Congress Ain’t Gettin’ Any Younger, Folks

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Congress Ain’t Gettin’ Any Younger, Folks"

Podcast Information:

• Title: What A Day
• Host/Author: Crooked Media
• Episode: Congress Ain’t Gettin’ Any Younger, Folks
• Release Date: January 7, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 7, 2025 episode of What A Day, host Jane Coston delves into significant political developments, prominently featuring Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's resignation and the former leader of the Proud Boys seeking a presidential pardon from Donald Trump. The episode underscores a critical examination of the aging landscape of the U.S. Congress and its broader implications on governance and democracy.

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Election Certification and Trump's Victory

The episode opens with a reflection on the smooth certification of the 2024 U.S. election results on January 6th, marking President-elect Donald Trump's victory. This event is juxtaposed against the tumultuous 2020 certification when Trump disputed Joe Biden's win, leading to the January 6th Capitol insurrection.

Jane Coston highlights the ceremonial role of Vice President Kamala Harris during the certification:

Kamala Harris [00:55]: "This announcement of the state of the vote by the President of the Senate shall be deemed a sufficient dispute declaration of the persons elected President and Vice President of the United States."

Coston notes the irony of Harris, who presided over certifying her own loss, now overseeing the affirmation of Trump's presidency.

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The Aging Congress and Gerontocracy

A central theme of the episode is the significant age disparity within the U.S. Congress compared to the general population. Jane Coston presents alarming statistics:

• Median Age of Congress: Approximately 70 years
• Median Age of Americans: Approximately 39 years

Notable examples include:

• Republican Senator Mitch McConnell
• Democratic Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi
• Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (74)
• Texas Republican Kate Granger (81)

Coston emphasizes that nearly a quarter of Congress members are 70 or older, raising concerns about a gerontocracy—a government dominated by the elderly.

A poignant moment features a remark from a young Republican, Brandon Gill:

Brandon Gill [02:44]: "Young people have seen this country run by an older and older and older generation. And what have we experienced? We've experienced a housing crisis where it's difficult whenever you're graduating high school or graduating college to find affordable housing. We've seen our jobs being taken away from illegal aliens who are coming in wages depressed because we, because of our open borders."

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Interview with Ken Klippenstein: Implications of an Aging Legislature

Jane Coston engages in an insightful conversation with Ken Klippenstein, an independent journalist specializing in national security. They explore the multifaceted challenges posed by an aging Congress:

• Access to Classified Information: A RAND Corporation report warned about senior officials living longer due to medical advancements, increasing the risk of dementia and potential security breaches.

• Political Seniority: The traditional deference to seniority impedes the infusion of younger voices and perspectives within legislative processes.

• Health and Competency Concerns: Instances like Nancy Pelosi's hip surgery and Mitch McConnell's health issues highlight the physical limitations of aging lawmakers.

Klippenstein elaborates:

Ken Klippenstein [03:41]: "Gerontocracy, it's derived from Latin, ruled by the elderly and people disagree on what age constitutes too old to be in office. [...] These aren't one-off instances."

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Public Opinion and Voter Behavior

The discussion transitions to the role of voters in perpetuating the gerontocracy. Ken Klippenstein suggests that older politicians accrue more power and social capital over time, presenting advantages in elections:

Ken Klippenstein [08:36]: "More time on earth would give you more time to accrue power, social capital, actual capital. And so that's always going to be an advantage."

However, there's an emerging shift in public sentiment, with polls indicating growing unease among Democrats regarding Biden's age:

Ken Klippenstein [10:34]: "I am seeing signs of a shift on the part of public opinion [...] this is something that's percolating, I think, in the general sort of public imagination."

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News Highlights

The episode transitions to a series of news briefs:

1. Justin Trudeau's Resignation:

   • Context: Amidst rising inflation and cost of living concerns, Trudeau announces his intention to resign after nearly a decade in office.
   • Public Reaction: Increased pressure from his own party and opposition parties are pushing for a no-confidence vote, potentially triggering a general election.

