The U.S. Takes Aim At Venezuela

Summary

What A Day — "The U.S. Takes Aim At Venezuela"

Host: Jane Coaston, Crooked Media
Guest: Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, former White House National Security Council senior director for the Western Hemisphere under President Joe Biden
Date: November 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the Trump administration’s escalating posture toward Venezuela, the potential for American military intervention, and the intertwined motivations of domestic politics and immigration control. Host Jane Coaston speaks with Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, an expert on Latin American affairs, to unpack the nuances behind recent US military moves, the talk of regime change, and the broader implications for US policy, Venezuelan stability, and the rights of Americans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Military Escalation Around Venezuela

• Aircraft Carrier Deployment
  • The USS Gerald Ford, the world's largest aircraft carrier, entered the Caribbean, signaling a shift from symbolic presence to a credible threat of intervention.
  • “[The US] has enough to actually take Venezuela from my perspective.” (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 02:38)
• Ambiguity from Trump
  • Trump refuses to rule out deploying US troops in Venezuela:
    • “No, I don't rule out that. I don't rule out anything. We just have to take care of Venezuela. They dumped.” (Donald Trump, 01:00)
• Contradictory Positions
  • The administration is simultaneously suggesting willingness to negotiate with President Maduro while planning for possible regime change.

2. The Real Motives Behind U.S. Actions

• Migration as a Driver
  • Gonzalez argues much of the escalation is about justifying harsh migration policies using the Alien Enemies Act, rather than legitimate security threats.
    • "This entire deployment is just so that the administration can continue to use the Alien Enemies act to deport Venezuelans without due process." (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 03:52)
• Political Calculus
  • Hardline elements in South Florida’s Venezuelan exile community are pushing US intervention, amplified by Secretary of State Marco Rubio's political ambitions.
    • "Even though Marco Rubio is the Secretary of State, he's fundamentally still a South Florida politician... he's listening primarily to the diaspora community from South Florida that is very much pushing for the United States to get involved." (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 05:42)

3. Regime Change: Narratives and Risks

• Legal Justifications and the Cartel de los Soles
  • The Trump administration labels the Venezuelan government as a cartel for legal and political cover.
    • “Cartel de los Soles is a made up name that refers to elements of the Venezuelan government... They're being described as the largest cartel in the world. That's Sinaloa in Mexico.” (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 07:21)
  • This enables extrajudicial actions and may set precedents for dangerous legal logic both abroad and at home.
• Iraq Syndrome
  • Warnings that US intervention could lead to prolonged chaos, referencing the long US involvement in Iraq.
    • "You start seeing a situation, kind of a break it, you buy it situation where if they don't go in after removing Maduro, the country will descend into chaos." (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 10:53)
  • The hardline “with us or against us” mentality is eliminating serious debate.

4. Congressional and Legal Limits

• War Powers Resolution
  • Recent Senate attempts to require congressional approval failed after the administration claimed it lacked legal justification for land attacks—though this may be a temporary assurance.
    • "If this administration escalates... you may see that that resolution is revived." (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 08:50)
• Domestic Civil Liberties at Risk
  • Designating individuals or organizations as foreign terrorists could enable sweeping actions against Americans, including asset seizure or detention without due process.
    • “If you're designated as an enemy combatant, even if you're an American citizen and you're on U.S. soil, then you're fair game...” (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 09:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jane Coaston’s trademark skepticism:

  • “Fantastic. I love doing war for reasons I don't 100% understand.” (Jane Coaston, 03:11)

• Clarifying the real purpose of military moves:

  • “This is really, it looks, walks and talks like a regime change preparation from my perspective.” (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 07:21)

• Warning on the loss of debate:

  • “There is this mentality right now where if you're not for regime change, then you're a supporter of Maduro. Just like if you were against the Iraq invasion, you were a supporter of Saddam.” (Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, 10:53)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |---------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:02 | Jane’s intro, Trump’s unclear stance on Venezuela | | 01:00 | Trump refuses to rule out US troops in Venezuela | | 02:26 | Interview with Juan Sebastian Gonzalez begins | | 02:38 | Details on the military buildup near Venezuela | | 03:52 | Motives: migration, negotiation ploys, regime change | | 05:42 | South Florida politics and Secretary Marcus Rubio’s role | | 07:21 | Cartel de los Soles designation and its implications | | 08:50 | Senate’s failed bid for War Powers Resolution | | 09:32 | Risk of domestic rights violations | | 10:53 | Historical warning: “break it, you buy it” Iraq parallel | | 11:58 | End of main interview |

