Bill McKibben (3:01)

Very good to be with you.

Jane Coston (3:02)

Okay, let's get the bad news out of the way first because there's a lot of it. But then we're going to talk about some of the bright spots you write about. As you know, President Trump has been extremely clear in his dislike of alternative energy, but lately it seems like he is at a, like, personal war with wind power. In particular, Trump stopped construction of the Revolution wind farm over concerns that it could be used to launch drone attacks on the U.S. what was your reaction when you saw that news?

Bill McKibben (3:31)

Well, this is just the utter nadir of absurdity from this administration. They've just done the same thing, apparently in Massachusetts. This is good, clean, cheap energy that we could and should be using electricity. Prices are already up 10% around this country this year because we're constraining the supply of clean energy. It's all some kind of just crazy idea he has in his mind that all good energy comes from setting oil and gas on fire. And along with many of his other weird ideas, this one's going to cause us endless, endless trouble.

Jane Coston (4:14)

Yeah, and it's been wild. The administration's pulling permits on a bunch of other projects and has tasked almost every government agency with finding problems in wind power and other renewable energies, from national security to health issues to whales. With all of this happening at once, are you worried?

Bill McKibben (4:30)

Of course I'm worried. The real problem is that as you'll recall, last year candidate Trump told the big oil executives that for a billion dollars in donations, they could have anything they wanted. They gave him about half a billion between donations and advertising and lobbying in the last election cycle. And that's clearly enough. He's giving them more than they ever could have hoped for. What really is happening here is that in very short order, America is ceding the technological future to China. China is building out renewable energy at an almost unbelievable pace. In May, the last month for which we have numbers, the Chinese were putting up 3 gigawatts of solar pan. A gigawatt's the rough equivalent of a big coal fired power plant. So they were building three big coal fired power plants worth of sun every day, one every eight hours. We're being left behind. We're leaving ourselves behind. And these are technologies that were, of course, invented in the U.S. the first solar cell in New Jersey in 1954. The first commercial wind turbine 30 miles south of my house in Vermont in the 19 Fort. Not eating our lunch? We're serving our lunch to them.

Jane Coston (5:50)

But you have written that Trump's attacks on renewables will fail. How can you be so certain?

Bill McKibben (5:56)

Well, first of all, the war is being fought across the planet, and every other country on Earth is moving in the right direction. Maybe not the Russians at varying rates, but many of them quite fast. So he's going to lose the war around the world, and then he's going to lose it here, because sooner or later, Americans are going to ask, why do we have to pay so much more for electricity than everybody else on the planet? Why is everything in our economy bogged down by the high price of energy? And they'll have no answer. At some point, cooler heads will prevail. The problem is that at some point doesn't do much good for our very, very overheated climate. We only have a few years to try and make this transition. We've been given one last real shot at it by the rapid fall in the price of renewable energy. So we should seize that moment just as fast as we can.

Jane Coston (7:00)

Yeah. And it's interesting because you talk about how there are some really good things happening on this front. Can you explain what's going on in California?

Bill McKibben (7:09)

Yeah, California is a great story. California has taken this more seriously than anybody else. It's not that they've done everything right, but they've done a lot right. And as a result, they've hit a tipping point in the last 10 months, almost every day. California produces more than 100% of the energy it uses from renewable sources for long periods of the day. At night, when the sun goes down, the biggest source of supply to that grid is batteries that have been soaking up excess sunshine all afternoon. Bottom line, California, fourth largest economy on planet Earth, is using 40% less natural gas to produce electricity than they were two years ago. That's a big enough number that applied broadly. You start shaving tenths of a degree off how hot the planet eventually gets. And it's an even better number when you know that California's now being outpaced by Texas at the pace in which it's putting up renewable energy.

Jane Coston (8:12)

Yeah, let's talk about Texas, because Texas is kind of an interesting story where you have political leadership who are largely in lockstep with the President. But they're reporting the benefits of investment in renewable storage, especially in a state where the power grid has been not so very good. So what can Texas tell us about the fight for renewable energy?

