Hegseth’s Sham Hearing

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What A Day" – Episode: Hegseth’s Sham Hearing

Host: Jane Coston
Release Date: January 15, 2025
Podcast: What A Day by Crooked Media

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1. Pete Hegseth’s Confirmation Hearing for Secretary of Defense

The episode opens with a critical examination of former Fox News host Pete Hegseth's Senate confirmation hearing for the position of Secretary of Defense. Jane Coston highlights the controversy surrounding Hegseth, focusing on his military background and the skepticism about his capability to lead the largest employer in the United States.

Hegseth’s Credentials and Initial Statements:

At the start of the hearing, Hegseth acknowledges his unconventional background compared to previous defense secretaries:

[00:45] Pete Hegseth: "Now, it is true and has been acknowledged that I don't have a similar biography to defense secretaries of the last 30 years... I believe, and I humbly agree, that it's time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm."

Hegseth emphasizes his two decades of military experience but admits to lacking the traditional credentials expected for the role, aligning himself with a more grassroots leadership style.

Allegations and Republican Defense:

The hearing does not shy away from addressing serious allegations against Hegseth, including sexual assault and excessive drinking. Republican senators Mark Wayne Mullen and others defend Hegseth by downplaying these accusations and drawing parallels with behaviors of other senators.

[02:46] Mark Wayne Mullen: "How many senators have showed up drunk to vote at night?... How many senators do you know have got a divorce before cheating on their wives? Did you ask them to step down? No."

Mullen further personalizes the defense by attributing Hegseth's past mistakes to his wife's forgiveness:

[03:16] Mark Wayne Mullen: "The only reason why I'm here and not in prison is because my wife loved me too."

Interview with Senator Tammy Duckworth:

One of the most significant segments features an in-depth conversation with Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth, who was a stern critic during the hearing. Duckworth articulates her profound concerns regarding Hegseth's qualifications and integrity.

[04:03] Tammy Duckworth: "I asked him questions that were pretty basic for anybody that is going to be in leadership over at the DOD and he didn't know any of the answers."

Duckworth criticizes Hegseth's inability to answer fundamental questions about international security agreements and ASEAN countries, highlighting a perceived lack of preparedness for the role.

Her skepticism extends to Hegseth's stance on women's roles in the military:

[04:37] Jane Coston: "It seems like Hegseth is nodding to progressiveness on women in combat roles, but what did you learn from that?"

[04:51] Tammy Duckworth: "I learned that he's willing to say whatever he needs to say to get confirmed. He did everything he could to put women on trial so that we would need to defend whether or not women are qualified to serve in combat."

Duckworth expresses anxiety over Hegseth's potential vulnerability to political pressures and his ability to uphold the Department of Defense's integrity:

[05:27] Tammy Duckworth: "He's just not qualified to lead the Department of Defense... our adversaries are watching. They know that this man can be exploited."

Furthermore, Duckworth raises concerns about the transparency of Hegseth's background checks:

[06:26] Tammy Duckworth: "We need to know what is in his background... our adversaries, they're digging, and they will have this information on him."

She underscores the importance of comprehensive background disclosures for national security.

Senator Mark Wayne Mullen's Defense:

Mark Wayne Mullen, a Republican senator, provides a contrasting viewpoint, defending Hegseth by generalizing the behavior of senators:

[02:33] Unknown Smears: "I'm not hearing false, but according to Oklahoma Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen... it's a just a thing everyone does."

Mullen attempts to normalize the allegations against Hegseth by asserting that such behavior is commonplace among senators, thereby deflecting the scrutiny.

Likelihood of Confirmation:

Despite the intense questioning and allegations, the episode suggests that Hegseth is likely to be confirmed, especially with support from Iowa Republican Senator Joni Ernst, who initially had reservations but ultimately backed him.

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2. Intra-MAGA Conflict: Steve Bannon vs. Elon Musk over H1B Visas

The podcast transitions to an exploration of the internal conflicts within the MAGA movement, focusing on the clash between former White House strategist Steve Bannon and tech magnate Elon Musk over the H1B visa program.

