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What A Day
A Look At Trump And Epstein's History
00:23:01
Despite President Donald Trump's best efforts, his administration can't escape the conspiracies swirling around convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein — conspiracies Trump and his allies helped stoke before he returned to the White House.On Monday, House Speaker Mike Johnson said he would not permit a vote this summer on a non-binding resolution calling for the release of documents and records related to Epstein, who died by suicide in 2019 before his federal sex-trafficking trial. And on Friday, Trump sued The Wall Street Journal for billions of dollars over a story alleging he sent Epstein a lewd birthday card in the early 2000s, when the two were known to be friends. Trump has always denied any knowledge that the disgraced financier was abusing underage girls and young women, but there's no denying the two men frequently hung out together, often in the presence of young, attractive women.Matthew Goldstein, a New York Times business reporter who covers white collar crime, joins u...
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- [00:03]
Jane Coston
It's Tuesday, July 22nd. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a Day. The show that is noting that according to CBS news, President Donald Trump's approval among 18 to 29 year olds has gone from plus 10 in February to minus 44 in July. That's a negative swing of 54 points. Apparently the youth are not as excited about masked ICE officers and tax cuts for billionaires as some may have thought on today's show. Some people visiting the US Will need to pay a fee to get in, thanks to a provision in Trump's big beautiful law. And Texas Republicans are trying to redraw the state's congressional map to help the president in next year's midterm elections. But let's start with Jeffrey Epstein. President Donald Trump apparently does not want to talk about convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. When the Wall Street Journal reported on an alleged birthday letter from Trump to Epstein that featured a nude doodle and a cryptic message last week, Trump sued the paper and its owner Rupert Murdoch and his media company News Corps on Friday for billions of dollars. The White House also removed a Journal reporter from the press pool for Trump's upcoming trip to Scotland, and the president's allies in Congress are following suit. Speaker Mike Johnson said Monday that he would not permit the House to vote on a non binding resolution, a non binding resolution calling for the release of documents and records relating to Epstein, at least not before the August recess. Instead, Trump would seemingly rather talk about Rosie o' Donnell or changing the name of NFL team the Washington Commanders, or a conspiracy theory involving former President Barack Obama and Russian interference in the 2016 election that the conservative magazine National Review called frivolous and quote, thundering claptrap. But not Jeffrey Epstein. In fact, if you have questions about Jeffrey Epstein, Trump says you are a bad person. Here he is speaking on the subject last week.
- [02:01]
Matthew Goldstein
I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein.
- [02:04]
Jane Coston
Case would be of interest to anybody.
- [02:06]
Matthew Goldstein
It's pretty boring stuff.
- [02:08]
Jane Coston
It's sorted, but it's boring. And I don't understand why it keeps going. I think really, only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like, like that going. I don't think something can be both sordid and boring. But anyway, all of this is odd. I mean, for the last three years or so, members of Trump's circle of influencers, including multiple future administration officials, were jazzed to talk about Jeffrey Epstein to pretty much anyone who would ask, so what changed? How did Trump go from sounding like this in conversation with podcaster Lex Freeman in September Discussing Epstein's clients and his private island, Little St. James. The list of clients that went to the island has not been made public. Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it? Probably will be, by the way.
- [02:57]
Matthew Goldstein
Probably.
- [02:58]
Jane Coston
So if you're able to, you'll be. Yeah, certainly. Take a look at it. To posting on Truth Social that he doesn't want the support of anyone who bought the, quote, Jeffrey Epstein hoax. As a former Democratic vice presidential candidate once said, that sure is weird. Also weird is why Trump even leaned into the Epstein conspiracies in the first place, given their well documented friendship when the two shared social scenes in New York and Palm Beach, Florida in the 90s and early 2000s. That's where the whole birthday card allegation comes from. Trump has always denied any knowledge of Epstein's abuse of underage girls and young women, but there's no denying the two frequently hung out together, often in the presence of young, attractive women. Trump supporters were willing to overlook those ties for a long time, but that might be changing now. So for more on the backstory of Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and why the administration's efforts to shove this story under the rug have failed, I spoke to Matthew Goldstein. He's a New York Times business reporter focusing on white collar crime, and he's been reporting on the Epstein case. Matthew, welcome to why Today?
