The Redistricting Game

Summary

What A Day – "The Redistricting Game"

Host: Jane Coston
Guests: John Bisignano (President, National Democratic Redistricting Committee), Lisa Phillips (Epstein survivor advocate)
Date: October 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the escalating battle over congressional redistricting ahead of the 2026 midterm elections, spotlighting recent maneuvers by both parties to redraw electoral maps and the legal/litigation skirmishes unfolding nationwide. The show also covers major political headlines (SNAP benefits, National Guard mobilization, immigration mishaps, Fed rate cut) and features a poignant segment with a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse.

The core focus: how a practice that’s usually technical and subdued—redistricting—is morphing into a high-stakes, highly politicized fight with national ramifications as both parties respond to new pressures and unprecedented tactics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redistricting as Political Battlefront

[00:50] - [04:59]

• Why Redistricting is in the Spotlight:
  Redistricting is traditionally a once-a-decade, census-driven process, but is now a fierce, national issue because “Donald Trump is two things. One, he has consolidated a great deal of power within the Republican Party... And two, he has made himself acknowledge publicly that he cannot win this election fairly in 2026.” – John Bisignano [03:06]

• Trump's Pressure on Republican States:
  After his call to Texas Gov. Abbott, several Republican states have begun drawing new congressional maps outside the normal cycle, prompted by fears over losing House control.

• The Current House Balance:
  Republicans hold the House by just three seats, but this narrow margin is vulnerable:
  “Over the past two congressional election cycles, it's important to remember that we've had the most representative maps, arguably in this country's history... Republicans won those two congressional cycles. I acknowledge that.” – John Bisignano [03:54]

2. Specific States’ Moves and What’s at Stake

[05:14] - [06:53]

• Active Redistricting States:
  So far, Texas, Missouri, and North Carolina (all GOP-led) have already redrawn maps to shift seats away from Democrats, targeting up to seven districts (mostly held by people of color).

  • “Texas took probably five seats, or at least by their own estimation. Missouri took one, North Carolina took one. And I'll add six out of the seven individuals that were drawn out of their seats were people of color.” – John Bisignano [05:14]

• Other Republican States "on the Fence":
  Indiana, Kansas, Nebraska, and even New Hampshire (despite evident reluctance from state leadership, especially NH's governor, who is being pressured by threats of a primary from the Trump-aligned White House).

  • “Most folks in most states have no interest in doing this... and yet we found ourselves in a place where they all acquiesced to Donald Trump's pressure...” – John Bisignano [06:20]

3. Litigation and Court Battles

[06:53] - [07:47]

• Legal Counteroffensives:
  Ongoing and pending lawsuits challenge these rapid-fire redistricting efforts on constitutional and statutory grounds:
  “There is litigation in all these states... trying to claw back some of these maps from what Republicans have done is an equally valuable part of the equation...” – John Bisignano [07:06]

4. Democratic Counter-Moves: “Fighting Fire with Fire”

[07:47] - [08:50]

• Blue-State Redistricting:
  Democratic states (notably California under Gov. Newsom) are racing to redraw their own maps via ballot measure (Prop 50) to offset GOP gains.

  • “When Texas got serious... [California] started moving forward with a bill... to allow the people in California to decide whether they wanted to fight back against Trump's Texas gerrymander... I feel very positively or optimistic about the path forward in getting five seats out of California, which would offset what Texas has done.” – John Bisignano [07:58]

• Other Blue States Considering Similar Moves:
  Maryland and Illinois are also exploring new maps to “bring us back to that level of fair and representative democracy.”

5. Broader Implications & The Future of Democratic Participation

[09:01] - [10:37]

• Manipulating Democracy Preemptively:
  Both parties now seek to “pre-shape the electorate” before anyone votes, making elections less competitive or fair.

