Trump's Plan To Make Us Pay More

Summary

What a Day Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Processing...
Host: Jane Coaston
Release Date: November 19, 2024
Duration: Approximately 27 minutes

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1. President Trump's Tariff Policy: Economic Implications

The episode opens with host Jane Coaston discussing President Donald Trump's recent decision to implement substantial tariffs on imported goods, particularly targeting China. She highlights Trump's enthusiasm for tariffs, quoting him directly:

“The word tariff, properly used, is a beautiful word, one of the most beautiful words I've ever heard. It's music to my ears...”
— Donald Trump [00:52]

Coaston explains the potential adverse effects of these tariffs on American consumers and the broader economy. She cites the Peterson Institute for International Economics, which estimates that tariffs could cost the average U.S. household $2,600 annually:

“The widespread use of tariffs will not be good for us. Trump has promised to tax every single imported good from China at 60 to 100%, and according to the Peterson Institute for International Economics, tariffs will cost the average U.S. household $2,600 a year.”
— Jane Coaston [01:01]

To provide expert insight, Coaston interviews Stacey Vanek Smith, Senior Story Editor at Bloomberg Audio. Smith breaks down the mechanics of tariffs and their intended effects:

“Tariffs are meant to kind of get rid of that cost advantage. So let's say you put a big tariff on the space heater, and now the Chinese company has to charge $55 to turn a profit. We're probably going to buy the US space heater, but also suddenly, we're paying $50 for a space heater.”
— Stacey Vanek Smith [03:38]

Smith further elaborates on the interconnectedness of global trade and how indiscriminate tariffs could lead to higher prices across various products:

“Tariffs are going to affect all those things. So we're probably going to maybe pay more like $60 or $70 for our space heater.”
— Stacey Vanek Smith [05:12]

The discussion concludes with skepticism about the feasibility and wisdom of Trump's tariff strategy, considering the current economic climate and potential backlash from rising consumer prices.

2. Matt Gaetz Ethics Investigations: Ongoing Controversies

The podcast transitions to political controversies surrounding former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz. Jane Coaston refers to testimony from Florida attorney Joel Leppard, who represents two women accusing Gaetz of being paid for sexual relationships. Leppard reveals that one of his clients witnessed Gaetz engaging in a sexual encounter with a minor:

“She had sex with Representative Gaetz within minutes of her arrival. Later on ... [she] observed ... Representative Gaetz having sex with her friend who was 17 at the time.”
— Joel Leppard [13:18]

Despite Gaetz's denials, these allegations have persisted, leading to investigations by both the Justice Department and the House Ethics Committee. Coaston discusses House Speaker Mike Johnson's stance on the matter:

“He thinks that the report should be kept under wraps because it turns out the alleged sexual abuse of young women is just not a big deal anymore.”
— Mike Johnson [14:03]

The episode highlights the potential implications for Gaetz's political future, especially concerning his aspirations for higher office, such as Attorney General, which would require Senate confirmation.

3. Trump's Immigration Policies: Mass Deportation Plans

Jane Coaston delves into President Trump's evolving statements on immigration, specifically his proposals for mass deportations. Initially suggesting the use of the military to deport millions of immigrants, Trump's position appears inconsistent:

“If the message is we're here to deport your abuelita, that's not going to work well.”
— Donald Trump [15:59]

Republican lawmakers exhibit mixed reactions. Representative Tony Gonzalez criticizes the impracticality of indiscriminate deportations:

“Deporting someone's grandma just isn't going to work.”
— Tony Gonzalez [15:52]

Conversely, Representative Chip Roy advocates for aggressive deportation strategies:

“We need plans in place.”
— Chip Roy [16:16]

These conflicting viewpoints underscore the internal debates within the Republican Party regarding the execution and morality of such immigration policies. Additionally, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has filed a lawsuit seeking clarity on Trump's plans, emphasizing legal challenges ahead.

