Every Child Left Behind feat. Sec. John King

Summary

What a Day: Episode Summary - "Every Child Left Behind feat. Sec. John King"

Release Date: March 12, 2025
Host: Jane Coaston
Guest: John King, Former Secretary of Education

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1. Introduction

In the March 12th episode of What a Day, host Jane Coaston delves into pressing issues surrounding the U.S. Department of Education. The episode, titled "Every Child Left Behind," features a compelling interview with John King, the former Secretary of Education under President Barack Obama and current Chancellor of the State University of New York (SUNY) System.

2. Department of Education Workforce Cuts

The episode opens with alarming news from the Department of Education (DOE). On Tuesday, the DOE announced a significant reduction in its workforce, laying off approximately half of its employees through deferred resignations, buyouts, and outright firings. This move is portrayed as part of the Trump administration's broader agenda to diminish the role of the DOE.

John King emphasizes the severity of these cuts:

"It's going to be terrible for students and families." ([02:51])

King discusses the DOE's critical functions, including funding for low-income schools, services for students with disabilities, Pell Grants, and the management of student loans. The reduction in staff raises concerns about the sustainability and effectiveness of these programs.

3. Implications of Department Reduction

Jane Coaston probes into the potential consequences of dismantling or severely weakening the DOE. While education is predominantly a state-managed initiative, the federal role is crucial for ensuring equity and protecting civil rights within the education system.

John King articulates the risks:

"The federal government plays a key role that is equity focused." ([04:33])

He underscores the importance of federal oversight in preventing discrimination and ensuring access to education for marginalized groups. Without the DOE, services for students with disabilities, English learners, and protections against educational discrimination could be jeopardized.

King warns that dismantling the DOE would have far-reaching effects on the nation's competitiveness and workforce readiness:

"The United States depends on equitable access for all to education. That's how we're going to prepare the workforce we need." ([06:02])

4. Higher Education Funding and Administration Actions

The conversation shifts to higher education, highlighting recent actions by the Trump administration that target universities. Specifically, the removal of $400 million in federal funding from Columbia University due to its handling of pro-Palestinian protests and the ongoing investigation of 60 schools for alleged anti-Semitic discrimination.

John King critiques these measures as political weaponization:

"It's the weaponization of the Office for Civil Rights." ([08:29])

He explains that such actions undermine academic freedom and research capabilities, potentially leading to the shutdown of institutions that rely heavily on federal funds. The withdrawal of support for programs like Pell Grants and student loans poses a threat to millions of students' ability to access higher education.

5. Political Context and Bipartisan Challenges

Jane Coaston and John King discuss the historical and current political landscape surrounding the DOE. King reflects on his tenure during a more bipartisan era, contrasting it with the current administration's stance.

John King notes the shift in Republican attitudes:

"Things have changed dramatically with the advent of the really the Trump political movement." ([06:41])

He points out that previous efforts to reform the DOE, such as the Every Student Succeeds Act, enjoyed bipartisan support, a stark contrast to today's more polarized environment.

When addressing Secretary Linda McMahon's role and the administration's efforts to circumvent Congress in shutting down the DOE, King asserts:

"The Education Department is in law. All of the appropriations, all the funding streams that go to the Education Department are in law. That's what Congress said the money is supposed to be used for." ([07:45])

6. Consequences for Students and National Security

The potential dismantling of the DOE is not just an administrative issue but one that impacts national security and the country's global standing. King highlights the interconnectedness of education with economic competitiveness and innovation.

"Without national leadership and education, you have the risk of the United States continuing to fall further behind other countries. It's a threat to our national security." ([09:56])

7. Message of Hope and Call to Action

Towards the end of the interview, Jane Coaston seeks a message of optimism amidst the grim outlook. John King passionately appeals to current DOE staff and the broader community:

"We need their commitment to public service... This administration will not be there forever. We need the Education Department and its functions to continue. They need to keep going for the sake of the students." ([10:45])

He calls on parents, community leaders, and the business sector to advocate for the protection of public education and urge Congress to take action.

