1,000 Days of War In Ukraine

Summary

Podcast Summary: What A Day – Episode: 1,000 Days of War In Ukraine

Podcast Information:

• Title: What A Day
• Host: Jane Coston
• Producer: Crooked Media
• Description: A no-nonsense morning guide to the most important stories shaping today and the emerging trends for tomorrow, delivered in just 20 minutes.
• Episode: 1,000 Days of War In Ukraine
• Release Date: November 20, 2024

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1. Milestone of 1,000 Days of War in Ukraine

Overview: The episode marks the 1,000-day anniversary since Russia initiated its invasion of Ukraine, highlighting the profound impact on Europe and the world.

Key Points:

• Human Cost: Hundreds of thousands have lost their lives, and over 6 million Ukrainians are refugees.
• Recent Escalation: Ukraine has launched US-made ATACMs (Army Tactical Missile Systems) into Russia for the first time, following President Joe Biden’s approval earlier in the week—a significant policy shift as Biden prepares to leave office.
• Russian Response: President Vladimir Putin has introduced a new nuclear doctrine, lowering the threshold for nuclear weapon use, escalating global tensions.
• Ukrainian Leadership: President Volodymyr Zelensky has urged European leaders to persist in supporting Ukraine despite the lack of confirmation regarding the missile strikes.

Notable Quotes:

• Jane Coston [00:54]: "The thousand day milestone was marked by another major escalation of violence."
• Norm Eisen [01:32]: "Vladimir Putin is focused on winning this war. He will not stop on his own."

2. Trump's Reelection and European Concerns

Interviewee: McKay Coppins, Senior Staff Writer at The Atlantic

Key Points:

• European Leaders' Reactions: Publicly, European officials express calm and a desire for transatlantic cooperation. Privately, there is significant concern about the implications of a second Trump presidency.
• Short-Term Strategies: European leaders are considering ways to flatter President Trump, such as hosting grand state visits, to secure continued support for Ukraine and NATO. However, domestic political pressures, including potential anti-Trump protests, pose challenges.
• Impact on European Politics: Trump's reelection is expected to bolster right-wing populist movements across Europe, as leaders see his victory as a validation of their own agendas.
• NATO's Future: A weakened US commitment under Trump could lead to NATO's decline, emboldening Putin to challenge the alliance further.

Notable Quotes:

• McKay Coppins [03:38]: "The stakes for Europe are existential."
• McKay Coppins [05:25]: "Trump getting reelected is going to be galvanizing to these far right movements and parties."

3. Legislative Actions Against Transgender Individuals

Overview: South Carolina Representative Nancy Mace introduces a resolution aimed at banning transgender women from using female bathrooms, a direct response to the election of Sarah McBride, the first openly transgender person elected to U.S. Congress.

Key Points:

• Resolution Purpose: Although the legislation doesn't explicitly mention McBride, it is widely perceived as targeting her.
• Mace’s Position: Nancy Mace, initially a Trump supporter, has shifted to more conservative stances aligning with her district's political shift.
• McBride’s Response: She denounces the resolution as a "blatant attempt from far right wing extremists to distract from the fact that they have no real solutions."

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah McBride [16:29]: "This is a blatant attempt from far right wing extremists to distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to what Americans are facing."
• Nancy Mace [15:25]: "I have to be filing more bills."

4. Dr. Mehmet Oz’s Nomination to CMS

Overview: Former TV personality Dr. Mehmet Oz is nominated by President Donald Trump to lead the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS).

Key Points:

• Criticism of Nomination: Jane Coston criticizes the appointment, highlighting Oz's background and misinformation during the COVID-19 pandemic.
• Trump’s Endorsement: President Trump lauds Oz as potentially the most qualified to "make America healthy again," which Coston sarcastically counters.

Notable Quotes:

• Jane Coston [16:54]: "Dr. Oz, the daytime talk show host, failed Pennsylvania Senate candidate, purveyor of COVID misinformation, lover of raspberry ketones."
• Trump’s Statement [17:14]: "There may be no physician more qualified and capable than Dr. Oz to make America healthy again."