4. Election Updates: Concessions and Recounts Amidst Denialism

The episode provides an overview of the recent election outcomes, noting key race results and ongoing recounts. Republican Eric Hovde conceded the Wisconsin Senate race to Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin:

“A request for a recount would serve no purpose ... I've decided to concede the election.”
— Eric Hovdy [16:43]

However, in Pennsylvania, a recount is underway in the Senate race between Bob Casey and Dave McCormack, following controversial court rulings on ballot counting protocols:

“The state Supreme Court handed Republicans a win. It told all county election officials not to count mail-in ballots with date errors.”
— Jane Coaston [14:39]

Additionally, the podcast touches on the influence of social media on news consumption, citing a Pew Research Center report that 20% of Americans rely on social media influencers for their news, particularly among younger demographics and communities of color. Coaston encourages listeners to balance their information sources by supporting traditional journalism.

5. TikTok's Future in the U.S.: Legal Battles and Political Maneuvering

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the ongoing saga of TikTok in the United States. Jane Coaston explores the threats of a federal ban on TikTok, originally instated by President Biden, which mandates the app to sever ties with its Chinese parent company, ByteDance:

“If you have drafts, I don't know, I would save them. It's not necessarily that you would be fined or something if you had TikTok. It's mainly service providers wouldn't be able to allow US users to access it.”
— Priyanka Arabindi [22:07]

Coaston interviews Priyanka Arabindi, a TikTok expert, who discusses TikTok's legal challenges, including a federal lawsuit claiming the ban violates the First Amendment:

“They claim that shutting down TikTok violates users’ First Amendment rights ... TikTok does not share this US user info with the Chinese government.”
— Priyanka Arabindi [21:22]

The conversation also touches on President Trump's fluctuating stance on TikTok, suggesting possible maneuvers he might employ to reverse the ban, such as executive orders or legislative action, though experts remain skeptical about the feasibility of such changes without congressional support.

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Conclusion

In this episode of What a Day, Jane Coaston navigates through a complex array of topics, from Trump's aggressive tariff and immigration policies to high-profile political scandals and the precarious future of TikTok in the U.S. Through insightful interviews and detailed analysis, the podcast provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of current events shaping the American socio-political landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump [00:52]: “The word tariff, properly used, is a beautiful word, one of the most beautiful words I've ever heard. It's music to my ears...”

• Stacey Vanek Smith [03:38]: “Tariffs are meant to kind of get rid of that cost advantage...”

• Chip Roy [16:16]: “We need plans in place.”

• Priyanka Arabindi [22:07]: “It's mainly service providers wouldn't be able to allow US users to access it.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Trump's tariff policies could significantly increase the cost of goods for American consumers, potentially exacerbating economic strain amid existing inflation concerns.

• Ongoing investigations into Matt Gaetz's conduct may have lasting impacts on his political ambitions, reflecting broader issues of ethics within Congress.

• Trump's inconsistent immigration rhetoric reveals internal party tensions and raises questions about the feasibility of large-scale deportation plans.

• The influence of social media on news consumption is growing, highlighting the need for media literacy and sustained support for traditional journalism.

• TikTok remains at the center of a legal and political battle in the U.S., symbolizing the larger tensions between national security concerns and digital freedoms.

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Production Credits:

What a Day is produced by Crooked Media, recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor, with contributions from producers Raven Yamamoto, Michelle Eloy, and others. Theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.

Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Tuesday, November 19th. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a day. The show that is pouring one out for the mother of maga, Sarah Palin. Okay, mother of Maga is what someone on the Internet called her and then she shared it to complain about how she hasn't gotten nominated to any cabinet positions. But if it helps Sarah, I also haven't gotten nominated to any cabinet positions. On today's show, Trump makes a critical policy decision at 4am Maybe and TikTok will we still have it in 2025? Let's get into it.

[Donald Trump]

If you don't make your product here, then you will have to pay a tariff, a very substantial tariff when you send your product into the United States.

[Jane Coston]

If you paid any attention at all to President elect Donald Trump, you know how much he talked about tariffs on the campaign trail.

[Donald Trump]

The word tariff, properly used, is a beautiful word, one of the most beautiful words I've ever heard. It's music to my ears, but it.

