Co-host or Guest Commentator (2:24)

But blaming Donald Trump would give him

Jane Coaston (2:26)

too much agency, I guess. So a host of people on the far right have decided that Trump was a victim of Israel and by default, American Jews. And that's a problem, because the way some on the American right and the American left are talking about Israel has edged and in some cases burst through the damn wall like the Kool Aid man into outright anti Semitism. And with multiple violent attacks on synagogues around the world over the last few weeks, the lack of distinction between Israel, the country, and Jewish people is having

Co-host or Guest Commentator (2:52)

a very dangerous impact.

Jane Coaston (2:54)

So to talk more about the war in Iran and rising anti Semitic attitudes, I spoke with Zach Beacham. He's senior correspondent at Vox, and he recently wrote about the rise of anti war antisemitism. Zach, welcome back to what a Day.

Zach Beauchamp (3:07)

Hey, Jane, it's always a pleasure to talk to you.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (3:09)

The now former director of the National Counterterrorism Center, Joe Kent, resigned, citing concerns that Israel pressured the US into the war with Iran. You wrote that his resignation letter suggests

Jane Coaston (3:21)

Kent is, quote, laying the groundwork for

Co-host or Guest Commentator (3:23)

an anti Semitic conspiracy theory that could

Jane Coaston (3:25)

define the future of the gop.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (3:27)

I definitely noticed some, what I think struck you as thinly veiled anti Semitism in the letter that wasn't just criticism of the war or Israeli policy.

Jane Coaston (3:37)

What struck you?

Zach Beauchamp (3:39)

So the letter takes this view, right, that Israel pushed the US into war. But it goes much more than that. It's that Israel duped Donald Trump in a war that he was tricked into, a war he otherwise wouldn't have wanted, which is just, first of all, not at all true. Trump has decades and decades and decades of public statements talking about how hawkish he was in Iran. So it's not as if this guy was an unwilling warrior here. But I think more importantly, it's that Kent posits Israeli influence not just as you know, there's legitimate debate about how much Israel played a role in the decision to go to war, but as a sort of catch all cause for everything that's gone wrong in US Foreign policy. For instance, he says Israel was responsible for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a claim that has absolutely no basis in reality. And he also claims that Israel was responsible for the war in which his wife died, which is a tragic event. I don't want to downplay that, but she died as part of the counter ISIS effort. Again, had nothing to do with Israel,

Co-host or Guest Commentator (4:36)

unless you believe the conspiracy theory, which is kind of out there, that Israel is responsible for isis. And I think that's something we keep seeing, is this level of, like, MAGA denialism that ties into this, where Trump is just this poor, sad dupe, as you put it who is not responsible for the war that is very unpopular. It's kind of that there's this old saying, good czar, bad boyars, which is that, you know, the czar is great, but everyone around him is just giving him this terrible advice and that's why bad things happen. And, and in this instance, it seems to be that Trump would be so great. But it's Israel. It's Israel that's responsible for everything that's bad that he's doing.

Zach Beauchamp (5:19)

Yeah, that's, that's basically the way that this logic is going in the circles that Kent runs in. And to be clear, this wasn't actually that surprising from Joe Kent. In 2021, he had a phone call with Nick Fuentes about structuring his social media strategy. Like he comes from this milieu in the Pacific Northwest. He ran for Congress in Washington twice, unsuccessfully in 2022 and 2020. Very sort of extremist, fringy, militia adjacent, white nationalist adjacent world that brings him in contact with people like Fuentes. He even paid a proud boy at one point as a campaign consultant. Right. This is the world in which Kent comes from. And so for him to leap into an anti Semitic explanation for why the US has entered into a war that he and I both believe is ill considered, like we share that belief, but I can't at all be associated with his explanation as to why that's the case because it really is deeply conspiratorial and it's the way that people on that side of the GOP have been articulating this. Right. And careful to avoid blaming Trump. As you say, there's a good czar, bad boyars dynamic that exists because Trump is all powerful in the Maga movement. Right. It's, he can do no wrong in the eyes of the sort of core and base of the Republican Party right now. And going up against him is a losing fight. So every Republican who wants to criticize one of his policies has to find someone else to blame for it. Oftentimes that's, you know, one of his deputies. But in this case, among people like Tucker Carlson or Candace Owens or Nick Fuentes, it's the Jews, right? Or oftentimes Israel used in as a very, very, very thin stand in for American Jews. Right. And you see that in Kent's letter too, where he talks about the American lobby for Israel and then the media, which is like the real tell here, because that's what the hardcore anti Semites say when they want to blame the Jews. It's the Jewish media or the media in parentheses with it.

