The Many Faces Of Tucker Carlson

Summary

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Podcast Summary: What A Day — "The Many Faces Of Tucker Carlson"

Date: February 4, 2026
Host: Jane Coaston
Guest: Jason Zengerle (author of Hated by All the Right People: Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind)

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, host Jane Coaston explores the complex, ever-evolving persona of Tucker Carlson with journalist Jason Zengerle, whose new book examines the Fox News alumnus’s role in shaping right-wing media and American conservatism. They trace Carlson’s shifting identity, personal motivations, and lasting influence on both conservative and national politics, while questioning how opposing media and political actors have contributed to his rise.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tucker Carlson’s Many Eras

• Early Career & TV Debut:

  • Carlson started in the conservative magazine The Weekly Standard in the 1990s, then transitioned to TV.
  • Hosted CNN’s Crossfire in the early 2000s, playing "token conservative" alongside Paul Begala.

• Pivotal ‘Crossfire’ Moment:

  • Jon Stewart’s 2004 appearance on Crossfire is highlighted as a turning point, where Stewart criticized the show’s format and Carlson’s approach:
    • "This went on for 15 excruciating minutes…When Crossfire was canceled the next year, CNN’s then-president pointed to that moment as the reason why." – Jane Coaston [02:54]

• MSNBC, then Fox News:

  • Spent a few years at MSNBC before joining Fox News in 2009, which is where he honed his talent for reflecting and amplifying his audience’s views.

2. Carlson’s Adaptability and Ambition

• Constant Reinvention:

  • Jason Zengerle refers to "Tucker 6.0" to describe Carlson’s many stages but notes every transformation is "carefully calibrated to meet the moment." [06:12]
  • Carlson has become adept at giving conservative audiences what they want, even if it means drifting toward more extreme rhetoric, including white nationalism and anti-Semitism.

• Notable Quote:

  • "He goes where his audience already is and gives his audience exactly what they want, feeding some of their worst impulses again and again under the glossy veneer of respectability." – Jane Coaston [02:54]

• Charming Persona vs. On-Air Vitriol:

  • Carlson’s personal charm contrasts sharply with his angry, inflammatory on-air personality. Both Coaston and Zengerle recall his affability in private and professional circles.
    • "Yeah...best boss ever." – Jason Zengerle [04:56]

3. Carlson’s Power & Influence Tactics

• Attention Economy and Rage-Baiting:

  • Sharing clips of Carlson to generate outrage has paradoxically amplified his impact.
    • "That was a huge phenomenon when he had the Fox show..." – Jason Zengerle [08:21]
    • Coaston asks: Are liberals and progressives unwittingly helping Carlson by amplifying his message?
    • Zengerle argues that while blue America may have moved on after Fox, Carlson remains extremely influential with conservative audiences, particularly around the 2024 and 2026 elections.

• Key Motivations:

  • Zengerle identifies a through line: Carlson’s quest for "power and stature," now coupled with a sharply focused ideological project modeled on a more homogeneous, traditionally conservative America. [09:48]

4. Complexity and Contradictions

• Not Just a Party-Line Conservative:

  • Carlson shows moments of independent thinking, e.g., regretting support for the Iraq War after firsthand exposure, and early COVID-19 warnings to President Trump.
    • "He clearly wants power, but he denigrates people who are in power, who he doesn’t think should be in power." – Jane Coaston [10:35]

• Relationship to Trump and MAGA:

  • While Carlson was once more willing to critique Trump (often from the right), he’s now more cautious to maintain influence with both Trump and the MAGA base.
    • "He’s wary of going too hard at Trump…He wants people to think maybe he has more sway than he does." – Jason Zengerle [11:26]
  • Zengerle highlights the tension as the MAGA movement splinters, raising open questions about its future if/when Trump disappears from the scene.