[Jane Coston]

Turns out like overdone steak, diet Coke, cheating on your wife, and other things Trump enjoys. The widespread use of tariffs will not be good for us. Trump has promised to tax every single imported good from China at 60 to 100%, and according to the Peterson Institute for International Economics, tariffs will cost the average U.S. household $2,600 a year. That is not very beautiful. Even Speaker Mike Johnson isn't willing to buy into the tariff plan, or at least he wasn't when Jake Tapper asked him Sunday about Trump's promise to put at least a 10% tariff on all imported goods, like from anywhere.

[Mike Johnson]

Well, just like with immigration policy, I'm not going to put the cart before the horse. The president and I have talked about this as recently as yesterday, the use of tariffs in the economy and how that might be done. It will be a balancing act, as it always is. But he has some ideas, aggressive ideas to grow this economy again.

[Jane Coston]

But if you ask universally respected economist Hulk Hogan what he thinks, everything will be fine. Here he is on Fox News. But when it comes down to business, he's a businessman. You know, like that economic forum where he schooled that guy who didn't know a thing about tariffs. For the record, he did not school Bloomberg Editor in Chief John Micklethwait, who does know a thing about tariffs. Republican Representative Troy Nels from Texas is also all for these universal tariffs for very good reasons.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

If Donald Trump says tariffs work, tariffs work. Period. Because Donald Trump is really never wrong.

[Jane Coston]

Spoken like someone who definitely knows what a tariff is and definitely isn't part of a cult of personality. To help me try to understand what any of this means, I called up Stacey Vanek Smith. She's a senior story editor at Bloomberg Audio, and I think after two appearances on the show, can officially be called a friend of the Pod. Stacey Vanek Smith, welcome to what a Day.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

[Jane Coston]

Okay, let's start really simple. What is a tariff?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

A tariff is. It's just a tax on something that comes in from another country. So it can be like a lamp or a car or a space heater or pork chops or anything that comes in from another country. It's just a tax that the government can put on that product.

[Jane Coston]

And there are already lots of, even before Donald Trump, there were tariffs on things that we might not know that much about. So let's get into that, because Trump has obviously talked a huge game about tariffs.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is his thing.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah, it's a big thing. A thing he's very enthusiastic about. What is it that he is trying to do and how would it affect your normal, everyday American consumer like me, if he succeeds?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yes. Okay. This is this. It's like, you're right. It's his whole thing. And so the appeal of tariffs, the reason that Trump likes them, is that there's this idea that it encourages people to buy American goods. And it's true that they do do that. So if you think about, like, let's say you're buying, I don't know, I've been shopping for space heaters because it's freezing in my apartment right now. So I've been looking at space heaters. And if there's a space heater that's made in the U.S. that space heater company is having to pay us wages, us rent, us environmental regulation, all that stuff. So they have to charge a certain amount in order to turn a profit on their space heater. Well, if you, if you make the product in China, the average worker makes way less than the average worker here. So when these space heaters go on the market, the Chinese company has a huge cost advantage. If you and I are looking at space heaters, we're like going to buy the $30 space heater, not the $50 space heater. So tariffs are meant to kind of get rid of that cost advantage. So let's say you put a big tariff on the space heater, and now the Chinese company has to charge $55 to turn a profit. We're probably going to buy the US space heater, but also suddenly, we're paying $50 for a space heater. That's where the higher prices come in, and that's how it impacts us.

[Jane Coston]

Wouldn't the American company also be purchasing items to make the space heaters that might come from overseas and might also face taxes? So they would be paying more and then they would make the space heater more expensive, so everything would just get more expensive.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yes, that is such a great point, because we've really had, like, a movement towards free trade ever since the end of World War II. Part of the reason they put free trade in place was to prevent war from happening because they thought if you're trading with people, you're not going to be fighting with them. And so now that we're sort of looking at all these tariffs, everything's become so interconnected. I mean, iPhones make parts in, like, dozens of different countries. All the things that we use have parts and min, you know, minerals and products from all over the world. And you're absolutely right. Tariffs are going to affect all those things. So we're probably going to maybe pay more like 60 or $70 for our space heater.

