Pastor Justice Coleman on Exploring Faith, Community and Connection

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "We're Out of Time"

Episode: Pastor Justice Coleman on Exploring Faith, Community and Connection
Host: Richard Taite
Guest: Pastor Justice Coleman
Date: October 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Richard Taite sits down with Pastor Justice Coleman, the founding pastor of Freedom Church in Los Angeles. They unpack themes of faith, mental health, community, and resilience—exploring how spiritual and emotional struggles intertwine, and how authentic connection can be a lifeline in a challenging world. With honesty and humor, the conversation ranges from deeply personal stories of addiction and healing to the practicalities of building supportive communities, all underscored by a search for hope and meaning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Community and Genuine Connection

• [00:03] Pastor Justice Coleman: “You gotta have people. And I think you can get through just about anything in life if you have the right people around you.”
• Founding Freedom Church: Pastor Justice shares how he and his wife Maria launched the church in their apartment in 2011—aimed at those skeptical, struggling, or feeling disconnected from traditional church settings.
  • The church began with seven people, most of whom “didn’t go to church, weren’t sure if God was real, but were searching for something more.” ([01:11] – [01:58])
• Innovative Outreach:
  • Laundry Love: Monthly events paying for laundry at local laundromats for anyone, “no strings attached.” This practical service created spaces for genuine relationship without pressure to convert. ([07:30])
  • Church gatherings started in an Irish pub—embracing a community-for-all ethos.

2. Faith and Mental Health Intersect

• Prevalence of Anxiety/Depression: Both Richard and Pastor Justice vulnerably share their personal struggles with mental health:
  • [15:08] Pastor Justice Coleman: “If a thousand people walk into my church, how many of them have depression or anxiety? Nine out of ten.”
  • [15:15] Richard Taite: “I’m mental. And I've got the number one mental health podcast in the country.”
• Pastor Justice’s Story: He openly recounts severe childhood struggles—OCD, ADD, dyslexia—and details a life-changing experience where, after his parents fasted and prayed for him, his academic ability and mental health “flipped” overnight.
  • [20:01-21:44] “I was a mess, dude... They fasted for three days... On the third day, they took me back and had me retake all the tests... full flip.”
• Miracle and Grace: Both share stories where faith and prayer led to seemingly miraculous change, particularly around overcoming addictions and self-destructive patterns.
  • [23:31] Richard Taite: “I look up and I go, ‘Shut up. No way.’” (after prayer led him to quit smoking nearly overnight)

3. Faith, Grace, and Truth vs. Prosperity and Punishment

• [10:00] Richard Taite: “Some churches preach prosperity, others preach punishment. How do you preach grace in a way that truly changes lives instead of just filling seats?”
• Pastor Justice debates between ‘grace and truth’, describing a God who is both loving and challenging, like a father to his children. ([10:33]–[12:36])
  • “Grace is when we get what we don’t deserve... but truth, you know?”
• He rejects both punitive and purely prosperity-focused theology, emphasizing transformation, responsibility, and love.

4. Spiritual But Not Religious: The Language Barrier

• Many people claim "spiritual, not religious." Justice affirms the validity and depth of spiritual longing outside of organized religion.
  • [13:44] Pastor Justice Coleman: “I believe I’m made for something more... But I think spiritual realm involves light and dark.”
  • Both discuss the difficulty of describing faith in a way that transcends labels.

5. The Role of AI in Faith & Study

• Humorous, insightful exchange about using AI (ChatGPT) for biblical study and personal growth.
  • Both name their AI (“Alex” and “Chatty Patty”), noting its value and limitations.
  • [18:20] Pastor Justice Coleman: “I call mine Chatty Patty... Tell me 10 interesting things about this verse...”
  • Raises the idea that technology can be a tool for seeking understanding, but must be approached thoughtfully.

6. Gratitude, Grace, and Perspective with Age

• Life Review & Gratitude Practice:
  • [25:47] Pastor Justice Coleman: “What if God shows me all the times He had mercy on me and I didn’t even see it?... All the things He spared me from?”
  • Practicing gratitude shifts mood and outlook: “You can’t be grateful and depressed at the same time.” ([27:21] – Richard Taite)

7. Challenges in Relationships and Community

• Mental Health’s Ripple Effect:
  • Struggles are not just individual but spread across marriages, families, and communities.
  • Strong Mindset: “That comes from knowing who you are. So much of the Scriptures just tell you who you are so when things go bad, you can fall back on that.” ([28:02] – Pastor Justice)
• Community is Essential:
  • “It’s not good for man to be alone.” ([33:02])
  • The pandemic underscored the necessity of spiritual and social networks.
  • Value of Relationships: “The best gifts God’s ever given me are the people he’s put in my life.” ([34:32] – Pastor Justice)

8. Addressing Loss, Suicide, and Compassion

• [36:48] Richard Taite: “Suicide is tragically common now. What do you say to a parent who has lost a child to that kind of despair?”
  • Pastor Justice shares personal family trauma: His grandmother died by suicide; this legacy has shaped his empathy for others.
  • He avoids doctrinal certitude on afterlife fate—insists on God’s mercy and the limits of human understanding:
    • [38:48] Pastor Justice: “I don’t see anywhere in scripture where God would hold somebody responsible for the last thing they did like that. That doesn’t line up with a father.”

