Redefining the Veteran Narrative: Kevin Schmiegel's Mission Beyond the Uniform

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Redefining the Veteran Narrative: Kevin Schmiegel's Mission Beyond the Uniform"

Podcast: We're Out of Time
Host: Richard Taite
Guest: Kevin Schmiegel, Founder of Zero Mills
Date: November 11, 2025
Theme: Challenging stereotypes of veterans; creating a thriving reality for veterans post-service; bridging service, mental health, and community solutions.

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a deep dive into the experience of veterans transitioning to civilian life, shining a spotlight on the damaging "broken veteran" narrative and offering a new framework for supporting their thriving, not just surviving. Richard Taite welcomes Kevin Schmiegel—former Marine and founder of Zero Mills—who shares personal stories, outlines systemic challenges, and proposes integrated approaches that connect purpose, community, and employment for veterans, all while pushing back against stigma and tokenism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kevin Schmiegel’s Background and Motivation

• Early Life and Military Service
  • Kevin describes coming from a family rooted in service; his father was a Marine, and his mother also modeled dedication to others ([01:10]).
  • Served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1989–2009, including deployments to over 50 countries.
  • Sacrificed time with his family, emphasizing that “the family serves too” and highlighting the unseen burdens of military spouses and children ([02:04], [02:52]).
• Transition to Civilian Life
  • Left the military for the sake of his children’s stability, particularly as his eldest started high school ([02:52]).
  • Still compelled to serve: took a high-level job at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, then founded Hiring Our Heroes in response to the employment crisis facing veterans ([03:40], [04:47]).

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Challenging the "Broken Veteran" Narrative

• Employment and the Real Story

  • In 2011, veteran unemployment was 10%—30% for those under 24—but now stands at record lows ([05:08]).
  • A disconnect persists: society and many nonprofits portray veterans as damaged, even when statistics contradict that narrative ([05:08], [06:20]).
  • Notably, veteran unemployment has been LOWER than civilian unemployment for the past decade ([06:20]).

• Why Does the Narrative Persist?

  • Money and Sympathy:
    • “Sympathy and pity sells.” – Kevin ([06:23]).
  • Impact on Service Propensity:
    • Only 9% of young Americans feel compelled to serve; 62% believe most veterans suffer psychological disorders—with the truth being closer to 5–10% that need extra support ([07:04], [07:32]).

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The Five Pillars of Veteran Thriving

Kevin outlines the essential elements that allow veterans to move beyond survival:

1. Meaningful Employment
2. Sense of Purpose through Service
3. Connected Community (Tribe)
4. Health and Wellbeing
5. Continuous Self-Improvement (“Filling the kit bag”)
   • “We must seek out these five things in our lives because we had them in the military… Employment is not the only thing we have in our lives. We need those other four things too.” – Kevin ([08:04], [09:55])

• The Danger of Missing Pillars
  • Kevin confides his personal mental health spiral after leaving Hiring Our Heroes, caused by the sudden lack of purpose, tribe, and wellbeing ([11:05]).

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Veteran Success Stories & Lessons Learned

• Scaling Hiring Our Heroes

  • Helped a million veterans and spouses find meaningful employment through the program ([10:46]).

• The Power of Purpose in Recovery

  • Personal depression and self-medication period; returned to purpose through service and mentoring ([11:05], [12:16]).
  • “You're no good to anyone if you don't take care of yourself to make the change that you want to make.” – Kevin ([12:16])

• The Importance of Leadership and Self-Belief

  • The greatest barrier for transitioning veterans is a loss of self-belief, not capability ([13:00]).
  • Military service creates outstanding leaders and problem-solvers—skills often overlooked in the civilian sector but invaluable ([18:22]).
  • “I think it’s leadership. 100% leadership… and work ethic.” – Kevin ([18:22])

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Employer and Community Responsibility

• How Employers Can Do Better

  • Not just hiring: provide opportunities for ongoing service, health, education, mentorship ([14:06], [15:46]).
  • Enable affinity groups and allow veterans to connect, serve, mentor, and be mentored. Examples include Team Red, White & Blue, Team Rubicon ([17:08], [17:46]).
  • Demonstrate commitment publicly to attract and retain top veteran talent ([18:00]).

• Collaborative Solutions

  • Too many nonprofits work in isolation and compete for resources ([32:39]).
  • Kevin’s new mission: build military “thriving regions” where nonprofits, employers, and communities collaborate for maximum impact ([31:27]).

