Unknown (5:55)

And you, you mentioned that one of your first assignments out of the Naval Academy was in Camden, New Jersey where obviously the battleship is more to will be again as soon as we return back to, to Camden from dry dock. What did you do in Camden? Where did you live in? Did you live in in New Jersey?

Admiral Paul Reason (6:16)

Oh sure. After graduation I spent a year in training as a nuclear engineer and six months of that was in Bainbridge, Maryland which is no longer has a naval station. But that's where I learned that all sorts of reactor science and higher math and physics and so forth. Then we had a land based prototype for training in West Milton, New York. So we spent six months there and from there I was assigned to my first ship which was, which became USS Truxton, a nuclear powered guided missile cruiser being built at New York ship in Camden New Jersey. So we moved from upstate New York, Saratoga Springs. They came to New Jersey to join that ship under construction. My wife was pregnant at the time, and we got an apartment in Haddonfield and lived in Haddonfield. And our first child was born while we were stationed there. We had to go across the Walt Whitman Bridge to get to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital that used to be right there at that. The bottom of. It's a broad street. Yeah. So we have very fond memories. And we ate a lot of Campbell soup. I had grown up with that.

Unknown (7:40)

Yeah, absolutely. Still a major company in cam. Major employer in Camden.

Marshall (7:45)

Well, that's.

Unknown (7:47)

That's a small world. The history of. Of coming to Camden, serving on the battleship. Now the battleship's back in Camden. Incredible history. In 1964, you met then Captain Hyman Rickover meeting which you've credited with changing your career. And in a nutshell, I guess the situation is at the end of the day, you stood your ground. I guess my question to you is, in that type of situation, a young officer, almost. What gave you the courage to do that at that time?

Admiral Paul Reason (8:36)

Well, Admiral Rickover asked me a hard question. He said, you know, you have a lot of education, but you don't stand number one in your class. Why is that? And I said, well, you will notice that I follow a different curriculum than most of my classmates because I was able to validate, that is, not take classes in the standard curriculum. And there were 22 of those courses I didn't have to take. So I was taking my first year. I went to class with most of the seniors, which. And then I took a group of electives. You know, I've learned Boolean algebra. Algebra as a. A senior in college, where most people are in the fourth grade. But that was not known when I was in fourth grade. So it was a really quite a nice educational experience that I enjoyed at the Naval Academy. So I said, there are other people who work a lot harder than I do because they're learning things for the first time. And I said, I am learning a lot about the Navy, not just about being a. The academic endeavors at the Naval Academy. So he said, well, if you will increase your land standing by 20 others by graduation, you've had to come with. And I said, I don't like him. He said, I want you to swear. I said, sir, I cannot swear to a lineup, because if people who are ranking ahead of me get all A's and I get all A's, my relative standing will not change. You're a disgrace. Get out of here. And there was a gentleman who grabbed my my shoulder and led me out of the office. They had me sit in a waiting room for probably about 12 hours. Close to midnight, the deputy to Evan Brickover, Mr. Wagner, Mr. Wagner came and said, Mitch, let me come with me. We went into a small office. There was a wonderful older woman who was sitting. And he said, I have a statement. I need you to sign the statement square. I will move my class standing by 20 numbers before graduation. And I said, I make a cup of ed. I will do everything within my power to increase my class. And I said, promise you I'll get all these. But I'm pretty sure I can. But I can't swear that I will increase my class, so I cannot scientist. And he said, well, that's not what the Admiral wanted to hear. I went back to the waiting room. One of my other classmates was there. They put us in a car, took us back to Annapolis. The next morning at 6:45, they posted the roster of people who had been selected for nuclear power. I was the second, so I just held my ground. But I guess Admiral Rickover, who I got to know fairly well over the years, respectively, unwellness, dissonance, incredible story from.

Unknown (12:12)

Someone who's still a midshipman. That certainly speaks.

Admiral Paul Reason (12:17)

Well, I was older. I'd been.