Background on the H1B Visa Debate:

Jane Coston introduces the issue by explaining the significance of the H1B visa, a program facilitating the entry of highly skilled foreign workers into the United States, primarily benefiting industries like engineering and technology. However, the program has become a contentious battleground within conservative circles.

Steve Bannon’s Critique of Elon Musk:

Steve Bannon has been vocally critical of Elon Musk, portraying him as someone who does not wield substantial power within Trump's administration. Bannon's disdain represents the nativist wing of the MAGA movement, which opposes both legal and illegal immigration.

[08:20] Mark Wayne Mullen: "He doesn't have the ability to actually make decisions and inform those."

Bannon’s opposition is partly fueled by the disagreement over the H1B visa program, which Musk champions as essential for his companies' growth and competitiveness.

Roger Karma’s Analysis:

The episode features an insightful conversation with Roger Karma, a staff writer at The Atlantic covering economics and economic policy. Karma delves into the complexities of the H1B visa debate, explaining how it has split the right-wing coalition into two factions: the tech-focused pro-immigration side and the nativist anti-immigration faction.

[09:37] Roger Karma: "The H1B program in practice allows about 85,000 foreign workers per year... there are some flaws in implementation, but that's the sort of basics of the visa."

Karma acknowledges legitimate economic criticisms of the H1B program, such as its exploitation by outsourcing firms and the potential suppression of American wages. However, he also cites studies demonstrating the positive impact of H1B workers on innovation and job creation.

[12:15] Roger Karma: "Almost every careful experimental study that's been done on the H1B program, most of them find pretty significant positive effects because the companies that get these workers often grow much faster, they often innovate much more."

Future of the Intra-MAGA Conflict:

Karma predicts an ongoing power struggle between Bannon’s nativist approach and Musk’s economically driven stance, especially under a potential Trump administration that has historically favored restrictive immigration policies through figures like Stephen Miller.

[17:28] Roger Karma: "I think what we're gearing up for is a sort of intra coalitional, intra administrative fight between Musk and Miller."

Karma also touches on the broader implications for Democratic strategies on immigration, suggesting that the party may need to recalibrate its stance in response to internal and external pressures.

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3. Other Significant News Highlights

In addition to the primary discussions, the episode briefly touches on several other important news stories:

Legislation Banning Trans Athletes:

The House passed the "Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act," a Republican-led bill aiming to ban transgender female athletes from competing in female school sports teams. The bill, supported by Florida's Representative Greg Steube, seeks to amend Title IX by defining sex based solely on reproductive biology and genetics at birth. However, it attracted bipartisan opposition, including from Democrats like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

[22:21] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: "Here's the thing. There's no enforcement mechanism in this bill. And when there is no enforcement mechanism, you open the door to every enforcement mechanism."

The legislation is poised to move to the Republican-controlled Senate, facing substantial criticism for its lack of clarity and potential overreach.

DOJ Report on Donald Trump:

The Department of Justice released part one of former special counsel Jack Smith's report investigating Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. The report, highly anticipated, details Trump's use of the "big lie" as a tool to undermine democratic processes. Although the second part of the report remains blocked by a federal judge, the initial findings suggest strong evidence that could have led to a conviction if not for immunity rules protecting a sitting president.

[22:21] Jane Coston: "Smith said he was confident Trump would have been convicted if the election interference case went to trial."

Ukraine’s Drone Attacks on Russia:

Ukraine launched a significant drone attack on southwestern Russia, marking one of the most substantial strikes since the onset of the war. Utilizing US and UK-made missiles, Kyiv aims to demonstrate its capability to conduct deep strikes within Russian territory. Russia retaliated by condemning the attacks and vowed response, highlighting ongoing tensions and the precarious nature of international alliances as Trump prepares to take office.

[25:06] Mark Kelly: "Is this code for we're going to abandon Ukraine?"

Hegseth responds by deferring to presidential policy decisions, suggesting a potential shift in US support for Ukraine under Trump's administration.