5. Alignments with the Far Right

• Nick Fuentes Interview:
  • Carlson’s willingness to interview figures like Nick Fuentes signals how far he’s willing to go not to alienate fringe groups, even as MAGA’s internal divisions deepen.
    • "He thinks that to be successful in conservative media and conservative politics these days, you can’t afford to alienate the neo-Nazis." – Jason Zengerle [14:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Carlson’s Career Evolution:
  • "We’re like Tucker 6.0 now, probably." – Jason Zengerle [06:12]
• On His Audience Strategy:
  • "The thing that Tucker valued most of all was a person’s willingness to write something that would make liberals mad." – recounted from Mike Riggs, per Zengerle [07:41]
• On Fox News & Rage Bait:
  • "There was this whole, like, economy…liberal websites…would have reporters whose job was just to clip Tucker’s show each night and put up the worst stuff on Twitter the next day as kind of rage bait to get engagement." – Jason Zengerle [08:21]
• On Power & Vision:
  • "I think his vision is very similar to Stephen Miller’s vision at this point. It’s a United States that is a lot more homogenous, a lot whiter." – Jason Zengerle [09:48]
• On the Future of MAGA:
  • "Will MAGA continue being MAGA without Trump?...Tucker is heading toward similar territory [to Fuentes]," navigating between influence in the administration and appeal to the far right. – Jason Zengerle [13:51–15:27]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–02:54] — Setting up the scope of Carlson’s influence & media history
• [03:53–06:12] — Jason Zengerle introduces his first impressions and Carlson’s charm offensive
• [06:12–09:48] — Examining Carlson’s many reinventions & strategic adaptation
• [07:41–08:21] — Discussion of ‘rage-bait’ and media amplification of Carlson
• [09:48–11:26] — Carlson’s motivations and power versus influence dynamic
• [13:16–15:27] — Carlson’s relationship to MAGA, Trump, and the far right
• [15:27] — Closing thank-yous and book plug

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Summary Takeaways

• Tucker Carlson is an agile media figure, constantly evolving to anticipate and reflect the mood of the conservative base in America.
• His success is built on adapting his persona, sometimes adopting more extreme views, always with the aim of consolidating stature, power, and influence.
• Media outrage—especially from liberal outlets—has sometimes amplified Carlson’s reach, a paradox that continues to fuel his relevance in the right-wing ecosystem.
• Despite claims of marginalization post-Fox, Carlson’s influence endures, especially through cultural and political moments where his ability to channel conservative grievance remains unmatched.
• The future of both Carlson and the MAGA movement is in flux, with the right at a crossroads in the wake of Trump’s second presidency and rising far-right fragmentation.

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Recommended for listeners who want an in-depth, clear-eyed look at how personalities like Carlson shape American politics and media, including their complicated relationships with power, ideology, and evolving political movements.

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Transcript

[Jane Coaston]

Foreign February 4th. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a Day. The show that stands with Department of Justice lawyer Julie Lee, who broke down in federal court Tuesday and told a judge, quote, the system sucks. This job sucks. When the judge asked her why ICE is disobeying court orders, she then asked to be held in contempt so that she could get some sleep. Julie, you're not wrong. The system does suck. I wonder how it got that way. On today's show, the partial government shutdown ends, but the fight to reform U.S. immigration enforcement continues. And are we going to war with Iran? But let's start with Tucker Carlson. You probably are aware of the current version of Tucker Carlson, the former Fox News titan and GOP kingmaker who now hosts a podcast where he has conversations with conservatives and other people you'd probably try to avoid at the company holiday party, like white nationalist Nick Fuentes, who joined Carlson last year to discuss a wide array of topics, including some of the problems with modern women.

[Jason Zengerly]

They're very feminist. Like, actually extremely feminist. Yes. They don't believe that, do they? I think they do.

[Jane Coaston]

Really?

[Jason Zengerly]

Absolutely, Yes, I believe that. I think gender roles are a construct, that none of this is inborn. Like, you'd have to be an idiot to think that they like the idea of it.

[Jane Coaston]

The two worst people you know, both of whom have real political sway, just saying exactly to each other for two hours. Fun. But unless you've been following conservative media for a long time, you might not know that there have actually been many eras of Tucker Carlson. He is like Taylor Swift, but all of his eras are shitty. For example, Carlson launched his career in print journalism writing for the conservative magazine the Weekly Standard in the mid-1990s. Then he gravitated to the bright lights of television. By the early 2000s, Carlson was hosting a debate show called Crossfire on CNN. He played the token conservative to the show's token liberal, Paul Bagala, and they'd basically just argue with each other until Daily show host Jon Stewart came on the program in 2004 and set the entire concept of treating political disagreement entertainment on fire.