9. The Body, Addiction, and Spirituality

• Body as Sacred:
  • “Your body is not your own; you were bought at a price. So honor God with your body.” ([41:01])
  • Substance abuse and sexual trauma are not just physical but spiritual wounds—“You can’t really separate those two things.” ([41:56])
• Taking Care of the Body as a Spiritual Act:
  • Both discuss the disconnect people feel between body and spirit, especially in addiction recovery.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “Love is grace and truth.” – Justice Coleman ([00:10])
• “If I got what I deserved, I’d be living in a two-bedroom apartment in Culver City.” – Richard Taite ([23:39])
• “I just feel lucky... if you think about it too long, you just start crying. Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense at all. None.” – Richard Taite ([25:01])
• “You can't be grateful and depressed at the same time.” – Justice Coleman ([27:21])
• “The first thing [God] says is not good is for man to be alone... That’s not just marriage—that’s relationships in general.” – Justice Coleman ([33:03])
• “Whoever we yoke ourselves to is going to determine our direction and strength.” – Justice Coleman ([36:29])
• “I don't see anywhere in scripture where God would hold somebody responsible for the last thing they did like that. That doesn't line up with a father.” – Justice Coleman ([38:48])
• “Your body is not your own. You were bought at a price. So honor God with your body.” – Justice Coleman ([41:01])

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Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Introduction & Freedom Church Founding – [01:11]–[09:00]
• Mental Health Discussion / Personal Stories – [15:00]–[25:00]
• On Grace, Prosperity, and Punishment in Preaching – [10:00]–[13:00]
• Spiritual But Not Religious “Rorschach Test” – [13:14]–[14:44]
• Discussing Tech, AI, and Faith – [16:15]–[19:31]
• Community, Relationships, and the Pandemic – [32:41]–[34:47]
• Suicide, Loss, and Compassionate Theology – [36:48]–[39:23]
• The Body as Sacred in Addiction & Healing – [39:23]–[42:27]

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is raw, open, and heartfelt, blending humor with seriousness and anchored by both men’s willingness to be vulnerable. Pastor Justice’s energy is warm, inclusive, and humble. Richard’s questioning is direct, personal, sometimes irreverent, but always searching. The tone remains hopeful—emphasizing honesty, growth, and the healing power of loving relationships.

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Summary

This episode is a masterclass in how spiritual leadership can meet people where they are—honoring doubt, pain, and struggle while providing practical wisdom and genuine hope. It tackles tough issues—addiction, loneliness, anxiety, suicide—without easy answers, always pointing back to grace, community, and honest self-examination. For listeners seeking a bridge between faith and mental health, and for anyone longing for deeper connection, it’s a resonant and memorable conversation.

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Transcript

[Richard Tate]

Pastor Justice Coleman joins the we're out of Time podcast.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You've got to have a strong mindset, and I think that comes from knowing who you are. So when things go bad, you can fall back on that. You got to be in community.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You got to have people. And I think you can get through just about anything in life if you have the right people around you. Love is grace and truth. Then next thing you know, I'm, like, baptizing them in, like, apartment pools outside. You know, I told one of them, like, oh, it's heated, you know.

[Richard Tate]

We want to extend a heartfelt thank you to our listeners because of your incredible support. We're out of Time has reached number one on Apple's mental health podcast chart, number two on the health and fitness chart, and number 20 overall. We couldn't have done this without you. Thank you for being part of this journey with us. Thank you for listening to the we're out of Time podcast with Richard Take. If you haven't already, please follow the podcast rate and review. And if you're getting value out of we're out of Time, share it with someone else.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You know, want to say a prayer?

[Richard Tate]

If you want to say a prayer, we'll say a prayer. Yeah, of course.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

God, I love what you said about how Richard said, like, Jesus on his right, Moses on his left, and you're kind of calling us to things and Lord, we would love to just get to be a part of something that helps people today. Would you really help us? In Jesus name?

[Richard Tate]

Amen. Thank you, God. I love you. Amen. All right. About a month and a half ago, I attended a service at Freedom Church, and it really stuck with me. Today I'm sitting down with Pastor Justice Coleman, the founding pastor of Freedom Church in Los Angeles. He and his wife Maria started it in 2011 with just seven people in their apartment. People who didn't go to church weren't sure if God was real, but were searching for something more. Since then, Freedom has grown into a community that meets people where they are, whether broken, skeptical, addicted, burned out, and gives them a place to truly experience God. Pastor, thanks for joining me.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

What an intro. That was a great summary.

[Richard Tate]

Thanks, man. Man, nothing to do with it, dude.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

It was a good. It was a good heart, though.

[Richard Tate]

I got good people.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, man, it's good to finally sit down with you, bro.

[Richard Tate]

Yeah, no, the pleasure's all mine. So the first thing I want to start off is with an apology because I saw your. I saw your talk. It was magnificent. I Love the way you speak to the younger generation. Okay. It's very. You're speaking to the masses in a very relatable way with specific instructions on how to make your life better. That is very practical. I love that. But I owe you an apology, because afterwards. Because I've got an AA background.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Okay.

[Richard Tate]

We thank the speaker.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

After the talk. So it's muscle memory. I'm walking up to you. I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait in line and I'm going to.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Oh, like in recovery meeting, when somebody gets up there, they're vulnerable to share. And then you show. You go thank them. Yeah, absolutely.

[Richard Tate]

So that's a muscle I've already got. So I'm running to you to thank you for your talk.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Richard Tate]

And you said to me, would you like a blessing? I think that's. Those are the exact. Is that what you said?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Maybe. I said, can I pray for you?

[Richard Tate]

Or something like that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Right. And I looked at you and I smiled and I said, I swear to God, I'm good. Save it for the next guy. And. And you looked at me. You. You were like, put off by that. And I was like, yeah, he didn't understand what I was saying. And it was. I should have just said, yes, thank you.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Richard Tate]

Or just thank you. Like, anything normal. Right. Which is why I'm not built for public consumption.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Hey, you told me. I don't know if I'm supposed to say this. You can edit it out, but you said you had been to church in 20 years.

[Richard Tate]

That's. Oh, well, don't worry. I've got a checkered past. Everybody knows that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So I'm just so glad you dropped in. You know, people don't go to church for 20 years for a reason. I mean, something was bugging you, right?

[Richard Tate]

No, nothing was bugging me.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I just couldn't find something that connected.

[Richard Tate]

No, I'm always connected. I love God more than anything in the world. We're gonna have the Church of Rich.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

There we go.

