy Bill, who I grew up with, was also connect. Was connected to Tim and Sam, a bunch of those guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So I'd been hearing about him forever. I. We were talking about acting versus making something, and Tim was like, it's just making stuff. And I. That's where I'd always been. Every. Even every job I'd ever had. I'm like, I'm not really an actor. I'm here so that I could be a writer and a director.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And just recently, I'm like, maybe that narrative that I created isn't totally accurate.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, again, for you, I totally disagree with you. Like, when I watch you in stuff, I'm like, activated. I text you, dude, I'll be watching something. You pop up. And I'm like, I'm, dude, you need to act all the time for me.

[Jake Johnson]

Same way with you, dude.

[Natalie Hollis]

Oh, boy.

[Jake Johnson]

But so. But when I'm. But also when I'm watching you, what I'm watching is. I go, okay, so this is very high level writing. And if you watch chips. I was like, he was doing a big studio comedy.

[Dax Shepard]

He.

[Jake Johnson]

Meaning he dealt with all those notes. He dealt with a studio and had molesting set pieces. But I was like, but like, you know, with action. And I was like, this is a lot to write. Why isn't there a Dax Shepard and two other names who are doing the lion share of the writing as you're also directing your biggest thing by far.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I was 25 million. Felt like 200 million.

[Jake Johnson]

It's huge.

[Dax Shepard]

I have a Russian arm and a Porsche to chase cars with.

[Jake Johnson]

But I was like, oh, this is. I was like, remember you said on our walks, when I talk, you'll leave. And you go, that's how I sound to others.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Jake Johnson]

In doing my Dax Shepard marathon.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like, this is how I appear to others. You're taking on so much. I would say if you're going to do another and you're like, I'm going to direct.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

At your level now, you can get two of the best writers who, if you reached out, would go like. And you know what you're going to do as a producer and a director, make sure it's exactly how you want it. And you can get into the final draft, too. But they're craft and plot. You're having meetings, they're coming to you.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, here's where I'll have a big argument. So, yeah, I'll not be in it. I'm fine. Fine with that. I have directed things I haven't written and it doesn't work for me.

[Jake Johnson]

But I'm not saying don't put a major footprint in it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm saying when you're hosting your nine successful podcasts and you are busy as hell.

[Dax Shepard]

Yo.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, first draft.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, someone should crack that first draft.

[Jake Johnson]

Then you come in, but before you shoot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You're massaging every single line of everything. Because. Because that's okay. That's what directors do.

[Dax Shepard]

But don't you like when you're writing? I do so much of the math.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

For directing while I'm writing.

[Jake Johnson]

100%.

[Dax Shepard]

And even, like, I have music cues in my scripts. And. And I was. I was telling you to watch the Scorsese doc.

[Jake Johnson]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

Fascinating. But at one point, he finally joined and co wrote, I think, Goodfellas. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

So it says on the script, freeze frame on Hank Hill.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Cut to freeze frame of trunk. Oh, Open. So it's like, normally he storyboards the. Out of everything, and he did that. But when he got on that set, he's like, I didn't have to do anything. I had written it all. Yes. And that's what I benefit.

[Jake Johnson]

What I would pitch to you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Is have an idea that you're like, I'm gonna be in it. I'm gonna be the dad.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right. Right.

[Jake Johnson]

Or I'm gonna be the men or whatever. I'm gonna be in it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because you're an actor. Yeah. And for that, I'm free. But also, I'm gonna give that thing that I do. And on those moments, I'm going to have this other person who I really respect directing me. We've already talked what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to wear two hats at once. I'm going to act my ass off.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

When I do my production draft and we get ready to shoot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

The script's good, but now I'm writing this song. Here, cut to this. So that when I'm on set, it's ready for me as a director.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But they're also on set. When somebody says something, you go, there's a little bit of an issue. They go, can we punch this up? And you go, I'm doing the car chase thing. You look at the pages, you go, good, I need this line. But their main job is that. Yeah, yeah, I think. I think you are.