[Kaitlan Collins]

The thing that I want to say is when you have people on for just knee jerk reactionary talk.

[Jane Coaston]

Wait, I thought you were going to be funny. Come on, be funny.

[Kaitlan Collins]

No, I'm not going to be your monkey. Go ahead. Go ahead. I watch your show every day and it kills me.

[Jane Coaston]

I can tell you love it.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Oh, it's so painful to watch, you know, because we need what you do. This is such a great opportunity you have here. To actually get politicians off of their marketing and strategy. Yeah, it's someone who watches your show and cannot take it anymore.

[Jane Coaston]

This went on for 15 excruciating minutes. And when Crossfire was canceled the next year, CNN's then president pointed to that moment as the reason why. Tucker then spent a few years at MSNBC before finally in 2009, he landed at Fox News. And that's where he developed his superpower, which is actually very simple. He goes where his audience already is and he gives his audience exactly what they want, feeding some of their worst impulses again and again under the glossy veneer of respectability. That ability to make the extreme palatable is what has made Carlson the most important person to watch in right wing media ever since. New Yorker staff writer Jason Zengerly first met Carlson back in the 1990s and has been following his career ever since. His new book, hated by all the Right Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind, examines Carlson's evolution and the media's. We spoke about Carlson's past and what his shifting priorities can tell us about American politics. Jason, welcome to what a Day.

[Jason Zengerly]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coaston]

Early in your book, you describe first meeting Tucker Carlson almost 20 years ago. What was your first impression of him?

[Jason Zengerly]

I mean, I don't want to make myself seem like too young and naive, but I was, you know, I was impressed. You know, his byline preceded me meeting him, so he was someone whose writing I respected and looked up to. Cause he was, he's only a few years older than me, but he was way ahead of where I was career. I was just an intern at the New Republic and he was a staff writer at the Weekly Standard and was kind of doing the stories that I would like to do. But beyond that, he was actually quite nice and funny and charming. And I think a lot of people in his position kind of didn't have time for the interns. And he was really, really friendly. I was like, wow, what a guy.

[Jane Coaston]

Yeah, it's interesting, in my conversations with him from years ago, what struck me was the charm. Like he does do kind of a charm offensive towards people. And it's interesting to your point. I've heard from people who worked for him at Daily Caller who were like interns who were like, yeah, he was really nice all the time.

[Jason Zengerly]

Yeah. Best boss ever.

[Jane Coaston]

Yeah. And it is striking how he like turns on this charm and charisma with people in their circle. And then, you know, was it strange for you to see this person who you'd interacted with. And then you see what they became on Fox News, and you see how vitriolic he is, and you see how he can become wildly angry about anything, absolutely anything. Was that strange, or did that really strike you as being like, oh, he's playing a part?

[Jason Zengerly]

You know, I never really knew him well enough to know whether he was playing a part or not. I mean, he was someone I knew professionally and would talk to, you know, for stories. But I also felt that he seemed to inhabit the role kind of more comfortably, maybe, and more fully. Like, the role ultimately kind of took over the whole personality at some point, at least on his Fox program. And it made me, I think, conclude ultimately that, yeah, he kind of does believe this. This is what he's become.

[Jane Coaston]

That goes to something I really liked about your book, which is that you take the reader through a lot of twists and turns in Tucker's career, but one thing is that he's always adapting and reinventing himself every couple of years. We have seen now, like, multiple iterations of Tucker Carlson. Can you describe some of those different iterations?

