Jane Coston (3:16)

Right. I just keep thinking about how there's a real tendency for people our age to come in and be like, should we be like the cool mom? Where it's like, no, no, no. Those rules are for other people, but we're cool. And then it turns out that actually rules are cool sometimes.

Amanda Littman (3:30)

Boundaries are great.

Jane Coston (3:32)

Huge fan. But do you think those hurdles are unique to younger people, or do you think it just looks different now how we are perceiving what leadership is?

Amanda Littman (3:40)

I think a lot of these are challenges leaders of all ages have faced, like, over millennia. But I think some of the tactics of the modern era make it really different. Like, you can't have a zoom meeting without being afraid that it's going to go viral because someone could be recording it or screenshotting it. Like, that wasn't true even five or ten years ago. Similarly, you know, our bosses that we had five or 10 years ago didn't have to think about how they posted on Instagram and what their employees might see because there wasn't, like, a thing that you had to do. Similarly, like, what does it mean to show up at work with tattoos or different kind of hair or, like, wear fun earrings? Like, the changing definition of professionalism has really expanded the models of what you can look like, which I think is a good thing, but also can be really scary.

Jane Coston (4:24)

Absolutely. And one of the points you make that I really want to drill into a little bit more is the importance of bringing your authentic self to a leadership role. But, like, not yourself self, which you and I, I think we both know what that means. You talk about it in the book, but what do you mean by your authentic self? And why Is that an important quality? But it's also not sometimes what we think it means.

Amanda Littman (4:47)

You know, I think that especially like influencers, celebrities, politicians, who we feel like are being authentic have taught us what a particular way that that looks like. And we don't always, like, break it down to realize, no, no, no, this is a performance. Even the people we think are being their true selves, like, they are still self regulating. They're still like choosing silence sometimes. And that doesn't mean they're not being who they are. They're just being intentional. I think a lot of folks sort of get this intuitively once you start to explain it. But your job is not to be your true self. It's to be your best self, especially when your leadership is at work. And that sometimes means moderating to know what your team needs to hear. Because actually, and I think this is the most important thing about all of this is like, your leadership is not about you. It's about your team and about what they need from you. And that sometimes means you have to adjust a little. And that's okay. That's not faking it. That's strategic.

Jane Coston (5:38)

Yeah. And how do you find that line in politics? You've done so much important work through run for something. And it feels like voters are really thirsty for authenticity. And I think you're seeing this now where a lot of people in politics have decided that swearing makes you authentic. But there is a degree to which we actually don't want authentic authenticity. So for people who are interested in pursuing politics, how do you make yourself accessible and transparent without oversharing yourself too? Because that's not just off putting to other people. It's also tough on you.

Amanda Littman (6:14)

Yeah, I think the, like, psychological harm that it can do when you give your full self to your audience, your followers, your community, your constituents, your voters. Like, it means when they don't like you, which, like even the most popular politician hypothetically has like a 70% approval rating, a 60% approval rating, which doesn't even really happen anymore. That still means 30 or 40% of people don't like them. And it can be really hard to take that mentally if you have given everything you have to those people. So you know what Rumpers, I think tells our candidates is like, be really clear about what you believe, know what your values are, know sort of what you want your brand to be. Like, what are the personal parts of your life that you want to share with people? You know, maybe it's your sports fandom or your hobbies or like your exercise workouts or your family, whatever it is, and then know what you don't want to share. And don't be afraid to hold firm around those boundaries.

Jane Coston (7:07)

Yeah. And I think that we're seeing some pushback to the share everything world by millennials who are exhausted by it because we've been doing it since we were teenagers. Oh, I just started thinking about the overwhelmed and, you know, Gen Zers who may not have just experienced sharing their lives themselves, but even having their parents share their lives. There's so much emotional labor involved in being online and performing online. But I think especially in public facing jobs like media or politics or business, in some cases you kind of have to be. So for would be leaders who are worried about how to share, not share, what to share, what not to share. Do you have any advice?

