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WETSU: a BattleshipNJ Podcast
CDR Skip Leeson: Sea Stories from the CO of the Battleship's Beirut Reserve Unit
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- [00:00]
Commander Skip Leeson
Foreign.
- [00:10]
Marshall Spivak
Your battle stations welcome to wetsu, a Battleship New Jersey podcast. I'm your host, Marshall Spivak, CEO of the Battleship New Jersey Museum and Memorial. Today's episode is brought to you by Elec825, the Labor Employer Cooperative of Operating Engineers Local 825, whose highly skilled members played a vital role in the recent dry docking of America's most decorated battleship. It's a real pleasure to have Commander Skip Leeson, U.S. navy, retired, a veteran of the battleship New Jersey and someone whose service to our nation and this ship spans decades. Kip's story begins in Middletown, Delaware and later in Woodbridge, New Jersey, before taking him to Rutgers University and soon after into the US Navy. Commissioned as an ensign in 1967, he trained at the Anti Submarine Warfare School in Key west before joining the destroyer USS Buck 8761 off the coast of Vietnam. On board, he served as the Anti Submarine warfare Officer, the gunnery plot officer, directing ship bombardments, and as the officer of the deck. Notably during this time, the Buck was called upon to protect the USS New Jersey on station off the dmz. After active duty, continued his service in the Navy Reserve, eventually rising to the rank of commander. 1982, he was selected to command the reserve unit attached to the battleship New Jersey, his second reserve ship command. Just a year later when New Jersey was deployed for several months off the coast of Beirut, Lebanon to petition Navy leadership to allow his unit to step in and provide relief. His efforts resulted in the largest peacetime crew relief operation in US Navy history, sending over 700 sailors home for a well deserved rest. Today, Skip continues his service aboard the the USS New Jersey in a new way as an educator, a tour guide, an annual part of our overnight encampment program. His passion ensures future generations understand the history and legacy of, of this great warship. Skip Leon, welcome to wetsu. It's always a pleasure to welcome you home.
- [02:03]
Commander Skip Leeson
Thank you. It's an honor to be here.
- [02:05]
Marshall Spivak
So let's, let's start the conversation where we always start. And that's why did you join the Navy?
- [02:10]
Commander Skip Leeson
Well, it turned out that I was draft deferred. I was working for the U.S. department of Agriculture down at Rutgers University and a couple of my fraternity brothers said, well, we have to go into Whitehall street in New York and take the Navy OCS test. Can you drive us in? So I drove them in. I'm the only one that passed it. And I figured, well, let's do it. My, my uncle was a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy and he was in, he was, he Worked in New York City with, in World War II for all the ships heading out of New York. Overseas.
- [02:41]
Marshall Spivak
You spent some of your formative years here in New Jersey. Did you ever think your naval career would be so intertwined with the namesake ship of where you're from?
- [02:48]
Commander Skip Leeson
No, not really. I mean, I just, I was living in New Jersey at the time I was selected to be commanding officer of the reserve unit. It was the first and only reserve unit ever attached to a battleship in the history of the battleships, the Iowa class and all the others. We were the only ones and it was an honor to be able to do it. I just, I enjoyed it. It was my second startup for a reserve unit. I started with the USS Arkansas CGN, Nuclear Powered Cruiser 41. And I was a start. That was a startup unit also, so I guess they thought I could do it.
- [03:20]
Marshall Spivak
Shortly after ocs, you were signed to USS Buck, which was at the time operating off the coast of Vietnam. What was it like going from college kid to OCS and then I'm assuming shortly thereafter on board a ship where you at a very young age, as a young officer, a junior officer, were serving, you know, as an ood, as a gunnery plot officer in a war zone. What was that transition like for you from young college kid to a young junior officer on board, thrust into a position where you had young sailors at your command? What was that like for you?