[Jason Zengerly]

Yeah, I mean, we're. I think we're like Tucker 6.0 now, probably. The thing about all of roles is they're always very sort of carefully calibrated to meet the moment. I think earlier in his career, he missed the moment a few times, and he was out of step with where kind of media was at that moment or where it was headed. I mean, you certainly see that in his early cable news career when he has a lot of success at cnn. But then after the Jon Stewart debacle, where Jon Stewart shows up on Crossfire and humiliates him, he kind of stayed true to it after the show had outlived its usefulness. And I think, similarly, his time at msnbc, he just wasn't a good fit. But ever since leaving MSNBC, you know, back in 2008, getting fired from there, he's been really kind of careful and fairly successful to kind of calibrate whatever version he is of himself at that moment in such a way that it'll appeal the most to viewers or bosses or anything like that. And I think what's so kind of scary, in a way, about what he's doing right now is he's had very good radar for the past decade or so about where the conservative base is and what they want and where they're headed. And the fact that he has adapted this extreme kind of version of himself with white nationalism, with anti Semitism, that suggests that that's what he thinks he needs to do in order to be successful with conservative viewers and conservative voters. And he's oftentimes been right about that.

[Jane Coaston]

You spoke to someone, Mike Riggs, who was at the Daily Caller with Tucker Carlson, and he said, quote, the thing that Tucker valued most of all was a person's willingness to write something that would make liberals mad. And I'll be thinking about this a lot, because the reason why I think most of the people listening or watching this know about Tucker Carlson's podcast is not because they listened to it, nor did they watch him on Fox News, but we've seen the clips a billion times because they get shared by, like, liberal outlets being like, did you see what Tucker Carlson did? Are we part of the problem? Are progressives and liberals how we got this version of Tucker Carlson.

[Jason Zengerly]

Yes and no. That was a huge phenomenon when he had the Fox show, right? Like, there was this whole, like, economy that, you know, liberal websites, like, they would have reporters whose, like, its job was just to clip Tucker's show each night and put up, you know, the worst stuff on Twitter the next day as kind of rage bait to get engagement. But when he left Fox, I felt like he kind of faded away from view of blue America. Like, people stopped paying attention to him, but red America did not. And so there was this idea that, oh, Tucker's gone and we don't have to worry about him anymore. But he was still churning out his podcast for whatever reason. I'm not sure why. But liberals stopped doing that kind of clip thing. And it really wasn't until the 24 election and Trump winning and Tucker playing such a prominent role in that that he started occupying the mental real state of liberals the same way he did during Trump's first presidency. And I think that the idea behind the book was, like, you can't afford to ignore this guy and you can't afford to dismiss him, and you really need to take him seriously. So I guess the clips that people are showing of his podcast, I mean, maybe that's not the intention. Maybe they're not trying to, like, you know, take him seriously. But I think they do have that impact. They need to know he's there. They need to know that he has a ton of influence on not just this administration, but, you know, just conservative activists outside the administration. I think it's actually probably a good thing.

[Jane Coaston]

What do you think is the driving force at play in all of Tucker's transformations? Like, at the end of the day, what does he want?

[Jason Zengerly]

You know, I think the through line that I was able to kind of find in his career is I think he really did want and continues to want power and stature. He has, I think, a ideological project and a vision for America that I think has come into tighter focus maybe in the past decade. And maybe it's because he's close enough that he can taste it now. He's actually kind of achieved that stature and that power that he's long wanted. And maybe he thinks he can do something with it now. But I think his vision is very similar to Stephen Miller's vision at this point. It's a United States that is a lot more homogenous, a lot whiter. We've returned to traditional gender roles, traditional sexual roles. I think that's something that he wants to achieve.

[Jane Coaston]

Something that's really interesting is that he's not Jesse Watters. He is not a party line guy. He can clearly think for himself. And you give examples of how he will tell people in power when he disagrees with them. Like in the mid-2000s, he admitted to regretting supporting the Iraq war after he visited Baghdad. And he was out ahead of a lot of conservatives who have all gotten on the, oh, I hated the Iraq War from the beginning thing because Trump did. And at the start of the pandemic, you start the book by talking about him trying to get President Trump to take COVID 19 more seriously. How do you attempt to grapple with the complexity of him in that way in which he clearly, he wants power, but he denigrates people who are in power, who he doesn't think should be in power. And he will also kind of go against what the powerful say.

