Public Health Scrambles To Figure Out Trump's Health Orders

Summary

Summary of "Public Health Scrambles To Figure Out Trump's Health Orders" - What A Day Podcast

Date Released: January 28, 2025
Host: Jane Coaston
Produced by: Crooked Media

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Introduction

In the January 28, 2025 episode of What A Day, host Jane Coaston delves into the tumultuous landscape of U.S. public health under the Trump administration. The episode, titled "Public Health Scrambles To Figure Out Trump's Health Orders," explores the abrupt directives issued by the administration amidst a severe H5N1 bird flu outbreak. Coaston engages with Dr. Abdul El Sayed, an epidemiologist and Wayne County Health Officer, to unpack the implications of these orders on public health infrastructure and research.

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Trump Administration's Public Health Directives

Immediate Suspension of WHO Collaboration

The episode opens with Coaston highlighting a significant upheaval: the Trump administration's sudden directive for federal health workers to cease collaboration with the World Health Organization (WHO), effective immediately ([00:03]). This move follows President Trump's executive order initiated the previous week to withdraw the U.S. from the WHO—a decision many anticipated would be phased.

Halting External Communications

Compounding the withdrawal, the administration mandated that federal health agencies halt virtually all external communications, including website updates and the dissemination of scientific reports ([00:25]). Although framed as a temporary measure set to expire on February 1st, these orders have resulted in:

• Cancellation of Conferences: Essential gatherings for knowledge exchange and policy formulation have been called off.
• Postponement of Studies: Critical research projects, potentially lifesaving, are left in limbo.
• Disruption of Life-Saving Research: Ongoing investigations and data collection efforts facing unprecedented delays.

Interview with Dr. Abdul El Sayed

To shed light on the real-world impacts of these directives, Coaston interviews Dr. Abdul El Sayed ([01:48]). Dr. El Sayed paints a bleak picture of the public health community's morale, likening it to "the funeral of your favorite great aunt" ([02:21]). He expresses profound frustration over the uncertainty surrounding funding and the inability to communicate effectively amidst the administration's restrictions.

Key Concerns Raised by Dr. El Sayed:

• Operational Paralysis: Public health workers are grappling with how to proceed under restrictive orders.
• Funding Uncertainty: Potential slashes to funding threaten long-term public health initiatives, especially in marginalized communities.
• Impact on Undocumented Workers: The fear of immigration raids deters livestock workers from seeking medical attention for H5N1, exacerbating the outbreak's spread.

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Implications of Withdrawing from the World Health Organization

Dr. El Sayed underscores the critical role of the WHO in identifying and containing emerging pathogens. He explains that the withdrawal stymies global efforts to monitor and respond to diseases like H5N1, which have the potential to evolve into pandemics ([09:10]).

Notable Insights:

• Global Health Security: "We don't know where the next very serious pathogen is going to emerge. Removing ourselves from the WHO limits our ability to protect our own people by protecting them abroad."
• Historical Precedent: Citing the Ebola epidemic, Dr. El Sayed highlights how U.S. collaboration with the WHO was instrumental in containing the virus and preventing its spread to the mainland ([09:10]).

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Impact on Public Health Workforce and Research

The administration's gag order on federal health agencies has far-reaching consequences:

• Suppression of Scientific Information: The cessation of updates and reports means that public health officials are left "flying blind" ([06:17]).
• Erosion of Trust: The directive undermines the free flow of scientific data, essential for informed decision-making ([07:39]).
• Operational Challenges: Local health departments struggle to coordinate responses without federal support, as demonstrated by Dr. El Sayed's experiences with H5N1 in Michigan ([07:45]).

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Additional News Updates

After the in-depth discussion on public health, Coaston transitions to other significant national news:

1. Trump's Executive Orders on Military Policy ([13:21])

• Transgender Ban in Military: President Trump announced another round of executive orders targeting U.S. military policies, including a ban on transgender individuals serving in the armed forces. This mirrors previous measures that favored cisgender over transgender service members.

  "Header lines to ensure that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world, we will get transgender ideology the hell out of our military. It's going to be gone." – Donald Trump ([13:21])

• Reinstatement of Vaccine Policy: The orders also aim to reinstate service members who were previously discharged for refusing COVID-19 vaccinations.

• Elimination of DEI Initiatives: Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs are slated for removal across the military, a move supported by newly appointed Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth.