TikTok Migration to RedNote:

Amidst ongoing legal battles over TikTok's future in the United States, the Chinese social media platform RedNote has surged in popularity, becoming the most downloaded app in the country. Users are migrating to RedNote en masse in response to impending Congressional deadlines requiring TikTok to divest from its Chinese parent company, ByteDance, due to national security concerns.

[25:23] Jane Coston: "The mass migration is basically a middle finger to lawmakers who claim that the Chinese government could use TikTok to surveil American users."

This rapid user shift underscores the complexities and public resistance surrounding government-imposed restrictions on popular digital platforms.

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4. Conclusion

The episode of "What A Day" masterfully navigates through the intricacies of Pete Hegseth's confirmation hearing, shedding light on the deeper political and social undercurrents at play. Through in-depth interviews and expert analysis, particularly from Senator Tammy Duckworth and Roger Karma, the podcast provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and debates shaping today's political landscape. Additionally, the coverage of related news stories ensures that listeners are well-informed on a broad array of pressing issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Pete Hegseth [00:45]: "I believe, and I humbly agree, that it's time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm."

• Senator Tammy Duckworth [05:27]: "He's just not qualified to lead the Department of Defense."

• Roger Karma [09:37]: "The idea behind this program is that having highly skilled foreign workers come into the US Is a good thing."

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez [22:21]: "When there is no enforcement mechanism, you open the door to every enforcement mechanism."

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5. Additional Information

For more insights and detailed analysis, listeners can explore related articles by Roger Karma at The Atlantic.

Production Credits:

• Host: Jane Coston
• Producers: Michelle Eloy
• Associate Producers: Raven Yamamoto, Emily Foer
• Editors: Desmond Taylor, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, Julia Claire
• Senior Producer: Erica Morrison
• Executive Producer: Adrienne Hill
• Theme Music: Colin Gilliard and Kashaka
• Production Staff: Proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East

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Subscribe and Stay Informed:

Stay updated with daily news and in-depth analysis by subscribing to "What A Day" on your favorite podcast platform or YouTube. For nightly updates, subscribe to the What A Day newsletter at [e-mail].

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Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Wednesday, January 15th. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a day. The show Asking Pete Hegseth hey buddy, everything okay? On today's show, Congress passes legislation banning trans athletes from female school sports teams. And have you heard of RedNote? TikTok users are migrating to the Chinese social media app. But the big story is former Fox News host Pete Hegseth's confirmation hearing for the role of Secretary of Defense. And while he has two decades of military experience, he doesn't seem to have the experience needed to lead the largest employer in the United States. He even made that clear in his opening statement.

[Pete Hegseth]

Now, it is true and has been acknowledged that I don't have a similar biography to defense secretaries of the last 30 years. But as President Trump also told me, we've repeatedly placed people atop the Pentagon with supposedly the right credentials, whether they are retired generals, academics, or defense contractor executives, and where has it gotten us? He believes, and I humbly agree, that it's time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm.

[Jane Coston]

Apparently, though, for Republicans, that's fine. Also fine are allegations of sexual assault and excessive drinking. See Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine had a lot of questions about Hegseth's marital history.

[Pete Hegseth]

I assume that in each of your weddings you've pledged to be faithful to your wife. You've taken an oath to do that, haven't you, Senator? As I've acknowledged to everyone in this committee, not a perfect person. Not claiming to be, but no. I just asked a simple question. You've taken an oath like you would take an oath to be Secretary of Defense in all of your weddings, to be faithful to your wife. Is that correct? I have failed in things in my life and thankfully I'm redeemed by my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[Jane Coston]

Look, the Lord did not ask to get involved here. And Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly had a lot of questions about Hegsest's history with alcohol.

[Mark Kelly]

An event in North Carolina drunk in front of three young female staff members after you had instituted a no alcohol policy and then reversed it. True or false? Anonymous smears December of 2014 at the CVA Christmas party at the Grand Hyatt at Washington, D.C. you were noticeably intoxicated and had to be carried up to your room. Is that true or false? Anonymous smears Another time, a CVA staffer stated that you passed out in the back of a party bus. Is that true or false?