[Jason Zengerly]

Yeah, up to a point. And I think looking at him now and kind of the way he's trying to navigate this, this second Trump administration, I mean, the first Trump presidency, you know, he was famous for kind of, you know, obviously supporting Trump's ideas, such as they were, but not the man himself, necessarily, and, and sort of not buying into the cult of personality in a way that every other Fox host did. And at certain points, you know, criticizing him often from the right. This time around, I think because he doesn't have the built in Fox platform, he's had to attach himself to Trump in a way that he didn't the first time. And I think that's made him a little more gun shy about criticizing Trump and criticizing power. I mean, before the first Iran attack, he obviously know really went to bat hard to try to prevent that. And then when he wasn't able to, it questioned his influence in the administration. I think he doesn't want people thinking he's not influential. So like with the Venezuela operation, he was obviously, you know, speaking out against that before it occurred. But then once it did happen, he really didn't criticize it all that effectively. And I thought that was kind of an interesting moment that he sort of, you know, cooled his jets a little bit and gave it kind of qualified support, because I think he is. He's wary of going too hard at Trump. One, for maybe pissing off Trump. But two, I think he's trying to save face. He wants people to think maybe he has more sway than he does. But that said, I think he really does believe that there is a MAGA ideology. I think guys like him and guys like Steve Bannon, they believe that voters are supporting Trump because they really believe these things about American first or restrictionist immigration policies. And the big question is going to be like, is that what voters care about or do they just like Trump and they'll do whatever Trump says? And I think that'll be a real question to play out over the next few years.

[Jane Coaston]

We're at a weird moment where Donald Trump is president again, in part thanks to Tucker Carlson. But it feels like the MAGA true believers are wavering. You see die hard supporters like former Georgia Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's basically saying MAGA was a sham. And at the same time, Tucker is giving the spotlight to people like anti Semite white supremacist Nick Fuentes, who is on his podcast late last year and who had a very nice conversation. So will he continue being MAGA even without Trump? Where do you see Tucker going from here?

[Jason Zengerly]

I think he will continue being MAGA without Trump. I guess the question is, will MAGA continue being MAGA without Trump? And I think, you know, I think the Fuentes thing was kind of a fascinating example because, look, Fuentes is like more critical of Trump than anyone, right? Like Fuentes is, you know, he's like, this guy's not really one of us. He's in over his head. And I think Tucker was in this feud with Fuentes where, you know, he called him a fed and he said he was gay. And then Fuentes, you know, fired back and called Tucker a fed and said he was a poser. And. And Tucker was losing that fight.

[Jane Coaston]

Normal adult behavior.

[Jason Zengerly]

Yeah, normal adult behavior. Normal like far right influencer behavior. But, you know, he was losing that fight. And I think he had Fuentes on his show as a, as an olive branch because he, he thinks that to be successful in conservative media. In conservative politics these days, you can't afford to alienate the neo Nazis. And I think oftentimes the neo Nazis, the Fuentes of the world, are just as critical of Trump as Marjorie Taylor Greene at this point. I mean, it's a different critique, but they have not drank the Kool Aid about Trump. They liked him for a while and they thought he was useful for their purposes, but they don't think he's a true believer. And I feel like Tucker is heading towards similar territory. I mean, he has to be careful because he does want to maintain his influence in this administration, but at the same time he doesn't want to lose that audience that is getting fed up with Trump. So I think that's probably one of the things that's running through his mind right now.

[Jane Coaston]

Jason, thank you so much for joining me.

[Jason Zengerly]

Oh, thanks a lot for having me. This was a lot of fun.

[Jane Coaston]

That was my conversation with Jason Zengerly, author of the new book Hated by All the Right People, Tucker Carlson and the Unraveling of the Conservative Mind. We'll link to it in the show notes. We've got more news coming up, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe and leave a five star review wherever you listen. And for those of you who have always wondered if our faces match our voices, watch us on YouTube and don't forget to share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a Day is brought to you by Zebiotics. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is, until I found pre alcohol Zebiotics. Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on hitting my long run or my workout without worrying. Ready to try it? Go to zbiotics.com wadnow you'll get 15% off your first order when you use WAD at checkout. Plus it's backed by a 100% money backed guarantee so there's no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. Remember to head to zbiotics.com wad and use the code WAD at checkout for 15% off. Wadaday is brought to you by Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, it's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. Having your address, phone number and family members names hanging out on the Internet can have actual consequences in the real world and makes everyone vulnerable. More and more online partisans and nefarious actors will find this data and use it to target political rivals, civil servants, and even outspoken citizens posting their opinions online. With Deleteme, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy of your business from doxxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. I know how scary it can be to have your personal information exposed online, and I'm relieved that DeleteMe is working 247365 to keep me and my data safe. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com wad and use promo code WAD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com WAD and enter code WAD at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com WAD code WAD let's do.