Bill McKibben (8:33)

Well, it's an even more wild story than that because, of course, Texas is also the absolute headquarters of the world hydrocarbon industry. And so Big Oil has been doing its best to shut down this energy transition in Texas, but it's been failing. The state legislature had a number of bills this year introduced by Big Oil, the most prominent of which commentators started calling DEI for natural gas. It would have required anyone putting up 5 megawatts of solar to also build 5 megawatts of expensive natural gas generation. But out of the woodwork, especially from rural Texas, emerged many, many people who came to Austin to say, don't do this. This is how we pay for our school system now. This is what keeps the old folks home going. In our rural community. Renewable energy is our lifeblood. And so the Texas legislature slinked away, didn't do it, went back to work redistricting Texas to give Donald Trump some more congresspeople, but it didn't do anything with renewable energy. And I think the lesson is that any place where we can view this on straight ahead economic terms, we're going to make progress. That's what terrifies Big Oil. That's why they're doing everything they can to make sure that the Trump administration slows down this transition.

Jane Coston (9:57)

The governor of Massachusetts shared her concerns with Bloomberg this week over Trump halting wind projects off the coast there. And she's basically asking the Trump administration to work with states on this, not against them. What's the best path forward? Where you have an administration that hates renewable energy, but you have a lot of states where they've said like, hey, this is working for us and we like it.

Bill McKibben (10:17)

I think the best path forward is to get people out in the street demanding action. We have this big Sunday event coming up on September 21st across the country, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of events in cities and towns celebrating the rise of renewable energy and demanding that our leaders do more about it. You can find out about it at Sunday Earth. But that's the kind of uprising that it's going to take because at the behest of Big Oil, Trump will do everything possible to slow down this transition. It won't last forever. I think cooler heads will prevail just because the economics are so powerful. But it's not going to be Trump that bends, especially not if we're not out in the Streets.

Jane Coston (11:05)

Yeah, I think that that's my last question for you, which is that it's not just about climate change. It's not just about protecting the environment, because we know that the Trump administration doesn't care about those things. But higher and higher energy costs make voters mad. And Donald Trump, somewhere within him, cares about voters being furious at him about rising costs. That's something he pointed to a lot during the election, you know, talking about how groceries was an old fashioned wor or something. So if places like Texas, as you just mentioned, if, you know, rural folks can go to Austin and say that this is how we are paying for our school districts and this is how we are having good jobs, if they can agree that renewables can help lower energy costs, the administration has got to see some of the benefits too. I mean, yes, I'm aware of the role that Big Oil is playing in this administration, but also, like Big Oil isn't going to pay my energy bill.

Bill McKibben (12:03)

You know, the hope is that at some point the conservative case for renewable energy will rise to the fore. I've lived my life in rural America, much of it in red state rural America. I have plenty of neighbors with Trump flags and solar panels. And their reason is it can be done. Well, it's like my home is my castle. I'm gonna defend it with my AR15, but it's much more my castle if it has an independent power supply. And that's why I' got solar panels up on the roof. Those kind of impulses might not be mine. I mean, I want to fight climate change above all, but we can work with those kind of differences and we should. It's the absolute sellout to Big Oil that's the travesty here. And the fact that that hands the future over to our theoretical adversary, China, who as far as I can tell, we're doing absolutely everything we can think of to help Xi jinping along.

Jane Coston (13:08)

Bill McKibben, thank you so much as always for joining me.

Bill McKibben (13:13)

A real pleasure. Many, many thanks.

Jane Coston (13:16)

That was my conversation with Bill McKibben, environmentalist and author of Here Comes the A Last Chance for the Climate and A Fresh Chance for Civilization. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. Subscribe more to come after some ads. Whataday is brought to you by Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. It's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. Having your address, phone number and family members names hanging out on the Internet can have actual consequences in the actual real world and makes everyone vulnerable and more and more online partisans and nefarious actors will find this data and use it to target political rivals, civil servants, and even outspoken citizens posting their opinions online. With Deleteme, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy of your business from doxxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. The New York Times Wirecutter named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. I'm very active online and I have a big presence in a lot of online spaces, so security matters a lot to me. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com wad and use promo code WAD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com WAD and enter code WAD at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com WAAD code WAAD think you.

Advertisement Voice 1 (15:00)

Know your breaking point? If you're a woman with weak bones due to osteoporosis after menopause. Sadly, you may not. Women can lose up to 20% of their bone density within five to seven years after menopause, making bones weaker and more likely to break. And after the first fracture, we're five times more likely to break another bone within a year. It could happen from a simple slip or just bending to lift a bag of groceries. Don't wait for a breaking point. Visit bonebreakingpoint.com to learn about how osteoporosis medications can reduce the risk of fractures.