Unknown (12:22)

Absolutely. And then from 1976 to 1979, you served as a naval aid to the President of the United States. First, I understand the later years of President Ford's term as well as then into President Carter's term. So what did you. Well, first of all, how did you end up in that type of a role? Obviously, very few get to serve in that sort of capacity. And I'd love to hear what you enjoyed about it, what you disliked about it. Obviously, a very unique opportunity.

Admiral Paul Reason (13:03)

I was assigned to the Bureau of Naval Personnel right outside of Washington. And I guess that was nineteen.

Unknown (13:14)

Nineteen seventies.

Admiral Paul Reason (13:16)

Yeah, I guess seventy six. And so the Navy was asked to send over a group of officers for interview. And we were interviewed at the White House. About 10 of us went over. I was one of the two. We were interviewed by Jack Watson, who was one. President Carter's trusted agency, had worked with him for years. And from that series of interviews, I was offered a job as naval aid to the President. And President Carter said, you know, like an admiral, I only need one aid. And the Secretary of defense took maybe three weeks to convince he needed to have at least two aids. If he said, if 1A breaks a leg is not available. His role in the national defense is Compromised. So we require you to have two meetings. And he said, I'll take the Navy guy and the Air Force guy. Well, I was a Navy guy, so I was offered the position of naval aid to the President and fellow named Bob Peterson, who was an Air Force captain or major at the time, I guess, was offered a job as Air Force aide. And the two of us did the job that normally had a person from every service, right?

Unknown (14:47)

Yeah, absolutely.

Admiral Paul Reason (14:48)

The two of us were night, as we would say, we want to starboard. And when one person is with the president and an 8 is with him, anytime he is outside the fence of the White House, and then you're also preparing for the next day, so it's called advancing. And so one of us is advancing the next day, one of us is with President. And that just. That rotation kept us very desperate.

Unknown (15:17)

Sure. What did you enjoy most about that, about that assignment?

Admiral Paul Reason (15:23)

Enjoyment is not. It was very taxing. What I least enjoyed was that even though my family was living four miles from the White House, I would often get home late at night and leave early the next morning. So I didn't get to enjoy my. My family and what was really my first real shore to be and. But it worked out. And working very closely with and for President Carter was one of the joys of my life. And it was one of the only truly honest men I've ever had a chance to point. Yes.

Unknown (16:10)

In today's, you know, day and age and the Hollywood style of, of an interest in the, in the office of the presidency and the lore around the nuclear football, obviously, I'm sure that's something you were very familiar with. Anything you could talk to us about that, that you're able to say about that sort of responsibility and how you felt, I guess, sort of literally holding that responsibility in your hands every day.

Admiral Paul Reason (16:43)

You see, Marshall, those are President Carter stories. It's his president. He's the one who tells how things were carried out, how things were executed, how things were done. Those are not. So I usually really don't talk about it, especially when it's in a form where it can be replaced several times.

Unknown (17:14)

Why, that's Appreciate. Appreciate that. And certainly that perspective is one that's certainly not unexpected.

Admiral Paul Reason (17:24)

Also, I'm up in years now, so, you know, perhaps my recall isn't as it might be otherwise or might have been earlier.

Unknown (17:33)

In 1988, you were placed in command of Cruiser Destroyer Group 1, and then soon later Battle Group Romeo, seeing service across the Pacific and Indian Oceans and in the Persian Gulf. What led you to Take the USS New Jersey as your flagship.

Admiral Paul Reason (17:54)

That was my military assignment. Those are orders.

Marshall (17:57)

Okay.

Admiral Paul Reason (17:58)

I didn't choose.

Marshall (17:58)

Okay.