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Addressing Mental Health, Addiction, and Treatment

• Link Between Employment, Identity, and Mental Health

  • Unemployment weakens identity, dignity, and mental health for veterans ([19:52]).
  • Jobs supply pride and structure, but aren’t the whole picture ([20:37]).

• Treatment & Recovery Pathways

  • Kevin’s own experience: self-medication, depression, and how both treatment and supportive relationships (“my soulmate”) were instrumental in recovery ([21:46], [29:29]).
  • Emphasis on integrated support: therapy can disrupt damaging internal narratives and empower true thriving ([28:35]).
  • Collaboration between treatment centers and employment-focused nonprofits is essential for post-recovery stability ([34:38]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Veteran Narrative:

  "The truth is, the vast majority of us are thriving as a result of our service and not in spite of it." – Kevin Schmiegel ([06:33])

• On Values Learned:

  "No man left behind. That's just what you guys were taught. That's just part of your DNA." – Rich ([07:53])

• On What Veterans Need:

  "We must seek out these five things in our lives because we had them in the military." – Kevin Schmiegel ([08:21])

• On employers’ perspective:

  “If an employer says they're military friendly, say, what does that mean? What are you doing to help me thrive not just in the workplace, but in society?” – Kevin Schmiegel ([14:06])

• On Leadership:

  "I think it's leadership. 100% leadership." – Kevin Schmiegel ([18:22])

• On Early and Orderly Habits:

  "If you're not 10 minutes early, you're 10 minutes late." – Kevin Schmiegel ([19:20])

• On Loss of Identity:

  "They lose their identity. We have a very purpose-driven life in the military." – Kevin Schmiegel ([19:52])

• On Battling the Broken Veteran Stereotype:

  "I want people to see what you see right now. I don't want them to know what happened to me alone over those three or four years. I'm telling veterans my story now, but I think a lot of young people have gotten to believe the BS that's out there." – Kevin Schmiegel ([27:59])

• On Collaboration:

  "This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life is trying to get people to work together to achieve a greater impact." – Kevin Schmiegel ([32:52])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Kevin’s Background & Military Service: [01:10] – [02:52]
• The Problem with Veteran Narratives & Stats: [05:08] – [07:32]
• The Five Pillars & The Origin of Zero Mills: [08:04] – [09:55]
• Hiring Our Heroes & Impact: [10:46] – [11:05]
• Personal Mental Health Struggles: [11:05] – [12:16]
• Transition Barriers & Self-Belief: [13:00] – [14:06]
• Employer Culture & Community: [15:33] – [18:00]
• Leadership & Work Ethic: [18:22] – [19:20]
• Identity, Employment & Wellbeing: [19:52] – [21:14]
• Support for Addiction & Rehabilitation: [21:38] – [23:58]
• Nonprofit Collaboration Challenge: [32:39] – [33:27]
• Vision for “Military Thriving Regions”: [31:27] – [34:38]
• Final Thoughts on Collaboration & Next Steps: [34:38] – [36:48]

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Tone and Final Thoughts

The conversation is sincere, passionate, and at times raw—a mix of tough love, hope, and pragmatic advice. Both Kevin and Rich challenge prevailing narratives with data and experience, while calling for more nuanced, holistic approaches to support veterans—not just to avoid crisis, but to build lives filled with meaning, connection, and contribution.

As Kevin succinctly puts it:

“We are veterans, we served, and we are thriving as a result of our service and not in spite of it… The reality is that message is not being said enough.” ([29:58])

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For Listeners

This episode is essential for anyone interested in veterans’ affairs, nonprofit work, workforce development, or mental health. If you want to support veterans—whether as an employer, community member, or policymaker—begin by recognizing and amplifying the strengths and resilience of those who have served.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Kevin Schmiegel]

I want people to see what you see right now. I don't want them to know what happened to me alone over those three or four years. I'm telling veterans my story now. I think a lot of young people have gotten to believe the BS that's out there. If you think about this message being proliferated again and again and again, you start to believe it yourself.