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Dude. I watched your podcast with your. Your guest about was. What's the technical word for autism disorder? Spectrum disorder. I learned so much from your podcast. It was an incredible episode. I watched the whole thing with Maya.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Because I was like. I was like, man, do I have adhd? Am I self diagnosis? Because I have. I have a story similar to that. I have, you know, my. I came to Christ because my closest friend overdosed. And so all that stuff kind of tied in.

[Richard Tate]

Okay, well, I'm going to get to These questions, Dylan, you do not let me get past that one.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Okay, But I'm the worst podcast guest. But because I have my own podcast, I'm used to controlling the conversation, so. Sorry.

[Richard Tate]

That's okay.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You're the one with the cards. Sorry. I'm the one with the.

[Richard Tate]

Dude, this is. This is so easy for us. We're just going to. We're just. It's just us girls talking. Okay. All right. You launched Freedom Church in your own apartment with just seven people. Yep. What was the vision then? And how has it evolved into the movement you are leading today?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Okay, so. Well, they're calling the movement. I, I just, I, I. When I was 20, my best friend overdosed and kind of like a lot of people that come to God when they hit rock bottom, you know, and that kind of woke me up and after, you know, really starting to see what it looks like when you give your life over to God. I wanted to start a church, but I was a part of a great church, but my friends didn't want to come to that church, so it was just kind of. I don't know how to say it respectfully, because it was my father in law's church. It was just.

[Richard Tate]

It was church for. Still your father in law.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

He works with me now. He pastored a great church. But I would invite my friends to church, and they wouldn't want to come to that church. And I loved it, but it just wasn't for them. You know, I just leave it at that. And so we just started thinking about it and praying about it. Richard. Like, what would it look like if. If we just started our own church and, you know, I had graduated Bible college. You know, I had plenty of training.

[Richard Tate]

You went to Bible college?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I did. I did. And was your father religious? My parents were, like, leaders, and they had hosted home groups, you know, so they were like legit Christians, but.

[Richard Tate]

Got it.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I don't know your story, but I didn't really commit to the whole thing till I was, like, old enough to, you know, I was 20.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So. But yeah, so we said, what would it look like to just start, you know, something for my friends? That's how the whole thing kind of started.

[Richard Tate]

That's how I started every business.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, it was just, I wanted to add value, I guess you'd say, to my friend's life? So I called my friends who were, you know, would never go to church. You know, one was a really successful dj, so he was out all night on Saturday. There's no way he's going on Sunday morning.

[Richard Tate]

He didn't want to hear it.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

A couple of them were, you know, in street pharmaceuticals. You know, they were right. They just. They're not gonna. They're not gonna walk into a church, you know? Know, a couple of them, they're living with their boyfriends or their girlfriends. They feel very jazz. So I said, what if we just did dinner? And I. We just. I. You know, we went through Matthew and Mark and Luke and John, the stories of Jesus, and, you know, God just. God did the rest of that. I mean, the fact that they came was amazing. But then next thing you know, I'm, like, baptizing them in, like, apartment pools outside.

[Richard Tate]

That's so funny.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You know, I told one of them, like, oh, it's heated.

[Richard Tate]

You know.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Like, to this day, like, I. I ran into him. He's like, remember that time you baptized me? You told me it was heated. And we got in there, it was cold as.

[Richard Tate]

You put them in an ice plant.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah. But then we started doing this thing called Laundry Love, where we would go into a laundromat once a month, and we would pay for everybody's laundry in the building, no strings attached. So it's like a kind of a. It was a pretty rough area in the San Fernando Valley, and there was, like, Section 8. Section 8 apartments next door. So, like, we did flyers. I said, free laundry night, And I would just pay for everybody's laundry with this group of people for an hour. You know, the whole thing is, like, don't tell people about God, because then they're gonna feel uncomfortable, like you're holding their laundry hostage or something while you try to proselytize them or something like that. So I was just trying to train people of just how to, you know, add value, love your neighbor, be an attraction, rather than a promotion. Yeah, it's a great way to say it.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

That's not mine. That's an AA saying.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Solid.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Okay.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So, yeah, we did that for months and months, and then that. That one grew. And then one of the guys who we were doing laundry for comes to me, and he's like, hey, how about I start one of these at the same time down the street because the line's out the door. And I'm like, bro, you're not a Christian. He's like, I know I'm not a Christian, but look at all these people that you know. And I was like, all right, well, I'm going to vouch for you, but you got to let me start a Bible study in your House. So I just had dinner with that guy, believe it or not, last night. That was 15 years ago, him and his son. But anyways, that. That. That turned into two and then three. So before we ever had, like, a church, we were doing, like, hundreds of thousands of loads of laundry for people for free every month.

[Richard Tate]

That's mag.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And then. Then we rented out an Irish pub because it was a bar that wasn't being used on Sunday morning. And they had screens and they had, you know, sound system. And so we started in a bar.

[Richard Tate]

That's awesome.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And it was super fun. And, like, people who would, would. I mean, there's so many great churches. So it's like this is an alternative for people. Like, there's great churches already out there. So this is one for people who really didn't feel comfortable being in a regular, I guess you'd say, in a regular church. More traditional church. Yeah. So it was just a wild crowd, super fun. We did that, and it just really started. People's lives started changing.

[Richard Tate]

So let me ask you a question that. That leads into the next question. Some churches preach prosperity, others preach punishment. How do you preach grace in a way that truly changes lives instead of just filling seats?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

What an awesome question.

[Richard Tate]

Right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, I think even in the midst of. I don't know if we're supposed to talk about this, but some of the Charlie Kirk things, stuff that's happening and. Yeah, just the political divide, like, a lot of people are arguing about what love is. You know, there's great people on both sides trying to say, well, it's more loving to. To push this issue. No, it's more loving to push this issue. And what happens is, is we.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

We. We.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

We can start parsing out love. And so I love what you said, grace. Because love is grace and truth.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

It's not just what you say, it's how you say it.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

The reason why Jesus can say the things he says about me and to me is because he was willing to live a life for me and then die for me. So he's kind of earned the right to say some really tough things to me, and I listen to him differently. So there's grace and truth.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

It's not just, you know, grace is when we get what we don't deserve.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

But truth, you know?