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[Jane Coaston]

Here'S what else we're following today.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Head of Lines.

[Jason Zengerly]

We just had an important and historic vote on the House floor, a series of votes today in fact, and we delivered for the American people. For some reason, many of the House Democrats wanted to shut the government down again and inflict pain on the American people. But I'm glad to tell you, I'm happy to report Republicans got the job done.

[Jane Coaston]

The House narrowly passed a roughly $1.2 trillion spending bill Tuesday to end the partial government shutdown. 21 Democrats voted with 196 Republicans to pass the bill, as most Democrats opposed it over the Minneapolis shootings by federal immigration officers. And notably, 21 Republicans broke with GOP leadership and voted against the bill. That's quite a visible fracture in the Republican ranks, despite Trump's calls for unity. Trump signed the bill into law Tuesday, funding the majority of the government. So what's left to fund the Department of Homeland Security. The bill only includes a short term funding patch for the agency through February 13th. Until then, Democrats and Republicans will debate potential changes to the department's immigration enforcement policies. We hope that our family can be even a small example to others not to let political ideals divide us to be good like Renee. But the most important thing we can do today is to help this panel and our country understand who nay is and what a beautiful American we have lost. On Tuesday, Democratic members of the House and Senate heard from Luke Granger, the brother of Renee Goode. Goode was killed by a federal immigration officer in Minneapolis last month. Her brother Brent also spoke. Both appeared alongside other US Citizens who say DHS agents assaulted, injured or shot them. As Congress debates changes to immigration operations, Luke Granger said he's in, quote, deep distress and disbelief, adding he hoped Good's death would change how immigration agents operate. But so far it hasn't. Brent Granger read a section of his eulogy for his late sister to lawmakers.

[Jason Zengerly]

She believed in second chances.

[Jane Coaston]

She believed tomorrow could be better than today.

[Jason Zengerly]

She believed that kindness mattered. And she lived that belief even when things were hard. Ney looked for the light, and if she couldn't find it, she became the light for somebody else.

[Jane Coaston]

New York Democratic Attorney General Letitia James announced plans Tuesday to keep eyes on federal immigration enforcement in the state through the Legal Observation Project, the attorney general's office said it will, quote, collect reports of enforcement actions throughout New York and send trained personnel to observe and document that activity where appropriate, as well as any related protests as they occur. The press release makes it clear that the legal observers will only document federal conduct and will not interfere with operations. The observers will also wear purple safety vests to make sure they're easily identifiable, Department of Homeland security spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin said in a statement to the New York Times. ICE law enforcement wouldn't have to be in the field in New York if we had state and local cooperation. AG James said in a statement that the project is meant to ensure that federal enforcement activities in New York are lawful, noting, quote, we have seen in Minnesota how quickly and tragically federal operations can escalate in the absence of transparency and accountability. A US Fighter jet shot down an Iranian drone on Tuesday, which shockingly, did little to de escalate tensions between the two countries. According to US Central Command, the drone flew too close to a US Aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea, the US Military said. Following the attack, the Iranian military harassed US Merchant ships in the area. The US And Iran have clashed recently after the Iranian government spent weeks violently quelling domestic protests challenging the Islamic Republic. Thousands of Iranians were killed. The Iranian government denies responsibility for the killings. That prompted President Trump to promise Iranian citizens that he rescue them, which then turned into a pressure campaign on the Iranian government to negotiate its nuclear program. This is, of course, the same nuclear program Trump claimed was, quote, completely and totally obliterated after he bombed underground nuclear sites last June. I'm starting to think Trump didn't go full east wing of the White House on Iran's nuclear program after all. And that's the news. One more thing. As you know by now, the Department of justice released nearly 3 million pages of documents related to its investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein on Friday. And there was a lot there. First and probably foremost, there were a lot more than 5,300 mentions, according to the New York Times, of President Donald Trump. I want to note here that President Trump has denied any wrongdoing involving Epstein, and there's no real evidence, even in these files otherwise. The DOJ dump contained a ton of material, a lot of FBI tips that were unvetted and unsubstantiated. But on Tuesday, Trump lost his shit on CNN's Kaitlan Collins when she asked a simple question about the survivors of Epstein's abuse in the middle of his Oval Office victory lap.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Now that nothing came out about me other than there was a conspiracy against me, literally by Epstein and other people. But I think it's time now for the country to maybe get onto Something else, Mr. President, something that people care about. You know, what. What do you say?