Admiral Paul Reason (17:59)

You know, I was ordered to command a Battle Group Romeo as I was ordered to command a Cruiser Destroyer Group 1, which was a large number of ships homeport in San Diego. And we had, I believe, two cruiser destroyer groups stationed in San or home ported in San Diego. And as a result, you know, one of us might be deployed like I deployed with Battleboot Romeo, and the other group commander would husband my ships, the ones that were Normally assigned Group 1 for inspections and oversight and guidance and so forth. And so when I went to sea with Battle Group Romeo, I went from command of, you know, actual hands on command of about 30 ships to the smaller battle group. But it was at sea, it was a command at sea. And it was wonderful. It was every naval officer's dream come true to command a group of ships at sea. And people said, wouldn't you rather be on an aircraft carrier? I said, I spent most of the Vietnam War on the carrier Enterprise. It was wonderful to have the alternative to be assigned to the battleship New Jersey as my flagship for Battle for Romeo. So I was truly, truly pleased.

Unknown (19:30)

One of the questions that we get asked a lot, especially when we're doing tours and at the admiral's cabin being right on the other side of the wall from the captain's import cabin, is what's the relationship between an admiral who's serving on a ship versus the captain of the ship? Obviously you had different responsibilities, but that's a question that we get a lot. How did, how was your relationship with then Captain Tucker and how did you two really interact in those roles?

Admiral Paul Reason (20:08)

Captain Ron Tucker, now Admiral Ron Tucker, was the commanding officer of New Jersey. It was his responsibility to determine everything that happened day in and day out on New Jersey. The crew worked for him. Now he worked for me, as did the captains of several other ships that were in company with us. So I had really no direct hands on responsibility for what happened Jersey on a day to day basis, my responsibilities were to call the shots for the entire battle group. So we had, you know, he was driving the ship, but I'm the one that determined where the whole battle group went. And so it was. And we had just a wonderful relationship because he was also like my landlord, you know, my, my cabin was in his condo and we worked very closely together. He was a wonderful, very talented naval officer. And as we traveled on that deployment, our wives also came to the Western Pacific. And it turned out they had birthdays on the same day of the same year. Wow. And Christy and Diane were really a very nice addition when we were overseas and entertaining. And so. And there's a little sea story. We were in Hong Kong on their birthday, 16th of November, and Ron and I had, you know, sort of gotten our heads together and we said we were going to buy them fur coats for their birthday. And we went, I wish I could remember the name of the store. I can't. But we went to the largest furrier in, in Hong Kong and chose beautiful mink coats. And the owner of that store was born on the 16th of November. Wow. He pulled out his driver's license, said, you won't believe those 16 of them. I said, but you're not the same age that they are. He was significantly older, but he was very, very gracious. So we, we have our own little things.

Marshall (22:47)

And you mentioned serving on the USS New Jersey and someone you met at the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Vice Admiral Doug Katz, who served commanding officer of the battleship New Jersey. What were your thoughts on serving with then Captain Doug Katz?

Admiral Paul Reason (23:05)

Oh, yes. Well, Doug Katz and I go back to June of 1961, when we were both plebes at Annapolis at the Naval Academy. And I knew him. We got to know each other during that summer and we remained close ever since that time. And when I was a three star, I guess I was commander of the surface force in Norfolk and all of the surface ships in the Atlantic Fleet, I got orders to Washington and I that was my first Pentagon tour. So was interesting. But Doug relieve, and he was, he had been in Bahrain as the fifth Fleet commander. And Doug came to Norfolk and spinning the three stars and, and relieved me. And as it turns out, you know, we didn't have a face to face turnover because he was coming from the other side of the world and I was going to Washington where you have to be here at this time on this day or else. So he's a very fine person. I consider Doug and Sharon Katz among our lifelong friends.

Marshall (24:23)

Interested to hear your thoughts about what your favorite thing was about serving on the USS New Jersey.