Jane Coaston (7:08)

Right.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (7:08)

It's interesting also to hear the administration talk about Jo Kent as if this were not the person who was nominated by Donald Trump. But Kent is a Trump loyalist. He's had those ties to far right figures who've promoted anti Semitic ideas, as you've mentioned. But Trump has always positioned himself as a friend of Israel. But he talks about Jewish people in

Jane Coaston (7:28)

a very stereotypical way.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (7:30)

And he always has. He's always talked about how he wants Jewish people to be controlling his money. And he thinks that this is being very pro Jewish when it's absolutely not. It's always been interesting to me that you have so many rabid anti Semites who have become such big supporters of Donald Trump, who is deeply philosemitic in a very strange way. What happens when these two strains collide inside the same administration? And does Kent's exit signal deeper fractures among US Officials who are supposed to be shaping a policy towards Iran?

Zach Beauchamp (8:07)

So, you know, Trump is a very interesting figure and philo Semitism in general is very interesting because it's always anti Semitic adjacent because it basically just takes those negative stereotypes, as you just suggested, and turns them into something positive. It's like, oh, the Jews are good with money. Isn't it great to be good with money? Right. It's always one hop away from anti Semitism. It's not a distinct thing, but rather a prelude to disliking Jews or spreading negative stereotypes about Jews. And in that way, Trump's bluntness about using anti Semitic stereotypes, even if he does put a positive spin on them, has emboldened the entry of anti Semites into America, American public life. So that allows there to be in MAGA, sort of both of these things at once. There are strains of the sort of Trump following who are heartily just old school pro Israel Republicans. And at the same time, Trump has normalized white nationalist stereotype or white nationalism. And they exist. They coexist with each other and don't talk about each other except when they're mad about a particular policy issue. And then they fight online incessantly. And so you've seen huge fights between most notably Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson, who are just like bitter enemies, right? Because they represent these two different wings in the very online way and sort of fighting about it all the time. I think that what happens later is going to happen after Trump is off the scene. Right? Because Trump in his person papers over these distinctions. He allows both of these groups to exist together in the same coalition by picking up on different elements of Trumpism. But, but it's only Trump's magnetism, it's only his unique personality and role in the base that allows them to coexist comfortably. And so I think once he's gone, there will be a reckoning over what the true conservative or right wing position on Israel and Jews is.

Jane Coaston (10:00)

I wanted to ask a bigger question

Co-host or Guest Commentator (10:02)

because something I noticed immediately was how many people who are liberal Democrats saw that letter and we're like reposting it and sharing it and talking about like, someone's finally standing up against this war. I'm like, okay, I totally understand that.

Jane Coaston (10:19)

But I also, I'm like, you're not

Co-host or Guest Commentator (10:20)

seeing the part of how he's blaming Israel for ISIS murdering his wife. You're not seeing these little things about how it's treating Israel as if it is responsible for all of this. And I think that you and I have both seen how anti Israel rhetoric, which I completely understand, if we're talking about Israel as a country, if we're talking about Israel as a state with a government that is, I think, doing terrible things both internally and externally, I think we've seen people turn, you know, talking about Israel, the country into talking about Jewish people. And those are two different things. There are clearly ways to talk about

Jane Coaston (10:58)

those goals and talk about the war.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (11:00)

And even as I have done repeatedly criticize this war of choice while treating Israel as a country and not embracing antisemitism. Why do you think that has proven so hard for so many people across

Jane Coaston (11:14)

the political spectrum to do?

Zach Beauchamp (11:16)

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's deeply and profoundly messed up and illustrates how badly our discourse on this particular issue is broken.

Megan McCardell (11:26)

Right.