[Podcast Host - Outro Voice]

We want to extend a heartfelt thank you to our listeners because of your incredible support. We're out of Time has reached number one on Apple's mental health podcast chart, number two on the health and fitness chart, and number 26 overall. We couldn't have done this without you. Thank you for being part of this journey with us.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement. That's 888-831-1581. And if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. Please, we're out of Time. Today I'm joined by Kevin Schmiegel, founder of Zero Mills, an organization focused on supporting veterans, addressing critical issues like homelessness and access to resources. Kevin, thanks for being here today.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Thank you for having me. Appreciate it, Rich.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

It's my pleasure, man. Tell us a bit about your background and what led you to start Zero Mills.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, I go back to the time I was a Marine. I grew up in a big Catholic family. My dad was a Marine. My mom was always called to serve, too. She really, as much as my dad, taught me the value of service, she did, too. So I got a scholarship to a small Jesuit university in Massachusetts called the College of the Holy Cross and got my commission in the United States Marine Corps in 1989. And I served from 1989, from the first Gulf War, all the way through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I served 20 years as United States Marine and retired in 2009. I deployed to more than 50 countries in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Spent a thousand nights away from my my kids. And I found purpose. I found my tribe.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Let me ask you, what does that feel like to be away from your children for so long?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

It's hard. But they also understood the the same fundamental principle that my parents taught me, that service is important and that we are all called to serve in different ways. So I think for them it was just as much of a sacrifice. And listen, it's easy for the service member when they are deployed because they are on a mission and they're focused on that mission. I think a lot of times people don't understand that the family serves too the military spouses, the kids that are left back in the States or all over the world. And if their husbands or spouses or fathers and mothers deploy, they're the ones that are sacrificing too.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, especially when they're young. Were you, how old were you? How old were the kids when you were in Iraq?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

From the time they were born in 1995 to the time I retired in 2009, my oldest was 14, then 13 and the youngest one was 9. So I always tell people that my oldest son, who moved six times in 11 years, part of the reason I retired from the military in 2009 was the realization that he would be starting high school. It wasn't like I wanted to leave the Marine Corps. I felt like it was more important, given all the things that my three sons went through, to give them an opportunity to be stable as they entered high school. So that was the biggest reason I left the Marine Corps in 09.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

And why you never gave it up because you still love it and that's why you're of service all the time.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

And that's why I continue to serve. When I left the military in 2009, I had a very high level job. I was the Chief of staff at the U.S. chamber of Commerce in Washington, D.C. i did that for two years. And just like I was an aide de camp for a four star general who was the NATO and US European commander, and I worked on the peace process in the Middle east when he was the special envoy under Bush, I had this very high level job for two years where I traveled around the country, around the world, met with Fortune 500 CEOs, and when I was asked what I wanted to do next by Tom Donahue, who was the President of the Chamber, I wanted to find my way back to service. And I saw this problem that existed when I was in the Marine Corps. A lot of young people who I spoke to about their transition shared with me that they didn't know what they wanted to do next. When I was the Chief of Staff of the Chamber, meeting with these CEOs, they would say they love to hire veterans in 2011. So two years after I transitioned, when Tom Donahue asked that question, I put those two things together.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Isn't that amazing though? Isn't that. That's a God shot, right? Right. I mean, you're in the Chamber of Commerce, so you're surrounded by business and you're hearing all this stuff and you just came from a place where you know that Veterans are transitioning and having a difficult time. And you saw that need and you're filling it, right.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

And not only that, at the time in 2011, unemployment for veterans was 10% nationally. For veterans under the age of 24, it was 30%. And here we are in the middle of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and we have young men and women coming back not knowing what they were going to do next and employers who needed the talent, not hiring them. Well, that one thing led to the next. I ran two other national nonprofits. And then about three and a half years ago, I saw a problem that I thought needed to be addressed too much like when I started hiring Our Heroes In 2011, we created a military friendly movement. If you Fast forward to 2022, unemployment for veterans is at an all time low. There's a massive skills gap in America. Ten and a half million unfilled jobs. But people are still talking about veterans as if they're broken and they're not providing value in the workforce, when the truth is veteran unemployment has been lower than civilian unemployment for the last 10 years. So what I saw were a confluence of nonprofits across the country painting this narrative, a broken veteran narrative, when I recognize there are challenges.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

So why are they doing that? Just to raise money for their nonprofits?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Oh, absolutely. Sympathy and pity sells.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

If you want sympathy, it's between and syphilis in the dictionary. Well, go on.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

The truth is. The truth is a vast majority of us are thriving as a result of our service and not in spite of it. So we saw this problem, the broken veteran narrative, and it's influencing young people right now. The propensity for young people to serve in our military is at an all time low. And the history of the all volunteer force at 9%. 62% of young people in America think that every service member leaving the military, every veteran, will have some form of a psychological disorder. So all.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

What is the. So what is the correct stats on that?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

On what?

