Ex-CDC Doctor On RFK Jr.'s Risky Vaccine Policies

Summary

Podcast Summary: What a Day Episode: Ex-CDC Doctor On RFK Jr.'s Risky Vaccine Policies
Release Date: July 9, 2025
Host: Jane Coaston
Produced by: Crooked Media

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Introduction

In this episode of What a Day, host Jane Coaston delves into the controversial tenure of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.) as the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). With RFK Jr.'s strong anti-vaccination stance, significant changes within the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) have sparked turmoil in public health circles. The episode features an in-depth interview with Dr. Fiona Havers, a former senior advisor on vaccine policy at the CDC, shedding light on the implications of RFK Jr.'s policies on American health.

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RFK Jr.'s Anti-Vaccine Policies and Leadership at HHS

Jane Coaston begins by highlighting the alarming appointment of RFK Jr., a known anti-vaccination advocate, as the head of HHS. She underscores the gravity of his position by referencing COVID-19's impact, noting, “1.2 million Americans have died from the disease since 2020, and an estimated 300 people are still dying every week” (00:02). Coaston contrasts this reality with RFK Jr.'s skepticism towards vaccines, citing his claim in 2023 that “the polio vaccine killed more people than polio did” (01:15).

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Firing of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)

A pivotal moment discussed is RFK Jr.'s decision in June to dismiss every member of the CDC's Vaccine Advisory Committee, known as ACIP, and replace them with fellow vaccine skeptics (01:30). This move, aimed at reshaping vaccine policy, has been met with severe backlash from the public health community. In May, RFK Jr. also reversed the CDC's recommendations on COVID-19 vaccines for pregnant women and babies, prompting lawsuits from the American Academy of Pediatrics and other health organizations.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Susan Kressley, AAP President: “Children deserve better... You can trust your pediatrician. We, like you, will always put our children first.” (02:29)

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Interview with Dr. Fiona Havers: Resignation and Insights

Introduction of Dr. Fiona Havers: Jane Coaston welcomes Dr. Fiona Havers, a former senior advisor on vaccine policy at the CDC, who resigned in protest against RFK Jr.'s policies.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Resignation Motivation:

   • Dr. Havers: “I really didn't feel that who he put in place was going to take actual science, actual data and actual evidence to make policy recommendations.” (05:58)

2. ACIP’s Role and Disruption:

   • Dr. Havers: “ACIP is a group of experts that... gives advice to CDC on what vaccine policy should be... It also dictates insurance coverage for vaccines.” (04:13)
   • Criticism of the newly appointed ACIP members for lacking expertise and undermining established processes.

3. Impact on Vaccine Recommendations:

   • Dr. Havers: “Parents are gonna lose access to safe and effective vaccines... It’s really concerning.” (07:18)

4. COVID-19 Vaccine Policy Changes:

   • Dr. Havers: RFK Jr.'s CDC decision to stop recommending COVID-19 vaccines for pregnant women bypassed expert input and relied on misinterpreted data. (08:20)
   • Example: The CDC states that pregnancy increases COVID-19 risks, and vaccines reduce complications, contrasting RFK Jr.’s stance.

5. Future of CDC Vaccine Recommendations:

   • Concerns about declining trust in CDC guidelines and reduced vaccine access due to insurance coverage changes.

6. Public Health Community’s Response:

   • General disapproval of RFK Jr.'s leadership and interference at the CDC.
   • Dr. Havers: “I hope people don't follow and do what I did and leave because we still need people at CDC.” (12:19)

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Current COVID-19 Status in 2025

Despite five years since the pandemic began, COVID-19 remains a significant public health threat:

• Deaths: An average of over 300 people die weekly from COVID-19 as of April 2025 (10:04).
• Vulnerable Populations: Older adults and children under two remain highly susceptible.
• Vaccine Impact: Dr. Havers emphasizes that vaccination could prevent hospitalizations and deaths, lamenting the ongoing deaths due to inadequate vaccine uptake.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Havers: “It's still a major public health problem that is causing tens of thousands of deaths in the United States every year.” (10:23)

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Impact on Childhood Vaccination and Public Health

RFK Jr.'s alterations to the vaccination schedule have coincided with alarming increases in preventable diseases:

• Measles: Cases reached a 33-year high in the U.S.
• Influenza: 250 American children died last year.
• Pertussis: Rising rates pose a lethal threat to infants.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Havers: “We are in the middle of a huge multi-state measles outbreak... we're going to see an increase in vaccine-preventable diseases.” (11:35)

