Jane Kostin (2:45)

Okay, that's the coolest name anything has ever had for anything thing. I must know more.

Shelby Holliday (2:50)

It does sound cool. And it was approaching Venezuela. It actually did not have oil in it. It was approaching Venezuela to pick up oil and the US tried to seize it. The Coast Guard asked to board it. The Coast Guard has a right to visit rule where they can board a vessel, ask what the ownership is, verify that the ship is who they say they are. And typically ships allow that to happen. This crew said no. So the Coast Guard trailed it across the Atlantic as it was trying to flee the US quarantine, or blockade, as some people call it. And on its way across the Atlantic, it registered on the Russian ship register, which was very unusual because typically when you register a ship, you have to appear for an inspection and pay fees and sign paperwork. And all of the sudden Russia claimed this ship as one of its own. So that set off a lot of alarm bells too. People started wondering, what's on this ship? Why is Russia protecting it? Is it just because Russia sends oil on these Dark Fleet vessels and so they care about protecting the Dark fleet? Anyway, the ship gets all the way up to Iceland. The US has resources in place to board it. And a Russian submarine is found to be escorting the ship, again raising the stakes for the US forces who are trying to board it. So the US sent a tremendous amount of firepower. First of all, the US wanted to send a message that these kind of tankers won't be allowed in the Western hemisphere. But secondly, there were concerns that, that this ship had some unusual tie with Russia. There were a lot of theories about what could be on the ship. It turns out so far we know there was nothing on the ship. But the US cared enough about it to board it, seize it, and say, we will not tolerate this behavior.

Jane Kostin (4:26)

We've heard for days now that the US military's actions in Venezuela are mostly focused on oil. But clearly there's more going on here. So I want to back up for a second. What is Venezuela's role in the global oil market and this shadow fleet that you mentioned?

Shelby Holliday (4:41)

So you can almost think of it as two different oil markets. There's a westernized market that uses oil tankers that have insurance and they're legitimately registered and they transport oil around the world. And then there is this shadow fleet and the Shadow fleet transports oil that is sanctioned and illicit and it carries it to global oil markets. But it does so in a very shady way. They try to hide the origin of the oil that they're transporting. They conceal their locations. They pretend they're somewhere, for example, off the coast of Nigeria, when really they're in Venezuela loading up oil. They falsely flag themselves or pretend to be registered to countries that they're not registered to. They engage in all these deceptive practices. And the reason why is because they're laundering oil and they're transporting it to and from places like Venezuela and Russia. Iran, Cuba is a big recipient of it, so is China.

Jane Kostin (5:32)

This might sound kind of like a stupid question, but why does the shadowy oil market exist?

Shelby Holliday (5:38)

It exists to help countries like Iran and Russia move their oil. These countries have tremendous oil resources, but they face sanctions. And so in order to export that oil and power their economies, they offload the oil onto these ships and then the ships go launder it. Ship to ship transfers shady destinations. And that's how these countries sell their oil. In Russia's case, it's how Russia funds its war in Ukraine.

Jane Kostin (6:05)

Russia and China are both oil rich countries, so they don't need Venezuelan oil. Why are they going through all this trouble?

Shelby Holliday (6:12)

They get Venezuelan oil at discounted prices. So that's the benefit there. In Russia's case, Russia is looked at as sort of the key architect of the dark fleet. And so it's in Russia's interest to have the dark fleet operating around the world and transporting oil to different markets. Russia also sends a lot of chemicals and products to Venezuela, so they don't necessarily need it. It's not like Russia and China's economies are going to collapse without Venezuelan oil. But Venezuela is a key part of this shadow fleet and this global black market.

Jane Kostin (6:45)

So the connection between Venezuela and Russia and China is more than just economic. The Washington Post reported that Venezuela actually asked Russia and China for military support when the US was conducting boat strikes. What was their response?

Shelby Holliday (6:58)

Yeah, we were following that closely and it was surprising to a lot of people that most of the help Venezuela got when it asked for help was simply political. We didn't see, for example, Russia send a bunch of forces or equipment to the country. Same with Cuba. Cuba provides a lot of intelligence support to Venezuela, but it didn't send a ton of military gear or anything like that. But it's. You're right, it's not just economic support. These countries have deep relationships. There were Russian air defenses, for example, on the ground in Venezuela. These countries have helped each other militarily with intelligence, with economic ties, in some cases technology ties, investment in the country. So you can think of it as sort of like this access, this anti US access and these countries have grown closer because of it.

Jane Kostin (7:48)

I actually, I want to ask about Cuba because I think that there's been an argument, one that that close relationship means that the end of Maduro could potentially put the Cuban regime at risk. But also I think that there've just been a lot of questions about the relationship between Venezuela and Cuba. What do we know about that relationship? And in your view, does the end of Maduro spell the potential end of the communist regime in Cuba?