- [03:55]
Commander Skip Leeson
It made me a man in a hurry. You grow up fast when you're 21, 22 years old and you're standing up on a bridge of a ship in charge of it. What we did was, well, we were the first ship in Sea of Japan when the Pueblo was taken. We were the ones assigned to go in and Wansan harbor and get it and bring it back out. And of course, if they had said do it, I probably wouldn't be sitting here right now, but we were ready to go. And then when we came back, we wound up anchored mouth of the Saigon river, working with the Australians in three, four, helping them out. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie. Oi, oi, oi. Glug, glug, glug. Take a drink of. And we went up and down the Saigon River a little bit. And then we, we were Johnny on the spot for a lot of things. True. And we made, actually we made two cruises over. They came back to San Diego and then we went back over there again. It was sailing alongside the New Jersey was a very unique experience. Nautical mile is 2,000 yards and we were one mile off the starboard side and she would call us and say, we're getting ready to fire the big guns. So we had to put everybody inside because of the noise. The noise level was terrible.
- [05:09]
Marshall Spivak
Was that the first time you ever saw the battleship New Jersey?
- [05:13]
Commander Skip Leeson
Yes, it was. And it was awesome.
- [05:14]
Marshall Spivak
When you just going back for a second to what you said you were the first ship in the Sea of Japan following the Pueblo. What was the mood like on board your, your ship?
- [05:23]
Commander Skip Leeson
You're sort of, let's go get him.
- [05:25]
Marshall Spivak
What happened?
- [05:26]
Commander Skip Leeson
Let's go get him.
- [05:27]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah. And unfortunately you never got that Sassafa.
- [05:29]
Commander Skip Leeson
Japanese going through a two week destroyer tender availability. And what happened was I come walking on board and noticing that we're let off. Brian McKamey was the OOD at the time, and I said, what's happening? And he's saying, well, the North Koreans stole one of our ships and we're on our way. We're getting underway in an hour. Okay, there we went. There you went.
- [05:52]
Marshall Spivak
We spoke a few episodes ago with our friend Ken Kirsch, who mentioned that during his time in the machine shop he was making replacement parts for the buck. Obviously you didn't know each other at the time, but how did you, how did things move back and forth between the ship, between the two ships, by highline, by barge, by tender? How are things moving across when you were there serving off the coast of Vietnam with the battleship during Vietnam did.
- [06:17]
Commander Skip Leeson
Not have helicopters, so we just went alongside and highlined the compressor over to them. And according to Ken, destroyers don't know how to repair anything anyway.
- [06:27]
Marshall Spivak
And didn't quite say it.
- [06:28]
Commander Skip Leeson
Said it to me. No, we, we had a good relationship over there with the battleship. We made sure ships didn't get too close to it. There were a lot of other ships that were driving around in that area. A five core and Two Corps, because they fired off of both. One DMZ and tuko. They fired off of both. In fact, one of the guys I sailed with, not destroyer, wound up in country on a call for fire mission in two corps and he actually worked with the New Jersey. And you said it was amazing.
- [06:55]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, well, we hear those stories. Well, those are some of my favorite stories to hear about the ship and its history. After active duty, you continue to your service and the Navy Reserve, as you mentioned, eventually commanding two reserve units. The first for the Arkansas CGN41, as you mentioned. And then of course the, the battleship. How did you end up in command of that reserve unit?
- [07:20]
Commander Skip Leeson
I applied for it.
- [07:22]
Marshall Spivak
Okay. Simple as that.
- [07:24]
Commander Skip Leeson
With my background, when I Graduated from ocs I was the color company commander. I mean we, we won everything. So I, I was number one leader when I graduated from OCS And I've always believed in the philosophy you lead people, you manage things and the people you lead are the ones that they do the managing for you. And if it's done correctly, it's very successful. And I did it very, very well for the Arkansas and they said, well, let's give them another chance.
- [07:51]
Marshall Spivak
So you started a reserve? The reserve. At that time there was no reserve unit in. And then one was started in West Trenton. Correct.
- [07:59]
Commander Skip Leeson
Started just before the New Jersey got commissioned.
- [08:02]
Marshall Spivak
Okay.
- [08:03]
Commander Skip Leeson
Long Beach.
- [08:04]
Marshall Spivak
Okay. Were you there for the recommissioning?
- [08:06]
Commander Skip Leeson
No, I was the regional sales manager. And so I had, I was busy.
- [08:12]
Marshall Spivak
In 1983, 1984, you initiated what became the largest peacetime crew relief operation in U. S. Navy history. Sending over 700 sailors home from New Jersey. Deployment off Beirut. As we've talked about previously on Wetsu, the ship was on station for almost 191 straight days without hitting port. How did this idea to institute this crew relief come about and how did you convince navy leadership to ultimately allow you unit to make this happen?