8. Conclusion

Jane Coaston wraps up the segment by acknowledging the critical insights shared by John King. The episode underscores the pivotal role of the Department of Education in maintaining educational equity and national prosperity, cautioning against the administration's attempts to undermine these foundational structures.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• John King ([02:51]): "It's going to be terrible for students and families."
• John King ([04:33]): "The federal government plays a key role that is equity focused."
• John King ([06:02]): "The United States depends on equitable access for all to education. That's how we're going to prepare the workforce we need."
• John King ([06:41]): "Things have changed dramatically with the advent of the really the Trump political movement."
• John King ([07:45]): "The Education Department is in law. All of the appropriations, all the funding streams that go to the Education Department are in law."
• John King ([08:29]): "It's the weaponization of the Office for Civil Rights."
• John King ([09:56]): "Without national leadership and education, you have the risk of the United States continuing to fall further behind other countries. It's a threat to our national security."
• John King ([10:45]): "We need their commitment to public service... This administration will not be there forever. We need the Education Department and its functions to continue. They need to keep going for the sake of the students."

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, detailing the discussions between Jane Coaston and John King about the potential dissolution of the Department of Education, its implications for various educational programs, and the broader impact on society and national security.

Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Wednesday, March 12th. I'm Jane Coston, and this is Whataday, the show that congratulates President Donald Trump on his new Tesla, which he purchased in front of the White House in a commercial that might not help Tesla's slumping sales.

[John King]

Hello, President Trump.

[Caroline Levitt]

Are you looking to buy or lease today?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'm gonna buy, and I'm gonna buy because, number one, it's a great product, as good as it gets. And number two, because this man has devoted his energy and his life to doing this. I think he's been treated very unfri by a very small group of people.

[Jane Coston]

He had notes on how much a Tesla costs and everything, because, of course, he did. This isn't desperate, not at all. On today's show, the House passed a bill to avert a partial government shutdown. And Ukraine says it's ready to negotiate a ceasefire with Russia. But let's start by talking about education and the Department of Education. On Tuesday, the Department of Education announced that as part of its, quote, final mission, the agency laid off roughly half of its workforce after nearly 600 people accepted deferred resignations and buyouts. In a statement, Education department secretary Linda McMahon said, this is a significant step toward restoring the greatness of the United States education system. Sure, I guess. President Donald Trump campaigned on getting rid of the Department of Education and sending the agency's responsibilities to other federal departments or back to the states. The Wall Street Journal reported last week that Trump had even prepared an executive order shuttering the department entirely. But legal experts say truly closing the department would require an act of Congress. Here's McMahon speaking on the subject on Fox News Tuesday night, where she was asked if the cuts were part of an effort to shut down the department.

[Donald Trump]

Yes, actually, it is, because that was the president's mandate. His directive to me, clearly, is to shut down the Department of Education, which we know we'll have to work with Congress, you know, to get that accomplished.

[Jane Coston]

So instead, it appears that the Trump administration is trying to kill the department with a thousand cuts, job cuts. They've shrunk the department through buyouts, voluntary retirement, and now through straight up firing people. But that raises a lot of new questions, like what happens to funding for rural school districts or students with disabilities? What about Pell Grant recipients? So, for more about what these cuts could mean for the Education Department, I spoke to someone who used to run it. John King served as Secretary of Education under President Barack Obama during his final year in office. He's now chancellor of the State University of New York. System. He literally pulled his car over to talk to us about this. Secretary King, welcome to what a day.

[John King]

Thanks so much for the opportunity to join you.

[Jane Coston]

The Department of Education says it will lay off close to half of its workforce. What could that actually look like?

[John King]

Look, it's going to be terrible for students and families. The question is how terrible. The department provides funding for schools that serve low income students. The department is the funder of services for students with disabilities. The department is the funder of the Pell Grant program that makes higher education possible for millions of Americans and manages the student loan program that makes higher education possible for millions of students. So all of that is at risk. What we don't know is how quickly those functions will break down once they dramatically reduce the number of people who work at the department.