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

How many people, how many people come back with. With a mental health disorder?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, it's not 62%. And listen, these things that I don't.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Want you to give.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, I don't know the exact number and I don't think anyone knows the exact number.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

And I agree. But if it's not 62%, give me your best guesstimate based on your expertise.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, if I look at a scale of people who are veterans in society, in the workforce, and the way I talk about it is 90% of us are doing okay or thriving. It's the 5 or 10% that we have to lift up our brothers and sisters who are struggling. And what I'm saying is I had my own struggles too.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Do you know how beautiful that is, how you just said that? It's like that's just no man left behind. That's just what you guys were taught. That's just part of your DNA.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, that is who we are. And, and listen, the realization is when I was in the military, when I was a United States Marine, it was the most thriving time in my life because I had five things. So this is what Zero Mills is focused on. When we were in the military, my brother Paul Cucinata, who I've known for 20 years, the co founder of Zero Mills, and I were thriving. We've known each other for 30 years because we had five things. We had meaningful employment. We had a sense of purpose in our work through service. We had a connected community, a tribe. The Marine Corps is a tribe. Our brothers and sisters, we took care of our health and well being. Name another employer in America that gives you an hour to an hour and a half every day to take care of your physical health, which leads to good mental health. And we were filling our kit bags up. There's a saying in the Marine Corps, when you find something good, you laminate it, you put it in your kit bag and you take it to the field. Those are the things that we need in our life to constantly seek self improvement. Education, training, certification, being a mentor, being a mentee. Our company is focused on giving every veteran what they need to thrive outside of service. As soon as they transition. We shouldn't be saying you're entitled to be a veteran. We earn the title soldier, sailor, marine, airman, guardian, sentinel. We must earn the title veteran. And we must seek out these five things in our lives because we had them in the military. People who are struggling, whether it's when they come out of the military or later in their lives in transition in careers or moving houses or in divorces, all these things, they still need to focus on these five things. And everyone wants to talk about the employment piece. A job is not the only thing we have in our lives. We need those other four things too.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Rich, you're exactly right. You are exactly right on all five pillars of, of what you need for support and thriving. What have been some of the most rewarding moments with Zero Mills?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, I want to just say one thing. We're not saying that. Look at us. We're thriving. Both my business partner and I were at times where we were barely surviving too, and we don't want another veteran to go through the same thing. This is through experience. So after I founded and led Hiring our heroes for three years, raising $40 million from 40 massive companies in America and created a military thriving movement, that program has now helped a million veterans find meaningful employment. A million veterans and military spouses across the country.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

You helped a million people find jobs?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, through that program, I led it for three years. It still exists.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

What's it called?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Hiring Our Heroes. It's the biggest employment program for veterans and spouses in this country.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Is this something you can donate to?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yes, of course. Most of the money they get right here.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Tell the viewers how they can donate to this.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

This is largely driven by corporate giving, so companies are largely supporting it and people can get involved as volunteers as well, too. That employment problem that existed then doesn't exist at the same level now. But the important point I wanted to make is, is when I left Hiring Our Heroes, I left because I was working 80 hours a week. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. My health wasn't good. So I left that organization, even though I loved it, to go on and take care of myself. What I didn't realize at the time, it was the worst possible decision I could have made because for six months I spiraled. And guess why? I lost my sense of purpose. I lost my tribe. I wasn't taking care of my health physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. And I spiraled for six months and fell into a deep depression that lasted years until I recognized that I needed to go back and serve. And I'll tell you a story because.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

I know you could have done. You could have stayed there and exercised a work life balance so you didn't have to give up anything to get something else. Yeah.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Until a young person who's 23 years old, a sergeant, comes up to you in Chicago and said, sir, you changed my life today. I got a job. When someone does that, they don't realize they change your life too. So you're driven by something that is inescapable. You're driven by that, that, that change that you're making. And yeah, you have to realize the signs. So I, I coach young leaders who are nonprofit leaders, amazing veterans and military spouses across the country. And, and I tell them the same thing. You're no good to anyone if you don't take care of yourself to make the change that you want to make.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

