A (4:03)

Yeah, it's interesting because Keir Starmer is not in the Epstein files, which, you know, what a titan of morality. But he appointed Mandelson even though he knew he had a connection to Epstein. So what do we know about what went into his appointment? How did he get the job in the first place?

B (4:23)

Well, this is quite sad, actually, but apparently insiders are saying the reason he got this job and became this close confidant of Starmer and the Starmer project was because he showed up. You know, you have to imagine that Keir Starmer won a resounding victory, but not because of his great vision, just because everyone was sick of the Conservatives. And actually, a lot of us have been sitting here thinking, well, the real Slim Shady or the real Keir Starmer? God, I'm really showing my age now, aren't I, Will?

A (4:49)

The real Keir Starmer. I was right there with you. Thank you. Okay, this is a millennial podcast for millennials.

B (4:55)

We are here and people have Been wondering who Keir Starmer is. When will it show up? When will his vision show up? The fact of the matter is, is Mandelson sidled up to him and said, look, I'm very well respected. I was instrumental in the Blair government. People still harp on about the Blair government because it was the greatest victory for the Labour Party after a really long time with the cons, and he kind of fell for it. What he brought Mandelson was experience and also this reputation. He had a nickname, the Prince of Darkness, of being a strategic maverick. Obviously. Now, that nickname, the Prince of Darkness, has some very unpleasant undertones to it.

A (5:29)

But the fact that I heard Prince of Darkness and I'm like, unless you're Ozzy Osbourne, that's not good at all.

B (5:36)

No, no. Poor Ozzy Osbourne. Another man whose reputation has been besmirched in all of this, who did nothing wrong. But, yeah, so Starmer had a vacancy. I think he had a vacancy for a. And this man filled it. And actually, perhaps if he had his own ideology and his own belief system, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

A (5:53)

Starmer actually fired Mandelson back in September after learning he was closer to Epstein than he let on because he sent Epstein a letter about how he was his, quote, best pal, which was featured in Epstein's 50th birthday book, a book made in hell. But people are still, as you've mentioned, calling on Starmer to resign. Is this really about Mandelson or is this just because people are tired of Keir Starmer?

B (6:16)

Well, look, I mean, Keir Starmer is enormously unpopular, seriously unpopular. So I guess you could say it was the straw that broke the camel's back, but nonetheless. So in this latest drop, not only is there a horrible picture of Peter Madison in his pants, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I'm not in my pants with anyone unless I know them quite well.

A (6:37)

Yeah. And for those people watching and listening who have not spent years of their life watching Britbox programs, when you say pants, you mean underwear?

B (6:46)

That is correct, yes. So I think there was this strong visual image that he had been lying about how close he was. I think we all knew that he had been lying, hence his, you know, first sacking. But also there was this story, these emails that had come out that said that Peter Mandelson, at a time of the global financial crisis, when the UK was really on its knees, was essentially giving insider information to Epstein, which would of course be very valuable for a man in his position. So that's been the nature of the accusation, which, you know, is tant amount to something very, very, very serious. So I think that it is fair that Starmer has this criticism, but he was already unpopular and this is the straw to break the camel's back.

A (7:26)

So the Prime Minister might lose his job because he appointed the wrong person. By comparison here in the US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick reportedly visited Epstein island with his family in 2012 after claiming in 2005 that he thought Epstein was disgusting and never wanted to see him again. And only a few Democrats are calling for his resignation. More should be because ew. Why do you think this is getting so much attention in the UK now when it feels like American politicians and businessmen? Yeah, we're talking about it a lot, but people are barely getting what seems to me to be a slap on the wrist.

B (8:00)

I mean, I think it's a really good point and I think it is a unique problem to the Labour Party. If this was happening in the Conservatives, I do wonder if there would be quite as much Ferrari. But that is the issue of being a progressive. You are always held to a higher standard and you should be. I think every. Everyone should be held to those same standards. But it doesn't change the fact, particularly in this country where you've got a kind of right leaning press, that anyone that is associated with labor does need to be held to a higher standard. Starmer would have known that anyway. So you could even just say this was like a rookie mistake or a naive mistake. I think also there is a sense that, you know, and I mean this in the kindest way, British people enjoy thinking. We're not like the Americans. We enjoy it. We're a very small rainy nation with no economic power and really nothing going on except for Great British Bake off.

