
Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lee Zeldin has been busy since assuming office earlier this year. Zeldin's been pushing President Donald Trump's climate agenda by rolling back Biden-era climate protections, deregulating businesses, and cutting staff at the agency. Former EPA Administrator and White House National Climate Advisor Gina McCarthy joins us to discuss how states and cities are stepping up to protect their communities and the planet. And in headlines: A reporter claimed that Trump administration officials disclosed war plans in a group chat on the messaging app Signal, the Supreme Court rejects challenge to a landmark freedom of the press case, and President Trump announced Susan Monarez as his nominee to lead the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
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Jane Coston
It's Tuesday, March 25th. I'm Jane Coston, and this is Whataday, the show with absolutely spectacular operational security. We have never added the editor in chief of a prominent magazine to our group chat, and we never will. That's the what a day promise. On today's show, lawyers for the White House are in court again to defend deportation flights to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act. And President Donald Trump is asking the Supreme Court to overrule a lower court decision to rehire thousands of federal workers. But let's start with the Environmental Protection Agency, a federal department created by Republican Richard Nixon. Yes, Richard Nixon focused, as you might expect, on protecting the environment, or at least it was. Now the epa, under Administrator Lee Zeldin seems less focused on cleaning up our air and waterways or, heaven forbid, doing something about climate change and more focused on helping America achieve AI dominance. Here's Zeldin on FOX News last week.
Lee Zeldin
At the end of the day, we are about powering the great American comeback, making sure that cleaner, safer, healthier land, air, water for all Americans are achieved. But we also do it unleashing energy dominance, making America the capital, the world, bringing back American auto jobs, pursuing permitting reform, and much more.
Jane Coston
Here's the thing. AI consumes a ton of energy. In 2024, Google reported that its greenhouse gas emissions increased nearly 50% since 2019 because of its push to focus on AI. And greenhouse gas emissions contribute to climate change, which seems like something the Environmental Protection Agency should be concerned about. It certainly used to be. But now the EPA wants to deregulate businesses, cut back or eliminate EPA offices focused on making sure underrepresented communities aren't exposed to environmental toxins. And poll and do everything possible to make sure companies can pollute as much as their little corporate hearts desire, which seems to me bad. So to talk about what the EPA is and isn't doing and what states and cities are doing to step up, I spoke with Gina McCarthy. She served as the administrator of the EPA under President Obama and was the first White House national climate advisor under President Biden. Gina, thank you so much for joining me.
Gina McCarthy
Hey, it's great to be here with you. Thanks for having me.
Jane Coston
So a group of former EPA administrators wrote an op ed for the New York Times about the behind the scenes work the agency does and how critical it is to our everyday lives. What are some of the things that the EPA does that people might not be aware of?
Gina McCarthy
EPA does everything from, you know, regulating industries to making sure landfills don't drop all their pollution into Rivers and streams. We work with local communities. 40% of EPA's money actually goes to states so that they can be supported in efforts to collaborate and make sure that we're taking care of people's health and reducing pollution. Our scientists and our policy people go out and do work on hydrofluorocarbons, which are highly polluting in our atmosphere. So there's lots of things that EPA does that people, I think probably just take for granted, frankly. They don't understand how difficult and complicated it is to actually keep people safe. And the expertise and the policy and the science and the rulemakings behind that have really saved millions and millions of lives.
Jane Coston
Lee Zeldin, the new head of the epa, has been very busy since assuming office. He says he's rolling back dozens of environmental regulations, he's terminating grants, et cetera, et cetera. He claims that he hasn't read Project 2025, the giant right wing plan for this administration. But everything he's doing seems to mirror what's outlined in that policy blueprint. What does Project 2025 say about the environment and climate change?
Gina McCarthy
Well, it doesn't pay a whole lot of compliments to EPA, that's for sure. You know, Project 2025 was all about really minimizing the ability of the federal government to do its job in every way, shape and form. So I think the announcement by Lee Zeldin was probably expected to happen as a result of demands being made on him. EPA's mission, that's been the case through many Republican and Democratic administrations. Its mission is to protect health and the environment. He changed that. He said abundant energy dominance, which is code word for we need to just advance fossil fuels. So those 31 rules that he's now reconsidering are rules that are fundamental protections. I will guarantee you that that's code word for saying I'm shifting those under the rug and we're not going to implement them anymore. And they're rules like the Endangerment Finding, which if that leaves, then climate change and greenhouse gases can no longer be part of the considerations that we should be taking. I mean, we know the impacts that climate change is having on us and our health and our natural resources. They want to take 65% of the staff and throw them out the door. They want to get rid of our scientists. They're already talking about eliminating our Office of Research and Development. They're doing everything they can to make it really impossible to continue to move forward at EPA in the way that I think every one of us wants which is to protect ourselves and our families and our future.