[Jane Coston]

Now, that sounds terrible for our space heater needs, but so bad. Get a sweater for cold people like us. It's going to be a tough time. But I think this question is quickly becoming a major theme on the show. Can he actually do all of this? Can he do 100% tariffs on goods from China? And I think, more importantly, does he really want to, or is this, like, time for some Game Theory kind of nonsense?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Can he do it? Yes, absolutely. We saw him put a lot of tariffs in Place in 2016. That was a very different moment in our economy. Inflation wasn't a problem, and so that was just a very different situation. This time, though, it's interesting. You make a great point. He's kind of painted himself into a corner here, I think, because if he puts tariffs like that in place, which he can absolutely do, everything is going to get a lot more expensive. And one of the reasons people think that he won the election was because people are so upset about rising prices. So the way around it would be to have much more targeted tariffs. A lot of leaders around the world will pick, like, enemy countries and they'll put big tariffs on, like, some specialty products or luxury products is a really common thing to do. But Trump is talking about totally across the board tariffs. I think 60 to 100% on goods from China, 10 to 20% on goods from everywhere else. If he does that, prices are going to Go way up. And I mean, his response to that has been that companies will move their operations here, but that's gonna mean they're paying American wages and rent again. So there's no way around the higher prices. If he puts these tariffs in place, I don't know how he's gonna do that. I think the way around it, for Trump, the game theory would be to pick and choose and make big, splashy announcements around the tariffs he's putting in place, while not actually putting that many tariffs in place.

[Jane Coston]

It seems like this is less a battle between, like, left and right, because we know that Biden kept some of the tariffs that Trump had put into place.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah.

[Jane Coston]

And so it seems like. I understand that this is an effort to boost American manufacturing, but if American manufacturing is also reliant on products with tariffs, it just seems like this is all just a very bad idea. Am I right? Is this just a very bad idea?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's bad for. Yes. I mean, I think so. This is my personal opinion. And tariffs can be really good. Like, tariffs aren't always bad. It can protect industries. It can have some good effects. But what it does do is make things more expensive, which brings everybody's quality of life down, because that just means you and I can afford less stuff. So we are having to pinch pennies a lot more. And this has happened. I mean, Argentina put really big, sweeping tariffs in place like, a few decades ago, and it completely destroyed their economy. They said everything had to be made inside of Argentina, including, like, smartphones and BlackBerries started trying to make phones in the country, and iPhone left completely and prices went up and quality went down, and they're still trying to pull their way out of that and all the inflation that it contributed to.

[Jane Coston]

That sounds bad. So what would be. I mean, I feel like it seems like adding to rising prices will not make the electorate happy. So, Stacy, what imported goods should we start stockpiling?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, I mean, for me, personally, coffee. I'm. Yeah, it's already gotten so expensive. Coffee, which I like to drink real. Like, I like. I like strong coffee. So that is, of course, the first thing that comes into my mind. We import so many things. I don't even know what wouldn't be more expensive, because even like a quote unquote American product, like an iPhone, like every. Like you said, every component in that iPhone almost, is from another place, so it's going to get a lot more expensive. Stockpile, eggs, chocolate, coffee, everything. Absolutely.

[Jane Coston]

Great, great. Okay, I will. My closet full of chocolate coffee and space heaters is going to raise some questions, but in two years everyone's going to be saying, I wish I had been stockpiling.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

You were so smart.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

Exactly.

[Jane Coston]