Advertisement Voice 2 (15:31)

Hi neighbor. Welcome to Birch Lane, a Wayfair specialty brand. Our timeless furniture and decor is hand picked and crafted to bring joy for years to come. So get ready to celebrate it all, from big holiday gatherings to everyday moments at home. Decorate the mantel, gather around the table and bring fall to every room. Plus, it's all delivered fast and free. Shop classic style for Joyful living@birchlane.com.

Jane Coston (15:56)

Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines.

Senator or Senate Finance Committee Member (16:02)

I'm happy to have a detailed discussion with you about it. You're so wrong on your facts.

Advertisement Voice 2 (16:08)

You're interrupting me.

Advertisement Voice 1 (16:09)

And sir, you're a charlatan. That's what you are.

Donald Trump (16:11)

Maybe President Trump should have asked you.

Senator or Senate Finance Committee Member (16:13)

Are you a trustworthy person?

Jane Coston (16:16)

And we should have waited for an answer.

Senator or Senate Finance Committee Member (16:17)

Then let's move on. I don't even know what you're talking about. You're talking gibberish.

Advertisement Voice 1 (16:21)

You are putting America's babies health at risk, America's senior's health at risk, All Americans health at risk. And you should resign.

Jane Coston (16:30)

Those were just a few of the exchanges between angry senators and HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. During a fiery Senate hearing that was supposed to be about making America healthy again. RFK Jr testified before the Senate Finance Committee for three hours Thursday. Three hours of Robert F. Kennedy Jr and during that hearing, Kennedy Jr tried to defend his efforts to pull back COVID 19 vaccine recommendations and explain the turmoil he's created at federal health agencies by laying off thousands of workers, firing science advisors, and remaking vaccine guidelines. There's a lot to get into, but let's start with recently ousted Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Susan Minarez and her Wall Street Journal op ed. Oregon Democratic Senator Ron Wyden pressed Kennedy Jr. About her claims.

Senator or Senate Finance Committee Member (17:18)

So my first question, Mr. Secretary, is did you in fact do what Director Monarz said you did, which is tell her to just go along with vaccine recommendations even if she didn't think such recommendations aligned with scientific evidence?

Jane Coston (17:34)

Hmm. Let's find out.

Senator or Senate Finance Committee Member (17:36)

No, I did not say that to her. And I never had a private meeting with her. Other witnesses to every meeting that we have, and all those witnesses will say, I never said that. So she's lying today to the American people in the Wall Street Journal. Yes, sir.

Jane Coston (17:53)

It's a classic game of brain worms. Said she said. Maneris legal teams said Kennedy Jr. Is the one who's lying. We certainly dismiss Secretary Kennedy's claims as false and at times patently ridiculous, they said in a statement. Obviously, medical groups and several Democrats in Congress have called for Kennedy to resign or be fired. But on Thursday, even some Republican senators seemed a little put off. They noted that Kennedy Jr. Has said President Donald Trump deserves a Nobel prize for the 2020 Operation Warp Speed initiative to quickly develop MRNA COVID 19 vaccines. Which is odd, considering Kennedy Jr also attacked the safety and continued use of those very shots. Here's Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy laying that trap.

Senator or Senate Finance Committee Member (18:36)

Mr. Secretary, do you agree with me that the president. That the president deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed? Yeah, absolutely. Let me ask you. But you just told Senator Bennett that the COVID vaccine killed more people than Covid. Wait, that was a statement. I did not say that. Okay, let me ask because you also, Senator, I just want to make clear, I cannot say that we'll check the record. That's a question of fact.

Jane Coston (19:05)

I think it's safe to say that after this contentious hearing, both Democrats and Republicans are starting to get tired of this guy's bullshit.

Advertisement Voice 1 (19:14)

We've been able to pass legislation after legislation after legislation.

Bill McKibben (19:18)

So much so, Texas has passed more.

Advertisement Voice 1 (19:21)

Pro life legislation than any state in the United States.