  • “They are trying to take this moment in time and draw the Americans [sic] people voice out of the equation... I'm not sure we've ever seen a White House this comfortable with the reality that they can't win without cheating.” – John Bisignano [09:20]

• Resources Diverted from Policy:
  “They could be... using (their time) to try and lower the cost of drug prices or, you know, lower the cost of groceries.... But this White House doesn't care about that. ...what they're really trying to do is cheat to hold on to power as long as possible.” – John Bisignano [10:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jane Coston’s Opener Connecting Sports and Politics:
  “College football is politics and politics is College Football. Exhibit 1215.” [00:02]

• On Democratic Strategies:
  “Some Democrats are fighting fire with fire and working to draw new congressional maps of their own.” [07:47]

• On the Reluctance of State Officials:
  “[New Hampshire’s] governor has no interest in doing this at all.” – Jane Coston [06:15]

• On Danger to Democracy:
  “Trying to use the year before an election even takes place to reshape or pre-shape the exact look of the map and the electorate and... draw the Americans people voice out of the equation.” – John Bisignano [09:20]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Redistricting Explained & Trump’s Role:
  [03:06]–[04:46]

• State-by-State Map Manipulation Details:
  [05:14]–[06:53]

• Litigation Against New Maps:
  [07:06]–[07:47]

• Democratic Pushback Strategies:
  [07:47]–[08:50]

• Long-term Threats to Electoral Integrity:
  [09:01]–[10:37]

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Additional Major News Headlines (Brief Summary)

SNAP Benefits at Risk

[13:16]–[13:42]
Senate Majority Leader John Thune defends his party's actions blocking SNAP funding, even as millions face the loss of food assistance during the shutdown. Hypocrisy noted by host.

National Guard Mobilization

[14:25]–[15:38]
Pentagon orders all states to deploy “quick reaction” riot control forces, echoing memories of Vietnam-era military crackdowns on domestic protest.

Federal Reserve Rate Cut

[16:01]–[16:38]
Chair Jerome Powell lowers interest rates a quarter-point, citing mixed economic signals due to the government shutdown.

Immigration and Judicial Defiance

[16:38]–[18:56]
ICE deports an Alabama man to Laos in direct defiance of a federal court order, raising legal alarms.

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Extended Segment: Survivor Lisa Phillips on Epstein

[18:56]–[24:58]

• Personal Story:
  Lisa recounts being lured to Jeffrey Epstein’s island under false pretenses as a young model, details the abuse, and reflects on her delayed decision to go public.

• Barriers to Speaking Out:
  Fear of Epstein’s power and powerful associates kept her silent until after his death.

  • “I would never have spoken out if Jeffrey was alive... Some of the girls... were underage and it was the exact same M.O.” – Lisa Phillips [22:37]

• On Epstein’s Network and “Birthday Book”:
  “That birthday book was the best representation of the people around him.” [23:56]

• Message to Survivors:
  “Don’t be ashamed of what happened to you... You have the power to own it and move on from it... There is light at the end of the tunnel.” [24:14]

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Episode Closing Notes

• Jane Coston’s Commitment:
  Promises continued coverage on Congressional action regarding Epstein investigations and other major stories.

• Related Podcasts Promo:
  Assembly Required (Stacey Abrams and Erica Chenoweth on protest movements).

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Summary Table: Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | Key Focus | |----------------------------------|--------------|----------------------------------------------| | Redistricting’s Rise & Stakes | 03:06–04:46 | Trump’s pressure, why 2026 matters | | GOP State Map Changes | 05:14–06:53 | Texas, Missouri, NC, people of color | | Litigation Strategy | 07:06–07:47 | Courts and ongoing legal challenges | | Democratic Counteractions | 07:47–08:50 | CA Prop 50, other blue states | | “Pre-shaping” Democracy | 09:01–10:37 | Cheating accusations, broader implications | | Headlines | 13:16–18:56 | SNAP, National Guard, Fed, ICE/Deportation | | Lisa Phillips’ Story | 18:56–24:58 | Epstein survivor narrative |

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Overall Tone & Style

• Direct, urgent, often wry; Jane Coston maintains a brisk pace, using sharp, pointed commentary intermixed with substantive reporting and empathy for vulnerable guests.
• The episode critiques political hypocrisy and self-serving maneuvers from both parties, while foregrounding the stakes for ordinary Americans.