- [04:02]
Matthew Goldstein
Hi, thanks for having me.
- [04:04]
Jane Coston
So, I guess let's start from the beginning. When did Trump and Epstein first meet and how did they become friends?
- [04:12]
Matthew Goldstein
Well, you know, it's still a little bit murky, but it's believed to be sometime in 1990, 1992, time frame when they first met. Basically, their relationship began like two guys who were sort of well known in the New York and in the Palm beach area of Florida, where they both had places to be and they often would be at parties together, different events together. You know, it's sort of a relationship that sort of grew. I mean, I know the President has basically said they weren't particularly close friends. It's always hard to distinguish what is a friend and what isn't a friend, but it's clear that they were hanging out a lot together and went to events together.
- [04:54]
Jane Coston
One of their clear shared interests was their love of pretty young women. Now, Trump has maintained for years that he had no idea Epstein was abusing young women and underage girls. We have to note that Trump has never been accused of wrongdoing in connection with Epstein's cases. But what have these women said about Donald Trump?
- [05:14]
Matthew Goldstein
Yeah, I mean, one thing. Let me just start off like, you know, when we talk about young women, a lot of the very underage women, the 14, 15, 16 year olds, that really was sort of Epstein's thing. But that said, there were also a lot of women who were 17, 18 and 19 years old. No one has seen anything in terms of ultimately improper. But a few women have said. One is a woman, Stacey Williams, who actually came forward right before the election. And she has been around in some of the media talking about how Epstein brought her over to meet Trump at Trump Tower. This goes back to 1993, and immediately Trump starts groping her. And she said it was sort of like an octopus, it was sort of all over her. And she came away sort of feeling this was sort of like a game between them. Like, look who I got. What do you think about her?
- [06:07]
Jane Coston
Between Trump and Epstein, you mean?
- [06:08]
Matthew Goldstein
Yeah, Trump and Epstein to basically say who can get the best woman. Basically, other women we've talked to or have talked to over the years have said that they felt that they were being ogled by the President. There's one other woman at an event at Victoria's Secret event who said that she felt that she was, you know, somewhat also groped by, by the president. But, you know, it was a lot of what it is, it seems to be sort of like this, like I said, this competition, which, you know, is just sort of creepy and weird. And obviously at that time they were probably like in their, their 40s, and most of the women they were going after were like basically 2021 at that time.
- [06:51]
Jane Coston
Eventually, Trump and Epstein had a fall falling out over a real estate deal in Florida around 2004. What happened?
- [06:58]
Matthew Goldstein
Well, there's several different versions of their falling out. So the real estate deal was they both were vying for the same property in Florida and apparently Trump won out and Epstein was pissed off and they had a fight and that sort of ended to their relationship. Trump's argument is actually that the real estate issue really wasn't that important. What really happened was he was upset because he found out that Epstein had tried to approach the daughter of a Mar A Lago club member.
- [07:33]
Jane Coston
When did he start telling that story?
- [07:36]
Matthew Goldstein
He started telling that story when he was asked about Epstein, like basically around 2008, 2009. It's very well possible both versions are somewhat right, you know, because one can clearly see that Epstein had made an approach to women at Mar A Lago too. Trump has told that version to a bunch of other people. He told it to Brad Edwards, who was one of the big lawyers for the victims in the Epstein cases. And when Edwards was doing work on litigation in 2009, he had reached out to Trump about Epstein and about the relationship. And that was like the basic standard, standard line that Trump has said. And he has sort of generally stuck to that, that line since.