  "As the Secretary of Defense... ensure these orders are complied with rapidly and quickly." – Pete Hegseth ([14:22])

2. DOJ Prosecutors Fired ([15:31])

The Department of Justice (DOJ) dismissed over a dozen prosecutors involved in high-profile cases against former President Trump, including investigations into his handling of classified documents and efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

"It's not anything to do with violence." – Dr. Abdul El Sayed ([15:36])

This move is portrayed as an effort to "end the weaponization of government," but it raises concerns about the impartiality and independence of the DOJ.

3. Florida's Immigration Legislation Clash ([16:17])

Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis faced pushback from his own party as state lawmakers rejected a special session aimed at addressing immigration policies. Instead, the legislature passed the "Tackling and Reforming Unlawful Migration Policy," also known as the "Trump Act."

"Most of the stuff that's really, really gonna be meaningful was not in the proposal put forward by leaders of the Florida Legislature..." – Florida Lawmaker ([17:13])

This legislation shifts immigration enforcement powers from the governor to the Commissioner of Agriculture, a controversial move likened to "the fox guarding the henhouse."

4. US Air Force Maintains DEI Training Elements ([16:17])

Contrary to President Trump's orders to cut DEI programs, the U.S. Air Force announced that it would continue teaching about the Tuskegee Airmen and World War II Women's Air Force Service Pilots in basic military training. The Air Force clarified that while DEI courses were edited, the historical legacy and valor of these units remain a focal point.

"The revised training... will continue." – US Air Force Representative ([16:17])

5. DeepSeek AI's Market Impact ([19:21])

The rise of DeepSeek, a Chinese AI company, has caused significant ripples in the tech industry. DeepSeek offers functionalities similar to ChatGPT but at a fraction of the cost, leading to substantial market disruptions.

In conversation with Stacey Vanek Smith from Bloomberg:

"They can just have access to really top quality AI for free. And this is completely disrupting the entire market." – Stacey Vanek Smith ([20:46])

This development challenges established AI platforms, threatens hardware suppliers like Nvidia, and alters the economic landscape of AI-driven technologies.

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Conclusion

The episode of What A Day effectively captures the cascading effects of the Trump administration's policies on various sectors, particularly public health. Jane Coaston provides a comprehensive analysis of how abrupt governmental directives have destabilized public health efforts, undermined international collaboration, and created uncertainty within the health workforce. Additionally, the episode touches upon significant developments in military policy, judicial independence, state-level immigration legislation, and technological advancements in AI.

The integration of expert insights from Dr. Abdul El Sayed and Stacey Vanek Smith enriches the discussion, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the complexities and interdependencies within these critical issues.

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. Abdul El Sayed on Public Health Morale:

  "Think the funeral of your favorite great aunt... how are we going to be okay?" ([02:21])

• Dr. Abdul El Sayed on WHO Withdrawal Implications:

  "You can't really control science... It's an effort to do exactly that." ([09:10])

• President Trump on Military Policy:

  "Header lines to ensure that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world, we will get transgender ideology the hell out of our military." ([13:21])

• Florida Lawmaker on Immigration Legislation:

  "Most of the stuff that's really, really gonna be meaningful was not in the proposal put forward by leaders of the Florida Legislature..." ([17:13])

• Stacey Vanek Smith on DeepSeek AI:

  "They can just have access to really top quality AI for free. And this is completely disrupting the entire market." ([20:46])

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a coherent and detailed overview for those unable to listen to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Jane Coastin]

It's Tuesday, January 28th. I'm Jane Coastin, and this is what a day. The show that we'll keep calling the Gulf of Mexico. The Gulf of Mexico. Sorry, Google. This show is staying strong on critical issues like what gulfs are called. On today's Show, Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis doesn't take rejection from his own party very well. And the Tuskegee Airmen and World War II Women's Air Force service pilots will remain in the Air Force's basic military training. But let's start with the Trump administration's war on public health. At the same time as H5N1 bird flu is running rampant on farms and in flocks across the country. Late Sunday, the Trump administration ordered federal health workers to stop working with the World Health Organization, effective immediately. It followed President Trump's executive order last week to pull the US out of the WHO entirely, though many believed it would happen gradually. And that's not all. The Trump administration directed federal health agencies to stop almost all external communications, from updating websites to issuing scientific reports. According to the administration, this is supposed to be a temporary measure ending on February 1st. But the chaos is real, with conferences canceled and studies postponed and research that could save lives left up in the air. Oh, and we're awaiting Robert F. Kennedy Jr. S confirmation hearings for a potential role as secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services later this week. All in all, not great. So for more on Trump's public health orders and how they're resonating among the workforce, I talked to Dr. Abdul El Sayed. He's an epidemiologist and health officer for Wayne County, Michigan. He's also the host of the podcast America Dissected. Abdul, welcome back to what a Day.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Thank you so much for having me. And as is a running gag now on this show, I'm only brought back when, like, really terrible shit is happening in the world. So, like I've said, at some point, I am welcoming the opportunity to talk about my beautiful skincare routine, if you would like that.

