Podcast Summary: What A Day — "How To Survive Online Speech Wars Without Self-Censorship"

Host: Jane Coaston
Guest: Ari Cohn (Lead Counsel at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression)
Date: September 29, 2025
Duration: ~20 minutes

Overview

This episode delves into the increasingly fraught landscape of free speech in America, particularly as it plays out online. In the wake of conservative activist Charlie Kirk's assassination, a wave of public and private repercussions has hit people for statements made about his death. Host Jane Coaston speaks with legal expert Ari Cohn to untangle what the law actually protects, why both the left and right are inconsistent on free speech, and how everyday people can navigate online expression without succumbing to self-censorship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current Backlash Against Speech Online

• Context: A surge in firings and doxxing against individuals for “insensitive” or critical remarks about Charlie Kirk after his death.
• Conservative activists, including VP J.D. Vance, have encouraged public reporting of such comments to employers ([01:26]).
• Example: Teachers, university staff, and a South Carolina teaching assistant lost their jobs, including for quoting Kirk directly, not just criticizing him ([01:35]).

2. The Political Flip-Flop on 'Free Speech'

• Observation: Jane notes how conservative politicians—historically positioning themselves against “cancel culture”—are now driving the punishments.
• President Trump promises to “bring back free speech” even while advocating government pressure on certain kinds of speech ([02:13]).

3. What Counts as 'Protected Speech' in the US?

Ari Cohn:

• Hate Speech: “We have a few certain definite and fairly narrow categories of unprotected speech, and they all have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not speech is hateful.” ([03:36])
• Incitement: Must be both intended and likely to cause imminent lawless action—emphasis on immediacy ([04:04]).
  • Quote: “If you have even a second to stop and think about what you're doing and you still choose to do the unlawful act, then it's not the speaker's fault, it's your fault.” ([04:25])
• Other exceptions: true threats, obscenity, fraud, and defamation ([04:53]).
• Key Takeaway: Most “offensive” or upsetting speech is legally protected. The law and morality only “overlap a little bit” ([05:10]).

4. Why Speech Makes Hypocrites of Us All

• Ari Cohn: It’s “counterintuitive to stand up in defense of the right to say things that we abhor” ([05:59]).
  • “Everyone's got their free speech, butt...that thing where they're like, well, everything else is free speech. But this is particularly icky.”
• Social outrage cycles make thoughtful defense of unpopular speech rare.

5. Firings & Legal Recourse: Public vs. Private Employees

• Private employees are mostly at the mercy of employers’ policies on speech ([07:59]).
• Public Employees: (ex: teachers) have First Amendment protections when not speaking as part of their official duties ([09:39]).
  • Presumptive protection for private speech on matters of public concern; exceptions require a high bar for proof of harm to workplace operations ([10:02]-[10:39]).
  • Example: Political commentary about public figures is generally protected unless it disrupts official functions.

6. Navigating Online Expression Amid Risk

• No way to be 100% safe: “It’s really just…unbelievable how much free time some people have, apparently, to be honest.” ([11:00])
• Cohn's Advice:
  • Don’t self-censor out of fear; doing so “hands them the victory they’re looking for.”
  • Quote: "We have to make it difficult. And, you know, I would also urge those people doing the targeting to think to themselves—do we want to live in a culture where we can't have opinions, where we can't say what we think on anything because somebody is going to try to get us fired?" ([11:36])
  • Calls for “spine stiffening” among those facing attempted silencing.
  • Warns “tit for tat” retaliation risks spiraling into a “pretty dark road” ([12:35]).

Notable Quotes

• Jane Coaston [05:37]:
  "There's something about speech that makes a lot of people into giant, massive hypocrites..."
• Ari Cohn [06:07]: “Everyone's kind of got their free speech, butt … that thing where they're like, well, everything else is free speech. But this is particularly icky, and I think it takes thought and actual effort to override that … baser human instinct.”
• Ari Cohn [04:25]: “If you have even a second to stop and think about what you're doing and you still choose to do the unlawful act, then it's not the speaker's fault, it's your fault.”
• Ari Cohn [12:32]: "We should really think carefully about how we wield this weapon, because it's a pretty crude one. And I think, you know, taken to its logical conclusion, and especially with the way that we like to tit for tat in society these days, can lead us down a pretty dark road."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01–01:26: News context — firings over Charlie Kirk social media reactions
• 03:00–04:36: Ari Cohn explains categories of unprotected speech; debunking “hate speech” as a legal concept
• 05:37–06:55: The hypocrisy trap of free speech debates
• 07:59–10:39: What legal recourse do public employees have? Explaining government employer rights
• 11:00–12:39: Do’s and don’ts for online speech; why not to self-censor; dangers of a doxx-and-fire culture

Memorable Moments

• Ari Cohn likens the backlash to “almost North Korea, like, insufficient mourning type business” ([07:59]), highlighting the absurdity of mandated emotional responses.
• Jane Coaston's reflection on the left/right “cancel culture” flip: “Remember the whole the left loves cancel culture and the right wants to protect free speech thing from, like, nine months ago?” ([01:35])
• Cohn's call for courage: “If you give up and if you self censor and if you, you know, abdicate your role in civic discourse, you’re handing them the victory...” ([11:25])

Conclusion

Jane wraps with thanks and a reminder that while personal risk is real, a healthy democracy depends on resisting both the self-censorship and the tit-for-tat culture war tactics dominating online speech. Ari Cohn’s plea is not only for individual courage but for a societal reckoning on how and why we punish each other for speech—regardless of ideology.

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