Zach Beauchamp (11:26)

We've talked a lot about the political right and it's very obvious where people are getting the conflation of Jews in Israel from there on the left, the, the dynamic is a little bit different. I think it's that there is a, in an anger at the American Jewish community for having pro Israel politics, and there's an anger for being very, very critical of pro Palestinian politics. And this means that sort of hardline anti Israel politics will shade into an outright condemnation of many mainstream Jewish American institutions and blaming them for American policy, when in fact American Jews are not. The real reason why the US has adopted the various policies it has over the course of many, with respect to the Israel Palestine conflict, really isn't the reason, but there is an anger and a mistrust there. And a lot of that, especially at the furthest left reaches, shades into outright anti Semitism because Anti Semitism isn't an exclusively right wing phenomenon historically. It's something that spans all ideological tendencies, left, right and center. There are just different species of antisemitism. And the way that left wing antisemitism manifests today is as a conspiracy theory in which Israel is pulling the strings of American politics. Israel and its Jewish allies in the US to ruin things and to ensure that the country does not do the right thing when it comes to the conflict in the Middle East. And you know, sometimes there, there are gray areas here, right? Like you let in with people praising the Joe Kent letter on social media. Part of that may be that people didn't actually read the letter and they just saw Trump administration official breaks over this. And the other part is that American politics is highly polarized and so enemy of the my enemy is my friend logic leads people to say that, well, if someone in the Trump administration is breaking with him on the war, that's great, right? It shows splintering MAGA over the war. Maybe the war will end sooner. I don't think Kent portrays that. But what it does suggest is that they're not attuned to the way in which antisemitism can very easily become mainstream and anti Semitic myth making can become a really powerful force. Right. Kent's letter will be cited by anti Semites in the future as proof that someone on the inside knew what the Jews are doing. And that will happen on both the right and the left.

Jane Coaston (13:48)

Zach, as always, thank you so much for joining me.

Zach Beauchamp (13:51)

Thank you, Jane. It was a dark subject matter. Lovely conversation.

Jane Coaston (13:55)

That was my conversation with Zach Beecham, senior correspondent at Vox. We'll link to his piece in the show Notes. Thanks for starting your week off right by listening to what a Day. If you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (14:19)

What a Day is brought to you

Jane Coaston (14:20)

by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else. Whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space and lifestyle. And Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your Dream Yard. Just click, order, grow and get healthy, thriving plants delivered to your door. Their alive and thrive guarantee promises your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required, just quality plants that you can count on. Plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way. Fast Growing Trees has made the best gifts ever for family and friends, from the support they offer to the beautiful trees that will last for decades. It's a wonderful way of spreading love and care. And here's what's awesome. You don't need a big yard or a lot of space. You can grow lemon, avocado, olive or fig trees indoors, along with a wide variety of houseplants, all grown with care and hand selected to thrive in your home. You can find more plants than you'll find anywhere else, including rare and unique varieties and plants for every growing zone and climate. Right now they have great deals on spring planting essentials, up to half off on select plants and listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code WAD at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code WAD at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code WAD now is a perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use WAD to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Wadaday is brought to you by ZBiotics. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is, until I found pre alcohol zebiotics. Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on working out without worry. March is a marathon of social events from the slopes to the bracket watch parties to Guinness on St Patrick's Day. Pre alcohol is the tool you need to fully enjoy the end of winter. Go to zebiotics.com wad to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use Code WAD at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbotics.com wad and use the code WAD at checkout for 15% off.

Jon Favreau (17:25)

If you guys like Pod Save America, please consider subscribing to our Friends at the Pod program. So Friends of the POD get lots of stuff.

Tommy Vietor (17:31)

You get more Pod Save America.

Jon Favreau (17:32)

That includes our new show which is

Tommy Vietor (17:34)

called Pod Save America.

Jon Favreau (17:35)

Only friends, it's where Dan gets naked, where Dan gets full frontal nudity. But mostly it's a bi weekly subscription

Tommy Vietor (17:41)

exclusive podcast that is basically Pod Save

Jon Favreau (17:43)

America but behind a paywall so it's a little bit looser and more fun. And it's love it. And Favreau and me and Pfeiffer and then other crooked hosts, we go deeper on the news and cover more stories. You also get Open Tabs, which is a weekly behind the scenes newsletter from the show. Plus you get ad free episodes of your favorite crooked podcasts and all kinds of other stuff. Dan will come to your house and clean it once every quarter. Yeah, clothed. Dan is very busy. Clothed only. But along with just getting great content, Becoming a Friend of the Pod Joining our subscription community is the number one thing you can do to help us grow to help independent progressive media. So if you're ever thought about doing it, if you ever wanted more Pod Save America, consider going to cricket.com friends and becoming a friend of the pod.