[Jane Coastin]

Look, I would love nothing more than to talk about retinols and moisturizer, but we're not here for that, Abdul.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

That's not the world we live in, sadly.

[Jane Coastin]

So what's the mood like within the public health community right now? I'm imagining it's not great.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Think the funeral of your favorite great aunt, the one who knitted you sweaters that you actually liked and made the best food and made you feel comfortable and confident in the world. That one, that's kind of the mood, it's like, how are we going to be okay? But then also we have to be okay. And, you know, I'm getting texts from all corners of the world, folks who are working in the federal bureaucracy, which from them, it's like, what the hell is going on? To folks working in other health departments, to folks out in the research community who are watching as their funding may be slipping away, funding they've worked for for their entire lives. And it's very frustrating. And then the other part of our work is that in some respects, the show must go on. We don't get to put a pause on H5N1, because an individual who has no basis in basic science may be confirmed. HHS SECRETARY so we've got to keep going. And so it's a really difficult moment. But then there's also just a lot of resolve that we're going to try and do all the things that we need to do to keep people safe, because that's the work we signed up for.

[Jane Coastin]

Let's get into talking about H5N1, which is bird flu, which if you haven't been able to get eggs at the grocery store, that's why. And I'm worried about that for a lot of reasons, but the Trump administration ordered federal health officials to stop working with the World Health Organization, effective immediately. With bird flu, what kind of chaos does this create?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Tremendous chaos. So let me just clarify where we are in this situation, because I think for a lot of folks who haven't been watching, what this is is a virus that has been spreading, frankly, around the world now in migratory waterfowl mainly, since the late 1990s. And had you asked folks before COVID what the next pandemic would have been, they would have told you it was going to be H5N1. And what happened in April of 2024 is that we found that it spilled over into cattle and that it's been spilling into MA species for a very long time now. And so what the challenge is is that we're watching this thing spread from animals into humans. Now, the cases that we've seen, for the most part, haven't been too serious. But ask yourself, who are the folks who are most likely to get this virus from livestock? They're workers who work with livestock. So a lot of those folks tend to be undocumented. And one of the things that we've seen from immigration officials is that they're no longer keeping themselves from raiding what they used to call sensitive locations, places like churches or places like clinics and so now if you're somebody who may work at a dairy farm and you've got conjunctivitis and you wonder, I wonder if this is H5N1, the probability that you're gonna go to a clinic and risk potentially being rated is a lot lower. And so we're in the situation now where it feels like the perfect storm.

[Jane Coastin]

To be clear, as of right now, there is no evidence that the disease is spreading between humans, but how worried should we be?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

So the situation right now as we stand is that we're not in a scenario that could potentially end up in a pandemic, but so long as this continues to spread between animals, Right. We are creating the situation wherein a certain virus particle could evolve the ability that makes it able to spread between people. And if that were to happen, that's going to be that break glass situation. So I can't give give you a particular probability that's based in any evidence, but I would tell you that this is the global health situation that folks are most worried about. And if you were going to watch one virus that would potentially go pandemic, it would be this one.

[Jane Coastin]

Which makes the fact that federal health agencies are also still prohibited from making any external communications deemed non emergency seem very bad. What kinds of impediments does that lack of communications create for ongoing research or for telling people what the hell is going on in public health?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Huge impediments. So I'll tell you, when you talk to most people in public health, the equivalent of our weather forecast is this publication called the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. Mmwr. And MMWR has been published on Thursday nights, Friday mornings. That's usually when you see it in your inbox. Every week since 1960 for the first time, those of us in public health basically went without our weather report in a moment when the free exchange of basic scientific information is really important. And so the fact that we're flying blind, and more importantly the fact that folks in the federal health agencies are now under a scenario where they've been warned about what to say. Given that there has been a gag order that's violated all of the past precedent, I worry that we are going to be missing a very, very important picture even if things get worse. Right? Because the impact of this gag order isn't just to shut down flow right now. It's to tell folks that any information moving forward is going to be that which comports to political leadership. And you know, if you remember back to the last pandemic, there was a very, very Clear effort to mix the information to. To make sure that it was manipulated into what was, what put the administration into the best political light. And when you're trying to take on a pandemic, that ain't it.