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Additional Headlines (Post-main Segment Highlights)

• Trump to Sell F-35 Jets to Saudi Arabia (15:05)
• UN Security Council Approves International Force in Gaza
  • U.S.-led diplomatic win; plans for Palestinian statehood remain contentious (18:01)
• International Student Enrollment in U.S. Drops
  • Trump visa policies impacting universities financially (19:45)
• Trump’s Position on the Epstein Files
  • Calls to release files, blames Democrats, reframes issue away from himself (21:48)

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Tone & Style

The episode features Jane’s blend of incisive questioning and wry humor, with expert but accessible analysis from Gonzalez. The tone is critical of the Trump administration’s foreign and domestic policy maneuvers, with consistent focus on real-world consequences for both US and Venezuelan people.

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Conclusion

This episode dissects the Trump administration’s highly ambiguous, potentially dangerous approach to Venezuela. Through expert commentary, it reveals how migration politics, South Florida exiles, dubious legal justifications, and a lack of realistic planning are driving the US toward possible intervention, with echoes of recent American misadventures abroad. The conversation foregrounds the domestic civil liberties at risk and warns listeners of the cyclical nature of American regime change ambitions.

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For listeners seeking a clear-eyed breakdown of America’s altercations with Venezuela and their entwinement with U.S. domestic politics—and who want more than hype or outrage—this episode delivers.

Transcript

[Jane Coastin]

It's Tuesday, November 18th. I'm Jane Costen, and this is what the show that can't believe President Donald Trump released those files. You know, the ones on Amelia Earhart, the aeronautical hero who disappeared while trying to circumnavigate the world in 1937. Wait, what files did you think I was talking about? On today's show, President Trump is meeting with Saudi Arabia as Crown prince at the White House. And the United Nations Security Council approves Trump's plan for the future of Gaza. But let's start with Venezuela. After weeks of attacks on alleged drug boats off the coast of the South American country, President Trump made his plans for dealing with Venezuela clear on Monday in response to a question in the Oval Office. And by clear, I mean whatever the opposite of clear is. Opaque, I guess.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Is there anything you're ready to rule out at this point? Are you ruling out U.S. troops on the ground?

[Donald Trump]

No, I don't rule out that. I don't rule out anything. We just have to take care of Venezuela. They dumped.

[Jane Coastin]

Sounds like mob talk to me. This came a day after Trump said that he would be willing to hold talks with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. That was the same day that the Navy's largest aircraft carrier arrived in the Caribbean Sea. For reasons, it seems like the Trump administration is trying to have its regime change cake and eat it, too. But why? Well, we've gotten contradictory responses. For example, a Justice Department memo giving approval for the strikes on alleged drug boats argues that the United States is in an armed conflict with narco terrorist drug cartels. The memo uses the White House's own reasoning that cartels are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the United States from drug overdoses. But as the New York Times has repeatedly pointed out, most of those overdoses are from fentanyl, which Venezuela does not produce. And these drug allegations might just be a distraction from the real focus of Trump's Venezuela ire. Over the weekend, Politico published a piece alleging that White House officials have begun planning for a post Maduro Venezuela, including different options for countries to exile him to. So, to talk more about Venezuela, regime change and the perils of war in South America, I spoke with Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, former National Security Council senior director for the Western Hemisphere under President Joe Biden. Juan, welcome to what a day.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coastin]

On Sunday, the US Navy announced that the USS Gerald Ford, which is the world's largest aircraft carrier, has entered the Caribbean Sea. What message is the Trump administration sending with this action?

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Well, with the aircraft, we have gone from a symbolic presence to a credible, I think, threat posture just off of Venezuela's coast. So I think they're upping the ante here. And whereas before you had significant naval assets, in addition to the carrier strike group, they had amphibious readiness group, they had a bunch of destroyers. The F35s are in Puerto Rico. But now they have roughly around 15,000 troops. They have enough to actually take Venezuela from my perspective.