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TL;DR

This episode of What A Day delivers a sharp, detailed look at the new arms race in congressional redistricting, exploring partisan maneuvering, racial dynamics, legal battles, and the impact on democracy. Counterpointed by a powerful personal account from an Epstein survivor, the episode skillfully blends political analysis, legal context, and human stories.

Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Thursday, October 30th. I'm Jane Coston, and this is what a Day. The show that's here to remind you that college football is politics and politics is College Football. Exhibit1215. Here's Louisiana Republican Governor Jeff Landry, who is very, very, very upset at recently fired LSU head football coach Brian Kelly, explaining a fun idea as to who should pick as replacement on Wednesday.

[Jeff Landry]

And you know what I believe? I believe that we're going to find a great coach. Maybe we'll let President Trump pick it. He loves. You know, I'm not gonna be picking the next coach, but I can promise you we're gonna pick a coach and we're gonna make sure that that coach is successful and we're gonna make sure that he's compensated properly, and we're gonna put metrics on it because I'm tired of rewarding failure in this country based.

[Jane Coston]

On President Donald Trump's prior work in the sport of football. Governor Landry, I don't think you want him involved here unless you want to.

[Legal Analyst/Host of Strict Scrutiny]

Be.

[Jane Coston]

On today's show. Congress continues to prove pointless as funding for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits is on the verge of expiring for millions of Americans. And immigration officials deport a man living in Alabama to Laos despite literally being ordered not to. But let's start with the hottest topic everyone is talking about, right Congressional redistricting. A Virginia judge allowed the state's Democrats to pursue a redistricting plan on Wednesday that would permit them to amend the state's constitution. It allows Virginia's congressional districts to be redrawn before next year's midterm elections, despite a lawsuit from Virginia Republicans. Those Democrats are following a national trend kicked off by Trump. Back in August, Trump called on the state of Texas to redraw its congressional maps ahead of the 2026 midterms in order to minimize Republican losses in the House. After Texas redrew its maps, California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom responded by putting forward a plan to redistrict his state through a ballot measure, Proposition 50, that would redraw California's congressional districts and push five Republicans out of their seats. The message Prop 50 backers want voters to hear this vote is a way to stop Trump. Here's a Prop 50 ad starring new York Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

California, you know we don't back down from a fight. And this November, the fight belongs to you. Donald Trump is redrawing election maps to force through a Congress that only answers to him, not the people if he gets away with it all, all bets are off for our health care, our paychecks, and our freedoms.

[Jane Coston]

And the wave of redistricting just keeps growing. So to explain the fight and how the 2026 midterms became a battle royale, I spoke to John Bisignano. He's the president of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee. John, welcome to. What a day.

[John Bisignano]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coston]

So, typically, congressional districts get redrawn every 10 years based on new numbers from the census, and it's very, very boring. So how did we get here? Why are we all talking about redistricting now in 2025?

[John Bisignano]

Because Donald Trump is two things. One, he has consolidated a great deal of power within the Republican Party, which we all appreciate. And two, he has made himself acknowledge publicly that he cannot win this election fairly in 2026. Right through all of his bills and the public posture, as his approval ranking tanks, he realizes and is comfortable being public with the reality that he needs to cheat. So he picked up the phone, called Governor Greg Abbott, and said, texas, you need to gerrymander as much as you possibly can because we do not have the votes to hold the house come 2026 if you don't.

[Jane Coston]

And so there are a lot of moving parts to this. But before we get into the nitty gritty, where does the House of Representatives currently stand? How many seats does each party have?

[John Bisignano]

Well, right now, there's a majority in the House held by the Republican Party by three seats. There are vacancies consist throughout the cycle. But the reality, I think, is over the past two congressional election cycles, it's important to remember that we've had the most representative maps, arguably in this country's history. And I say that as a Democrat and Republicans won those two congressional cycles. I acknowledge that. Now, the thing that changed in the past few months is the call that I referred to earlier where Donald Trump called Greg Abbott and said, you need to redraw and you need to steal five seats out of Texas and pull us out of this paradig where we are on a reasonable playing field, where both parties have the ability to win, to compete for the House of Representatives and pull us back to a time of 2012, 2014, where it's really difficult for both parties to compete.