[Jane Coastin]

What has all of this chaos meant for city and state public health workers like you?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah, we're spending a lot of our time now sitting down with our lawyers to ask, all right, what is it that. That that is at risk? Where is our funding coming from? We don't know what is potentially going to get cut. We don't know what this anti DEI effort will mean for investments in funding for folks in lower income, predominantly black and brown communities like, like the one that I serve. And, and so we're sitting here tracing funds, and so there's just a profound lack of clarity. And the fact that all of this is happening at the same time feels like it's part of the goal here. Finally, I'll tell you, I spent most much of last week thinking about the fact that we had H5N1, the bird flu, in a backyard flock in my county. And so we're thinking about, okay, so how do we interact with the federal government on this? Because usually you would send your collected samples to the cdc, Are they there to receive it? And in the moment when you're not getting clear information back, it just makes any of these responses that much more difficult. And then multiply that by 3,000 local health departments just like mine, and you start to realize how complex and how dangerous this moment is.

[Jane Coastin]

I want to go back to the World Health Organization because, as we mentioned earlier, Trump has moved to pull the US out of the WHO and he wants federal health workers to immediately stop working with the agency. Can you explain why pulling out of the World Health Organization is such a big deal and the potential downsides for the U.S. yeah.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

So the reason that this is so dangerous for us right now and is dangerous for the world, frankly, is because we don't know where the next very serious pathogen is going to emerge. And if we're serious about protecting our own people, we want to be sourcing and driving our best public health minds to those locations to protect folks there so that we protect it from spreading anywhere, including to our own shores. Think Ebola, for example. One of the most important things we did during the Ebola epidemic was send our best public health minds over to West Africa to contain the virus there, to protect people there. Yes. But also to protect it from coming here. And for the most part, it worked. We had a couple of cases among folks here, but we were able to contain it. And so that's the approach that we would want to take. And considering the fact that we account for upwards of one sixth of the WHO's entire budget, the fact that we pulled out doesn't just keep us from being able to protect folks here by protecting folks abroad, it also undercuts the entire World Health Organization's ability to protect everybody globally. But like, there's an underlying thread here to all of this that we really need to call out, which is you can't really control science and so you gotta ask what's so threatening about the free flow of scientific information? It's that it's one of those things that politicians simply can't control. But this is an effort to do exactly that. And usually when you try and manipulate or massage scientific messaging, it usually backfires in your face, which is exactly what we saw during the COVID 19 pandemic. And I worry that we have fundamentally failed to take that lesson and we're putting ourselves in a position where we're all that much less secure for it.

[Jane Coastin]

Abdul, as always, thank you so much for joining me.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I really appreciate you having me. And you know, next time maybe we can talk retinol.

[Jane Coastin]

Perfect. That was my conversation with Dr. Abdul Al Sayed, Health Officer for Wayne County, Michigan and host of the podcast America Dissected. We'll link to his show in our Show Notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. Whataday is brought to you by Magic Spoon. Magic Spoon has turned their super popular high protein cereal into high protein treats that are light, crispy and taste just like those classic crunchy cereal bars. Magic Spoon's treats are so delicious and have already become one of my favorite on the go snacks. Magic Spoon is also launching a brand new high protein granola. True to the Magic Spoon promise, it's packed with protein and crunchy and sweet and perfect for breakfast and snacking. Magic Spoon's high protein treats come in amazing flavors like marshmallow, chocolate, peanut butter and dark chocolate. Look, I am a protein bar aficionado. You name the bar, I've eaten it and a lot of them are bad. But Magic Spoon's bars are genuinely actually delicious. I have one as part of my lunch pretty much every day and Magic Spoons brand new granola packs in 13 grams of protein and zero added sugars they come in amazing flavors like honey, almond and peanut butter, which both go great with Greek yogurt. An easy, quick breakfast for busy mornings. Get $5 off your next order at magicspoon.com day or look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magicspoon.comday for $5 off.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

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[Jane Coastin]

Here's what else we're following today.