Jane Coston
So speaking of the harm, Zeldin isn't just targeting Biden era climate policies. He's going back even further, saying he will reconsider the EPA's declaration in 2009 that greenhouse gases are harmful to the environment and human health, which everybody knows it seems crazy. What would the consequences be of throwing that out?
Gina McCarthy
Well, that would mean that we have to deny that climate change actually exists. And then we'd have to look at how we make sure that we don't help communities stay safe, because that wouldn't be our job anymore. And that's everything from severe rainstorms that are creating floods to the fires, the wildfires that we're seeing, windstorms and hurricanes and tornadoes that we're seeing, which are all a result of our changing climate. It's pretty much a total effort to deny not just science and not just EPA's mission, but to deny that there are so many people in this country that are impacted by severe pollution, that are facing challenges with water quality or quantity.
Jane Coston
It's fascinating how the environment has become this weird culture war cudgel. And so on the one hand you hear from Trump and from RFK Jr talking about, oh, we want clean water and clean air, but then they also will give Lee Zeldin carte blanche to make greenhouse gases great again. And also that anyone who acknowledges that climate change is real and that there's something we need to be doing about it is a radical left lunatic. How do you think about that?
Gina McCarthy
I think it just sort of like my mind goes boom, you know, how is this at all consistent? They don't care about these things. They wouldn't have taken these jobs and taken the kind of steps they have to dismantle our federal government. My only sort of thing that I'm clinging to is that I'm doing work now with America is All in, which is basically recognizing that if the federal government is going to keep behaving like this, then states and governors and cities and towns leaders at the sub national level are going to have to step up. And the, the good news is they actually are. You know, we are seeing mayors step up, we're seeing businesses and communities step up. They know what's at stake. If we continue to move forward at the local level, at least we can keep moving our country forward. What we're talking about is now building a constituency base that recognizes that if the federal government is out to lunch, we're going to eat their lunch. That's how it has to be.
Jane Coston
You've talked about the importance to step up on the local level and the state level, and that that's already happening. But we've talked on the show before about how the Trump administration's efforts to roll back climate protections will take a long time to kick in because of all the legal avenues the administration has to go through. And you've mentioned how, you know, we do have some reasons for hope. But what impact are Zeldin and Trump's actions already having? And what impact do you think that they're going to have by the end of Trump's term? What are you worried about over these next couple of years?
Gina McCarthy
If Zeldin is intent on not implementing regulations, I think we're going to have big trouble because they're already dismantling the enforcement staff at EPA. They're already talking about maybe we shouldn't need 10 regions at EPA who are filled with professionals who actually know the areas that they're servicing. If they get rid of both those things, then we have no ability to make a judgment about what we're being exposed to and how we can protect ourselves. And it's just shockingly difficult to try to figure out how any human being could actually be that callous and that indifferent to our lives and our livelihood and the very people that elected them, because they're the ones, first and foremost, that are going to be impacted because they have never been invested in at the level they need to. And you're going to see everything from agriculture on down who's actually soon going to be in an uproar because they don't have the support they need to succeed in feeding us and putting money in their pockets, which is what they've been able to do through every difficult administration. But this administration is difficult, it's indifferent, which is very difficult for all of us.
Jane Coston
The US has been a world leader in climate policies. Trump pulled us out of the Paris climate Agreement for the second time in January when he came into office. How does that impact global climate change mitigation?
Gina McCarthy
Well, it's been very difficult. And one thing that Mike Bloomberg has done is both in 2017 when the Trump administration pulled out and this year when he did. It's been Mike Bloomberg who basically gave all of the money that the US Needed to have to actually put on the table for the unfccc, which is the organization that is in charge of these climate efforts and the climate conferences of the parties. I was at the UN Just two weeks ago. I'm going to be going to Copenhagen and little old me and others are going to be representing the United States of America because we don't have anyone in Washington that wants that job to work with other countries, not just to protect the interests of those countries or America, but to protect our ability to give our kids a future.
Jane Coston
Gina, thank you so much for joining me.
Gina McCarthy
Thank you. It was great to be here.