Megan McCardell (18:23)

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm gonna talk to people who see a path forward.

Guest on Reasonably Optimistic (18:40)

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

Tommy Vietor (18:46)

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

Megan McCardell (18:49)

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jane Coaston (18:54)

Here's what else we're following today.

Zach Beauchamp (18:56)

Head of Lines

Scott Baesel (Treasury Secretary) (19:00)

Every day we are taking out their missiles, their missile systems and the factories that build those missiles. And now the General Kane Secretary Hegseth are leading a campaign to destroy all the fortifications along the Straits of Hormuz.

Christian Welker (19:16)

Just to put a fine point on this though, is the president in the process of winding down this war or escalating again?

Scott Baesel (Treasury Secretary) (19:22)

They're not mutually exclusive. Sometimes you have to escalate to de escalate.

Jane Coaston (19:28)

Treasury Secretary and great communicator Scott BESANT spoke with NBC's Christian Welker on Meet the Press Sunday. Welker asked Bessant to clarify whether the US Is escalating the war with Iran because over the weekend President Trump threatened to escalate the war with Iran. In a truth social post Saturday night, Trump wrote that if Iran does not open the Strait of Hormuz within 48 hours, the US quote, will hit and obliterate their various power plants, starting with the biggest one first. Iran's parliament speaker responded on Twitter by saying that if the US Attacks the country's power plants, Iran will start to target infrastructure across the Middle East. Gas prices in the US have gone up by almost a dollar over the past month, according to aaa. In response, on Friday, Secretary Besant announced that the US Is lifting sanctions on Iranian oil that is already at sea and claimed, quote, Iran will have difficulty accessing any revenue generated from the sale of this oil.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (20:18)

What?

Jane Coaston (20:19)

It seems odd to lift sanctions on oil from the country we're currently at war with. And analysts who spoke with the Associated Press and the Guardian say the move won't have much of an impact on gas prices. Great work all around. Robert Mueller passed away on Friday at the age of 81. Mueller, a decorated Marine Corps officer who received a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart for his actions during the Vietnam War, served as director of the FBI under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. Before serving as FBI director, he successfully prosecuted Mafia boss John Gotti and Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega. But he's probably best known for his work as special counsel during Trump's first term in office, when he investigated Russian interference in the 2016 election. And that's when he became the object of Trump's ire, which continued this weekend when Trump greeted news of Mueller's passing with what I'd argue was glee Treasury Secretary. And again, great communicator Scott Besant was forced to do cleanup duty of Trump's gross social media comments on Sunday, facing questioning during his interview with Kristen Welker.

Christian Welker (21:22)

Is it appropriate for the president to celebrate the death of any American citizen?

Scott Baesel (Treasury Secretary) (21:26)

Mr. Secretary, again, I think that given what has been done to President Trump and his family, it is impossible for either of us to understand what he has been through.

Christian Welker (21:36)

So you don't think that there's anything wrong with the post saying good Robert Mueller's again?

Scott Baesel (Treasury Secretary) (21:41)

I think that we should all have a little empathy for what has been done to him and his family.

Jane Coaston (21:49)

Yes, empathy. A sentiment Donald Trump has never felt in his entire life. The Trump administration has a plan to make airport security lines even more unpleasant. Throw some ICE officers in there and see what happens. Transportation Security Administration agents are working without pay as the Department of Homeland Security shutdown continues to Hundreds of agents have quit and many more have called out from work, leading to long wait times at airports across the country. The GOP has resisted demands from Democrats to enforce new restrictions on Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers. And over the weekend, President Trump announced that starting today, ICE officers will be deployed to airports to assist TSA. CNN's Dana Bash asked White House border czar Tom Homan about exactly how much planning went into this decision on Sunday. With respect, if you're doing this in 24 hours, how well thought out could it possibly be

Tom Homan (22:41)

again? ICE has been at airports across the country for a long time. It's just expanding those things. Look, it does. How much of a plan does it mean to guard an exit, to make sure no one comes through that exit?