[Donald Trump]

Header lines to ensure that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world, we will get transgender ideology the hell out of our military. It's going to be gone.

[Jane Coastin]

Gross President Trump said he would sign another round of executive orders on Monday, taking aim at US Military policy. One bans transgender people from serving in the armed forces. Trump imposed a similar measure during his first presidency that included exceptions for trans people who were already in the military. Former President Biden repealed it in 2021. It's unclear if the new ban will make any exceptions. Monday's order argues that trans people who get gender affirming surgeries are physically and mentally unfit to serve. But you know who Trump says is fit to serve? Anti vaxxers who disobeyed orders. Another order reinstates service members who were discharged for refusing to take the COVID 19 vaccine. The third would eliminate DEI initiatives in the military. Our newly sworn in Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, praised the executive orders on Monday, his first day on the job.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

As the Secretary of Defense. It's an honor to salute smartly, as I did as a junior officer and now as the Secretary of Defense, to ensure these orders are complied with rapidly and quickly.

[Jane Coastin]

On Monday, the Justice Department fired more than a dozen prosecutors who worked on criminal investigations into President Trump. The employees were part of Special Counsel Jack Smith's team and worked on the now dismissed indictments against Trump over his handling of classified documents and his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Ahead of the January 6th attack on the Capitol. A DOJ official told NBC News the acting attorney general does not trust these officials to assist in faithfully implementing the president's agenda. This action is consistent with the mission of ending the weaponization of government. Interesting. And Acting D.C. u.S. Attorney Edward Martin reportedly plans to investigate some of the DOJ lawyers who brought charges against Capitol insurrectionists, which is wild considering Trump already pardoned January 6th defendants. What more do these people want? Oh, wait, so Called Proud Boys chairman and pardon recipient Enrique Tarrio has already told us what I mean by retaliation.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

And I want to be again, unequivocally clear it's not anything to do with violence.

[McDonald's Ad]

I want investigations.

[Jane Coastin]

Martin is investigating the cases in which defendants were charged with obstruction of an official proceeding. Those charges were tossed because of a Supreme Court ruling last year. According to an internal memo sent out Monday, prosecutors were asked to hand over all related documents. Some prosecutors told CNN that the memo raises questions that Trump's DOJ is beginning to, quote, investigate the investigators.

[Florida Lawmaker]

They also bizarrely, strip immigration enforcement power from the governor and give it to the Commissioner of Agriculture. But agriculture has not exactly been known for immigration enforcement, so it's almost like the fox guarding the hen house. It was bizarre.

[Jane Coastin]

What's that? That's the sound of Florida Republican Governor Ron DeSantis whining bizarre. That's because Republican lawmakers in Florida's legislature defied DeSantis on Monday by refusing to hold a special session he called regarding immigration. DeSantis had called the session in preparation for President Trump's executive orders on border policy. House Speaker Daniel Perez said on the chamber floor, I believe special sessions should be used sparingly and should not be stunts used to generate headlines. Instead, the lawmakers called their own special session and overrode one of DeSantis budget vetoes. It was the first time in 15 years the legislature overturned a Florida governor's veto. But don't get too excited. The lawmakers also came up with a separate immigration measure and named it the Tackling and Reforming Unlawful Migration Policy, or Trump act. DeSantis took to Twitter to complain that some of his, quote, very, very strong proposals were sidestepped.

[Florida Lawmaker]

Most of the stuff that's really, really gonna be meaningful was not in the proposal put forward by leaders of the Florida Legislature, the Republican leaders. You have to have a requirement that state and local entities actively cooperate with immigration enforcement federally. Otherwise, none of this stuff is going.