What's the single biggest barrier vets face when transitioning from combat to career?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

I Think the biggest challenge they face is not believing in themselves the way they should. The fact is, if you look back to 2011 when unemployment was 10%, it's only 3% now. The skills gap in 2011 was 3.5 million jobs in America. It's 10 and a half million veterans. Transitioning service members who are leaving the battlefield are the most equipped to serve in this workforce. They're the best employees, they're the best business owners, they're the best civic assets.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Well, you can't say these guys are the greatest fighters in the world and with the greatest military in the world. And then all of a sudden they get into the public sphere and their civilians and their trash. That it doesn't, it's not congruent. They're not congruent thoughts.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

No. And it, it is this narrative that puts these thoughts in their heads.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

They just got out of their tribe, their purpose, yada, yada yada. They've got the best time of their lives. Okay. They shouldn't have low self esteem when they're walking into the public sector. Okay, the pro, the, the private sector. What's going on here?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, if you think about what military friendly employers say, it's almost as if they're implying they're doing you a favor by giving you a job. If you think about, I'm talking about.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

The individual, the individual service person. Right. Why would he feel.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

It creates these perceptions in their own mind that they're not worthy of these opportunities. It puts them in a position where if for this is pervasive, they hear over and over again in the public's eye that they are broken, that they are challenged, that they are unemployed at higher rates than the civilians, when it's not true. So I see the same look on their faces as I did in 2011 when they were coming in and unemployment was 10% and they did have something to worry about because there was a stigma. All of that is gone. So what I say to them is, don't settle. If an employer says they're military friendly, say, what does that mean? What are you doing to help me thrive not just in the workplace, but in society? What are you doing to work with other nonprofits that give me a sense of purpose through service, allow me to connect with my tribe, take care of my health, fill my kit bag up with those things? I need to constantly seek self improvement. Employers can invest in that. And you know What? There are 45,000 military and veteran connected nonprofits in this country. A vast majority of us, a vast majority of Them are saying veterans are broken. So they're. What I'm. What I'm encouraging them to do is invest in strategies that actually make them money.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

But give me an example. What would that. What would that look like for me? I want to listen. I'm all about supporting my employees. Okay. My business isn't a business. Okay. It's a people.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, I haven't. I have five employees, and we're thriving. You're thriving because they have. We have these five things.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Okay, but you have those five things as an officer.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

No, I have those five things as the CEO of Zero Mills. And then my four employees have the same thing.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Because you were an officer in the military?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

No, because I've created a culture where all of my employees and myself have a sense of purpose, have a tribe, are connected to a community. We're taking care of our health, and we're filling our kit bags up with education, training, certification, and being mentors of being mentees.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

I think all of this is fantastic. What I'm trying to get to is clarity, because clarity is power. Right. If we want to change the perception of how people are looked at in the hiring sphere, let's just. Let's figure out exactly what these veterans, what the veterans need to thrive and what the employers need to do in order to do that. Because I'm not saying I was lazy with my words. It sounds like a pain in the ass, but a lot of things in life sound like a pain in the ass, and then they're critical, and you get blessing upon blessing upon blessing for doing it. And I'm thinking that this is one of those things.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right. So for an employer to. To adopt this culture, they bring in a veteran into their company. So typically, inside a company, you have an affinity group, so veterans that are connected in the company.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

So it's basically what's going on here is a lot of these companies will hire veterans and then have them be goodwill ambassadors for the company.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right. They're just giving them opportunities by funding a nonprofit that allows them to volunteer in the community, at a school, to be a coach, a soldier coach.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

That's fantastic.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

To take care of their health with an organization like Team Red, White and Blue to do disaster relief operations with Team Rubicon.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

This sounds exactly what. This sounds exactly like the kind of program I'd be running.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right. And if they do that, if they invest in that strategy and they shout it from the rooftops that they're doing for the veterans, they're going to attract them and keep them so they Lower recruiting and retention costs and they drive consumer behaviors too.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

All right, what's the most overlooked skill veterans bring to civilian companies?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

I think it's leadership. 100% leadership. They learn how to manage complex organizations and they have incredible technical skills that the military invests in. But the truth is leadership and management.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Do you know what my experience is as an employer? Employing these guys. Self starters entrepreneurs. They're self starters. They don't need to be told. Okay. They do whatever is necessary, even if it's not in their job description. Without complaint. Like it was. Well, it was there. Of course I was going to pick that up. Of course I was going to order that thing. Of course I was going to. Right. I mean, always. That's their gift. I mean, that's a huge gift.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Oh, even, even just work ethic and showing up to work on time, I mean.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