- [08:22]
Jane Coston
Pretty soon after their falling out, Epstein was arrested for the first time. He eventually pleaded guilty to state charges of soliciting prostitution from a minor. Then in 2019, he's charged with federal crimes of sex trafficking and conspiracy to traffic minors for sex. A few months later, Epstein hangs himself in prison ahead of his trial. But given Trump's long friendship with Epstein, and here's what's been wild to me, how has Trump been able to avoid more scrutiny from his base, really, up until now, despite the fact that there are photos and images and video of Epstein and Trump together?
- [08:55]
Matthew Goldstein
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of hard to get into, like, the MAGA base mindset. In the President's defense, you can argue whether he knew or did not know what was going on with Epstein. He cut it off before he was charged. So I think some give him credit for that. I think some look at it also, again, in a creepy kind of way. You know, in the late 90s, it was a different kind of culture. Some things that were accepted then are not accepted now. But if you look at just generally allegations that have been about Trump throughout the years, they seem to have slid off him. You know, I guess it's just that there's a very of his base. I think they're just very forgiving. And I think unless they're, quite frankly, is something specific, maybe with an underage girl, I think that might be a game changer. But we just don't have that, obviously, and we don't know if that even exists.
- [09:50]
Jane Coston
Trump's base has, at least for somewhat now, has turned some of their ire towards the Wall Street Journal for the story alleging Trump sent Epstein a lewd birthday card with a doodle of a naked woman and mention of a, quote, secret. The New York Times has not independently verified the story, and Trump flatly denies it, and he's suing the Journal for billions over it. But do you think that that's a good strategy? Because I would think if I want something to go away, I am not going to sue someone for billions of dollars where we're gonna have to go to discovery, we're gonna have to go to court to keep talking about it. It seems like that's not how you make something go away. Do you think that this is over for Trump now?
- [10:27]
Matthew Goldstein
Yeah. It is sort of baffling, though, as we've seen, his strategy seems to be to sue the media when things come out that he doesn't like. You know, look, I give the Journal credit. It was a good scoop to get. You're right. We haven't confirmed it. We, we know there was a birthday book. We haven't confirmed what was actually in it. You know, to me, it doesn't really change the dynamic of what people have sort of thought. You know, they, they were friends. We know that. So to me, I almost think you could have said, okay, it was a birthday book, I signed it, big deal. I think maybe this is just part of his general strategy of trying to rally the base and distract from it. I know people have said it opens up the door to discovery, which it does. But that assumes that this case actually gets anywhere close to trial. My guess is probably within a month or so. Maybe they quietly dismiss this lawsuit and just let it die or something and move on. Or maybe they happily hope it doesn't survive a motion to dismiss and goes away, and then they can say, at least we put up the good fight.
- [11:35]
Jane Coston
Trump has managed to keep his base behind him on some giant scandals, which even seems like a weird way to refer to something like January 6th, but let's go with it. And, you know, his claims about the 2020 election being stolen from him have become just bog standard views among his base. There's even going back to the Access Hollywood tape. I could keep going, but why has this, this feels different. Why has this turned into one of the biggest controversies of his second term? At least among the cracks it's creating among his base, especially the most visible members of his base. Is it because he basically did it to himself?
- [12:11]
Matthew Goldstein
Yeah, I mean, I think yes and no. I mean, and this is where I come in. I've been reporting what I call the money trail for the past six or seven years on this. And, you know, the Epstein story, on one hand, it's gross, it's disgusting. The sexual abuse of minors and even women, you know, young women. But what makes it sort of stand out is the fact that aside from just, you know, Trump, he had surrounded himself with all these powerful people, you know, in the world of finance, in academia, celebrities, in some ways, it sort of boggles the imagination. Why? I mean, Epstein wasn't. I mean, I've been told he was charismatic, which I'll give him. Maybe he was. He didn't seem particularly skilled at anything. I mean, he claimed he was a tax expert, but there's no real sense he really was. He wasn't really a great money manager. He often lost money for some of his clients. So, you know, I think that's the idea that the what I think unsettles a lot of people. Why did all these wealthy people, particularly men, hang out with him for all these years and want to be around him? And I think the fact that no one has ever really come up with a really good explanation except for all the men saying, oh, we weren't aware what was going on, which has sort of been the standard, you know, Epstein, Epstein line. So I think that sort of ends to why this keeps feeding upon itself and doesn't go away.