[Jane Coastin]

Fantastic. I love doing war for reasons I don't 100% understand. And that actually gets to something I was curious to hear from you. So the subtext of the last few weeks has been that the US Wants regime change in Venezuela. That's kind of what people have been saying and what we've been hearing. But President Trump told reporters on Monday that he would, quote, probably talk with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro at some point. The same Nicolas Maduro whom this White House has alleged to be basically a narco terrorist. One, what's going on here? And two, what would you expect to see from those talks if they did actually take place?

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Yeah, I mean, well, the existence of a channel for dialogue, I think, is a very good thing, regardless, because when you have that sort of force presence, there is the risk of an accidental confrontation that would catalyze a broader intervention that's incredibly dangerous. But so when I think about what Trump is doing, there's one cynical perspective. The first is that this is all really about migration. This entire deployment is just so that the administration can continue to use the Alien Enemies act to deport Venezuelans without due process.

[Jane Coastin]

Right.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

And right now, the majority of migrants that are getting to third countries are Venezuelans. The other is that this. Is Trump really upping the ante to try to get a better deal from Maduro? Maduro right away agreed to a migration accord and has been very pliant. And so Trump is upping the ante to see if there's more that he can get. Is this actually a regime change operation? I think from Rubio's perspective, it certainly is. And I think that, you know, he has the support of the kind of South Florida diaspora, but the way he's trying to sell it to the rest of the countries by merging the war on terror with the war on drugs, you know, combined with his fascist domestic migration policy, it is all really interlinked.

[Jane Coastin]

Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think that that that South Florida note is really important here, because this is not new for Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He was talking about Maduro as a threat when he was a senator from Florida. And there has been a real relationship between Venezuelan expats in South Florida talking about the need for regime change and kind of building that up as a political force. And can you talk about, like, where is this coming from? How is this happening and what part does Rubio play in it?

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Yeah, I mean, well, look, it's my personal views. Even though Marco Rubio is the Secretary of State, he's fundamentally still a South Florida politician. And so I think he's listening primarily to the diaspora community from South Florida that is very much pushing for the United States to get involved. I think they underestimate, particularly since they're not listening to the intelligence community, they're underestimating the consequences of Maduro's removal. That's just the beginning of a process. And even though you look at the Venezuelan military, they do not have the kind of order of battle to be able to defend against the US assault. So what they're doing is they're posturing toward a guerrilla battle and kind of urban disruption. And that's something where if the US Comes in and there is some sort of removal of Maduro, the idea that you're going to install Edmundo Gonzalez, who won the elections last year overwhelmingly, or Maria Corinna Machado, who is part of the leaders, one of the leaders of the opposition, the idea that they're just going to Govern without significant U.S. troops on the ground really has no bearing on reality. But a lot of this is being pushed primarily by the hard line elements of the opposition. The opposition falls into this broader spectrum where you have some that finding ways to work with the government. There's still pockets of democracy within Venezuela. Mayors and some governors are elected. It's the presidency really, that is really stuck. And they want the US Basically to fix their problem for them.

[Jane Coastin]

Before Trump mentioned those potential talks with Maduro, Secretary of State Rubio tweeted that the State Department is planning to designate the Cartel de los Soles as a foreign terrorist organization. The Trump administration has claimed that Maduro is the head of this cartel. But is this cartel even a real organization? And what is Maduro's actual relationship with it?

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Yeah, it isn't. You know, the designation significantly ups the ante. And by linking Maduro, I think it provides political and legal justification for these extrajudicial killings at sea, but also potentially for action on land. But the Cartel de los Oz, and this is not me, you look at Inside Crime, which is a very respected research institution. You even have the intelligence community, Cartel de los Olis is a made up name that refers to elements of the Venezuelan government, military, politicians that are involved in drug trafficking. That definitely happens. But they're being described as the largest cartel in the world. That's Sinaloa in Mexico. I mean, when you look at the cocaine trade, 95% of the cocaine that comes to the United States comes from Colombia. Five percent of that transits through Venezuela. The, the 75% goes through the Pacific. And so the whole argument that this is a counternarcotics operation is just no bearing on reality. I mean, even just the deployment is a huge kind of over complement to what would be the requirements of a traditional counter narcotics mission. So this is really, it looks, walks and talks like a regime change preparation from my perspective.