Jane Coston (19:28)

That's Texas Republican Governor Greg Abbott two weeks ago praising his own pro life agenda. Well, now his signature is the only thing standing in the way of one of the most aggressive anti abortion measures in the country becoming law. And given what we just heard, it sounds like he'll give his stamp of approval pretty swiftly. House Bill 7, which the Texas Legislature passed Wednesday, allows private citizens to sue any individual or entity that provides medical abortion pills to Texans. That includes manufacturers, doctors and anyone who mails the medication to Texas, even if they're out of state. Those who break the law would face minimum damages of $100,000 per violation. Opponents of the bill say it encourages vigilantism by using citizens rather than the government to enforce abortion bans. Those who sue successfully would receive $10,000 per case. The law would be the first of its kind in the US and would take effect in December, barring legal challenges. Washington, D.C. is suing the Trump administration over its deployment of National Guard troops to the city. The complaint filed Thursday argues that it is illegal to use the US Military for domestic law enforcement. It asks a federal court to intervene as the president floated plans to send troops to other cities like Chicago and New Orleans to combat his so called crime emergency. Trump recently extended national guard deployment in D.C. through December. The lawsuit goes after pretty much everyone involved, specifically suing the Department of Justice, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegsak, the US army and Attorney General Pam Bondi, among others. A White House spokesperson said that the lawsuit is, quote, nothing more than another attempt at the detriment of D.C. residents and visitors to undermine the president's highly successful operations to stop crime in D.C. but D.C. attorney General Brian Schwab, who filed the complaint, said in a written statement, no American city should have the US Military, particularly out of state military who are not accountable to the residents and untrained in local law enforcement policing its streets. And well, we know what happens to officials who go after Trump. On Thursday, the Washington Post obtained a draft summary of legislation from Republicans on the House Oversight Committee. It outlines a slate of legislation they're considering that would overhaul criminal justice policies in D.C. including one that would remove the locally elected attorney general in this case, Schwalb, and replace him with a presidential appointee. Former Kentucky Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell made an unusual comment to a Kentucky newspaper this week. He said Trump's second presidency has been, quote, the most dangerous period since before World War II. Huh. I wonder how we got into that period. Could it have anything to do with Mitch McConnell? Maybe it's because of the time he denied President Barack Obama a Supreme Court pick, thereby personally paving the way for the current ultra conservative court majority, the same court that gave Trump total immunity for criminal acts committed while in office. Or the time he voiced his support for Trump over and over again in 2016 and continued to support him as the 2024 nominee even after saying the president was morally responsible for the January 6th insurrection.

Donald Trump (22:39)

If the president was the party's nominee.

Bill McKibben (22:42)

Would you support him, the nominee of the party? Absolutely.

Jane Coston (22:47)

Look, maybe McConnell just can't get over the time Trump called him a, quote, dumb son of a bitch in 2021. Or the time Trump called him an old crow. Or the times Trump made racist comments about McConnell's wife. Who knows? But I do know that of all of the people who should not be shocked that there's gambling going on in this corrupt casino, it's Mitch McConnell. And that's the news. Before we go, imagine finding out all your friends had a sleepover without you. That's basically what happened over the weekend to Trump at China's summit, where leaders from over 20 countries including India, Iran, Russia and North Korea showed up. This week on Pod Save the World, Ben and Tommy break down what that means for global alliances. Plus, Tommy talks with journalist Jasper Nathaniel about life in the West Bank, Israel's far right push for annexation and the fading two state solution. Listen to Pod Save the World on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review and celebrate a 13 year old New Hampshire boy who caught a 177 pound halibut. And tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the massive halibut was caught off the coast of New England by a kid who weighs 50 pounds less than the fish he snagged. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and I have a question. What does one do with 177 pounds of halibut? Because that is a lot of halibut. Almost a hell of a lot of halibut. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Foer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutch. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Gina Pollack and Laura Newcombe. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. We had help with the headlines from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

Advertisement Voice 1 (25:37)

Think you know your breaking point? If you're a woman with weak bones due to osteoporosis after menopause, sadly, you may not. Women can lose up to 20% of their bone density within five to seven years after menopause, making bones weaker and more likely to break. And after the first fracture, we're five times more likely to break another bone within a year. It could happen from a simple slip or just bending to lift a bag of groceries. Don't wait for a breaking point. Visit bonebreakingpoint.com to learn about how osteoporosis medications can reduce the risk of fractures.

Advertisement Voice 2 (26:09)

Hi neighbor. Welcome to Birch Lane, a Wayfair specialty brand. Our timeless furniture and decor is hand picked and crafted to bring joy for years to come, so get ready to celebrate it all, from big holiday gatherings to everyday moments at home. Decorate the mantel, gather around the table and bring fall to every room. Plus, it's all delivered fast and free. Shop classic style for Joyful Living@birchlane.com.