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- [00:00]
Matt Berg
Foreign
- [00:04]
Jane Coaston
It's Friday, April 3rd. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a day. The show learning that according to Bloomberg News, President Donald Trump will announce a budget today with a massive buildup in defense spending, courtesy of cuts to domestic programs. Because when your approval is below 40%, why not try to go lower? On today's show, the world scrambles to figure out how to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. And a poll finds people glued to social media are less likely to think democracy is the best form of government. I wonder which right wing influencer told them that. But let's start with the exit of Attorney General Pam Bondi. Yes, Pam Bondi, Epstein binders enthusiast and Trump toady, is out of a job after multiple media reports stating she was headed for the green pastures of somewhere else. President Trump officially announced her departure on Truth Social Thursday. He wrote in part, we love Pam. And she will be transitioning to a much needed and important new job in the private sector to be announced at a date in the near future. Which means that unlike former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, Bondi didn't get another administration position cold. And that's after she went to the mat for Trump over the Epstein files during a House Judiciary Committee meeting in February.
- [01:26]
Unidentified Speaker (possibly a guest or co-host)
This administration released over 3 million pages of documents. Over 3 million. And Donald Trump signed that law to release all of those documents. He is the most transparent president in the nation's history. And none of them, none of them asked Merrick Garland over the last four years one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why? Because Donald Trump, the Dow, the Dow right now is over. The dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. You're a great stock trader, as I hear. Raskin.
- [02:11]
Jane Coaston
Well, on Thursday, the Dow was at around 46,000. Maybe that's why she got fired. So, so why is Bondi getting pushed out of her role as attorney general? Was it the Epstein files debacle or her inability to successfully prosecute Trump's enemies? To find out, I spoke with Ryan Barber. He's a reporter covering the Justice Department for the Wall Street Journal. We connected on Thursday afternoon after Trump's announcement. Ryan, welcome to Water Day.
- [02:37]
Ryan Barber
Thanks so much for having me.
- [02:38]
Jane Coaston
Now, there have been reports that Trump has been unhappy with Pambandi for a while. What do you think was the final straw here?
- [02:46]
Ryan Barber
So that's actually the big mystery hanging over today. When we last heard that President Trump was becoming more vocal in venting his frustrations, it was actually back in the December, January timeframe where we were coming off of these prosecutions of his perceived adversaries, namely former FBI Director James Comey, New York Attorney General Letitia James. Those cases had just been dismissed with judge ruling that the prosecutor behind them was installed improperly. And then prosecutors kind of went flailing about trying twice, failing twice to revive at least the case against Letitia James. So that gave us kind of a more recent headline, something in the news about setbacks that DOJ was facing on something that was a priority for President Trump. You know, he's, he's of course, also wanted more scrutiny of, of the 2020 election. And a lot of people in the conservative world, Trump allies, have said, where are the special counsels to be deputized to look into these things in this timeframe? There's a little. There's not so much that's obvious to be aggravating him anew. And, in fact, we're hearing from some people today that Bondi felt actually on relatively stable footing, all things being relative, given the tumultuous year that we've had at least covering the Justice Department, let alone, in her case, leading it.
- [04:06]
Jane Coaston
Bondi is the second Trump Cabinet member to go this term at least. But, like, there are certainly other people who have been getting negative press, I'm thinking of FBI Director Kash Patel or my personal favorite, Labor Secretary Laurie Chavez Darimer. So why did Bondi get the X specifically? Like Chavez, Daremer's husband isn't allowed in the Department of Labor building.
- [04:29]
Ryan Barber
I think it's truly a testament to how near and dear the Justice Department and what the Justice Department can do is, is to Trump's heart this time around. One thing that we've been hearing from many people in and outside the administration is what a difference two indictments make. He faced two different federal cases from the Justice Department in the time that he was outside of the White House. And that just left this impression that he needed this retribution against people he perceived as behind a lot of those legal troubles. And the first place to look was the Justice Department, where we saw the past year really being marked by, by so many firings, so many forced resignations, other, other resignations. There really has been an exodus that some are, some today are referring to as a purge. But we, we're just seeing it as this place where he had these years to develop a grievance against. It was an agency that really sat near, if not at the top of the list, as one that was catching his interest, that he was following that, he wanted deliverables out of.
- [05:33]
Jane Coaston
Okay, Trump is the count of Monte Cristo. I get it. But as you mentioned, Bondi attempted to prosecute Trump's enemies, but you reported with your colleagues that Trump basically felt like she wasn't doing it well enough. But I have to ask, and this is a weird question, could she have actually done the thing that he wanted her to do, or is this a situation of Trump being upset that his administration cannot prosecute people without legitimate cases?
