Can Trump Really Bypass Senate To Fill His Cabinet?

Summary

Podcast Summary: What a Day – "Can Trump Really Bypass Senate To Fill His Cabinet?"

Released on November 21, 2024 by Crooked Media

In this insightful episode of "What a Day", host Jane Coaston delves into the controversial topic of former President Donald Trump's strategy to bypass the Senate in filling his cabinet positions. Through in-depth discussions and expert analysis, the episode unpacks the mechanics, implications, and potential challenges of Trump's proposed use of recess appointments.

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1. Trump’s Cabinet Nominations: A Reality TV Parody

Jane Coaston opens the episode with a critical take on Trump's recent cabinet nominations, likening the process to a reality TV show gone awry. She highlights three key appointments:

• Linda McMahon as Secretary of Education
  Timestamp: [00:45]
  Jane Coston: “Late Tuesday night, Trump picks Linda McMahon, the former chief executive of World Wrestling Entertainment, to be his next Secretary of Education. Does she have a lot of hands-on education experience? No, but she did spend about a year on the Connecticut State Board of Education before two failed runs for Senate.”

• Matthew Whitaker as Ambassador to NATO
  Timestamp: [01:30]
  Jane Coston: “On Wednesday, he selected former Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker for the job. Does he have a foreign policy background? No. But in addition to his previous work in the Justice Department, he did help run a scam hawking toilets for well endowed men.”

• Howard Lutnick as Commerce Secretary
  Timestamp: [02:00]
  Jane Coston: “Trump's pick for Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, a billionaire former finance executive and Trump's current transition advisor. Trump said this week that Lutnick will, quote, lead our tariff and trade agenda, an agenda a lot of Republicans aren't really on board with because they don't like tariffs.”

Jane humorously questions the viability of these nominees passing through the Senate confirmation process, drawing a parallel to the unpredictability of a single episode of "Jeopardy."

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2. Understanding Recess Appointments

To explore how Trump intends to bypass the Senate, Jane converses with Casey Burgitt, Director of the Legislative Affairs Program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management.

• Definition and Historical Context
  Timestamp: [02:48]
  Casey Burgitt: “Within the Constitution, the president has appointment power... But there's also recess appointments written in the late 1780s for a time when there was no cars, no roads, really no Internet. So basically when the Senate was often more not in session than they were in session.”

Burgitt emphasizes that recess appointments were designed for an era with infrequent congressional sessions, allowing presidents to fill vacancies temporarily when the Senate is not in session.

• Historical Usage
  Timestamp: [03:35]
  Casey Burgitt: “Other presidents like Obama and Bush have used recess appointments, but never for cabinet-level positions. They were typically for lower-level appointments to keep government functions running smoothly.”

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3. The Feasibility and Constitutionality of Trump's Plan

Jane and Burgitt delve into the specifics of Trump's plan to employ recess appointments for cabinet positions.

• Temporary Nature of Recess Appointments
  Timestamp: [04:20]
  Casey Burgitt: “They are temporary, not supposed to be. They exist until the next Senate session expires. They have all the powers of the office, but they are recognized as recess appointees and are not eligible for the same pay as confirmed secretaries.”

• Potential Legal Challenges
  Timestamp: [05:34]
  Casey Burgitt: “If Trump tries to adjourn Congress to facilitate recess appointments, it could lead to constitutional challenges. Democrats are likely to object and take the matter to the courts, potentially up to the Supreme Court.”

Burgitt highlights the unprecedented nature of using recess appointments at the cabinet level and the probable legal battles that would ensue, questioning whether Trump can legitimately use this power for partisan gains.

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4. Political Reactions and Senate Dynamics

The conversation shifts to the political landscape and the Senate's role in either supporting or opposing Trump's moves.

• Senate’s Potential Response
  Timestamp: [07:17]
  Casey Burgitt: “With a united Senate majority, Trump might push forward with his agenda. However, Democrats are expected to fiercely oppose any attempts to sideline the Senate, leading to a significant power struggle.”