[Jane Coston]

And typically, in midterm elections, the president's party loses seats in Congress. This was less true in 2022, but extremely true, if you recall, 2014, or, more optimistically, 2018.

[John Bisignano]

That's right.

[Jane Coston]

So Democrats could very realistically win back the House next year, which is why Trump is doing this. Can you walk us through the Republican states that are working to redraw their maps ahead of the 20, 26 midterms? How many seats are realistically under threat here?

[John Bisignano]

Yeah, I mean, anything between 0 and 20. But what we currently sit at. Right. I just want people to remember current moment right now as we sit here. Three states have redrawn their maps, and that's Texas, Missouri, and North Carolina, all Republican states redrawing to gerrymander away Democratic seats. Texas took probably five seats, or at least by their own estimation. Missouri took one, North Carolina took one. And I'll add six. Out of the seven individuals that were drawn out of their seats were people of color. They're also trying to discredit and pull back as many seats of color as possible. So it's not just about political party. It's also a racial issue.

[Jane Coston]

What other states are angling to redraw their maps because of pressure from the White House?

[John Bisignano]

Yeah, so right now we're hearing consistent rumors from places like Indiana, Kansas, Nebraska, even some in New Hampshire, where folks in the White House had threatened to primary the governor if she didn't yield to the will of Donald Trump.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah, I was very interested in the New Hampshire situation because their governor has no interest in doing this at all.

[John Bisignano]

Yeah, seemingly, most folks in most states have no interest in doing this. And, you know, I had been talking to people in Texas all year, starting in January, acknowledging that they could redraw at any time. I know that that's true. No one in Texas, both Republicans and Democrats, seemingly wanted to do this at all. And yet we found ourselves in a place where they all acquiesced to Donald Trump's pressure, and seemingly a map was drawn and sent to the governor of Texas. So this was, like, completely concocted in Washington, sent to Texas for execution, where it landed.

[Jane Coston]

Another thing that we're hearing a lot about or that I've been reading about, is the ways in which this is all ending up in our favorite place, the American court system. So what. What's the litigation strategy over these seats and over these maps?

[John Bisignano]

Yeah, I think it's such a critical reality to remember that there is litigation in all these states and most of the states, and the actions these folks are taking is by some measure illegal. So whether it be a state constitutional issue or a federal constitutional issue or a federal statutory issue that are being broken by redrawing these maps, our organization, the National Redistricting foundation, is already in court in Texas, in Missouri, will likely be in court in many of the other states that I referenced over the course of this episode. Because trying to claw back some of these maps from what Republicans have done is an equally valuable part of the equation and trying to understand what it's going to look like in 2026.

[Jane Coston]

This year, we're also seeing something that isn't historically common. Some Democrats are fighting fire with fire and working to draw new congressional maps of their own. So how many states led by Democrats are pushing back?

[John Bisignano]

Obviously, California is the most notable and quickest to move. California Governor Newsom picked up a platform nearly immediately when Texas got serious about what they were going to do and started moving forward with a bill to move it to the people and allow the people in California to decide whether they wanted to fight back against Trump's Texas gerrymander. You know, we've seen consistent in polling that's positively inclined. I'm a superstitious person that won't say. I know that we're going to win this election on November 4th on Prop 50 in California. But I feel hopeful and I feel very positively or optimistic about the path forward in getting five seats out of California, which would offset what Texas has done. You're hearing rumors out of Maryland, in Illinois, places that are trying to take action to bring us back to that level of fair and representative democracy that I was talking about earlier.

[Jane Coston]

Now, regardless of how the districts may or may not change ahead of the 2026 midterms. And let me just say it's kind of insane that all of this is happening for a midterm election.

[John Bisignano]

Deeply.

[Jane Coston]

Like, I just keep thinking about how midterms typically only draw voters who are the most committed in the first place. But overall, what does all of this mean for the future of American elections? Especially as so much of this seems to be about eliminating the seats held by the political opposition of a given state.