[Jane Coston]

What's like the worst case scenario for you?

[John King]

The worst case scenario is that those services go away. So if you take away the Title I program, that means larger class sizes, teacher layoffs, fewer extracurricular activities, fewer AP classes. If you take away the Individuals with Disabilities Education act funding, that means students with disabilities who need a speech language pathologist, who need help learning to read, who need help navigating school because of autism, all of those students will be left without services. That's what it was like before the federal government created that law so that the federal government would play a role in education.

[Jane Coston]

Education is already a state based initiative. States have most of the control over how and what kids learn, which I think a lot of people don't know. So what's lost if the Education Department just goes away or is at the very least massively hobbled?

[John King]

Well, look, 90% of the funding in K through 12 education comes at the state and local level. As you're right, the decisions about what to teach, the way the school day is organized, those are made at the local level. But the federal government plays a key role that is equity focused. The federal government is helping states that do not have a lot of resources to provide funding for their highest needs schools. The federal government is also making sure that students civil rights are protected. You know, you think about the images that you've seen of Ruby Bridges, the little girl who integrated schools in Louisiana decades ago. When you see that image, she's being walked to school by federal marshals because the state and the district did not want to serve her. Without the federal government as a vigilant protector of students, you could see students with disabilities not getting their services, English learners being denied an education discrimination against black students, Latino students with disabilities Discrimination against women in Sports. It's the US Education Department that enforces Title 9. That's made it possible for women to have equitable access to college sports. All of that could go away without the Education Department.

[Jane Coston]

But equity is like a boogeyman word right now with this administration. They're actively trying to eliminate that from the federal government. So are you saying that this would backfire on them?

[John King]

It'll backfire on the whole country. Look, the United States depends on. On equitable access for all to education. That's how we're going to prepare the workforce we need. That's how we're going to protect the long term competitiveness of the country. All of that would be undermined if some students are denied educational opportunity.

[Jane Coston]

Republicans have been grumbling about eliminating the Education Department basically since the Education Department was created. You served as Education Secretary during Obama's final year in office, when Republicans controlled both the House and Senate. What did that fight look like on the inside?

[John King]

You know, it was a very different era, honestly. The Republicans of that time period were much more willing to come to the table around constructive, bipartisan solutions. The Every Student Succeeds act passed in 2015 with support on both sides of the aisle. And that law maintained a strong federal civil rights role in education. Things have changed dramatically with the advent of the really the Trump political movement. It's changed the conversation, and for the first time, you have folks walking away from the idea that the federal government has a role to play in ensuring a national focus on improved educational outcomes.

[Jane Coston]

Linda McMahon is officially our new Education Secretary, and she's completely on board with Trump's mission to weaken the agency she's running. But she also said during her confirmation hearing that Congress would need to sign off on any shuttering of the department. So how should we be thinking about what just happened? Is this circumventing Congress, at least in spirit?

[John King]

Absolutely. Look, the Education Department is in law. All of the appropriations, all the funding streams that go to the Education Department are in law. That's what Congress said the money is supposed to be used for. And so what the federal government is doing now, what the administration is doing now, is ignoring what is in law.

[Jane Coston]

Looking specifically at higher education. Trump also pulled $400 million in federal funding from Columbia University last week over its handling of pro Palestine protests on its campuses. The Department of Justice now says it's investigating 60 schools for anti Semitic discrimination and harassment. What could the administration's willingness to use federal funds as a cudgel mean for higher ed?

[John King]

This is the weaponization of the Office for Civil Rights. It's using the federal government to implement the particular values of the administration and really to violate the rights of individual faculty members to teach what they want to teach. What you're seeing at Columbia, certainly Columbia did not handle the protests as well as they should have. But you have now researchers who are studying treatments for cancer whose research funding is being taken away because of the administration's view about Columbia's handling of the protests.