• Party Loyalty and Institutional Checks
  Timestamp: [07:52]
  Casey Burgitt: “Trump is essentially testing the loyalty of his own party members in the Senate. If Republicans in the Senate stand by traditional processes, they can act as a check on Trump's use of recess appointments.”

Burgitt remains cautiously optimistic, noting that initial reactions from Senate Republicans indicate reluctance to undermine institutional checks, but warns that sustained pressure from Trump could change dynamics.

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5. Broader Political Implications and Additional News

Beyond the main topic, the episode touches on several other political developments:

• Matt Gaetz’s Nomination as Attorney General
  Despite allegations of sexual misconduct, Trump continues to support Gaetz's nomination. Leaked reports and internal Republican maneuvers suggest significant contention within the party regarding Gaetz’s suitability.

• Texas’ Offer to Trump for Deportation Facilities
  Texas has offered thousands of acres of land to the Trump administration to facilitate mass deportations. This plan faces opposition from Democrats and even some Republicans, exemplifying the contentious nature of Trump's immigration policies.

• House Speaker Mike Johnson’s Transgender Bathroom Ban
  Johnson announced a ban on transgender individuals using bathrooms that align with their gender identity within Capitol and House office buildings, sparking debates on civil rights and discrimination.

• Louisiana’s Ten Commandments Classroom Display
  Republican Governor Jeff Landry’s bill mandating the display of the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms has been blocked by courts due to separation of church and state concerns. The episode discusses the legal and cultural ramifications of this move.

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6. Expert Analysis and Concluding Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Casey Burgitt provides nuanced insights into the constitutional framework and political strategies at play. His analysis underscores the complexity of Trump's approach to bypassing traditional Senate confirmations and the potential long-term impacts on American governance.

• Constitutional Boundaries
  Timestamp: [06:32]
  Casey Burgitt: “There’s a possibility that the Supreme Court will have to weigh in on whether the President’s use of adjournment power for recess appointments is constitutional.”

• Institutional Stability
  Timestamp: [08:28]
  Casey Burgitt: “Ignoring 200 years of institutional processes poses significant risks to the stability and balance of power within the government.”

Jane Coaston concludes the discussion by expressing concern over the current political maneuvering, emphasizing the need for vigilance in upholding democratic norms and processes.

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Notable Quotes

• Casey Burgitt: “They are temporary, not supposed to be... They issue orders to their bureaucracies and they're going to follow them the same way they would a confirmed secretary.”
  [04:27]

• Casey Burgitt: “Trump is essentially testing the loyalty of his own party members in the Senate. If Republicans in the Senate stand by traditional processes, they can act as a check on Trump's use of recess appointments.”
  [07:52]

• Casey Burgitt: “These institutional processes have existed for over 200 years, but we've never talked about it until someone actually wants to use it for such explicit partisan ends.”
  [08:28]

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Conclusion

This episode of "What a Day" provides a comprehensive examination of Donald Trump's potential strategy to bypass the Senate using recess appointments for his cabinet selections. Through expert interviews and detailed analysis, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the constitutional mechanisms, political risks, and broader implications of such actions on the American political landscape. Jane Coaston effectively navigates the complexities of the issue, offering both critical perspectives and informed foresight into the evolving dynamics of power within the U.S. government.

Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Thursday, November 21st. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a day. The show where we will not stop calling Campbell's Soup Campbell's Soup despite their efforts to rebrand. Because that's what it is. It's soup made by Campbell's. This isn't hard. On today's show, Texas offers Trump land for his mass deportation plans. And there are new details about the allegations against Matt Gaetz. Let's get into it. The reality show that is President Elect Donald Trump's White House appointments keeps on rolling. But unlike other bad reality tv, we are all a captive audience to the cast of clowns being paraded in front of our eyeballs. Late Tuesday night, Trump picks Linda McMahon, the former chief executive of World Wrestling Entertainment, to be his next Secretary of Education. Does she have a lot of hands on education experience? No, but she did spend about a year on the Connecticut State Board of Education before two failed runs for Senate. On the other hand, if confirmed, McMahon will almost certainly be the first cabinet secretary to be body slammed or more specifically tombstoned by a professional wrestler on tv. Then there's Trump's pick for ambassador to NATO. On Wednesday, he selected former Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker for the job. Does he have a foreign policy background? No. But in addition to his previous work in the Justice Department, he did help run a scam hawking toilets for well endowed men. And finally, there's Trump's pick for Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, a billionaire former finance executive and Trump's current transition advisor. Trump said this week that Lutnick will, quote, lead our tariff and trade agenda, an agenda a lot of Republicans aren't really on board with because they don't like tariffs. So the big question a lot of us are asking is how many of these people can actually make it through the Senate confirmation process or through a single episode of Jeopardy, for that matter. And that's where something called recess appointments come in. Trump and his team are touting it as a way to get his picks in place, bypassing the Senate altogether. Stephen Miller, Trump's incoming deputy chief of staff for policy, told Fox News Tuesday night that that's the plan. The president has won a mandate and he will use all lawful constitutional means to fulfill that mandate on behalf of the people who voted for him in record numbers. First, we should have a conversation about what a mandate is. But anyway, so to talk through what this would all actually look like and whether it's even constitutional, I spoke with Casey Burgitt. He's the director of the Legislative affairs program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management. And he hosts GW's political podcast, Mastering the Room. Casey, welcome to what a day.

[Casey Burgitt]

Thank you, thank you. Good to be here.

[Jane Coston]

So give us a little primer on recess appointments. What are they and why do they exist?

[Casey Burgitt]

Oh, boy, here we go. So within the Constitution, the president has appointment power, right? Cabinet level secretaries, federal judges, typically you get a nomination, the Senate provides advice and consent. That's their constitutional duty, and then we get the appointment. But there's also recess appointments written in the late 1780s for a time when there was no cars, no roads, really no Internet. So basically when the Senate was often more not in session than they were in session. And so there's this appointment process that gives the ability to the president, when the Senate is in recess to fill seats within his Cabinet. Federal appointments to allow the government to continue is written for a different age. And now it's being dusted off in a. In a more aggressive way to apply in 2024 and 2025 and beyond.

[Jane Coston]

How frequently have recess appointments been used by other presidents? And have they ever been used for a cabinet level position like Trump wants?

[Casey Burgitt]

Let's start at the easy one. No, not on the cabinet level. This is an escalation. If we know anything about presidents, they're gonna try to take as much power as they can, and so long as Congress lets them, they're gonna just keep doing it. And so this is that next iteration of the recess appointment power by Trump. But other presidents have used them, including Obama, including former President Bush, where they use them for not cabinet level secretaries and not Supreme Court justices, but lower level appointments, usually later in their terms to fill seats, that they just want the work to continue on. And they've been frustrated with the Senate's a less than fast way of confirming their appointments that have typically sat there for a long time.

[Jane Coston]

And for the person who's appointed this way, is it just the same as someone who was confirmed by the Senate? Because recess appointments are supposed to be temporary.

[Casey Burgitt]

They are temporary, not supposed to be. They are by definition. And so they exist until the next Senate session expires. So you do it immediately, let's say then you get two years, basically in a temporary position. But it does come with all of the powers of the office, the same way that an acting secretary could. So, yes and no. They have all the powers of the office, but everyone knows them as a recess appointee. It's kind of this inside baseball type of. This person didn't get the Real Senate confirmation process treatment. But even then they issue orders to their bureaucracies and they're going to follow them the same way they would a.

[Jane Coston]

Cabinet level secretary, but they also don't get paid.

[Casey Burgitt]

Good point. Yes. And so this is one of the big trade offs there too in that the if you are not confirmed by the Senate, then you are not eligible to be paid the same way that a typical cabinet secretary would.

[Jane Coston]

So let's game this out and let's use former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz as an example. Trump has picked him to be his Attorney General. Walk us through the process of installing him in that job via a recess appointment. How would that work? Would it involve like dismissing both houses of Congress, like what goes on here?