No, no. Always. No, no. Early. You were early. You were a half hour early.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

That's right. If you're not 10 minutes early, you're 10 minutes late.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

I go. If you're not. If you're not early, you're late.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

That's right.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Got it. Always. Even the homeless encampments that veterans are in are different than other encampments because they're buttoned up. They're like, they're like a military locker. Have you ever noticed that?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yeah, they're orderly.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, they sure are. All right, you and I agree that nothing beats the mental health benefits of having a job. In your experience, what happens to a veteran's mental health when they're unemployed for too long?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yeah. Again, seeing this going back 14 years, I think they lose their identity. We have a very purpose driven life in the military. And I think when you step off and you're faced with that challenge at any point in your life, then meaningful employment gives you dignity. And it is a big part of our identity. I truly believe that it shouldn't be the only part of your identity. Based on my experience.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

No. But if you don't have a job, if you don't have a job, okay. You're going to have mental issues because that's the most esteemable thing you can do is work to be self supporting.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yes. And I'll also tell you, when I left that organization hiring our heroes because I needed to take care of my health and I spiraled and I was depressed. I actually did get a job back with the U.S. chamber of Commerce and I was a very successful fundraiser in different form or fashion for the chamber. I had a better job, a bigger title. I was Making a lot more money and I was working half the time. But then I really did spiral because I didn't have those other things that really meant something to me.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Why didn't you do something? Volunteer work. So if you did some volunteer work that you were passionate about, you could have kept that other job?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, exactly. And that's what I'm encouraging employers to do, do. Because once you're in that rabbit hole, it's hard to get out of. And it, it took another veteran, a Vietnam veteran, who saw me in a crowded space and could see the affect in my face that I was struggling to say, well, why don't you just consider going back to nonprofit work? Which is what I did. And I immediately, immediately came out of that hole.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

What do you do when you come across a veteran or their immediate family members are abusing drugs or alcohol?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, since I was in that position too, I was self medicating when I was depressed. And what were you using? Just alcohol. I didn't know. Not sleeping. Like typical things. I keep on going back to my North Star, which is purpose.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

They need treatment.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right?

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Okay. They're homeless, they're without jobs. It's the most dehumanizing thing in the world. One day a week of therapy doesn't fix that.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Just a support group doesn't fix that. You know what fixes that? You stop doing drugs and alcohol so you're not in harm's way. You know, big thing now, man. 40% of the military members and veterans that come in here swearing they're not on or on.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yeah.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

So they can, they can die. So we're out of time now on this thing. They have to be sent to treatment. This is all these, all these non profits should know. And not only that, but the, the VA's are, are over overbooked. I mean, you have to wait for beds.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

You're right. We're out of time on a lot of these issues. So there's two ways of looking at it. People talk about getting upstream all the time. So how do you get to a young service member that's right out of boot camp and they're not having any issues at all all the way to the time they transition. If they serve for 4 years, 8 years, 12 years, how do we get ahead of the problem? And we make them recognize these five things they have when they're in the military. And to embrace those things, you cut the problem off at the end. The reality is through 20 years of war and the global war on terror, places like Iraq and Afghanistan and people come back broken, both visibly and invisibly. Of course, there's going to be challenges down the road, but I will tell you this, Rich. The nonprofits that we work with soldiers to sidelines. Travis Mannion Foundation. The mission continues. Team Rubicon, Team Red, White and blue Wear blue Run to remember no one's.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Going downstream Again, better is better. In what universe is good good enough? Okay, you take these people and you put them with these. With these, well meaning, doing real good work. Nonprofits. Okay? What I'm offering is to have therapists or my addiction research fellow, literally go down to these places and train up therapists and put in modalities and things that are shown to be effective. But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to give the best treatment protocol in the world to veterans and the masses. That's why I'm treating all these veterans. That's why at the end of next year, I'm going to be treating a thousand veterans a month.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Right? So. So what I'm saying is there's a group of people that are at a point of crisis that you want access to if you want to address that.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

I want that. I want access to treatment, right?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

To access treatment and help.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

And I don't care if it's with me or anybody. I just care that I train these people. I just care that they're getting the best treatment in the world, right? Because they're the. Because they are the people who deserve it.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