- [08:47]
Commander Skip Leeson
In December of 83 the ship was extended indefinitely without a leave time. Now it's always been known that if you're at it safe for more than a year, then the sailors can keep asking for a transfer. So she had to be out of there by April, but as she was heading over to Beirut was fine. She got there in September of 83 and in December they extended it. And then we decided with the reserve unit, well, let's call up the chief of navy reserve down New Orleans and see if we can see if we can get our reserve unit on board. So we had roughly 250 sailors in the reserve, John Baker and I, and a training officer and budget chiefs.
- [09:31]
Marshall Spivak
And those are sailors not just in New Jersey, but all around that country. They're all in New Jersey. Okay.
- [09:37]
Commander Skip Leeson
But there was a call nationwide. I mean after the first two flights which were basically set up for our units, they still called, but then they started calling them nationwide. Captain Milligan, Richard Milligan, who was the CEO of the, of the New Jersey over there, loved it. They had, they, they thought it was terrific. First people they sent back were the ones who had children after they left. And that told, tells you what kind of a leader you was.
- [10:02]
Marshall Spivak
Absolutely.
- [10:02]
Commander Skip Leeson
And then after a while it got to be a lottery. But when they were over there, they had the Bob Hope show. I Missed that, but I was over there for the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders.
- [10:12]
Marshall Spivak
There you go.
- [10:13]
Commander Skip Leeson
That was a good show.
- [10:16]
Marshall Spivak
And how long was your reserve crew on the ship during that time? 27 days. So what was the out of that 27 days then? How long was an average of relief for somebody, one of the active sailors?
- [10:35]
Commander Skip Leeson
Relief was a 30 day relief.
- [10:36]
Marshall Spivak
30 day relief.
- [10:37]
Commander Skip Leeson
Okay. What happened was Navy was flying DC9s all over the place. So we just said flyers are. And Melligan said, fine, Captain Melligan said, bring him over. We'll bring him over. And our flight, we Left Norfolk, refueled St. John's Newfoundland, refueled, Vaja's Azores, refueled, Road to Spain, refueled Saganella, Italy. And then we flew into Ben Gurion International in Tel Aviv. And the ship had a bus, a couple of buses there waiting to bus us up to Haifa. And they were at anchor just outside the quay wall in Haifa. And that's when we got to get on the ship. And then from there we just headed back up to Lebanon. But in the meantime, while we were coming on board, the DC9s were sitting down at Tel Aviv and that's when they sent the crews back. When we left, we left through Larnaca, Cyprus. They, they helloed us from the ship over to Larnaca.
- [11:31]
Marshall Spivak
Well, what was it like arranging, I mean, just logistically of getting 700 sailors, some of them in New Jersey, but a lot of them, as you noted, around the country. What was that like log getting everybody over there? You just mentioned all the stops that, that it took to get, to get your, your one crew really flight over there. But how would the effort logistically to get 700 guys from all over the US all the way over to Lebanon?
- [11:58]
Commander Skip Leeson
There were so many people that volunteered, they had to turn them down.
- [12:01]
Marshall Spivak
Well, everyone wanted to be part of the battleship.
- [12:05]
Commander Skip Leeson
In fact, when we were on the ship, we had to locate four of the reservists because they didn't want to go home. So we had, we had to when we flew back to Larnaca. But it was Chief of Naval Reserve did a phenomenal job. The PAO on the ship at that time was Lieutenant Commander Eric Wilenbach, who did a phenomenal job accepting all these people on board, the division officers, they were ready to put our guys to work. Fortunately, most of them were well trained and worked in where they should. They had some problems with communications and stuff like that. So we had IT men come on board, guys that actually worked for the telephone companies that came on board. And fixed everything. I mean, it was. The same thing happened when we were on the Arkansas. The Arkansas lost all interior communications. We had a guy who was a repairman for the telephone company. He came and fixed the whole thing. So that's what reserves, they use their private jobs on the ship and they help and they teach and they learn.
- [13:03]
Marshall Spivak
Over there for, you know, 27 days, 30 days. What was the mood like when you returned?