5. Trump’s Efforts to Block Biden’s Judicial Appointments

Overview: Donald Trump urges Senate Republicans to block President Biden’s judicial nominees, claiming Democrats aim to "stack the courts with radical left judges."

Key Points:

• Current Status: As of November 8, 2024, President Biden has nominated 261 federal judges, with 216 confirmed and 45 vacancies remaining.
• Republican Strategy: Trump advises Republicans to prevent further confirmations before his departure, though Democrats controlling the Senate limit their ability to fully block nominations.
• Implications: The move reflects ongoing partisan battles over the federal judiciary and the potential long-term impact on American law.

Notable Quotes:

• Trump [17:19]: "Democrats are trying to stack the courts with radical left judges on their way out the door."

6. White House Christmas Tree and North Carolina’s Recovery

Overview: The White House selected a Christmas tree from North Carolina's Avery County, a region severely impacted by Hurricane Helene in September.

Key Points:

• Local Impact: The hurricane and subsequent mudslides devastated local farms, with significant loss of Christmas trees—5,000 lost at the Cartner family farm and 60,000 at a nearby farm.
• Symbolism: The selected tree represents resilience and hope, as expressed by the Cartner family and local officials.
• Recovery Efforts: Some farmers will have to rebuild their lands entirely, highlighting the ongoing struggle in the region.

Notable Quotes:

• Norm Eisen [19:11]: "They would want this tree to represent the faith and hope and love and joy and family and generosity."

7. Donald Trump’s Legal Battles and Judicial Proceedings

Overview: The episode delves into the multiple legal challenges facing Donald Trump, including his convictions and ongoing investigations.

Key Points:

• Legal Cases:
  • Hush Money Payment Conviction: Trump was convicted for making hush money payments to an adult film actress.
  • Election Interference in Georgia: Indicted for efforts to find votes to overturn the 2020 election results.
  • Classified Documents Case: Charged with possessing over 100 classified documents at Mar-a-Lago; however, the Supreme Court limited prosecution to non-official acts.
• Recent Developments: Prosecutors in the hush money case have requested a delay in sentencing due to Trump’s 2024 presidential victory.
• Expert Insight:
  • Norm Eisen: Emphasizes the importance of upholding the verdicts despite Trump's political ascent, highlighting the role of the judiciary in maintaining accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Norm Eisen [21:31]: "A jury of regular Americans... found him guilty 34 counts of election interference..."
• Norm Eisen [25:23]: "We have to protect that verdict."

Conclusion

The episode of What A Day provides a comprehensive analysis of the significant milestones and ongoing challenges in global politics, particularly focusing on the war in Ukraine, the implications of Donald Trump's reelection for European allies and NATO, legislative actions concerning transgender rights, and the multitude of legal battles surrounding Trump. Through insightful interviews with experts like McKay Coppins and Norm Eisen, the podcast offers listeners a nuanced understanding of the complex political landscape as it stands on the 1,000-day mark of the Ukraine conflict.

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Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Wednesday, November 20th. I'm Jane Coston and this is Water Day, the show where we're feeling a little sick thinking about two federal health agencies run by RFK Jr. And Dr. Oz. Which department will Dr. Phil get? Is our government secretly being run by Oprah? Is Judge Judy about to get a life changing call? On today's show, a South Carolina congresswoman introduces a resolution targeting a freshman member. And Trump is truthing marching orders to Senate Republicans. Let's get into it. Tuesday marked 1,000 days since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine. The start of the war plunged the European continent into its largest and deadliest conflict since World War II. And since then, hundreds of thousands of people have died and more than 6 million Ukrainians are living as refugees abroad. The thousand day milestone was marked by another major escalation of violence. And Tuesday, Ukraine launched US made long range missiles known as ATACMs into Russia for the first time. That's after President Joe Biden gave Ukraine the green light to use the missiles earlier this week, a major policy reversal. Just as he prepares to leave office. In response to Ukraine's attack, Russian President Vladimir Putin issued a new nuclear doctrine lowering the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons, which is very, very bad. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky didn't confirm or deny shooting the atacms deep into Russia. But during a video speech at the European Parliament Tuesday, he urged European leaders to keep up the fight against Russia.