2. Donald Trump's Legal Challenges:

   • Sentencing Delay Denied: Trump's request to postpone sentencing in his hush money case is denied by Justice Juan Merchan, although he may appeal.
   • Pardon Request: Enrique Tarrio, former Proud Boys chairman convicted of seditious conspiracy, seeks a presidential pardon from Trump. Tarrio's legal team claims his prosecution was for "expressing their freedom of expression."

3. Rudy Giuliani in Contempt:

   • Details: Giuliani is found in contempt of court for failing to provide asset information to defamed Georgia election workers, who have been awarded over $140 million in damages.

4. U.S.-China Cybersecurity Tensions:

   • Incident: A cyberhack on the U.S. Treasury Department by Chinese hackers accessing workstations and unclassified documents.
   • Response: Charges against a Beijing-based cybersecurity company for its alleged role in hacking attacks on U.S. telecommunications infrastructure. Chinese authorities criticize U.S. sanctions, although they are unrelated to the Treasury breach.

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Enrique Tarrio's Pardon Request

A significant segment covers Enrique Tarrio's appeal to Donald Trump for a presidential pardon:

Tarrio's Lawyer [18:15]: "The government prosecuted Tarrio and other Proud Boy members for expressing their freedom of expression."

Despite Tarrio not being present in D.C. during the January 6th insurrection, his actions, including burning a Black Lives Matter banner, led to his 22-year federal sentence.

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Host's Reflection on Boredom

Towards the episode's conclusion, Jane Coston reflects on modern society's aversion to boredom, drawing inspiration from Chris Hayes's upcoming book, "The Siren's How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource." She discusses the psychological benefits of boredom, such as fostering creativity and self-awareness, contrasting it with the constant digital distractions prevalent today.

Jane Coston [14:36]: "Boredom can offer inspiration, creative urges, and new ideas."

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Conclusion

What A Day effectively highlights the pressing issue of an aging Congress and its implications on American democracy. Through engaging discussions and expert insights, particularly from Ken Klippenstein, the episode underscores the necessity for generational renewal in legislative bodies. Coupled with timely news updates, Jane Coston provides listeners with a comprehensive overview of the current political landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kamala Harris [00:55]: "This announcement of the state of the vote by the President of the Senate shall be deemed a sufficient dispute declaration of the persons elected President and Vice President of the United States."

• Brandon Gill [02:44]: "Young people have seen this country run by an older and older and older generation. [...] we've experienced a housing crisis [...] jobs being taken away from illegal aliens [...] open borders."

• Ken Klippenstein [03:41]: "Gerontocracy, it's derived from Latin, ruled by the elderly [...] These aren't one-off instances."

• Ken Klippenstein [08:36]: "More time on earth would give you more time to accrue power, social capital, actual capital."

• Ken Klippenstein [10:34]: "I am seeing signs of a shift on the part of public opinion [...] this is something that's percolating, I think, in the general sort of public imagination."

• Jane Coston [14:36]: "Boredom can offer inspiration, creative urges, and new ideas."

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Additional Information:

For more insights and detailed reporting, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to What A Day via their favorite podcast platforms or watch episodes on YouTube. The show is supported by Crooked Media's nightly newsletter and offers various resources for staying informed on current events and trends shaping the future.

Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Tuesday, January 7th. I'm Jane Coston and this is what a day. The show that is taking a break from discourse. Which discourse? All the discourse. Twitter Discourse? Blue Sky? Discourse. Discord? Discourse. I have discoursed and now I'm discoursed out. On today's show, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announces his resignation. And the former leader of the proud boys is asking Trump for a pardon. Let's get into it. The certification of the 2024 election went off without a hitch on Monday. The 119th Congress confirmed President elect Donald Trump's victory, exactly four years after Trump denied President Joe Biden the same courtesy by inciting a violent mob of insurrectionists to march to the Capitol. Vice President Kamala Harris presided over the ceremony certifying her own loss.

[Kamala Harris]

This announcement of the state of the vote by the President of the Senate shall be deemed a sufficient dispute declaration of the persons elected President and Vice President of the United States.