[Jane Coston]

Is there a reality in which colleges and universities shut down due to a lack of funding, which has happened before with small universities and small colleges in Ohio, for example?

[John King]

Look, it's very possible. Schools that enroll large numbers of Pell Grant students, they would not be able to go on without those federal dollars. Schools that have many students who are using the federal student loan program. Keep in mind the Federal government issues $100 billion in loans each year. Those students may not be able to access higher education.

[Jane Coston]

Trump promised to dismantle the Department of Education on the campaign trail, and people voted for him. So if you were talking to someone who thinks this is a really good idea, what would you tell them?

[John King]

Look, I would say that education is foundational to our economic competitiveness. If you want American companies to succeed, they need an educated workforce. If you get sick and you want good treatments for the illnesses that you have, you need higher education institutions that are doing research that helps solve those challenges. Without national leadership and education, you have the risk of the United States continuing to fall further behind other countries. It's a threat to our national security.

[Jane Coston]

One of the things we've been talking about at Crooked is how to give people hope in these really concerning, dark, bleak times. So as the former department head, what message do you have for your former Education Department staffers? How would you tell them to keep up the fight?

[John King]

We need them. We need their commitment to public service. So many of the people who work at the Education Department are former teachers and principals. They're people who have given their lives to public service and to try to make things better for young people. We need them to keep going. This administration will not be there forever. We need the Education Department and its functions to continue. They need to keep going for the sake of the students. And we need everyone else, parents, community leaders, the business community, to tell Congress it's time for them to step up to protect public education.

[Jane Coston]

Secretary King, thank you so much for joining me.

[John King]

Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with former Education Secretary John King. We'll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads what a day. It's brought to you by Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, Deleteme does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. Deleteme sends you regular personalized privacy reports showing what info they found, where they found it, and what they removed. As someone with an active online presence, privacy is really important to me. I know what I put out on the Internet and I don't need anything else out there too. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com wad and use promo code WAD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com wad and enter code wad at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com wad code wad netcredit is.

[Caroline Levitt]

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[Jane Coston]

Here's what else we're following today.

[Mike Johnson]

Head of Lines.

[Marco Rubio]

We did our job today and it's shameful that they will stop at nothing. They will suggest that this bill is something that it's not, and they will run out the clock to shut down the government in a desperate attempt to stop the America first agenda, House Republicans.

[Jane Coston]

And one Democrat managed to do the least on Tuesday by passing a bill to keep the government open past Friday and avert a partial shutdown. Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky was the lone Republican to vote against the bill. Representative Jared golden of Maine was the only Democrat to vote in favor. I guess that's technically bipartisan. The bill boosts funding for the Pentagon and immigration deportations while also cutting billions in non defense spending. It now heads to the Senate, where its fate is totally unclear. The measure likely needs the support of at least eight Democrats to pass because Republican Rand Paul of Kentucky has said he's firmly against it. That could be tough given that the bill doesn't grant Democrats any concessions. But Speaker Mike Johnson seemed pretty confident in his party Tuesday night. He spoke to reporters after the House vote and his message to Senate Democrats was if the government shuts down, it's your fault.

[Marco Rubio]

I believe the Republicans will stick together in the Senate as we have in the House, and I hope there are at least a number of Democrats in the Senate who will do the right thing. If not, this will be on their shoulders and everybody in America knows that.

[Jane Coston]

Senate Democrats are set to meet today to discuss their position on the House bill. Lawmakers have until Friday to avert a government shutdown.

[Donald Trump]

And President Trump?

[John King]

There's this protest leader from Columbia University that the administration is moving to deport and he said that his arrest is going to be the first worst of many.

[Caroline Levitt]

How many?

[Donald Trump]

I think we ought to get them all out of the country. They're troublemakers, they're agitators. They don't love our country. We ought to get them the hell out. I think that guy, we ought to get him. I heard his statements, too. They were plenty bad. And I think we ought to get him the hell out of the country.