[John Bisignano]

Yeah. And trying to use the year before an election even takes place to reshape or pre shape the exact look of the map and the electorate and what it's going to look like. I mean, some people are making guesses when they draw these maps. They don't know exactly what the electorate's going to look like. But the truth is they are trying to take this moment in time and draw the Americans people voice out of the equation. Right. They don't want people to be able to really have a choice. Choice. And so I think we need to do everything in our power to continue to fight back. The other paradigm that's so bizarre is I'm not sure we've ever seen a White House this comfortable with the reality that they can't win without cheating. And so much so that they're spending all of this time, right, like they're having J.D. vance basically use the Indianapolis Airport as a hub for Air Force Two, right? This guy has been flying in and out of Indianapolis trying to twist state senators arms to get them to redraw maps in Indy. It doesn't make any sense. They could be taking this time, this valuable presidential time and using it to try and lower the cost of drug prices or, you know, lower the cost of groceries, things that people know that they need. But this White House doesn't care about that. And they know that they've already lost that. And so what they're really trying to do is cheat to hold on to power as long as possible.

[Jane Coston]

John, thank you so much for joining me.

[John Bisignano]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with John Bisignano, President of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some Ads what a Day is brought to you by Nutrafol. You've probably seen a million ads for hair growth products and thought, sure, like that actually works. But Nutrafol isn't like the rest of them. Nutrafol is physician formulated, clinically tested and dermatologist recommended. Nutrafol is actually the one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. And it's the first and only hair growth supplement to be NSF certified for sport testing against 290 plus athletic banned substances, toxicology reviews, ingredient testing, label verification and annual manufacturing facility audits to ensure FDA requirements are met. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and use a promo code day, find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r-a dash f o l.com promo code day. That's Nutrafol.com promo code day.

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[Jane Coston]

Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines.

[John Thune]

SNAP recipients shouldn't go without food. People should be getting paid in this country, and we've tried to do that 13 times and you voted no 13 times.

[Jeff Landry]

This isn't a political game.

[John Thune]

These are real people's lives that we're talking about.

[Jane Coston]

That was Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune getting very worked up on the Senate floor Wednesday over a problem that he helped create. Unless Congress acts soon, funding for SNAP benefits will expire on Friday. Ironically, Thune made those comments while blocking a Democratic bill to continue funding SNAP during the shutdown. The majority leader also called the bill a, quote, cynical attempt to buy political cover by the Democrats. But his finger pointing doesn't explain why he's also opposed to a similar bill to fund SNAP from Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley. And even though President Trump told reporters this week, we're going to get it done, when asked about SNAP benefits running out, Boone later clarified that the president meant once the government is reopened, SNAP will get funded. In other words, they're probably not going to get it done. Meanwhile, a silver lining for federal workers amid this mess of a shutdown, a federal judge in San Francisco indefinitely blocks the Trump administration from firing federal employees while the government remains closed. Her ruling indicates that the labor union suing the federal government will eventually win on the grounds that the firings were arbitrary and politically motivated. And somehow the judge was not convinced by Assistant US Attorney Michael Valcyk arguing in court that Americans elected Trump because he's, quote, someone known above all else for his eloquence in communicating to employees that you're fired. That's exactly the type of compassion we can depend on from this administration. The Pentagon has ordered every state National Guard to form new quick reaction forces trained in riot control, according to an internal directive obtained by the Guardian. The memo, signed Oct. 8, directs states to train about 500 Guard members each, roughly 23,500 troops in total, in tactics including the use of batons, body shields, Tasers and pepper spray. Military trainers will deploy to all 50 states and even US territories where paradise is apparently lost, like Guam and the US Virgin Islands. The goal is to make these units operational by January 1, 2026, military experts told the Guardian. The Trump administration's plan echoes a darker chapter of U.S. history when national Guard troops were routinely sent to put down protests, most infamously during the 1970 Kent State shooting where four unarmed students were killed by the Ohio Guard. Apparently when Trump says he wants to make America great again, this is the again he's talking about.

[John Thune]

In support of our goals and in light of the balance of risks to employment and inflation today the Federal Open Market Committee decided to lower our policy interest rate by a quarter percentage point.

[Jane Coston]

Absolutely riveting. Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell announced the rate cut Wednesday despite the delay of some federal government data thanks to the shutdown.