[Dax Shepard]

You've. You've isolated my biggest weakness as a human, which is delegating. Trusting, trusting, trusting, trusting. Trust. Humans, relationships.

[Jake Johnson]

Telling you from.

[Dax Shepard]

I was trying to pray this morning.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I have to do my three prayers every morning as a drunk. And I don't believe in any of them, but I've been doing them for 21 years. And so this morning, I was, like, actively really trying. I was like, what is the hang up? You know, like in this prayer, I'm like, I turn my wall of my life over to you. You know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, the essence is, even if there was a God, I wouldn't trust his plan for me. He'd probably want me to be, like, meek or something else.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm not into you, my man.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was like, oh, my God. That's my. Probably my main barrier is I. I wouldn't even trust God.

[Jake Johnson]

God, look, it's cool up here and all.

[Dax Shepard]

Not for me. I'm going to have it. Because if you don't trust your dad.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that makes a real indelible mark.

[Jake Johnson]

I think. Here's a difference. By the end, I did trust my dad.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, now, now that he's dead, I do.

[Jake Johnson]

No. But by the, the last few years, I feel like the balance changed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And in the end, my thing is, what I really learned is people change. And that's the big thing that's with me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And been good for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Where I'm like, oh, we can change a lot in the 90 years you're here.

[Dax Shepard]

I was insanely unfair because I continued to punish him the rest of his life for the childhood.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And now that he's dead, I think constantly, I'm like, oh, my dad hugged and kissed me endlessly. Who got that?

[Jake Johnson]

And meant it.

[Dax Shepard]

Meant it. Totally adored me. Wanted to snuggle me.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, looked at me and was so proud I was his. And I missed a lot of that. And it breaks my heart.

[Meline]

Dude.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Then I hold my little babies and I just. I know. I have to admit that's what he felt about me.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm like, well, the thing that I feel about that, that I can relate to is my dad had a moment, we were talking about self hatred and it wasn't my self hatred. It was somebody we know in the family who was going through a self hating period. And I was like, I don't know what to do, how to help. And he goes, they're just too young. He goes, I mean, when you're my age, when you've done what I've done, it's fair to hell hate yourself, but at your age, you can still change it. And I realize in having kids, I was like, oh, these are the years. If you these up, you hate yourself forever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I want to go back to you and I want to keep it professional because we're here to help. Armchair.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you for saying all that. I really, 100%, I really love it. I do really do desire to direct at this point again. But it would have again, I don't want to do it with my kids are young. Like I. I still want you also.

[Jake Johnson]

But listen, okay. You. There's a lot. When we talk, sometimes games, it's as if that was another world that might come back.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's true.

[Jake Johnson]

It's. I don't know what's the point. I'm doing and all that is true. But because of the way you move, you got into podcasts, you created a whole thing. You went really fast, really hard. Awesome. Never stop that.

[Dax Shepard]

My only speed.

[Jake Johnson]

But you've created rare air. It's awesome. Great. There's just meat on the original, original dream. And the original dream has morphed into something else that's also great.

But that one's not done. And I didn't realize that until I went through the marathon because I. Your opinion so strong that I believe you.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right. And I believe me.

[Jake Johnson]

When we're hiking, you'll be like, I'm just not that good. Where I'm at is this level. And I'm like, that's right. Cool.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was like, this guy's honest about it.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, but he's really smart and he's really hard working. And I. And I'm like, well, I'm watching it. And I go like, no, I think he's a really good actor. It was also, this is fun. This is a big project. I was like, this is. Well, this. I've done action. This is really hard. Yeah, this looks great.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, yeah, I'm not saying it's. You know, I saw this great Philip Seymour Hoffner thing where he goes, we all make stuff, and we want audience members eyes to explode and be like, now I've experienced art. I'll never watch anything again.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That's not the case, unfortunately. Nobody dies from their satisfaction of watching what we do. They just go on with their day. But I was like, I don't know why Dax is talking in the past tense. He's got more in him and everything he's learned in this new era.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm excited for him to put in. I do think a big thing should be delegation, and I think a big thing should be how do I give all of this so that my time is still valuable. I'm not burning out and all. And that's what I'm trying to do with acting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

What if I'm just an actor actor here. What if I'm not thinking about the sound like a psycho.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then I go, yeah, that's enjoyable.