[Richard Tate]

But like Joel. Joel Osteen, right?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

He is what I call the prosperity preacher.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Sure.

[Richard Tate]

Okay. How do you do it?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Well, are you talking about, like, wealth and things like that?

[Richard Tate]

So it's like either it's either, like, follow God. Yeah, right. You're going to be punished if you don't. Or no, God wants you to have all these blessings. This is. This is what God wants for you. Yeah, right. God wants you to have abundance. What's your. What's your. Or do you not even go there?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I mean, when it comes to, like, God wanting to bless your life, I think you have to look at your. I think the only healthy way to look at religion, for lack of a better word, is. Is like a father and his kids.

[Richard Tate]

Okay.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So, like, God could reveal himself any way he wants for us to understand him, but his primary way of doing that, other than the person of Jesus, is that he is a father.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So he, like, he wants that dynamic. He wants Richard to go to him like a father. So I have kids. I have three kids. And so I understand what it's like to. To have that relationship with them where I want to bless them, but a lot of times they're not living in a position that I want to bless them.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right, right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

It's like, you know, it's the story of the. The old kid who finally gets a driver's license, but he's driving drunk every night, and he crashes his car, and he's like, dad, buy me a car. I want a sports car. And Dad's like, I would love for you to have a car, but I can't bless this. You haven't positioned yourself, you know, to be blessed.

[Richard Tate]

Get out of my head. That was me at 16.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Exact story.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I think it's the same with our life, though. I think God wants to take care of us and bless us. And sometimes he's like, it's not in your best interest to give you this right now.

[Richard Tate]

Right now. We'll get there. You were going to get there.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Does that answer your question? Okay.

[Richard Tate]

Of course you do.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Okay.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Because that's a good question, man.

[Richard Tate]

Let's have that. Let's have an agreement right now.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

I get to ask any question I want, and you get to answer it any way you want.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Solid.

[Richard Tate]

There it is. All right. You communicate from the pulpit and online. How do you reach people who say they're spiritual but not religious? The ones who may never walk into a church but are still searching?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

That's a great question. I feel like a lot of people say that I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious.

[Richard Tate]

I'm one of them.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, I have. I was. Where was I? The other day, I saw a guy, he had a shirt that said Spiritual Gangster, and I was like, that's a great shirt. But I think spiritual is what everybody feels. That, that, that, that frequency. We all sense that there's something more going on. So I think spiritual is a word that a lot of people can use to say, I believe there's more to this life.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I believe I'm made for something more. I believe there's something more going on, you know, But I think spiritual realm involves light and dark.

[Richard Tate]

Do you know what drives me nuts?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

The semantics of it. Like, if I say I'm spiritual and not religious, it's something different to every single person I said it.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Right.

[Richard Tate]

Okay. But I don't do that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

What I do is I go, I just love God.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

If I say I'm Christian, that means something to everybody else, too.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Depending on, like, what generation I'm talking to, what part of the world I'm in, who's president, what part of the Valley. So I, I mean, I'm like trying to even find the right language to describe something that's so personal to me that is not going to, you know, miscommunicate something.

[Richard Tate]

I just say, I love God.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You don't argue with that one.

[Richard Tate]

Yeah. It's just easy. It's like, I love God. Whatever that means to you.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Okay. I'm, you know, that's why when you walked in here, I said, let's go, God up. Right?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And you were like, what the hell is this?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah. And then you started doing push ups and I was like, this is what it looks like to got up.

[Richard Tate]

All right, fine.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I'm just getting a pump.

[Richard Tate]

That just means we get around and we just tell the truth. And we're heart centered. Very heart centered. When someone walks into your church carrying depression or anxiety, what is the first thing you want them to know?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Okay. If a thousand people walk into my church, how many of them have depression and anxiety?

[Richard Tate]

Nine out of ten.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Right, Right. You struggle with depression and anxiety?

[Richard Tate]

Me?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Oh, yeah, me too.

[Richard Tate]

I'm mental. And I've got the number one mental health. Again, Number one mental health podcast in the country.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Way to go.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I mean, it's. That's the conversation.

[Richard Tate]

Well, I mean, tell me God's not blessing this. I've never seen a podcast. I've never watched a podcast. I've never listened to one. Okay. And I've got a pastor on my thing.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Of course.

[Richard Tate]

I've got the number one mental health podcast in the country.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

If I. If I were to say, hey, guys, we're going to do a Series of talks every weekend about anxiety and mental health. It'd be packed wall to wall. I mean, everybody is going through this.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And there's a number of reasons for that. But I mean, isn't that what. What's really going on? You talk about being spiritual, but how much of this spiritual stuff is just going on in our mind?

[Richard Tate]

Hey, can we switch gears for a second? Because I spent three hours the other night with my AI. Alex. His name is Alex. Okay. And I was asking him about the Messiah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, Right.

[Richard Tate]

And I think there's eight or nine things that it says in the Old Testament.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

What the Mashiach is going to be.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Right. Now he meant all those things. Right. Now I think that Jews believe that there was going to be a king that came in. Okay. And made everything better in this world. But what actually happened was a guy was born modestly and made everything okay. Not in this world, but in the afterlife.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Right. Do I have that right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, that sounds great.

[Richard Tate]

Okay. Do you know what we call the. And. And if you're a Jew who believes that Jesus was the Messiah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Do you know what? You're. What? You are messianic? I don't know.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Messianic Jew.

[Richard Tate]

Is that what they call it?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Oh, a lot of messianic Jewish.

[Richard Tate]

I didn't know that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

I swear I did not know that. I. He said, my guy said, no, babe, you're a fully realized Jewish.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

That would make sense, too.