Jane Coston
That was my conversation with Gina McCarthy, former EPA administrator and White House National Climate Advisor. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads Water Day is brought to you by Zebiotics Free Alcohol. Let's face it, I'm in my late 30s, so after a night with drinks, I do not bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a super fun night or a great next day. That is until I found Pre Alcohol Zebiotics. Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on working out without worry this college basketball season. Don't let anything sideline your celebrations. Grab pre alcohol before you go out and be ready to cheer on your team all day and night long. Go to zbiotics.com wad to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use WAD at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com wad and use the code WAD at checkout for 15% off.
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Lee Zeldin
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Jane Coston
Here'S what else we're following today Header lines why were those details shared on Signal? And how did you learn that a journalist was privy to the targets, the types of weapons used?
Gina McCarthy
I've heard I was characterized, nobody was texting war plans.
Lee Zeldin
And that's all I have to say about that.
Jane Coston
Thank you. Secretary of Defense Pete Higseth is in hot water after a reporter on Monday claimed Trump administration officials disclosed war plans in a group chat on the messaging app Signal. Journalist and editor in chief of the Atlantic Jeffrey Goldberg said those private discussions accidentally included him in an article Monday titled the Trump Administration Accidentally Texted Me its War Plans. Goldberg wrote that he received a connection request on the app earlier this month from a user who appeared to be National Security Advisor Michael Waltz. He said he was then added to a chat group called the Quote Houthi PC Small Group. Others in the group appeared to include Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Goldberg wrote he had strong doubts the text group was real because he, quote, could not believe that the national security leadership of the United States would communicate on Signal about imminent war plans. Also, hello. Why was he in the chat? Goldberg said just days later he found out the US Was going to bomb Houthi targets across Yemen hours before it happened. Why? Because the account labeled Pete Hegseth texted him the war plan at 11:44am While Goldberg chose not to directly quote the messages sent by Hegseth, he did write that the information could have conceivably been used by a US Adversary to harm American military personnel, goldberg wrote. What I will say in order to illustrate the shocking recklessness of this signal conversation is that the Hegseth post contained operational details of forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about targets, weapons the US Would be deploying, and attack sequencing. When asked by reporters about the text Monday, Hegseth referred to Goldberg as a, quote, deceitful and highly discredited so called journalist. Which doesn't really answer the question, does it? In a statement Monday, White House National Security Council spokesman Brian Hughes said the group chat appears to be authentic. But, he added, the thread is a, quote, demonstration of the deep and thoughtful policy coordination between senior officials. Maybe the White House and Pete Higseth should chat on Signal and in horrifying and yet somehow completely unsurprising fashion, reporters seem to break the story to our commander in chief himself. You reacted to the story the Atlantic, that said that some of your top.
Lee Zeldin
Academy officials and aides have been discussing very sensitive material through Signal and included.
Jane Coston
An Atlantic reporter for that. What is your response to that? I don't know anything about it. I'm not a big fan of the Atlantic. It's to me, it's a magazine that's going out of business. I think it's not much of a magazine, but I know nothing about it. You're saying that they had what? Someone clearly wasn't in the group chat. Some Democrats are calling for an investigation the Trump administration once again wants the Supreme Court to do it a solid and block a lower court judge's ruling it doesn't like. The administration Monday asked the justices to block an order to rehire thousands of probationary status federal workers. These are people who were either recently hired by the government or had moved into a different job and had not yet earned full civil service protections. The White House targeted them for mass firing in February as part of a push to shrink the size of the government. But earlier this month, a federal judge in San Francisco slammed the administration's sham process for axing all Those people, around 16,000 in total, and ordered some agencies to offer them their jobs back. Naturally, the Trump administration isn't happy about that and wants the nation's highest court to step in. In a court filing, it argues the judge overreached with his ruling and that it violates the federal separation of powers. In other Supreme Court news Monday, the justices also declined to hear a challenge to a landmark freedom of the press case. Casino mogul and Trump donor Steve Wynn wanted the justices to revisit New York Times v. Sullivan, a 1960s case that protects journalists from libel suits when they write damaging stories about public figures. Wynn had sued the Associated Press in 2018 for publishing sexual misconduct allegations against him that dated back decades. Wynn denies the claims and is apparently very upset that the AP decided to write about them. Life is very hard sometimes. Lawyers for the White House were in court again Monday, arguing over President Trump's use of wartime powers to deport alleged members of a Venezuelan gang. This time it was in front of the D.C. circuit Court of Appeals. The administration asked the court to lift a hold on its use of the Alien Enemies act to remove people it says belong to the gang Atran de Aragua. It's not clear when the three judge panel will issue a decision. As of our recording late Monday, that hasn't happened yet. But during the hearing, Circuit Judge Patricia Millett, an Obama appointee, ripped into the administration for not giving people the opportunity to challenge their removals.