[Dax Shepard]

Or while we're shooting in that room first, pulling back, and we're ultimately gonna do the wide and five.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. How about this? Yeah, for this. Now, if I direct again, then I get to do that. But if I direct again, I can't be the lead and I can't be the sole writer, and I can't be the real producer doing it all.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Can I tell you, there have been evolutions of this. So. So, yes, at some point, it was probably 6ish. Years ago, where I said, I, you know, I love the podcast so much financially, it's fucking awesome. And I'm like, okay, this is what I'm doing, and I'm delighted to do it. What a dream job. And I, I, I started getting the tattoos I've always wanted but didn't get because I hate getting interested. Makeup over them. Right. It's like, I started at 18, but I stopped when I was an actor. So I was like, I'm going to resume this thing I wanted to do.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And also, it's this kind of declaration. Declaration that I'm done because I don't want to sit in a makeup chair for two hours to cover my. And that initial decision, I can acknowledge, was at least half driven by self protection, which is like, I came out here begging you to like me.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm so sick of begging you to like me. I want to say you, I don't need you and I'm done.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So there was this huge cathartic feeling of being able to say, I'm done to this place. I don't need you to pick me ever again.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

It felt very healing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. I believe.

[Dax Shepard]

Just don't need to beg you to like me. Room with 15 other people. And then I beg that you like me on that day. Yes. And then I beg that the audience goes and likes me. That treadmill I wanted to get off of.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And so I got off of it. And probably I wasn't fully acknowledging how much of it was driven by. By that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Weird. Wound and hurt. It's like this job is like high school in some weird way for your whole life.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. I don't agree. But keep. Well, I mean, I don't want to interrupt you, but I have thoughts. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And nor do I degree Agree today. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That's what I mean.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. But six years ago, I did agree.

[Jake Johnson]

But by the way, six years ago, that, that treadmill you did too, by the way. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, even a few years ago, we were hiking, and you, you felt like me.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, I just, I need to be done.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't live where I'm waiting for people to say I'm enough or I'm right or no.

[Jake Johnson]

But for me, it wasn't I'm. It's for me, it's a little different. It's not for other people to say it. It's for me on the inside to say I did that thing right. So, therefore, mom, can I stay?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Can I stay in the house?

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly.

[Jake Johnson]

And so for me, what Ended up happening is probably Prozac.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Do you know, probably after Jeff, all of a sudden, like, a slight change where I. I go, well, that treadmill's gone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That. Our life as actors. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't feel that hurt anymore. No.

[Jake Johnson]

But also our life as actors when we started as guys who don't have any connections. You're the biggest rat in town. You'll do anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

The amount of hustle and grind I had in those early days.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you're just like. And also, Jake, I don't know how quickly, like, I was in the groundings for years. Everyone had an agent.

[Jake Johnson]

I didn't have an agent. I was one of the last. I couldn't even get a. I'm like.

[Dax Shepard]

How am I going to get this job? I can't get.

[Jake Johnson]

I lived in New York. Ask people, like, how did you get this agent? Say, I lived in New York City when Gethard and Bobby Mon. All these guys were starting to pop. I couldn't even get on the house teams. Yeah. I would be like, you guys are starting to work. I'm getting kicked off of improv teams.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

So then I moved away because I was so mad. Then I went to Chicago. I had nothing. Then I came out to LA. I was in my late 20s. I had no commercial agent, nothing. And I. I'm like, I'm going to be 30 soon.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Same dude. What the.

[Dax Shepard]

Is happening? Punked at, like, I think 29.

[Jake Johnson]

I got. I think new girl.

[Dax Shepard]

I was 28 here in 95. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So it's a grind. But what I think. What I think from the outside with you is the thing when you want to get the tattoos and stopped is you're like, I can't play that game anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because that game, it is. You have to.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm too sensitive.