[Jane Coston]

Speaking after she said she was just doing her duty.

[Kamala Harris]

It was about what should be the norm and what the American people should be able to take for granted, which is that one of the most important pillars of our democracy is that there will be a peaceful transfer of power. And today I did what I have done my entire career, which is take six seriously. The oath that I have taken many times to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

[Jane Coston]

One person's civic duty is another state sanctioned torture. I guess. Monday's certification sets the stage for Trump's inauguration in two weeks. At 78 years old, he'll be the oldest president ever sworn into office. He'll edge out Biden by just a few months and at 82, Biden will walk away as the oldest sitting president ever. It speaks to a bigger issue within American that the people running it are old as hell. Republican Senator Mitch McConnell and Democratic Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi led their respective caucuses into their 80s. Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer isn't far behind at 74. And that's just senior leadership, no pun intended. Last month we found out 81 year old Texas Republican Kate Granger was living at a retirement home and hadn't voted since July. She wasn't seeking re election. But the former Congresswoman's office also never disclosed what was going on. In fact, nearly a quarter of Congress is 70 or older, while the median age of Americans is about 39. And there's a word for gerontocracy. During a CNN panel with incoming freshman lawmakers, 30 year old Republican Brandon Gill of Texas said it's a problem.

[Brandon Gill]

Young people have seen this country run by an older and older and older generation. And what have we experienced? We've experienced a housing crisis where it's difficult whenever you're graduating high school or graduating college to find affordable housing. We've seen our jobs being taken away from illegal aliens who are coming in wages depressed because we, because of our open borders.

[Jane Coston]

Now you don't have to agree with everything or anything he says there to agree with the sentiment. In short, getting older is a fickle thing. People don't age uniformly. There are plenty of spry 70 year olds out there. And I hope you're listening to this podcast. But for more on the problems an aging Congress does pose, I spoke with Ken Klippenstein. He's an independent journalist covering national security on [e-mail] Ken, welcome back to what a Day.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Hey, good to be with you.

[Jane Coston]