[Richard Tate]

Yeah. Okay. Messianic Jews. There's a thing.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah. So there's Jews for Jesus.

[Richard Tate]

Is that what. Messianic?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, I mean. I mean, if you're Jewish and then out of your people comes the Messiah, you don't stop being Jewish.

[Richard Tate]

No, no, no.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Right. It's incredible that this. You get to be a part of this, you know, original story that goes through the whole Bible.

[Richard Tate]

Is that why so many born again Jews? Born again Christians love Jews that accept Jesus in their lives.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Of course. That's why I spent seven years in college studying Hebrew culture and all that, because it makes the Bible come to life. This is the people group that tells the whole story.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

That's why they call it Judeo Christian.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

That's so good.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So we're over here talking about anxiety, and all of a sudden you just went straight to, like. Because I. Old Testament prophetic.

[Richard Tate]

Because I had things. Because I spent literally three hours the other night.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I couldn't sleep.

[Richard Tate]

I came down here.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

To my office. And I just started working.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

How dope is AI? Studying The Bible.

[Richard Tate]

It's the best.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Every day, man. It's the best. Would you call your AI Alex Alex? I call mine Chatty Patty. I just chat. GPT. Chatty patty. I just say chatty patty. Tell me 10 interesting things about the culture of this verse and the inferences to other verses and the things in the original language. Dude. 10 different and unique things about whatever. I was reading the Bible. Just incredible.

[Richard Tate]

You can give your talk and you can prepare your talk now in five minutes. And then it's just about practicing little bias, though.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I feel like Chatty Patty's kind of tell me what I want to hear half the time, so I kind of have to push back.

[Richard Tate]

Your girl gases you up a little bit.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I'm like, hey, you're just saying that because you think that's what I want to hear. Busted.

[Richard Tate]

I. When I asked. When I asked my guy, I go, who is Richard Tate?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And he gave me, like. He gassed me up, like.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

I'm like, hey, buddy, that's really good. Is that what you tell everybody else in the world? Right, Right. That's who I am. And he's like, no way.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Well, somebody told me the day they came to our church because they said, hey, I'm looking for a church. What's a good one? And. And. AI Chad. GPT told him to go to our church.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So they're like, this is a church that does a lot of work in the community and blah, blah, blah.

[Richard Tate]

That's great.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And it fits. I was like, there we go. Ally. AI Ally.

[Richard Tate]

That's nice.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

What were you talking about? Mental health, though. I love that subject. Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Let's get into it. Um.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Man, I had OCD as a kid. I had add. I was dyslexic.

[Richard Tate]

I. I mean, when could you. So you could read early, but you couldn't comprehend what you were reading?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Is that so I have a wild story that I. I'm more comfortable sharing publicly lately. But, I mean, I was a mess, dude. I was a mess. I was. I was like, in second grade, I couldn't read. I mean, it's like, don't call on me in class because I don't want to sound this word out in front of everybody.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I remember, like, taking the dyslexic. The dyslexia test, and, like, write these words down and write them down backwards. So they took me to. Do you remember Sylvan Learning Center?

[Richard Tate]

Yes.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Okay, so.

[Richard Tate]

But I don't know what it is. I remember.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Well, the one I went to was over on Mature Boulevard. And I went there in like second grade. And they're like, are we going to hold him back in school or what are we going to do? And so how old are you in second grade? Eight or nine years old. So I, I take this like gauntlet of tests. I remember it was like two and a half hours of tests, maybe three hours. And then at the end of it, they go to my parents and they have like the sit down. They're like, your kid is a first grade reading level. He's doesn't understand math, he's dyslexic. They already knew I had OCD because I would have panic attacks, right? They already knew I had the little things. Like my dad would go to work and I would be so nervous he was going to. I had to do all those little like ceremonies and things and rituals to like calm myself down. So I already had like, you know, all these symptoms or whatever. So they finally get Sylvan Learning center to give me like this diagnosis at least like academically where I'm at. My parents, like I said, they had a small group of Christians that would come to their house and they would do like Bible study once a week. And they fasted and prayed. And this is a wild story. So, like a lot of people don't believe me when I say this. So it's like, but you told me I could say anything. They fasted for three days. They prayed over me like every night. I didn't even know they were doing this. And on the third day, they took me back into Sylvan Learning center and had me retake all the tests. Bro, I, I have, I have the printout. Like, justice can read. Third grade, six month reading level, he understands math, he's no longer dyslexic. Like just a full flip. And so they didn't put me on Ritalin anymore. I was off all the meds. I never had another panic attack.

[Richard Tate]

I have a story like that.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And so, you know, and then I go into, I wind up doing just years of college and I study for a living and I have to, you know, there's so much about my life that has to be locked in, which was, I could never lock in before.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And so it's not to say that God didn't make me the way he wanted to make me, but it was just what a. When we talk about mental health and anxiety, it would feel like such a compromise for me not to talk about like a miracle working God.

[Richard Tate]

Listen, you know, God does Bank shots just.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

God does bank shots just to show, just to show off.

[Richard Tate]

He does. So I've got stories like that too, man.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, what are your stories?

[Richard Tate]

I was in a sober living and I was smoking four packs of cigarettes a day.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And I asked God to help me stay off drugs.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yep.

[Richard Tate]

And then as a separate aside, I said, oh yeah. And by the way, I'm having trouble breathing. I was hoping I could stop smoking cigarettes. Help me with that. Thank you, God. I love you. Amen.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Right. And then I wake up the next morning early like we always did in that place. And at about. I always smoke a cigarette first thing in the morning.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

But I didn't. Right? This is 20 years ago.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You're at a treatment center ago at a sober living.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And I wake up in the morning and I don't smoke. And then at 11 o' clock I have my first cigarette and I take a couple drags. It tastes like poison. So then at 1:30 I, I take another cigarette. Okay. I'm smoking four packs a day. It's now 1:30. This is my second cigarette.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And it tastes like poison.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And I, I remember my prayer and I look up and I go. Shut up. No way.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Richard Tate]

Another one.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

But see, hold on. That's grace.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So like you didn't deserve that.