[Jane Coston]

Anonymous smears I'm not hearing false, but according to Oklahoma Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, who hasn't gotten hammered before a big work event or cheated on their wives? Just a thing everyone does. Am I right?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

How many senators have showed up drunk to vote at night? Have any of you guys asked them to step down and resign from their job? And don't tell me you haven't seen it, because I know you have. And then how many senators do you know have got a divorce before cheating on their wives? Did you ask them to step down? No.

[Jane Coston]

And for some unknown reason, Mullen added that it's only because of how forgiving his wife is that he's not behind bars.

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

I've made mistakes. And Jennifer, thank you for loving him through that mistake. Because the only reason why I'm here and not in prison is because my wife loved me too.

[Jane Coston]

I now have a bunch of questions, but they're mostly for Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. It's more than likely that Hegseth will be confirmed, especially after Iowa Republican Senator and veteran Joni Ernst said late Tuesday that she would support him after initially expressing reservations. Anyway, one of the toughest questioners during the hearing was Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth. So I called her up to talk about what she did and didn't learn from Hegseth's responses. Senator Duckworth, welcome to what a day.

[Tammy Duckworth]

It's good to be on. Thanks for having me, Senator.

[Jane Coston]

Senator, you had some very tough questions for Pete Hegseth. What did you learn from his responses to you and to other senators?

[Tammy Duckworth]

Yeah, here's the thing. Those should not have been tough questions for somebody who wants to be Secretary of Defense. They were very basic questions. I asked him to name a country in asean, which is, you know, one of the largest economic alliance of nations in the Indo Pacific, and he couldn't name a single one of the 10. I asked him name one of three types of treaties that the Secretary of Defense has to negotiate in international security agreement, and he could not name a single one of them. I mean, I asked him questions that were pretty basic for anybody that is going to be in leadership over at the dod and he didn't know any of the answers.

[Jane Coston]

As a veteran, I noted that you and other female senators really emphasized his apparent flip flop on women serving in combat because apparently he had a come to Jesus moment about 24 hours ago. So what did you learn from that?

[Tammy Duckworth]

I learned that he's willing to say whatever he needs to say to get confirmed. I think he went to the Brent Kavanaugh school of preparing for hearings. You know, say whatever you need to do and then afterwards do whatever you want. But frankly, Mr. Hecseth did everything he could to put women on trial so that we would need to defend whether or not women are qualified to serve in combat. And Republicans did everything that they could to make this about everything else. Everything else other than Mr. Hecseth's ability to be Secretary of Defense. Even ask him how many pushups he.

[Jane Coston]

Did today as a veteran, what worries you most about his potential confirmation to be Secretary of Defense?

[Tammy Duckworth]

His utter incompetence. And I'm also worried about the fact that he's not the guy that's going to stand out to Donald Trump. He was asked directly whether or not he would oppose Donald Trump if he gave an order that was unlawful, that was contrary to the Constitution, and he wouldn't answer that question. He was asked several times, if he were under oath, would he answer differently? And he wouldn't answer those questions. He's just not qualified to lead the Department of Defense. And by the way, our allies are watching. Our adversaries are watching. And they know now that this man can be exploited. They know that this man is weak and not able to do his job. And we potentially are going to be confirming a Secretary of Defense who probably is someone who could be vulnerable to being blackmailed. I mean, he's already had to pay off a woman who accused him of sexually assaulting her in order to keep his last job.

[Jane Coston]

You mentioned during the hearing that you haven't received Hegseth's FBI background check or financial disclosures. Other candidates had their confirmations canceled because of this. I know it seems obvious, but why are those so critical?

[Tammy Duckworth]

Well, we need to know what is in his background. So what has happened is the Republican chairman has refused to allow the members of the committee, other than himself and Senator Reid, to see the FBI investigation. He won't let us read it, even in a secure room. I'd like to know who the FBI talked to, because from what I'm hearing is that some of the women who have accused him of. Of sexual misconduct have asked to be interviewed, but the FBI never interviewed them, and they are afraid to come forward. They are afraid for themselves and they're very young children that they might come under attack. And yet the FBI have not interviewed them. And so I want to know what is in his background, because let me tell you, our adversaries, they're digging, and they will have this information on him.