[Norm Eisen]

While some European leaders think about, you know, some elections or something like this at Ukraine's expanse, Putin is focused on winning this war. He will not stop on his own. The more time he has, the worse the conditions become.

[Jane Coston]

And unlike those European leaders, Putin doesn't have to worry about elections. To be clear, our European allies are scared about what President Elect Donald Trump's win means for the future of the war in Ukraine, broader Russian aggression and NATO's existence. McKay Coppins is a senior staff writer at the Atlantic. We had him on the show back in June for a big piece he wrote about how Europe was worried about the potential for a second Trump presidency. We invited him back to talk about how our allies abroad are now preparing for Trump's return to the White House. McKay, welcome back to what a day.

[McKay Coppins]

Thanks for having me, Jane.

[Jane Coston]

So it happened. Trump won reelection. What's been the reaction from European leaders and diplomats, both publicly and privately?

[McKay Coppins]

You know, it's interesting. The reaction is different whether they're on the record or off the record. I spoke to one European official shortly after Trump won and Asked him, you know, what do you make of this? And his initial answer was, you know, on the record, we're totally calm. We look forward to fostering transatlantic cooperation with our new partners at Washington. Da, da, da, da, da. All the kind of diplomatic speak. And then he said, can I talk on background? And I said, sure. And he said, obviously, a million things could go wrong. And I think that kind of captures the general mood in Europe. I mean, I was reporting there earlier this year. I talked to a lot of elected leaders, NATO officials, diplomats, and all of them at the time were obsessively following the presidential election. And all of them basically said the stakes for Europe are existential. So, you know, it's no surprise that there's a certain amount of dread from European leaders, but at the same time, they realize that there's nothing they can really do about it at this point other than try to cozy up to him and his allies, try to flatter him and hopefully get him on their side.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah, we had you on to talk about that earlier piece. So how are European leaders planning to deal with this? What's the short term approach to trying to mitigate the potential damage in the short term?

[McKay Coppins]

The discussions have revolved a lot around how do we flatter Trump. Right? Like, they recognize this guy as a man who is very susceptible to flattery, to obsequiousness. One idea that's being circulated among European officials is to plan a big state visit in some European capital, in France or Italy, Spain, have him come, roll out the red carpet, really try to make him feel loved. And their thought is that between that and working various back channels to people like Marco Rubio, who most of the people I spoke to were pretty relieved to see as the choice for a State Department, they think between those two things, maybe they can kind of convince him to continue to fund the war in Ukraine, to continue to support allies in NATO. But they also recognize that they're facing political headwinds domestically because people in Europe, the average voter in Europe, hates Donald Trump, right? They think he's kind of like a caricature of America. There represents all the worst things about America. And, you know, Wolfgang Ischinger, who's a veteran German diplomat, said to me, you know, I would be worried about planning one of these big state visits in a European capital because there could be really big, ugly, potentially violent anti Trump protests. And if Trump sees that, it could end up backfiring.

[Jane Coston]

But Europe's been dealing with its own explosion of right wing populism or whatever it is. Trumpism is what does Trump's win mean for those movements in countries like France and Italy and the United Kingdom, where we keep seeing people who keep sounding like Trump, I think even like in the Netherlands, for example.

[McKay Coppins]

Well, that's the interesting thing. Most people in Europe don't see Trump as this, like, black swan event. Like a lot of Americans kind of treated him, that it was this total fluke and accident of history that he won in 2020, he lost, and that kind of set things back to normal in Europe. The brand of politics that he represents, this kind of right wing populism merged with nationalism, merged with kind of anti immigrant attitudes, xenophobia, that stuff has been upending European politics most of this century. Right. It's how you got Brexit in the uk it's how you got Marine Le Pen as a major figure in France. I spoke to one political scientist in Italy who's been an advisor to the eu, and she said that Trump's win is going to be galvanizing to these far right movements and parties. Right? Like these. These people are going to see Trump getting reelected as a huge bump in momentum to their cause. And as this one source put it, she said, you know, how can you say that when you see someone like Trump win in the heart of liberal democracy America? How can you then turn and make the argument and say, oh, but we can't do it in Europe with Trump.

[Jane Coston]

Running the government for the next four years at least. What are the immediate threats our European allies see coming down the pipeline?