And I want the same things. And what I'm saying is we can reduce that number by looking before, but also looking after. So what I would love to do with you is connect you with nonprofits where there is a gigantic pool of people that were in the middle of this crisis point, whether it be addiction, whether it be struggling from depression and other mental health issues for whatever those reasons. But no one is looking at this back end here after they have gotten out of it. Like. Like no one's studying those organizations that I named. There are tens of thousands of men and women walking among those organizations, serving, finding purpose, finding their connection with their tribe, taking care of their health. No one's asking them when they were in this pit of despair what it was that got them out of it. Everyone's studying the point of crisis or saying we need to get ahead of it. When the answer lies in me, the answer lies in people like me that were in that state and found their purpose again, found their tribe again, to.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Find their health through the five pillars, right?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

And through the five Pillars which all of these organizations that I mentioned are not testifying before Congress, are not speaking publicly because they're busy showing veterans what they need to thrive. All I'm saying is I want to address the same thing you want to address, but no one's looking at what us. What got us through this, rather than how can we identify on the front end how to take care of it.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

The problem that you're having, it just hit me, and I know I'm slow. Okay? But the problem you're having is the narrative that all veterans are broken, right, is being perpetuated by nonprofits generating. Who need to generate money for their nonprofits or businesses that need. Hold on. You, on the other hand, are creating a true message, which is, we're not broken. We're actually thriving. Only 5 to 10% of us are actually struggling. And, you know, this is speed bump. It ain't a death sentence. So we can get. We can get past this thing. Okay? Is that.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

That's exactly right. And I want to shine a spotlight.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

But I just want to tell you, it's like. It's like on the Internet, right? I can write something really sweet and 100 people like it, and then I could write something just so salacious, right? And then you got thousands of people, you know, going back and forth. So I feel like this is, like the trap that you're in.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

I know what I'm up against, but I'm not going to give up. I'm not.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Now, let me ask you a question. Why is it so important for you to let the world know, okay, that veterans aren't broken?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Because I was myself, and I don't let that define me. I want people to see what you see right now. I don't want them to know what happened to me alone over those three or four years. I'm telling veterans my story now, but I think a lot of young people have gotten to believe the BS that's out there. If you think about this message being proliferated again and again and again, you start to believe it yourself. So the people who are struggling, sometimes, maybe they accept that when they should hear from people like me who have gotten on the other side of it.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

But that's why treatment's so important.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Amen.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Because when you come in, okay, to treatment, that lie that you were told that you're broken is. Hold on. It's exposed as a lie, okay? Because it's horseshit, okay? And it's not true. And with good therapy now, you walk into the world, it doesn't matter what the, the noise is or what the perception is or anything. It doesn't matter because you now are equipped, okay, to go out into the world and not just exist, but to actually thrive in the world. There's nothing better than top notch treatment. And it doesn't matter if it's for alcohol or drugs or mental health or mental issues. It does not matter. Okay? It's all treated the same way.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yeah. And I guess I should be clear that I did get the treatment that I needed to get better. And I also had a soulmate, a caregiver who helped me through it too.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

And you had a built in reason, though, to be successful and to pull out of it and everything because you have five kids. So it wasn't like you were, you know, you had a wife and you're the dad, so, you know, you're a Marine.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Pull your boots up.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Let's get this thing handled. I'm the dad now.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

I just don't want people to think that I'm saying this is easy. I'm not saying it isn't easy. And I'm not discounting challenges that people have. What I'm. What I'm trying to do is find the balance and get people to see that we are veterans, we served, and we are thriving as a result of our service and not in spite of it. The reality is that message is not being said enough. Everyone's focused on the broken side, and I think we just have to do a better job of finding balance in the conversation. And the truth is, my business partner, who I've known for 30 years, when he was barely surviving, I was thriving. When I was barely surviving, he was thriving. And we lifted each other up. Everyone sees these logos or pictures of a veteran being carried on another veteran's shoulder or a service member carrying someone. I don't see the person on top as broken. I see the person on top as the person that's lifting the person who's holding them up. Because if we support one another in life, if we think about the strength that we get by taking care of other people that are barely surviving right, then we get strength from them. I don't see these things as separate. I see our community as the strongest, most courageous, most resilient community in the world.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

