David Dayen (3:23)

Thanks for having me.

Jane Coaston (3:24)

So, for anyone who isn't familiar, what are the main functions of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau?

David Dayen (3:30)

Sure. So this is an agency that was started in 2010. Prior to that, consumer protection regulations, whether it's about mortgages or student loans or auto loans or anything that is a major financial transaction in the economy, those regulations were spread out above across a number of different agencies. And the goal of the CFPB was to put them all in one agency with the sole mission of protecting consumers. No other sort of countervailing ideas that were involved. And it's been quite successful until about February of this year.

Jane Coaston (4:11)

Yeah, you wrote about this, that a legal filing this week revealed that the Trump administration has decided that the CFPB's funding mechanism is illegal because it wants to block the CFPB from receiving funding from the Federal Reserve. Can you explain the legal argument that the White House is attempting here?

David Dayen (4:29)

Yeah, this is a hack argument that has been put together for years now. Most courts have just sort of dismissed it, but it's coming up again, and here's the concept. So the way that the CFPB is funded is, and this is in the statute, it says it comes from the earnings of the Federal Reserve Board. So at the time that CFPB was established, the Fed was making tons of money, basically for a lot of different reasons. But it had a very large balance sheet with a lot of interest bearing securities on its books. That has changed. And since 2022, the Fed has actually lost money. And so what the government is saying is that, well, the Fed is losing money and therefore it doesn't have any earnings. And therefore the CFPB can't take money out of the Fed because there are no earnings it can take it from. It's very, very specific kind of textual reading. And to believe this argument, you have to believe that when Congress established the cfpb, it was Thinking that we would only regulate consumer protection in years that the Federal Reserve turns a profit, that somehow those things would be tied together. And in years where the Federal Reserve didn't turn a profit, oh, well, you're gonna get scammed on your mortgage. This is a ridiculous argument. And I just can't see a judge saying, you know what, you're right. Legally speaking, there's no way for consumer protection to go on unless the Federal Reserve is a money making operation. And so we're just gonna let you go with that. My suspicion is that they will say no. You actually have to ask the Federal Reserve for the money.

Jane Coaston (6:17)

I mean, this filing is new to you and I, but the effort by the Trump administration to dismantle the CFPB is not new. This has been going on basically since Trump took office in January. And I know this seems like kind of an obvious point, but why do they want to dismantle the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau?

David Dayen (6:36)

I mean, I think there are a lot of reasons. Republicans have been against this agency from the very beginning. They don't want a consumer protection agency that has such a fundamental sole mission. They are, you know, some of their supporters are in the banking industry, and the banking industry doesn't like the cfpb. But you know, to take that one step further, one of the things that the sort of new right tech industry is interested in is using their platforms as payment mechanisms. So Elon Musk wants to turn X into the everything Apple. And one of the things he wants to do is have it be sort of a financial app that you can make payments and move things from one place to the other. What they really don't want is the CFPB to regulate them for that. And so right before the election and shortly thereafter, you saw all these people like Marc Andreessen and Elon Musk go after CFPB specifically because under Rohit Chopra was the previous director in the Biden administration, they were looking at these non bank participants like Facebook, like Google, like potentially Twitter slash X to see if they needed enhanced regulation if they were going to be getting into the financial system. So I think that it's the combination of generally Republicans side with the big banks over consumers and this, this new wrinkle of, you know, Silicon Valley wanting to become banks.

Jane Coaston (8:16)

Now, I don't know if you've gotten a lot more phishing texts from alleging that you have a toll due in a state you've never lived in. And it comes from like a plus 44 area code, you know, like an American place. You know, would. But online financial scams have seemingly become even more endemic than they were before. Would a functional CFPB be able to protect consumers who lose money in these types of scams? Because it's all kinds of scams. It sees toll scams, it's fake jobs, like, where you get those texts being like, hey, we're going to pay you $8,000 a month to do two hours of work. And it's like, not a real thing. Would the CFPB in a better time be able to protect consumers against that?

David Dayen (8:58)

Yeah. Jane, you say you're not driving much in Sao Tome and Principe or places like that.

Jane Coaston (9:04)

I don't. It's weird how I am not a big Filipino highway driver.