[Jane Coastin]

Earlier this month, Senate Republicans voted against legislation that would have required congressional approval for the Trump administration to keep carrying out strikes against Finn Venezuela. Are there any other ways that checks can be placed in the Trump administration's ability to carry out these strikes?

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

You know, if you see the reporting on it was interesting because I think the administration was concerned that they were going to lose that as actually the resolution was going to pass. So Ruby had to go up to the Hill and they had to, according to the press, provide assurances that they did not have the legal justification yet to be able to attack inside of Venezuela. And that's how they actually were able to defuse the passage of this War Powers Resolution. But if this administration escalates by maybe shooting tomahawk on land to particular targets, you may see that that resolution is revived. And it really is key because the President of the United States does not have and should never have this authority to engage in unilateral extrajudicial killings. I think it's important to mention too, that if you look at the UN Charter and international humanitarian law thresholds for the use of force, this does not meet those. It has to be an eminent threat against the United States. And just labeling a gang as a foreign terrorist organization is not a license to kill. What is really alarming is that according to some of the national security lawyers that I've spoken to, is that there are potential domestic implications to this legal justification the administration has. So if you're designated as an enemy combatant, even if you're an American citizen and you're on U.S. soil, then you're fair game to either have your assets seized, to be detained without due process, or even to be killed on U.S. soil. And I think as Americans start to understand that this precedent that the administration is trying to set has Very much direct link to the domestic project of deploying the National Guard, using ICE as a sort of pseudo gestapo to really violate, I think the rights and freedoms of even undocumented, but even US Citizens that are of a certain skin color. I think it should be very alarming to Americans.

[Jane Coastin]

President Trump already tried and failed to force regime change in Venezuela during his first term. You've mentioned concerns about the second order effects which anyone, anyone who remembers the Iraq war will say, yeah, that all makes sense because we were there for 20 years and here we are now. But what are your other concerns if the Trump administration continues to escalate and push for regime change this time around?

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Yeah, I mean, the first thing is that this administration is dealing with a mess of its own creation. So the mismanagement of the economy, the corruption has led to an outflow of Venezuelan migrants. But it wasn't until the administration under Trump won imposed the sectoral sanctions that you see this huge spike in outbound migration and the destabilization, the humanitarian crisis is all now that they're trying to actually deal with a regime change effort. So you're going to start seeing a situation, kind of a break it, you buy it situation where if they don't go in after removing Maduro, the country will descend into chaos. Even though 70% of Venezuelans voted against Maduro. I guess the ingredients exist there for there to be violence. Now if the US Goes in, this is something that's going to happen for the long haul. But it is. I mean, you mentioned Iraq. There is this mentality right now where if you're not for regime change, then you're a supporter of Maduro. Just like if you were against the Iraq invasion, you were a supporter of Saddam and that's unfortunately, I think, eliminating any sort of space for debate.

[Jane Coastin]

Juan, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coastin]

That was my conversation with Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, former National Security Council senior director for the Western Hemisphere under President Biden. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a Day is brought to you by Zbiotics Pre Alcohol. Whether you're raising a glass to your team, winning, catching up with old buddies back in town, or just trying to stay sane with a house full of relatives, how you feel the next morning still matters. That's why I drink pre alcohol Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on working out or even just working without worry. Make the most of every toast, tailgate and touchdown this holiday season. Just don't forget to bring pre alcohol along for the ride. Go to zbiotics.com wad to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use code WAD at checkout. Zebiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com wad and use the code WAD at checkout for 15% off.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

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[Jane Coastin]

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[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

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[Jane Coastin]

Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

Are you Planning to.

[Jane Coastin]

Sell F35s to Saudi Arabia? And also, are you looking at doing a similar security agreement like you did.

[Donald Trump]

With yeah, no, I am planning on doing. They want to buy. You've been a great ally. They've got to like us very much.