Admiral Paul Reason (24:32)

Oh, Marshall, that's tough. I really believe serving on any and or every Navy ship on which I serve, the, the true amazing valve of that experience is the sailors. They're amazing individuals. They do things that you don't anticipate that are focused on delivering a mission in the best possible way. And you know, and they surprise you. They do things you don't ask them to do, but things they know need to be done. And when I talk about sailors. Some of those sailors are 18 years old and some of them are 53. And you don't know which one is going to step up and really lead to the success of what you're trying to accomplish. But it's amazing how quickly they do and how many work. And so serving with people who've chosen that usually at a young age to serve their country is always a wonderful experience. So that's, that's the proof they're putting it. This is a great country with great people.

Marshall (26:02)

You were put in command of Battle Group Romeo. Love the listeners to hear your thoughts and impressions of commanding the battle group and the lessons learned from it.

Admiral Paul Reason (26:14)

That's probably a book that could be written. And you know, the, I guess the hard part about being in a combat area and being in a tense, politically charged environment is that you live minute to minute. You know, you can't plan what you're going to do tomorrow at noon because the situation will be different. And you have a large staff that is focused on many different factors, you know, from intelligence to how much fuel you have. Do you have enough food for the thousands of people who are with you? And is there anything that's going to disrupt your tanker that's coming in to deliver the fuel that you're going to need in three days or something like that? And you know, you, you have to figure out how to, to best accommodate the needs of your crew and the crew of the other ships. And that's all inside basic. But then you have to be concerned and project what the people who are opposed to your presence might have in mind. And you look for tippers, you evaluate your intelligence and you make sure that you're in your best defensive posture. And fortunately, while we were in the Persian Gulf, no one chose to shoot at the battleship because they knew we could shoot back. And most people don't realize that each one of the 16 inch guns on a battleship can throw a high explosive projectile, 25 lines. And that projectile really is about the size, size of a VW Bug filled with explosives. So it's a pinpoint accuracy, a deadly, deadly projectile. People have to think twice if they're going to cause trouble. And they didn't.

Marshall (28:31)

Yeah, when I hear you tell it that way, I think to a quote from the former commandant of the US Marine Corps, General PX Kelly and his comments about the battleship service off the coast of Beirut. Just the presence of the symbol of the battleship was enough to encourage a ceasefire.

Admiral Paul Reason (28:53)

I knew PX when he crossed paths up in Seattle A long time ago, but he was a very insightful leader.

Ryan (29:04)

In 1996 you were. Now for your four star US Atlantic meet, interested in hearing your sharing what it felt like at the time and then also now looking back on it some years later, how you sort of feel about it off net.

Admiral Paul Reason (29:28)

I don't know, Marsh. Now it's kind of tough to encapsulate how you feel going through a naval career, you know, and being African American. There are a lot of things I did for the first time, if you will. But that wasn't why they were done. That wasn't why, at least as far as I know why I got certain assignments. There may have been more assignments I didn't get than I did get because I was after. But you don't have visibility to those things, you know, and in the military, orders are orders. So when I get ordered to command the USS Kunz, I pack my parachute bag on my cruise box and I report for duty. When I got orders to command USS Bainbridge, there were only probably two officers in the whole Navy who were not currently assigned who were qualified for that job. And I was one of them. And I got command of that ship. The other guy got command of another ship just a few months later. So I can't evaluate that because I don't have visibility. All I could do was what I was committed to do for the day I was commissioned. And that is do my very best job for the Navy, for the nation, for my family and for myself. And so I did. And that led to a promotion to four stars and Simon as Commander in Chief, US of Land Flip, which was a magnificent job. I was in command of half of the Navy. You know, that's ships and submarines, airplanes, shore stations and seas bases and just endless number of things with a huge budget in billions and billions of dollars. But I had a lot of help. You know, I had a staff of 450 people. People said, isn't that exorbitant? No, that's what was needed. Those were not excess people. Those were people who were specialists in small areas of what it takes to run hundreds of ships and couple hundred thousand people.

Ryan (31:59)

Very stick out to you. Favorite memories?