So broadly speaking, we know that a gerontocracy is a government run by the elderly. But can you put a finer point on that definition for us as it relates to the US Government? What does it look like here?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Yeah, well, I'm actually a national security reporter first and foremost. And so people often ask me how did you get into covering the gerontocracy issue? And my first exposure to it, where I sort of realized that it was a thing, was reading a report by the RAND Corporation, which is the Pentagon backed think tank, warning that all these senior officials have access to classified information. And increasingly because of advancements in medical technology, they're living longer, longer. And so they're finding that dementia is more and more of an issue. And that report in itself is kind of interesting because they described how despite all of the checks in place to ensure that people with access to our nation's most closely guarded secrets, there actually wasn't really any mechanism to try to pull someone's clearance in the event that dementia ends up causing them to disclose some of this information. But to your question, gerontocracy, it's a derived from Latin, ruled by the elderly and people disagree on what age constitutes too old to be in office. But I mean, some of these cases like McConnell just shutting down and freezing multiple instances, this is clearly affecting their ability to carry out the job. I mean, we saw this, I think really strikingly in this election of the top Democrat for the House Oversight Committee, which is gonna have a very visible and public facing role as we go into the Trump administration over the next two years. The selection of, I think he's 74 year old Gerry Connolly over. I think Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is about 30 years old. And Pelosi, in a scene that you couldn't make up in Hollywood, was whipping votes for Connally to be ranking member of that committee from the hospital while being treated for a fall that she herself sustained two or three weeks ago. And on that same week another senior congressional official suffered his own fall. I think it was Mitch McConnell, if I remember. Right. On the same week. And it's like I can't even keep up with. I'm not going out of my way trying to find these things. They keep popping up, you know, and so I'm just trying to draw a line between all the points because it's clear that this is so pervasive. It's not a. These aren't one off instances.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah, I keep thinking about because I'm curious as to how this happens, why this happens. And part of it for me is that I think that we do this thing with politicians in which we ignore how old they are. I'll give you an example. I am aware that Bill Clinton is quite elderly, but in my head, Bill Clinton is still like Bill Clinton from like 1995. Now, I was 8 years old in 1995 and he was not elderly then. But I think that there's something about political figures where they get kind of frozen in amber. Bernie Sanders will always be Bernie Sanders of eight years ago. Donald Trump is Donald Trump of eight years ago. I think that we have this inability for political figures to age even when they're very clearly aging. You know, Nancy Pelosi's recovering from hip surgery and is currently walking with a walker. So why do you think we got to this place where so many people in Congress are so old?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Well, culturally there is a system of deference to members with more seniority. And in the past that has been something that it's not an official system, but it's kind of the rules of the road, so to speak, were, okay, you've been around the block for X number of years, let's give them the chair of the committee. But as they're getting older, I don't think there's been an attendant realization that, hey guys, maybe we should change this informal system that we have. Maybe this isn't serving us as well as it could be. But the inertia of that having been the way that it was handled, I think that plays into it. And then a second point I would make is that I agree with the point you're making. That they seem frozen in amber in our imaginations, but that is cultivated in part by them. I mean, I've had so many people that have worked in offices describing to me these members who are advanced in age talking about how they intentionally avoid doing media hits. They only do media hits that they can expect that they're going to be able to control the framing. I mean, to some extent that's true of any politician. But with respect to age, that allows them to project a certain image that is, let's say, not an accurate representation of what necessarily is going on behind the scenes. So in the case of Dianne Feinstein, who died in office, she had a coterie of aides that were going around trying to. It sounds crazy, but just trying to find a path for her to travel out of Congress so that media wouldn't stop her and question her and find out that she's not doing very well. So there's kind of a cover up.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah. And it was interesting though, because setting aside literally everything else, Vice President Kamala Harris is 60. The country elected Trump, who at 78 will be the oldest president ever sworn in. So are voters partly to blame for this? Are we wired to vote for and trust older elected officials?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Again, I would say that more time on earth would give you more time to accrue power, social capital, actual capital. And so that's always going to be an advantage. But I think there are a lot of other advantages that are being overlooked to being on these social media platforms that younger people exist on. Especially at this time, when you're seeing the demographic characteristics of the party is kind of up in the air. So clearly what you're saying is the case. There is just some advantages to being older. But part of it is that the media doesn't talk about the risks of running someone who's in their 80s. There's just so little coverage of it. For the reason that I described before, they don't want to alienate them, they don't want to lose access. They don't want to seem like jerks. I mean, I feel that.

[Jane Coston]

But I would also say. Yeah, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. I would also say that one of the challenges that we have is that gerontocracy impacts not just politics, but also media. And you see that with how long it takes to get political capital, how long it takes to get media capital, how long it takes to move up in media. By the time that you are the anchor of a TV show or you're doing really well at a newspaper or at an outlet in general, you're probably older at that point. And you mentioned Gerry Connolly beating Alexandria Ocasio Cortez for that House position. And I thought that that was such an interesting moment because it was so clear that not only is Jerry Connelly elderly, but he is also battling esophageal cancer. And it just seemed like a moment in which you see both parties, I would argue, don't really want younger people to lead. They want younger people involved. But I think that there's a sense of like, we'll let them fundraise, we'll let them talk a lot on the Internet, but we don't want them to run anything. So if you have both parties who don't want to let younger people lead, what can we really do to combat gerontocracy besides pointing out, hey, it's kind of weird that this member of Congress might be in a memory care facility?

[Ken Klippenstein]

Well, I would say that having monitored this fairly closely over the last couple months at least, I am seeing signs of a shift on the part of public opinion. But even in the case of Biden, that was something that, contrary to the sort of received wisdom about the debate having done him in, polling showed a majority of Democrats being uneasy about his age going back over a year prior to that debate. So this is something that's percolating, I think, in the general sort of public imagination, even if people in the halls of power aren't interested in hearing that. So I think we're really gonna have to, I don't know, I guess I feel a little bit, I feel less pessimistic about it than I would have if you'd asked me this question maybe two or three months ago.