Shelby Holliday (8:13)

Cuba and Venezuela have had very strong ties and for a long time Cuba provided intelligence and political support to Venezuela and Venezuela sent Cuba oil. And therefore the regime did not collapse. The economy sort of plugged along and the two sort of kept each other propped up for a very long time. Yes, I think the end of Maduro could potentially be a huge problem for the regime in Cuba. But it's not necessarily about Maduro. It's about the oil. And the US Right now is very focused on choking off those oil flows to the country. And therefore the country's economy is already on the brink. My colleagues at the Journal just wrote a really eye opening piece about how people are looking for food. There are days and days and days without water. They don't have electricity, lots of blackouts, and so the country is viewed as already on the brink. We've heard officials reference the potential collapse of Cuba in the near future.

Jane Kostin (9:08)

The US has been saying in various ways that it's going to take over Venezuela's oil business. What will it do to that shadow market we've been talking about?

Shelby Holliday (9:16)

I think if you look at the Trump administration's plans for Venezuela, and you know, there are a lot of questions about whether those plans will be implemented or go smoothly. But the goal is to legitimize Venezuela's oil industry. And in order to do that, by the way, the US Is going to control the oil so that the new government, the interim government in the country will do whatever the US Wants it to. But the goal is to legitimize the oil market, export it to the US get rid of this sort of black market piece of it, and bring the oil to legitimate markets. And so for now, we're hearing President Trump say, we're going to sell the oil at market prices, which by the way, Venezuela has not gotten for a very long time, use the money to benefit the people of Venezuela and the United States, not the regime. The regime won't be controlling that money. And if all goes as smoothly, then this will help stabilize the country. That is what Secretary Rubio and others have said.

Jane Kostin (10:11)

Are there real security concerns for the US With Russia and China being involved in Venezuela's economy?

Shelby Holliday (10:17)

There are legitimate concerns for the US about the influence of not just Russia and China, but also Iran and other adversaries. All of these countries want a foothold in the Western Hemisphere. In China's case, for example, great interest in building infrastructure in these countries, partnering with them economically, having access to the waterways, potentially ports. And so the US does view that as a threat. Especially the Trump administration is very open about the fact that the Western hemisphere is ours. We don't want you here. We're hearing that messaging more and more clearly now that Maduro is out. And I thought it was interesting Secretary Rubio on Sunday shows after Maduro was captured, likened Venezuela and South America to Africa and said, you know, over in Africa, these countries take the resources and sort of pillage the nations there, but that won't happen in our hemisphere.

Jane Kostin (11:06)

So you don't think this is just about oil, this is more about hemispheric security?

Shelby Holliday (11:12)

Absolutely.

Jane Kostin (11:13)

I'm curious because keeping in mind with what just happened with this oil tanker, would Venezuela get help from Russia and China? Like what will their relationship with Venezuela be going forward?

Shelby Holliday (11:25)

That's a really big question. And I think it remains to be seen. There are reports from shipping analytics companies that Russia is quite embedded in Venezuela's state run oil company. It might be harder than the US Thinks to get rid of that influence, but I think the goal, at least for the Trump administration is to sort of decouple Venezuela's oil industry from China, Russia, Iran, other adversaries and use the oil to benefit Western markets.

Jane Kostin (11:55)

Shelby, thank you so much for joining me.

Shelby Holliday (11:57)

Thank you for having me.

Jane Kostin (11:59)

That was my conversation with Shelby Holliday, senior video producer and journalist for the Wall Street Journal. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Zebiotics. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I did in college. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is until I found pre alcohol zebiotics. Pre alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on getting my run in the next day. Ready to try it? Go to zbiotics.com wadnow you'll get 15% off your first order when you use code WAD at checkout. Plus it's backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so there's no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. Remember to head to zebiotics.com wad and use the code WAD at checkout for 15% off bundle and safe. With Expedia you were made to follow your favorite band and from the front row we were made to quietly save you more Expedia made to Travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

Kristi Noem (13:43)

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Jane Kostin (14:14)

Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines.

Kristi Noem (14:20)

What I will say is there is deep mistrust because so many of the things that we are hearing are not true. You know, again, obviously people can come to different conclusions and have different perspectives. But when there is debate about baseline facts like for instance, did the ICE agent get run over? Guys, the answer is no. It didn't happen.

Jane Kostin (14:46)

Jacob Fry, the Democratic mayor of Minneapolis, spoke to CBS's Face Nation on Sunday about Renee Goode, the 37 year old mother of three killed by immigration and Customs Enforcement last week. Fry pointed to a central flashpoint in the case. Once video of the incident went public, a clear gap emerged between what people could see for themselves and what the Trump administration was saying. CNN anchor Jake Tapper asked Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem about the shooting on Sunday.

Kristi Noem (15:11)

Why are you so certain that your interpretation is the truth when an investigation hasn't even happened? Jake, I'm watching the videos. Other people.

Shelby Holliday (15:21)

Everything that we've stated is the Department of Homeland Security and this administration has been factual. And I wish we would talk factually about what we see every day from these protesters.