[Jane Coaston]

What would you.

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What would you say to the survivors?

[Kaitlan Collins]

You are the worst reporter no one to see. CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face. You know why? You know why? You're not surprised smiling because you know you're not telling the truth.

[Jane Coaston]

Two things Collins was discussing the survivors of sexual abuse, and that man has the nuclear codes. It's easy to just focus on Trump and Epstein because, well, it just is. But the DOJ release contains emails between Epstein and figures from across the worlds of politics, culture, and commerce, because lots and lots of people had a whole lot to do with Jeffrey Epstein, it seems. Tech people like Elon Musk, who tweeted last September that he, quote, refused in all caps to go to Epstein's island. But the emails appear to show he really, really wanted to visit. In one message released by the DOJ From November of 2012, Musk wrote, quote, what day, night will be the wildest party on your island? Or like Treasury Secretary Howard Lutnick, who said on a podcast last year that he cut ties with Epstein in the mid-2000s because he never wanted to see that, quote, disgusting person ever again. But according to a series of emails released by the doj, Lutnick and his wife and children visited Epstein in the Caribbean in 2012 and were exchanging friendly email females as late as 2018. That's actually what's so striking about the Epstein saga, its depth and breadth. Epstein's sexual abuse of young women and girls was wielded by Trump and MAGA as a political cudgel against Democrats. And already you're seeing the Trump administration try to back away from the story. But looking at the thousands of emails shared by the Department of Justice, Epstein had friends across the political spectrum, all apparently willing to overlook the fact that by the time many of them were exchanging messages, Epstein had already been imprisoned for soliciting prostitution of a minor in 2008. The minds behind Microsoft and Google, some of the biggest names in economics, European royals, all friendly with a man who would die in jail awaiting charges of trafficking minors for sex. Like, really friendly. I can't stop thinking about one particular figure whose emails were on the DOJ. Files so called longevity influencer Dr. Peter Attia. He's a well known health author and podcaster, one of those talking heads you may have seen on Instagram or TikTok if you're the kind of person who counts your macros and knows what Zone two training is. He was even just hired as a contributor to CBS News. But according to his emails with Epstein, he was absolutely enamored with the convicted sex offender. He wrote in an email from 2015 in response to a photo Epstein sent that has been redacted, that the hardest part of being friends with him, a convicted sex offender, was that quote, the life you lead is so outrageous and yet I can't tell a soul. And in a 2016 email to Epstein's assistant, Attia said that he would go into quote je withdrawal when I don't see him. Epstein was very rich, but so were the people he was emailing with and inviting to his island. He was well connected, but so were the people he was emailing. So what did Epstein have that they could have possibly wanted? According to Friday's emails, access to young women and girls. Before we go this year's Grammys were arguably the best in a very long time. And yes, Crooked's pop culture expert Louis Virtel has thoughts on Keep It. He and guest host Nina Parker break down the night's biggest moments, the messiest performances, and the outfits we'll be arguing about all week. Plus, Paula Pell joins to talk about her new show, the Burbs. New episodes every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, make less news, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading, I'm not just about how I think we've had too much news lately and honestly, I'm good for the week on news as a concept. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Costernen. Just don't make any news. Stay home, make soup. Watch a movie. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Tutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Ethan Oberman, Greg Walters, and Matt Burke. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Kanter. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east.

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