[Jane Coston]

Ken, thank you so much for joining me again.

[Ken Klippenstein]

My pleasure.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Ken Klippenstein. He's an independent journalist covering national security on [e-mail] we'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. Most New Year's resolutions, especially the ones about health, fail. And they fail hard. But they don't have to. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, workouts, sleep and even stress management. All you have to do is breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs. Then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements. You can also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals so you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time. And Lumen will give you tips on how to keep you on top of your health game. Your metabolism controls pretty much everything your body does, so optimal metabolic health translates to a bunch of benefits, including easier weight management, improved energy levels, better fitness results, and better sleep. So if you want to start the new year right, go to lumen me wad to get 20% off your lumen that is L u m e n me wod for 20% off your purchase that is L u m e n Me wad for 20% off your purchase thank you Lumen for sponsoring this episode.

[Ken Klippenstein]

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[Jane Coston]

Keeping you close hey mom, you seen my toothbrush? I'm almost done with it.

[Ken Klippenstein]

Oh, maybe too close. Trade in and additional terms apply. See verizon.com for details.

[Brandon Gill]

Let's face it, the selection proved we're living on two different Internets, which has resulted in two different realities. Algorithms have trapped us in our own information bubbles, and as if things couldn't get weirder, Elon Musk is basically running the American government. Not ideal. I'm Jon Favreau, host of the Offline podcast with Max Fisher, and despite the name of the show, it's clear that none of us are actually offline. Definitely not me and Max. Every week we're breaking out of our digital echo chambers to better understand the right wing media machine and grabbing our shovels to rescue our fellow Americans who fallen down the rabbit hole that Elon Musk helped dig. We cover everything from the rise of the manosphere to the media personality shaping our feeds and our elections. It's a deep dive into the Internet, but without the trolls and the pop up ads. Doesn't that sound nice? Search offline, wherever you get your podcasts and on our YouTube channel now.

[Jane Coston]

And now the news headlines.

[Ken Klippenstein]

I intend to resign as party leader as Prime Minister after the party selects its next leader through a robust nationwide.

[Jane Coston]

Competitive process, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told reporters Monday he'll be stepping down after nearly a decade in the role. The decision comes amidst pressure from his own party to resign as the once popular prime minister faces increased public frustration over things like inflation and the cost of living. Sound familiar? Incumbent parties and candidates around the world have been falling left and right as voters look for an alternative in the face of rising costs. And Canada's opposition parties say they plan to trigger a general election by calling for a no confidence vote against Trudeau's Liberal Party when Parliament is back in session. Trudeau acknowledged his political reality.

[Ken Klippenstein]

This country deserves a real choice in the next election, and it has become clear to me that if I'm having to fight internal battles, I cannot be the best option in that election.

[Jane Coston]