[Jane Coston]

What did you learn from this hearing that you're going to take away for confirmation hearings featuring people like Tulsi Gabbard or RFK Jr. Because this is just the start, really.

[Tammy Duckworth]

What I'm hearing, unfortunately, is that my Republican colleagues care more about the MAGA base and bowing down to Donald Trump than they do about the safety and security of our nation and the wonderful men and women who wear the uniform, who protect us every single day. They're placing political ambitions and political survival over the well being of the nation and that's really sad.

[Jane Coston]

Senator Duckworth, thank you so much for taking the time.

[Tammy Duckworth]

Thanks for having me on.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Senator Tammy Duckworth. While senators were grilling Hegseth over his drinking habits and his treatment of women, Trump's former White House strategist Steve Bannon was continuing his all out verbal war on Elon Musk. During an interview with Politico Tuesday, Bannon tried to minimize any influence Musk will have in Trump's White House. What's shocking to me is he doesn't have much power. Why do you say that?

[Mark Wayne Mullen]

Well, because he doesn't have the ability to actually make decisions and inform those.

[Jane Coston]

Decisions and drive those decisions. And last week, Bannon told an Italian paper that Musk is a, quote, truly evil person. This is a real worst person, you know, moment for me. So what's all this about? And when will I get my most loathed people cage match? Well, Bannon and Musk represent opposite sides of an intra MAGA war that's broken out over the H1B visa program. It's a legal immigration pathway for certain high skilled workers, usually in fields like engineering and tech. Musk is a previous H1B visa holder and is all in favor of the program. He says his companies like SpaceX and Tesla rely on these visas. And when this MAGA fight broke out online around Christmas, he told his opponents very politely to quote, fuck yourself in the face. On the other side, Bannon and his ilk of nativist maga diehards oppose all forms of immigration, even legal immigration. So for more on the debate over H1B visas, I spoke with Roger Karma. He's a staff writer at the Atlantic where he covers economics and economic policy. Fun fact, we used to work together at Vox and the New York Times. Roger, welcome to what a day.

[Roger Karma]

It's great to be here.

[Jane Coston]

Jane, can you tell us a little bit more about the H1B visa? Who qualifies, what industries use them a lot? And why does the US have this program in the first place?

[Roger Karma]

So the idea behind this program is that having highly skilled foreign workers come into the US Is a good thing. It's good for national competitiveness it is good because oftentimes there's a shortage of skills in industries like whether it's chip making or engineering or it. And so the idea was, let's have a program that brings the best and the brightest here to the US to help our business ecosystem, to help our competitiveness. The H1B program in practice allows about 85,000 foreign workers per year. The requirement is that they have to have at least a bachelor's degree and have some kind of special experience or knowledge. That is at least the theory in practice. There are some flaws in implementation, but that's the sort of basics of the visa.

[Jane Coston]

You write that the debate over H1B visas is dividing both parties right now, but it seems to me, at least publicly, outside of independent Senator Bernie Sanders, it's people on the right who are screaming at each other over it. Why are these visas such a lightning rod on the right?

[Roger Karma]

I think when Donald Trump came into office, he was elected by a pretty broad coalition. And that coalition included two very distinct groups. It included far more groups, as you know. But two of the distinct groups is what you can think of as sort of the tech right and the nativist right. The tech right is much more concerned with economic growth, with deregulation, with sort of laissez faire economic policies. And the nativist right is much more concerned the much more blood and soil national identity constituency of the party. And these two camps broadly agree on an issue like illegal immigration. They generally agree in sort of border security. But when it comes to highly skilled immigration, you see one of these divisions because what you have is a conflict between the sort of economic growth grow, the economic pie, tech right, which wants these workers for their industry, which really cares about national competitiveness with China. And on the other hand, the nativist right has the same sort of critique of this kind of immigration as they do with illegal immigration, that it disrupts the national identity of the country and sort of erodes what they see as a sort of Christian civilizational aesthetic. I will put as.