[Jane Coastin]

To amount to much complaining on the Internet about stuff that only you really care about. Ron DeSantis is just like me. Perez and other lawmakers said they didn't support some measures DeSantis called for, including criminal penalties against law enforcement officers who don't help with deportation efforts. The lawmakers are expected to pass and send DeSantis the Trump act today. The U.S. air Force said on Sunday it will continue to teach about its first black pilots and its basic training, despite an executive order regarding diversity, equity and inclusion. The clarification came after President Trump issued an order last week to cut DEI programs across the government. In response, DEI courses for the Air Force's basic military training were removed, including videos of the Tuskegee Airmen and World War II Women's Air Force Service pilots. To refresh your memories, WASPs ferried warplanes for the military, and the Tuskegee Airmen were the first black military pilots. The airmen served in a segregated unit and had one of the lowest bomber loss rates in the war. On Sunday, the Air Force said the DEI courses had been removed for editing. The Air Force said, quote, the revised training, which focuses on the documented historic legacy and decorated valor with which these units and airmen fought for our nation in World War II and beyond, will continue. Remember, sometimes complaining works. And that's the news. One more thing. Deepseek. In just a few days, it has become the subject of endless conversations online. The stock market seems to hate it. App Store users seem to love it. One tech investor Even called DeepSeek AI's Sputnik Momentum, a reference to the Soviet Union launching the first artificial satellite in 1957. It's a big deal.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

It's only been around for a bit, but Deepseek has already vaulted to the top of the App Store on Apple as the most downloaded app.

[Jane Coastin]

And Trump? He thinks Deepseek is good, though it's not quite clear if he knows what Deep seek is.

[Donald Trump]

I view that as a positive, as an asset. So I really think if it's fact and if it's true, and nobody really knows if it is, but I view that as a positive.

[Jane Coastin]

But honestly, neither do I. I'm what some might call an AI skeptic. But it's more that I'm AI confused. I used Claude AI to help figure out how to set up my living room. But I also don't want AI to, you know, empower the worst people alive before killing us all. That is to say, I'm not exactly sure what to think about Deepseek. So I called up Stacey Vanek Smith, senior story editor at Bloomberg and a noted friend of the pod, to answer my very, very basic questions. Stacey, welcome back to what a Day.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thanks, Jane.

[Jane Coastin]

It's good to be here. Stacey, let's just cut to the chase. What the hell is Deep Seek and why is it in the news right now?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Deep Seek is basically a. It's a Chinese company. They produce something that is very close to ChatGPT and in fact that is the problem. That is why they are all over the news, because they have found a way to produce AI, to produce ChatGPT that is a lot cheaper than ChatGPT. In fact, like a fraction, a fraction of the cost.

[Jane Coastin]

So Stacey, why is Deep Seek important to anyone other than stock bros and people who are excited about AI?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So basically, it opens up this whole world. The thing about ChatGPT is it's expensive. If you want the Deep reasoning model of ChatGPT, it's 200 bucks a month and it uses just an enormous amount of energy. It's a ton of power. They've been building and investing in huge server farms to be able to support this AI. And apparently deepseek can do all the same things and operate very, very similarly to ChatGPT using just a fraction of this. And their model's totally free. So the reason this is dragging the market down is because for people like you and me, we can just have access to really top quality AI for free. And this is completely disrupting the entire market. It means Nvidia is not going to be able to sell as many chips. It means that construction companies aren't going to be building as many server farms. It is just huge implications. That's why the market's crashing. But it does open up this whole new world of cheaper AI that all kinds of companies are going to be able to develop.

[Jane Coastin]

Stacey, as always, thank you for being here. I feel more knowledgeable now.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thank you, Jane. It's always so much fun to talk with you.

[Jane Coastin]

That was my conversation with Stacey Vanek Smith, senior story Editor at Bloomberg. Before we go. Hey, friends of the Pod. The fires in Los Angeles have been devastating. And as proud Angelinas ourselves, we want to do everything we can to help those affected and support the organizations rallying around our neighbors in need. We just launched Friend of Los Angeles Merch in the Crooked store. Show off your LA Pride with a new hat or tee to pair with your favorite Dodgers merch or those athleisure pants you wear exclusively to Trader Joe's. 100% of the proceeds go to VoteSave, America's Action wildfire relief fund. Shop now at crooked.com store or donate directly to the [e-mail] so far, the fund has raised over $270,000, fueling nearly 200,000 meals through the LA Regional Food bank and funding $12 million in grants to 83 grassroots organizations via the California Community Foundation. Rebuilding after this devastation will require all hands on deck, so thank you for joining us. Learn more and make a tax deductible [e-mail] Relief. This message has been paid for by VoteSave America. You can learn more at votesaveamerica.com this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, stand with Denmark and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading, I'm not just about how getting into a fight with Denmark over Greenland seems like a great way to distract people from the fact that Trump is trying to screw over rural communities like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coastin and Denmark, you're good with me. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erika Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

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