[McKay Coppins]

The very first thing everybody's going to be watching is what he does in Ukraine. Right? Trump has said that he could end the war in Ukraine on day one.

[Jane Coston]

Of course he could. Of course he could.

[McKay Coppins]

Well, you know, I spoke to somebody in Ukraine actually, and she kind of said it's possible that what he means by that is he makes some major territorial concession to Russia and basically tells Ukraine an NATO we're going to cut off all funding and support for the war unless you take this deal. Right. So it's possible. And what a lot of Europeans fear is that ending the war means basically letting Vladimir Putin win in the medium term. There are questions about NATO. Right. It's funny, I feel like sometimes when I talk about NATO on shows like this or just in general, people's eyes kind of glaze over because it is kind of this, like wonky, you know, Alphabet soup thing. But it really does matter. It's the most powerful military alliance.

[Jane Coston]

Not here, not on the.

[McKay Coppins]

And look, it matters a lot. Like this alliance has basically maintained peace on the European continent for 70 years at this point. The war in Ukraine has tested NATO because the fear is that if Vladimir Putin comes away from that experience feeling like he won, like it was worth it, the next front is going to be to challenge NATO. Putin has made it very clear that he doesn't want that alliance to exist anymore. And if he sees kind of a weakening of American will on this front, whether from Trump or from somebody else, he's probably going to try to exploit it. And the question is, does Donald Trump stay committed to this alliance? Does he keep America committed to it? Or does he throw up his hands and say, I'm not going to risk, you know, American blood and treasure for some village in Estonia that I've never heard of.

[Jane Coston]

What does NATO look like without the United States?

[McKay Coppins]

Well, you know, it's significantly weakened. Like the United States not only provides the entire so called nuclear umbrella under which Europe exists, basically America's nuclear arsenal is what deters Russia from ever using its nuclear arsenal in Europe. It also provides an enormous amount of funding, intelligence gathering capabilities, ballistic missile capabilities. 85,000 US troops are currently stationed in Europe, which is more than many European countries combined. And all of which is to say, you take America away from NATO, the alliance basically collapses. Now, that's not to say that there wouldn't be some different European alliance that comes into existence after that, but it would be much weaker and it would be much harder for Europe to deter Russian aggression without America as its partner.

[Jane Coston]

I have to ask about President Biden. Why do you think he is potentially escalating the war in Ukraine on his way out the door? Do you think he would be as aggressive if this was a Harris administration coming in?

[McKay Coppins]

It's a good question. And I don't know. I wonder if he basically sees a very short window before Trump takes office and potentially just withdraws US Support for the war in Ukraine. So he wants to give Ukraine whatever advantages they have right now while he can. You could also look at as kind of a, like, negotiating tactic, right? Like if Trump is determined to come in, deal with Putin and make some kind of concessions. If the long use of American long range missiles, for example, is on the table, Trump could offer to pull those back instead of, you know, making some other concession to Putin that he doesn't want to. It's, you know, at this point, it's hard to say exactly what the strategic thinking is other than the fact that Biden wants Ukraine to win this war. And so he's trying to use his last months in office to make that happen.

[Jane Coston]

We had you on a few months ago to talk about European fears of a second Trump presidency, and at the time we asked you who Europeans blamed for what they saw as the inevitability of a second Trump presidency, and you said it was kind of a mixed bag. Has that changed now, now that it's actually happened?

[McKay Coppins]

Well, you know, at the time, everybody I talked to in Europe was certain that Trump was going to win. And at the time, Joe Biden was the nominee and they all couldn't wrap their heads around why he was the nominee. Talking to Europeans now, the thing that they will say they kind of grumble about on background is that if Biden had just done the obvious thing that he needed to do two years ago, announce that he wasn't running and opened up the Democratic Party to field the best candidate, that there might have been a different result. I did speak to one person in Ukraine who said what happens in this country is going to be the responsibility of Joe Biden in the end. So she was pretty mad at Biden and I think that that sentiment is pretty widely shared at this point in Europe.

[Jane Coston]

McKay, thank you so much. You are always welcome to talk about NATO with me.

