Podcast Summary: "Turning Heartbreak Into Purpose! Gregory Swan and Dr. Gary Latson"
We're Out of Time with Richard Taite – August 21, 2025
Episode Overview
On this emotionally charged episode, host Richard Taite is joined by Gregory Swan (co-founder of Fentanyl Fathers) and Dr. Gary Latson (physician, advocate, and founder of Candles in the Wind Foundation). Both guests lost their sons to fentanyl overdoses. They discuss how their personal tragedies fueled a mission to combat drug deaths through advocacy, education in schools, and legislative action. The conversation covers the opioid and fentanyl crises, the impact on families, the importance of reaching young people early, overcoming stigma, and practical tools for prevention and recovery.
Key Discussion Points
1. Turning Grief into Advocacy
- Both Gregory and Dr. Latson recount the heartbreak of losing their sons, Drew and Trevor, to fentanyl.
- Gregory: “I was a mess for a long time. The work that we're doing is the pathway out of the grief.” [00:07]
- Dr. Latson: “After my son passed, I had a really hard time of grief.” [00:20]
- Richard emphasizes the power of sharing these stories: “The bereaved parent is the linchpin to kids paying attention.” [06:44]
- They recall how meeting Richard's son was bittersweet—joy at connecting with children, grief at their own loss.
- Dr. Latson: “Sometimes there's a twinge of, like, almost jealousy that other people still have their children... but I celebrate that you do still have yours... It’s so precious.” [03:17]
2. The Reality of Fentanyl’s Impact
Personal Losses
- Drew's Story: Clean for a year and a half, relapsed at a Miami rave, took what he thought was methadone (actually fentanyl). [13:04–13:56]
- Gregory: “He relapsed at a rave in Miami. That’s right. Was given a Molly. And he called me, his brother, and his mother and said, I need to get back on track. I slipped up...” [13:04]
- Trevor’s Story: Started with cannabis, progressed rapidly to polysubstance use. Avoided opiates until his final relapse with cocaine laced with fentanyl. [10:48, 14:09]
- Dr. Latson: “He was a thrillseeker... He never used opioids... but he died alone in his bathroom.” [10:04, 15:05]
- Dr. Latson admits shame over sharing the cause of death: “For months, I didn’t even tell my co-workers that my son had died of a drug overdose, because of the stigma.” [15:18]
The Shift in Overdose Demographics
- Richard: “The kids that are dying today are the straight-A students that go to the rave on the weekend… Because they don’t have the fentanyl tolerance.” [13:01, 14:02]
- Gregory: “Nobody rolls their eyes at us in our high school assemblies. Stunning… when you talk about life and death, that gives you the license to really get their attention.” [33:12]
3. School and Community Outreach
The Fentanyl Fathers Model
- Launched to bring bereaved parents’ stories to schools; now reached over 200,000 students. [25:29, 42:56]
- Gregory: “The difference that separates the men from the boys in this business is those who can get into schools and those who can’t.” [41:51]
- Saw dramatic drops in Miami-Dade overdoses after comprehensive outreach: “Deaths went down by 350 year over year… We saw every high school and every middle school in Miami-Dade.” [55:07]
The Need to Begin Early
- Richard and Dr. Latson argue prevention should start before high school—ideally in kindergarten, tailored for every age group.