- [13:43]
Jane Coston
Matthew, thank you so much for your time.
- [13:45]
Matthew Goldstein
Thanks for having me.
- [13:47]
Jane Coston
That was my conversation with Matthew Goldstein, a New York Times reporter focusing on white collar crime who has been reporting on the Epstein case. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review and Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Workplace stress is not one of the top causes of declining mental health. With 61% of the global workforce experiencing higher than normal levels of stress. Yeah, I know. And therapy can be a great way to actually tackle stress. It can be helpful to learn positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. It can empower you to be the best version of yourself. And it's not just for those who have experienced major trauma. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com wad. That's betterhelp.com wad.
- [15:15]
Monica Petrelli
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- [15:45]
Matthew Goldstein
I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or dsw.com.
- [16:17]
Jane Coston
Here'S what else we're following today. Head of Lines.
- [16:23]
Matthew Goldstein
You know if I have a family.
- [16:24]
Jane Coston
Of four, I'm coming from India. I'd say this is $1,000 more of money that I may or may not get back. I may take my business elsewhere. That's CNBC's Monica Petrelli reporting on a little known provision in Trump's big beautiful bill turn law that will require visitors to the United states to pay $250 to enter the country. The new visa integrity fee will charge anyone on a non immigrant visa, like a student visa or temporary work visa, $250 on top of any other fees they would already pay. The cost cannot be waived, but it might be reimbursed if you comply with visa restrictions. The administration claims the integrity fee is designed to keep people from overstaying their visas, but this is still a concept of a plan. How or when the collections will start hasn't been announced, or how to get reimbursed for it, though the Congressional Budget Office says the fee could make the government around $29 billion because it's counting on people either not knowing how to get reimbursed or not wanting to go through the hassle. A Human Rights Watch report out Monday alleges, quote, dehumanizing conditions across immigration detention centers in Florida. The report includes countless horror stories from detainees, including claims of being forced to kneel with their hands cuffed behind their backs and eat from Styrofoam plates, quote, like dogs. The write up also attests that detainees have been denied medical care, which could have led to at least two deaths. The dispatch is a collaboration between Human Rights Watch, Americans for Immigrant justice and Sanctuary of the south, and it's based on interviews conducted with current and former detainees. In a statement that was released with a report, a spokesperson from Human Rights Watch said, quote, these are not isolated incidents, but rather the result of a fundamentally broken detention system that is rife with serious abuses. The authors of the report draw a connection between the Trump administration's increased immigration arrests and overcrowding in the facilities, which might get even worse. According to border czar Tom Homan at.
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Matthew Goldstein
A press conference Monday, every sanctuary cities are unsafe. I'll say it again. Sanctuary cities are sanctuaries for criminals.
- [18:31]
Jane Coston
And I'm going to work very hard for.
- [18:33]
Matthew Goldstein
Secretary Nolan to keep President Trump's promise and his commitment several weeks ago that sanctuary cities are now our priority.