Amanda Littman (7:46)

I have so much advice. There's a whole chapter just on social media specifically. You know, I think about like the Gen Zers understood this intuitively of the idea of a finsta. You have a private Instagram just for your friends because, you know, there's some parts of you you don't want to give to the world, but you do want to give to the people you are intimate with. And knowing that not everything requires a personal statement, you don't have to like announce your endorsement or announce your stance on everything. That doesn't mean you don't care. That doesn't mean you don't have values. But like really being conscientious that everything you post online is part of a strategic communications tool, doesn't mean fake, it just means intentional.

Jane Coston (8:23)

And I want to talk a little bit more about politics because you've talked a lot and worked a lot on how Trump's return to office has driven a wave of first time interest in running for office. It's something that we saw as, as you well know back in 2016, 2017, 2018, which helped lead to a blue wave and to, I would argue, Biden's election in 2020. What are you seeing on the ground this time?

Amanda Littman (8:47)

So in the six months since Election Day, which last week marked six months since Election Day, feels wild, Run for Something has seen more people sign up to run for office than we did in the entire first three years of Trump's first term, we've had about 45,000 people raise their hands that join our pipeline, which now numbers over 200,000 young people. It is an unprecedented surge in organic interest that makes me really excited for what is possible in 2026, because I think we've now seen in the last couple special elections, the Wisconsin Supreme Court raised that when we run, we can win. So we gotta run and field candidates everywhere because the battlefield could be really, really big.

Jane Coston (9:27)

Now, I know your organization focuses a lot on down ballot races, which I think is fantastic, because I think that that can be often some of the most important places for political decision making. But I think one of the barriers that a lot of young people see and even people like, I'm 37 and I'm thinking in politics terms, I'm a child, because Congress is dominated by people who are much older than me and much older than Gen Zers, and they may have held their job for decades. And it's really easy to feel overwhelmed by those forces that entrench the status quo of incumbency. So what are you telling people who feel daunted by that?

Amanda Littman (10:02)

One, you can do this. So I think it just like straight up words of encouragement, you can do this. Two, politics is like everything else, that the more you do it, the better you get at it. Nobody is born a politician the same way nobody's born a writer or a musician. You become a politician by putting your name on the ballot. Local races are where most of these politicians got their start. Very few people start right with Congress. And I would argue Congress doesn't seem that fun to begin with. And these local positions, like, you don't need as much money as you think. I think that 75% of school board races cost $1,000 or less, 85% cost $5,000 or less. That's a lot of money. But it's also not the millions you see being talked about with congressional campaigns. Most people, the number of voters you need to talk to is in the thousands. If you're willing to work hard and knock doors, you can absolutely outwork an incumbent, especially who probably doesn't see you coming.

Jane Coston (10:51)

So how does the next generation force change? When those who are in power for reasons we could get into, that they aren't ready to relinquish it, how do you do it?

Amanda Littman (11:01)

You run against them. You force the conversation about the issues in which they're not doing a good job enough. So whether it's not holding town halls, not fighting hard enough, not investing back in community, you go where they aren't, and you go where they are, which just feels like sort of contradictory advice, but both being present in the community and the places the incumbent isn't showing up, and then also making sure that they can't escape you, like, go to the forums, demand presence, call them out for being afraid of you and then know that you're going to have to create a little bit of productive conflict and that you can't be afraid of that. Especially in a primary challenge where you probably agree on most things, you probably share the values you you've really got to be able to present an alternative vision for what the community could get if you win. I think that's the final piece of really any good campaign is it's about voters, not about you. That's why do they want you to win, not why do you want to win, which is because winning is great and losing sucks.

Jane Coston (11:54)

Amanda, thank you so much for joining me.

Amanda Littman (11:57)

Thank you for having me. And I'm glad you appreciated the book.

Jane Coston (12:01)

That was my conversation with Amanda Lippman, co founder and president of Run for Something. Her new book, when we're in the Next Generation's Guide to Leadership, is out tomorrow and you can order it now@crooked.com books or wherever you get your books. We'll also throw a link in our show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads what a Day is brought to you by bookshop.org whether you're searching for an incisive history that helps you make sense of this moment, a novel that sweeps you away, or the perfect gift for a loved one, bookshop.org has you covered. When you purchase from bookshop.org, you're supporting more than 2,000 local independent bookstores across the country, ensuring they'll continue to foster culture, curiosity and a love of reading for generations to come. And big news. Bookshop.org has launched an ebook app. You can now support local independent bookstores. Even when you read digitally, use code WAD to get 10% off your next order. @bookshop.org that's code wadookshop.org in golf, precision.