Jane Coaston (22:53)

Because what could go wrong when Trump sends a bunch of poorly trained ICE officers somewhere they aren't supposed to be? The White House welcomed a new addition to its grounds on Sunday, a statue of Christopher Columbus. It's a replica of the Columbus Monument that was tossed into Baltimore's harbor in 2020amid protests against institutional racism. A White House spokesman told the New York Times, quote, in this White House, Christopher Columbus is a hero, and President Trump will ensure he's honored as such for generations to come. It's sure nice to know that during a war in Iran and a partial government shutdown here at home, President Trump is focused on the important things, honoring a man who has come to be recognized by many as a primary example of Western Europe's conquest of the New World, its pillaging of resources and native people, and, of course, of getting lost and getting arrested by the government that employed you. And that's the news. Before we go this year, Votes of America is pulling back the curtain on the places and races that matter most to decide the fate of the midterms. November will decide control of Congress, and if Trump maintains his Republican trifecta. And that's why Votes of America is here to offer takes and tips on how, when and where to donate to make sure your money goes the furthest how to confidently talk to the people in your life about midterms and key issues and opportunities to take action with your community in real life. Sign up@votesaveamerica.com to make sure you're up to date with the latest. Then send the sign up link to Five Friends page four by VoteSave America. Learn more at votesaveamerica.com this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. That's all for today.

Co-host or Guest Commentator (24:35)

If you liked the show, make sure

Jane Coaston (24:36)

you subscribe, Leave a review Please stop South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham from speaking on television and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how Graham went on Fox News Sunday and said this about seizing an island in the Persian Gulf critical to Iranian oil exports.

Lindsey Graham (24:51)

I trust DOD we got two Marine Expeditionary Units sailing to this island. We did Iwo Jima. We can do this. The Marines. My money is always on the Marines like me.

Jane Coaston (25:03)

What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and Iwo Jima was one of the bloodiest battles at the Pacific theater with 30,000 allied casualties over a five week period. Lindsey Graham so it sure seems weird to sound this excited about anything coming even close unless you're signing up. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Foer. Our producer is Kaitlyn Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Sean Ali and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erika Morrison and

Co-host or Guest Commentator (25:48)

our senior Vice President of News and

Jane Coaston (25:49)

Politics is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Cantor. We'd help today from the Associated Press Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

Jon Favreau (26:12)

If you guys like Positive America, please consider subscribing to our Friends of the Pod program. So Friends of the POD get lots of stuff.

Tommy Vietor (26:18)

You get more Pod Save America.

Jon Favreau (26:19)

That includes our new show which is

Tommy Vietor (26:21)

called Pod Save America.

Jon Favreau (26:22)

Only Friends. It's where Dan gets naked, where Dan gets full frontal nudity. But mostly it's a bi weekly subscription

Tommy Vietor (26:28)

exclusive podcast that is basically Pod Save

Jon Favreau (26:30)

America but behind a paywall so it's a little bit looser and more fun. And it's love it and Favreau and me and Pfeiffer and then other crooked hosts, we go deeper on the news and cover more stories. You also get open tabs which so weekly behind the scenes newsletter from the show. Plus you get ad free episodes of your favorite crooked podcasts and all kinds of other stuff. Dan will come to your house and clean it once every quarter. Yeah, clothed. Dan is very busy. Clothed only. But along with just getting great content Becoming a Friend of the Pod Joining our subscription community is the number one thing you can do to help us grow to help independent progressive media. So if you're ever thought about doing it, if you ever wanted more pod save America, consider going to cricket.com friends and becoming a friend of the pod.

Mayflower Mover Representative (27:10)

As America's most trusted movers, Mayflower has seen it all from big dreams and new beginnings.

Zach Beauchamp (27:16)

All right, here we are.

Jane Coaston (27:18)

Oh, it's perfect.

Mayflower Mover Representative (27:19)

To first steps and fixer uppers from starter homes.

Jane Coaston (27:23)

So guess what? We're having another.

Zach Beauchamp (27:26)

Another. We definitely need more space to more practical homes.

Mayflower Mover Representative (27:30)

Yes, Mayflower has been there for it all and will always have your back. Every moment, every move, every step of the way. Schedule your move now by going to mayflower.com has the news been getting you down?

Megan McCardell (27:42)

I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm gonna talk to people who see a path forward.

Guest on Reasonably Optimistic (27:58)

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

Tommy Vietor (28:04)

No? I am a believer in America and that's worth fighting for.

Megan McCardell (28:07)

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.