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Recommendations for the Public

Dr. Havers advises the public to:

• Advocate Against RFK Jr.'s Policies: Push back against undermining HHS authority and vaccine policy.
• Trust Pediatricians: Rely on medical professionals for accurate vaccine information.
• Verify Information Sources: Be cautious of misinformation proliferating due to RFK Jr.'s influence.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Havers: “Pediatricians still have a good idea of what vaccines are benefiting their children. I think they're still a trusted source.” (13:25)

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Broader News Highlights

Beyond the focus on RFK Jr. and vaccine policies, the episode also covers several other critical news topics:

1. Donald Trump's Criticism of Vladimir Putin:

   • Trump labels Putin’s actions as “bullshit” and criticizes Russia’s treatment of human beings.
   • Discussion on the resumption of U.S. weapons shipments to Ukraine.
   • Notable Quote:
     • Trump: “We're sending some defensive weapons to Ukraine and I've approved that.” (18:24)

2. Immigration Policies under Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins:

   • Rollins advocates for mass deportations without amnesty to protect the agricultural workforce.
   • Emphasis on transitioning to automation and a 100% American workforce.
   • Notable Quote:
     • Dr. Susan Kressley: “No amnesty under any circumstances... moving toward automation.” (19:04)

3. Supreme Court Ruling on Federal Agency Layoffs:

   • The Supreme Court permits the Trump administration's plan to lay off workers from federal agencies like the CDC and EPA.
   • Dissent: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson criticizes the decision as “truly unfortunate” and “hubristic.” (19:45)

4. AI Impersonation Threats:

   • The State Department warns about AI bots impersonating officials like Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
   • Reports of AI-generated voicemails and messages sent to various government figures.
   • State Department’s Stance: Limited commentary, maintaining discretion on details. (22:49)

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Conclusion

This episode of What a Day provides a comprehensive analysis of the current challenges facing public health in the U.S., particularly focusing on the disruptive influence of RFK Jr.'s policies within the HHS and CDC. Featuring expert insights from Dr. Fiona Havers, the discussion underscores the potential long-term consequences on vaccine trust, public health infrastructure, and disease prevention efforts. Additionally, the episode contextualizes these issues within the broader political landscape, highlighting ongoing debates around international relations, immigration, and governmental operations.

Listeners are encouraged to stay informed, support evidence-based public health measures, and advocate for policies that prioritize scientific integrity and community well-being.

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Notable Timestamps and Quotes:

• 00:02 Jane Coaston: “1.2 million Americans have died from the disease since 2020, and an estimated 300 people are still dying every week.”
• 02:29 Dr. Susan Kressley: “Children deserve better... You can trust your pediatrician.”
• 05:58 Dr. Fiona Havers: “I really didn't feel that who he put in place was going to take actual science, actual data and actual evidence to make policy recommendations.”
• 07:18 Dr. Fiona Havers: “Parents are gonna lose access to safe and effective vaccines... It’s really concerning.”
• 10:23 Dr. Fiona Havers: “It's still a major public health problem that is causing tens of thousands of deaths in the United States every year.”
• 11:35 Dr. Fiona Havers: “We are in the middle of a huge multi-state measles outbreak... we're going to see an increase in vaccine-preventable diseases.”
• 13:25 Dr. Fiona Havers: “Pediatricians still have a good idea of what vaccines are benefiting their children. I think they're still a trusted source.”
• 18:24 Donald Trump: “We're sending some defensive weapons to Ukraine and I've approved that.”
• 19:04 Dr. Susan Kressley: “No amnesty under any circumstances... moving toward automation.”
• 19:45 Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson: “[The Supreme Court’s decision] demonstrated enthusiasm for greenlighting this president's legally dubious actions.”

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Final Notes:

What a Day continues to deliver timely and critical analysis of the most pressing issues affecting American society. By focusing on authoritative voices and factual reporting, the podcast remains a vital resource for listeners seeking to understand the complexities of current events.

Transcript

[Jane Coastin]

It's Wednesday, July 9th. I'm Jane Coastin, and this is what the show that is. Sure, that Twitter's AI Bot Grok getting an update and immediately becoming blindingly anti Semitic is not a horrifying vision of the future to come. Definitely not foreboding and menacing. Totally fine and cool. On today's show, President Donald Trump calls out Russian President President Vladimir Putin for his, quote, bullshit. And someone has been using AI to impersonate Secretary of State National Security Advisor Acting Archivist Marco Rubio. But let's start with COVID Remember Covid? 1.2 million Americans have died from the disease since 2020, and an estimated 300 people are still dying every week. So it's a real stroke of luck that we have an esteemed champion of science and the power of vaccines in charge of the Department of Health and Human Services. Oh, wait, no, we do not. We have Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Kennedy is a longtime anti vaccination enthusiast. I mean, he claimed in 2023 that the polio vaccine killed more people than polio did.