[McKay Coppins]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with McKay Coppins, senior staff writer at the Atlantic. We'll link to his piece about how Europe is preparing for a second Trump presidency in our show Notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a Day is brought to you by the Zero Emission Transportation Association Education Fund. The Zeta Education Fund wants Americans to know about the positive economic impact the EV and battery supply chain is having on our communities. Like how it's already created 240,000 jobs and attracted $177 billion of investment. More than a million EVs were sold in the US last year and there are currently over 200,000 public charging locations in the United States. Join forces with the Zeta Education Fund and help spread the facts about what a transition to EVs means for the future of America. Get on board@zeta zeta.org join what a day is brought to you by Sling Seems like things change every 20 minutes. It's hard to keep up. That's why you should watch Sling. They provide the best value for your essential news channels. With Sling, you get all of your favorite news channels at the best price Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, Hannity, Anderson Cooper, 360, the Rachel Maddow show, and more for just $40 a month. So yeah, with the election coverage and everything else happening, you can get news that will raise your blood pressure at prices that won't get the best price on news about what's going on in the world. Then say that's what's going on in the world. And it's not just news. Check this out. Sling has the live sports, news and entertainment channels you love and less of the ones you don't, so you save hundreds of dollars. Sling lets you choose and customize your channel lineup so you can choose the channels you actually like. Sling's cloud DVR lets you record your shows to watch in your schedule. There's no complex technology, no long term contracts, and no hidden rigmarole. I need to be able to watch football and I need to be able to watch football on my schedule. That's why I love Sling. Get rewarded for watching your favorite news channels. Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com now to learn more and get started. That's sling.com now. Sling.com now what a day is brought to you by Built Rewards Renters. Do you ever feel like you're just watching your money vanish into thin air? It's time to turn that rent game around and start earning some serious rewards. That's where Bilt Rewards comes in. Bilt is breaking ground as a neighborhood rewards program that hooks you up with points on your rent every month. Just pay your rent and watch the Bilt points roll in. Put your points towards a flight or hotel stay with 500 plus airlines and 700,000 plus hotels and properties. Pay rent hassle free through the Bilt Rewards app. Your rank game just got a major upgrade. Bilt Points have been consistently ranked the highest value point currency by the points guy and bank rate. Earn points by paying rent Right now when you go to joinbuilt.com wad that's J O I N B I L T.com wad make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you joinbilt.com wad to start earning points with your rent payments today. And now the news Head of lines Is this effort in response to Congresswoman McBride coming to Congress?

[McKay Coppins]

Yes and absolutely and then some.

[Jane Coston]

South Carolina Representative Nancy Mace introduced a resolution to ban transgender women from female bathrooms in the U.S. capitol on Monday. Why? Because two weeks ago, Delaware Democrat Sarah McBride became the first openly transgender person elected to U.S. congress. Mace was elected in 2020 and is the first woman to represent South Carolina in Congress. She worked on Trump's 2016 campaign, but distanced herself from Trump after the January 6 insurrection. She was viewed by some as a less MAGA politician, supporting both the Respect for Marriage act and talking about her opposition to abortion bans with no exceptions. But her district has moved to the right since 2020 and apparently so has she. Here she is speaking with another reporter, doubling down on her stance with your piece of legislation about banning women from using. My question to you is it doesn't go far enough, I'll be filing more bills. You have said that it was created.

[McKay Coppins]

In response to Congresswoman elect McGregor.

[Jane Coston]

Should legislation be created targeted at one specific person?

[McKay Coppins]

It doesn't mention anyone in the legislation, but I.

[Jane Coston]

But you've said it was aimed at her.

[McKay Coppins]

No, I have said it's a result of this.

[Jane Coston]

Sarah McBride responded to the resolution with a statement, quote, this is a blatant attempt from far right wing extremists to distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to what Americans are facing. I also have a statement for Nancy Mace. Go to hell. Donald Trump continues to roll out TV personality nominations for his administration. And this one you may recognize. Dr. Mehmet Oz was named Tuesday to run the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services. Yes, that Dr. Oz, the daytime talk show host, failed Pennsylvania Senate candidate, purveyor of COVID misinformation, lover of raspberry ketones, available for the low, low price of $21.68 and just a general quack. And the one who said this to Sean Hannity last week about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Who would be Dr. Oz's boss if they're both confirmed. I think President Trump is wise in.