- [18:40]
Jane Coston
We're going to flood the zone so we can look forward to more of all of this. The report recommends, quote, community based alternatives to detention, as well as independent oversight and immediate steps to address abusive conditions. A federal judge in Massachusetts heard oral arguments Monday in Harvard University's lawsuit against the Trump administration over funding cuts that it says are illegal. Earlier this year, the government froze over $2 billion in grants and contracts which jeopardized potentially life saving scientific, medical and technological research. The government's attorneys claim the cuts are punishment for the university failing to address Trump's executive order to combat antisemitism on campus, while lawyers for the university claim the cuts violate the First Amendment. U.S. district Judge Allison Burrows didn't make a decision from the bench on Monday. She appeared to lean in favor of the university, though she asked both sides tough questions. Burrows said it didn't seem the government followed protocol before making the cuts and that the administration made, quote, no documentation, no procedure, no process to suss out whether Harvard has taken enough steps to combat antisemitism. She also said the potential consequences for constitutional law in this case are, quote, staggering. After the hearing, Trump attacked Judge Burroughs, an Obama appointee, on Truth Social, calling her, quote, a total disaster, asking, quote, how did this Trump hating judge get these cases? He, of course, concluded with his new catchphrase, thank you for your attention to this matter. At the time of our recording, Burroughs had not issued a decision, but is expected to do so very soon. Texas Republicans, at the urging of their MAGA overlord President Trump, are poised to redraw the state's congressional maps this week. Former Democratic Representative Beto O' Rourke of Texas weighed in on the GOP's goals.
- [20:26]
Beto O'Rourke
Why are they doing this? Donald Trump's policies, whether it's the big beautiful bill that's going to take nearly 2 million Texans off of Medicaid or transfer nearly a trillion dollars of wealth to the richest 1% at the expense of working families, his policies are deeply unpopular. He doesn't want to face accountability from the voters and he's worried about keeping his very slim majority in Congress. So he's trying to pick up five seats through this redistricting process in Texas.
- [20:53]
Jane Coston
O' Rourke spoke to CNN's Jake Tapper on Sunday about the mid decade redistricting push in the state. The special session of the legislature started Monday. Texas Republican governor Greg Abbott called it to address the recent floods and Trump's request to redraw the congressional maps, among other issues. Trump is desperately trying to avoid the traditional midterm letdown that most incumbent presidents endure and hold on to the house in the 2026 midterm elections. O' Rourke said, though, that the effort could backfire.
- [21:21]
Beto O'Rourke
This may end up biting Republicans in the ass. You have the possibility that they will disperse Republican voters to make up these three or four or five new congressional districts and put those districts in play.
- [21:36]
Jane Coston
He also said it's time for Democrats to match fire with fire, suggesting similar efforts in blue states. California Democratic governor Gavin Newsom is exploring the possibility of redistricting in his state to help his party. And that's the news. Before we go, Great news. What a Day has new merch, a new Whataday T shirt and bottle opener just dropped. Wearing a soft T shirt and cracking open a cold drink are two of the things that make even the roughest days better. And we are all about that at Wadding. The designs are really colorful and fun and I know the Wad squad is going to love them. Grab them now@cricut.com store. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a review Thrill at what Donald Trump is going to try to wave at us to distract from the Epstein case Next and tell your friends to listen. Any of you are into reading and not just about how it could be anything. Aliens DB Cooper the Dyatlov Pass Mystery who Killed the Black Dahlia like me, Water Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@cricket.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and at this rate we might finally get all of Trump's tax returns. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Tyler Hill and Laura Newcombe. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior Vice President of news and Politics is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. We had help with the headlines today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is probably proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
- [24:02]
Monica Petrelli
Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of their national red Tag sales event, now extended through July 27. Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss. The red Tag sales event extended to July 27th. Discover the Dr. Horton Difference at drhorton.com Dr. Horton, America's Builder and Equal Housing Opportunity Builder.
- [24:33]
Beto O'Rourke
You ever watch the news and think, cool, everything's on fire. What now? We get it. That's why crooked media isn't just here to explain what's happening. We give you ways to actually do something about it. Real actions, Real impact. We help our listeners get involved at the local level to build power, flip Congress and take back the White House. You can be part of that work by subscribing to Friends of the pod, the best way to support our mission of building a progressive media counterweight to the right. With your subscription, you'll unlock ad free episodes of Offline Love it or Leave It, Pod Save America and POD Save the World, plus exclusive shows like Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer. You'll also get access to our Discord community where you can connect with fellow listeners, talk politics, vent about the news, and feel a little less alone in all of it. Go to qriket.com friends to sign up. It helps us do the work, and it might just help you stay sane.