Stephen Miller (13:15)

Is everything, on and off the course. PGA of America chose advanced 5G solutions from T Mobile for Business for smooth operations and seamless transactions. Together we enhance ticketing and concessions for better fan experiences from gate to green. This is pro level efficiency. This is PGA of America with T Mobile for Business. Take your business further@t mobile.com now. This podcast is supported by Comedy Central's the Daily Show. When major headlines are coming fast and furious from every direction, it's impossible to know which way to turn. Look to Jon Stewart and the Daily show news team every weeknight to keep the news on the straight and narrow, no matter how twisted it all seems to get the Daily show new weeknights at 11:10 Central on Comedy Central and next day on Paramount.

Amanda Littman (14:06)

Plus.

Jane Coston (14:09)

Here'S what else we're following today.

Amanda Littman (14:11)

Head of Lines.

Stephen Miller (14:16)

So we do expect a 10% baseline tariff to be in place for the foreseeable future. But don't by the silly arguments that the US Consumer pays businesses. Their job is to try to sell to the American consumer and domestically produced products are not going to have that tariff.

Jane Coston (14:36)

So the foreigners, so who's going to.

Stephen Miller (14:37)

Eat the tariffs finally have to compete. They're going to have to compete. What happens is the businesses and the countries primarily eat the tariff.

Amanda Littman (14:46)

Sure.

Jane Coston (14:47)

Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was quick to defend President Trump's tariffs when asked if the baseline 10% tariff in the framework framework for the US UK deal announced last week would stay in place. The secretary spoke with CNN's Dana Bash on Sunday about taxes on imports, inflation and trade deals. You know everyone's three favorite things. Just a reminder, consumers seeing an increase in prices is not a silly argument. While companies pay the tariffs, the costs are often passed along because businesses would like to make money because that's how capitalism works. Most economists say that ultimately consumers, meaning us everyday Americans, end up paying more. So what about those across the board tariffs on the entire world? Well, they're not going anywhere either. Is that 10% tariff kind of a baseline in the way you're approaching these other countries that you're negotiating with?

Stephen Miller (15:39)

Yes, we will not go below 10%. That is just not a place we're going to go.

Jane Coston (15:44)