[McKay Coppins]

The recommendation of RK Jr. I know him personally.

[Jane Coston]

I have for a while. I understand exactly what he's getting at. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services operates and oversees programs that provide health care coverage to almost half of Americans, including Obamacare. Trump said in a statement, quote, there may be no physician more qualified and capable than Dr. Oz to make America healthy again. Which isn't true because I'm pretty sure Dr. Seuss would be more qualified and capable. On Tuesday, Trump laid out the blueprint for Senate Republicans to block President Biden's judicial picks during the last few weeks of his presidency. In a post on Truth Social, he wrote, quote, the Democrats are trying to stack the courts with radical left judges on their way out the door. Republican senators need to show up and hold the line. No more judges confirmed before Inauguration Day. First of all, I wish they were stacking the courts. Biden has nominated 261 federal judges, according to a Nov. 8 White House press release. 216 of those have been confirmed by the Senate, and there are 45 vacancies still open, less than half as many as when Trump was inaugurated in 2017. Luckily, since the Democrats control the Senate for at least a few more weeks, the Republicans shouldn't be able to block the nominees entirely and can only slow them down, barring absences from Democratic senators. So don't get sick. Democratic senators stay well. The White House has selected this year's Christmas tree from North Carolina. The tree comes from a farm in Avery county, which was devastated by Hurricane Helene in September. The Cartner family has owned their family Christmas tree farm for decades and were chosen as the source for the White House's tree. Last year. Sam Cartner Jr. One of the owners of the farm, spoke to the Associated Press about what his parents would think of the honor. Here in the western North Carolina where we've experienced this horrific hurricane and flood.

[Norm Eisen]

They would want this tree to represent the faith and hope and love and.

[McKay Coppins]

Joy and family and generosity.

[Jane Coston]

During the storm, the Cartners lost at least 5,000 trees to a mudslide, while another Christmas tree farm nearby lost 60,000. Some farmers in the region will have to bulldoze their land and start from scratch. North Carolina was one of the hardest hit regions and Asheville just got drinkable tap water back after 53 days. If you want to support the relief efforts in North Carolina, we'll link you in our show notes. And that's the news. One more thing. As you might know, Donald Trump has spent a lot of the last few years in court. There are four criminal probes of the former and future president and all four are still pending. In May of this year, Trump was convicted on charges relating to hush money payments made to an adult film actress. He was indicted in 2023 on federal charges based on his efforts to interfere in the 2020 election. Remember the whole riot thing. Also in 2023, he was indicted in Georgia for his efforts to find more than 11,000 votes in an attempt to steal the election. And then there's the classified documents case where Trump was charged in 2023 by special counsel Jack Smith for having more than 100 classified documents at his home, Mar A Lagoon. But the Supreme Court ruled in July that Trump could only be prosecuted for non official acts, throwing all of the federal cases against him into total chaos. And on Tuesday, the Prosecutors in his hush money case asked for a delay in the proceedings, given that while Trump has been convicted, he's also won the 2024 presidential election. And, well, no one exactly knows what that means for a sentencing which was scheduled for November 26. I will not lie to you. While I have seen pretty much every episode of Law and order released before 2008, I did not actually go to law school. So I called up our good friend Norm Eisen. He served as special counsel to the House Judiciary Committee majority during the impeachment proceedings against Trump in 2019 and 2020. Norm, welcome back to what a Day.

[Norm Eisen]

Thank you, Jane. Glad to be back with you.

[Jane Coston]

So New York prosecutors told the judge in Trump's hush money case that the sentencing should be postponed while they file the paperwork to get the case dismissed. What exactly does that mean?

[Norm Eisen]

The decision of New York prosecutors, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, was kind of a glass half full or half empty, depending how you look at it. What Trump wanted was the whole case to be stayed. He wants to try to get the thing thrown out because he claims he's immune under Supreme Court decision. Trump, the U.S. the DA said it's okay to postpone. Postpone the sentencing. We can wait on sentencing, but the DA wants to brief this question. Is Trump immune or not? He set a schedule where the briefing will move at a pretty brisk pace by December. I would have liked to have seen the DA say let's surge ahead with sentencing, but at least the DA didn't give up.