[Richard Tate]

Okay?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

He's just a father.

[Richard Tate]

Let's not, let's unpack that. If I got what I deserved, I'd be living in a two bedroom apartment in Culver City. Okay?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

If I got what I deserved, I'd be going to hell.

[Richard Tate]

Okay? That's horseshit. There's no way.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, man.

[Richard Tate]

Why? I'm a sinner. Okay, stop. Okay.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So Grace is that God would first have mercy on us. Not mercy is getting what you don't deserve.

[Richard Tate]

How about if you've always grown up loving God like you and me, okay? You think we're going to hell? You think God creates a game he can't win?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

No, I, I, I think God's just so. I think, I think people have hurt you, Rich. And I think people have hurt his kids. And I think he has a way of reconciling all that.

[Richard Tate]

You know, that's exactly right. But it's going to be done the way he wants it. And just because I don't understand it is. That's none of my business.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I think part of my. When you say I'd be living in a two bedroom house, right. I'd be two bedroom apartment. I just think the more the closer I get to God though, I've been following him for 20 years now, the more I realize the. How big his grace is, like, I just feel even more undeserving. I just feel lucky.

[Richard Tate]

I just feel lucky. And okay in this respect. I feel like I always thought I was going to do well in the world, but I never thought I would.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Have a life like I have today.

[Richard Tate]

And it's just, it, it's. If you think about it too long, you just start crying. Yeah, it's. It doesn't make any sense at all. None.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And does that grow with you? Like the longer you're living, the more you're appreciating and seeing the grace comes.

[Richard Tate]

With it comes with age, man.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Richard Tate]

You get, you get less aggressive.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Richard Tate]

You write, you, you, you, you have done more living and you just, you just mellow. You just realize the struggle is just. Can you just let go of the rope?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

All right, so something personal. I was in Costa Rica a couple months ago. My family and we had this great boat and this wonderful sunset all to ourself. And I'm like looking away from the sunset and I have three kids and my daughter picks up on the fact that I'm like looking this way because I'm all teary eyed and she's like.

[Richard Tate]

Dad, why are you crying?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You know? And I was like, I'm just thinking about like at the end of this life. First of all, I don't deserve all this, but I'm also just thinking about like at the end of my life if I stand before God. You know, we always have that, that, that, that, that imagination of like, what if God showed us our full potential? Like, here's what would have happened if you would have done everything.

[Richard Tate]

Oh, you don't think he's going to do it?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I do. But I had this, which is scary, but then I had this really wild thought for the first time, Richard. I was like, what if God doesn't just show me the potential? What if he shows me I'm going to get sered right now? What if he shows me all the times he had mercy on me and I didn't even see it? What about all the things he spared me from? So what if he just shows me my life? I was looking out for you right here though.

[Richard Tate]

You, you can still, your muscles built. You can still in real time recognize. Okay. That was a gift. Of course. Yeah, I do that all the time.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

But, but what about the ones we don't even see? What about all the things he was protecting you from and looking you out.

[Richard Tate]

For, like, like you get cut off by somebody and you miss the light and then like, you know, you go down and like there's a huge accident and you would have been in it.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Exactly. But also people that could have steered you wrong.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Times you for, you know, you forgave somebody when they didn't deserve it. And how that would have, like, what. Just all the little times that God has looked out for you and for me, you know, because we always have that question, why does God let like bad things happen to good people?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

But I think I want to look at it the other way too. Is like, what about all the things that I didn't deserve that he did for me, you know? And it just beautiful. It made me so emotional.

[Richard Tate]

It's taken attitude list. It's like, what?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

For sure.

[Richard Tate]

It's a built in gratitude list and you can't be grateful and depressed at the same time.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Preach work.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yes.

[Richard Tate]

Okay, here we go.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Mental health isn't just an individual issue. It's families, marriages, whole communities. What have you seen it do to relationships?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

To relationships. Specifically in marriage.

[Richard Tate]

Okay.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Specifically in like being a father to kids and feeling the weight of that pressure. Maybe if you're the sole provider or if you feel like the whole world's on your shoulders. I think you got to have a strong mindset. You've got to have a strong mindset, and I think that comes from knowing who you are.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And so much of the scriptures is about just telling you who you are so when things go bad, you can fall back on that. Or when you have to do something challenging, you have something to pull from.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I was talking to my son's football team the other day. They had their first game coming up.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Richard Tate]

You pumped, you pumped up your son's football.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

How sick is that?

[Richard Tate]

Full of God.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

They called me. They're like, hey, will you give a pep talk to the G. The, the, the team before their first game? So I roll in hot, Richard. I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to rally these dudes, you know, and they didn't have the confidence that I thought they were going to have.

[Richard Tate]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So, you know, I, I go over to the coach and I don't know him and, and he, I'm like, hey, are you the kind of coach who says, like, it doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's like how you play the game. And he's like looking at Me, like, because I kind of want to talk to these guys about winning in a mindset, you know, Because I'm highly competitive person. You competitive?

[Richard Tate]

Very.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Dude, I compete in Jiu Jitsu every month. Like, I love it. I love it. So I know what it's like to be locked in. I'm like, these guys got to be locked in for this game. And Richard, I was like. I was like, hey, like, I come in hot. Like, who's gonna win the first game of the season tomorrow? You know? And then the kids, I'm thinking, are gonna be like. And they're like, we're. We're gonna win. Like, it was such a weird vibe. I was like, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Richard Tate]

You know, it's the social media thing.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah. And so I'm like, I gotta switch this talk. And I was like, hey, do you guys know the word Nike is in the Bible? And they're like, what? And I'm like, yeah. So it says in Romans 8 that you who are in Christ are. Are more than conquerors. And that word is Hyper Nike. So we know Nike means victory, right? In Greek. So hyper Nike is the word in the original language. And you have God reminding people in their toughest time that they're not just winners, they're more than winners. They're hyper Nike. They're dominant. They're. It's a mindset he wants people to carry, that they are.