David Dayen (9:09)

Right? It is weird. Yeah. So I would say, first of all, the CFPB is sort of an agency in name only right now, even though Rusvot has been unsuccessful in firing most of the workers, he has basically told them not to do any work. And so it's this agency where people just, they don't even come into the. The office and they just sort of sit around at home all day, and then not a lot goes on. And so scams are proliferating throughout the economy. Now, some of this is because of the Trump administration's general attitude towards consumer protection. Some of these things that you talked about have to do with the Federal Trade Commission, for example. But certainly financial scams are moving on up the ladder. And we're in a situation right now where the debt levels and delinquency levels in particular in things like mortgages, student loans, auto loans, are at levels that they were at just around the financial crisis of 2008. And to not have an agency, to not have a cop on the beat while this massive amount of debt, this debt bomb, is growing and growing and growing, is really, really dangerous for people.

Jane Coaston (10:29)

Yeah, you said 2008, and I said, no, no, thank you, let's not do that again. But it's interesting because this week Google filed a lawsuit targeting a network in China called Lighthouse, which Google alleges is providing digital support to a vast network of scammers. But we also saw some reporting from Reuters talking about how Meta was well aware that roughly 10% of its revenue was coming from scams. So with the hollowing out of the cfpb, how much could consumers rely on tech companies like Google to police itself and protect against scams?

David Dayen (11:02)

I mean, this is one of the big problems, right? I mean, self regulation really doesn't work at all, and certainly not in platforms that are trying to make as much money as they can because they need to build out the AI revolution or whatever. So, yeah, I think it's a time when people have to be really on guard with the knowledge that there's not really anybody, at least at the federal level, who's really protecting them. Now some states have stepped up, California and New York and some others. But by and large, there is a big hole, big smoking hole in our consumer financial regulatory structure right now. And clearly by their actions, Russ Vogt and the Trump administration want that to be sort of a permanent condition.

Jane Coaston (11:53)

How could the recent deal to end the shutdown complicate the Trump administration's ongoing efforts to end the CFPB and fire everyone who works there?

David Dayen (12:01)

Yeah, that's really interesting. So one of the few bright spots in the legislation in terms of a concession that the Trump administration made is this part of the shutdown resolution that says that no individual federal employees, or at least in a, in a mass sense and a reduction in force sense, can be fired. And so now we're in a situation where let's say, you know, CFPB has said they have enough money till the end of the year, but in early 2026 they would run out of money if they are correct that they're not allowed to get any more money from the Fed. So let's say it's January 2026 and CFPB runs out of money, but they're not allowed to fire anybody because of this provision in the shutdown resolution. So what do they do? They have to fund these people, they have to keep these people employed, they have to pay these people, but they say they can't get any money. So it's this huge dilemma that is going to come to a head probably in the courts.

Jane Coaston (13:11)

David, thank you so much for joining me.

David Dayen (13:14)

Great. Thank you very much.

Jane Coaston (13:16)

That was my conversation with David Dayan, executive editor of the American Prospect. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, Deleteme does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. DeleteMe knows your privacy is worth protecting. Sign up and provide Deleteme with exactly what information you want deleted. Delete and their experts take it from there. And Deleteme isn't just a one time service. DeleteMe is always working for you, constantly monitoring and removing the personal information you don't want on the Internet. The New York Times Wirecutter has named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. As someone with a very active online presence, privacy is really important to me. And even if you've never been a victim of identity theft or doxxing, you probably know someone who has. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com wad and use promo code WAD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com WAD and enter code WAD at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com WAD code WAD Ah, the.

Laci Mosley (14:50)

Sounds of an Etsy holiday.

David Dayen (14:54)

Woo hoo.

Laci Mosley (14:56)

Now that's special. Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy.

David Dayen (15:02)

For gifts that say I get you shop Etsy.

Laci Mosley (15:05)

What's poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too, guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know, represented. Because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o' Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess. Wherever you get your podcasts.

Jane Coaston (15:44)

Here's what else we're following today.

Laci Mosley (15:46)

Head of Lines.

Kevin Hassett (15:50)

And the household survey wasn't conducted in October, so we're going to get half the employment report. We'll get the jobs part, but we won't get the unemployment rate. And that'll just be for one month.

Jane Coaston (16:00)

White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett said Thursday that the government will still release October's jobs report, but without an unemployment rate thanks to the weeks long shutdown. The record 43 day shutdown halted data collection, processing and publication across key federal agencies, including the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Commerce Department's Census Bureau and Bureau of Economic Analysis. But HACCP doesn't just quit when the going gets tough.

Kevin Hassett (16:25)

But yeah, it is true that we probably will never will maybe be able to concoct something that we'll never actually know for sure what the unemployment rate was in October.