[Jake Johnson]

So. By the way, I just recently of the day got an I don't audition anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'll take meetings, but I don't audition. I haven't auditioned in years and. But I'm fine not to take those parts because I don't even know if I want to do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I got a call a couple weeks ago saying, we want you to audition for this. And the producer is a legit old friend.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So he's like, I want you in this thing. Would you do it? And I was like, I don't. I don't even know if I can be in the thing with my family schedule.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I'm not going to play my jigsaw. I'm Just going to say yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Doing it actually is the worst idea I've ever done.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Jake Johnson]

All of a sudden, I'm back to being like, I can do another one. And I'm like, oh, it just brings out the worst.

[Dax Shepard]

It woke up the, like, why not the fear?

[Jake Johnson]

And then. So you're not in consideration for that part, but we like you for another. I was like, then who is why? And I go, what the happening? Yes. That whole.

[Dax Shepard]

I've had that. So. Dude, I've had so many, like, it's yours to lose situations, and then you and I lose it. If you tell me it's mine to lose, I will lose it.

[Jake Johnson]

But that whole part of my career.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm like, so I'm not. When we were talking, like, why don't you. So I'm not getting more. Who cares?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But the actual dream that started back when you were a kid was I want to make things that are really funny that people love. And I think I could do it. And I think that exists for you right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I think I told you so. I got asked to come do this show. I happen to love that show. It happened to be with an actor I've idolized for forever same. And I have finally the exact right attitude. But I'm not naive. I had to get what I got to have this attitude. Right. So the call was like, hey, do you want to do this? We'd love to have you. And I went, I could go be in a scene with my hero. I would love to go be in a scene with my hero before I die. I don't want it to make me any money.

[Jake Johnson]

Don't care.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't care if it does well. I don't care if anyone likes me. And I've never, ever, ever acted from that place of like, oh, yeah, I would love to go be in a scene with someone I like. And then when I went to do it, my morning meditation was singularly about. Your only goal today is not to be good. Your only goal today is to be easy to deal with. No power struggles, no sass in your voice, not monitoring what should be happening. I'm going to be there to be the nicest person they've ever worked with and be of service to this thing in whatever way, even if it violates.

[Jake Johnson]

What I think in some way.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the goal. Actually. Not being great. And I loved.

Was fun.

[Jake Johnson]

So it was boring, of course, but some days. So my similar. And I think we talked about this on yours A little. But we're going deeper on this one now. On it is my New York job. I didn't care about the money. It wasn't working with my hero. It was. Can I go and start seeing if I'm an actor?

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

I, I didn't really go to acting school. I don't study technique. My techniques are all made up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm talking to ghosts.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So when people.

[Dax Shepard]

My techniques are only present when you ask me what my technique is and I have to give you an answer.

[Jake Johnson]

But the reality is is I do have a lot of techniques.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And so do you. But it's all made up. And then I go, once I was doing it, I'm looking around and then some actors are really bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then some actors are doing everything wrong and they're all ego and bullshit. And you go, I don't want to be that. And my thing which I make the big mistake of is I'd rather not play if I might be that. That I don't want to be you. Like I don't like you agree.

[Dax Shepard]

A lot of the dynamics that are on set are also the dynamics of a poker table.

[Jake Johnson]

Explain.

[Dax Shepard]

Like when you're at a poker table and let's say you're not getting good cards for a while, then you're bored.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so you now you're really observing the other players and now you're starting to get angry at other players. And I hate that guy. That guy's full of and he sucks. But he got lucky on a bluff. And now I'm going to be the sheriff.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And now I'm going to play a shitty hand to with him. I know he's full of like that. All of that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

That took over when we know all you do is you play good cards.

[Jake Johnson]

That's it.

[Dax Shepard]

But I got ins snared and all this other.

[Jake Johnson]

Same with me. You get it. But you get pulled into the.

[Natalie Hollis]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And now and so like if you.

[Dax Shepard]

Go to set and go like my job is when I have ace, king, I go all in.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Or also the other part of poker is your job is also to study the table. Cuz you can win on a bluff. Yeah. But you could also go. What I'm looking at is now is my job is just to try my hardest. But I'm like, oh, this is an individual journey.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

So really my role here has nothing to do with this job. I'm on my. It's like if my whole life is a book, this is just a chapter for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right.