Coffee, chocolate and space heaters. Stacy, thank you so much for joining me.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Absolutely. Thank you.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Stacey Vanek Smith, Senior Story Editor at Bloomberg Audio. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads what a day. It's brought to you by the Zero Emission Transportation Association Education Fund. The Zeta Education Fund wants Americans to know about the positive economic impact the EV and battery supply chain is having on our communities. Like how it's already created 240,000 jobs and attracted $177 billion of investment. More than a million EVs were sold in the US last year and there are currently over 200,000 public charging locations in the United States. Join forces with the Zeta Education Fund and help spread the facts about what a transition to EVs means for the future of America. Get on board@zeta zeta.org join what a Day is brought to you by Sling Seems like things change every 20 minutes. It's hard to keep up. That's why you should watch Sling. They provide the best value for your essential news channels. With Sling, you get all of your favorite news channels at the best price. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, Hannity, Anderson Cooper, 360, the Rachel Maddow show, and more for just $40 a month. So yeah, with the election coverage and everything else happening, you can get news that will raise your blood pressure at prices that won't get the best price on news about what's going on in the world. Then say that's what's going on in the world. And it's not just news. Check this out. Sling has the live sports, news and entertainment channels you love and less of the ones you don't. You save hundreds of dollars. Sling lets you choose and customize your channel lineup so you can choose the channels you actually like. Sling's cloud DVR lets you record your shows to watch on your schedule. There's no complex technology, no long term contracts, and no hidden rigmarole. I need to be able to watch football and I need to be able to watch football on my schedule. That's why I love Sling. Get rewarded for watching your favorite news channels. Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com now to learn more and get started. That's sling.com now sling.com now what a day is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and state. For over 75 years, Americans United for Separation of Church and State has tirelessly defended your right to live as yourself and believe as you choose. From protecting LGBTQIA rights and marriage equality to safeguarding reproductive freedom in our public schools, church, state, separation is at the heart of our most vital freedoms. Americans United fights for every individual's freedom to believe as they choose, so long as they don't harm others. Join the fight today at au.org crooked and now the news head of lines.

[Joel Leppard]

She arrived at the party. She had sex with Representative Gaetz within minutes of her arrival. Later on, when she was walking out to the pool area, she observed to her right, Representative Gaetz having sex with her friend who was 17 at the time.

[Jane Coston]

That's Florida attorney Joel Leppard speaking with CBS News Major Garrett. In an interview that aired Monday, Leppard represents two women who told the House Ethics Committee that they were paid to have sex with former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz. The attorney says that one of his clients also witnessed Gaetz having sex with a third woman, who says she was 17 at the time. EW Gaetz has denied all wrongdoing, but the misconduct allegations have followed him for years and led to investigations by both the Justice Department and the House Ethics Committee. The DOJ concluded its investigation without bringing any charges, but the Ethics Committee kept going. It's scheduled to meet Wednesday and could vote on whether to release its report on Gaetz. House Speaker Mike Johnson said late last week he thinks the report should be kept under wraps because it turns out the alleged sexual abuse of young women is just not a big deal anymore. On cnn, he explained his view on releasing the report.

[Mike Johnson]

Matt Gaetz resigned from Congress. He is no longer a member. There's a very important protocol and tradition and rule that we maintain that the House Ethics Committee's jurisdiction does not extend to non members of Congress. I think that would be a Pandora's box.

[Jane Coston]

But if Gaetz is to become the next attorney general, he'll almost certainly need to be confirmed by the Senate. And many senators, even some Republicans, have expressed interest in the report's contents. Donald Trump declared Monday that he would, in fact try to use the military as part of his plans to mass deport millions of immigrants. Well, technically, at 4:03am Eastern Time, he retreats someone else saying that he would declare a national emergency and use the military to deport immigrants, and then wrote, quote, true, but what this actually means is unclear, as in, will Donald Trump Mass. Deport 11 million people after interning them in camps, which the American Immigration Council estimates would cost $300 billion? And be absolutely insane? Because no matter how many times Trump says he wants to deport millions of people, his closest allies keep saying he doesn't actually mean that. Or maybe he does. Here's Speaker Mike Johnson telling Jake Tapper on Sunday that the administration would focus on dangerous individuals.

[Mike Johnson]

I think what the president's talking about is beginning with the dangerous persons that we know are here. There are criminals, known criminals. There are known terrorists in the country. There are some who have been apprehended for committing violent crimes after they've come across the border illegally.

[Jane Coston]

And here's Representative Tony Gonzalez of Texas telling ABC's Martha Raditz that deporting someone's grandma just isn't going to work.

[Donald Trump]

If the message is we're here to deport your abuelita, that's not going to work well.

