Podcast Summary: What A Day – "Is This Trump's Idea of Isolationism?"

Episode Details:

• Title: Is This Trump's Idea of Isolationism?
• Host: Jane Coaston
• Guest: Saurabh Amari, US Editor for UnHerd
• Release Date: June 26, 2025

1. Introduction

In this episode of What A Day, host Jane Coaston delves into President Donald Trump's recent actions and statements regarding Iran, examining whether his approach signifies a genuine isolationist stance or belies a more interventionist policy. The discussion also explores the reactions within the MAGA movement and the broader implications for U.S. foreign policy.

2. Trump's Stance on Iran and Recent Military Actions

A. Trump’s NATO Conference Remarks

• Timestamp [00:02 - 01:00]: Jane Coaston introduces the day's topics, highlighting Ukraine’s efforts to hold Russian officials accountable and Attorney General Pam Bondi’s surprising remarks on masked federal agents during immigration raids.
• Timestamp [01:00 - 01:25]: President Trump announces at a NATO conference in the Netherlands that the U.S. will engage in talks with Iran, though he expresses skepticism about the necessity of an agreement.

B. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s Claims

• Timestamp [01:16 - 02:24]: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, echoing sentiments previously aired on Fox News, asserts that Iran's nuclear program has been "obliterated." He emphasizes the perceived failure of Iran to rebuild its nuclear capabilities, suggesting their inability to continue nuclear advancements.

C. Contrasting Views on Iran's Nuclear Program

• Timestamp [02:24 - 02:59]: Saurabh Amari challenges Hegseth’s claims, arguing that Iran’s nuclear capacity may not have been as severely impacted as the Trump administration suggests. He references a preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency analysis indicating that Iran's nuclear program is only set back by a few months.

Notable Quote:

"If you want to make an assessment of what happened at Fordo, you better get a big shovel and go really deep." — Saurabh Amari [01:25]

3. Internal Dissent Within the MAGA Movement

A. Historical Context and Current Reactions

• Timestamp [04:13 - 05:53]: Jane Coaston reflects on the MAGA movement's historical reluctance towards warfare, comparing the current resistance to intervention in Iran with Trump's past assertions of being an anti-war isolationist. She notes that despite initial opposition, both the Trump administration and prominent MAGA figures are now endorsing intervention in the Middle East.

B. Saurabh Amari on Right-Wing Factions

• Timestamp [04:36 - 05:53]: Saurabh Amari discusses the emergence of dissent within the MAGA sphere against U.S. involvement in Iran. He highlights voices from various segments of the right, including celebrities and politicians like Steve Bannon and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who opposed the strikes. Although these dissenting voices ultimately did not sway the prevailing support for intervention, their opposition reveals underlying divisions within the movement.

Notable Quote:

"It was notable that being against a war that had 93% support from Republicans in 2003 proved to be actually pretty effective." — Jane Coaston [04:30]

4. Analyzing Iran’s Position Post-Strikes

A. Resilience of the Iranian Regime

• Timestamp [05:53 - 07:17]: Saurabh Amari presents a nuanced view, arguing that despite significant military and civilian losses, the Iranian regime remains intact. He outlines three key factors contributing to Iran's resilience:
  1. Regime Preservation: The regime has survived attacks without foreign assistance, maintaining its grip on power.
  2. Nuclear Continuity: Iran likely relocated fissile material, complicating efforts to dismantle its nuclear capabilities.
  3. Domestic Consolidation: There has been strong domestic support for the regime, preventing internal uprisings.

Notable Quote:

"The Iranian regime's mentality... is regime preservation, nuclear continuity, and domestic consolidation." — Saurabh Amari [06:06]

5. Trump’s Foreign Policy: Isolationism vs. Interventionism

A. The Trump Doctrine Examined

• Timestamp [07:51 - 08:43]: Saurabh Amari references Vice President J.D. Vance's description of Trump's foreign policy as "Jacksonian," balancing between isolationism and neoconservatism. This doctrine suggests a reactive approach—opposing engagement unless directly threatened.

B. Implications of U.S.-Israel Relations

• Timestamp [08:43 - 09:39]: The discussion shifts to the dynamics of the U.S.-Israel relationship, especially in light of the recent strikes on Iran. Amari posits that Israel's ability to influence Trump’s decisions may signal a future shift in U.S. foreign policy priorities and could strain long-standing alliances.

Notable Quote:

"It’s the use of diplomacy as a kinetic ploy... to trick you." — Saurabh Amari [13:07]

6. Broader Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy and Non-Proliferation

A. Risks of Diplomacy as a Pretext for Military Action

• Timestamp [09:39 - 13:07]: Amari expresses concern that the U.S. may increasingly use diplomatic talks as a facade for military interventions. This erosion of genuine diplomacy undermines international trust and could lead other nations to pursue nuclear capabilities more aggressively, fearing unreliable U.S. commitments.

B. Future of Non-Proliferation Efforts

• Timestamp [11:21 - 13:07]: The potential for increased nuclear armament by other nations, such as Turkey, stems from a lack of trustworthy diplomatic engagement. This scenario poses significant challenges to global non-proliferation regimes and regional stability.

Notable Quote:

"That’s a big problem... and secretly, there is no principled answer to that, it's a floating signifier." — Saurabh Amari [10:08]

7. Conclusion

In this episode, Jane Coaston and Saurabh Amari dissect President Trump's recent actions concerning Iran, questioning whether they align with an isolationist doctrine or reveal a more complex foreign policy strategy. The conversation highlights internal conflicts within the MAGA movement, the resilience of the Iranian regime, and the potential long-term consequences for U.S. diplomacy and global non-proliferation efforts.

Notable Closing Quote:

"There is no principled answer to that, it's a floating signifier. And basically, Trump gets to define and redefine it at will." — Saurabh Amari [10:08]

This comprehensive discussion provides listeners with an in-depth analysis of the current state of U.S. foreign policy under President Trump, the internal dynamics of the MAGA movement, and the broader implications for international relations and security.