Parliament had been set to return on January 27 but will now be suspended until March 24, giving the Liberal Party time to choose a new leader. Trudeau will stay on as prime minister until his replacement is chosen. Trump's request to postpone sentencing in his hush money case in New York was denied Monday. Justice Juan Merchan's decision came after Trump's lawyers asked for a delay while an appeals court weighed the decision that upheld Trump's conviction. Trump was convicted of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records last year. His sentencing is set for Friday. Marchan said last week it wouldn't be practicable to give Trump jail time since he'll be returning to the White House. Trump can still ask the appeals court for a delay. Also on Monday, a federal judge in New York City found Rudy Giuliani in contempt of court in his defamation case. Judge Louis Lyman ruled Giuliani failed to provide information about his assets to the Georgia election workers he defamed following the 2020 election. The workers won over $140 million in damages after suing Giuliani for spreading lies about them. Giuliani testified for a second day Monday in a contempt hearing about failing to comply with evidence requests. Lyman said Giuliani, quote, willfully violated a court order and attempted to delay proceedings. Democratic Congressman Rajakrishnamurthy of the House Select Committee on China asked Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen Monday for a briefing about a Chinese cyberhack on the department. During the attack, which was reported last month, Chinese hackers accessed U.S. treasury workstations and unclassified documents. In his letter to Yellen, Krishnamurthy says even unclassified information amounts to a devastating breach of national security. Tensions over cybersecurity between the US And China are already running high. Chinese authorities are criticizing the U.S. treasury this week for placing sanctions on a Beijing based cybersecurity company. The group allegedly played a role in hacking attacks against US Telecommunications infrastructure, which gave Chinese officials access to private text and phone conversations of an unknown number of Americans. The sanctions are unrelated to the treasury breach. The former Proud Boys chairman, convicted of orchestrating his group's attack on the U.S. capitol ahead of January 6, is asking Donald Trump for a presidential pardon. Enrique Tarrio is serving 22 years in federal prison for seditious conspiracy in connection with the insurrection. Even though Tarrio was not in D.C. on January 6, he was in fact already banned from the city by prosecutors for burning a Black Lives Matter banner. In a letter to Trump Monday, Tarrio's lawyers said Tarrio was, quote, nothing more than a proud American that believes in true conservative values. Tarrio did an interview with CNN after the riot, defending his actions.

[Ken Klippenstein]

I was celebrating and I'll tell you, I'll celebrate the moment that the government does fear the people.

[Jane Coston]

Tarrio's lawyer wrote to Trump that the government prosecuted Tarrio and other Proud Boy members for, quote, expressing their freedom of expression. And that's the news. One more thing. What are you doing right now while you listen to the show or watch it on YouTube? Are you doing the dishes? Walking your dog? Working out? Driving? When was the last time you did any of those things without a distraction? Don't ask me. I've been working out to episodes of Dateline for like six years now. I spend a lot of my life doing multiple things at once lest I ever for a second experience the worst thing in the entire world. Boredom. I remember what life was like before widely available high speed Internet because I am 37 years old and sometimes my back hurts for no reason. And what I remember is being bored. Being a kid is incredibly boring as you might recall, but the Internet solved that problem. We can never be bored. I don't think I've been legitimately bored since 2007 because the Internet is an endless font of stuff. But it's not as if I'm filling my alone time with learning new skills. I'm filling my alone time with true crime documentaries on YouTube and checking what the worst people on the Internet have to say on Twitter and substack. And not just what people say, but friends. I read the comments on what those people say. Apparently finding out what gutter misogynists have to say to one another is preferable to me ever experiencing not having something to think about. MSNBC host Chris Hayes has a new book coming out entitled the Siren's How Attention Became the world's most endangered resource. And he wrote a piece for the New York Times that argues boredom is a good thing. It's how we get to know our own minds. I texted him to ask what people can gain from boredom, the feeling I've spent the last 20 odd years trying to avoid. He said that boredom can offer inspiration, creative urges, and new ideas. And he told me that a lack of boredom paradoxically makes it easier for us to be bored. We can't stand stillness and we spend all of our time looking for diversions like the comment section on National Review articles. And by we, sadly, I mean me. It's a new year and a good time to think about ways we can all live better and do better for ourselves and others. And one thing I could do better is do the thing I hate. Be bored before we go it's been four years since the insurrection and just a few months since America reelected the guy responsible for it. So now seems like the perfect time to examine presidential power, its reach and its limits. Wait, there are limits, right? God, I hope so. This week on Strict Scrutiny, Leah, Melissa and Kate break down what presidential power actually looks like and how we've seen checks on it from sometimes very unexpected places. Tune in to this timely episode now only on the Strict Scrutiny feed. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, contemplate how Elon Musk has decided he's now very interested in British politics. And seriously, you can just do things, I guess, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how really you can just do things, you can just decide that today you are an expert in the Labor Party and tomorrow you are an expert in Bird Flag. And apparently if you are very rich, people will just go with it, which is sure something. Like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston, and maybe I'll become an expert in something too. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. We had production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.

[Kamala Harris]

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