[Jane Coston]

That's how I'll put it now, to put as. As kind a gloss on the nativist right as I can, is there any truth to one of their arguments and one that I've heard from some corners of the left, that people who hold H1B visas are taking away high paying jobs from Americans or suppressing their wages?

[Roger Karma]

So before I get into that critique, I should just say that while this debate began over the merits of the H1B visa, it became very clear very quickly this was not the primary concern of a lot of the nativist, right. Laura Loomer, who was the notorious MAGA influencer who kicked this whole thing off, had a you know, her original tweets were about some of them were about H1B. They were about immigration, taking jobs from, you know, American workers. But they pretty quickly devolved into her calling the people coming on these visas third World invaders from India. There were lots of other tweets of that nature, and so I don't want to totally glance over that aspect of it.

[Jane Coston]

It's difficult to do.

[Roger Karma]

That said, there is this good faith economic critique that actually does have some merit to it. The H1B program has significant flaws that even a lot of its supporters admit. One of them that Bernie Sanders referred to that a lot of the more good faith folks on the right have referred to is that up to a quarter of these visas are actually used by so called outsourcing firms, which are firms that basically they're located in other countries and their goal is to bring in these workers to train them up and ultimately have them either coordinate offshore teams or just go back to their home country and work at a fraction of the cost. So basically what that critique gets right is that there are a lot of ways to game the system. I think there are some things that it gets wrong. On the whole, almost every careful experimental study that's been done on the H1B program, most of them find pretty significant positive effects because the companies that get these workers often grow much faster, they often innovate much more, and that ends up creating more jobs for native workers too. And so it really is this mixed bag where on the one hand there are real flaws with the program that folks can point to. And on the other hand, it does seem like it's a program that is serving a lot of the intended purpose it was supposed to serve.

[Jane Coston]

We're going to take a quick break, but we'll have more of my conversation with Atlantic staff writer Roger Karma after some ads. If you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. Back in a few what a Day is brought to you by Lumen Are you ready to jumpstart your health in 2025? Lumen can help. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath, and on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, workouts, sleep and even stress management. All you have to do is breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs. Then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements. You can also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals so you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time. And Lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game. Your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does. Optimal metabolic health translates to a bunch of benefits, including easier weight management, improved energy levels, better fitness results, better sleep, etc. Etc. Lumen gives you recommendations to improve your metabolic health. It can also track your cycle as well as the onset of menopause. It'll even adjust your recommendations to keep your metabolism healthy through hormonal shifts so you can keep up your energy and stave off cravings. So if you want to keep the weight off for good this year, go to Lumen Me WAD to get 20% off your lumen that is L U M E N ME WAD for 20% off your purchase. Thank you Lumen for sponsoring this episode.

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[Roger Karma]

The cable guy.

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[Jane Coston]

Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage SW auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote Today restrictions apply. Let's get back to my conversation with Atlantic staff writer Roger Karma about the fight over H1B visas. It's interesting, and you mentioned this a little bit, that Trump's coalition includes both Silicon Valley tech elites like Elon Musk or Vivek Ramaswamy, who thinks that the real issue is that Americans idolize Corey Matthews from Boy Meets World and they favor legal immigration for high skilled workers. And then you also have you know Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon who hates Elon Musk and who is very in favor of a hardline immigration agenda, including a crackdown on legal immigration. Now, one of the funny things has been that Trump has so far sided with Musk and Ramaswamy on this issue. But how do you see this debate playing out within the right once he takes office?

[Roger Karma]

I think the key phrase there is once he takes office. Right, because during Trump's first term, he often turned over the substance of his immigration policy to a man that you just mentioned, Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller is probably the most prominent member of the nativist right in the Trump administration. He was given a lot of deference in Trump round one, including severely limiting the H1B program. Stephen Miller was the one pushing for H1B to be completely suspended during the pandemic, and he succeeded. That's what the Trump administration did. And now he has been tapped for an even larger role in Trump's second term. And so I think what we're gearing up for is a sort of intra coalitional, intra administrative fight between Musk and Miller. And I don't think it's very obvious which way it's gonna go, especially because Miller has been known for just understanding the bureaucratic minutiae of immigration policy better than almost anyone else. And Musk and Ramaswamy are going to be busy trying to make the government more efficient. And so I don't think anyone really knows exactly how this is going to turn out.