[Jane Coston]

But then Representative Chip Roy, a Republican immigration hawk, said that actually the US should be deporting grandma and a lot of other people. They all need to be deported and they need to be deported almost on day one.

[Chip Roy]

We need plans in place.

[Jane Coston]

It's no wonder then that the ACLU filed a lawsuit on Monday seeking more details on to put it bluntly, what the hell Donald Trump actually plans to do. Election Day was two weeks ago, but the votes are still being counted and the concession speeches are still coming in. On Monday, Republican Eric Hovdy conceded to Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin in the Wisconsin Senate race. He did it in a video on Twitter.

[Eric Hovdy]

A request for a recount would serve no purpose because you will just be recounting the same ballots regardless of their integrity. As a result. And my desire to not add to political strife through a contentious recount, I've decided to concede the election.

[Jane Coston]

The Associated Press called the race for Baldwin the day after the election. The latest vote tally shows for beating Hovde by little less than a point. But in the era of Republican election denialism, Hovde refused to concede for weeks, citing debunked claims about voting irregularities in Milwaukee. Over in Pennsylvania, the state is getting ready for a recount of ballots in the Senate race between Democratic incumbent Bob Casey and his Republican challenger, Dave McCormack. On Monday, the state Supreme Court handed Republicans a win. It told all county election officials not to count mail in ballots with date errors. The court made the same ruling ahead of the election. And in the House, five races still haven't been called. Two are in California, where ballots are still being counted. Two others in Iowa and Ohio are too close to call. The final uncalled race is in Alaska, which uses ranked choice voting if no candidate gets more than 50% of the vote. A new report released on Monday found that 20% of Americans get their news from social media influencers, mostly on Twitter, the platform I Refuse to Call X. The Pew Research center reviewed posts made by social media users across the political spectrum with at least 100,000 followers. Basically all of those progressive and conservative giants were posting those viral clips of campaign rallies, press conferences and newscasts you see every morning. Researchers were specifically looking at popular content from this past summer, a high traffic time for posting around the election. And they found that young people, lower income adults and people of color were more likely to get their news from influencers. Folks who were surveyed said that popular accounts like these helped them better understand current events. And look, there's nothing wrong with getting your news on social media if it helps keep you in the know amid all the chaos. But support journalism too. Click those links that take you off the app to great reporting and analysis from folks like us, please. And that's the news. One more thing. Remember that whole crusade lawmakers launched against TikTok citing concerns about the app's Chinese parent company ByteDance? How Democrats and Republicans joined forces claiming that their ties to China posed a threat to national security and the American way of life and probably apple pie too. There was that whole congressional hearing about it where lawmakers grilled TikTok's CEO. Dozens of Republican led states moved to ban the app from government issued devices. And it all came to a head in April when President Biden signed a federal law that gave TikTok an cut ties with ByteDance by January or say bye bye to their US market. But Trump could actually get in the way of that when he assumes office. He said on the campaign trail that he would reverse a ban on TikTok. I personally would like to know if my favorite makeup influencers will be taken away from me, leaving me bereft and without contour. So I called up our TikTok aficionado, Priyanka Arabindi. Priyanka, welcome back to what a Day.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be back.

[Jane Coston]

So I remember because it was like 10 seconds ago when Trump wanted to ban TikTok during his first presidency and now he's saying he's against banning it. He promised to save the app in September. What's the latest there? What do we know about his plans for the app at this moment. Given that he is very mercurial.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

It's very much concepts of a plan at this point. Not really clear what he's going to do to save TikTok, just that he has said it. But you know, when we take a step back, he originally was on Congress's side here. He for the same exact reasons. He thought that, you know, the Chinese government's potential access to American user information posed a national security threat. He wanted to force a sale to an American company. But his change of heart very coincidentally happened right around the same time he met with a Republican mega donor who just happened to own a huge chunk of ByteDance. He says crazy.

[Jane Coston]

It's crazy how that happens.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

He says that they didn't talk about TikTok at all, but I don't know. Color me a little bit skeptical.