- [06:01]
Ryan Barber
It is the best possible question today. And Bondi's allies today are singing it from the top of their lungs, which is, there is no Attorney General that could have threaded this needle. At the end of the day, the Justice Department cannot act unilaterally when it wants to bring cases. It needs to seek indictments with sign off from everyday citizens impaneled on grand juries. It needs to get through judges who review motions to dismiss and review legal arguments for why cases shouldn't proceed, proceed. And a lot of those steps trip them up along the way, preventing them from acting on their desires even when they did in fact, go forward, albeit perhaps a little more slowly than the President would have desired.
- [06:49]
Jane Coaston
I've been thinking a lot today about the 10 years of Trump's previous attorneys general, Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr. Is the way Trump dealt with Bondi different? I'm thinking about that Truth Social post that was likely supposed to be a dm. You know, where he's saying, pam, what about Comey? What about Adam Shifty, Schiff? What's happening? Nothing's being done. Is this just how he's been the whole time? Or did he think Bondi was specifically in her job to do his bidding.
- [07:17]
Ryan Barber
What you just said answers it, which is the first time around, he not only had attorneys general who were more willing to say no. In the case of Jeff Sessions, the big highlight there was his recusal from the Russia investigation, letting the Deputy Attorney General, Rod Rosenstein, effectively be the Attorney general for the purpose of it, appoint Special Counsel Robert Mueller. With Bill Barr, we saw, we saw him being public about a lack of evidence of fraud in the election that Trump lost. Now comes Trump administration number two. And who does he pick to lead the Justice Department? Not just in the number one spot, but in the number two spot are two former personal lawyers of his. They say personnel is policy, and that's really game, set, match in terms of what you need to understand about what he was looking for in his Justice Department leadership, which were going to be people who were more responsive to him. People who were willing to pick up the phone, act on what he wanted and pick up the phone in the first place, as opposed to adhering to these more customary traditional safeguards where, yes, the President can set broad setting policies for law enforcement, but doesn't roll up his sleeves and get down in the nitty gritty of individual cases, certainly not calling up cases against, against political adversaries that he's singling out in a social media post that he intends as a private message.
- [08:39]
Jane Coaston
I think that that gets to my next question, which is in his true social announcing Bondi's exit to private employment, Trump named Bondi's immediate successor, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. As you mentioned, a former Trump attorney. But have there been any rumblings of who Trump may want to take over officially?
- [08:57]
Ryan Barber
Yeah, there have been rumblings that his current EPA head, Lee Zeldin, is somebody that he has discussed and why? A very good question that we are seeking the answer to. He has conservative bona fides. He came up, certainly in Republican political circles, you don't reach such a high level role in the Trump administration, especially the second time around, without doing so. But it does raise some questions that we're certainly keenly interested in. And it really is an open question about how long Todd Blanch, again his former personal criminal defense lawyer, how long he has in the seat and how willing Trump is to kind of, I don't want to say endure, but to almost tolerate that continuity from the Pam Bondi tenure that he's just ended. Because in a lot of ways, Todd Blanche really owns a lot of what's happened this year. They have served concurrently. He has been the number two to her number one. So it's a, it's an open question, one of the many open questions we have. Just hours after this ouster became official.
- [10:01]
Jane Coaston
I think that the thing I was seeing, you know, I spend a lot of time reading conservative and right wing media and they've been out on Bondi since the Epstein Binders debacle. So we have to talk about the Epstein files, of course, her decision to give a bunch of right wing influencers copies of the Epstein files, which turned out to already be publicly available. That turned off a bunch of people who tweet a lot of. But the Epstein files themselves put Bondi in hot water, not just with Trump's base, but with pretty much everyone. One, how much of a role do you think the Epstein files played in this firing, if any? And two, will her firing make it easier for Congress to force her to testify about the Files. We've already seen a tweet from Florida Democratic Representative Maxwell Frost saying that she still has to go before Congress. Is that more likely to happen now?