[Jane Coston]

Right. And Musk has vowed to, quote, go to war in support of H1B visas. He is the richest man in the world and a person who, if I recall, benefited from the H1B visa. So he has considerable resources to do that, and he cares a lot about this. But has he met his match in the extremely online MAGA faithful and Stephen.

[Roger Karma]

Miller, I think the way I look at it is almost the inverse. There was no one in Trump term one who was a match for Stephen Miller. The emergence of Musk has made me think that now what you're going to have is these two power centers. I think a lot of it will come down to, is Elon Musk actually willing to go to war on this issue, or is he going to become, as the man often does, sidetracked by a combination of doge and the fact that he also is running a bunch of other companies. Like, my concern is that Stephen Miller is sort of has less of a platform, but has, like, a singular focus on restrictions, immigration policy, where Elon's is much more scattered in his attention. Even if he has a lot of power and influence.

[Jane Coston]

Right. I mean, he's got to spend a lot of time tweeting, very busy, a.

[Roger Karma]

Lot, so much time.

[Jane Coston]

So Democrats are a little bit at sea right now as they try to reposition the party after losing the 2024 election and getting shut out of power. How do you see the election shaping how Democrats niche immigration topics like H1B visas? Are we going to see a resurgence of kind of how Bernie used to sound back in 2015, 2016 on immigration? Kind of the late Representative Barbara Jordan kind of a immigration restrictionist ish argument?

[Roger Karma]

I think that's what at least we're seeing a preview of now. So as we sort of mentioned earlier, Bernie Sanders interjected in this whole intra maga debate by basically coming out for not an argument that is the same as the nativist right but pretty close when it comes to the economics saying that calling H1B visa holders indentured servants, saying they're here to replace native born workers. And that's a very different line that Democrats have taken on immigration. Right. Like Democrats have become I think branded as the sort of more loose on immigration policy. I think after the 2024 election there has been a reckoning within the party, a realization that the Democratic Party's brand on immigration is toxic and needs to be changed. And I consider Bernie's intervention here as really the first shots fired. He's sounding a lot more like Bernie 2015 did when Bernie in 2015 told our former colleague Ezra Klein that open borders was a Koch brothers proposal that would make everyone in America poorer. The difference is back then Bernie received widespread criticism from the left. Now he's making very similar arguments and he's gotten mostly silence and some nods from other Democrats and we'll see. I think Bernie's fired the first shot, but I definitely don't think he's going to fire the last.

[Jane Coston]

Roger, thank you so much for joining me.

[Roger Karma]

It's been such a pleasure, Jane, thanks for having me.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Roger Karma. He's a staff writer at the Atlantic where he covers economics and economic policy. We'll link to his story in our show Notes. Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines an overwhelming majority of Americans believe that men don't belong in women's sports and that we must allow common sense to prevail. On Tuesday, the House passed a Republican led measure restricting transgender students from playing on women's and girls sports teams. Florida Republican Representative Greg Stube of Florida introduced the bill saying it will, quote, restore the integrity of women's sports. Two Democrats sided with Republicans in the vote. But New York Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez slammed the legislation on the House floor. She said Republicans now want to pretend that they care about women and why.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

To open up gender and yes, genital examinations into little girls in this country in the so called name of attacking trans girls. And to that today, what we have to say are two words, not today. The majority right now says there's no place in this bill that says it opens up for genital examinations. Well, here's the thing. There's no enforcement mechanism in this bill. And when there is no enforcement mechanism, you open the door to every enforcement mechanism.