[Jane Coston]

Is there any chance that this goes anywhere now that Trump is going to be president again? What's next?

[Norm Eisen]

A jury of regular Americans? Trump's peers found him guilty 34 counts of election interference in 2016 by paying the such money and then of covering it up by falsifying his business records. Let's not throw that out. That's very important. So I think we need to hang on to that verdict. We're now going to have some litigation about whether immunity applies, and that's going to go up on appeal. I think the Supreme Court is ultimately, if they apply the test that they announced in Trump vus in their own case, they're going to have to say, wait a minute, only official conduct is immune. How can this be official conduct? The guy did this before he was president, paying this hush money, interfering with the election, deceiving voters. That is an advantage of what Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan da, did today. He's not throwing in the towel. Unlike some of the other prosecutions, he wants to continue to proceed with the.

[Jane Coston]

Briefing and there's been an update in the election interference case against President elect in Georgia. A federal appeals court canceled oral arguments in the case. What does that mean for the future of that case?

[Norm Eisen]

In the Georgia case? That's the Georgia state case where there was supposed to be an argument in the Georgia appellate courts about whether or not the DA had a conflict there because the DA Had a relationship and the judge held no conflict. But it's up on appeal. The argument has been canceled. That's a worse situation than in New York. It's probably a sign that that court is dubious about whether the Georgia case can proceed against Trump. But remember, in Georgia, separately, in a case where Trump is not a defendant in Arizona and in other courts around the country, the alleged co conspirators have been charged. False electors have been charged all over the country. So those other conspirators, the cases should continue to move.

[Jane Coston]

Last time Trump was president, it felt like there were these constant legal threats that had people all excited and convinced that he was like, one step away from going to jail as part of some Hail Mary to remove him from the presidency. But obviously that didn't happen. Is this all the same thing? Are we getting excited over nothing? What's happening here?

[Norm Eisen]

This has been a tough year for legal accountability, Jane. That doesn't mean that Trump will never be held accountable. It doesn't mean we should stop pressing. I was there in court throughout the trial, and seeing him being held accountable by those jurors is still an important moment in the annals of 2024 and in American history. We have to protect that verdict. And that is what Alvin Bragg is moving to do. So even if he's not pushing for the sentencing, given that Trump likely would not be able to serve a criminal sentence while in the White House, the best thing to do is protect that verdict. And that's what Bragg is doing. The Trump administration was litigious. There was a tremendous amount of litigation, and he lost a lot of that litigation. And the courts are gonna hold accountable in that fashion if he breaks the rules.

[Jane Coston]

Once again, Norm, thank you so much for your time. And thanks for coming back on have Me Anytime. That was my conversation with Norm Eisen, former special counsel for the House Judiciary. Before we go, if you're new around here, make sure to check out Crooked's foreign policy show Pod Save the World host Tommy Vitor and Ben Rhodes cover the implications on Trump's national security picks, the recent news on Russia and Ukraine, and international summits like the G20 on their latest episode. Plus, Bernie Sanders drops by to talk about his effort in Congress to ban offensive weapon sales to Israel. New episodes of Pod Save the World drop every Wednesday. Tune in wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, buy Cher's new memoir because man, what a life that must have Been and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about Donald Trump assembling a worst hits of daytime television for his cabinet like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Costen and you know what you did Oprah what a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. Creative production helps from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.

[Norm Eisen]

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[McKay Coppins]

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[Norm Eisen]

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[McKay Coppins]

The buy one Big Carl, get one for a buck.

[Jane Coston]

Deal only at Carl's Jr big burger.

[McKay Coppins]

Get burger available for a limited time at participating restaurants.

[Jane Coston]

Tax not included.

[McKay Coppins]

Price may vary.

[Jane Coston]

Not valid with any other offer, discount or combo.

[McKay Coppins]

Hey, I'm Yara Shahidi and I'm the host of the Optimist Project. This is the podcast that asks what gives you hope. Each week I sit down with change makers you may or may not know from comedy, music, academia and more to uncover what inspires them to create a better tomorrow. Join us as we find out ways that we can cultivate optimism in our own lives. You can find the Optimist Project wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.