Gina McCarthy
There were plane loads of people. There were no procedures in place to notify people. Nazis got better treatment under the Alien Enemy act than has happened here.
Jane Coston
Nazis got better treatment. Hmm. Also on Monday, the lower court judge at the center of the case, District Judge James Boasberg, again ruled against the White House. He refused to lift his bloc on using the wartime law for deportations. He said people should get the chance to challenge allegations they belonged to Trend or Aragua before they're removed. You know, due process. Lawyers will be back in Boasburg's court today for another scheduled hearing. DOJ lawyers are supposed to say whether they plan to invoke state secrets privileges to shield details about earlier deportations under the Alien Enemies act from the court. President Trump announced Susan Menarez is his nominee to lead the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Menarez has been serving as the acting director since January. Trump posted on Truth Social Monday that Maneras will, quote, work closely with our great Secretary of Health and Human services, Robert Kennedy Jr. Together, they will prioritize accountability, high standards and disease prevention to finally address the chronic disease epidemic and make America healthy again. Maneris was previously the deputy director of a research funding agency that supports transformative biomedical and health breakthroughs. Trump's announcement comes after the White House pulled the nomination of Dave Weldon earlier this month. The position requires Senate approval starting this year. While Moneros does have a PhD, if confirmed, she would be the first non physician to lead the agency in more than 50 years. And that's the news. Before we go, a new episode of Polar Coaster just dropped. In it, Dan Pfeiffer and Jon Favreau dive into the new 2024 election data and the findings that came from it. To access this exclusive subscriber series and more. Subscribe now@qriket.com friends that's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review. Contemplate the fact that Elon Musk is sending $100 to anyone who signs a petition yelling about judges in Wisconsin in an effort to influence the state's Supreme Court election. And tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how this isn't the first time he's done this and probably won't be the last, and the best way to fight back is for Wisconsinites to vote for the person who's not being supported by noted weirdo Elon Musk. Like me. What a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and Wisconsin voters do your thing. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
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Podcast Summary: "What A Day" – Episode: "Sec. Pete Hegseth Is In My DMs"
Host: Jane Coston
Release Date: March 25, 2025
Podcast: What A Day by Crooked Media
In this episode of What A Day, host Jane Coston delves into pressing national issues, primarily focusing on the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under its new administrator, Lee Zeldin. The episode also covers a controversial incident involving Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and interactions with a journalist on the messaging app Signal, alongside updates on the Trump administration's legal maneuvers and appointments.
Overview:
The EPA, established by Republican President Richard Nixon with a mission to protect the environment, is undergoing significant changes under the leadership of Lee Zeldin. Contrary to its traditional focus on environmental protection, Zeldin appears to be steering the agency towards promoting American AI dominance and energy sector reforms.
Notable Quote:
Lee Zeldin on Fox News:
“At the end of the day, we are about powering the great American comeback, making sure that cleaner, safer, healthier land, air, water for all Americans are achieved. But we also do it unleashing energy dominance, making America the capital, the world, bringing back American auto jobs, pursuing permitting reform, and much more.”
Timestamp: [01:11]
Key Points Discussed:
Energy vs. Environment:
Jane Coston highlights the irony in the EPA's current trajectory, emphasizing that artificial intelligence (AI) endeavors are energy-intensive. She cites Google's 2024 report indicating a nearly 50% increase in greenhouse gas emissions since 2019 due to its AI focus, underscoring the environmental implications of such technological advancements.
Deregulation Efforts:
Under Zeldin, the EPA is purportedly rolling back numerous environmental regulations, terminating grants, and reducing oversight to favor corporate interests. Coston criticizes this shift, suggesting it undermines the agency's foundational goals of pollution control and environmental safeguarding.
Guest: Gina McCarthy
Background: Former EPA Administrator under President Obama and first White House National Climate Advisor under President Biden.
Discussion Highlights:
EPA’s Crucial Roles:
McCarthy elucidates the EPA's comprehensive responsibilities, from regulating industries and managing pollution in landfills to collaborating with local communities and allocating 40% of its funding to state-level environmental initiatives.
Quote:
“EPA does everything from, you know, regulating industries to making sure landfills don't drop all their pollution into Rivers and streams... They don't understand how difficult and complicated it is to actually keep people safe.”
Timestamp: [02:45]
Impact of Project 2025:
McCarthy explains that Project 2025 aims to significantly reduce the federal government's capacity to operate effectively, with a clear intention to dismantle foundational EPA protections.