- [10:51]
Ryan Barber
So the binder episode, to begin this lengthy saga, it is now referred to by some in the White House as the original sin. It was a really early sign of a problem that would really plague Pam Bondi, who came into the job as a communicator. She kind of rose up in Florida's political circles as a prosecutor who was going on TV and communicating, almost being that office's spokesperson. So she came in as somebody who was supposed to be comfortable on television and communicating in that format. But what the White House saw time and again was a communication style that tended to over promise and underdeliver with key segments of the MAGA base, which it turned out the administration had very much miscalculated in terms of how much they would care about the Epstein matter in the first place. I mean, White House doj, everybody was kind of, I think, a little surprised by how difficult it was to appease the this or satisfy this appetite for more information about this deceased sex offender. After the binders episode, White House aides pulled her aside. They said, hey, this is really not helpful. We really don't want to be stoking the embers of attention on this. We don't need these MAGA influencers coming over here looking at binders, certainly without much notice to us. And then what happened from there were just continued questions. DOJ not wanting to release more, Congress forcing them to do so. And then we saw the rollout of those, the public release of those files get bungled in a big way with, you know, a lot of identifying information about victims, a lot of photographs being made public when they should have been redacted, and a lot of redactions creating the, you know, seeming to protect the powerful. And of course, the whole point here is in part whether the government has been protecting these powerful people. So it just created a complete message optically for everyone, not to mention tangibly for Epstein's victims. As for her deposition, this is a little bit of an open question about whether she is now still on the hook to appear for the April 14 deposition. I think a lot of people are thinking that she may point to this to try to delay her questioning. But as you just mentioned about Congressman Frost, a lot of people are interested in her, not for her official capacity. They don't want just any Attorney general to sit in the chair and answer questions under oath. They want the one who is in charge of the Justice Department at the relevant time. Time will tell whether she tries to make any argument about the fact that she's no longer in the Justice Department.
- [13:29]
Jane Coaston
Ryan, thank you so much for joining me.
- [13:32]
Ryan Barber
Thank you so much for having me. This was great.
- [13:34]
Jane Coaston
That was my conversation with Ryan Barber, Wall Street Journal reporter covering the Justice Department. We'll link to his work in the show. Notes Pam Bondi will not be forgotten, and it also seems like she will not be missed. But I will miss you while we take a short break for ads. If you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. We'll be back soon. This episode of what a Day is brought to you by Wildgreen. Wildgreen is the first baked from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. Unlike many store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients that you can pronounce in a slow fermentation process that can be easier on your belly and richer in nutrients and antioxidants. Plus, all items conveniently bake in 25 minutes or less with no thawing required. Wild Grain's boxes are fully customizable. In addition to their variety box, they have a gluten free box, a vegan box and a new protein box. Wild Grain makes the best chocolate chip cookies ever. And that's just the start of what you could get sent to your doorstep. Imagine having fresh bakery quality bread, pastries and pasta at home without any trips to the store. And don't just take my word for it. They have over 40,000 five star reviews and have been voted the best food subscription box by USA TODAY for three years in a row. For a limited time, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box plus free Croissants for Life when you go to wildgreen.com wad to start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free Croissants for Life when YOU visit wildgreen.com wade or you can use promo code WAD at checkout. What a Day is brought to you by Willy's Remedy. What kind of moment is perfect for Willy's? Unwinding after a long day or socializing without feeling like you need to drink alcohol, you can get all of the fun and relaxation of a night out without any negative side effects. Willy's is a premium THC infused social tonic crafted by the legendary Willie Nelson. Inspired by Willy's Way of living where peace flows freely and hangovers are a thing of the past. It is a low calorie, low sugar alcohol alternative that actually works, delivering a fast acting, euphoric social buzz without the regrets that can come with alcohol. Willy's social tonics come in 5mg and 10mg doses with a best in class flavor experience. So smooth and balanced you barely realize you're drinking a THC product at all. You can enjoy the tonics as a shot sipped over ice or mixed into your favorite mocktail. One shot of Willy's helps you relax, unwind and de stress. Perfect for taking the edge off at the end of a long day or socializing with friends, Willy's offers the kind of feeling that makes good company even better. Willy's sold out three times in the first six months with over 50,000 happy customers and they just restocked. Willy's ships directly to your doorstep in 40/states. Order now@drinkwillys.com and use code WAD for 20% off of your first order and free shipping on orders over $95. And enjoy life in the high country.
- [16:34]
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- [17:04]
Jane Coaston
Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines Crooked's Washington correspondent Matt Berg is here to talk about the big stories. Happy Friday, Matt.
- [17:15]
Matt Berg
Happy Friday.
- [17:17]
Jane Coaston
So three things in life are certain these days, Matt. Death, taxes, and the Department of Homeland Security being in shutdown limbo. I don't understand, but Trump is sort of trying to solve this big problem. The DHS shutdown, not death.
- [17:32]
Matt Berg
Yeah, on Thursday, Trump posted another one of his truth socials saying that he's going to sign an order to pay all DHS employees, which is similar to what he did last week, which was just focusing on TSA agents. But there are some big questions remaining about how this would even work.
- [17:50]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, like where is the money coming from? Like what is he paying them with?