[John Thune]

But the public and private sector data that have remained available suggest that the outlook for employment and inflation has not changed much since our meeting in September. Conditions in the labor market appear to be gradually cooling and inflation remains somewhat elevated.

[Jane Coston]

It's the second cut this year as the central bank looks to bolster economic growth and hiring. The Fed has a tricky job at the moment. It's reducing borrowing costs to support the job market while still keeping rates high enough to avoid overstimulating the economy and making inflation worse. Powell also warned that further rate cuts at the Fed's next meeting in December were not a guarantee due to the limited data and differing opinions between Fed officials. Immigration officials deported an Alabama father to Laos even though, wait for it, a federal court had ordered a halt to his removal after his lawyers argued his valid claim to U.S. citizenship. A district judge ordered Immigration and Customs Enforcement to keep the 44 year old man in the United States while he presented what the judge called his, quote, substantial claim of U.S. citizenship. He was born in a refugee camp in Thailand but was granted lawful permanent residence in the US before his first birthday, according to court filings. ICE took the man into custody back in June following an annual check in with immigration authorities in Alabama, where he lived with his wife and children, the executive director for the ACLU of Louisiana said in a statement this administration has shown it will ignore the courts, ignore the Constitution, and ignore the law to pursue its mass deportation agenda, even if it means destroying the lives of American citizens. And that's the news. One more thing. We've talked a lot about Jeffrey Epstein on this show over the past few months as the fight over getting more information about his crimes, his collaborators and who knew what about his offenses against young women and girls. We've talked about Trump administration officials who spent Most of the 2024 campaign talking about Epstein's criminality and how they get to the bottom of it, going silent once in office. But one thing we haven't done on the show is talk about the survivors of Epstein's sexual abuse, or more importantly, talk to them. And that's the story I want to bring you today. I recently spoke with Lisa Phillips. In our conversation, she shared how she was first introduced to Jeffrey Epstein and the first time he allegedly assaulted her.

[Lisa Phillips]

So I was a young fashion model in New York City, living the dream, had worked really hard to get there and got this wonderful booking through my model agency at the time with another model. And we flew with the whole crew down to Tortola in the British West Indies. And the other model was a young Polish girl, smart and beautiful. And we had a free extra day where she was just like, you know, I have a friend who owns an island nearby. His name's Jeffrey. He's a really great guy. He helped me get my visa to work in the US So she was just like, I'd love for you to come with me and go to his island to spend the day there. Like, why should we stay here?

[Jane Coston]

Right?

[Lisa Phillips]

I didn't really think that much of it. I was in my early 20s in Sochi, and so we went over to the island. We hung out by the pool. And then after that, we had a really beautiful dinner. And that's where I met Jeffrey. And, you know, as a young girl, most men are attracted to, you ask the same stupid questions. But he was, like, very intentional with his questions. And he asked, like, where I lived, where I grew up, my relationship with my father and my family members, and just made you have that emotional feeling, like, yeah, you know, great family, but, you know, Dad's not really around, never really calls me kind of thing. So I was probably pretty telling.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah.

[Lisa Phillips]

And I liked him. I just had never been around a person like that before. So I went to the room where we were going to stay that night. We were leaving in the morning, which I didn't know that was going to be the plan, but that's what they had organized for us. And so we were in our PJs, getting ready to go to sleep and there was a knock at the door by one of the other young girls that was there. And she said, oh, Jeffrey's ready for his massage. That's when everything went a little off.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah.

[Lisa Phillips]

And then I looked at the other Polish model and said like, what's going on? Like, what massage? And she's like, well, we kind of just have to do it, you know, let's just go and just get it over with. And I'm like, okay, well, just a massage with some older guy. He didn't seem so bad. So I just followed her into his room. There was a massage table. So we started to do this massage on this guy and he was a little more like flirty, asking questions about boyfriends and things like that. And he, well, he assaulted me.

[Jane Coston]

Like many survivors of sexual abuse, Lisa didn't go public. Instead, she returned to New York after the incident with a lot of shame. She tried to forget what happened and didn't talk to Epstein for a while, even though he contacted her repeatedly. She said ultimately they reconnected for a few years after he introduced her to modeling contacts to help further her career.