Quote:
“That's code word for saying I'm shifting those under the rug and we're not going to implement them anymore... They're doing everything they can to make it really impossible to continue to move forward at EPA.”
Timestamp: [04:08]
Consequences of Deregulation:
Removing critical regulations like the Endangerment Finding, which acknowledges the harmful effects of greenhouse gases, would effectively negate climate change considerations in policy-making.
Quote:
“It would mean that we have to deny that climate change actually exists... It's pretty much a total effort to deny not just science and not just EPA's mission.”
Timestamp: [06:13]
Local vs. Federal Action:
In response to federal rollbacks, McCarthy expresses hope in state and local governments stepping up to continue environmental protection efforts.
Quote:
“If the federal government is out to lunch, we're going to eat their lunch... If we continue to move forward at the local level, at least we can keep moving our country forward.”
Timestamp: [07:32]
Incident Overview:
Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is embroiled in controversy after journalist Jeffrey Goldberg, Editor-in-Chief of The Atlantic, alleged that Hegseth inadvertently shared sensitive war plans in a private Signal group chat. The chat purportedly included high-ranking officials like Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
Key Details:
Goldberg’s Account:
Goldberg received a connection request from a user resembling National Security Advisor Michael Waltz and was later added to a group named "Houthi PC Small Group." He claims that Hegseth sent him operational details regarding impending strikes on Yemen at 11:44 AM, potentially exposing US military strategies to adversaries.
Responses:
Lee Zeldin’s Reaction:
Initially dismissive, Zeldin described Goldberg as a “deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist” without addressing the core issue.
Quote:
“I don't know anything about it. I'm not a big fan of the Atlantic... I think it's not much of a magazine, but I know nothing about it.”
Timestamp: [17:13]
White House's Stance:
National Security Council spokesperson Brian Hughes affirmed the authenticity of the group chat but framed it as evidence of “deep and thoughtful policy coordination” among senior officials.
Quote:
“The group chat appears to be authentic... a demonstration of the deep and thoughtful policy coordination between senior officials.”
Timestamp: [14:54]
Judicial Repercussions:
The incident has sparked calls for an investigation, though the Trump administration is countering by seeking Supreme Court intervention to block lower court decisions unfavorable to them.
A. Rehiring of Federal Workers:
Background:
The Trump administration had targeted around 16,000 federal workers for termination to reduce government size. A federal judge in San Francisco deemed the process flawed and mandated that some agencies reinstate these workers.
Supreme Court Involvement:
The administration has appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing that the lower court judge overstepped by infringing on the separation of powers.
B. Supreme Court Decisions:
Freedom of the Press Case:
The Court declined to hear Steve Wynn's challenge to New York Times v. Sullivan, maintaining strong protections for journalists against libel suits related to reporting on public figures.
Context:
Wynn had sued the Associated Press over past sexual misconduct allegations, which he denies.
C. Nomination of Susan Menarez to CDC:
Announcement:
President Trump nominated Susan Menarez, the acting director since January, to permanently lead the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
Background:
Menarez, with a PhD, would be the first non-physician to head the CDC in over five decades, succeeding the previously nominated Dave Weldon whose nomination was withdrawn.
Quote from Trump on Truth Social:
“Menarez will work closely with our great Secretary of Health and Human services, Robert Kennedy Jr. Together, they will prioritize accountability, high standards and disease prevention to finally address the chronic disease epidemic and make America healthy again.”
Timestamp: [17:08]
Alien Enemies Act Deportations:
The White House is defending deportation flights to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act. Circuit Judge Patricia Millett criticized the administration for inadequate notification and due process, comparing the treatment to that of Nazis under the same act.
Quote from McCarthy:
“Nazis got better treatment under the Alien Enemy act than has happened here.”
Timestamp: [19:36]
Trump's Relations with Media:
Coston touches upon the strained relationship between Trump administration officials and journalists, exemplified by the Pete Hegseth Signal chat incident and the administration's dismissive stance towards The Atlantic.
In this episode, Jane Coston provides a critical examination of the Trump administration's environmental policies, legal challenges, and controversial interactions with the media. Through her interview with Gina McCarthy, listeners gain insight into the potential ramifications of the EPA's deregulation and the broader implications for climate change and public health. The controversy involving Pete Hegseth underscores ongoing tensions between the administration and journalistic integrity. Finally, updates on legal battles and key nominations reflect the administration's continued efforts to shape governmental operations and public policy amidst significant opposition.
Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions presented in the episode.