[Jane Coston]

That's the president of the United States. Tuesday talking about Mahmoud Khalil, a recent Columbia University grad who's facing deportation for leading pro Palestinian demonstrations on campus. Halil was arrested and detained by Department of Homeland Security officials Saturday night, according to Halil's attorney. Authorities said they were acting on an order by the State Department to revoke Halil's green card. Halil is a permanent legal resident. He was born in Syria. The Department of Homeland Security tweeted that Halil led activities aligned to Hamas, a designated terrorist organization. White House press secretary Caroline Levitt claims Halil organized protests on Columbia's campus. She said the protests at the school were disruptive to the campus, harassed Jewish American students, and pro Hamas propaganda was handed out. Leavitt told reporters Tuesday that the Secretary of State reserves the authority to revoke a green card or visa under the Immigration and Nationality Act Actually, it says right here reasonable grounds to believe that the alien's presence or activities in the United States would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences to the United States. And I think siding with Hamas makes that quite clear. Halil hasn't been charged with a crime, and I think that's worth repeating. He has not been charged with a crime, but he's currently being held at a detention center in Louisiana. A judge in Manhattan ordered the federal government not to deport Halil until his case is reviewed. A hearing is expected today. The Trump administration said it would immediately lift a hold on military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine Tuesday. Ukrainian officials also said they're open to a 30 day ceasefire with Russia. The agreements came after a day of negotiations between Ukraine and the US In Saudi Arabia, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said he would now take the proposal to the Russians.

[Volodymyr Zelenskyy]

We're going to take the offer to them. We're going to tell them this is what's on the table. Ukraine is ready to stop shooting and start talking. And now it'll be up to them to say yes or no. I hope they're going to say yes. And if they do, then I think we've made great progress. If they say no, then, well, unfortunately know what the impediment is to peace here.

[Jane Coston]

You mean the country that invaded a sovereign country? Hmm. Rubio said he hoped to get a response from the Russians as soon as possible. As of our recording time late Tuesday, Moscow had not said whether it would accept the deal. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was not at the Tuesday meeting. He posted a video on Twitter calling the conversations good and constructive, but also said Kyiv's position is clear.

[TaxAct]

Ukraina Pragnemyu Vit pershykundy Vinyv he's saying.

[Jane Coston]

There, Ukraine has been seeking peace from the very first second of this war, and we want to do everything to achieve it as soon as possible and in a reliable way so that war does not return. The meeting between the US And Ukraine came hours after Russia and Ukraine traded hundreds of strikes. The Russian Defense Ministry claimed it shot down more than 300 Ukrainian drones overnight. Dozens of those strikes targeted Moscow. The Russian capital's mayor said it was the largest attack on the city since the war broke out three years ago. Ukraine said its defense systems also shot down more than 100 Russian missiles. The U.S. agriculture Department cut federal programs that handed out around a billion dollars a year to local food banks and schools. You've heard of people doing God's work. This is the opposite. The School Nutrition association said in a press release Monday that more than $600 million in funds through the local Food for Schools program in 2025 was cut. The program awards states money to buy food from local vendors and distribute it to schools and child care institutions. The association said the program will no longer be able to support local producers to provide fresh meal options to children. In a statement to the Hill, the USDA said the programs were canceled because they, quote, no longer effectuate the goals of the agency. And that's the news. One more thing. I know it's been a long oh God, it's only Wednesday. Now. You're probably hoping I am going to tell you something that is not terrible, a piece of news that won't make you say, oh, come the hell on, but unfortunately I can't.

[Donald Trump]

CBS News has learned of a big shift from Southwest Airlines. Starting May 28, the company will start charging for some checked bags. Oh, no. That's the first time in nearly 54 year history this has happened.