Admiral Paul Reason (32:10)

I don't know, probably there are too many competing memories. We did a lot of travel and a lot of international relations. I probably got to know every leader of every navy that bordered the Atlantic, that's from Russia to Argentina. We visited the Russian Navy and the Russian Navy visited us. I was with the Argentinian Navy. I was at the very southern tip of, of South America and but they also came to Norfolk. So it's there are just hundreds of days of interesting importance that you do and sometimes you have a lot of them that come on the same day and you need staff to help you choose which ones you must do and which ones your deputy can do. So it's just a very fast paced few years in your life that each day is moving you forward at a pace where you say wow, this is really fast and really important and you have to choose what things you're going to do and what things you can't do because you can't do it all.

Marshall (33:41)

Sir, I came across an op ed in June 2020 written for the US Naval Institute by a retired captain Chris Bott who served on New Jersey as a junior intelligence officer on your flag staff. He wrote about the challenging navigation up the Columbia river in Oregon. There you had protesters hoping to stop the battleship in protest of the perforation of nuclear weapons. And Captain Bot says Admiral Reason had a different perspective. We fight for this group's right of free speech. This is what sets us apart. We're protectors of those rights. In a calm commanding counter to conventional wisdom which was something close to cut their ropes, the admiral reminded us that we had raised our hands to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. He undergirded the sanctity of free speech, pointing out that these Americans were not the enemy and that we, the more powerful force could pause for a moment to let them have their say, which we did. His decency came from a place of strength and confidence in what was right, fair and just in the American experiment. And he counseled us with a smile that won us over.

Ryan (34:50)

Wanted to hear your just sort of reaction to that. Sounds very much like your what you just said model of just trying to be the right thing. That was in the best. Obviously our k seemed like in this particular instance that things grew. Was interested in hearing any recollections you have of this out day in particular.

Admiral Paul Reason (35:21)

I remember it quite well and Chris Bott is one of the Navy's best and forward looking specialists. That had been a long time good man. I remember the the incident like it was yesterday. 83 years old. The battleship was going up the Columbia river to Portland for the Portland Rose Festival and Battleship New Jersey had never been up there. It was a big deal for Portland to have somebody win its way up this river with a huge battleship. So at oh what's the name of the bridge but the bridge crossing the Columbia river very close to the mouth of the river. There were, I think, six young people who had repelled down from the bottom of the bridge in an effort to stop the battleship. So they were trying to block every course that we might take to transit under the bridge. And I was in my in port cabin and Captain Ron Tucker called down and said, admiral, I need some help. Can we come up to the bridge, please? And I said, certainly. And I got up there and I could see in front of us this huge bridge and six people hanging below the bridge. And he said, what are we going to do? And Chris Wach was there, so he knows the discussion we had. And. But when you get right down to it, I said, let's count from the left. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Just drive right between number four, number five. And he looked at me, yes, sir. We drove through and I said, put a couple of people up, honey, so if we get too close to someone, they can fend off, that is, swing the person out of the way. And I said, I don't think you're going to have that problem. No, I think you're right. 4 and 5 is where we have the biggest gap and we'll just go right through. And I said, now turn the radars off so they're not rotating. And then he said, got it. So we went right through. We pulled in to Longview, Washington, where we were going to spend the night rather than go up the river around after. It was really dark. When we pulled alongside, I went ashore. My wife had come down for Long View. And we spend the night there because it was our anniversary. And as I stepped off the ship, all the TV stations, all the reporters, Admiral, what do you think about those people hanging down from the bridge trying to stop the battleship? I said, well, we're always accustomed to people hanging around trying to get a better look at the battleship. And that ran on the evening news of in Portland and Seattle and la, too, I think. So that was. That was an interesting day. The next morning we got up and took the ship on the way of the Willamette or to the Willamette river, where the Columbia and the Willamette meet is Portland. And we had a delightful, absolutely delightful visit there and got thousands of people to come aboard and visit the whaleshoot. And that was not the decommissioning, that was just a visit to the Portland Rose Festival. We got underway, went back to Long beach.