- “High school’s too late … Every grade, starting with kindergarten, right at the beginning of each semester… It becomes conditioning.” [27:10–28:46]
- Dr. Latson: “What really is necessary for prevention is for them to hit it emotionally… that’s where parents that have lost a kid can break the ice.” [30:16]
4. Overcoming Stigma and Changing Medical Practice
- Dr. Latson notes most doctors “don’t know anything about addiction,” and receives support from Gregory and Richard about the need for better medical education. [16:47–17:51]
- Gregory shares a story of being irresponsibly advised by his doctor to come off pain meds cold turkey, illustrating the medical community’s lack of expertise in addiction care. [19:51–20:53]
5. Legislative and Systemic Solutions
- Halt Fentanyl Act: Gregory was at its signing. Makes fentanyl-related substances permanently illegal (Schedule I), increasing penalties for dealing. [66:34–67:51]
- Outcome: “Allows you to put guys who are in this game away for 10 years minimum.” [67:08]
- Advocacy for making Narcan widely available, with campaigns for free distribution in schools and homes. [87:09–90:27]
6. Support Networks: The Angel Army
- Collaboration with Jackie Siegel and the Victoria’s Voice Foundation to form the Angel Army, recruiting thousands of bereaved parents as advocates to cover every school in America. [59:23–64:08]
- Gregory: “We want to aggregate at least 100,000 Angel Army. Like FedEx or UPS, have a logistical approach to this army going out and taking responsibility for a state and for a county and for districts to make sure every school sees a bereaved Parent Presenter.” [73:05]
- Plan for the “Angel Army Ascendancy”—a conference to train, connect, and mobilize bereaved parents nationwide. [92:03]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Love costs $5.” – Drew, Gregory’s son, as a child. [04:18]
- “There’s a million bereaved parents in the country. We want to aggregate at least 100,000 Angel Army.” – Gregory Swan [73:05]
- “It’s the emotion, not the facts and figures. They need to realize, your buddy’s going to die of this.” – Dr. Gary Latson [44:28]
- “We don’t do things over and over again until we get them right. We do them over and over again until we can’t get them wrong.” – Quoted by Richard Taite from Nick Saban [43:26]
- “Hold back those staggering toward the slaughter…If you claim it’s not your responsibility, God…knows you knew.” – Gregory, quoting Proverbs, on the moral imperative for action [76:18]
- “Listen, absolutely, for me, it’s okay. It’s something I could never get over. It is… the most unnatural thing in the world to bury your child.” – Richard Taite [65:02]
Practical Advice and Resources
On Prevention and Conversation
- Start education EARLY—kindergarten is not too soon. Use age-appropriate stories and re-enforce annually. [28:13]
- For parents wanting to talk to their kids: “Sit down with your child and watch the 20-minute movie called Dead on Arrival at the Fentanyl Fathers website.” – Dr. Gary Latson [86:54]
On Narcan (Naloxone) Use
- “Narcan is specific for opioid overdoses… simply spray Narcan in one nostril and within 30 seconds or more, it can reverse the effect.” [87:22]
- “Any family with kids between 10 and 20 should have Narcan in the household”— recommended by American Academy of Pediatrics. [90:01]
- Free Narcan may be available via NarcanNow.us or local nonprofits. [88:25]
On Getting Help
- National helplines: 988 for crisis/emotional support. [93:58]
- Fentanyl Fathers: fentanylfathers.org | Angel Army: angelarmy.com
- Richard Taite’s organizations: carreraTreatment.com, onecallplacement.org
Audience Q&A Highlights
Q: How to stop a child from self-medicating via Snapchat?
A: Acknowledge the ease of access; send resources and (free) books like Victoria’s Voice; educate early; remind of the dangers of unprescribed pills. [79:38–80:58]
Q: How to test a pill for fentanyl? A: Test strips exist but are not fully reliable. “If your child has an unprescribed pill… you can absolutely assume that it has fentanyl in it.” [83:10–83:53]
Q: How to have the conversation? A: Use emotion-triggering resources (like the Dead on Arrival film and Fentanyl Fathers’ assemblies), not just facts. “Start the conversation with a real story—it’s the only thing that works.” [86:21–86:54]
Call to Action & Closing
- The guests emphasize that everyone is responsible for fighting this crisis—parents, teachers, politicians, communities.
- Bereaved parents can turn pain into purpose through action and advocacy.
- Schools and legislators must open doors, support evidence-based, emotionally impactful education, and prioritize the earliest possible intervention.
- If you’re struggling or know someone who is, reach out for help—resources and hope are available.
Contact & More Information:
Emergency: Call 988 for immediate support.
“It really gives us purpose in our son's passing to be here and to advocate.” — Gregory Swan [00:07]