Lautnik also commented on the US China trade negotiations, saying things, quote, feel really good but didn't go into further detail. Although in an interview with Fox News Sunday, Lutnick did acknowledge that the 145% and 125% tariffs the US and China have on each other are, quote, too high to do business. I'm happy to report that we've made substantial progress between the United States and China in the very important trade talks. Speaking of China and tariffs, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant appeared confident after a weekend of trade negotiations with a Chinese delegation in Switzerland. It was their first face to face meeting since President Trump spiked tariffs on Chinese products. Besant made a brief statement Sunday with U.S. trade Representative Ambassador Jameson Greer by his side. The pair touted progress but didn't offer up too many details. Besant said more info would be announced today, but I can tell you that the talks were productive. We had the vice premier, two vice ministers who were integrally involved, Ambassador Jamison and myself. Riveting stuff, Secretary. Riveting stuff. Anyway, Greer told reporters that maybe our differences with China were not as big as they seemed. An interesting take on countries that have so far doled out over 100% tariffs to one another. But Greer appeared to suggest that a deal of some kind was made. Just remember why we're here in the first place. The United States has a massive $1.2 trillion trade deficit, so the President declared a national emergency and imposed tariffs. And we're confident that the deal we struck with our Chinese partners will help us to resolve work toward resolving that national emergency. President Trump commented on the negotiation Saturday in a Truth Social post, saying many things discussed, much agreed to a total reset negotiated in a friendly but constructive manner. What the President meant by a total reset remains to be seen. Also, what many things were discussed. The Chinese delegation called the talks constructive and said it would be issuing a joint statement with the US today. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday invited Russian President Vladimir Putin to meet with him face to face for direct peace talks in Turkey after a chaotic weekend of back and forth between the two countries. This all started Saturday when Ukraine, along with other European countries, demanded that Russia agree to an unconditional 30 day ceasefire or face, quote, massive new sanctions. Russia rejected the ceasefire. Instead, Putin proposed that Ukrainian and Russian officials meet directly for peace talks in Turkey. On Thursday, Trump called on Ukraine to, quote, immediately accept the proposal. In a post on Truth Social Sunday, the President wrote that the meeting would allow European leaders in the US to know if a deal between Russia and Ukraine is actually possible. He added that he's, quote, starting to doubt that Ukraine wants to make a deal. Zelensky responded, saying that he is willing to meet with Putin himself. He tweeted Sunday, there is no point in prolonging the killings and I will be waiting for Putin in Turkey on Thursday. Personally, I hope that this time the Russians will not look for excuses. As of our recording Sunday night, Putin has yet to respond to Zelenskyy's offer. Ramessa Ozturk was released on bail Friday after six weeks in a Louisiana immigration detention center. The Turkish doctoral student at Tufts University faces deportation after the White House accused her of engaging in, quote, activities in support of Hamas. Ostrich was arrested by immigration authorities in late March and her student visa was revoked. Ostrich's lawyers say she was targeted over an op ed she co wrote for Tufts student newspaper last year criticizing the university's response to pro Palestinian student protests. The federal government has cited this op ed, an op ed she co wrote in its case against her. She has not been charged with any crime. A federal judge in Vermont said Friday Austerk's detention was a violation of First Amendment rights and quote, potentially chills the speech of the millions and millions of individuals in this country who are not citizens. He ordered her immediate release. But her legal battle isn't over. She's still fighting the Trump administration's efforts to deport her. Ostrich spoke at a news conference at Boston Logan International Airport, where she thanked her supporters and said she will continue fighting her case in court.

Amanda Littman (20:09)

America is the greatest democracy in the world and I believe in those values that we share. I have faith in the American system of justice.

Jane Coston (20:20)

Meanwhile, White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller says that the Trump administration is considering suspending habeas corpus because he does not have faith in the American system of justice. Habeas corpus is a provision in the Constitution that grants people, including non citizens, the right to challenge their detention in court. Miller spoke to reporters at the White House on Friday.

Amanda Littman (20:41)

Well, the Constitution is clear and that.

Jane Coston (20:43)

Of course is the supreme law of the land, that the privilege of the.

Amanda Littman (20:47)

Writ of habeas corpus can be suspended in a time of invasion. So I would say that's an option.

Jane Coston (20:52)

We'Re actively looking at. To put things very mildly, this would be really fucking bad. Ostruck challenged her detention with a writ of habeas corpus. Habeas petitions are at the center of many lawsuits against the White House's deportation efforts. And you can't scream invasion because you want to send people to prison and remove their right to know why. Sources told CNN that President Trump has been personally involved in discussions about potentially suspending habeas corpus. But the answer to the age old question can he legally do that? Is unclear. And that's the news. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate good examples of righteous pettiness and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading, I'm not just about how in both Idaho and Utah, the state government banned non official flags like the rainbow Pride flag from flying at schools and governmental buildings. So the capitals of both states, Boise and Salt Lake City, simply made the pride flag an official city flag. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@cricket.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and this show appreciates pettiness wielded for the right reason. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. I'm Dr. Jenna Ashton, your host for season two of the Visibility Gap, a podcast presented by Cigna Healthcare. Throughout this season, we'll be tackling something vital the Women's Health Gap. We'll hear from real people and experts as we unpack important topics like maternal health, menopause and heart disease. Listen in and download the new season wherever you get your podcasts.

Stephen Miller (23:28)

Work Management Platforms ugh. Endless onboarding IT bottlenecks admin requests but what if things were different? Monday.com is different. No lengthy onboarding, beautiful reports in minutes, custom workflows you can build on your own, easy to use prompt, free AI.

Amanda Littman (23:49)

Huh.

Stephen Miller (23:50)

Turns out you can love a workflow management platform. Monday.com the first work platform you'll love to use.