- [13:10]
Commander Skip Leeson
We didn't want to go back. I mean, we're ready now, Marshall. I'm ready to fill this up with oil missiles and, you know, bullets on board, and I'm ready to go again. But it was, it was a thrill of having been able to do it. And we all did that too. I mean, we, we had a couple of big reunions after that. It was interesting because I had with me and I don't even know if he's still around, but Fred Jeffries, who was the byline reporter for the Trentonian, and he came with us, he did a lot of, a lot of stuff over there with the pao, writing up what we did and where and everything that we did. In fact, he's the one that arranged for me to get letters appreciation from the legislation of the state of New Jersey so I could give them to Cap Milligan and show them to him. And then when I got back, Milligan gave me something to give back to Governor Kane. So we went and Fred arranged that whole thing too, to go in and present something to Governor McCain from the battleship New Jersey.
- [14:11]
Marshall Spivak
What was the. What was the. I'm sure that obviously the mood on board with the big relief effort coming, I'm sure morale was, was high at the time on board, knowing that so many people were going to be able to go home to their families. But it was also an interesting time on board. It was slightly after the barracks bombing in Beirut. And of course, as we've talked about many times on, on this podcast, we lost a chief in that. Etc. Michael Georginski was killed in the Beirut barracks bombing. And then many of the crew of this ship went landside to help with the, the cleanup efforts.
- [14:45]
Commander Skip Leeson
And mostly the Marines.
- [14:47]
Marshall Spivak
The mardet. Yeah. And so when you arrive, when you're, when your crew arrive, what was the mood on board?
- [14:55]
Commander Skip Leeson
When we arrived, they had pulled the Marines off out of Lebanon. Right next to us was, I think it was an lph, but it was the USS Trenton. What I wanted to do was get the helicopter up in the air, get us together and have it say Trenton, New Jersey. But the CEO of the Trenton Senior Milligan. And he just said, nope, we're going home. And that was it. Anyway, the board, my job was working with the executive officer, with the JAG lawyer on board, helping with a lot of the edicts that were coming out and trained the men, the reservists, so when we got back we would have all the training we needed to come back on board. Everybody was so into it. In working on the battleship New Jersey, we had a, I had a gunner's mate in my reserve union and he was assigned to the left barrel in turret one. And I think that was Repeat Pete, Repeat. Those were the three. He just, he loved it. He absolutely loved it. And when we got back, he had a whole thing on how to shoot the 16 inch guns. So they, they all got into it.
- [16:02]
Marshall Spivak
And as we know, the, the, the ship fired on four separate occasions, 16 inch rounds into Lebanon. Was your crew, was the relief crew on board for any of those?
- [16:15]
Commander Skip Leeson
We got on board two days after the fire. The 268 rounds, or however many it was. What had happened was the admiral in charge of the task force sent a plane out to take pictures. Photoshops, well, got shot down. And I don't know whether anybody remembers, but Reverend Jesse Jackson actually went over to help free the pilot. Cap Mel again was rather upset. We could have done that from here. So in February, the admiral says, okay, I'm going to call your bluff. These are your 14 targets. We demolished them off every single one of them. And one of them was actually a general, a Syrian general's headquarters, who was in charge of the Syrian missile sites and everything else in Lebanon. We demolished everything.
- [17:02]
Marshall Spivak
You've had the rare distinction of being one of the few to serve on this ship, both in uniform and now as a part of our museum team. How does it feel to keep serving the ship now in a different role?
- [17:15]
Commander Skip Leeson
I was managing or actually leading a salesforce nationwide when the ship came in and opened up right after 9, 11. And the kids looked at me and said, dad, it means so much to you. Why don't you go back? So they threw a surprise party for me for my 60th birthday here in the wardrobe, and that started it. Tom Jaskill, who was in charge of the overnight encampment program at the time, came up, convinced me I should be part of the encampment program, so I did. So after a while, the kids start saying, dad, you're spending too much time on the ship. So I, I got my wife a dog. And that helped a little bit. But no it, it just. This is, this is my ship. When I was here addressing the submarine crew and a lot of the 80 sailors were on board, some of them remembered it. Some, some of them had gotten their flights home because of us. Others say, well, it's about time somebody said we, we demolished everything we shot at because everybody was complaining and all of that. I would. This is amazing. It's a battleship. It's the most decorated battleship in the history of the United States Navy. And it's. I am so proud of it as a ship. And I thank you for keeping that memory as a ship, as a battleship, even though we're a museum, but we try to keep. We are a ship.