A (8:46)

And maybe a day Midsummer murders and Midsummer murders.

B (8:50)

Well, that is nice that you watch that.

C (8:51)

That is.

B (8:52)

That is very nice.

A (8:53)

You will always have Midsummer murders.

B (8:55)

Listen, our entire GDP is Tom Hardy and maybe Tom Hiddleston. And I think we know that deep down we are increasingly irrelevant country but we like the idea that we're not as balmy as those over the way. And I think actually, you know, you see all the British names embroiled in this Richard Branson as well, you know this. They're coming out and the sleaze and the boys club and the international network of it. I think it has rattled people and made people feel like God. Actually we're just like them really.

A (9:24)

You've mentioned the Royal formerly known as Prince Andrew who I think has been kicked out of multiple homes. Now, he was one of the first people we saw very, very slowly see repercussions. And on Monday, Buckingham palace said King Charles III is ready to, quote, support UK police investigating his brother for allegedly sending trade reports to epstein1. Why were all these people emailing Epstein everything? And also, how big of a deal is this for the Royal Family?

B (9:53)

Pure clarity. I am a Republican. I don't like the monarchy. I don't see the point of it. I'm not a fan of it.

A (10:00)

Right.

B (10:00)

So I accept that. I'm maybe a bit too willing to see that everyone's coming my way, and maybe that's not actually the case. But since the Queen died, there's been a cooling of feeling towards the monarchy. You know, our parents had relationships to the Queen. You know, she was this figure. We don't have the same relationship to the King. Previously, Prince Charles was just an. On running joke about his, like, various sexual letters he would send to the now Queen about being her tampon or whatever it was. You know, Britain's a weird country. But in fairness to King Charles, he has contained it both physically and literally. Not only has he come out saying he will support any investigations, although I would say maybe a little bit too slow, which has been negative for him in terms of public consensus. But physically, he has said that he is going to keep Andrew on some grounds in some building of the many grounds that he has for his own mental safety, apparently, because he's, you know, a mess and a liability. So he's, you know, kind of in his own way, saying, well, I don't want him to go to prison, but I will put him in this gilded cage for a while. And I think that that is showing an amount of responsibility and that may rescue this very weird institution we call the Royal Family. I mean, people are talking about maybe King Charles should abdicate over this. He hasn't been, you know, forthcoming enough with his condemnation. But who would that leave? Prince William? Have you seen him? I'm not. I'm not exactly sure I'm gonna get radical, inspiring leadership out of Prince William. No offense to the Prince.

A (11:30)

You mentioned the backlash. Is this fallout over Starmer? Is this the result of public pressure? Is there a major movement within the government itself? Because it seems like. It's not like the Tories are doing great either. Like, where is this measure of accountability coming from? And how do we get some.

B (11:47)

Well, I mean. Well, that's very nice that you. You look to us and think, oh, gosh, look, at them doing accountability.

A (11:52)

That's actually you guys yell at each other in Parliament. I don't know, it just seems nice we should start doing that.

B (11:58)

Oh, I so wish that was the case. I think we're all deluded, basically. We're all going around with like knives in our pocket, but we say it in Shakespearean language so we think it's okay, I guess. But I mean, we're still shanking each other. Rest ass. I actually just want to come back to something that has been really on my mind recently and I'm sure you must have encountered the same thing. There's a lot of people who are disengaged and disaffected about politics and they will often say the same thing. They're all the same. And as a progressive, I have found myself, despite being very disappointed with the Labour Party and other progressive parties, I have still found myself being like, that's not quite right, that's not quite right, that it's all the same. But an instance like this has really hardened that feeling because fundamentally it was an international boys club, a rich people's boys club, and there were Labour Party politicians in it, right? And they were willing to put that network before country, as Mandelson proved when he was willing to leak state secrets to this man. So I think that is something that is really, really scary. And I think what's coming next in the uk, particularly with the rise of what I would call the far right, we have our own version of Donald Trump, Nigel Farage. I'm very scared about what's coming next and actually how this feeling that the kind of main parties cannot be trusted. Well, we, we better give someone else a go. And that someone else obviously is not only the most establishment person ever, but has created this image of being an outsider and it's very scary and will do whatever they want.