[Casey Burgitt]

Not so far as dismissing, though. I do appreciate the House of Cards, Ian kind of way of thinking about this because this is a huge escalation here. But what has to happen is that the Senate needs to go into recess, hence recess appointments. And the only way they can do that if the House and Senate to decide to they need to be gone for 10 days minimum. That is what the Supreme Court has ruled. If the House and Senate disagree about adjourning for longer than three days. Stay with me here. This matters. If they disagree about adjourning for longer than three days, then the President then has the power to basically put Congress into a recess. It's typically only seen as a break glass in case of emergency type scenario like a terrorist attack or something like that, where Congress, you better get out of dodge. I'm telling you as your commander in chief, this explicitly isn't that so we would likely to see a challenge of the constitutionality question of does his adjournment power the president's extend as far as him being so blatant and partisan to say, you guys get out of town so I can get the people I want without going through the actual process.

[Jane Coston]

So if Trump did try to adjourn Congress, could lawmakers just say no?

[Casey Burgitt]

It depends. If he has a Senate and a House majority, which he's obviously walking into the next Congress with, he can go pretty far without them saying boo. There's no outside umpire here saying, no, no, no, you can't do this, you're breaking the law. So long as the House and Senate go along with what the President wants to do, he can go pretty far in terms of his powers. But Democrats are going to object big time and they're likely going to take this to the courts to decide this constitutionality question of does the President's adjournment power, can it be used for such explicitly and short term partisan ends, like a recess appointment? Can that be the basis of his adjournment power? That would likely be run up to the Supreme Court. Who is the body that decides these constitutional questions?

[Jane Coston]

Would they have other means of holding this up?

[Casey Burgitt]

Man, you're gonna have to get really procedural. And if you have a united majority in the Senate and you have a united majority in the House, this is where it's really tough to broker all of those procedural obstacles that we think that are just existing in the House and Senate. You gotta have a united front to do it. And without the majority, it's really tough to do.

[Jane Coston]

Just from a raw politics standpoint, it's super weird that Trump is talking about bypassing a Senate that is controlled by his own party. Like, it's bonkers that we're even talking about this. What does that tell you about the moment that we're in right now and the kinds of nominees Trump is floating.

[Casey Burgitt]

That they wouldn't get confirmed without this process? Right. You don't float this, especially with, with a Senate controlled by your own party. You're making your own people check your own power, which is basically, and maybe that's the end goal here, if we're given a lot of credit to Trump here, that the chest, not checkers argument of like, let's see how far these folks are willing to support me. Are they willing to literally adjourn themselves, give up their power as a check on my appointment power, and just leave town? When I say to like, is this the congressional equivalent of me say jump? And we say, how high? It's. You leave town. And I say, you bet.

[Jane Coston]

For how long do you think Senate Republicans would actually try to prevent Trump from sidelining them? Because, like, they do enjoy being senators. Right? Like, they enjoy the power. It's not just like getting to hang out in Capitol Hill and having an office.

[Casey Burgitt]

Yeah. I think you can have both at the same time. And they do like the power, especially when the president is of the opposite party. But this is where, like the, when we say these things, like the Trump takeover of the Republican Party is complete, this is where it really starts to matter. And that when you start ignoring these institutional processes, when we. This has existed for over 200 years, but we've never talked about it until someone actually wants to use it for such explicit partisan ends. And now we're relying on members of his own party to check that power. And so far, I've been encouraged about what senators have said of like, no, this isn't an option. We're not giving this up. This isn't the way we're supposed to be doing this. That's one thing to say right now, but when the lights get bright and when he starts calling and threatening, maybe a tweet on your name, we'll see if they stand up that way too.

[Jane Coston]

You know, it's probably not great that we are like neck deep in procedural questions right now.

[Casey Burgitt]

That's how you know things are a problem.

[Jane Coston]

Like, I don't this. I'm not feeling 100% good about this. But Casey, thank you so much for joining me.