You got anything you're working on right now? What's next?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yeah, so we're really focused on coming to communities, regions of the country like Southern California, where you're doing incredible work, where there's all these organizations in disparate things going on and creating the first military thriving region of the country by connecting all the dots. So all the government agencies, all the nonprofits, all the employers, all the people who want to not only solve the problems that people have, but shine a bright shining light on how veterans and their families can contribute to the workplace and society in those regions. So our goal, our mission is to create military thriving cultures and communities, environments that empower veterans, military spouses and their families as catalysts to growth, as catalysts of change, as catalysts of impact at the local level. So where I want people to know is we're going to go to a place like Southern California and we're going to bring this idea and get people to work together. The problem that we have is so many people are doing things on their own because they don't want to collaborate and they compete. That's really our focus is where can we model a military thriving?

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

You know, that's the, that's the hardest thing when you've got all these, all the duplicity of all of these non profits and they compete instead of collaborate. That drives me nuts.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life is trying to get people to work together to achieve a greater impact.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

It never happens because they're also self interested. But you know what?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

So hard, yeah, I've done it, I've done it before. It, you just, you just create a win, win, win scenario. That's the only way. Because the truth is people, people inherently.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

It'S their baby though, it's their baby. So they've got, they have this vision, they started this thing and they really. And so to get their head around no one plus one equals three is just too much for them.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Well, it's leaders like you who are embracing our community and reaching your arms out to us and asking us to be included. So one of the solutions in working here in Southern California is to work with you to shine a spotlight on all the nonprofits and for you at the end of these sessions to encourage them to work together. So my approach is to connect with people like you who are outside of our ecosystem, just like you're trying to connect with us. If I had to describe my life's work, it's to bridge the civilian military divide, to create understanding and empathy versus sympathy and pity.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Actually, I'm just pissed, quite frankly, that I'm not dealing with this at a.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Greater level or we're going to deal with it together at a greater level. Because I can help you and you can help me and that's what Collaboration.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Is the only thing. Listen, the only thing I care about, okay, is treating a thousand veterans a month so that I can feel finally like I've done something.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

And you know what I want to do? I want those thousand veterans to be connected to the thousands and thousands more here that are thriving. So we continue to lift them.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Well, here's, here's, here's what I propose. Okay. I think that, I think now that I've heard this, what I've learned on this show is that we need to be able to work in concert. A treatment center has to work with someone like you to make certain that there is a job waiting or interview or interviews waiting right when you walk out so that there's no dead time. Because when you walk out of treatment, if you don't know where you're supposed to be, you're in a bad neighborhood. So I want you out, I want you immediately into a jobs seeking program if you don't have one set up. Do you guys ever get from treatment centers who are treating veterans, do they ever get sent to you to place?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

They get sent to all the organizations we work with is the point I'm making. We, we are an integrator and a collaborator. So we work with hundreds of nonprofits nationally and locally. So what I would love to talk about is how do you connect people from treatment to meaningful employment and to the other things that these nonprofits provide that the employers aren't. Other benefits, other benefits and other things they need to thrive. Like there are multiple nonprofits right here in Los Angeles county that people are coming out of treatment. Yes, we need to find them a job, but that is only defines eight hours of their day. What are they doing? The community to serve. What are they doing to find that tribe? So there are other organizations that are out there that connect them.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Absolutely. But job number one is to be able to, to eat. And so you know what I mean?

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Like we talked about the dignity of it.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

That's, that's the most important thing, you know, like the movie Dave.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

And we have that.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Everybody works on Mondays.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Yeah. And we have that. I, I started a nonprofit because I realized that what I, what I also realized is that's not the only thing. So I, I 100 agree. It's always been a passion of mine. I place dozens, dozens of veterans and military spouses every month into meaningful employment.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Man, you're a genuine hero. Kevin Schmiegel.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Thank you. I appreciate you and I appreciate what you're doing.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Oh, you're doing it, man. Thank you so much for being here, buddy.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

Thank you.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

Thanks. I need you to do me one favor. Look into that camera and say, see you next Tuesday.

[Kevin Schmiegel]

See you next Tuesday.

[Rich (Podcast Host)]

He said it.

[Podcast Host - Outro Voice]

We're out of time. Please subscribe on YouTube. Click the thumbs up and leave a comment. Please subscribe on Apple podcast and Spotify and leave a rating and a review and share the we're out of time podcast with others you know who will get value out of it. See you next Tuesday.