A (13:28)

Coco, thank you so much for joining me.

B (13:31)

No, my pleasure. And I hope it gets better for you and for me.

A (13:37)

That was my conversation with Coco Kahn, co host of Crooked Media's Pod Save the uk. Believe it or not, there's a lot of news left to cover. Because these days, what a Day is not just the name of our show, it's how we feel every time we close our laptops. If you feel the same, make sure you subscribe. Leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple podcasts and tell your friends or watch us on YouTube. We'll be back after some ads. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. No one has it all figured out whether you're married, dating or single, everyone is trying to find their way and therapy can help. Relationships take work and therapy can help you identify what's weighing down your connections and make the load a little lighter. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US and BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 years of experience and industry leading Match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com wad that's betterhelp.com wad what a day is brought to you by Bilt. I don't like paying rent, and I bet you don't either, but BILT makes it feel a little better. BILT is a loyalty program for renters that rewards you monthly with points and exclusive benefits in your neighborhood. With bilt, every rent payment earns you points that can be used towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and so much more. And now BILT members can earn points on mortgage payments for the first time. That means you can get rewarded wherever you live and unlock exclusive benefits from more than 45,000 restaurants, fitness studios, pharmacies and other neighborhood partners. Personally, I'd redeem my points for fitness classes, gift cards, even a credit on my rent. It's simple. Paying rent is better with bilt. And now owning a home can be better with Bilt too. Earn rewards and get something back wherever you live. Join the loyalty program for renters at joinbilt.com wad that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com waad make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

C (15:51)

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A (16:59)

Here'S what else we're following today. Head of Lines.

D (17:05)

What President Trump and the prime minister have accomplished together is really visionary. Peace is not made by cautious people. Peace is not made by people who are too focused on the past. Pieces made by people who are focused on the future.

A (17:18)

That's Vice President Jody Vance in Yerevan, Armenia, describing President Donald Trump as a person focused on the future, which I assume means he is describing someone else entirely. Vance became the first sitting US Vice president or president to visit Armenia on Monday. He was there to advance a peace deal between Armenia and Azerbaijan to end nearly 40 years of fighting over the Nagorno Karabakh territory. Vance traveled to Yerevan as part of an agreement signed by both countries to sign a peace treaty. Yes, an agreement to sign an agreement. It's like concepts of a peace treaty. Vance's trip was intended to show US Support for peace. He said that America will be investing in Armenia's infrastructure and will export advanced computer chips and surveillance drones. Vance will now travel to Azerbaijan in hopes of turning the concept of a peace treaty into real peace. Stay tuned. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to meet with President Trump in Washington tomorrow. Netanyahu's office announced a visit in a post online over the weekend, noting that the leaders will discuss negotiations with Iran. The US And Iran held indirect talks last week in Oman over Tehran's nuclear program. Netanyahu's office said, quote, the prime minister believes that all negotiations must include limiting the ballistic missiles and ending support for the Iranian axis. And let's not forget that a short war broke out last summer when Israel tried to destroy Iran's nuclear program, but the US didn't want to be left out and decided to intervene. Striking Iranian nuclear sites.

E (18:49)

We have 10,000 new ICE enforcement officers are going to be hired in the coming days, so we know that we're going to continue to arrest the worst of the worst off of the streets of America's sanctuary cities and across the nation.