[Casey Burgitt]

Absolutely. Anytime.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Casey Burgitt, Director of the Legislative affairs program at GW's Graduate School of Political Management. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads what a Day is brought to you by Quince. All Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less in similar brands. That includes beautiful leather jackets, cotton cardigans, soft denim, and so much more. How are they able to do that? By partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman, which passes savings on to you. I love my Quint sweaters. They have absolutely gotten me through that weird transition time between summer and fall and they are so wearable for any occasion. Get cozy and Quince's high quality wardrobe Essentials go to quince.com wad for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com wad to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com wad what a day is brought to you by the Zero Emission Transportation Association Education Fund. The Zeta Education Fund wants Americans to know about the positive economic impact the EV and battery supply chain is having on our communities. Like how it's already created 240,000 jobs and attracted $177 billion of investment. More than a million EVs were sold in the US last year and there are currently over 200,000 public charging locations in the United States. Join forces with the Zeta Education Fund and help spread the facts about what a transition to EVs means for the future of America. Get on board@zeta zeta.org join what a day is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and state for over 75 years, Americans United for separation of church and state has tirelessly defended your right to live as yourself and believe as you choose. From protecting LGBTQIA rights and marriage equality to safeguarding reproductive freedom in our public schools, church, state, separation is at the heart of our most vital freedoms. Americans United fights for every individual's freedom to believe as they choose, so long as they don't harm others. Join the fight today at au.org crooked and now the News head of Lines.

[Bernie Sanders]

You cannot condemn human rights around the world and then turn a blind eye to what the United States government is now funding in Israel. People will laugh in your face.

[Jane Coston]

Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders forced a Senate vote on Wednesday that would stop the US from selling American weapons to Israel amid the war in Gaza. It failed, only getting support from a handful of Democrats. Sanders introduced the legislation after President Biden said last week that he would not punish Israel for the worsening humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Biden's position contradicted the administration's previous statement in October when it threatened to cut off military aid to Israel if conditions did not improve. Sanders had this to say on the Senate floor ahead of the vote.

[Bernie Sanders]

Bottom line, the United States government must obey the law.

[Jane Coston]

Earlier in the day, the US Vetoed a UN Resolution calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, crushing the governing body's attempt to bring peace to the besieged strip for the fourth time. The most recent resolution calls for an immediate humanitarian pause in Gaza with no conditions. Deputy U.S. ambassador Robert Wood cast the vote on behalf of the U.S. the only member of the UN to vote no, and he said that the U.S. cannot support the resolution because it did not require Hamas to return the remaining Israeli hostages. Before a ceasefire is called, a durable end to the war must come with the release of the hostages. These two urgent goals are inextricably linked. Mr. President, are you reconsidering the nomination of Matt Gaetz? No. President Elect Donald Trump confirmed Tuesday that he still supports the nomination of former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz as his attorney general. That's despite the investigation into allegations of sexual misconduct made against Gaetz, but that was on Tuesday. On Wednesday, the House Ethics Committee deadlocked along party lines on whether or not to release a potentially explosive report by the committee. However, this is 2024 and leakers be leaking. Part of the leaked investigation, which was first obtained by ABC News, reported that Gaetz sent at least $10,000 to two women in exchange for sex. A lawyer for the women says the report contains, quote, numerous damning photographs as well. Behind the scenes, Gaetz and Vice President Elect JD Vance have been having meetings with Republican members of Congress to try and rally support for his nomination and address potential concerns. But gates may be running out of time. Representative Sean Kassen from Illinois announced Wednesday that he's going to introduce a motion to force the entire House to vote on whether the report should be released. The state of Texas has offered the Trump administration thousands of acres of land to construct deportation facilities. In a letter to Trump, Texas Land Commissioner Dawn Buckingham said her office is ready to work with the Department of Homeland Security, Border Patrol, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement to help coordinate, quote, the largest deportation of violent criminals in the nation's history. What's it called again, when you round up a population and concentrate them in one facility? But Trump's plan to use the military for mass deportations is already getting pushback, not just from Democrats. Here's Kentucky Senator Rand Paul on Newsmax Tuesday.

[Bernie Sanders]

I'm not in favor of sending the army in uniforms into our cities to collect people. I think it's a terrible image, and that's not what we use our military for. We never have. And it's actually been illegal for over.

[Casey Burgitt]

100 years to bring the army into our city.