- [18:42]
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- [19:12]
Marshall Spivak
You mentioned partying the wardroom and I wanted to go back to your time on board for a second and say, what was the mood like in the wardroom with people coming on, people coming off, and what was the crew like? What was the camaraderie like when you are moving that many people in and out very quickly?
- [19:36]
Commander Skip Leeson
It went very. I mean, Captain Milligan was the best leader I have ever worked under. As I said, the next. When I came on board, I was the third senior surface warfare officer on board. That's it. And surface warfare officer means eligible for command. And so I was. Since I was part of the temporary crew, I. I was joking with the major of the Marine of Mardette and I just said, you better keep an eye on those two because you don't want me running this thing. And he goes, yes, sir. Next one in line was Craig Covington. He was the ops boss and he actually wound up as exo, I think one of the ships over in Desert Storm. But it was fine. I mean, I was treated as I should have been. There was another fellow coming on board here, Captain Joe Asolino. Well, I'm sure you've heard that name a few times. And he was part of, part of the group actually bringing in New Jersey back to become a museum. So. But he was on board the ship for a while too. And it was just, it was a Navy ship and it was run like a Navy ship and it was just. Everybody was great. Never had a problem with any of them. I mean, I'd been walking down through the, you know, talking to Chang, the chief engineer and talking to some of the people down there about, well, how'd you like your liberty in Cairo or Alexandria? And they said, oh, it was terrific and all of that. We got along well.
- [21:01]
Marshall Spivak
Everyone moved in the same direction, which is always great to hear. As a tour guide and as a ship educator, do you have any stories from your career or from the ship's history that sort of you think you found in your. Your time as a museum person? That sort of resonates most with. Most with visitors.
- [21:20]
Commander Skip Leeson
I try to keep it the tour on the level of the people I am touring around. That's number one. Number two, since I do most of it on the academic programs, it's for the kids. And sometimes the parents can't even follow you when you get down to the level of the kids. But it's for the children. I mean, I love going down through Turk 2 and showing them now that the one hoist is working, I mean, I'll just, I'll look at one of the kids and I'll just say, listen, a couple of weeks ago, a couple of kids were playing around and we lost one up there. Somebody want to go looking for them and all the parents. You know, you have to add humor. You have to add it to keep. And with the little kids, you got to keep moving once you stop your day. And then going into the computer room, which is my favorite because that's what I did on a destroyer mark. The mark one able fire control system for the 5 inch 38 off of Vietnam. That was my job.
- [22:14]
Marshall Spivak
You mentioned overnight encampment program. What's it like seeing kids sleeping in the same bunks where some of your sailors slept? It's a chow line. Where your sailors went through the chow line.
- [22:23]
Commander Skip Leeson
Amazing. It's an experience for these kids that they will never ever see again. And that's why we love people. We keep coming back returns. One time a while back, there was a group from Delaware that came on board and we're standing on the fan tail and I'm just saying, hey, yeah, I rode alongside this on the destroyer. And one guy yells from the back, one of the fathers, but what destroyer was it? And I said, it was the buck. And he goes, my father sailed on that. I said, what's your last name? And he goes, arlette. I said, steve Arlette was our communications officer. It was Rob Arlette had his son J, who went through the academy and Everything else. But it was Rob Arlette who was outboard. We've been friends ever since, but I sailed with his father on the box. So, I mean, I was down in Florida last. Last winter, and I'm walking and I'm getting off a bus at Disney, and one guy looks at me, says, skip. I go, yeah, we were on the ship. I mean, it's just, what a feeling of pride to be able to do it. And for all of us who do it, getting those kids on board is absolutely phenomenal.
- [23:32]
Marshall Spivak
When you look back at your decades of service, when you look back at your time in the Navy, what makes you the most proud?
- [23:44]
Commander Skip Leeson
That I did it. I can't say anything more than that, that I did it. I mean, I did a few things. I helped work with our blue gold officer to get guys, people, both men and women, into the Naval Academy. Being on board here, just the fact that I did it and what makes me most proud is that my wife went along with it. She was. She wasn't here for my active duty, but she was on board from my reserves. Does she want to come sleep over on a battleship?
- [24:12]
Marshall Spivak
No, I wouldn't think so.
- [24:15]
Commander Skip Leeson
Machinery oil? Yeah. Isn't that free?