[Jake Johnson]

And so why would I be negative to you guys? If you're not running this the way I want it to run, I just need clauses in my contracts I can get out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And now I'm just being more honest with my deals. Being like, I suffer from depression and if it goes sideways, I don't want to be stuck. I don't want to be Nicholas Cage in Moonstruck.

[Dax Shepard]

What happened to Nicholas Cage?

[Jake Johnson]

He was so unhappy, he cut his arm off to. He's the baker. And he goes, I will find a way out. But if that's not going to happen and I have a way out. Yeah. Thanks for respecting me. I'm happy to respect you. Thanks for the way you're treating me. You're treating me for fairly and you're giving me an opportunity to do the thing that I really dreamt of doing as a kid. What a joy. And you're opposite for me. You're trying your hardest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

So all I owe to you as a scene partner is to try your hard. Okay. These camera robbers are trying your hardest. Something went wrong. That's okay. I'm also now looking and I'm like, I'm 10 years older than you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I became the old guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

When I was young, the older guys were harsh.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody's nice now.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Yeah. I was getting a little bit of that. Most of the youngers actors were younger than me.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. By the way, crews are all younger than me now. DPs are younger than me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Directors.

[Jake Johnson]

Directors. So all of a sudden, these partners that used to be the dad figures for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Who it would be the Ivan Reitman types. It would be these like, okay, now I need you there. And your thought is, you have always been here. I've always been here. And it's happening again. And unfortunately, I need to dance for you because I want to.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Now I'm like, oh, you guys are younger and you're working your ass off and. And it's now the crew's. So like gender. I'm like, it's a lot of women too. I'm like, this is another galaxy, man.

[Dax Shepard]

And back to the poker metaphor. Yes. You have to be aware of what everyone's doing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

But you can do it as a matter of fact versus a matter of judgment.

[Jake Johnson]

And that's exactly right.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the distinction for me. It's like I can still observe all this stuff and then I go like, yeah, they're probably doing the best they can. It's exactly the best.

[Jake Johnson]

That guy can play poker. Louis.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm mad at him because I'm mad at myself.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm not. Louis CK had a great bit years ago about something I just remember he said, we get so mad at each other, they're doing the best they can.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, that's what I'm putting more into it. I'm not. I'm like, everyone's doing the best they can. And then where my anger comes to, what I'm trying to do is, am I doing the best I can, or am I distracting myself with so many jobs? How about just do the best you can? And if they say it's not good enough, be like, well, I'm going to try to get better. Because now I'm committed to. I'm into this thing and I want to see if I can do it not for anyone's approval, but my own. To look back and go, was I any good at that? And at times I can go, yes. And at times you go, no, you just cheated. You did that little move because you weren't connected.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And it works, but who cares? But I know. And I go, can I actually play a pure game?

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

I talk to a lot of older actors who get to this similar spot. Like, I was. Who was I interviewing? Like an inc. Oh, oh, Josh Brolin.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Who's blown my mind a million times as an actor. And he has all the same things. And like, he. He was telling me like, yeah, this next phase for me, I want to go with no game plan, Just confidence that I can listen to somebody and I will react to accordingly.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, great.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's what I want to do. He's like, I want to do nothing and trust that I'll do plenty.

[Jake Johnson]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's kind of like a similar thing.

[Jake Johnson]

The other thing I want to do is I want to stop thinking about the audience so much. I came up on stages so much. So even if we were in a two person scene, I was slightly always cooked up because I'm like, if they're not laughing.

[Dax Shepard]

A talk show. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

If they're not exactly right. If they're not laughing, I'm gonna change. And what I'm trying to get to as an actor is it's not my job to think about these. The audience.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

It's the director's job. It's my job to think about the scene.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I'll go like, wow, man. I. If the camera was here, then it. I Think they'll like that? It's not my job to think about that. It's not my job to go. Do you think we should be doing this faster?