[Lisa Phillips]

I didn't start speaking out until 2019 till he died. And that was the first time where I started paying more attention because I had an emotional reaction to it. You know, this was kind of a mentor person I thought was good for me who really wasn't so. And I didn't speak about that type of abuse that was going on the entire time.

[Jane Coston]

Were you also concerned because you mentioned that there were a lot of powerful people that were so close to Epstein and a lot of those powerful people would have so much influence over your career, over what you would get to do in the future. Was that something that held you back a little bit?

[Lisa Phillips]

Of course. Of course it did.

[Jane Coston]

The only.

[Lisa Phillips]

I would have never spoken out if Jeffrey was alive, I would never have spoken out on my own. I really did it because some of the girls that spoke out were underage and it was the exact same M.O. that they that he did with the 14 to 17 year old girls in Florida as the 18 to 24 year old girls in New York City. So naively I just wanted to speak out and support them. I had no idea it was going to turn into, you know, six years of this and end up in Congress.

[Jane Coston]

I asked Lisa about the so called birthday book released by the House Oversight Committee which was prepared for Epstein for his 50th birthday in 2003 and included a hand drawn note allegedly from President Donald Trump. Trump denied that he wrote and signed the letter.

[Lisa Phillips]

It was very telling. Wasn't. Was triggering for me and a lot of the survivors that I've talked to because it just shows the perverse world of Jeffrey Epstein and the people involved. It was like, wow, finally you get to see a look into how they all thought, how they all talked. That was Jeffrey. That is exactly how he used to speak about his life and his little cheesy little grin about what he loved in life was really sex.

[Jane Coston]

Right.

[Lisa Phillips]

Even the P word, he would say, like, that's what life is about.

[Jane Coston]

Yeah.

[Lisa Phillips]

So that birthday book was the best representation of the people around him.

[Jane Coston]

Lisa has become a vocal advocate for survivors of sexual assault and abuse, including speaking out about Epstein on Capitol Hill. I wanted to know what she'd say to people listening with their own stories of survival.

[Lisa Phillips]

Thank you for asking that. The most important thing for me to tell of survivors is don't be ashamed of what happened to you. I dealt with that for 15 years. Unfortunately, it happens to a lot of us. Maybe not to the degree of, with Epstein or.

[Jane Coston]

Right.

[Lisa Phillips]

But some of us have narcissistic ex husbands. I mean, there's so many different levels of abuse. Don't be ashamed of what you. What happened to you and that you have the power to own it and to move on from it. I just want you to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. And look at me. Look at what happened to me. And I'm out here speaking about it and owning it and healing from it and that you can too.

[Jane Coston]

Thank you to Lisa and to all survivors for sharing your stories. And when Congress returns, you can be sure we will be covering the potential release of more information about Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. Before we go, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Once said, there is power in unity and there is power in numbers. Turns out the numbers back him up. Just 3.5% of people can change everything. This week on Assembly Required, Stacey Abrams talks with the professor behind that theory, political scientist Erica Chenoweth, about how protests paired with strikes, boycotts and mutual aid can shift the course of history. Listen to Assembly Required wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate the dropping of charges against a man who made a Trump meme and got arrested for it, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading. I'm not just about Larry Buschaert, a 61 year old man who has been in jail for the past month for posting a meme that quoted Trump's statements after a school shooting. A meme the sheriff admitted to a local news channel was not a threat to do literally anything to anyone like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston and I'm so glad that free speech was the victor over those nanny state snowflakes. Finally, comedy is legal again. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Sean Ali, Gina Pollack and Kaitlyn Plummer. Our senior our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. We get help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. East.

[Legal Analyst/Host of Strict Scrutiny]

This Supreme Court term kicks off with no shortage of chaos on the docket. In October alone, the justices will weigh whether cops can break into your home without a warrant, whether bans on conversion therapy for LGBTQ kids count as censorship, and whether states can gerrymander or must gerrymander majority black districts. It's a term packed with questions that cut to the heart of free speech, voting rights and the power of the police. And on strict scrutiny, the we're here to cut through the noise with a carefully honed balance of legal expertise and plenty of smack talk. New episodes drop every Monday. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.