Ryan (39:05)

Okay. We eventually captained a few times. The name of this podcast.

Admiral Paul Reason (39:16)

Stuff Eat the Stuff Up.

Ryan (39:19)

It was taken, as he told us, was taken into Minecraft he brought with him. It was hatched on ship's last battlefly, the maze he flew. I will share a couple of those stories for us. Just wondering. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you also there any sort moments or thoughts about Admiral Tucker time on the battleship that.

Admiral Paul Reason (40:00)

Well, I think that motto, that acronym was truly a badge of the genesis of the leadership expertise of the almost of the love and appreciation that the crew of New Jersey had for their captain and they embraced his. His acronym and it became a. A what can I say, A universally attitude for how to accomplish things the right way the first time you attempt them. And so they would did some very hard things. We went through some tremendously difficult weather situations. I remember on. On one we hit a storm and it picked up the atmosphere, which was my boat, and impaled it on a stanchion. So it's a fiberglass boat that had a big steel stanchion going up through the middle. And you know, this was tough boat, tough boat because we were going into maybe one of the Guam things they would do is put my barge in the water so I could go ashore. So Ron said, you know, this is a tough situation. I said, I know Ron, but you'll figure it out. And so between that storm and arriving in Guam, he had his own boat repainted. His would have a gray hole, mine had a black hole. So he painted his boat black and painted it and put stars on it. And so. So I got a new barge. He had a hope a boat left with a hole in the bottom. But you know, wetsu was the motto of the people who were doing that work under adverse conditions at sea. You know, you normally do these things in a big garage where you have paint drying lights and spray guns and so forth. They did it at sea. So when the boat was launched, he was right there next to me and said wet sue.

Marshall (42:20)

That'S a great story. Lastly, I'll ask you your feelings about what we're doing at the battleship as stewards of the ship on behalf of the 45, 000 sailors and marines who served on her. Obviously, the battleship is a museum of memorial now, and we have been for the last 25 years or so. Many of our veterans now serve in a different way, as does the battleship. Can you tell us your impression about what we're doing here at the battleship and how we're trying to keep history alive and you know, what you would like to see from the battleship going forward over the next 25 years?

Admiral Paul Reason (43:06)

Well, I Think you have a. A wonderful calling for a very difficult undertaking. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to maintain a ship. You know, it's made out of steel. Steel rusts. Now, the Navy figured this out a long time ago, and that's why we paint ships. But paint is not forever. Steel that's painted is forever because it doesn't rust if it's properly painted. So you have undertaken a project that will go on for years and years and years, and you've done it in such a way that the community appreciates it, the Navy appreciates it, history appreciates it, and you're being emulated. You know, I had a hand in getting to Wisconsin and Norfolk, and since then, they've moved to Missouri, to Pearl harbor, and the Iowa, I guess, is in Los Angeles now. So you're being emulated, and that's the highest form of. You're doing something that's really important to America and to Americans, not just those who serve. Those ships are unique examples of what this nation can do. They're machines that no one can get their head around. How it was built. You know, when you see it in. In dry dock, you look up and you say, how'd they do that? And you look at the. The screws, the propellers, you say, how do they make those? Well, it's American ingenuity that's been in place for a long time, but it gets better every year. So we make better screws now than we did in 19 2. We make better paint now than we did. And the bottom paint on New Jersey now will probably last 50 years, whereas the last paint only lasted 30 years. But it's. It's just a sign of what Americans can do with their ingenuity and their intense focus and interest in education and technology. One of a kind. She's great. She'll.

Marshall (45:39)

Admiral Paul Reason, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We are forever grateful for your service to the USS News Jersey, and, of course, to our nation.

Admiral Paul Reason (45:49)

Oh, it's my pleasure. My pleasure. And it's a. It's good to meet you, Marshall, and Ryan, and to know that the battleship's in good hands. Keep her going.

Ryan (46:00)

Thanks.

Admiral Paul Reason (46:00)

You pass.