Jane Kostin (15:31)

Okay, let's do it. Let's talk about the thousands who marched in Minneapolis to protest one of hundreds of gatherings that popped up across the country. According to the BBC, 30 protesters were arrested in Minneapolis and one police officer suffered minor wounds after they were allegedly hit with a chunk of ice. Coast to coast, state lawmakers are rushing new immigration enforcement bills in the wake of Good's death. The policies include things like banning ICE from wearing masks or preventing ICE officers hired under the Trump administration from pursuing careers in state or local policing. And kudos to Jake Tapper for asking Kristi Noem about another set of widely viewed images involving federal law enforcement, the January 6th insurrection.

Kristi Noem (16:10)

Those are law enforcement officers being physically attacked. By this standard, would any of those officers be justified in shooting and killing the people, causing them physical harm?

Shelby Holliday (16:21)

Every single situation is going to rely on the situation those officers are on. But they know that when people are putting hands on them, when they are using weapons against them, when they are physically harming them, that they have the authority to arrest those individuals.

Kristi Noem (16:35)

The president pardoned every single one of.

Jane Kostin (16:37)

Those people, but those police officers were trying to stop Trump's allies. So it's very different. Iran's government cut Internet and phone service nationwide on Thursday, and as of local time Monday morning in Iran, it's still off. The blackout has disconnected the country's 85 million people from the outside world, making it difficult to monitor the situation on the ground from abroad. The Iranian government continued to suppress large scale protests over the weekend. According to Human Rights Activists News Agency, a U S based human rights organization, there have been nearly 600 protests across more than 180 cities and all provinces. The Iranian government's crackdown on the protests has reportedly killed over 500 civilians. Iranians took to the streets in late December after their currency plunged and inflation topped 40%, making already brutal living costs even worse. The economic spiral reignited years of frustration with the country's clerical rulers. President Trump, donning his usual keyboard warrior armor, posted on Truth Social over the weekend, quote, the USA stands ready to help. Days earlier, he posted a warning to Tehran that if violence against protesters continued, the US Was locked and loaded and ready to go. And this time, Americans may want to heed his warning. Administration officials told Politico that Trump is expected to be briefed Tuesday on both kinetic and non kinetic options for Iran. Tehran has warned that any US Strike would make American forces and Israel, quote, unquote, legitimate targets in Russia and Ukraine. War rages on. A Ukrainian drone strike killed one person in Russia and hurt at least three others, local officials said Sunday. Ukraine's military said its forces hit drilling platforms operated by a Russian oil giant in the Caspian Sea. According to Ukrainian officials. The attacks followed a bombardment in which Russia sent hundreds of drones and dozens of missiles into Ukraine. Earlier in the week. At least four people were killed in Kyiv. And for just the second time since the war began, Russia used a powerful hypersonic missile that struck western Ukraine. Here's Michael Bossiciu of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia center talking to CBS News on Friday about the nuclear capable Ereshnik missile.

Kristi Noem (18:52)

We're not quite sure why they did this. It didn't apparently create that much damage. However, what it does do is send a signal, of course, not only to Ukraine, but also to the EU and to NATO is that we can strike anywhere close to your border and we can strike very, very hard.

Jane Kostin (19:11)

Ukraine's minister of foreign affairs said on Twitter that the UN Security Council would hold an emergency meeting today in the wake of Russia's recent attacks. You know that thing that Trump does where he just sort of pulls an idea out of a hat on true social and claims it's happening, but in reality there's not even a concept of a plan to make it happen. Well, he did it again. On Friday, Trump wrote, quote, effective January 20, 2026, I, as President of the United States am calling for a one year cap on credit card interest rates of 10%. He also posted affordability in all caps because saying it loudly makes it so. Trump, who once referred to himself as the king of Debt, offered no details on how the cap would be implemented or whether it be voluntary or enforced by the government. The post was part of a broader week long push by Trump to sell populist economic ideas. By doing so. By posting, you can almost hear Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders muttering to himself, well, well, well. And that's the news. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, say sayonara to a black bear who has finally left his den, which happened to be in the crawlspace of a Los Angeles home and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the bear, which weighed more than 500 pounds, was spending its hibernation in the crawl space of an Altadena home until a non profit group focused on improving human bear relations got the bear to finally take his leave. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and to quote the homeowner, there's a relief. It feels like, you know, you had a bunch of dinner guests over and now the party's over. Well, it wasn't a party, but you know they're gone and now you've got a bunch of dirty dishes and empty glasses to deal with. But in this case, the dinner guest was a bear. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our producer is Kaitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Tutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Ethan Oberman, Greg Walters and Matt Burke. Our senior producer is Erika Morrison and our senior Vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Kantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Are you curious about the hidden side of everything? Then I have a podcast for you. I'm Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. Each week we hear from some of the most fascinating scholars and thinkers as we tackle big topics like how whales became the face of environmental activism, how to succeed at failing, and whether public transportation should be free. Go ahead, listen to Freakonomics Radio wherever you get your podcasts.

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