- [24:17]
Marshall Spivak
My wife tells me that when I come home, I smell like the battleship. Now, I'm not exactly sure what that smells like, but apparently it is a smell.
- [24:25]
Commander Skip Leeson
I even said, listen, what I could do is I could come out with some aftershave that smells like machinery oil.
- [24:33]
Marshall Spivak
Might be a hit. You work a lot, as we talked about, with young people here who are visiting the ship. And so for those who you've had the pleasure of talking to or that might be listening to this, who are considering service in the military or more specifically, in the Navy. Any. Any advice for. For those types of people working with.
- [24:57]
Commander Skip Leeson
Youth groups in church. I don't want to do. I don't know what I want to do. I don't want to go to college. And I said, what would you like to do? One guy said, you know, I wanted. I want to do this. And I said, do you realize the best training you can get is in the military to it? I said, if you want to sell the ocean blue, join the Navy. If you want to sit in Cape May and watch the bikinis running around, join the Coast Guard. If you want a nice hotel room, join the Air Force. Or if you really want to be a soldier, I said, each one has their own separate training program which will train you for life, and it'll give you the discipline that's What I needed more than anything. But I'll join the Navy after coming out of. I needed the discipline and I got it. It's amazing how easily you can transfer over. Yes, I have helped people get into the Naval Academy. Very close friend of my daughter's in high school. He, he joined the Navy. He became a fire control technician for seawards. Then he decided, yeah, I want to go to Penn State nrotc. So I wrote a letter for him, and next thing I know is he's going. Davy's paying for him to go to Penn State nrotc. I just said he would be a welcome to any wardrobe. And next thing is he's flying helicopters, special op helicopters over in the Far East. He finally got out and now he's flying helicopters for, I guess, EMTs and the Poconos, private company that they're flinging helicopters for. Thanks. You know, that. That makes me proud to think that I could be able to. About doing something like that or, or just helping some of the people, some of my sonarmen back in, back in Vietnam, one of the main reasons why I decided I was going to get in the Navy, even though I was draft deferred was I don't want to get drafted. You know, I had college graduate engineers as sonoman because they didn't want to get drafted. They signed up with the Navy to become so, and they were excellent. Boy, could they do. Anyway, that's, that's.
- [27:18]
Marshall Spivak
You mentioned earlier, the Marine Corps and the mardet who went ashore in Lebanon. What was, what was the relationship between the mardet and ship's company at your. Your time on board?
- [27:30]
Commander Skip Leeson
I was during the ship one day and I walked up to the missile decks, the Tomahawks, and there's a dead guy up there with his.45. Sir, you're not allowed up here. And I said, okay. If in fact there was some type thing going on that they had to run down the passage, get out of there, they knock you over. But they had something they had to do. Lunchtime. Five laps around the main deck between turret one and turret three is a mile. They'd be out running every lunchtime. Now, it was funny because they pulled out of Lebanon and they all went into Haifa, Israel. And by going into Haifa, I'm looking there at the major. We were sitting there having lunch together, and I said, aren't you worried about them? He says, no, I'm not worried at all because tomorrow morning we're having a full inspection. These guys were standing there. I thought half of them were going to fall over. I'm so glad they're on our side. But no, there was no problem. I got a hold of who was the executive officer of the ship at the time and I said, can I go up on the. He said, I'll walk you out there. So you are.
- [28:42]
Marshall Spivak
As you know, we are going to be celebrating this October, the 50th birthday of the Navy, of course, in November as well. 250th anniversary of the Marine Corps. As you look back on the history of the Navy and you look forward to the next 250 years, what do you think the future of the Navy really looks like?