[Jane Coastin]

In case you're wondering, Trump said that he lost his voice yelling at quote, stupid people anyway. Trump told reporters Monday that he intends to approve Saudi Arabia's request to buy advanced U S made F35 fighter jets. That's just one item on the agenda when Saudi Arabia's de facto ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, better known as mbs, meets President Trump at the White House today. According to Reuters, Trump intends to strengthen decades old partnerships on oil and security and explore new collaborations in tech, commerce and possibly nuclear energy. It's MBS's first US visit since the 2018 murder of journalist and critic of the crown prince Jamal Khashoggi, a killing US Intelligence says MBS personally sanctioned. But that pesky detail aside, Trump is looking to capitalize on the $600 billion investment pledge Saudi Arabia made during his visit to the kingdom in a trip where he avoided any talk of human rights and is expected to do so again. Shocking A federal magistrate judge said Monday that the criminal case against former FBI Director James Comey may be faltering. Why? Because Lindsey Halligan, the inexperienced prosecutor handpicked by President Trump, made a series of apparent errors before the grand jury. In a lengthy ruling, the judge ordered Halligan to fork over all the grand jury materials used to obtain Comey's indictment. Judge William Fitzpatrick also posited whether, quote, government misconduct in the case merited dismissing it altogether. He even noted that when Halligan appeared alone before the grand jury in September to seek an indictment, she made at least two fundamental and highly prejudicial misstatements of law because of that whole inexperienced prosecutor thing. Fitzpatrick added that the grand jury records she submitted for review appear incomplete. In short, if Halligan offers a masterclass in federal prosecution, do not take it. The decision is the latest hurdle in the effort to prosecute Comey. The case had already been rejected by U.S. attorney Eric Siebert, who said the evidence that Comey lied to and obstructed Congress fell short, prompting Trump to remove him in September and replace him with Halligan. The decision on whether these grand jury errors warrant tossing the case will rest with U.S. district Judge Michael Nakhmanoff, who has already set a hearing for early December to review separate claims from Comey's lawyers that Halligan misused the grand jury process. The result of the voting is as 13 votes in favor, 0 votes against, 2 abstentions. The United Nations Security Council has approved a U.S. plan that authorizes an international stabilization force in Gaza. The resolution was adopted in a 130 vote. Russia and China abstained. And if you're wondering what exactly an international stabilization force will do, here's U.S. ambassador to the UN Mike Waltz.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

The International Stabilization Force will stabilize the security environment, support the demilitarization of Gaza, dismantle terrorist infrastructure, decommission weapons and maintain the safety of Palestinian civilians.

[Jane Coastin]

The vote on Monday was a diplomatic win for the Trump administration and a crucial next step for the fragile ceasefire after two long years of war between Israel and Hamas. It endorses President Trump's 20 point ceasefire plan, which also calls for a group that would lead the transition. Trump wrote on Truth Social that the border peace will, quote, be chaired by me and include the most powerful and respected leaders throughout the world. He said board members would be announced in the coming weeks. During negotiations, the US had revised the resolution to say that after advances in the reconstruction of Gaza and other reforms, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self determination and statehood. But Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Twitter Sunday, our opposition to a Palestinian state in any territory has not changed. International enrollment at U.S. colleges dipped 1% this fall, defying fears of a steep collapse after the Trump administration tightened visa scrutiny and pushed universities to cap foreign student numbers. But when you pop the hood on that 1%, there's some smoke. The number of new first time international students dropped 17%, the sharpest plunge since the COVID 19 pandemic, according to new data from the Institute of international education. That 1% is buoyed by large numbers of international graduates staying in the US for temporary work. Foreign students make up only about 6% of US college enrollment, but they have an outsized financial impact. Most international students pay higher tuition and receive no financial aid, effectively helping subsidize the cost of educating US Students. Their absence is already creating major budget strains at some smaller universities. The Trump administration's visa delays and new enrollment caps have contributed to the slowdown, with students shifting towards schools in Europe and Asia. Which makes sense, as Trump essentially jaunted into every quad in America and hammered in a sign reading International Students not welcome. And that's the news. One more thing. It would take me a very long time to catalog the ways in which the president of the United States is being super weird about convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. From teasing Republican voters with the release of the Epstein client list during his presidential campaign to suddenly deciding that anyone who expressed interest in the, quote, sordid but boring case of a man who accumulated powerful friends and allies and billions of dollars while preying on young women around the world was a bad person. It's been a gross, repulsive journey. And so we Come to Sunday evening. After weeks and weeks of attempting to discourage Republicans from voting for a bill to compel the Department of Justice to release all of files on Jeffrey Epstein, which the President could just do anyway, Trump suddenly changed his mind. He posted on Truth Social, quote, house Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files because we have nothing to hide. And it's time to move on from this Democrat hoax perpetrated by radical left lunatics in order to deflect from the great success of the Republican Party, including our recent victory on the Democrat shutdown. And on Monday, he doubled down in the Oval Office.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