Jane Coaston (16:34)

Concoct something that's not how numbers work. The October jobs report is not a witch's brew. Hassett told reporters that the shutdown cost roughly $15 billion a week and shaved 1% to 1.5% off economic growth, eliminating an estimated 60,000 private sector jobs. The data gap comes as the BLS still has no Senate confirmed director. After Trump fired Erica McInterfer earlier this year over disappointing July jobs numbers, his chosen replacement, E.J. antony, was nominated and then quickly withdrawn. At this point, maybe Trump and Hassett should skip concocting the unemployment rate and start concocting a BLS director. The Justice Department has sued to block new congressional district boundaries approved by California voters. It joins a court battle that could play a huge role in which party wins control of the U.S. house in 2026. The complaint filed Thursday targets the congressional map pushed by Democratic governor Gavin Newsom and approved by California voters last week. Proposition 50 is a constitutional amendment temporarily changing the congressional boundaries. The aim is to give California Democrats a chance in next year's midterms to win five seats that are currently held by Republicans. And to be clear, it's literally just a response to a similar Republican led effort in Texas backed by none other than Trump himself. Republicans there have rejiggered districts in hopes of picking up five seats of their own ahead of the midterms. If Texas can do it, why can't California? The Trump administration, now clearly feeling threatened, joined the California Republican Party in challenging the state's new map. The DOJ is accusing California of racial gerrymandering and is asking a judge to prohibit the state from using the map in any future elections, governor Newsom's press office said in a tweet. Quote, these losers lost at the ballot box and soon they will also lose in court.

Kristi Noem (18:28)

So today we are announcing that we are going to be handing out bonus checks of $10,000 to TSOs, to agents who work for TSA who served with exemplary service.

Jane Coaston (18:40)

On Thursday, Secretary of Homeland Security and omnipresent airport specter Kristi Noemi handed out $10,000 bonus checks to select Transportation Security Administration agents who work through the record long government shutdown. Standing in front of a dozen TSA agents at Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport, Noem said the payments were meant to help workers, quote, get back on their feet after more than six weeks without pay. Noem praised TSA agents who, quote, showed up each and every day. Noem then went on to hand out physical checks to TSA agents.

Kristi Noem (19:12)

So with that, Rico, I want to present to you a check and say thank you from the American people. Appreciate it.

Jane Coaston (19:19)

Bearing in mind that's the first time Noem has said thank you and RICO in the same sentence, no one knows how many workers will actually get checks or the full criteria DHS used to pick them, other than them being within arm's reach when Noem spotted a camera. New guidance from the Trump administration instructs visa officers to, quote, consider an applicant's health, like whether or not they are obese when deciding whether to issue US Visas to foreigners. That's according to a State Department message sent out last week and seen by multiple outlets. The directive reinterprets public charge, which determines if foreigners can be denied visas if they're likely to rely on US Government assistance. While federal law already required those seeking permanent residency or legal status to prove they wouldn't be a public charge, the new guidelines appear to go even further. According to KFF Health News, the cable mentions medical conditions including cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, cancers and diabetes, and notes that they can, quote, require hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of care. The guidelines also encourage visa officers to consider whether an applicant is obese, noting that obesity can cause asthma, sleep apnea and high blood pressure. But I guess we shouldn't be surprised by the new rules, a State Department spokesperson told Axios. Quote, it's no secret the Trump administration is putting the interests of the American people first, adding, quote, this includes enforcing policies that ensure our immigration system is not a burden on the American taxpayer. Taxpayer who is, let's be real here, more likely than not to be obese. And that's the news. Before we go, the Runaway country team got an exclusive interview with Hasan Piker about the rights embrace of Nick Fuentes and what it says about how Democrats and Republicans are both losing their footing. You can listen to that episode and more by subscribing to Runaway country with Alex Wagner, wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, enjoy a Russian AI robot falling down during its big debut, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading, I'm not just about AI Doll, Russia's first humanoid robot keeling over this week in a manner familiar to anyone who has ever fallen up the stairs like me. Water Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@cricut.com subscribe I'm Jane Coasten and yes, AI robots might kill us all, but first they need to hash out Walking what a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Kaitlyn Plummer, Tyler Hill, and Ethan Overman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our Senior Vice President of News and Politics is Adrienne Hill. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east.

Laci Mosley (23:07)

What'S poppin listeners? I'm Lacy Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess. The show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scam scammiest scammers of all time. Want to know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison iii, Conan o', Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess. Wherever you get your podcasts save over.

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