[Unknown Speaker]

So if you say to me that the, you know, the polio vaccine was effective against polio, I'm gonna say yes. If I say. If you say to me, did it kill more people, that it caused more deaths than avert, I would say, I don't know because we don't have the data on that.

[Jane Coastin]

I do have the data. It did not. It absolutely did not. So it is depressing and horrifying, but not surprising to anyone besides Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy that Kennedy has been aggressively acting on that skepticism in the few months he's been leading hhs. At the end of June, Kennedy fired every member of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Vaccine Advisory Committee, known as acip, or the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. He replaced them with a group of fellow vaccine skeptics, which is not a great idea under any condition, but especially when your job is to help determine which vaccinations Americans receive. In May, RFK Jr announced that the CDC would also stop recommending Covid vaccines for pregnant women and babies. This week, the American Academy of Pediatrics and other health organizations sued him and the department, arguing the decision was, quote, arbitrary and put kids at real risk. Academy President Dr. Susan Kressley explained the suit in a social media video Monday.

[Dr. Susan Kressley]

The American Academy of Pediatrics isn't standing by. We're stepping up. We're taking legal action because we believe children deserve better. We've published our own immunization schedule for decades and will continue to do so because kids can't wait for politicians to sort this out. In this moment of uncertainty, one thing remains clear. You can trust your pediatrician. You can trust the aap. We, like you, will always put our children first.

[Jane Coastin]

Oh, I forgot to mention that measles cases reached a 33 year high in the U.S. it's a great time to be an infectious disease in America. Dr. Fiona Havers was a senior advisor on vaccine policy for the CDC before resigning. After the ACIP firings, we got to talk about the risks we're facing because of these changes and what everyday people should do to keep themselves and their families safe. Dr. Fiona Havers, welcome to what a day.

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

Well, thank you very much for having me.

[Jane Coastin]

A few weeks ago, you resigned from your position at the CDC as a senior advisor on vaccine policy, and the final straw for you was HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. S firing of the entire Advisory Committee on Immunization practices or the ACIP. Did those firings surprise you?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

Honestly, when RFK Jr was appointed as Health and Human Services Secretary, we were all very, very concerned in the public health world. All of the things that he had been doing leading up to this was really concerning. However, the fact that he went that far and just went completely blew up the committee and fired everyone was, I would say, utterly foreseeable, but still extremely shocking when it happened.

[Jane Coastin]

Can you remind me, what are the duties of that committee?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

Okay, so it's a really important outside advisory committee. It's a group of experts that convenes to give advice to CDC on what vaccine policy should be and which vaccines are recommended for who. And it's a very complicated process. And then three times a year they have these public meetings where they vote on vaccine policy. And if ACIP recommends a vaccine, it is the only group that if the CDC director signs off on, it has to be covered by insurance. In addition, there is this really important program called the Vaccine for Children's program that provides free vaccines to half of America's, more than half of children in America. And this committee decides what vaccines are covered by the Vaccines for Children's program. So it not only dictates, like when you go to the doctor, what they look up and what they recommend for adults and children, but it also dictates insurance coverage for vaccines.

[Jane Coastin]

So what would you say to someone who thinks it's great that RFK Jr. Is so called cutting the red tape at the CDC?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

He's not cutting the red tape. He's blowing up an entire process. This ACIP advisory committee and CDC's process for vaccine policy, because of the criticisms from people like RFK Jr. In the past, was put into place to be extremely transparent, extremely evidence based, with a whole bunch of specific processes. So that when this committee and CDC change its vaccine policy, it was very clear why, what the science was, who voted for it, all of that. They had bent over backwards over decades to establish this committee and the process to be transparent. I think what is happening and the reason why I resigned was because I really didn't feel that who he put in place was going to take actual science, actual data and actual evidence to make policy recommendations.