A (19:02)

That was Department of Homeland security spokesperson Trisha McLaughlin on Fox News last November, using the Trump administration's favorite phrase. So is ICE arresting the worst of the worst? Well, a new report from CBS News found that less than 14% of people arrested by ICE in the first year of Trump's second term had violent criminal records. According to an internal DHS document obtained by CBS. That's fewer than 56,000 of the nearly 400,000 people arrested. What's more, the document shows that 40% do not have any criminal record, because, of course, they don't. And speaking of DHS, officials at ICE, Customs and Border Protection, and U.S. citizenship and Immigration Services are scheduled to testify before the House Committee on Homeland Security today. The hearing comes as Congress debates funding for DHS amid the Trump administration's deadly immigration crackdown. The deadline to fund DHS and avoid a partial departmental shutdown is Friday at midnight. A shutdown would not impact immigration enforcement funded through Trump's big Republican spending law debacle disaster adventure, but it would impact other parts of the agency. Agency like tsa, fema, the Coast Guard and Secret Service. You know, the stuff that isn't totally horrifying. And that's the news. One more thing. Let's talk about Steve Bannon. He is the multiple shirt wearing former investment banker and convicted felon who has spent the last decade or so claiming to be the Pied Piper for a global populist movement. He was President Trump's campaign chairman during the 2016 election and chief strategist during his first term. That is, until Trump fired him for, among other things, repeatedly giving press interviews in which he made himself sound more important than he actually was. Actually, that's pretty much the main thing to know about Steve Bannon. He thinks really, really, really highly of himself. According to Axios, he even wants to run for president in 2028. But he also thinks Trump should run for an illegal third term. Here he is speaking with the Economist late last year.

F (21:13)

Well, he's going to get a third term. So Trump 28. Trump is going to be president at 28. And people just ought to get accommodated with that.

E (21:20)

So what about the 22nd Amendment?

F (21:23)

There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan. And President Trump will be the president in 28.

A (21:31)

Let's be clear here. There is no plan. And as for Bannon himself running for president, he may have run into a problem. Okay, Besides the no one wants President Steve Bannon problem, based on newly released documents from the Department of Justice Steve Bannon's entire pro populism, anti elite shtick was created in part by the most elite of elites, Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, according to the many, many, many emails between the two men, Epstein helped Bannon plan a populist takeover of Europe, with Bannon asking the convicted sex offender for advice on how to talk about Trump's trade policies and complimenting Epstein's, quote, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant ideas. Bannon consoled Epstein about the bad press surrounding his, you know, many, many, many crimes, writing that someone must be running a, quote, op or operation on him. Bannon was even planning to take their friendship public after the Netflix documentary Jeffrey Filthy Rich was two plan to make a pro Epstein documentary. In fact, DOJ documents show they were texting about that documentary the day Epstein was arrested in 2019 on federal sex trafficking charges. Now, the Bannon documentary on Epstein isn't new information. Roughly two hours of footage of interviews between Bannon and Epstein were released last year. Check it out if you want to watch two horrifyingly bad people talk about the soul and ethics and how Jesus Christ never wrote anything down. I am not joking, but the extent of just how involved Epstein was in Bannon's political operation was new information, and it appears to have surprised a big swath of the American right. Let's be honest, it's not surprising Steve Bannon isn't a populist. He's a bullshitter who helped get the biggest bullshitter of all time into the White House. And when it came down to it, Bannon didn't want to fight the elites. He wanted to manipulate them with the help of a convicted sex offender. Before we go, if you liked hearing Coco on today's show, make sure to check out Pod Save the uk Each week, Coco and co host Nish Kumar give you your fix of political news, big ideas, and a shot of inspiration. Tune in to Pod Save the UK wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review. Celebrate the wedding you watched during Bad Bunny's super bowl halftime performance. Because, yes, that was a real wedding. Then tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the couple originally invited Bad Bunny to their wedding, but then Bad Bunny was like, I have a way cooler idea. Like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston, and according to the groom's Instagram stories, he said the best part of the night was, quote, getting a wife. Good answer. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Foer. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters and Matt Burr. Our senior producer is Erika Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Kanter. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

G (25:16)

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A (25:54)

Yeah, clothed.

G (25:55)

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H (26:15)

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