Because I'm thinking about, when this goes to audience, how is it going to work? As opposed to going. Nobody asked me to do that. Yes, they asked me.

[Dax Shepard]

That's Tom Cruise's job. He can think about what the audience.

[Jake Johnson]

And he's the best at.

[Dax Shepard]

And he knows.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. And he knows.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't know.

[Jake Johnson]

In closing, I'm excited to see what you do next and I'm going to.

[Dax Shepard]

Shamelessly mean that you're saying you're willing to be in 100%. Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

Without a question. I ride with you. I'm excited to see what you do. And if you don't choose me in it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

There's not a bad feeling in the world.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Jake Johnson]

As a fan.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like, there's a lot left on that bone. That's going to be a fun 15, 20 year run for you. I feel it in my bones. Oh, good. I feel it in my bones.

[Dax Shepard]

I like that.

[Meline]

Hi, guys, this is Meline. I was just listening to episode 229 with Santos and the baked goods, and I felt pretty uniquely qualified to call in on this topic. So I still live at home and my mom loves to bake, so. So she's always baking stuff and I'm bringing it into the office. And most of the office loves everything that she makes, but there's a handful of people that would always say, no, I'm good. No, I'm not trying to eat sweets right now or whatever, but you just have to wear them down and sometimes straight to their face in front of everyone. I'll just ask them what their favorite thing is. I'll go home, I'll get my mom to make. Make it, and then I bring it into the office. And then they kind of feel like they have to have it. So then they have it and then they're hooked. Once someone, every time, once someone has one of the things that she makes, then they're hooked. Every time I bring something in, they're like, oh, let me get a bite, let me get a bite. Let me get two of those. Like, is there any more left? So I think sometimes you just have to do it in front of everyone, make them feel obligated to try it and then make sure it's like their favorite thing. But you can overcome this and you just have to go one by one and knock everyone out and. And get them addicted to all the the desserts. I hope that helps. And long time listener, first time caller. Love you guys.

[Jake Johnson]

We're Here to Help is hosted by Jake Johnson and Gareth Reynolds. If you'd like to be on the show, please email us your question@ HelpfulPod gmail.com and if you want to watch video episodes of We're Here to Help, you can go to our [e-mail] hereto help pod to see our entire catalog.

[Dax Shepard]

We're Here to Help is produced by Rabbit Grim Productions executive producers Rob Hollis.

[Jake Johnson]

Jeff Porter and Natalie Hollis.

[Dax Shepard]

Associate producer Jesse Thurston. Editing, mix and match by Chris Faller.

[Natalie Hollis]

Theme song by Oliver Raleigh. The COVID artwork is by James Fosdyke, animations by Andrew Strlecki. And if you'd like to see Gareth do stand up on the road, go to garethreynolds.com Remember, all the advice given on We're Here to Help is for entertainment purposes only and all listeners should be adults and make their own decisions.

[Jake Johnson]

All video episodes of season one are available now on Patreon and season two video episodes will be available every Monday starting January 20th. Go to patreon.com heretohelpod hi, I'm Nicole Byer. Hi, I'm Sasheer Zamada and this is.

[Dax Shepard]

The podcast Best Friends.

[Jake Johnson]

And we're here at Headgum. So this is just a podcast where we just talk? Yeah, we're best friends. We talk and then we have a segment where we answer questions and queries so audience can ask questions about friendships.

[Meline]

And we can answer them to the.

[Dax Shepard]

Best of our abilities.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, we are professional friends. We are professional friends. Subscribe to Best Friends on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Cast, or wherever you get your podcasts and watch videos on YouTube. New episodes drop every Wednesday. That's the middle of a work week.

I was deeply unhelpful to you during that whole thing.

[Dax Shepard]

You are.

[Heather]

I'm really sorry. I was so.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. I was trying to be supportive. Yeah.

[Heather]

But I was like, I don't know. Reading seems pretty hard right now.

[Meline]

It's a lot.

[Natalie Hollis]

I think.

[Dax Shepard]

You did good.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you so much.

[Heather]

You're welcome.