[Jane Coastin]

That leads to my next question. What do you think of the newly reconstituted acip?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

I mean, with maybe one exception, the people who are sitting on ACIP right now would never have gotten anywhere near that committee in the past. I watched the meeting and I think it was very clear from the questions that there was a huge lack of expertise. They were not the typical questions that would be asked about scientific data. Also, there was a lot of really concerning things that they said during the meeting. For example, the new chair opened up the ACIP meeting saying that they were going to revisit the childhood immunization schedule. And honestly, I think that sent chills down the spines of pediatricians across the country because what that means is they could start restricting access to vaccines that have been safe and effective for years. And then they also had this vote on thimerosal in flu vaccines. And that first of all violated all kinds of processes. Like if you bring a policy vote to acip, it takes months of work. They skipped all of that and then pushed a vote forward, bypassing all normal processes, but also on a topic that is just long settled science and was very concerning. So the whole meeting was a mess. And this committee, I mean, they basically made a farce of the entire ACIP process.

[Jane Coastin]

The ACIP also discussed a bunch of other vaccines over their two days of meetings. What do you think the future for CDC vaccine recommendations holds?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

I mean, I think I'm very concerned that it's no longer going to be viewed as sort of science based and expert based. And it's going to create a lot of confusion for clinicians and for patients if they're no longer able to trust the CDC recommendations. But I think my main concern is vaccine access because this committee's recommendations actually legally dictates insurance coverage if they continue down this road. I mean, I do think parents are gonna lose access to safe and effective vaccines. Older adults may as well, because it won't be covered by insurance. And I think it's really concerning.

[Jane Coastin]

I know that another part of your decision to leave had to do with new Covid vaccination guidance from the cdc because the CDC was actually using or misusing your data in their announcement that they would no longer recommend the COVID vaccine for healthy babies and pregnant women. What was that like to watch? Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

So those are some of the events that kind of, like, led up to this before they blew the entire thing up. RFK Jr. Announced on X that CDC's recommendations for Covid vaccines were changing again, not involving anyone from CDC who's an expert on COVID vaccine policy and completely bypassing ACIP just to, like, announce that, oh, all of a sudden CDC is changing their recommendations. And so that really bothered me because we spent all this time putting together this very nuanced data and they just, like, ignored it.

[Jane Coastin]

Yeah, I mean, I just pulled this information from the CDC's website. But according to the CDC itself, pregnancy is a factor that increases the risk of severe illness from COVID and of complications that can impact your pregnancy or. And your developing baby. But according to the Mayo Clinic, vaccination against Covid lowers the risks of complications significantly. Also, the vaccine helps protect unborn children from the virus.

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

Yeah.

[Jane Coastin]

So what do you think this change in CDC policy is going to mean for pregnant women and their unborn children?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

It could potentially mean that if a pregnant woman wants to get the COVID vaccine to protect herself and also her newborn infant, that it might mean that doctors won't feel comfortable prescribing it because there's not an official recommendation for CDC for pregnant women. It also means that insurance companies don't have to cover it. And that means that a woman who wants to get this vaccine their doctor recommends it may have to pay out of pocket or may not be able to get it at all.

[Jane Coastin]

If you.

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

And it's really problematic. I mean, more infants were hospitalized in the last 12 months for Covid than for influenza, even though it was a really bad flu season. And hospitalization rates for babies under 6 months who are protected by their mom getting vaccinated during pregnancy are still really high. So it's a big deal that you're leaving babies unprotected.

[Jane Coastin]

On the topic of COVID we are here speaking today in the year of our Lord 2025, a full five years after the pandemic began and about four years after a vaccine was rolled out. And yet ABC News reported that in April, an average of more than 300 people died every week. From the virus. How is that still happening?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

People don't realize how bad Covid still is. Covid is a huge problem, particularly in, as we talked about, kids under two, but like a lot of older adults are still really vulnerable. And the deaths from COVID have still continued to exceed deaths from influenza if you look at sort of 12 month period. And so I'm a practicing physician and I have seen a lot of older adults come in seriously ill from COVID It is still a major public health problem that is causing tens of thousands of deaths in the United States every year. And it's, as a doctor, it's like really painful to see people come in and seriously ill from COVID that if they had gotten a vaccine, they might not be in the hospital and they might not die. So yeah, it's still a problem. People don't want to believe it, but it is Now.