[Jane Coston]

The bill, known as the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports act, would amend Title IX to recognize a person's sex as, quote, based solely on a person's reproductive biology and genetics at birth. It also threatens to take away federal funding from schools that let a person whose sex is male participate in an athletic program designated for women or girls. The legislation is now expected to head to the Republican controlled Senate. On Tuesday, the Department of justice released part one of former special counsel Jack Smith's investigative report into President elect Donald Trump. It covers his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Smith dropped that case and another related to Trump's mishandling of classified documents shortly after Trump was elected in November. Smith cited the DOJ's rule that sitting presidents cannot be federally prosecuted. Smith's report was highly anticipated after he resigned from his post last week. In it, Smith said he was confident Trump would have been convicted if the election interference case went to trial. He wrote that the evidence showed that Trump used the, quote, big lie as a, quote, weapon to defeat a federal government function foundational to the United States democratic process. Smith also stood by his decision to go after the president elect in court, saying that he and his team, quote, stood up for the rule of law in their investigation. A federal judge has temporarily blocked the release of the second part of Smith's report on the classified documents investigation. On Tuesday, Ukraine launched one of its biggest drone attacks on Russia since the war began. The attacks were focused mostly on southwestern Russia and are another example of Kyiv's determination to prove it can strike deep inside the country. Ukraine used US And UK Made missiles. Russia's Defense Ministry said Ukraine also launched more than 140 drones. It said these actions of the Kyiv regime, supported by Western curators, will not go unanswered. Ukraine's efforts to appear strong ahead of Donald Trump's inauguration come amidst concerns he might abandon support for the country. Maine independent Senator Angus King asked Trump's defense secretary pick Pete Hegseth, why he didn't mention Ukraine or Russia in his opening statement at his Senate confirmation hearing Tuesday.

[Mark Kelly]

Is this code for we're going to abandon Ukraine?

[Pete Hegseth]

Senator, the president, this is. That's a presidential level policy decision. He's made it very clear that he would like to see a end to that conflict. We know who the aggressor is. We know who the good guy is. We'd like to see it as advantageous for the Ukrainians as possible.

[Jane Coston]

Trump has vowed to end the war once in office, Russia's top diplomat said Tuesday the Kremlin is open to a meeting between President Vladimir Putin and Trump. As the fate of TikTok hangs in the balance of the Supreme Court, a new social media platform is gaining traction in the U.S. on Tuesday, the popular Chinese social media platform RedNote became the most downloaded app in the U.S. tikTok users are reportedly flocking there ahead of January 19, the deadline Congress imposed on TikTok to divest from its Chinese owned parent company ByteDance, over concerns about national security. The mass migration is basically a middle finger to lawmakers who claim that the Chinese government could use TikTok to surveil American users, a claim that they still haven't provided any evidence to support. Many TikTok users who have made RedNote accounts have made posts using the viral hashtag TikTokrefugee, which was viewed 100 million times on Tuesday. The Supreme Court is set to rule on the looming TikTok ban in the coming days. If the justices side with the federal government, 170 million users in the US could lose access to the app this weekend. And that's the news before we go this week on strict scrutiny, hosts Leah, Melissa and Kate dive into an already packed year digging into how Republicans are attempting to steal a North Carolina Supreme Court seat. They also break down the just argued TikTok case and dissect Donald Trump's mounting legal challenges. Tune into strict scrutiny Wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, beef up your LinkedIn resume so you can finally get that cabinet position and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how it seems kinda telling that Republicans seem to want to argue that everyone gets drunk and cheats on their wives. And anyone who says they don't is lying. Which raises new and interesting questions. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston and seriously, don't be like Geet Hegseth. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Unknown]

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[Roger Karma]

She's one half of a Flip flop. That's me who got left behind at Celebration Key, Carnival's exclusive paradise in Grand Bahama.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Uh, IP chose to stay here.

[Jane Coston]

It really is paradise.

[Roger Karma]

So now Flip spends her time lounging on the beach, swimming in the lagoon and eating.

[Jane Coston]

The only thing more impressive than my appetite are all the dining options. Yeah.

[Roger Karma]

Have you tried food service to your cabana?

[Jane Coston]

Ooh, yum. Flip. Where'd she go?

[Roger Karma]

Book your cruise. Vacation to Carnival. Celebration Key. A paradise you'll want to lose yourself in. Ships registry. The Bahamas, in Panama.