[Jane Coston]

So as you mentioned, President Biden signed a federal law earlier this year ordering TikTok to cut ties with ByteDance by mid January. But TikTok, along with a bunch of content creators on the app, filed a federal lawsuit earlier this year claiming the law is unconstitutional. What's their argument here?

[Priyanka Arabindi]

Yeah, so their argument hinges entirely on the First Amendment. They claim that shutting down TikTok violates users First Amendment rights. It would be akin to basically not letting Americans publish content on foreign owned media outlets. And they also say that because this user base is so broad, 170 million Americans, this supposed violation would be really widespread. And they also in this lawsuit go on to say that it wouldn't be possible for ByteDance to divest without this technology. TikTok wouldn't work the same way. And they've repeatedly tried to reiterate that TikTok does not share this US user info with the Chinese government.

[Jane Coston]

What happens if TikTok loses this case? Is the app just going to disappear from our phones? Who would it be sold to? What would happen?

[Priyanka Arabindi]

Whoever loses that case is expected to appeal to the Supreme Court. So this is not the end of this. Because this is so widespread, 170 million American users and a First Amendment case, the Supreme Court very likely to take this up. As for what a potential ban would actually look like, it's actually targeting app stores. So you wouldn't be able to update your app, you wouldn't be able to get the app anymore on your app store. If you have drafts, I don't know, I would save them. It's not necessarily that you would be fined or something if you had TikTok. It's mainly service providers wouldn't be able to allow US users to access it. And these app stores wouldn't allow US Users to download it anymore. As for who could potentially buy TikTok, a little unclear. Previously there were talks about former Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, kind of like rallying this group of rich investors who might want to do something here. There's been talks about some private equity firms kind of banding together and maybe trying to pursue this, but very unclear. We are running up to that, to that date, January 19th. That is one day before Trump's scheduled inauguration. So a lot to be seen here.

[Jane Coston]

What could Trump do to reverse the ban? Could he, quote, unquote, save TikTok?

[Priyanka Arabindi]

I mean, he could try to issue an executive order to reverse the ban. Most experts say that this wouldn't work. Most experts say that to get rid of the ban, you would need Congress to act on it. Could ask Congress to repeal the law. Unclear how that'll go because this had bipartisan support. He could ask his new attorney general, potentially Matt Gaetz, to not enforce this law. He could also, as part of this law, grant a one time 90 day extension to ByteDance and TikTok if they're in the process of a legitimate sale. If the President determines that this is in progress, he could give them some more time to do it. Unclear how he might be able to finagle that if something isn't actually in the works. The Trump team has not said anything about this, but we will all be watching. I personally will be. What am I gonna scroll on without TikTok?

[Jane Coston]

You'll have to go back to Instagram reels. It's gonna be very sad. No, it's gonna be very sad.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

Horrid.

[Jane Coston]

Priyanka, thank you so much for coming.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

Thank you for having me.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with crooked correspondent Priyanka Arabic. Before we go, let's face it, this election proves that we're living in two completely different Internets. Algorithms trap us in echo chambers shaping what we see and believe. While Elon Musk holds more power over democracy than most politicians. Each week on Offline, Max Fisher and Jon Favreau break free from those bubbles to better understand the far right and mega movements while diving into the wild world of digital politics. This week they tackle the interminable who is the liberal Joe Rogan debate? Because, yes, it's still a thing. Tune into offline, not with its own YouTube channel. Search offline. Wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe Leave a Review Remember the time that Republicans desperately wanted Sarah Palin to run for president and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how to stock up on fine leather goods and coffee and chocolate like we're the God dang East India Company like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Costen and seriously, I do not like tariffs. I don't want to spend more money. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. We had a production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.

[Chip Roy]

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[Jane Coston]

Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

I'm Poet Syed Jones. And I'm producer Zach Stafford and we are the hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check.

[Jane Coston]

On Vibe Check, we talk about everything. News, culture and entertainment and how it all feels.

[Priyanka Arabindi]

That's right, we talk about any and everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. Yes, indeed. And it doesn't stop there. We have got a lot to say, so join our group, chat, come to life, follow and listen to Vibe Check. Wherever you get your podcasts.