[Jane Coastin]

Make America Healthy Again recently released its report on childhood chronic illness called Make Our Children Healthy Again. And the report asserts that the health of American children is in crisis. And it also says, surprise, surprise, that part of the crisis is an uptick in autism and partially blames the, quote, growth of the childhood vaccine schedule for that. What impact could changes to the recommended childhood vaccination schedule for kids and parents have?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

We are in the middle of a huge multi state measles outbreak right now. This is a disease that was officially eliminated in the United States decades ago. Since RFK Jr. Became HHS Secretary, we've seen two pediatric deaths which we hadn't seen in very long time. And we also had 250American children die of influenza this past year. Pertussis is on the increase and that kills babies. We are going to see an increase in vaccine preventable diseases and potentially more children becoming seriously ill or even dying from these diseases if access to vaccines is restricted or there is increased misinformation and confusion. So, I mean, it's really, really disturbing what we're seeing.

[Jane Coastin]

You were at the CDC for 13 years. What are your peers who are either still there or have also left thinking and saying about RFK jr's leadership?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

I would say the entire public health community is generally appalled by him and it's been really challenging to have him overseeing cdc. I would also say that he's been interfering much more with CDC than any HHS secretary that I've ever seen. I've never seen an HHS secretary get involved directly in, for example, ACIP and vaccine policy. I mean, my colleagues are great like they are. There's a bunch of really dedicated data driven people that really have been working and dedicating their careers to public health and using science and all to make American lives better. I hope they hang on. I hope people don't follow and do what I did and leave because we still need people at cdc. But it is really hard.

[Jane Coastin]

How should everyday people be responding to this? Is there something that we can be doing to benefit our families, our friends, our neighbors, our communities if the CDC isn't there to help?

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

I guess what I would say is all of this is a nonpartisan issue. Like people want to take care of their families. And I do think that pushing back on RFK's Jr. S abuse of his power as HHS secretary and interfering with CDC's processes, and I think raising your voice about that would be helpful. I also think that pediatricians still have a good idea of what vaccines are benefiting their children. I think they're still a trusted source. I think making sure that their sources of information are reliable I think is critical because there's a lot of bad information out there.

[Jane Coastin]

Dr. Fiona Havers, thank you so much for joining me. Great.

[Dr. Fiona Havers]

Well, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

[Jane Coastin]

That was my conversation with Dr. Fiona Havers. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts and share with your friends. More to come after some ads what a Day is brought to you by Zbiotics Free Alcohol let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to when I was like 22. I have to make a I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is, until I found pre alcohol zebiotics. Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on working out the next day without worry. Summer is here, which means more opportunities to celebrate the Warm weather for that backyard barbecue brew, glass of Pinot, watching the sunset on the beach, or a cocktail by the campfire. Don't forget your Zebiotics Pre alcohol. Drink one before drinking and wake up feeling great and ready to take on the next day and all that summer has to offer. Go to zbiotics.com wad to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use code WAD at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com wad and use the code WAD at checkout for 15% off.

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[Jane Coastin]

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[Donald Trump]

We get. We get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin for. You want to know the truth? He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless.

[Jane Coastin]

Crazy President Trump stating what has been plainly painfully obvious for years now. He should have just said, vladimir, stop. Trump leveled up his criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin. During a Cabinet meeting Tuesday. It comes a day after Trump's surprise announcement that the US Would resume weapons shipments to Ukraine in its fight against Russia. The Pentagon abruptly paused some of the shipments of military aid just last week. During Tuesday's Cabinet meeting, a reporter asked about that pause and self proclaimed very stable genius. Trump seemed confused.

[Unknown Speaker]

Last week, the Pentagon paused some shipments of weapons to Ukraine. Did you approve of that pause?

[Donald Trump]

We want to put defensive weapons because Putin is not, he's not treating human beings right. He's killing too many people. So we're sending some defensive weapons to Ukraine and I've approved that.

[Unknown Speaker]

So who ordered a paused last week?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?

[Jane Coastin]

Always comforting when the commander in Chief is apparently clueless about where US Weapons are being shipped and where they're not. This is fine. Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins expressed support for the Trump administration's crackdown on undocumented immigrants, including farm workers, during a press briefing Tuesday. Apparently the Secretary of Agriculture now has a say on what happens with migrants.

[Dr. Susan Kressley]

So no amnesty under any circumstances. Mass deportations continue, but in a strategic and intentional way. As we move our workforce toward more automation and toward a 100% American workforce.

[Jane Coastin]

We'Re gonna upend the lives of millions of immigrants with mass expulsions, but we're gonna be intentional about it all. That totally makes sense. Rollins emphasized a need for strategy so deporting hard working laborers doesn't mess with our food supply.

[Dr. Susan Kressley]

Ultimately, the answer on this is automation. Also some reform within the current governing structure. And then also when you think about there are 34 million able bodied adults in our Medicaid program. There are plenty of workers in America.