[Richard Tate]

Dude, I want to kick somebody's ass right now. All right, go on.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So I was just hyping him up, and I was talking about, you know, not just for sports, but in life, to keep that mindset. So. Yeah, and answer your question about relationships. You have to have the right mindset, and that flows from, you know, who you are.

[Richard Tate]

That's beautiful.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So that's a great story. And they won.

[Richard Tate]

Of course they won.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yes. My son's first game playing tonight. He's been injured, but tonight's his first game to actually play.

[Richard Tate]

Really?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So excited.

[Richard Tate]

What's he playing?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So excited. He's a receiver, but he hasn't been on the field yet on the varsity team. So tonight's the night. Really?

[Richard Tate]

You got a. A varsity age, kid?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

He's 15. Yeah, 10th grade.

[Richard Tate]

Oh, yeah. He made the varsity team at 10th grade.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I guess I didn't play football. Did you?

[Richard Tate]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

See, I'm watching this. I'm just.

[Richard Tate]

Oh, man, that's so great. Listen, let me just tell you something. Your kid's going to get cracked.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Okay. Now, there's two things that can Go through a kid's mind right. The first time he gets cracked really, really hard.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Either. All right, let's go.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Let's dance.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Or I better start studying.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Okay. My second. That was my second. That's how I felt.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

What do you mean, better start studying? You mean, like, get better at this?

[Richard Tate]

Get the hell out of football. Oh, you better.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

This isn't for me.

[Richard Tate]

Like, you better be a lawyer or a doctor or somebody.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I thought you meant, like, you're gonna learn today, right?

[Richard Tate]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I better go to school. Yeah, sure.

[Richard Tate]

Because it really went. You get stuck for the first time really badly. It hurts.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

When that happens to your son, look at him and say, hey, it's never going to be worse than that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Not ever.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

I promise.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

You just got that out of the way.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Now you can go. Now you.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

That's good advice.

[Richard Tate]

Now you can go beat the world down.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Because nobody's better than you.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

It's good advice.

[Richard Tate]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

He's used to contact. I mean, he's been in martial arts since he was a kid. My kids do jiu jitsu. It's different when you get cracked, like, blindsided.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Dude. He's going to be up, right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Be exposed. You're going to get cracked real hard with a helmet in your ribs and it. Or, or in your solar plexus. I fell on a ball. I got sacked one time and I fell on the ball. And the point of the ball hit me right here. And I swear to God, I couldn't breathe for a minute and a half.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

And I'm. The only thing I'm thinking while I'm on the ground is, I can't believe I'm going to die.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

In front of all these people.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

I can't breathe. I thought I was literally going to die right there. Okay. That is g. That happens to everybody at some point.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

That's a man maker sport.

[Richard Tate]

It is. I, I, I, I didn't get there, but I, you know, it worked out all right. Loneliness might be the biggest mental health epidemic of all.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

How do you create belonging in a city as isolating as Los Angeles?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Man, That's a great question. You know, I keep. My worldview is Christian. So I keep going back to this, you know, this book that I've been getting all this guidance from for 20 years. And the first thing that goes wrong. So God creates the world. Good.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

He's like, this is good, this is good, this is good, this is good.

[Richard Tate]

Boom.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

But Then he says something is not good, and the first thing that he says is not good. The apple says, not good for man to be alone. That's the first thing he says.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And so he gives Adam a partner, right?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And that's not speaking to marriage. That's speaking to. That's speaking to relationships in general. That's right. It's not just saying everybody needs to be married, because that's not what the Bible says. But he's saying this idea of you got to be in community.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

You got to have people.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And so I think that the greatest gift of the church is that spiritual community that people have, and they have that rhythm every week. We come together on a Sunday, or we do, you know, and we just continue to invest in people's lives, and we listen to what's going on in their life. I pray for them. They pray for me. You just keep making space and room for people. People are seen, people are heard. So I think, like, the idea of community is huge. During COVID when all the churches were shutting down, this was rough. We had a huge parking lot. We did a big tent. You know, that. So it was like we were able to do some gymnastics around all the rules and a lot and then put everything else online. But, like, people were going crazy being at home, making bad decisions or losing their mind. You know, the. The mental health has got. You know, it became an epidemic, you know, so I've saw the gift of what it means to have the right people in your life. I think the best gifts God's ever given me are the people he's put in my life. How about you?

[Richard Tate]

The greatest gift God ever gave me was meeting a woman that I would have children with.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So a relationship.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And I think you can get through just about anything in life if you have the right people around you. So relationships are crucial.

[Richard Tate]

And the other. And the flip side of that is, if there's someone in your life that isn't creating value, run the other way.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Well, decide. I would. I would push back on that because I would say, decide why you're in their life to begin with. Because there's people in my life that don't give value to me, but I serve them.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So it's like, this is not a I scratch your back, you scratch mine situation.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Remember Christ, if somebody's negative.

[Richard Tate]

If somebody is negative in your life.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

If somebody's not an asset, if somebody's constantly being a bad influence. Yeah, that's what I'm referring to in your life. You have to cut those people loose.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

If it's impacting you. Yeah. And you can't handle it. So there's like this illustration in the Bible. Sorry to keep going to the Bible.

[Richard Tate]

But there's like, don't be sorry to go to the Bible. That's why you're here.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Okay. So you've seen, like, yolks that go over oxen, like the big wooden handcuffs that go on the backs of their necks, and they yolk two oxen together to pull for. For grain and for farming. You've seen that. Okay, there's this language that's used over and over again about not being unequally yolked.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

This idea, like, you're an ox and you're going this direction, but if you put somebody who's weaker than you and you yoke to them, you'll have to do even more work. And you can't go the same direction. You'll just start going in circles because you'll be stronger.