[Jane Coston]

Paul said that the role should instead be done by police and should be focused on criminals. Trump has said he'll begin deporting hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants on the first day of his presidency and has nominated former ICE Director Thomas Homan as border czar to oversee the operation. House Speaker Mike Johnson changed House rules on Wednesday because of transphobic nonsense. Johnson announced all transgender people will be banned from using bathrooms that align with their gender identity. On the Hill, he said the rule will apply to facilities in the Capitol and House office buildings. We told you on yesterday's show about how South Carolina Congresswoman Nancy Mace introduced a resolution this week that would ban trans women from women's bathrooms. On the Hill, it's aimed squarely at Delaware Democratic Congresswoman elect Sarah McBride, the first openly trans member of Congress. McBride put out a statement on Wednesday in response, saying she'll follow whatever House rules are in place when she assumes office. She said she's, quote, not here to fight about bathrooms because she's focused on, you know, doing her job. And that's the news. One more thing. I don't talk about my own religious views on this show. It's personal and generally I don't want to do it. But I think it's worth speaking as a Christian with a deep familiarity with Christianity and scripture when discussing efforts by Republicans in states like Louisiana to enshrine their beliefs. And that's the critical point here. Into law and our schools. In June, Republican governor Jeff Landry signed a bill that would require every public school classroom in the state to display a copy of the Ten Commandments. In response to concerns from parents who objected, Landry said in August that there was an easy solution.

[Bernie Sanders]

And so what I would say to those parents is that if those posters are in school and they find them so why would you tell the child not to look at it?

[Jane Coston]

Sure. Anyway, on Wednesday, a court ruled that the state couldn't take action on its plans while litigation stemming from parents objecting to the law continues. Now, on its face, it seems like a pretty simple separation of church and state issue, but when you dig down into it a little more, it's actually a separation of churches from other churches and synagogues. Because there are actually three versions of the Ten Commandments detailed in the Old Testament. You can find them in Exodus 20, Exodus 34, and Deuteronomy 5. They aren't identical. The ten commandments described in Exodus 34 feature such edicts as do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me, along with anything containing yeast. Super handy for our nation's third graders. But wait, because the version Louisiana wants to post isn't actually in the Bible, but it is in the 1956 movie the Ten Commandments, and many Protestants use that version, but many Catholics and Jewish people don't. Now, the argument from the state of Louisiana is that this isn't about religion at all, but history. That's the same reasoning Oklahoma is using to argue for incorporating the Bible into lessons in public schools, because a kid reading about the time Elisha got made fun of for his baldness by a group of children and then sent bears to maul them 2 Kings 2:23 24 is really going to help them understand something. But it clearly isn't about history. It's about wielding the Bible and the Ten Commandments as a weapon, or more accurately, as a talisman. These people don't read scripture because scripture is hard and complicated and involves way, way, way more rape and murder than you might think. But they want to wave it in front of their problems, both real school shootings and imaginary kids being lgbt. Which is ironic because using talismans is expressly forbidden in the Bible. Before we go on Hysteria's latest episode, Alyssa and Aaron are breaking down the rights, the wrongs, and the risks of Trump's latest unhinged cabinet nominations as they try to answer the question on everyone's mind, who will even make it to inauguration. Tune in for tips on staying mentally and physically prepared for a second Trump presidency. Listen to Hysteria now, wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, think about the amount of time we're going to spend discussing different wrestling finishing moves over the next four years, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the WWE became a springboard for politicians like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Costen and honestly, I'm kind of surprised Stone Cold Steve Austin hasn't been picked around the FBI. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. We had a production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.

[Bernie Sanders]

Hey.

[Yara Shahidi]

I'm Yara Shahidi and I'm the host of the Optimist Project. This is the podcast that asks what gives you hope. Each week I sit down with change makers you may or may not know from comedy, music, academia, and more to uncover what inspires them to create a better tomorrow. Join us as we find out ways that we can cultivate optimism in our own lives. You can find the Optimist Project wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well. Deck upgrades done well Electrical Upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality certified [e-mail].