- [29:03]
Commander Skip Leeson
I had an opportunity one time to tour a few of the Arleigh Burke destroyers when they came in here. And also right after I got back from Beirut, John Baker had a friend of his who flew the 141s out of McGuire Air Force Base and he was willing to fly us down to Biloxi, Mississippi, Pascagola, where the Iowa was coming. He flew us down from weekend away as long as he could get on the ship and get it toward the ship. So I met, and I don't know whether you've met Necao or not, but he was the CEO of the ship at the time and he's part of the board for the Iowa now on the west coast. And so we went down there and flying down and everything else, it's just. So we did. We did that for a weekend and came back. Walt didn't come with us that weekend. I don't know why, but a year later, Walt was with us on the ship 150 years. We were right next to where they were building the Ticonderoga cruisers at that in Basketball of Mississippi. And we were watching everything up to the. I mean, it was almost like a, you know, just a line coming down. And then we saw the Vincennes, which was the first deck launch missile for the cruisers. So we got a tour of that. We walked around on that for a little bit. Where it is now, it's all push button to me. I'd rather go back to where I was on an old World War II destroyer. Compared to what they do more especially with the Aegis fire control system is phenomenal. It's up in Moorestown. Anybody who rides up that Route 295, I call it the ship of the desert because you look over there used to be rca. They were the ones that started. And since we were dribly in Trenton, we used to go down there for tours for the reserve Unit, we take a monitor of the Ages, Spy 1 Alpha Galax up to spy for golf or something like that. But I mean when they can, when they can target 270 t at once and now they have sonar tied into it. So now they have everything in their combat information center to where the sonar everything is there. When we were over in Beirut, they were having a very hard time with the airplane. And across the horizon coming was the Ticonderoga, the first Aegis fire control ship. She had the air picture within 30 minutes. And she could tell you what was friendly, what was not friendly, what was unknown, if it was unknown, a plane would go up and find out what it was. But she, when that happened, Captain Milligan, just sitting where you are now at the captain's seat. But the captain would just go hanker because we had no idea what would be coming after us. Right.
- [31:51]
Marshall Spivak
Certainly. I've started doing a little bit of a round robin question and answer with a few people and I like to do the same now. So I'm going to ask you a few questions and I just want you to give simply the first thing that comes to the top of your head.
- [32:04]
Commander Skip Leeson
Remember, I'm the sailor. Yeah.
- [32:07]
Marshall Spivak
Outside of the battleship, your favorite navy.
- [32:10]
Commander Skip Leeson
Ship of all time, the OSS Buck, the D761.
- [32:14]
Marshall Spivak
Thought you might say that. And I think I know the answer to your, your next, this next question. Favorite captain of the battleship?
- [32:20]
Commander Skip Leeson
No. Although I bet fy. But as I said, FY was, he was good, don't get me wrong. I mean he's the one that brought the ship into commission and everything else, but Captain Melligan was the one who knew it. He took over.
- [32:34]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, it's 20, 25. A young 22 year old, just commissioned as an ensign. You can serve anywhere you want on any ship you want. What type of ship, what class of ship or any specific ship that you would want to serve on in today's Navy.
- [32:50]
Commander Skip Leeson
Arleigh Burke the Strong. That's the Navy, to be honest, compared to what they have, you know, what we had as destroyers, we were expendable. I mean if anybody were to go after the New Jersey and Vietnam, we were the one supposed to get in the way. We were the one that was supposed to get the Pueblo. They're expendable. The Arleigh Burke destroyer right now has as far as missiles go, has more firepower than the New Jersey. We don't use the 16 inch guns anymore. So what do they have for shore bombardment? They got an automatic 5 inch gun, 5 inch 54s which fire faster than a twin mount here. Of the 5 inch 38s, they still have the 21 inch torpedo tubes. They have sonar. I couldn't tell you if there was a. We're sailing around the west, the eastern Mediterranean. We didn't tell you if there was a submarine out, but we had a couple of destroyers with us that had the sonar capabilities of it. Yeah, no, with me, an Arleigh Burke destroyer. And my. One of my bucket list is to go up to Bath, Maine and watch them being built.
- [33:48]
Marshall Spivak
Ryan and Libby did that last year and said it was an incredible experience. I have not been there myself, although I did get a tour of the USS John Basilone, which I served on the commissioning committee for last November up in New York City. And we were able to take a quick tour of the Basilone, which was interesting. An incredible ship, you're right. The Arlberg destroyer. And this was the newest one, a class 4A white 4A, I should say, really, really beautiful piece of machinery.
- [34:21]
Commander Skip Leeson
As a segue. I used to play golf with Harlem Spaz among John's brother.
- [34:26]
Marshall Spivak
Really? Is that right from up just outside.
- [34:28]
Commander Skip Leeson
Of New York and I. And I know sister. Yeah, of course, the Basilone Bridge and all of that. Yeah, it's the one. He got his medal of Honor in Guadalcanaga, came home, said, I want to go back. He was killed in Ewa.