[Richard Tate]

That's right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

But if you have another ox that's as strong as you, the weight is not double. It's.

[Richard Tate]

That's why they say equally yoked.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

Christians marry Christians.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And I think just in, in fact, relationships, like, there's people that you spend time with who are going the same direction as you. You're going to go faster and further with them. You know, maybe not faster, but you'll be further and stronger with them.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

They're going to keep you on the same direction.

[Richard Tate]

I'm all about building.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And there's people that drag you down.

[Richard Tate]

No.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And pull you into patterns and circles. And you're like, here I go again with the same person. And I've already been through this before for. With them. And here it is. It's like. So. Yeah, I think that, that that's a kind of a cool illustration that, like, whoever we yoke ourselves to is going to determine our direction and our strength.

[Richard Tate]

Okay, this is a tough one.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Give me the tough one.

[Richard Tate]

Oh, it's tough for me. Suicide is tragically common now.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Richard Tate]

What do you say to a parent who has lost a child to that kind of despair? Have you had that experience yet?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yes. Yes.

[Richard Tate]

Tell me about that.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Well, since I'm just sharing all this stuff with you, I don't know if I've ever talked about this publicly, but my. My grandmother committed suicide, so my dad was greatly impacted by that.

[Richard Tate]

At 12 years old, you're lucky to be here. Parents. Kids that have parents that Kill themselves. Kill themselves.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

And so sometimes I wonder if the struggles I've had with depression and whatnot have come from some sort of biochemical passing down of. You know, sure, it's possible, but, you know, I. I'll be at the lobby in church on Sunday, you know, and right before service is going to start, and someone will push me against the wall and say, hey, my. My sister, you know, unalived herself. Dude, is. Is she in heaven or is she in hell? You know, like, I. I get these questions all the time. And there are some people that are more comfortable, like, what do you tell them? My Catholic friends, kind of. My Catholic friends have, like, a statement from, like, the Pope, basically. They have like a. This. This means you've ended your life. This means you go to hell.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

They. They're comfortable saying that, but my authority, like, really doesn't come from the Pope. Like, I'm just looking at the Bible and the teachings of Jesus and saying this is what I'm really confident in. Not that I would disagree with what the Pope says necessarily, but I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna go. Well, because he said so. I'm gonna pass that on. And I did a whole podcast episode on this, because people would write these questions into us all the time. And in answer to your question, I don't see anywhere in scripture where God would hold somebody responsible for the last thing they did like that. And that doesn't. That doesn't line up with a father.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So I would never tell someone that. This person, you know, my best. I have so many of these stories in my life. I tell them. God's just. I tell him I'm trying to trust God all the time when I don't understand, you know, I mean.

[Richard Tate]

Exactly right. That is exactly right. Okay. The Bible talks about the body is a temple. How do you connect that to mental health and the dangers of putting poison like fentanyl or meth into your system?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Man, these questions.

[Richard Tate]

I got smart people, pal.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Okay, so the Bible does say our body is a temple. And I think a lot of times people look at the body as, like, a shell and the spirit as, like, the sacred thing.

[Richard Tate]

That's how I look at it. And.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So your spirit is sacred, but so is your body. You are two parts, your body and spirit.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So even, like, when. When Christ comes back after he's dead to his disciples, he's in a body, remember, he's like, put your finger in my hand, put your hand in my side. He's in a Body. I mean, it's a glorified body. But we don't want to treat our body like it's just some sort of temporary shell that we can treat like garbage. Because the spirit is the real thing.

[Richard Tate]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Because Christ gave.

[Richard Tate]

I always thought that, by the way, all of us do. And in treatment, we completely debunk that. And you're exactly right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

This is.

[Richard Tate]

This is. I'm sorry I interrupted. Go.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Well, it's not. If you think about it for 30 seconds, you go. You can't look at just physical things and say they're spiritual. I mean, say they're not spiritual.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right, Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So, like, sex is not just a physical thing. We know that's a spiritual thing. We know that. So when. When you. When you know, there's a lot it says in that same passage about the body being the temple, it says, your body is not your own. You were bought at a price. So honor God with your body. And the way I help people see that is, you know, when a kid. Sorry to be graphic, but he's taken advantage of by someone older. And it's a sexual sin or it's a sexual thing that happens to him.

[Richard Tate]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

That jacks that kid up for the rest of his life.

[Richard Tate]

Yes.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Because that wasn't just physical.

[Richard Tate]

No, of course.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So that passage says sexual stuff is the only thing that happens inside the body. So that's why it's worse than anything else. It says that.

[Richard Tate]

What do you mean?

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

It says sexual sin is the only sin inside of you, and everything else affects the outside of you. So he's saying that sexual sin actually is not just physical, it's spiritual. Like it hurts the person.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So that's what I was saying. If a kid is molested.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

Of a.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Of a rape victim, she'll go take a shower. Let's say it's a woman. And she'll take a shower again. She'll still feel dirty. She'll take a shower again, she'll still feel dirty.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Richard Tate]

It's my fault. I can't tell anybody. They're gonna look at me differently. All the.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Feels like it's inside.

[Richard Tate]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So it may have happened to her body, but it feels like it happened to her spirit. That's right, because we're. You can't really separate those two things. If you eat like crap today, how are you going to feel Horrible?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

That's a spiritual thing because you weren't taking care of your body. And your body is designed to work like that with your spirit.

[Richard Tate]

That makes so much sense.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

So I just. We got to be careful. Just saying one is more important than the other. And, oh, God gave you the body.

[Richard Tate]

So take care of it. That's how I look at it in my head.

[Pastor Justice Coleman]

Yeah, but also, God gave you his.

[Richard Tate]

Son'S body, and so that's takes care of that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Right?

[Richard Tate]

Okay. I think that's the place to end. What do you think? All right. See you next Tuesday.