[Jane Coastin]

Yes, because supposedly able bodied adults on Medicaid are going to be able to or want to go work on farms on which Brooke Rollins does not work. Never mind that most of those able bodied adults on Medicaid are already working. The White House has been grappling for months now with how to square maga's callous blood lust for deporting people with the fact that industries like farming and construction depend on migrant labor. Trump likely knows he's in a jam too. A few times he's floated the idea of some sort of exemption from migrant farm workers. And during Tuesday's Cabinet meeting later in the day, he made some extra confusing comments about a supposed work program before deferring to Rollins, who didn't appear to know what the fuck he the President was talking about.

[Donald Trump]

There's no amnesty. What we're doing is we're getting rid of criminals, but we are doing a work program. Do you want to explain that, please?

[Dr. Susan Kressley]

Yeah. This morning we talked about, of course this was a top of mind question. This morning we talked about protecting the farmers in the farmland. But obviously this president's vision of no amnesty, mass deportation continues, but in a strategic way, and then ensuring that our farmers have the labor that they need to. Secretary Chavez Durimer has been a leader on this. Obviously this comes out of the Labor Department, but moving toward automation, ensuring that our farmers have that workforce and moving toward an American workforce. So all of the above.

[Donald Trump]

We've got to give the farmers the people they need, but we're not talking amnesty.

[Jane Coastin]

So to recap, mass deportations are a go. There's no amnesty and no clear details about so called work programs were shared. Who will work on farms, robots? The Supreme Court signed off on the Trump administration's plans for mass layoffs across more than a dozen federal agencies and departments Tuesday, at least for now. The layoffs had previously been blocked by a lower court. Tuesday's decision is not the final say in the case. The justices are just allowing the White House to implement its plans while legal challenges play out in lower courts. But that's likely cold comfort to the thousands of workers at places like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Social Security Administration, and the Environmental Protection Agency whose jobs can now be cut. The court's decision was unsigned, but only Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson issued a dissent. She wrote that her colleagues, quote, demonstrated enthusiasm for greenlighting this president's legally dubious actions. And she called the decision not only truly unfortunate but also hubristic and senseless. The State Department has warned its diplomats about recent attempts to use artificial intelligence to impersonate Secretary of State Marco Rubio and potentially other officials. A cable was sent out last week to all US Embassies and consulates. The Rubio imposter is still unknown, but the cable reportedly says they contacted at least three foreign ministers, a US Governor and a senator via voicemail text messages and the White House's favorite app for sharing sensitive information Signal. State Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce was asked about the Rubio AI incident during a press conference Tuesday.

[Dr. Susan Kressley]

The State Department, of course.

[Jane Coastin]

When we think about the reports that have occurred and the details that we would like to provide become problematic, obviously, when it comes to investigations and the nature of the actions that we're taking. So that's what I have for you right now. Can you say anything? Can you tell the American people that there was no damage, no violation of security? Yeah, I I will not. Whether it that's the case or not, go into any of the details. Yes, Tammy, give us nothing. And that's the news. Before we go Summer Reading Alert Amanda Lippman's new book, When We're In Charge is out now from Crooked Reads. It's a guidebook to leadership for the next generation from the founder of Run for Something and the newest release from Crooked's publishing imprint, When We're In Charge makes a great gift for new grads, friends celebrating a big promotion or anyone looking to up their beach reading game this summer. Plus, you can complete your book look with a We do not dream of labor tote. Perfect for anyone who wishes every day was a summer Friday. Just head to crooked.com store for the exclusive tote bundle or head straight to crooked.combooks to get the book. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, wish the best to the French fencer whose failed drug test was supposedly caused by kissing her partner too much and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled on Monday that a French fencer who tested positive for an anabolic drug should be cleared because she ingested the drug from kisses with her then partner like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston and would you be surprised to learn that this is actually not the first time someone has said successfully used the kissing defense against a doping allegation? What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walter, Matt Berg, Tyler Hill and Laura Newcombe. Our senior producer is Erika Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America eas.

[Unknown Speaker]

Amazon Pharmacy presents Painful Thoughts I read somewhere.

[Jane Coastin]

That the average American spends 13 hours a year waiting in pharmacies for prescriptions.

[Unknown Speaker]

Clearly, I am above average.

[Jane Coastin]

I thought being above average would feel better.

[Unknown Speaker]

Maybe I'll read some greeting cards next time. Use Amazon Pharmacy. We deliver. And here's to being anything but average. Amazon Pharmacy Healthcare just got less painful.

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