- [34:44]
Marshall Spivak
Yeah, I want to be with my boys. I think that was his, his, his famous phrase. And then one, of course received the Navy Cross for his, for his time.
- [34:54]
Commander Skip Leeson
When I heard Carlos, I don't think he. When they heard that there was going to be John Basilow, Arleigh Burke, they.
- [34:59]
Marshall Spivak
That culminated as I can imagine, if you could stand one more watch anywhere on the New Jersey, if the ship was still on commission, it would be.
- [35:09]
Commander Skip Leeson
On the bridge over by the Gaza Str. Then they're done there.
- [35:12]
Marshall Spivak
If you could describe the battleship New Jersey in just one word, what would it be?
- [35:17]
Commander Skip Leeson
Amazing.
- [35:17]
Marshall Spivak
Good answer. Now, of course, this is the WetU Podcast. As you know, we eat this stuff up for something like that. I ask every guest if there's any particular wetsuit moments that really stand out from either their time on board here or just your time in the Navy.
- [35:34]
Commander Skip Leeson
Well, I love being up that goes with that tonight, as does Ken. The overnight encampment program we think has been very successful and we love doing it. It's teaching the kids what it's all about. I mean, I have a grandson that's really into World War II and he's been on board overnight. He got to shoot the salute in Canada and everything. His favorite spot to go was New Orleans, World War II Museum. And I've been. And so when I started talking about World War II things on the ship, like the computers, he really got into it. Kids just don't, you know, playing, you know, some of the games on their computers are anything like walking around this, teaching them the history. And you can't move forward unless you know the history of the past.
- [36:22]
Marshall Spivak
Absolutely. Finally, my last question, Skip, is we talked a lot about education. We talked a lot about the next generation. Some of your time here on board, what does home mean to you when you step aboard Battleship New Jersey today?
- [36:36]
Commander Skip Leeson
When I step aboard it, I salute the flag. As an officer, I have permission to come aboard. I use the officer's brow, not the enlisted brow in the back. Overall, I just love coming up with you. It brings back so many good memories. Obviously, you know, being in the military as long as I have 25 years, you know, two and a half years on active duty and 22 and a half in reserves, there were some times where I questioned if I wanted to.
- [37:04]
Marshall Spivak
Keep going, but it seems only natural.
- [37:08]
Commander Skip Leeson
I couldn't give it up. But when I got selected to be the CEO of the reserve unit of the battleship, I just said, where do you go from here? And that's why I was with US Forces Caribbean for a while. And who did I report to, But Captain Richard Milligan's brother, General Robert Milligan from the Marines. So I showed him a picture and he looked at me and says, who's that guy with you? But he was okay. He was okay. He was a West Point graduate or not West Point again, Academy graduate, also two years ahead of Richard. So I got that. I, I am think the only one ever in the world to have fitness reports signed by the brothers.
- [37:46]
Marshall Spivak
I, I didn't even know that he had a brother who was a Marine general, so I'm gonna have to look that up.
- [37:52]
Commander Skip Leeson
Yeah, he. He made three stars.
- [37:54]
Marshall Spivak
Oh, wow.
- [37:55]
Commander Skip Leeson
Made comment on. But he really wasn't too political either.
- [37:58]
Marshall Spivak
Got it. Got it. Well, Skip ble, thank you for sharing your story with us today. From standing watch off Vietnam to leading the largest peacetime crew relief in Navy history, to continuing your service here on board as an educator and as a guide for our youth, your legacy is deeply woven into the story of this battleship. It's always a pleasure to have you on board back where you belong here on New Jersey. And thank you to our listeners for joining us today on this episode of wetsu. If you'd like to experience this history firsthand as we talked about, plan your visit@battleshipnewjersey.org when you climb aboard, take a tour, spend the night in the bunks with somebody like Skip.
- [38:38]
Commander Skip Leeson
I won't be in the.
- [38:40]
Marshall Spivak
We'll be back in your state.
- [38:41]
Commander Skip Leeson
I won't be in my state.
- [38:43]
Marshall Spivak
So until next time, my name is Marshall Spivak. Thank you for listening to wetsu, and we'll see you next time.
- [38:50]
Commander Skip Leeson
Great. Thank you.
- [38:51]
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