- [17:56]
Matt Berg
That's the big unknown thing here is that Trump's TSA order last week was funded by the Bay Beautiful Law, but it's not clear if there's enough money left to fund the other parts of dhs, which include, you know, Coast Guard and CyberSecurity workers and FEMA.
- [18:13]
Jane Coaston
Also, Congress is still out, and I believe that they are supposed to play some role in this. But once again, it's another example of Trump trying to solve a problem he created with money he may not actually have access to. But speaking of attempting to solve problems Trump created across the pond, the United Kingdom is trying to help by hosting talks Thursday with more than 40 countries on how to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Guess who didn't attend the US which is why the Strait of Hormuz is closed.
- [18:46]
Matt Berg
Yeah, I think everyone could have seen this coming. The meeting came days after Trump just told these countries to, you know, go and get their own oil if they
- [18:53]
Jane Coaston
care so much, which is a real go get your own ball that I've kicked into somebody else's yard vibe. But again, also, that's way easier said than done, again, because of the United States.
- [19:07]
Matt Berg
Yeah, there are a lot of big risks here. This we're talking about is, you know, going through the Strait of Hormuz where Iran's forces have been launching missiles and might have even laid mines there.
- [19:19]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. In theory, these countries could make a deal with Iran to open the Strait, but there's no way Iran's going to come to the table as long as the US Keeps attacking, because why would they. Like what would even be the point,
- [19:30]
Matt Berg
especially after Trump's speech on Wednesday night where he had a lot of strong words for Iran. Let's take a listen to the clip here.
- [19:39]
Donald Trump
We are going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks. We're going to bring them back to the Stone Ages where they belong.
- [19:48]
Matt Berg
It sure doesn't seem like the Strait is going to be open anytime soon, but, I mean, who knows? Maybe Europe could get something together.
- [19:55]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. It also is telling that Trump wants to wind down the war by bombing Iran into the Stone Age. And then he thinks that Iran should open the Strait of Hormuz. Like, why would anyone country do this? That's not how any country has ever worked except in the imagination of Donald Trump.
- [20:14]
Matt Berg
Yeah, there's a lot that we could dig into in that speech, and I don't know if I want to or if we have the time. But on a different note, Jane, I love a good poll, and I know that you love a good poll, and there's a new one out that caught my eye about people who are way too online.
- [20:30]
Jane Coaston
You mean like me and you?
- [20:33]
Matt Berg
I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you're projecting. You know, I'm, I'm never online.
- [20:38]
Jane Coaston
I could be. Who could say?
- [20:40]
Matt Berg
Anyways, the poll that I'm talking about was conducted last summer by the Charles F. Kettering foundation and Gallup. It found that Americans who spend more than five hours on social media per day are less supportive of democracy.
- [20:52]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, that explains a lot if you just check Twitter over the last three years or so. The poll also found that people who spend that much time on social media are also more likely to feel like their opinions are valued, which is worrying.
- [21:08]
Matt Berg
Yeah, that is what stuck out to me the most, too. I mean, so you're saying that people who are spending way too much time on social media feel less democratic and at the same time they think that their opinions are being valued. That does not sound like a winning combo, especially right now.
- [21:25]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. Matt, I think we should go outside and touch some grass. Thank you for joining me, as always, but let's get out of here.
- [21:32]
Matt Berg
Yeah, let's. Thanks for having me.
- [21:34]
Jane Coaston
And that's the news. Before we go. If you're trying to make sense of whatever the hell is happening in Trump world right now, New Hysteria has you covered this week. Aaron and Alyssa dig into Secretary of War little boy Pete Hegseth, meddling in military promotions, Congress, poking around prediction markets, and yes, the extremely weird situation involving Kristi Noem's husband. Then they take you inside Trump's latest obsession, a truly unhinged plan for a ballroom that feels less Architectural Digest and more architectural distress. Listen to Hysteria new episodes every week. Wherever you get your podcasts, that's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, enjoy a fun comparison from California Republican Representative Darrell Issa, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how Issa joined Fox Business on Thursday to explain how Trump's Wednesday address reminded him of another two term Republican president.
- [22:38]
Donald Trump
You heard from the first president since Richard Nixon who set about ending wars and did not want to have protracted wars but would use large amounts of force to bring them to a close. And by the way, we launched a mission to the moon, the first one since Richard Nixon in 1972. So I do believe that President Trump is showing the kind of leadership that we've been without for a long time.
- [23:05]
Jane Coaston
Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston, and I wonder how all that ended up for Richard Nixon. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Foer. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We have production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison. And our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.