You posted on Truth Social last night, you urged House Republicans to vote in favor of this Epstein release bill they're going to vote on tomorrow. I just want to be super clear on your position. Do you want to see that pass the Senate? Would you sign that bill if it gets to your desk?

[Donald Trump]

I do want to. Here's what I want. We have nothing to do with Epstein. The Democrats do. All of his friends were Democrats. You look at this Reid Hoffman, you look at Larry Summers, Bill Clinton, they went to his island all the time, and many others. They're all Democrats. All I want is, I want for people to recognize a great job that I've done on pricing, on affordability, because we brought prices way down.

[Jane Coastin]

He hasn't, but that's not the point. It's worth noting that it's not clear if the Justice Department will act on this even if the President signs his legislation. Donald Trump has never been accused of wrongdoing in connection with Epstein. But I think I know what's going on here. Trump believes that if Democrats are implicated in the Epstein files, which was why his vice president and FBI director were so gung ho to get them last year, Democrats will obviously just give up on their efforts to get more information about Jeffrey Epstein's crimes because Republicans have pledged their eternal fealty to Donald Trump. I think that Trump thinks that Democrats must have pledged eternal fealty to LinkedIn co founder Reid Hoffman, former President Bill Clinton, and former Harvard University President Lawrence Summers. We have not. I had to Google who Reid Hoffman is. Bill Clinton left the White House when I was 12. And I know Lawrence Summers best for arguing back in 2005 that women were less intelligent than men. I should also note that according to emails released by the House Oversight Committee, he was using Epstein as a, quote, wingman to attempt to pursue a relationship with a woman he was mentoring. He was and is still married. So let's just put a pin in that intelligence argument. For now, if the choice is get no more information or get more information to bring justice to the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's predations. But some Democrats are also implicated. I'm walking through door number two every time. It's an easy choice. Unless you're Donald Trump. Before we go, the holidays are here. Trump's still letting us do those this year. Now is the perfect time to head to the Cricut store and snag gifts for your favorite activists and friends of the pod. We have everything from conversation, starting stocking stuffers to cozy sweatshirts you'll be wearing all winter. And remember, you can always get yourself a gift regardless of what this Santa guy says. I think you've been a very good little podcast listener this year. The last day to purchase to ensure you get your order by Christmas is December 11th for domestic and December 7th for international shipping. So order soon. Head to Cricut.com store to shop. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate the true measure of love and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how FBI Director Kash Patel has given his copy country musician Girlfriend A protective detail made up of elite SWAT officers like me. Water Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coastin and ladies never settle for less than a full protective detail made up of elite SWAT officers. If they wanted to, they would. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Kaitlin Plummer, Tyler Hill and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior vice president of New York and Politics is Adrienne Hill. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

What is the secret to making great toast? Oh, you're just gonna go in with.

[Jane Coastin]

The hard hitting questions.

[Juan Sebastian Gonzalez]

I'm Dan Pashman from the Spork Bowl. We like to say it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. We use food to learn about culture, history and science. There was the time we looked into allegations of discrimination at Bon Appetit or when I spent three years inventing a new pasta shape. It's a complex noodle that you put together every episode of the Sporkful. You're gonna learn something, feel something, and laugh the Spork Pull. Get it Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jane Coastin]

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