[Jane Coston]

Oh, no. Indeed, yes. Southwest Airlines announced that for the first time in its history, the discount airline will begin charging for checked bags. But if you're like me, the appeal of Southwest Airlines was no fees on checked bags. So why are they getting rid of one of the factors that made the airline appealing to people who simply wish to fly from Salt Lake City to Los Angeles without spending a billion dollars on bag fees? To find out, I talked to Brian Summers. He writes the Substack newsletter, the Airline Observer. Brian, welcome to. What a day.

[Caroline Levitt]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coston]

So we had a cool run, I guess. Why is Southwest doing this to us?

[Caroline Levitt]

Southwest is not making as much money as it used to. Investors are very upset. They are, after all, the people who own the company. And Southwest has a new board of directors. They want change fast. They want more money. And the best way to do that, the board thinks, is to add bag fees.

[Jane Coston]

How much money do bag fees really bring in, though?

[Caroline Levitt]

Oh, they bring in a ton of money. So if you look at, say, the U.S. department of Transportation statistics, you'll see like an airline like American can make more than a billion dollars a year in bag fees, but it's actually more than that. Airlines make their most money right now with credit cards. That's where the big money comes in. Delta made like $7 billion last year off of credit cards. In order to get that kind of money, the airline needs to entice people to get the card. And when you get an airline credit card, what do you get? You get free checked bags so by charging for checked bags, you actually get more people to apply for your credit card, and that's really good for business.

[Jane Coston]

Southwest was the last holdout to let travelers check bags for free. How were they able to hold out for so long if bag checking is so lucrative?

[Caroline Levitt]

Well, Southwest is like any company, right? If a consumer is going to choose a company, that company has to give them something in return. So for an airline like Delta, it is free wi fi. For other airlines, it's maybe a chance to go in the airline club. All kinds of goodies. This was a big differentiator for Southwest. A lot of people, including perhaps you chose the airline specifically because the bags were free. So up until, I don't know, up until today, Southwest executives would say it's okay that we don't charge bag fees because people like us so much, they go out of our way to fly us, and we make up that revenue in other ways. The problem is Southwest now has a new big investor, an activist investor called Elliot Management. And Elliot doesn't have a whole lot of interest in these arguments. And Elliot says, you know what? You got to do it a different way. We don't think your math checks out.

[Jane Coston]

So is this the end of an era? And what does it portend for the future of air travel? Because lately it feels like airlines can charge you for anything, and you can't even get in an airplane anymore without being charged for the luxury of bringing a spare pair of underwear. And yet people keep traveling. So it feels like there's no. There's no downsides for them. They can just keep charging you for everything, almost aside from water.

[Caroline Levitt]

I know that everybody likes to beat up on airlines, but the truth is, these are not particularly profitable companies. A lot of times, their operating margins are in the single percents. So 5, 6, 7, 8%. People are not getting rich off of airlines. And a lot of times when airlines are coming up with these new fees, they're just trying to pay their own bills. I hate to say it.

[Jane Coston]

This depresses me. Brian, thanks for being here.

[Caroline Levitt]

My pleasure.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Brian Summers. He writes the Substack newsletter, the Airline Observer. We'll link to it in our show.

[John King]

Notes.

[Jane Coston]

Before we go. You listen to this podcast. You know that keeping up with the news is a lot. With so much chaos, you need smart analysis that actually makes sense of it all. That's where Pod Save America comes in. John Lovett and Tommy break down the political news of the week with sharp insights, real talk, and a few laughs along the way. In the latest episode, they dive into Trump's attacks on protesters and the economy's uncertain future. Plus, Lovett catches up with Bernie Sanders on the Michigan leg of his Fight Oligarchy tour. Listen to Pod Save America now on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, maybe keep your fashion influencing to a minimum if you're also defending thousands of federal layoffs and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how political appointee McLaurin Pinover filmed fashion videos from her desk at the Office of Personnel Management with links to websites where she could earn a commission on her little ensembles. Like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston and I know these people are unimaginably shitty, but can they also also just not be stupid too? Is that too much to ask? Just be shitty or stupid. Pick one Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Craig Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

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